20K Mile Update: Model S Plaid All Season Tires and TS5 Wheels

[@thedownwardmachine]

I have PSAS4s and 19" TSTs on my MSP and they are great, I see 270-330Wh/mi. This is coming from the stock staggered 21" with Pilot Super Sports, which gave me a lot of trouble. No issues with the new wheels, the flow forged rims are holding up well and the extra sidewall helps, too. The driving is about as good, and I can drive in chain controls without chains just fine. No regrets on the upgrade 👍

[@TheLifeofJoeLee]

Great to hear about your experience and the efficiency of your set up!

[@deanrim7149]

Good idea to get wheel alignment while in low mode…I did the same at the Tesla Service Center (my suspension is always in low mode) but the advisor said that doesn’t make a difference. What do you think?

[@TheLifeofJoeLee]

It was unfortunate that the Tesla service advisor didn't have my "before" alignment specs, but they had made some adjustments to my front camber and toe for both front and rear. The rear toe was out of spec which I think contributed to the tire wear. The toe changes slightly with ride height so I think adjusting the toe to be within spec at the ride height that you spend the most time would help. The wear on my all seasons at 20k is better than I had anticipated.

[@sjrosso2626]

Hi - given the Sportlines have 10 mm less offset than the arachnid rears, do you fine the reat 285 tires to be significantly inward relative to the fronts?

[@TheLifeofJoeLee]

Hello, relative to the Arachnids, the TS5s are closer to the fender by 11.4 mm in the rear and 17.7 mm in the front. The rear is slightly more inset than the front wheels but I don't think it is significant. A 5mm spacer in the rear would make them even.

[@tubemayhem7242]

Thanks Joe for providing very useful information. Some Plaid owners might be reluctant to install aftermarket suspension components due to Tesla's dislike of any mods showing up in their service centers. You show an approach that seems to solve the inner tire wear issues all while keeping everything stock. Have you noticed any performance degradations (e.g. 0-60) from going with all-seasons? Sorry if you've already discussed this.

[@TheLifeofJoeLee]

Thanks for the feedback! While my car is under warranty, I prefer to leave the suspension stock. With the all season tires, there is a bit of slip when launching. However, after the initial wheel spin, the acceleration feels the same as summer tires when warm and much better when temps are below 40 degrees F (the summer tires slip a lot when pushed in the cold). Unfortunately, I don't have any instrumented measurements to compare.

[@styme314]

I just got the exact same rim and tire setup. Do you get any additional noise around 65 mph specifically, like a drone noise? Im assuming its due to the rim design and wind at a certain speed cause a natural harmonic sound.

[@TheLifeofJoeLee]

I like your taste in wheels :) . Yes, the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 4 tires are louder than the Pilot Sport 4S tires that came with the car at highway speeds. The tires from Tesla (they are special variant of the 4S designed for EVs) have foam around the inside of the tire to help reduce / dampen noise. The A/S 4 tires does not have that foam.

[@hobadahee]

Hey Joe -- do you recommend doing an alignment doing right away after switching wheel sizes? Is there harm in not doing an alignment right away? Thanks in advance, Happy Holidays!!

[@TheLifeofJoeLee]

I don't think changing wheel sizes necessitates a wheel alignment if the offsets are similar to the wheels that are being swapped out. However, if the tires were worn unevenly on the wheels that were removed then I recommend a wheel alignment so that you don't get the same uneven tire wear on the new tires. Happy Holidays!

[@killianz264]

I have a 2021 Model S Plaid. Doesn't it default to low mode? Whats the alternative?

[@TheLifeofJoeLee]

"default ride height to low" is a setting. If not selected, I found that the suspension stays in "medium" more often.

[@kcw9313]

If you want more life out of the rear tires, which are infamous for accelerated wear issues, you simply need adjustable camber arms. And it sounds like you don’t even know what your alignment specs are. Tesla considers -2.75 rear camber as in spec at medium height which at low mode is insanely insane since for those new to this stuff, neg camber increases as sus lowers. Without knowing the readings from the instrument panel, you’re flying blind. Running fatter, less performant tires on different sized wheels are just band aids to a problem that’s easily resolved since you’re not addressing RC.

[@TheLifeofJoeLee]

When I had initially replaced the tires, I had no intention of keeping the car for much longer so I did not invest in adjustable camber arms. At the time I was more concerned about the toe as I felt that it was off in the rear (the toe out was brought back in). Having lowered many of my cars and dealing with negative camber, I had not experience wear like like this from just negative camber alone. This was intended to be an update on the all season tires that I had installed last year as people had been asking for an update (e.g.., would I have the same wear as my original tires, has the range improved, etc.). I bought these wheels and tires to handle the cold temps and snow here, not as a bandaid to the tire wear. I agree that getting adjustable camber arms and setting the camber closer to zero would help. Is there a particular brand that you recommend?

[@kcw9313]

@@TheLifeofJoeLeelike you I come from 911 and m cars where modding the suspension is par for course by enthusiasts like us. Plaid buyers are a different crew so there’s a ton of frustration because they just don’t know (new to high perf vehicles) or they’re reading off Reddit on what to do (hot mess) or relying on Tesla service center reps (DJ no clues). N2itive is a solid brand. So is unplugged performance. Install a set and have a race alignment shop set the camber to -1.1 on low mode (something reasonable) and no more burning through pricey t2 ps4s rubber which is a very special sticky ev tire to begin with (more like a sport cup 2 hybrid). If you go with n2itive, ask for Don the owner for guidance. Btw, the track pack brakes and a high quality forged wheel makes the plaid even more special. I’m on a set of 21s that sit more flush to fenders reusing oem tires. Shaved off 90lbs approx of unsprung weight which is just one benefit out of a myriad of software and mechanical improvements. Good luck brotha!

[@TheLifeofJoeLee]

@@kcw9313Awesome! Thanks for the recommendation! The PS4S tires that I currently have on my Arachnids have less than 500 miles on them. I plan to put them them back on next Spring.

[@hobadahee]

I have N2itive arms and their lowering links on my 2023 MSP. It makes a tremendous difference. HIGHLY recommend so you don’t go through tires so much…

[@TheLifeofJoeLee]

@@hobadahee Thanks for the info!

[@snowfree52]

what about range/ efficiency compared to the arachnid in 21 ?

[@TheLifeofJoeLee]

I'm seeing about a 5% improvement in efficiency over the 21" Arachnids. Initially, it was worse but as the tires wore, the efficiency improved.

[@don.newlon]

Thanks for the follow up, great update. You mentioned your thoughts on noise. Any further thoughts on ride comfort relative to the 21's w/summer Michelins?

[@TheLifeofJoeLee]

Thank you! When I drove on the 21" Arachnids with the PS4S tires last weekend for the first time in almost a year, the first two thoughts that came to mind were that they were quieter and much firmer. The 20" setup is noticeably more comfortable.

[@usafmueller]

Great video, just ordered my plaid on 1-1-24. Question, are your wheels gloss black or satin?

[@TheLifeofJoeLee]

Thanks! The wheels are satin black.

[@MikkelsenR]

Do you think the wears on the summer tires might have something to do with the rims being 21"? And not the car being set to low.

[@TheLifeofJoeLee]

Some speculate that the compound of the OEM Michelin Pilot Sport 4Ss in combination with the extra negative camber in low mode contribute to the accelerated tire wear. Next Spring I'll be intentional to put the 21" Arachnids with the Pilot Sport 4S tires back on. Those tires have less than 500 miles on them since I swapped them out for the all season set up a week after I had them mounted (temps dropped into freezing) - it would be good to put them to use.

[@MikkelsenR]

@@TheLifeofJoeLee Will be interesting to see your findings there :)

[@gibblespascack1418]

When you did the pull back shot, the visual wear seems to be to the center. Are the tires over inflated for more efficiency? Or is it just an optical illusion?

[@TheLifeofJoeLee]

I measured 7/32nds using the 2 center ribs - the wear in the center is even/consistent with the tread towards the outside of the tire. When I first put the tires on, I over inflated them to 46 psi based on the service center's recommendation to combat the uneven tire wear. I was concerned about the adverse effects of the center wearing faster and the ride quality was much worse so I dropped back down to 40 psi.

[@gibblespascack1418]

Thank you for the update. I thought that my observation might be a little crazy because visual is not better than an actual measurement. Over inflation does end up with a rougher ride in my Passat too. @@TheLifeofJoeLee

[@GroupIII]

Hello, do you have any thoughts on Hankook ion tires?

[@TheLifeofJoeLee]

Hello, I haven't tried the Ion tires, but I've owned Hankook tires in the past and liked them. The Ion looks like a good all season tire designed for low noise.

[@Veterans-e2c]

I had 21s in my model S. The 21s to wear good at all. I went to a 20 inch wheel and tire package and tire in perfect. Tesla needs to stop selling the model S with 21s and sell with 20s. 21s are stupid heavy too. Forged 20s are a little lighter than the 19s you can get on the model S.

[@TheLifeofJoeLee]

Good to hear about your experience with a 20" wheel set up. The 21" Arachnids were surprisingly heavy when I took them off. I suppose that is a compromise for strength on a heavy car without going fully forged. Did you have a wheel alignment performed after you installed the 20" wheel set up? I'm curious if some cars have out of spec or too aggressive of a wheel alignment from the factory.

[@rob3812]

20" is the only way to go.

[@TheLifeofJoeLee]

I agree! That is why the track pack Zero-G wheels come in 20".

[@KevinKreienbrink-ue1gk]

You need to add traction or lack there of. Draggy would help with true scientific data. 60 - 0 performance almost tells you the best capable acceleration performance you can expect from the tires. I dont care to buy the longest lasting tire per se. I want performance which equates to safety. If my long lasting tires take 160 feet to stop my Tesla from 60mph then I will be eating someone's rear end in an emergency over a tire that can stop me at 120' from 60 mph. I have Goodyear Sports and while I have 6,000 miles on them and show very little wear, they do not perform very well at all on my Model S.

[@sskkkkiiii]

m2 update?

[@TheLifeofJoeLee]

I'm hoping to have a video on the M2 out this weekend. It has been drama free.