.223 Rem. When lighter, faster velocity is better than heavier, slower, higher BC projectiles.

* This video meets all KZbin content and safety requirements, including target shooting on "My own property and a neighbors rural ranch private property with (Permission in writing.)
Today I explain when using, made for Varmint hunting, lighter and higher velocity for caliber projectiles, maybe better than the newer trend to longer, heavier and higher BC projectiles. #HornadyVmax
Disclaimer: * There are no modifications of the Firearms, Ammunition or Optics shown in this video that is unnecessary to the proper and safe function of the firearm intended for Hunting or Target practice.
*Strict adherence to SAAMI, (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturing Institute) is maintained at all times.
*There are NO affiliations, or promotions, with any of the manufacturers of products shown in this video.
*All shooting is performed on my private, closed range or on a neighbors private property and (I have permission in writing.) All targets are placed with a safe barrier backstop.
*No firearms or ammunition are offered for sale and I am not promoting for sale any firearms or ammunition shown in this video or video description.
* These videos are strictly for educational and entertainment purposes only. Imitation or the use of anything demonstrated in my videos is done AT YOUR OWN RISK.

[@davidmartin7479]

Spot on Dave. I am old school too. Especially for my varmint handloads in 223 rem and 22-250 rem. Velocity and accuracy are king

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for your kind words and experiences and especially for your service.

[@hansjohannsen6722]

"This is my land, this is my gun. There is no one here, let's have fun" I love it and subbed. Thanks for sharing.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for the Sub and your comment here.

[@keithalbrecht4785]

I'm old school too!!! The old saying speed kills! My 22-250 Vel. 3800+fps. Prairie dog just go POP!!! 22-250 to a prairie dog is like 7mm Rem mag is on a deer! I shoot heavy 75gr. bullets when I'm shooting steel targets, anything else I use lighter bullets!!! Good video Dave!!!

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Keith, Thanks for your comment, but I have to ask are you shooting 75 grain bullets in your 22-250?

[@lapd114]

I totally agree..I also praise velocity.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for watching.

[@jeffbear7897]

Thank you dave. Enjoy your content. 50 grain vmax at 3300 fps is my prairie dog medicine. Out of a 20" ar custom i get very small groups when i do my part.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Sounds like you have a good combination. Thanks for your comment and for watching.

[@wendyheller8916]

Our .243 load is 70gr smk at 3475 for groundhog. The other is 95gr tipped smk to stretch out 800 which shoots very gd. Cold bore or hot bo shift of poi. The rifle is a stevens 200 .243 factory barrel with different stock and trigger.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

The 243 is a Great caliber/cartridge. Thanks for your comment and for watching.

[@bradcampbell7253]

Hot damn !! That is some darn good shooting 👍

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for watching and for your kind comment.

[@cw2a]

Morning Dave! I like mass more specifically diameter over speed. Two sides of a coin. But I agree for a varmint bullet speed is king. Speed also defeats hard targets better. Looks like some Warm Weather! Whats that critter over the barrel on the ridge? Yup ya cannot over stabilize, but you CAN over rotate!! I first saw this in a 22/250 & 40g Speer bullets. They never made impact!! Was shooting over a hay field and after a few shots you could see a distinctive "cone" in the grass showing bullets coming apart! Velocity should have been 3850-3900 fps.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Agree with all of what you said. I like to have the flattest trajectory possible for MPBR on the critter I am hunting. I match the caliber to the size, weight and expected distance to animal. Because I am not great at calculating distance past 1 football field, a flatter trajectory and less hold over/under lets my shot placement be more forgiving, especially when unknown shooting angles (uphill-downhill) are involved.

[@cw2a]

@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 100%. My first reactions are from a hunting use/experience stand. But even then, big game not small. BUT truth told I have many many more hours a year in woods on coyotes then anything else!! So In that arena 100% velocity and all it provides is tantamount to a successful result! 🙏🙏♥️🇺🇸♥️🇺🇸 STRONGER TOGETHER!!💪🏼💪🏼

[@rustynut1967]

For the 75 gr load data you must have used service rifle data. 556 load data shows most max charge velocities at 2800+ fps which would make the difference in your example negligible. Factory loaded 223 rem. 75 gr BTHP match also shows a velocity of 2790 fps. Good video.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Yes Service rifle data for a 20 inch barrel. Only the .223 Rem. shows data for a 50 grain Vmax. So the next data pages was for the 5.56 service rifle and more specifically for comparison the same powder. However even adding 150-200 fps to the 75 still shows a 5 inch farther drop than that of a 50 grain. Oh and Rusty, my 24" rifle was getting 3,450fps as shown in the video and not the 3,300 shown in Ballistics charts. LOL. Thanks for your correction good friend. I enjoy all of the comments from you, they keep me on my toes. LOL.

[@stephenhair5501]

Speed is King. I like your results. Thanks for sharing Dave.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for your comment and for watching.

[@edcombs7557]

Thanks Dave,very informative video

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for your kind words Ed.

[@primsolllineguy8689]

Hi Dave, Once again super video. I too am old school my garment hunting is with 204, 22-250 and 223 as well as 5.56. The 204 at 4000 fps is simply fantastic for this hunting. With my 223 however I like 1/8 twist with 69 grain projectiles. 22-250 still rocks with 50 grain. Based on what my age and inclination is I continue to gravitate to the 204. Both in bolt action and AR it is fast becoming my favorite. Honorable mention to 17 WSM as well. Follow up shots with heavy barrel 204 is simply outstanding. Once again great video, and well documented. My very best, Ira

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks Ira for your comment. Stay tunes for the .223 vs the 22-250...Although I expect you already know the outcome through your experience.

[@jsimons9630]

Terrific channel! Thanks for all of the great work.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for your kind words and for watching.

[@jimlerum]

Great job Dave. Thank you!

[@bobcatforever3485]

Dave. Another good video with good information. Also, great shooting with great groups. Thanks for sharing and take care.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks Bobcat. I enjoy your channel "Bobcat Forever"

[@bobcatforever3485]

@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 Thanks and I also enjoy Saddle Up Shootin.

[@relay93]

Thank you sir for sharing.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@davidmartin7479]

Great vid too.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@mikesauer7775]

I've been trying to find 3400fps accuracy node with 40gr Vmax in 223 Wilde with 18" match barrel. H335 got there, but not great groups in adverse conditions. Your video is right in my focus area. 50gr Speer SP varmint grouped great but only 3240fps

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

3,240 fps seems about right with an 18" barrel. It is estimated a velocity of 25-35 fps per inch of barrel, so 6" less barrel than my 24" shown in this video would be minus 150- 210 fps. Even so, you only have a 5% loss of velocity from 3,400fps and at 3,240 fps would make only a 11.2 inch drop at 300 yards assuming a 100 yard zero. So increase your zero to be 1 inch high at 100 yards and point of impact should be able to make up for the difference of an 18" barrel compared to 24". Thanks for your comment

[@mrsmel269]

good day down on the range Dave!!!

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Yes and Thank You.

[@PracticalAccuracy]

Nice presentation. I'm assuming you got the green light on this cut?

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Yes, thanks to your advice about slight changes and re upload. But I think you are right about the human reviewers being too subjective.

[@PracticalAccuracy]

@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 Glad it worked for you.

[@lutherprice2062]

Great video Dave, I was searching for barrel twists for heavier bullets, 80-90gr and found your video. I began shooting longer range, 500yds last year with my Rock River Arms 20” Varmint shooting 55gr Norma, approximately 3200fps and did very well. I later bought a Uintah Precision AR 223 bolt action and started shooting 75gr reloads, again doing pretty well out to 300-400yds but seemed to spread at 500yds. I think after watching your video I should start experimenting with 55-69gr bullets. One thing about this hobby, it doesn’t get boring. Again, thanks for a great video.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

55 grain for up to 300 yards. 62-64grain @3,100fps is a sweet spot to 400 yards indeed. After 500 yards the .223/5.56 is a crap shoot as the drop in elevation and the loss of energy is exponential. Thanks for watching.

[@lutherprice2062]

Thanks for the replay Dave, sounds like a little ladder testing in my future.

[@andy347495]

In a scenario like this I don't think anyone really argues that a heavy high BC bullet has any advantage over a light fast bullet at short ranges. The advantage that people talk about is at longer ranges with wind drift. You don't really talk about wind drift in your video either.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Yes Andy, my accuracy ability for hunting is limited to distances for reliable and repeatable kills. Each rifle/ cartridge is matched to the game and topography that I will be hunting and those distances are measured in Maximum point blank range. I admire long range competition shooters skills, but for me 500 yards and in, is the longest distance for my limited ability. Wind is too variable. Speed is a consistent measurement. Thanks for your comment and for watching.

[@johnh4957]

2 questions (I should change my name to armchair lurker as I don't hunt but do enjoy your vids) #1 would a all copper bullet prevent worry of over spinning(or are they too expensive/poor terminal effect?) #2 have you noticed if flyers are all related to difference in velocity if not any thoughts on tighter groups-congratulations on multiple single hole groups-seems you achieve that often!

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

I have no experience with all copper bullets. When they first came out was do more to political/environmental, rather than practical for the non lead states mandating them. I think others can chime in on lead free bullet experiences, Sorry. As far as flyers are concerned, there are 3 possible explanations. 1. Internal ballistics of the rifle ie; chamber dimensions and throat wear, as well as some rifles just plain shoot better than others. 2. Bullet/powder/primer/ case/ neck tension/ bullet seating depth are all variables that can effect precision and consistency (groups). 3. Shooter error inconsistency. That accounts for 51% of the time as in my case. Thanks for the question.

[@shanegibb997]

Great video Dave , very interesting ... I load 40 grain Nosler ballistic tips for my 223 for Fox shooting , deadly little loads ...

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Yes Shane they would be very effective. Is your barrel twist 1/12?

[@GideonMagoh]

I'm curious your twist rates as well. I'm wanting to build something that slings really light ones @ high speeds.

[@jeepmystic]

@@GideonMagoh l have a 20 inch 1 in 8 twist that shoots 40 grain V-max. bullets at about 3550 fps and consistently under 3/4'' at 100 yrds, so I don't think you need to be much slower in twist rate to get them stable.

[@GideonMagoh]

@@jeepmystic Ty for the reply. Is 100 the furthest you've tried so far?

[@andy347495]

Bryan litz from Applied ballistics also the ballistician for berger bullets has proven that a fast twist with a light bullet does not cause any stabilization issues. He's talked about his test numerous times.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks Andy for the information. I have never shot Berger bullets. I go by my own experiences from the recommendations made in the manuals Hornady, Nosler, Speer and Sierra. The consensus from these people and verified by my testing is, Faster twist for high velocity, heavy for caliber bullets and slower twist, for high velocity, light for caliber bullets. But shoot whatever works for you the best. Thanks for watching.

[@andy347495]

@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 I don't mean to argue or anything. I'm sure you've been doing this for a long time and may be stuck in your ways. I only want to pass along the correct information. I think its a disservice to new shooters to spread old theories that are wrong, and you should really check out what Bryan litz has done. I don't think you understand what I'm saying and I guess it doesn't matter whether you've shot berger bullets or not. Regardless of brand of bullet the twist rate has the same effect on the bullet. What I'm trying to say is that Brian litz has proven the theory that twist rate over stabilizes a bullet is wrong. If hornady, sierra, Speer, nosler, barnes, or any other manufacturer say otherwise they are wrong and I bet if you call them they will say it doesn't. They recommend slow twist for light bullets is because typically, they are shot at higher velocities and have a higher rpm that puts them at the limit of what they were designed for and they can come apart mid flight. If you have experienced better accuracy with heavier bullets than light bullets in faster twist, the assumption that the twist rate caused that should not be made and it's most likely that, that barrel does not like that powder, bullet, and/or primer combo. I have rifles and seen others that shoot light bullets in fast twist that I can not discern the group size between that of light and heavy bullets. They shot with great accuracy, meaning less than 1/2 moa for five shots. Now, if too fast of a twist rate was the sole contributor to inaccuracy then these bullets would not have shot accurately in these rifles. Ask yourself, in your guns with what you say is the appropriate twist rate, have you been able to get the same accuracy with every bullet powder you've tried in that gun?

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

@@andy347495 You said it; "They recommend slow twist for light bullets is because typically, they are shot at higher velocities and have a higher rpm that puts them at the limit of what they were designed for and they can come apart mid flight." And I agree.

[@andy347495]

@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 I would hope you agree with that lol. My comment is towards you saying a bullet becoming unstable wants it reaches a certain RPM and im saying that is not true. It has been proven, by science.

[@GideonMagoh]

​@@andy347495So you would say if one's goal is to sing really light ones @ high speeds, you don't need to worry if all you can get is a 1:8 or 1:7 twist?

[@clintonlayne9253]

Don Outstanding presentation. I just got off the phone with my hunting partner of 50 years . We were discussing Rate of twist . Can you assist me is a faster rate such as a 1-7 better for heavier Bullots and a 1 - 9 better for lighter Bullots?

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

It's not so much "Heavier bullets" but "Longer bullets to provide a higher Ballistic coefficient, that do better with a faster twist." kzbin.info/www/bejne/n4jSqKmBeat2mtE

[@chicorussianhammer]

Back tht charge off, or tht barrel will be All Grove. Keep it up, GOOD SHOOTIN!

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Yeap lowered by 1 full grain, because it is a ball powder and it will be hotter this summer. But this load is still below listed max.

[@chicorussianhammer]

I'd like to ask. what made you choose that chronograph? I'll keep watching. Keep shooting.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

@@chicorussianhammer Ease of use, mobility, consistency and high user ratings.

[@chicorussianhammer]

I hear that! Obviously I'm new to your channel, I've been catching up on your recent videos. I didn't mean to criticize your equipment . Keep shootin

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

@@chicorussianhammer kzbin.info/www/bejne/nZapd2N_ZZWIfNk

[@rossmcclure5618]

2.23k subscribers!! Lol

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for watching and your comment.

[@rustynut1967]

I'm sure he'll be up to 5.56k before long.

[@jernortje6265]

Hi Dave, on speed and lighter bullets, is there a reason why lighter bullets in 6.5 mm caliber is not available/manufactured, Thanks for content, Jer from South Africa

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Yes, probably. The Ballisticians at the bullet makers must have determined that lighter bullets in the 6.5mm cartridge class must not be stable. I suspect it is probably because of the 1/7 - 1/8 normal barrel twist rate for the 140 grain weight bullets in the 6.5mm rifles would over spin (RPM) lighter bullets and therefore make them unstable. Hello in South Africa.

[@Physics072]

What kind of velocity do you get with 24" and those high BC 53 gr vmaxes? Out of a 5.56 they are under loaded. NATO spec is 62,000 psi and load data for .223 is based on 55,000 psi.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Never tried 53 gn vmaxes. For Varmints 50gn, 55gn, 60gn, 62gn and 64gn only. Thanks for watching.

[@Physics072]

@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 The 53s are different in they have a really high BC for the weight. 2.90 BC. The 50gr is only .242 BC and the 55gr is .255. So you can get better velocity and BC with the 53gr. Its actually longer than the 55 Vmax they changed the shape for better BC.

[@Physics072]

You get no explosive value with 75gr just big heavy lots of drop but slow. 53gr Vmax much better choice in 223. People always want to shoot heavy even if its moving slow.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Agreed. If heavier bullets are needed. The Grendel and the 6mm ARC are better choices for the AR-15 platform.

[@jimlerum]

What is your density altitude Dave??

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

I don't know...Maybe a Meteorologist or a Navigator would know. LOL.

[@jimlerum]

How high above sea level are you Shooting Dave? Sorry, I don’t mean to make it complex.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

@@jimlerum 3,800 ft. That variable is in the displayed charts on the lower right. It maybe to small to see. Sorry about that.