2024 NFL Season Awards Spectacular: Lamar Jackson Or Josh Allen For MVP? |

[@johnrodgers9553]

you guys are not only the best nfl podcasters, but some of the best podcasters period. dont think anyone is more ahead of the rest of the field than you guys are. cheers!

[@aneesabashir8496]

You guys crushed it in 2024. Keep up the great work in 2025!

[@TAFootballShow]

Thank you so much, really appreciate you being along for the ride!

[@jonathanriches4419]

Brainwashed ravens fan reporting, I do think that people aren’t making a big enough deal about how few picks Josh is throwing. He was good for like 20 a season, now he’s down to 6? Absolutely unreal discipline and maturation

[@AreolaGrande94]

you two da real mvps. i miss nate tice but holy shit derrik knows his stuff. love it all.

[@jondykstra6190]

Chiefs going 15-1 and wrapping up the 1 seed two weeks early while going for a 3-peat seems like they should at least get mentioned a couple times over the course of this show.

[@reasonablegentleman]

You are really underselling Jayden Daniels, 3500 yards, 69% completion percentage, and 860 rushing yards is a combination that I doubt anyone else has accomplished in league history. He is efficient, and explosive in the pass and run game. Daniels is definitely a top 10 qb this year, but without spending too much time on it, he has probably been top 5.

[@Sportsguy0258]

I’m pretty sure Lamar did this but had 1200 rushing yds 😂😂

[@reasonablegentleman]

@Sportsguy0258 Jackson has had multiple years that were better over all, but he has never completed 69% of his passes for the season.

[@kennytoce5946]

Not really man but he is a shiny new toy

[@MaseBoogie]

Lamar did it in 2019 2023 and 2024 but the comp percentage is better besides this year Lamar thrown for 69

[@drewstancill1767]

Yeah, the guy giving it to Bowers is a jabroney

[@teacherl8330]

The OROY: Daniels has 11 weeks of best rookie designations. A top-8 qb over a top-3 te.

[@Firestartersan]

Great episode. I'm fine with whoever wins MVP just so we can move on as a football viewing public to focusing on the playoffs.

[@aneesabashir8496]

Fantastic take. 100% agree

[@G.T.A]

If this is the argument for Surtain, Sneed should have got the nod last year. Chris Jones carried the Chiefs through their offensive struggles this year

[@hacklancer4791]

I Feel like one angle you didn’t cover on Josh Allen is that he has had 3 weeks this year where he’s been the worst QB in the NFL that week. And the fact that while playing at his absolute worst only lost 2 of those game and 1 of those losses was a missed field goal. Allen has not needed to be Superman this year. Fuck just look at his stat line at halftime for the chiefs game. 15/23 167 yards, 0 TDs, 1 INT. THEY WERE WINNING.

[@timothyrussell2362]

What are you even on? You can make a case for the Texans game (still nearly won) or Ravens game (not nearly as bad as the box score) but I cannot for the life of me think what 3rd game you're referring to. As for the Chiefs, that's a good stat line! On pace for 334 yds, an INT that was on the TE and the lead.

[@MichaelRiedel-y7w]

Did you watch the video? At 1:20:20 he literally talked about “bad games” for each QB.

[@ChewsCarefully]

Ah, yes that one-sided argument that it isn't Allen's fault when his team asks him to carry the offense too often. Remember what everyone said when the Ravens' coaches openly admitted that they did this to Lamar in the playoffs last year? "Lamar has no excuses. His coaches called nothing but RPOs all games which are QB's choice. This means that _he, Lamar_ made all the bad decisions ergo it's his fault that they lost" whereas whenever it's mentioned in conjunction with Allen it's acknowledged that no QB can possibly be expected to succeed under such conditions. Hey didn't y'all also say that it was *_Dorsey_* who forced Allen to do this? Hmmm. It's almost as if this narrative is hypocritically inconsistent. Like *_all_* narratives.

[@hacklancer4791]

@@timothyrussell2362 Patriots week 17, 16/29 154 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT

[@hacklancer4791]

@@MichaelRiedel-y7w I did some digging to see and realized using adjusted epa/play i thought neither QB actually ever went negative. Until i got to week 3 and low and behold Josh Allen had a whopping -.215 AEpa/Play against you guessed it. The worst passing defense in the league for the first 14 weeks Ravens.

[@teacherl8330]

This is the IDEAL time for awards because after 16 games is equivalent to the past few decades. That extra game 17th game will break records with asterixes and scoffs.

[@donniebarbados]

not enough love for kwesi who brought in blake cashman, andrew van ginkel, jonathan greenard, sam freaking darnold on a $10 mil contract (!), aaron jones, picked up cams akers and robinson mid season, and built the vikings a roster that has won over twice their projected games???

[@BM-si2ei]

The Robinson signing literally saved their season. Unreal to get him for pocket change

[@Bourbakii]

The mvp discussion was exhilarating. Way better than twitter and espn 😂

[@angelahester24]

I don’t agree that Josh should get MVP over Lamar, but I appreciate that both of you guys were very thoughtful in your approach.

[@fredreickweaver809]

If Warner didn’t break his ankle he might have had a real shot, oh well PS2 extremely deserving.

[@e2rqey]

If Aiden Hutchinson didnt get injured, he was probably on a transcendent pass rushing season pace.

[@philibusters]

I still feel like Derrick is underselling Jayden Daniels season quite a bit. This probably largely goes back to the last episode where he called him a top half of the league QB, but it also goes to discussion of how he was talking about Brock Bowers as the second or third best TE this season when talking about MVP and saying how unique that is. He mentioned Joe Alt as being the next closest thing to being an All Pro. According to PFF, Jayden Daniels has been the 5th best QB (90.1) and he is much closer to 4th place Justin Herbert (90.5) than he is to 6th place Patrick Mahomes and Sam Darnold who are tied with an 85.8 grade through 16 games. Joe Alt in 16th in PFF tackle grade with a 78.5. 16th is not as good as 5th. I get my EPA stats from Kevin Cole (who likely gets them from PFF) which may be different from where Robert and Derrick get them as they probably get them from NextGenStats. Kevin Cole will release EPA stats through 16 games later today, so I currently only have teh stats through 15 games, but through 15 games, Jayden Daniels was 4th in actual EPA, 5th in adjusted EPA, and 6h in adjusted EPA per dropback (actual tied with Burrow for 6th behind Jackson, Allen, Love, Darnold, and Goff). That also assumes a minimum of 100 dropbacks as Malik Willis with his 64 dropbacks would edge out Jackson and Allen for first place if you don't include a minimum 100 dropbacks. I think a real argument could be made that Jayden Daniels has been the fourth or fifth best QB in the NFL for the 2024 season. The Commanders rank 7th in offensive DVOA. They don't have an overly talented roster. Look at the receivers Daniels had to work with in the second half of the Philly game and Falcons game. Noah Brown is out for the season, Dyami Brown pulled a hamstring so they are down to Terry McLaurin, Jameson Crowder, Olamide Zaccheaus, KJ Osburne, Luke McCraffrey, and Brycen Tremaine. Against the Falcons, Andrew Wylie was ruled out early in the week. His backup Cornelius Lucas got hurt midway through the game, so they were down to their third string tackle, Trent Scott who played like a third string tackle (40 PFF grade on 35 snaps) and their center, Tyler Biadszc got hurt early in the game and the backup center Michael Dieter struggled (48 PFF grade on 61 snaps). But Daniels made it work to the tune of 30 points despite a bunch of penalties killing them and limiting them to 7 points in the first half. There is always an ongoing argument about whether EPA per dropback is really a QB stat or a team stat given that surrounding cast and playcalling certainly factor into it. I do think Kliff is a good playcaller, but Daniels supporting cast is meh. Worse than Chicago, Atlanta, and Denver in my opinion (though definitely better than New England), which makes Daniels EPA numbers all the more amazing. Yes Kliff deserves some of the credit too. But I think of Kliff as a top 10 playcaller not as a guru in his own tier or anything. Just in in the NFC I think San Fran, LA, Detroit, Minnesota, Green Bay, Tampa Bay all have similar excellent playcallers. If we say Kliff is propping up Daniels than I certainly think the same can be said for Jordan Love who has a great playcaller and slightly better supporting cast. Long story short I really believe Daniels has been the 4th or 5th best QB in the NFL this season. I would firmly place Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, and Joe Burrow ahead of him. There are other guys you could argue should be ahead of him, but no other QB's are really firmly ahead of him, at least in my opinion. I just feel like Derrick wasn't high on Daniels and while he is going to give him his props as being quite a bit better than he expected, he is not going to acknowledge he has been a top 5ish QB for this season. Doesn't mean he is a top 5 QB overall. He may be viewed as that in a few years, but Dak Prescott was pretty clearly a top 5 QB last year but nobody viewed him as a top 5 QB overall. Likewise, CJ Stroud was a top 10 QB last year and this year he is more like a top half QB. But at least for this seaosn, Daniels has been a top 5ish QB with an argument to be as high as fourth.

[@philibusters]

For what its worth, I did look up CJ Strouds actual EPA in the data Kevin Cole provides for last year. It was 56. So it is not in the same ball park (Daniels was at 138.7 with two games left to add on to it) and that is what you would expect given the Texans offense last year was not as prolific as the Commanders offense this year. Daniels actual EPA was at 138.7 before this last game. That is how many points are added above expected on a QB dropbacks and designed runs (so it includes sacks, scrambles, throws, and designed run, but does not include RB runs). That number seems accurate. For example, the Commanders are fifth in scoring this year at 28.9 points per game. Last year they averaged 19.4, which is 9.5 points per game increase. Since that 138.7 actual EPA only covers the 15 games of the season if you multiple 9.5 x 15 = 142.5 so over 15 games the offense has scored 142.5 more points than their average ppg last year x 15. Daniels 138.7 indicates most of that improvement is coming on his drop backs and designed runs (also that assumes the Howell had 0 EPA last year when the reality is they had -49 EPA last year). Part of why the EPA increase exceeds the increase of the actual amount of points increase is likely that the Commanders had more drives last year per game (probably mostly because they had a lot more three and outs themselves and because Kingsbury calls a much more balanced game whereas last year they lead the league in pass to run ratio which means more incompletions and clock stoppages and just more overall plays in the game)

[@kevincurnick]

Put the meth pipe down sheeeesh

[@jimme1982]

You guys have crushed it this year. My favorite NFL podcast. It is a bit funny to me though how the chiefs are 15-1. The only time they get mentioned in this award pod is Andy Reid as like the 10th guy for coty. Veach have had better years, but what does he have to do to win it.

[@Nathane19]

Daniels is firmly a top 7/8 QB as a rookie.

[@LamarFrancis]

Bowers is firmly a top 2 TE (would argue number ONE for this year) as a rookie.

[@Nathane19]

Bowers is great, but he’s primarily a big slot receiver, not a traditional TE. It’s more fair to consider his numbers in that context. Big picture think we should recognize Daniels for arguably the best rookie season by a QB in the modern era (top 5 qb this season in most analytics). Bowers is fantastic and would win in most years

[@drewstancill1767]

​@@LamarFrancisDaniels is way better than Bowers, you're insane

[@LamarFrancis]

@ lol see this is how I know you’re just on a propaganda train. I think Bowers had a better rookie season as a player, but I wouldn’t say he’s way better than Daniels. I wouldn’t even need to compare the players going forward, just the season. Even with CJ & Puka, regardless on where people landed, no one thought one was way better than the other. Because that would be a lie. & the funny thing is that I wouldn’t hate Jayden getting it. I’d disagree and figure that people were biasing QBs and the NFC East, which has the most disproportionate media coverage and national games in the league. But I’d know that a “deserving player” won. All the “how dare they pick anyone other than Jayden this year” is how I know it’s an unreasonable disagreement vs a reasonable disagreement.

[@drewstancill1767]

​@@LamarFrancisJayden is literally 4th in QBR and 4th in EPA in the league at the quarterback position.. for context, last year CJ Stroud was 15th in QBR and 16th in EPA For even more context, if you put Daniels stats into last season he would have been 3rd in both of those stats last year Bowers has had a great season but Daniels is having the greatest rookie season by a QB in NFL history.. stop pretending this race is close, it's not

[@torretagestad6181]

How in the hell is the GM of the year not Kwesi?? He let go of Cousins and Hunter and signed the following players: Cashman, Van Ginkel, Greenard, and Gilmore. Cashman is undefeated on the season. Van Ginkel and Greenard are each within 3 sacks of the league leader and Gilmore is saving the secondary from being awful after our best CB tore his acl in mini camp and our draft pick DIED. Like wtf washington simply drafter Jayden Daniels. Which anyone would've done. Chargers have Harbaugh. Oh yeah I almost forgot Sam Fucking Darnold. For 10 mill. Kwesi by a million miles. No one is even a close second.

[@philibusters]

As a Commanders fan I somewhat agree with that. Adam Peters had a solid off season. I am pleased with his performance so far. But if Sam Howell was still the QB this team wins maybe 6 or 7 games(which would still be a 2 or 3 game jump from last year). So much of the Commanders success comes down to Jayden Daniels. Kliff Kingsbury has done a great job too and deserves some of the credit pie but like 60% of the credit pie is Jayden Daniels. The other 40% can be credited to Quinn, Kingsbury, and the roster upgrades Peters made amongst other stuff. And while I disagree that anybody would have drafted Daniels--there was no consensus between him and Drake Maye, the community was divided 50-50 or so on who was QB2--I somewhat agree that Peters can only get so much credit for what was essentially a 50-50 call. Don't get me wrong bringing in guys like Wagner, Luvu, Chinn, Fowler, Ertz, Biadscz, Allegretti were all solid moves and he had a solid draft, but I somewhat agree its Jayden Daniels driving the quick rise of the Commanders. As I commented elsewhere in response to Derrik giving Bowers the OROY. If Daniels and Bowers flipped teams (and Sam Howell was teh QB of the Commanders) the Raiders probably win 9 games and the Commanders probably win like 7. It may not be quite that simple as Luke Getsy maybe holds back the Raiders with Daniels under center, but under a serviceable but not good OC like Scott Turner (who was the OC for the Commanders from 2020 to 2022 so I am familiar with him) I think Daniels gets the Raiders to 8 or 9 wins

[@reneewilliams5777]

People picked the Jets to win the division over the Bills! While the Ravens added an MVP candidate running back. In a rebuilding year they are the 2 seed.

[@thetrib1]

people picked the steelers to win 7 or 8 games and be 3rd or 4th in the division. the jets and the dolphins are more talented than the bills just like the browns and bengals are more talented than the steelers. play the games.

[@BrandonBB4]

Don't worry, Broncos fans recognize Daniels is offensive rookie of the year he's been excellent.

[@drewstancill1767]

Anyone saying Bowers is insane. Yes, he has been very good but how many of his catches and yards came in complete garbage time against prevent defense? Daniels has had his biggest moments in the most clutch parts of games.. they aren't even comparable

[@codythomssen9337]

Lamar is the mvp he has the hardest schedule and the best stats. His QBR for a rushing threat is outlandish.

[@reneewilliams5777]

What about the fact that Josh Had better numbers than him last year? What about having Derrick Henry to help ? What about getting the 2 seed in a rebuilding year where people picked the Bills to miss the playoffs because of all the talent that left?

[@codythomssen9337]

@reneewilliams5777 what about the ravens losing 5 coaches to other teams because they were good coaches. And rebuilding half the oline in 1 offseason. Of course the ravens started slow in September. Also it's crazy we went from saying lamar has no weapons to saying zay and Bateman are now all world players. Henry has been great but it's also because lamar is a threat himself.

[@excaliburofthelevant5750]

Lamar is going to lead the league in yards per carry and pass yards per attempt with the highest passer rating of all time.what are we debating here

[@UncleKoolaids]

It really does feel like I'm taking crazy pills. We're watching Prime aaron Rodgers' efficiency while he also has 900 yards rushing. It's genuinely ridiculous, and I don't get how allen is leading in odds and probably gonna win.

[@BZim36]

@@UncleKoolaidsyou need to watch more Bills games then.

[@UncleKoolaids]

@BZim36 I've watched every game this season if you count every primetime game and redzone. He's been great, just not nearly as good as lamar.

[@philibusters]

I guess one last comment on OROY. Jayden Daniels does have the highest PFF grade amongst rookies with a 90.1. Brock Bowers is fourth amongst rookies with a 86.3. Bucky Iriving is second, Nabers is third, Jared Verse is fifth, Cooper Dejean is 6th, Edgerrin Cooper is 7th, Domnic Puni is 8th, Brian Thomas is 9th, and Ladd McConkey is 10th, and Joe Alt is 11th. Daniels is closer in PFF grade to the highest graded QB, Lamar Jackson 93.5, then Bowers is to the highest graded TE George Kittle 92.4. It is true that Bowers is the second highest graded TE (though Trey McBride is a mere .1 behind him) and Daniels is 5th amongst QBs. I write this to just question the assumption of Derrik that Bowers has necessarily been a better TE than Daniels has been a QB. They have both been great and its close.

[@wonderfulfaison]

Brock Bowers has been great. But the RoTY is Jayden Daniels. What he's doing is historic for the franchise and the NFl. Absurd you all just said only Brock Bowers and Puca made history their rookie year. Come on. That math ain't mathing.

[@snomrom6595]

It’s really not that historic. Herbert, Stroud, and Luck had better years. He also is mid and Drake Maye is a better qb. Brock might be the best TE in the league next year.

[@wonderfulfaison]

@snomrom6595 31 TDs, 3500passing yards, 820 rushing yards. No QB in history has done that. I didn't say everything Jayden did was historic, but go check those numbers. No QB has had that line in the NFL ever. Also, ur just a hater. JD is mid and Drake is better. Ok, Pats fan. 😂😂😅

[@drewstancill1767]

​@@snomrom6595lol no.. Daniels is 4th in QBR and 4th in EPA.. let's look at those others in their rookie years Stroud last year: 15th in QBR and 16th in EPA... Jayden would have been 3rd in both last year Luck in 2012: 11th in QBR and 6th in EPA.. Jayden would have been 4th in QBR and 2nd in EPA in 2012 Herbert in 2020: 13th in QBR and 5th in EPA.. Jayden would have been 5th in QBR and 7th in EPA So the only rookie season even remotely comparable is Herbert, in which Daniels would still have been better.. better TD to TO ratio and Herbert had MUCH better weapons

[@plorell]

@@snomrom6595FOMO much. Your team picked third in the 2024 NFL Draft. Live with it.

[@terencebarnes7393]

@@snomrom6595You’re a Pats fan that probably pays zero attention to Commanders to even know what you’re talking about. Maye good but to act like he is playing better then Jayden is foolish. 3-4 of Jayden INTs were drops our toss up at end of game. I like Maye a lot and thought we be great with him. Maybe we can have a little rivalry when we play.

[@gregorycampbell9386]

How can they its razor thin but still suggest Allen should win MVP when Lamar is leading him in most major stats category.?

[@AreolaGrande94]

you were the kid in the class that needed help crossing the street and slicing his bread, right?

[@excaliburofthelevant5750]

It’s racial bias. It’s Lamar by a mile

[@masonhayworth1049]

Josh had significantly better stats last year and Lamar won. Team success matters to MVP

[@mattrollins7506]

This is exactly what people stumping for Josh last year were saying. The turnovers were pronounced, but that seemed to allow people to completely overlook the destruction Allen rained down in ‘23. Anyway, stats are helpful, but context matters. Remember what the narrative was this off-season? The Bills were about to take a big step backward. They lost too many guys. They only have one WR on the team who has ever caught passes from Josh! Meanwhile, the Ravens were >this< close to a Super Bowl and added a Hall of Famer to the offense. Well… the Bills are 13-3, have the second best scoring offense and point differential, and are led by a QB who is the only player to account for 40 TDs for five straight seasons (or even 4 seasons, which he accomplished last year). I wouldn’t be upset if Lamar won, he’s been incredible, but so has Allen.

[@Jajuan_Sanders]

Bro! They literally explained it in the video. Like they clearly explained some of the things that Josh Allen has done this year. Even as a Ravens and Lamar fan, I have to agree that Josh Allen’s sack avoidance and pass game difficulty are great cases for the dude. It’s really close. Lamar and Allen have similar stats except for rushing yards. It’s okay to appreciate greatness from both sides. No need to hate. If Josh wins, it’s well deserved.

[@mendelspalter282]

Why is Jared Goff completely ignored in the MVP race? People have old narratives

[@timothyrussell2362]

Because he has the best offensive support in the league this season? #1 HC candidate at OC, 2 1k WRs, 2 1k RBs, stud TE, best OL in the league. Pro Bowler, not MVP for Goff.

[@mendelspalter282]

@ and Lamar doesn’t have a good supporting cast? Allen doesn’t? And he doesn’t have the best supporting cast anyway. He as one back with over 1,000, the other had 775 and is injured. One 1,000 yard receiver, second will probably cross this week. Tight end is good, but both on Baltimore are better. He doesn’t have the best o-line either. Baltimore has a better RB and better tight ends and they have a great o-line. And they have good receivers too. Buffalo also has a great o-line, great RB and good tight ends/receivers. Buffalo has a bad OC? Baltimore has a bad OC? This is lazy.

[@philibusters]

He is third in actual EPA (though a fair amount behind Jackson and Allen) so that indicates he should be in consideration. But his PFF grade is 15th amongst QBs. A high EPA mixed with a low PFF grade to me indicate supporting cast and playcalling are probably carrying a larger share of the load than guys who have both a really high EPA and PFF grade. But Lamar Jackson is first in PFF grade and 2nd in EPA and Josh Allen is first in EPA and third in PFF grade (behind Jackson and Burrow). Even if you just focus on EPA he is trailing them.

[@philibusters]

@@mendelspalter282 In terms of supporting cast, Baltimore does not have a great O-Line. They are pretty mid there. Henry is great and they do have good tight ends and solid receivers. But Detroit has either the best or second best (Philly is the other contender) O-Line in the NFL a top 8 WR duo in St. Brown and Williams, a great TE in LaPorta, and a great RB duo in Montgomery and Gibbs, plus a guy in the conversation for the best playcaller in the NFL in Ben Johnson. Allen has a good, but not great O-Line, he had below average WR's before they traded for Cooper, after the trade for Cooper they are solid there but still pretty mid. Again while Goff is 3rd in EPA behind them (and he still behind them in EPA) his PFF grade is significantly lower (he ranks 15th amongst QBs) and the indication there whether it be correct or incorrect is that means he not doing as much of the lifting.

[@mendelspalter282]

@ we’re just arguing facts here. Buffalo has a great o-line. Khalil shakir and cooper plus hollins and Coleman is a very good room. They have two good tight ends and a great back. Baltimore has a pretty good receiver room too, zay flowers and Bateman and that’s besides their tight end room, RB and o-line (which in the beginning of the season wasn’t good but they’re shaped up well since). Lions o-line is not top of the line in pass pro. Is Laporta better than either tight end in Baltimore? I like how you say top 8 receiver room. Interesting cutoff point for elite. None of these talking heads call Amon Ra top 5 but for some reason in the Goff convo he’s surrounded by the best players in the league (I think Amon Ra is top 5). And I personally couldn’t care about PFF. The eye test is VERY different than their scores.

[@joshm1671]

LAMAR is the NFL MVP! Leads in virtually everything. Not just the historical Top 5 all time Szn. But 1 of Hardest schedules in NFL. SOS&SOV 545&539. 7-3 Vs Playoff teams and H2H Smackdown of Allen 35-10. Compared to Allen 2-3 vs Playoff teams. Also often hear "Support " argument. Lamar has QB Betrayal Metrics in his Favor. 32nd ranked Def&STs 1st 10 Weeks of the season while Allen had 13th Ranked&has had around 13th Ranked all yr. If Ravens/Lamar had around 13th Ranked DEF/STs 1st 10 weeks.. when Tucker was shanking huge kicks every other week& Defense giving up the most 20+ yrd pass plays. Ravens would be 15-2 and Lamar UNANIMOUS MVP bc hes been the no.1 QB All dang year and overcome it all.

[@bgorg1]

ORTY is t even close. 8 game turn around

[@cheebot]

Somehow pissed people off naming 10 coaches lol. (Kliff Kingsbury vindicated btw?!)

[@jondykstra6190]

Its boring, but Kwesi-KOC-Flores for the non-player awards seems fairly obvious with Kwesi building that roster and creating the ideal QB situation. KOC turning arround Sammy. And Flores rebuilding that defense into an elite unit in a year with no CBs or IDL.

[@howardshaw2585]

Merry Xmas, Happy New year to all. Now i wii keep listening to the pod, sonetimes its a hate listen but only sometimes. Mays, you are consistant. From 2018 & through 2019 season, you have been sceptical (confidently so) about Lamar. & Like so many of your medis contemporaries. You call a race where one QB leads in all major stats, cherry pick qb rush t.d's (tush push) anyone) & t/overs, which u kno is more than a qb stat, & exaggerate their importance to prove your josh A bias. Allen had 18 interceptions last year, more than games played. 5th in a vote the winner received 49 of 50 cast. Stop the revisionist history!!! & This year you have to ignore passing t/d's, massive td to intercepion positive raitio for Lamar, Ravens strength of schedule compared to Bills. Historic all time passer rating, a stat that is meant to be biased against LJs type of qb. All you have to ignore to make Josh Allen (Mr tier all by himself) you MVP. .. i have been listening 🎧 for years & Robert M, you & the rest of the 'Lamar But' crew remain consistent. So Lamar Jackson failed your eye test (with a significant harder schedule, in this statistical historic season). Wow!!! ... Yeh seems fair🙄

[@philibusters]

I guess I would ask Derrik what QB's in the past 30 years have had a better season than Jayden. The only one that comes to mind is Andrew Luck who took a meh supporting cast and got the Colts to the playoffs with a 10-6 record. Jayden has done the same and the record is 11-5. I don't think CJ Strouds season last year is quite on Daniels and Luck's level but that would probably be my third best in the past 30 years. I just don't get his attitude that Jayden has been reasonable good for a rookie and nothing more.

[@LamarFrancis]

I would say CJ’s was better. Daniels’ season was more exciting and has more fantasy points due to the rushing, but I’d say the guys that had better rookie seasons are: CJ Herbert Cam RG3’s season is very similar to Daniels’. Then you have guys like Dak who really elevated the team.

[@drewstancill1767]

Jayden is literally 4th in the league in QBR and is the first QB since 1970 to have 5 TDs in the last 30 seconds of a game.. he also has broken numerous NFL rookie r cords this year and has turned a 4-13 team into a playoff team.. insane to give it to anyone other than Jayden

[@drewstancill1767]

​@@LamarFrancisthis is ludicrous.. Daniels is 4th in the NFL in QBR over people like Patrick Mahomes lol.. way better than CJs year against a total shit division last year

[@LamarFrancis]

@ you keep comparing his counting stats (which don’t say who a better player is - or else there’d be no need to watch the game) to other QBs instead of Bowers, as if this is MVP, where positional “value” matters.

[@drewstancill1767]

@@LamarFrancis being the 4th best QB in the league as a rookie is MUCH more difficult than being the 2nd or 3rd best TE.. come on man, every football fan knows this

[@ignacioiribarren9968]

Derrick, Bowers over JD5 ? Really, moronic

[@benwilliams2780]

It's absolutely ridiculous that Andy Reid doesn't even get genuine consideration for Coach of the Year. I guess he just has to go 17-0 to get any votes at all

[@hacklancer4791]

I don’t get why y’all need Andy Reid to get all the credit that Steve Spags deserves

[@benwilliams2780]

​@@hacklancer4791 They both deserve credit like KOC and Flores

[@ChewsCarefully]

Why? All of this is mindless adoration. I've yet to hear one person give one reason any coach should be best, ever. Even when I see docs or analysis videos about coaches, they seem incapable of grasping what it is they do. & _none_ of you knows a single thing they do outside of "Dan Campbell goes for it too much on 4th down." That's about it.

[@LamarFrancis]

Guys, Brock Bowers for OROY is the RIGHT choice. There’s way too much QB bias here. It’s not the MVP award, where QBs get extra points for their position. It’s similar to OPOY. No one things Saquon getting offensive player of the year over a QB is an issue, because we realize we’re removing the QB bias that exists with MVPs. Brock Bowers has been a top TWO tight end this season. Not only does that make him an all-pro this year, but that’s a position that’s probably the hardest to translate to as a rookie. People had legit debates between CJ & Puka. One could argue that due to position, Bowers had a more impressive season than Puka and one could easily argue that while Daniels had the more spectacular rookie season, CJ had the better one on film and with advanced stats.

[@drewstancill1767]

Daniels is literally 4th in the NFL in QBR.. Brock Bowers has a bunch of garbage time receptions and receiving yards when his team is down by 4 TDs in the 4th quarter..

[@LamarFrancis]

@@drewstancill1767 you’d be great on first take.

[@LamarFrancis]

Also guys, it’s okay to disagree with Klass (or me lol). It’s just that the “how dare they pick anyone other than Jayden this year” is how I know it’s an unreasonable disagreeing party vs a reasonable disagreeing party.

[@drewstancill1767]

@@LamarFrancis I would be the reasonable person I guess lol

[@drewstancill1767]

@@LamarFrancis Jayden is probably the most deserving candidate we've had for rookie of the year in decades.. that's why it's ridiculous to think about Bowers.. if you stacked up all of the offensive rookie of the year winners since the year 2000, Daniels would have the best season of all of them.. many other years Bowers may have won but it's unfortunate for him that he is in the year that Daniels is having the best rookie season of all time

[@sheirinido7533]

and cmon daniels has the worst set of skill players with him too

[@sheirinido7533]

cmon with the brock bower shit, great season but a te vs a qb is not even close, not to mention raiders are worst team in the league. jayden daniels has been betteer than cj stroud was ly and stroud was increibvle ly.

[@benjamindovel1522]

Klass coming in as an all time hater. Cant wait til he’s gone. Bias against Jayden and Washington because of what he said pre season. GTFO with Bowers and his 10 yards a catch with 4 tds on a shitty team.

[@drewstancill1767]

Exactly.. it's an absurd statement for him to make

[@Cjcastres]

@@drewstancill1767I mean yall didn’t really listen to his points then if you think he’s hating 😂 cmon now

[@aaronh305]

OROTY discussion I lost all respect. Unsubbing.

[@Cjcastres]

Bye then! 😂

[@TheBigJankowski]

Unsubbing because you don't agree on an opinion? Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out. But please do leave a link to your YT channel

[@jalbro112]

Has to be trolling with the Bowers pick

[@philibusters]

I don't think he was trolling. I just don't think he acknowledges Jayden has been as good as he has been. And in fairness to Derrik, Bowers has probably been the #2 or 3 TE whereas Jayden has been the #4 or 5 QB. But that point loses some force when he mentions a guy like Joe Alt (16th ranked Offensive Tackle by PFF grade) who also stands out for being in a higher echelon than the other rookies. I think Derrik thinks of Jayden as being QB like 15 for 2024 season which makes no sense as QB 15 doesn't elevate the Commanders offense from 27th last year in DVOA to 7th this year.

[@philibusters]

Not to pile on Derik, but just one more comment that bothered me about Daniels. He says Daniels has been good for a rookie. Within the context he said the numbers speak for themselves and they have been good for a rookie. That makes it sound like he is Bo Nix. Bo Nix ranks 23rd in PFF grade and 22nd according to Kevin Cole's PFF grade. By rookie standards those are respectable numbers. Bronocos have a top 8 O-Line, a maybe top 24 group of receiving weapons so the overall supporting cast is average, not propping him up (like Daniels he does have a good playcaller). Daniels is 5th in PFF grade and 4th in actual EPA. Derrik doesn't not distinguish. He says Daniels has been good for a rookie. NO! Daniels has just been good. Again I don't think Derrik is intentionally trolling, but some of his comments make it seem like despite being a paid analyst he doesn't actually study data.

[@BjorkBjork-y4b]

The entire show was pretty absurd.

[@drewstancill1767]

​@@philibustersyeah, statistically Daniels is a top 5-7 QB this season.. wayyyyy more impressive than Bowers

[@JT2327]

If Lamar breaks the passer record rating for a single season AND breaks Mike Vick’s rushing record…. There is no justification for anyone else to get the MVP

[@reneewilliams5777]

I disagree! Lamar has Derrick Henry that helps all his stats be better. Receivers are more open because of how defenses are playing. That helps his stats. Losses to bad teams while having Derrick Henry to help

[@JT2327]

@ Fair enough. I acknowledge Derrick helped Lamar’s numbers, but you also have to acknowledge that Lamar helped Derrick numbers as well. Derrick said in his last interview, playing with Lamar makes everyone’s job earlier. That’s why he’s my MVP