2024 Box Office - Joker 2 Opening Weekend DISASTER $39 $40 Million

[@bjanderson_09]

I think the conversation needs to be that Todd Phillips directed a bad movie and the studio allowed him. No one has said anything negative about the performances and that should be noted!

[@jturner2577]

Agreed this is a Game of Thrones Season 8 scenario. The performances, costumes, designs, settings aren't the problem.

[@Shapar95]

Performances are terrible because they were singing and singing is not a realistic performance. So they bear responsibility as well.

[@danjoshdp6257]

​@Shapar95 uhhh what?

[@bloodcottoncandy]

This. Gaga's acting got so much better than when she was on A Star Is Born. But the idea for it to be a karaoke musical was so stupid.

[@locutus1126]

I was surprised Todd Phillips made a good Joker movie to begin with. He got lucky but this movie was his career killer and the real Todd Phillips stepped forward

[@mrmackay8353]

Joker 2 would have made another billion if it had been Joker and Harley Quinn painting the town red and causing chaos, a modern day Bonnie and Clyde story with a messed up/toxic love story. Instead we got this mess.

[@wordsinahandle]

I would love to have seen how he seduced his psychiatrist in quinn and maybe if todd and phoenix wanted to go dark they could've shown how all the carnage left behind by joker affected others and him too

[@mrmackay8353]

@@wordsinahandle it would have been amazing tbh. But they went a different route to what people expected and that’s the reason it is getting hated so much

[@wordsinahandle]

@@mrmackay8353 in the end we're all fans like Harley albeit well intentioned

[@erskine1984]

Can't believe they didn't do test screenings for Joker 2. That in itself is just unforgivable for a movie with such a budget

[@jturner2577]

Test Screenings were badly needed.

[@sangaman2007]

They didn't screen test joker 2019, likely because they didn't believe in it due to the budget being so low. This time, they didn't screen test it because they thought they had a sure thing in Todd Phillips

[@mabusestestament]

Philips and Phoenix probably only wanted to do it if they could make what they wanted to make, with no test screenings and stuff.

[@32roho]

I can’t believe they make ANY movie without test screenings.

[@originaldelta]

Woukdnt have made a difference,the Marvels had test screenings and still lost more money

[@brianh3253]

I thought Patty Jenkins was a creative genius after I saw Wonder Woman. Then I saw WE84 and found out she had a lot of help on the first one.

[@sophiarose5879]

Yup 😭😭

[@pb.j.1753]

What kind of help? Hated the sequel too

[@brianh3253]

@@pb.j.1753 Zack Snyder’s team.

[@A7ZZZ7]

I blame Geoff Johns for leading her astray. Like, you want a good Cheetah? Why not use the REBIRTH material? The dynamic between them there was so interesting! And why have Maxwell Lord here as well? I think the movie would benefit from more time to develop the villain story. And last, but not least, why have Steve back after he ended up in such a high note? It cheapened his sacrifice. IMO if they wanted to bring him back they should make a movie with Hades as the big bad and Diana going after Steve in the underworld.

[@NotAToxicGuy-9]

"Hiring people that are not fans of the material in the first place" - I totally agree Grace 👍

[@marwynthemasterful6369]

@@NotAToxicGuy-9 In the same breath she’ll say we need more women to direct superhero movies etc when they are not really who is the fandom or the target audience as seen by the 70%+ male demo even for female led comic book films. There are men and women who use this jobs as mere stepping stones, the same way a college football coach uses a small school to get a better deal at a larger school in 2-3 years. They PRETEND to care, then change everything.

[@ichigen511]

Yet the first Joker made a billion dollars. This simple idea that you have doesn't guarantee a damn thing. That's the problem.

[@originaldelta]

Nature is healing 😮

[@philharrison2991]

Fans can make a horrible movie. Non fans can also make a good movie. Funny how this world works.

[@sandal_thong]

@@marwynthemasterful6369 No, in the same breath she said they needed a woman on set to look out for Lady Gaga, her character and its impact on the movie.

[@mattlopez6696]

When Madme Web has a better cinema score than Joker 2 that's bad

[@mikec4931]

Deserved. Madame Web was enjoyable, at least.

[@mavis5954]

Well at least madame web was entertaining. A bad movie but entertaining. Joker 2 on the other hand 😅

[@Emanthebald]

Madame Web deserves a better score than Joker 2

[@treblelatrice926]

Sheesh...😮

[@dafttool]

I heard a reviewer that saw Joker 2 in Venice said that in the movie when Joker tells Harley Quinn to stop singing, people in the audience cheered. Yikes 😬 The reviewer said that the impression he got was that applause wasn’t just for her to stop singing, but all singing to stop.

[@abysmalreign2207]

I saw it Thursday and my theatre clapped at that line too. I'd say the line was meta, but with how messy the film is, I doubt it was intentional

[@gusztavkosa4065]

which was the whole point of course,

[@Jbreezzyyy]

So this fabled Gaga cut would have how much more singing? 😂😂😂

[@HaroldDominguezhn]

How many Joker fans are Lady Gaga fans? I know I'm not

[@curtiszyr]

@@abysmalreign2207 it was intentional . This movie is very intentional in undoing everything the first movie did. Maybe we should’ve riot against the establishment after the first movie lol

[@fffan11]

I don't see Gaga addressing her character being cut, I feel like she is too gracious to even indirectly throw anyone under the bus, and I believe she has already moved on in a way. She is about to release the first single of her next album just as she reached 100 million monthly listeners on Spotify and has had the number one song in the world with Bruno Mars for 5 weeks. As for her taking a break, she's only been in 1 movie every three years so far, so maybe she should just stick to this pattern.

[@ms.carriage6867]

she really is aping Madonnas career.

[@louisgelvezon9530]

@@ms.carriage6867how? When she already has Oscars under her name

[@spilledbeans7000]

@@ms.carriage6867she ended Madonnas career

[@pennydreadful5163]

@@spilledbeans7000keep dreaming

[@TheMeanArena]

Can you explain "her character being cut"?

[@TheDisruptiveOne]

Warner Bros deserves heat for letting the budget get so out of control. This is the same studio that was bragging about reducing the Beetlejuice budget. You can't take your victory lap in that instance and not line up for your L here.

[@jturner2577]

Exactly, Beetlejuice Beetlejuice might actually make more than Joker Folie a Duex at this point.

[@BluePrada]

Why would you care about the budget more than the film being bad? Like as an audience member what’s it to you how much it cost? Is it good or bad is what’s gonna bring people in.

[@richierich7229]

The first Joker made a billion dollars. The first Beetlejuice didn't even make $100 million. It makes sense why they gave one a blank cheque and they tried to control the budget of the latter.

[@donjohnson2758]

2:26 Jokeropolis is a joke. They’re making fun of the fact both are flops.

[@robw6592]

Grace. Respectfully, we are not coming off of The Marvels. We are coming off of Deadpool and Wolverine; another R-rated film btw.

[@philstrouble2284]

Thank you marvel has nothing to do with this 😂

[@sandal_thong]

I kind of saw her point, but I would have said, _"Madam Web"_ or if you needed a DC movie, _The Flash,_ though _Aquaman 2_ was probably DC/WB's latest.

[@marciusnhasty]

Captain Marvel made a billion, so did Joker. Marvels was Captain Marvel 2 in a sense.

[@sandal_thong]

@@marciusnhasty Right. The point is not what is the latest movie, but how a billion dollar movie was followed up by a flop: _Rise of Skywalker_ to _Solo;_ _Captain Marvel_ to _The Marvels;_ _Joker_ to _Joker: Folie à Deux._ Each franchise had its own creative team which may have largely continued from one movie to its sequel. _Wonder Woman_ to _Wonder Woman 1984._ The first didn't make a billion, but it's sequel bombed. As Grace said, these movies are too expensive to only be liked by 5 people (or as I say, 5% of people).

[@TropicThunder54]

The actors of joker 2 are not the problem. The way joker 2 was filmed was not the problem. The creative musical and the storyline ruined the movie.

[@fred-s7e]

Nah lady Gaga is not a box office draw as a female lead. That’s obvious, she isn’t going to draw much of the shallow male audience like Margot did with her beauty. You need that in a Harley Quinn character plus someone that looks relatively young unlike lady Gaga does nowadays even though she is still drastically younger than Joaquin pheonix is

[@Gypsy-c3r]

@@fred-s7e lady Gaga is beautiful! What are you even saying? She’s a huge pop star, not only that she’s proven that she’s a great actress. The problem isn’t the acting in the movie it’s the writing and the fact it’s a musical and wasn’t executed well.

[@daveclark8337]

Lady Gaga in a DC movie was a huge problem...obviously. Ditto for putting Anya-Taylor Joy in Mad Max.

[@Davidflynn99]

41 minutes ohh we’re getting fed

[@FKA_Skull]

Who is to blame? Whomever decided this would be a musical. Who else is to blame? Whomever thought Joker needed a sequel.

[@jabezcreed]

I said on day one it didn't need a sequel, but all these people were like "but look at the money..." Look at all the money...

[@lamar310]

Thank you...a musical instantly ruined this sequel. The audience votes with their wallets

[@sandal_thong]

Where was the fandom, toxic or otherwise to say "NO MUSICAL JOKER!" eh?

[@user-td6fq7or8d]

@@jabezcreed come on! With all the money it made, of course there would be a sequel. They could of at least made a good one!

[@piotrjeske4599]

Musical parts is like problem number 10th , the movie has.

[@kacornish1]

This flop is exactly what they deserve. Their goal was to undermine the story they told in the first movie because they didn’t like the “narrative”. Then they made the stupid decision to make it a musical. They earned this disaster…

[@2Dman533]

@@lawncrew9886 Todd Phillips is that you?

[@thisisnotbilly2189]

let me guess... you didnt see the film

[@2Dman533]

@@lawncrew9886 But Todd. You're my dad.😟

[@garydodd2837]

Makes no sense to me at all..if this was the opinion of Todd Philips in feeling bitter on how people accepted the first movie then why let him make this..what are WB doing..

[@VitorHugoOliveiraSousa]

​@@garydodd2837they did the same thing with Matrix Resurrection, it's not surprisingly. The executives probably hate the audience as much or more than the talent.

[@Thedarkknight2244]

Grace don’t talk about another cut of the film when it’s 2.5 hours where nothing happens

[@usamamasood6371]

Another cut doesn't mean that theres more hours to add It means that whatever was cut could've been added to a different version

[@MaximeBrunet_]

I brought a guy to see Joker 2 as a date and he enjoyed the movie. As a Lady Gaga fan, I was so insulted that they promoted the film with unused footage. I’m a musical theater performer and I hated the musical parts. This is not a good movie and not a good musical.

[@Dularr]

I really would like to see the Lady Gaga cut.

[@jturner2577]

How would you have written/directed Joker 2?

[@MaximeBrunet_]

@@Dularr I either want a refund or for them to release the Gaga cut

[@MaximeBrunet_]

@@jturner2577 I would’ve made a Chicago type movie with big musical numbers

[@BraidyBrown]

Well, atleast ur date enjoyed it 👍🏼

[@akikolehmainen88]

Subverting expectations has replaced surpassing expectations as an excuse to keep the bar lower. Audiences are just not buying into that.

[@abhikmoj5853]

Couldn't have said it better!

[@cheaphomemademoives]

so the artis can't even make what they want they got to ask YOU now? really!! wow go read a comic if you want you expectation met! thats why there cheap! or for that matter surpass! your sorry excuse for expectations!

[@calebwany8422]

Keeping the bar lower is tight!

[@Blazecap]

@@calebwany8422 wow wow wow

[@WilliamLamont82]

Why would any DC fan watch Joker 2 when there's a new episode of The Penguin tonight?😂

[@gohanson27]

Well as a DC fan I knew that this Joker wasn't comic book Joker. In the first film they made it clear as day. Not sure what folks was expecting

[@chakkra69]

@@gohanson27 Maybe that is exactly the reason so few people are going to watch it?

[@ShelDmello]

Thats not the problem with the second film for most people​@@gohanson27

[@garydodd2837]

😂😂

[@BraveToyReviews]

🤣🤣🤣

[@taylorhardaway8031]

James Gunn might be glad Joker 2 flopped, that means Phillips is out of his space.

[@VidtopiaEntertainment]

Fun fact: Joker 2 is not co produced by Village Roadshow Pictures who co produced the first one, and also didn’t work on Furiosa A Mad Max Saga even though they were originally going to. Now many people might say this is because of the lawsuit they filed against WB for the HBO Max date and date fiasco, but I’d like to believe that after The Matrix Resurrections Village Roadshow are now more choosy on which sequels they will produce. Case in point they produced Wonka a really good movie, but didn’t produce Furiosa and Joker 2 which shows that they saw the warning signs and knew they were not gonna be good and disassociated with them and they definitely made the right call. The same thing happened with Jurassic World Dominion with Legendary not being involved, cause when they saw Fallen Kingdom’s critic/audience reception they jumped ship from Dominion. Let this be a tip to audiences if a production company who have been around since the first installment in a franchise aren’t involved in a future entry of said franchise then that’s a hint that the movie might be terrible.

[@sandplasma]

Great insight!

[@jonathancurran5366]

Are village roadshow bankrupt?

[@VidtopiaEntertainment]

⁠@@sandplasma Thanks and to back up my theory more they are still producing movies with WB with the aforementioned Wonka, and are involved with San Andreas 2, Sherlock Holmes 3, Ready Player Two, a Stephen King adaptation, and I Am Legend 2.

[@VidtopiaEntertainment]

@@jonathancurran5366 Nope they are still around producing again Wonka and the future films I just mentioned, but also are making movies for Tubi.

[@edgarmoran5203]

Great inside ! Not sure much of the general audience look for that sort of information though

[@jimsteinmanfan80]

I liked the caption "How Hollywood is battling fans", that is the biggest problem. In the 20th century the last thing Hollywood wanted to do was battling fans so they simply didn't. They rather made lots and lots of money so the culture war could really get of the ground. Now they have chosen a side and it is not the side of the majority of the audience.

[@SomeBsMovie]

Someone mentioned this, but I do feel like part of why movies cost so much these days is because they stopped investing so much in pre-production for these massive projects.

[@kane99560]

They just couldn't leave Joker alone as a classic stand-alone. They had to force this turd on us 🙄

[@calebwany8422]

Milking is constant

[@yashkaushik6540]

Tbh, Joker 2 dug its own grave.. still it is sad to see because we fans were so excited with the trailers.

[@jturner2577]

It's very sad to see. 😢

[@samanthamaclean1430]

Yeah, totally it’s very disappointing

[@MinosML]

Since the moment it was announced it was a musical a lot of us tuned out instantly tbf

[@nms7872]

the morbius comparison is just game over for Joker 2. something has fucked up horribly when a Joker sequel is pulling morbius business at the domestic box office

[@JoeyAustin-ul1qb]

Morbius was actually a good movie for its source material. It is impossible to make a "great" Morbius movie because of the Morbius character itself.

[@ChrisHodgsonCorben-Dallas]

Comparing Joker 2 to Morbius is incredibly unfair IMHO. Morbius is a bad but fun movie. Joker 2 is 2.5 hours of indulgent misery wreathed in awful songs and cigarette smoke

[@snxwy3634]

my brother who is a huge batman fan (anything batman) told me he didn’t want to see this one because he heard it was a musical. I remember being sad bc we have a tradition of seeing dc movies together

[@sandal_thong]

A musical Joker movie sounds like something from an animated episode of Harley Quinn. A half-hour experiment there wouldn't destroy the franchise or break the bank.

[@artroco3438]

As a big fan myself, it is better not to go see it then to go to theatres and leave incredibly disappointed. I waited years for this movie & couldn’t believe what I was seeing. It was that bad.

[@sandal_thong]

@@artroco3438 Summer of '87 my parents and I wanted to see a movie on vacation. They dropped me off at a theater so I could see _Superman IV_ and I was terribly disappointed. They actually went to another theater because they didn't want to see the other movie playing there. So I had to wait a long time for them to come pick me up after.

[@Darylchurch]

Hollywood needs to stop treating “fan service” like a dirty word, give the people what they want.

[@rjackson2569]

Because they are smarter than us and will give us what they think we need.

[@juniorjames7076]

Dont you guys get that this was an ART film, in the same category as Megalopolis? I'm the biggest comic nerd as they come, but I knew with 3 minutes that this was NOT A COMIC BOOK MOVIE. This film is a study in madness, psychopathy, narcissism and the breakdown of our society where only music offers succor. To go into viewing this film as anything else is really delusional. We are in the post-superhero film era, and I'm kinda enjoying it the same way Western were broken down and re-interpreted in the late 1960s.

[@MF-ig1rp]

@@rjackson2569 Maybe its not abput "you" when they make a movie. Fans don't own an IP and hopefully Hollywood learns it better not to serve a movie to an audience but follow an original idea.

[@ysxwadyx]

​@@juniorjames7076 I think the issue is that they used a comic books character that has a huge fanbase to base their artsy film on it. It's not just a risky move, it's a self-destructive move. Imo.

[@JosephManning-xz6lx]

I feel like the subverting expectations would have worked if like the movie was good..... Nobody realized you actually have to execute the creative risks of making it a musical, or a genre courtroom movie in order for that risk to actually be worth it.

[@jturner2577]

Had Lee and Arthur truly shared the same delusions, then the Musical angle could have worked.

[@1934jackson]

Like the corporate world, Hollywood is out of touch. They make stuff that they like, but they're not the audience and not the ones spending the money.

[@shawnbennet432]

The ones spending the money..don't know shot about real art.

[@alexdean9287]

to say they arent spending money is insane when 200m was spent on this movie

[@sandal_thong]

@@alexdean9287 Just think of all the comic book movies that could have been made with $200M. They could have made 4 gritty movies like _Joker_ for instance, or one or two really flashy (no pun intended) feel-good superhero movies.

[@althyk]

Joker 2 is like why... why...? movies are for whom? Audience or Producers?

[@dcmastermindfirst9418]

I saw it and liked it. The musical aspects were the best part.

[@deshaunharris9810]

Grace went off in the best way possible! What a great episode of Movie Math

[@benteunostories]

The Joker is meant to be the ultimate villain for Batman, just as Black Adam is for Shazam. There’s no need to push for these characters to become the heroes of their own stories. One origin story is enough; what we really want to see is the epic battles between Batman and the Joker. Let’s focus on their dynamic and celebrate the villainy that makes these characters iconic!

[@dcmastermindfirst9418]

They certainly didn't push for Joker to be a hero.

[@PanelHopper]

Particularly when it comes at the expense of creating that minority of “the joker tells my story” bros

[@DoratTheKiller]

​@@PanelHopper Indeed

[@One.Zero.One101]

But studios are on the hunt for more content so everybody's gonna get a solo movie whether they deserve to or not.

[@isaacgoff8660]

In my opinion Gaga’s next step should be either an hbo series, a true supporting roll or the lead in a less lavish and expensive movie.

[@spacewinter]

She was amazing in American Horror Story

[@robfuzz]

yes

[@niallnochill]

The lucky thing for Gaga is she will always have her music to fall back on. Her next album coming out early 2025 means she can keep going strong!!

[@dafttool]

Plus, I think she has a tour planned to support the new album, & of course touring is where the money is in the music industry these days for the artists

[@lukasky03]

The music isn’t enough for her. She desperately wants to win an Oscar.

[@Zethonring23]

Her music career is pretty much finished, 13 years ago she was the biggest name in music now she's basically a non-entity, that's why she pivoted to acting. But she's such a big name that there will always be some interest in her at least

[@aarondoherty8762]

@@lukasky03she has an Oscar. Albeit for a music category but hey counts towards an EGOT haha

[@MD19853]

Her album will flop

[@mikemartell365]

I asked a friend who went to see Joker 2 what he thought, and his response was “wait for VHS!” Wow!!! 😂

[@katen5598]

That unprecedented D cinema score for a comic book movie!! What an accomplishment. Not the kind of record breaking WB wanted. Lol.

[@sandal_thong]

Just heard him say five years ago that the first _Joker_ was inmates running the asylum and how they pulled a heist on WB to make the movie they wanted without supervision or control. But it worked and made everyone money. The next time, they really did take WB to the bank and gave them nothing in return.

[@BusterBarnes]

This is why I'm glad we now have DC Studios

[@jturner2577]

Joker Folie a Duex feels like a regression in the areas that mater most which is writing, storytelling and world building. And it also feels like it has contempt for the source material. Don't even get me started on how the title winds up meaning nothing because there are no real shared delusions between Arthur and Lee.

[@sonicsnake44]

YEP

[@bloodcottoncandy]

They could have been such an important movie about disability awareness. I hate the director for not seeing how important this movie could have been to everyone.

[@jabezcreed]

Did you watch the first movie? Can you call that world building or a faithful adaptation? What comic books or comic characters were represented there? The guy's name is Arthur Fleck to be an Afleck joke. The first movie was literally a joke. And number 2 is a joke.

[@bloodcottoncandy]

@@jabezcreed It's not a superhero iteration. It's real world noir. It's taking liberties. Very much like suicide squad.

[@sandal_thong]

Todd Phillips was talking about his idea to make an entire division of rated-R movies like _Joker_ where each character is broken down (deconstructed) in the "real world" without superhero battles and the like.

[@mechasentai]

People are arriving at the realization that online comments don't really reflect how most people feel. This is true of pretty much most subjects, not just movies. But yes, absolutely for movies.

[@Rod-w1x]

When you make something so unrecognizable from the source material, don’t be surprised. People don’t recognize it.

[@Viper3220]

I have trouble figuring out what evidence led them to believe that the same audience that enjoyed Joker 1 would also enjoy a musical.

[@iocomposer]

I'm really curious why Grace refuses to acknowledge The Wild Robot. It's a great film. Highest rated of the year, will likley win the animated Oscar and doing well at the box office. She's very obviously ignoring it for some reason. I wonder why.

[@stevebc957]

Did Chris Pratt read the book to his children, that would be enough to turn her against the movie. 🤣😂

[@mikec4931]

It is a great film. Everyone should ignore joker and see that

[@LetsSpar]

Classic Animated Film

[@nitinmathew5391]

It's because she believes the wild robot is only doing well due to the "evil conservative audience" rallying behind it just to spite Disney. 😅

[@jabezcreed]

Grace has some weird thing against Chris Pratt. The movie trailer looked fun.

[@transfan1988]

He's the Joker we need... no wait, he's the Joker we deserve, but not the one we... wait, he's the Joker who we got, but not the one... just give me a second.

[@sandal_thong]

Todd Phillips said something like that in an interview: We get the villain we deserve.

[@Steven-qs2qv]

This being 40 minutes... OH IM ABOUT TO EAT!!

[@Rizzo2185]

Clearly, the fans are to blame for this…

[@danielkempf1199]

It is really bothering me that these major studios (WB) are green lighting these very artistic films with massive budgets and then blaming audiences when they don't make money. It especially sucks that this is creeping into major IP which is supposed to appeal to the masses and not just a few million people. That's not how a business works and WB complains about not having money yet green lights films that everyone knows won't make a lot of money.

[@PurushaDesa]

I don't think any lessons can be learned from Last of Us, Fallout and Mario. The treatment of the material is so wildly different across all three, with Mario barely functional as a narrative and simply trading off the universal familiarity of the IP.

[@C-Bee]

“Vibes” I guess is what is to be learned. As long as the project has the same “vibe” as the source it doesn’t matter if it’s great (TLoU), good (Fallout), or bad (Mario).

[@bcatbb2896]

DC always had this problem with inconsistency. Make a good movie then follow it up with a horrible sequel - wonder woman and now joker as a example.

[@pb.j.1753]

Aquaman as well

[@Foreverdensword]

Damn

[@usulsk]

Sure, that's why "The Dark Knight" was such a bad movie and a huge flop...

[@hyperdark22]

​@@usulskthat was over a decade and a half ago

[@dariussalepetru6770]

Shazam as well

[@stevejohnson6248]

1. I loved Joker 1. 2. I had no interest in Joker 2 the moment I heard it was a musical. 3. It was clear the movie was not made for me so I obliged the creators by not giving them my money.

[@joecusick3]

Agreed about people who aren’t interested in the source material being a big issue. Not sure the answer is giving studio executives control lol

[@sandal_thong]

You can't let one or two creative people run away with it; it needs to be a team effort. Writers, producers, director, lead actors, executives, editors, and like Grace said, someone looking out for the woman's point of view (or Lady Gaga and her character). They say Marcia Lucas kept a lot of humanity in the OT of _Star Wars_ and said "What happened to Marion?" prompting Spielberg to film a scene of her and Indy on the steps at the end, so we don't think she died on the island or he ditched her. Too bad that because of the divorce she wasn't there to make Willie's character in _Temple of Doom_ likeable by the third act.

[@jturner2577]

​@@sandal_thongTemple of Doom is actually a prequel.

[@jefferymiller30]

"I think this is going to, hopefully, put an end to giving anyone full creative control over an IP that doesn't belong to them" 25:45 Say it LOUDER for the people in the back!

[@freedomtompkins9536]

I have never followed a box office situation more closely and I’m shell shocked by this. And I’ve been covering box office for 7 years now, but this got just worse and worse and worse and every update you think how can this get any worse? And yet it somehow does. This is Dead in the fucking water man. But thanks for another Movie Math! Sundays are never complete without them

[@MinosML]

Hollywood is getting increasingly out of touch with what audiences want and I'm all for it. New blood needs to enter the scene.

[@evilwelshman]

The spin I could see happening is people / the industry making the claim that the problem wasn't with the movie itself but that people are - for reasons external to the movie itself - being turned off going to the cinema more broadly this season, rather than it being Joker 2 or Megalopolis specifically. Hence, why everything is so low right now.

[@pirazel7858]

Joker can still set the record for the lowest performing sequel to a billion Dollar movie

[@audaciousjones]

nah it'll earn more than the marvels

[@pennydreadful5163]

The Marvels says hi

[@entertainmentfan1463]

@@pennydreadful5163 Joker could probably beat the Marvels with that D audience score. I reckon anyone who does watch it would advise their friends to avoid it at all cost.

[@joebradisse2125]

I do feel bad for Lady Gaga after this, but I think she will be able to rehabilitate this pretty easily thanks to her music. My guess, Joker 2 falls about 69-72% in its second weekend with how poorly received it is. I mean, how do you have a worse comic book movie than *Madame Web* of all things?! And yet Todd Phillips and Joaquin Phoenix did it.

[@dstir66]

Soooo disappointing. I'll never watch again

[@jackaustin6189]

I think its not about having "women" to fix the problem. but hiring people who understand the genre and understand the history of the character

[@jturner2577]

Ding ding.

[@John-to6sl]

and to be honest knows where the story is going forward after. Lets be honest. these movies are not supposed to last one movie. While it is imperative they must be able to standalone, they must be able to make it that it might justify a sequel

[@jackaustin6189]

​@@John-to6sl I also, think they used the Harley Quinn in name only. it would have been great to see the backstory of how Harley fell in love with joker, and then at the end of the movie see them both create mayhem, which leads into a third movie. then you have a strong trilogy on our hands

[@BraidyBrown]

Why cant "women" fix this problem? Lol

[@MinosML]

​@@BraidyBrownit's not that they can't. But they can't solely on them being women. They need to understand the source material and what audiences want. And that's regardless of gender.

[@_A.A_]

I don't understand the hate Gaga is getting. Her performance was great and she had nothing to do with the movie being a musical. That was decided before Gaga was even casted. People should show their frustrations with the director rather than the cast who did the best they could with what they were handed

[@sandal_thong]

I don't see hate. I see disappointment and sadness. When it was announced as a musical that's when fans (toxic or otherwise) should have gotten their dander up and said "NO WAY!" Or to coin a phrase, "Go to the window, open it... and yell, 'I'M AS MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!"

[@johnrigs6540]

Absolutely BRILLIANT analysis here Grace. One of your very best. Hollywood would really benefit by using the information you’ve presented here going forward. Because it was right on the money. Joker 2 should have been an EASY home run if they just - as you pointed out- GAVE THE AUDIENCE WHAT IT WANTED. Theatrical Films would be much more successful if they just followed that simple obvious formula!

[@stevengooding286]

This is a DC track record problem. Marvel and Star Wars have ups and downs but have yet to disappoint audiences this consistently. A better comparison is Transformers. Bumble Bee and Transformers One are really good but audiences have been burnt too many times with the Bay films.

[@Beardodoomus]

I knew it would finally happen. Grace finally twigs on to what the 'toxic' fans have been saying for years. Welcome to the team. We just want good films that respect the IP. No more deconstruction of the characters we have enjoyed for decades.

[@Jhnn-l5n]

She needs a few more years for her to get there

[@ericohm9474]

With how terrible joke 2 is, i wonder if it puts into question Joaquin's joker portrayal. After the first movie, people would mention his joker next to heath ledgers, but now, will people mention him with the same enthusiasm?

[@jonathancurran5366]

Good for Barry Keoghan though.

[@asura7915]

nope not anymore

[@sakuragi1062]

Joaquin isn’t even on full Joker up until the 3rd act of the movie he is not fully Joker throughout the whole movie while Ledger is on full Joker performance throughout the The Dark Knight this sequel is supposed to be like him embracing the joker from start to finish.But didn’t even happened so Joaquin isn’t comparable to Ledger’s Joker

[@Austroid]

Has Phoenix dropped down next to Leto's portrayal now?

[@AndrewMandrew4539]

Final season of Superman & Lois tomorrow on the CW. Anyone else plan to watch?

[@AnthonyPi1999]

Fantastic Superman and criminally underrated.

[@phillipjoseph]

One of my cinephile friends told me he had tickets and I was shocked. A few days later, I asked him how he liked it and he admitted to cancelling them after the reviews.

[@michaelkclark6981]

Good video It is not blame . The artist did what they wanted The company took a risk The audience liked what we liked. Success is not a guarantee. Expressing oneself is not the same as a good product. Maybe people deserve to express themselves but that means other people deserve to express themselves with enjoyment or not

[@Delboy0]

Todd Phillips felt himself too much after Joker. No one asked for jukebox musical about a supervillain with an overly pretentious French title and the stunt casting of Lady Gaga. I knew this movie was going to trash as soon as I heard the concept and saw the trailers. I don’t know why people thought this movie was going to be good?

[@TrippVomit666]

YOU GET TO MAKE A SECOND JOKER MOVIE. TODD: HOW BOUT NO!

[@ask4theupgrade359]

I just saw the movie. . It reminded me of “One Flew Over the Cuckoo nest” with music songs from my childhood. If it only costed $20m, it would be okay, but $200m - no way

[@kaldur11]

I’m sick of seeing Harley and Joker.

[@LednacekZ]

D&W is a perfect example that you can do whatever you want with the IP as long as you respect and understand it. It was incredible homage to 20+ years of FOX marvel movies and he literally dug up the corpse of Logan in the first minute of the movie.

[@lytaquiroz1524]

It helps that Reynolds not only is an actor and creative, he is a business man... So thats why he doesnt just focus on the artistic part of the film, while having much control, but he is also carefull about making sure the thing will make money

[@dcmastermindfirst9418]

Deadpool 3 was crap. It was just fan service. Marvel has nothing else

[@dcmastermindfirst9418]

Lol it made money because of cameos.​@lytaquiroz1524

[@entertainmentfan1463]

@@dcmastermindfirst9418 Exactly. Deadpool and Wolverine was basically just Ryan Reynolds version of Spiderman No Way Home ala make it cameo galores and use as much nostalgia as possible. Doesn't take a genius to do that.

[@lytaquiroz1524]

@@dcmastermindfirst9418 just like Flash made money because it had a lot of cameos and play to the nostalgia... Ohhh wait

[@autumnleaves240]

Joker II should been titled, Revenge of the Elites. Hollywood and critics have been at war with their customers for many years now, snearing, looking down at them, and name calling as "toxic fans". When all customers want are good stories and IPs that aren't deconstructed to the point that the characters are unrecognizable. The stubbornness of Hollywood not to course correct and instead, doubling down on viewing their customers as their cultural enemies will be their down fall.

[@Blazecap]

god... that sounds quite a story. Who told you that?

[@kinetic-cybernetic]

What ate you talking about. Critics loved Joker 1 and hate Joker 2.

[@iAmNELLEZ_]

Been waiting for this all week!! Lets go!!

[@primeobjective5469]

This is the movie that received a 10-min standing ovation?! 💀

[@jbrock11]

Definitely the casting of Harley and making it a musical instead of incorporating it more into the DC Universe is probably what doomed it. At least that's what did it for me. I have absolutely no interest in ever watching it, theater or streaming.

[@grinningwombat]

One of your best takes yet Grace. Props to you for calling out the real issues that other people completely dissagree are issues at all.

[@bradzillabrave6856]

I think the opening for Joker 2 would have been worse, except many movie theaters won't let you cancel tickets once you purchase them.

[@StrawberryLegacy]

I'M SO GLAD you're finally watching Interview with the Vampire ❤

[@isaaclopez-eb6yg]

The only thing I can think is the director didn't want to make another Joker and he did everything in his power to make sure the franchise potential was over

[@matiasdevaglia4541]

I don't think so. The franchise potential is over, but so could be his career. He was given 200 millions and full artistic freedom. Now he'll never be trusted again and he'll be lucky to get low budget projects with lots of studio supervision. No one makes a bad film destined to fail on purpose, because it could be the last one you ever get to make.

[@isaaclopez-eb6yg]

@@matiasdevaglia4541 thats the only way I can understand because it feels like intentionally mistakes while putting the movie together

[@theuglyinsect4093]

Yeah with a disaster of this proportion I gotta think Todd Phillips is going to director jail. I don’t see any studio giving this dude a substantial budget for any future projects. These films and the ambition behind them were always above his talent level. I liked the first film but it largely rested on Joaquin’s performance and him borrowing from better films. When he started talking about a sequel I just instinctually started getting nervous about it.

[@isaaclopez-eb6yg]

@@theuglyinsect4093 I think the problem was he wanted to make a film that was antithetical to the original film in some ways. He didn't want to be associated to some of the loud fans of the original. I just think that in doing so he ignored why other people really connected with Arthur and his descent into madness. Especially now that we went through a pandemic, economic trouble, and a number of life altering presidential elections including the current one. The world sometimes feels like madness and how can we make it with our sanity intact

[@katen5598]

YES. 100% agree. And I don't think he made a bad movie on purpose just out of spite. He thinks he's a genius and this is a great movie. They trusted him too much to give him any real useful feedback. He had too much creative control. Big mistake.

[@joejoewalters]

My gosh, how expensive was all the stuff they cut and threw away ....

[@Aaron-zl5gq]

My wife and I cancelled our tickets which we rarely do so that says a lot . And tbh I don’t even care enough now to even watch it digital.

[@mish4830]

Hollywood: We don't talk about the math. BTT MovieMath: Hold my beer!

[@edgar214ER]

Never trust Todd Phillips guy hated his own success lol

[@shemarhenry07]

He’s a 🤡

[@sandal_thong]

I think he liked his success, but didn't like the Joker character. He said he had to convince Joaquin Phoenix to sign up for the first one; the latter wanted to get rid of the Joker stuff and call it Arthur-something. But the former told him it wouldn't get made without the Joker branding. So they used their success to take WB to the cleaners on the sequel.

[@kingslayer1887]

It appears that the Todd Phillip encountered difficulties in securing the necessary approvals for their desired film project. As a result, they opted to utilize the title "Joker" in an attempt to increase the likelihood of obtaining the required green light, as he believes that comic book-based movies have a higher chance of receiving the green light.

[@perennialbeachcomber.7518]

Your honest finger-pointing is welcomed, informative, and particularly good!! The "Comments" section is very informative too.

[@ms.carriage6867]

I will forever be pissed that Coyote vs Acme got binned for a poxy tax break instead of being released or sold to another studio. It had a low budget, had good feed back and would have done ok to maybe good in cinemas and good on digital and streaming probably earning a nice little profit. But no that had to be binned and Joker 2 gets a 200 million budget, probably 300-350 after marketing, and it got released with no test screenings and looks to be a huge flop that will cost WBD a few hundred million in losses. Fuck WBD for making such idiotic choices

[@jaystarr6571]

Yeah, I saw that in this video. What is Coyote vs Acne?

[@ms.carriage6867]

@@jaystarr6571 After years of trying Acme products to catch the Roadrunner the Coyote takes Acme to court 😃😃Sounds like a fun kill some time film that Zazlav wrote off for a 30 million take break so it can never be released

[@VidtopiaEntertainment]

You just read my mind dude

[@sandal_thong]

The movie and show might not have made any money, since they might not know what productions make people subscribe or resubscribe. It also wasn't about quality, it was about a one-time opportunity to grab a tax break.

[@alisterfolson]

Joker 2, WW2, Jack Synder's Vegas zombie movie: vanity projects that went off the rails

[@walterhoward5512]

You don't have to be a fan, but you have to be willing to learn about the source material and understand what makes it work. A perfect example is Wrath of Kahn. The writer and director of Wrath of Kahn was not a Star Trek fan. But, when he made the movie he made sure to watch every episode of Star trek to get why it was popular. He then made the best Star Trek movie.

[@jturner2577]

If you're not willing to learn about the source material and learn what makes it work. You shouldn't be anywhere near the IP.

[@Jhnn-l5n]

Yeah that's a special circumstance not how it goes 90% of the time, a rule should not be made out of the 10% so they need to be fans

[@crapreact5989]

Omg Grace am so happy you're watching interview with the vampire and if u think s1 is good wait till s2 its amazing

[@TheWisestWizards]

Some people are taking things way too personally. Lady Gaga's days of big Hollywood paydays are over. She'll still work, of course. Her career isn't over, but she's not a draw at the box office.

[@alpthed]

She literally has #1 song WW for 5 weeks

[@2Dman533]

@@alpthed Just because people wanna listen to her sing, that doesn't mean people wanna see her act.

[@TheWisestWizards]

@@alpthed I'm talking about her acting career.

[@louisgelvezon9530]

how is her big Hollywood Paydays are over.. When she is at the end of the day earning 5 million per show in her Tour and just signed a contract with Vegas for $110 million.. Her net worth is at $900 Million.. at this point the money she gets in her acting work is pennies lmaoo😂

[@qcrew2938]

Deadpool and Wolverine just made $1.2 billion. Did you forget about that?

[@denM-ey3vb]

Snow White is next. The next flop.

[@dariussalepetru6770]

Of course $37

[@Jhnn-l5n]

Canr wait 😊

[@JoshuaGauze]

The director already bragged about making the sequel with the purpose of sticking it to the original fans. Its not unexpected for it to fail. Im not bothered. Spending $200 million for such a purpose is demented and insane. It says volumes about them

[@Uncle_Baby_Billy]

Having contempt for fans is turning out to be very expensive.

[@shawnbennet432]

Contemptual art..has always went against the grain. Until people eventually caught up.

[@IsaiahStewartJazz]

Contempt for the original viewing audience that gave you $1 billion is a recipe for disaster. Revenge against your original viewing audience is not a winning marketing strategy. The customer is always right 🤔

[@sandal_thong]

I agree with your first two sentences, but not your third. Sometimes the customer is violent, thieving, obnoxious, or in other words not worth having.

[@Jbreezzyyy]

Why were you quick to write Sydney Sweeney off who seems like a rising star but Gaga takes no blame for the flops she’s in?

[@MD19853]

Cause Lady Gaga is the reason it got the little bit of money it got.

[@Jbreezzyyy]

@@MD19853but the first movie made a billion without her?

[@mateom1691]

You could replace Gaga with any other actress of higher or lower caliber and this movie still would have done horribly. Gaga was meant to be a costar and instead her role was diminished to supporting character. She cannot reap any rewards or share in any of the blame because these choices from shrinking the role, to the musical aspects, to changing everything that makes the character likable- none of it was HER choice. There is only Todd Phillips to blame for that And the difference between her and Sidney Sweeney is that Gaga is already an established icon. She could star in pure flops until the end of her career and she will still remain incredibly successful because of her music. Sidney Sweeney has very little to fall back on. She is a relatively new actress on the scene and if she isn’t careful about the projects she picks she will fade into obscurity. She doesn’t have the luxury of falling back on an existing safety net for herself.

[@JGeeNbDZZU8k9YHfsxkcZFumFiXBhj]

The gaga's role was diminished and reduced damage control campaign on social media was debunked..she's never said that and it's only brought up by fan defenders looking to divert blame from gaga

[@mateom1691]

@@JGeeNbDZZU8k9YHfsxkcZFumFiXBhj I personally believe that it was reduced just because of the missing scenes that we’ve seen in trailers and behind the scenes pictures of that weren’t in the actual movie. However, regardless of whether or not her role was reduced, that doesn’t change the fact that every decision made for her character- from the personality, the size of the role, the musical aspects, and the plot- none of it was her doing. With or without Gaga the role would have been equally horrible because it was butchered by Phillips.

[@exzactlyvideo]

I booked Joker 2 on the balcony of a Super Screen in London. When I got there, everyone that had booked a seat online had failed to show up at all.

[@TueSorensen]

Problem, Grace, is that "actual quality" and "commercialism" are almost never the same thing. Considering how Hollywood "can't afford" for too few people to like its movies, it is friggin' astounding how bad most Hollywood movies are. It makes no sense. Hollywood tries to appeal to lowest common denominators in order to get butts in seats, but they rarely care about actual quality. Analyses like yours seem to overlook this basic and obvious fact a lot, falling back on knee-jerk judgments about how poor box office reception translates to poor quality and vide versa, which is just not the factual case. Even when you personally like a movie that fails commercially, the next minute (with your doggone business hat on) you call it a fiasco. This equalizing of box office success with quality is one of the most unbecoming things Americans do. Especially when wearing business hats. Try to do videos for the common people rather than for business men.

[@bluboy4ver2]

I'm so glad you finally caught on to Interview with the Vampire, I wish AMC dropped both seasons on Netflix so it would drive up the viewership but it continues gain new viewers gradually with so I'm hoping season 3 gets bigger numbers when it drops. I feel like WB executives should have asked themselves would they allow a director to do what Todd Phillip's has to Joker if it were Batman before they decided to let anyone see the movie.

[@MarkieMark-lh2ri]

I rewatched Joker last night...wow, what a fall between that and the second one. 😬

[@djaf8550]

Omg Grace thank you for acknowledging that it’s better to adapt comic book material faithfully than for a small group niche of people. At the end of the day theses IPs Shoukd be 4 quadrant and be accessible to most people not just a few.

[@sandal_thong]

Right. They're popular characters and stories because they appealed to a lot of people! Of course movies have the potential to reach a lot more people than book and comic book readers. But you could say the stories are tried-and-true or market-tested.