2023 Fall Update AV Receiver Processor Testing - What's next? - 10 tested, more coming

[@barbarakelleycasey]

I'm doing my deep dive research on the design of my Home Theater and whole house audio. You are definitely providing excellent insight. I would welcome additional insight with data analysis.

[@christisdale9977]

Thank you Jon for all your videos and valuable information.Based on them I plan on getting the Denon X4800h at the end of the month.

[@ripewave]

I am glad the videos are helping. The X4800 is a good choice as it balances lots of features with out of the box sound quality. -Jon

[@joseloya1274]

Thank you for the video. You're going into the right path to review products!

[@ripewave]

Thanks for the encouragement. I am enjoying the process and discussions with this audience. -Jon

[@Antibackgroundnoise]

If one could have the features, functions and user-friendliness of a Denon and yet still have the sound quality of the Arcam. Well for me that would be the ideal AVR. But being realistic and knowing the more unnecessaries they cram into an AVR chassis. The more the sound quality is likely to diminish. Makes me a little more pragmatic how things really are. Enjoy your videos! You're a true treasure within the AVR community ❤

[@ripewave]

I think there is some merit in your statement. I distill to “with more feature - sound quality degrades.” There are even some features that are not intended to improve sound quality. I also wonder about “amp disconnect mode.” I don’t see that feature on the Yamaha, yet Yamaha is sounding pretty good to me with external amplifiers. That suggests that there may be something wrong with the D&M design that requires that measure while competing models do find without it. It is a shame that issues remain in many products - I would say all I have reviewed have something not right or missing. Atmos, DTS:x pro and Auro-3D aren’t new, IMAX enhanced and HDMI 2.1 isn’t new, big immersive speaker layouts aren’t new, room correction isn’t new - yet 5-10 years later and all these companies are still tinkering to get them all working and perfected. Expecting more maturity at this stage. I what maturity to mean refinement not cost reduction measures. -Jon

[@1Aquadon]

Thanks John!!

[@ripewave]

Glad you enjoyed this content. Thanks for watching. -Jon

[@GaryWalters]

Just wanted to say keep up the good work. I really hope your subscribers go up so the community can count on you for years to come. I just picked up a Yamaha RX-A6A to re[lace my Denon x4500h. My decision was primarily based on your detailed review of the A8A and the Audioholics more technical review. I couldn't be more happy with my decision. Your description of the difference between the Yamaha and the Denon was spot on. I feel like my room got more spacious and my speakers disappeared into the sound. Objects no longer jump from speaker to speaker, but instead go from location to location in the space. One thing you didn't mention is the Yamaha seems to be more dynamic in its presentation too. Thank you again! BTW - Regarding the lack of settings in the app. your right, but I just created an icon to the web page and use that on the phone or tablet. not elegant, but it has all the settings in the receiver and more.

[@ripewave]

I am so pleased that my guidance helped. I think the key was that you knew what you wanted and realized the issues with Denon with object motion and not having enough dynamics. The Denon isn’t bag, but I feel the Yamaha is that much better. Nice work on your part to arrive at a good outcome. Thanks for watching. -Jon

[@ripewave]

Also - I like your web icon workaround.

[@VdomanZ]

Jon...Thanks for the in depth analysis and commentary on the current lineup of receivers! I started looking because I wanted to take advantage of Auro3d for 5.1 content. I've never been super pleased with 3d upmixing from dolby and dts. DTS upmixing is much better, but cuts in and out at odd frequencies and does not sound normal. Coming from Marantz 6013 running a 5.2.4 setup with front/rear heights. After hours of research and watching every video you produced on the Denon 4800, Marantz cinema 40 decided to go with the Denon 4800. I've got the main 5 bed layer hooked up to an external amp in preamp mode. Its nice you can enable/disable amp for each channel, not an all or nothing setting! Sound is fantastic and i love having information heads up on the display, the porthole on my 6013 marantz drove me crazy, had to get the app out to see what was going on. Super coinvent knowing what sound upmix/prototcol is applied while listening. Oh and Auro3d upgrade for 5.1 content is fantastic, makes the front soundstage much larger and immersive!

[@ripewave]

Yes - the Denon and Marantz models benefit from the independent amplifier disconnects for the channels using external amplifiers. The front panel display of the Denon is far more functional. I like that this model has a lot of support built in and is reliable. -Jon

[@ulises3113]

Hello, thank you for your work again. I contacted Onkyo to tell them why dont they include Auro3D in the Onkyo RZ50? It should be.......an maybe a correction for a better sound in stereo mode.

[@ripewave]

Curious what response you will receive from Onkyo. My guess is it is a matter of positioning and driving consumers to pay over $1,100 more for the TX-RX70. -Jon

[@beardenstephen1]

Jon, many thanks for your hard work, it is appreciated! I'm currently heading down the path of replacing my dated but still reliable Yamaha RX-A3040. I've spent many hours of research online & driving out of town to visit retail stores music rooms & listen to what is available now without any real success. It appears the upcomig Denon AVR-X6800 may fit my current needs ... but I will eagerly await your review when it becomes available. It seems there's no perfect AVR on the market "within my budget anyway" that doesn't have some little annoyance/bug or missing feature. I almost pulled the trigger on the Yamaha RX-A8A but it's almost 3 years old from it's announced date & doesn't support IMAX, has a very small display window making it a no go for me, otherwise a nice AVR that has THE SOUND that I love.

[@ripewave]

Your comment “there is no perfect AVR on the market” I feel is the best way to summarize for the state of the market. While I rate the Yamaha as one of the best, it too is missing a few points like the small display. I am hopeful that the Denon AVR-X6800H will be able to get closer to perfect then what I have experienced so far. It is on my list once it becomes available. -Jon

[@cirotube74]

what advice do you have for one of these amplifiers to combine with klipsch only for cinema?

[@ripewave]

Klipsch makes efficient speakers. As they are not difficult to drive, most amplifiers work with them. Focus on low distortion and less on power. -Jon

[@ENGBriseB]

My Denon X2800h DAB black is a great setup. Hopefull getting the SVS Subwoofer soon. Small room 14 by 14 ft does the job well. With LG OLED TV.

[@ripewave]

I think you will find that SVS subwoofer will greatly enhance your experience. Wish you luck with your expanded system. -Jon

[@mattgiunt]

Excited about Sony and Im totally with you on the Yamaha outstanding sound quality.I think the Yamaha surround AI is a game changer and I wonder how it compares with the Sony 360 feature. Problem with sony is all the bug complaints I've been reading since they came out but not every unit has these issues which is frustrating for the consumer. This receiver comparison work you are doing is epic.

[@ripewave]

Yes - on paper, Sony’s 360 technology appears to be the main differentiator. Some will dismiss simply because there is no Auro-3D support that I am aware of. I wonder if their proprietary room calibration software can compete with Dirac and others. While other reviewers don’t mention calibration as a positive, I came into YPAO with the same pre-evaluation knowledge which I dismissed after my own assessment they same could be true here. -Jon

[@WNK1955]

@@ripewave I see your channel hasn't published anything on the somewhat recent new Sony line. I'm eager to see your thoughts on the second-best Sony when possible. The reason the 5000 is on my radar more than the 7000 is--I'm retired. The price difference is so much with the only apparent difference being the rated power (I think?) $$ really does matter 🙂 Also, if you gather any info on issues that have been identified by owners so far. Glad to see your slide on what's up next!

[@ripewave]

I plan to order the Sony this week. I often debate on whether to purchase the the higher or mid-level models in a range. Leaning towards the 7000es here because I want to compare against the best from Yamaha and Onkyo etc. will share what I learn. -Jon

[@mikeschmidt2339]

@@ripewave I wonder about ypao and 360 if there 3d sound effects where the same are the Yamaha built well and trouble free

[@ripewave]

Sony and Yamaha have provided DSP effects in their processors/receivers for decades. They compete with their technologies and a try to best each other. Sony has the newer stuff right now with their 360. Lots of good press so far. Our ears will simply need to judge for ourselves. -Jon

[@cgm246]

Excited to see Audiocontrol units come through...they seem to be horribly underrated...

[@ripewave]

My guess that the Audio Control models are better then the Arcam models they are derived from - just a guess. -Jon

[@hometheateraddict9583]

How reliable has your rmc 1 been. Ive been debating on going rmc1-l ,avm 70 or the htp1 i keep going back and fourth mainly between the rmc 1 and the avm 70. Also what did you think of the sound between the 2 of them.

[@ripewave]

My RMC-1 has been reliable. Occasionally I need to restart if I have been doing a lot of testing of other AV Processors/Receivers. The HDMI can get confused if the TV is not connected, then reconnected. Otherwise, it has been great. I would avoid the Anthem AVM 70. My issue aside, their product support is not great and they want to help entirely via email with no one you can call directly on the phone. Several days between email responses. Missing features like DSD support is a miss. I did like the Monoprice HTP-1. It supports Auro-3D which the other two do not and has DSD support. My big issue was with AnthemARC Genesis. While the issues I had with it only impact a small number of customers (as I understand), it produces too loud of a calibration signal and blew my speakers. Dirac is much better to navigate and has better results. Jon

[@percybedford6266]

@@ripewave how would you rate the sound/audio of the Emotiva, Marantz, and the Monoprice? I am looking to upgrade from my XMC 1 in my theater? Thanks again for your help.

[@robg8963]

Excited for your Sony review

[@ripewave]

It’s a long one - 8 parts. -Jon

[@donjaun540]

I like what you are doing and liked and subscribed. 👍 I'll have to look up some of the AVR you have looked at to see how you felt about them. Thank you

[@ripewave]

Thanks for subscribing. Glad you are finding the content valuable. I am here if you have questions or have details I missed which helps this group better understand a product or technology. I look forward to your posts. -Jon

[@randolphblack2554]

I am a big fan of Yamaha and still have not found it demonstrate that it has the features or double the power of my Aventage A760 that I purchased new in 2016. I might go for an Aventage 3080

[@ripewave]

I haven’t run a comparison against the A760. However, you are wise to know the differences before replacing with a new model. It would be disappointing if it fell short of your current receiver. -Jon

[@12stormv]

Hi Jon! I live in Brazil and, here, the x3800h costs U$1,583, the x4800h costs U$2,222 and the TX-RZ50 costs U$2,040. I'm in doubt about which one to buy to replace my VSX-933. My cash limit is $2,400. I have the possibility of buying a used Cambridge 840W for US$800 and connecting it to the x3800h. Do you consider it more interesting compared to buying the x4800h? What do you think of the value of the TX-RZ50 here? My speaker system is 5.1 (Polk tsi 300 towers, cs10 central, fxi-a4 surrounds and an 8" aat subwoofer) I intend to add 2 or 4 atmos speakers. Thanks for the help!

[@ripewave]

I think it comes down to the features that are important to you. The Onkyo TX-RZ50 is a great value, sounds similar to Denon X4800H, but for less money. Just missing a few features like Auro-3D. -Jon

[@12stormv]

Here in Brazil, the Onkyo TX-RZ50 costs US$200 less than the Denis X4800H. Given this small difference, which one would you recommend? Thank you very much for your reviews and comments.

[@cgm246]

NAD units are quickly falling behind for the costs.....any idea if they plan to update them? they are modular....

[@ripewave]

I haven’t heard of NAD introducing a new model - but they are due. While NAD AV Receivers have some modular capabilities, that capability doesn’t mean much if they are too slow to release new modules. -Jon

[@ulises3113]

Hello Thank you again for your work and for sharing with us. your work enormously helps people to understand, to choose well and above all you save a lot of time for others, time that you sacrifice for others, thank you again from France and Spain. In this video you talk about a good home theater amplifier and that's an unusual thing. Many of these amps exceed €3000. What would you do if you could have a Marantz cinema 40 for the price of an onkyo RZ50, 1400€? I have an Onkyo RZ50 but I'm tempted to use this Marantz Cinema 40 for testing. What I like about the RZ50 is the impact of the sound and its spatialization.

[@paradoxicalcat7173]

I think you need to spend some time looking at the audio amplifiers of these products. e.g. Marantz Cinema 50 has their custom HDAM amplifier, but the Cinema 60 and 70s do not. How different does the 50 sound vs. the 60? Sure, number of channels is important, but it isn't the only thing going on. Not many reviewers seem to want to dig into this at all.

[@krogers17]

Is there a reason you would not be reviewing IOTAVX AVX17? While not HDMI 2.1 it covers alot of the other bases for a really great price.

[@ripewave]

I suspect that the IOTAVX AVX17 is based on the same platform as the Emotiva MC1, but with more channels. If I find the Emotiva to be good, I would then be curious how different the IOTAVX version is. So yes, I may consider that mode as well. I just what to make sure I can return. I am only aware of one retailer that supports for North American market. -Jon

[@cgm246]

Cost is crazy but the Primare SPA25….ever thought of running this one….?

[@ripewave]

I need to investigate the new Primare SPA25. I had Primare only in my amplifier reviews to date. Time to expand to see how they are approaching the processor market with this introductory offering. -Jon

[@roco9504]

I’m keeping my Pioneer LX901 until a good class D option releases 😤😔 As you mentioned, it’s sometimes about features and for me there’s only 2 that are musts- Class D & Gaming friendly. Dirac would be a plus since I’m curious with all the love it’s been getting but the other 2 matter more. I think there’s only class D are NAD 778 & McIntosh MHT300 but neither seem good for supporting gaming features. So my situation sucks.

[@ripewave]

I am trying to understand why there hasn’t been more adoption of class D for AV Receivers. It seems like an ideal application where you want to pack in a lot of amplifier channels but don’t want to generate a lot of heat and need to drive with a single power supply. My guess is that the class D amps that have solved the limitations normally associated with that design are from third parties. Companies like Harman, Pioneer/Onkyo and Denon/Marantz own their class AB technology and don’t have to outsource those. To avoid the risk of giving up margins, they are staying with class AB. I believe their decision is based on profits. -Jon

[@roco9504]

@@ripewave that makes sense. It’s true though class D especially with 9+ channels would be good move to optimize max watts per channel limitations of an outlet. Plus it’s efficiency & cool running yup yup it’s as you say. It’s a darn shame too since Pioneer & Onkyo used to implement them. I don’t want to go separates but, if by the end of the winter there isn’t any news on a class D AVR thennn I’ll suck it up & go separates (Marantz 7706 + buckeye or monoprice amp idk which yet) Thanks for the reply btw!

[@dvdenis]

Have you seen that procella has a receiver in the works

[@ripewave]

I heard something about that, but not much. Looking forward to more details. Curious if they are developing 100% inhouse, our outsourcing. Typically companies will partner if they are entering the processor/receiver market. (Similar to Monoprice with ATI). These are complex devices to develop and it helps to have experience and a base system to start with. -Jon

[@dean6312]

Please do the Sony STR-AZ5000ES. I bought one for $1600 and love it so far. I've had Sony receivers for over 20 years. I like the sound of the Sony.

[@ripewave]

I have the Sony STR-AZ7000ES in house now and should be posting the first video of the series within a day. I am covering details of the STR-AZ5000ES as well, but felt the 7000 was only different in power supply and channel count so I went that direction. -Jon

[@dean6312]

I'm watching your video now on the7000es. Thank you Jon.

[@jonhezequiel]

Test the NAD T778!

[@ripewave]

While the NAD is behind on features, I am curious about their sound quality. -Jon

[@michaelstephens41]

Imax inhanced would be nice to review.

[@ripewave]

I need to upgrade my TV and test facilities to do that justice. Good suggestion - always more to invest in to support. I’ll keep at it. -Jon

[@borlach321]

The Denon 6800 looks promising.

[@Antibackgroundnoise]

Maybe for functions, features and user friendliness but certainly not a sound quality.

[@ripewave]

When I am able to review I will be assessing to determine if the X6800 sounds better then the X4800 which I placed in tier 2. If better, is it enough to raise to tier 1? I feel a listening test is the only way. From a feature perspective, I like this balance better for those looking to experience the full set of immersive formats and upmixers. -Jon

[@mikeschmidt2339]

How is Yamaha sound music movies vs cinema 50 rz50 3800 h had to return my rz50 WiFi’s drop out in unit error 64

[@ripewave]

With both in my system at the same time I found myself wanting to use the Yamaha instead of the Cinema 50. So yes, the Yamaha I found to be noticeably better. Sorry to hear about your RZ50 issue. Was that recent? I understand the early production units had more problems. -Jon

[@mikeschmidt2339]

@@ripewave yes last 70 days

[@mikeschmidt2339]

Thanks I did like the rz50 these are hard to pick out

[@mikeschmidt2339]

I had a sr5008 and liked it if Yamaha is better that’s interesting? Thanks for answering I listen to ur show at work

[@ripewave]

Happy to talk through with you. Thanks for listening. -Jon

[@make725daily1]

I'm genuinely impressed by your video! ♦ "Success unfolds as an enduring and evolving adventure."

[@ripewave]

Thank you! 😃

[@kevinhoronzy6011]

Need a z-axis.. such as how realistic is the movie experience. Like pick a reference movie such as gravity atmos to use between units for z-axis comparision. What does rich mean on y-axis.

[@ripewave]

I will admit the graph is subjective. The y-axis (rich/thin) is intended to represent the quality of the sound as having full dynamics - not dull or compressed sounding. I find models that handle bass well perform highest on the y axis. -Jon

[@MikeS-y2i]

Love your test, but some receivers are missing, where are the Anthem MRX 740, 1140 and Arcam AVR 11, 21? I know it takes time to test but I was wondering why they are not on your list. Otherwise your information is gold. Thanks

[@ripewave]

For Arcam and Anthem I started with their AV Processors - the AV41 and AVM 70 8K. My thought is the less expensive models will be mostly subsets of those models - albeit some with amplifiers built in. It will be good to conduct a second pass at some point to compare like I am doing within the Denon and Marantz ranges. However, I need to resolve with Anthem the issues I had with Anthem ARC Genesis before I evaluate another Anthem product as that tool damaged my speakers and Anthem providing almost no support. Arcam was a better experience, but still I had some hum issues which were not explained. I need to circle back with both, but will give them a little time to resolve and me more time to explore other brands for the first time like Sony. -Jon

[@MikeS-y2i]

@@ripewave no worries, thank you for sharing

[@ripewave]

Still good suggestions - thanks for the recommendations. I would like to resolve the issues I had with each. It would be so nice to revisit without those distractions. -Jon

[@HiFinest343]

@ripewave did you ever determine the root cause of ARC blowing that tweeter? I had a similar issue with Audyssey and a Monoblock amp I’m using for my center channel. The impulse volume during the calibration was way too high and there’s no way to turn it down. Audyssey ended with -10.5dB for my center channel, while the mains were set to -0.5dB. The center channel wasn’t damaged but I can see how auto calibration could have damaged a lesser speaker during the impulse measurements. Thoughts?

[@ripewave]

Never did. Anthem said they handed to engineering but I have not received any further information from them. I have since repaired the speakers and tested with nine other AV Processors and Receivers and all others had such an issue with calibration or even close. Seems to be only with Anthem ARC Genesis. Could it be a defective unit? Maybe. -Jon

[@donjaun540]

I forgot to add something I don't see anyone doing yet. Do you test the power output of the AVRs❓ All channels driven etc. In car stereo they test multi channel amplifiers at different ohm levels and how much power you really get at a specific ohm. Can the AVR handle lower ohm levels and mixed ohm impedance speakers ❓ I hope if you can do this if you already don't.

[@ripewave]

I don't perform output testing as I do not have the professional tools to conduct a proper test. I wish I did so I could provide that valuable set of details. -Jon

[@donjaun540]

@@ripewave I wish you could get together with Wilson Audio Labs Big D as he has tested AVRs before. Thank you. Look forward to seeing your awesome channel. 👍😎

[@UnitedRedDevil13]

So you’re saying my x3800 is a dud? 😩😂

[@ripewave]

No - I feel that the x3800 and equivalent Marantz Cinema 50 can sound good. There are just higher tiers of products that sound better out of the box. Out of the box, I will say, the x3800 and Cinema 50 sound dull with not much bass. I recommend using Dirac Live over the built-in Audyssey calibration for much better results. Manual calibration by someone who is skilled can take the output even higher. -Jon

[@UnitedRedDevil13]

@@ripewave ok cool. I have been meaning to buy the Dirac license but I’m a bit intimidated. I do already own a umik-1 though. I probably should just do it.

[@ripewave]

I think you will be pleased with the results and the process isn’t that bad. I recommend running the process several times. With a little practice you get the hang of it and results can get better. -Jon

[@cgm246]

Emotiva MR1L!?!?>>>>

[@ripewave]

It will be the MR1 or MR1L