235: The State of Solid State Batteries - QuantumScape Interview

[@KaeHwang]

A great interview! Dr. Holme is very smart and trustworthy in the field where many people and companies are making a lot of false claims and setting up unreasonable expectations of their work. Matt, it would be good if you can do more videos like this, interviewing other SSB developers and then one video comparing these SSB technologies. Many people are skeptical and under-educated in the field of SSB because there are too many non-sense media headlines. Perhaps you can help us be more educated.

[@chrism.1131]

One of his false claims is, a lot of energy must be stored on the vehicle. Recent test track experiments have proven that it is possible to put the energy in the road and transfer it to the vehicle through induction. Only a very small battery would be required, to get you from your garage to the electrified highway.

[@peekasa1355]

LOVED the interview!! When you’re enthusiastic about a potential new product, that you have put your personal capital at stake on, it’s important to remember that someone like Dr. Holme is ALWAYS a representative of a public company and is restricted from going too far with assertions and/or “facts” that have yet to be released to the public in a “proper” format. I tune in wanting to hear a specific company, a particular car, or an exact date of deployment. Only to realize that’s just not going to happen. But what does happen is that the “tone”, or excitement in the discussion processes a different tenor towards the future. Dr. Holme never acknowledged the timeline statements of 5-10 years to come. In fact he used terms intimating decidedly shorter timelines, like “acceleration” and “fairly quickly” to insinuate scale of timelines. I’m very excited after this interview for the next 12-18 months ahead for QS, PowerCo, and VW! Stay tuned!

[@gb59]

It’s easy to feel down with all of the FUD circulating, but this was great, “It’s not a matter of if, but when.”

[@adam_m757]

Great video, sounds like good progress on the tech! Curious to know when the interview with Tim actually took place?

[@iglapsu88]

Great interview Gentlemen. Thanks for sharing. Love your content.

[@antoinepageau8336]

A good question for your guest would have been, how will QS stay relevant when Chinese battery manufacturers are now able to make electric vehicles that charge from 5% to 80% in 10 minutes?

[@cw4948]

Other metrics on those batteries? As I understand it, Chinese current fast charge batteries sacrifice range. QS battery improves every category of consumer requests - range, charge time, operation temperature, cycle life, discharge/horsepower, and safety.

[@antoinepageau8336]

@@cw4948 Don't get me wrong, I hope QS makes it to market, I have $100k riding on them. That said we need to question them when faced with solutions that are already to market in China. Even if China sacrifices battery cycle life by charging so aggressively, if battery replacement cost is very low, that might be the answer.

[@speedturtle_andre]

Thanks Dr. Holme, thanks to the channel for sharing these insights. Remarkably honest and at the same time confidence-building information on progress and for me the message has been fully received, where things are naturally still a bit stuck and what the next steps would actually be.

[@TimRoach-hh7nf]

Super great news! Unless I missed it I don’t think he said what the watt hour per kilogram of the batteries. There was a lot of information but lifespan of the batteries wasn’t touched on either. Great progress but still lots of questions.

[@Timanda103]

On the quantumscape reddit channel we are trying to find out when this interview actually took place? It seems this interview may have been shortly after VW licensing deal? Can one of the producers please let us know?

[@StillTBD]

This interview happened near the beginning of August, so shortly after the announcement.

[@williamclark6466]

This is a very educational conversation. Thank you!

[@brucejankowitz4501]

great interview, As an early investor, I'm a bit curious about cost. I figured the initial solid state batteries are going to be pricy and will be used exclusively on high dollar vehicles for a while, at least till the tech matures. Do you or Tim see any different?

[@ianharcourtsmith]

To the question of joining the Renewable Energies industry - The answers of pick a specialty and become indispensable are as usual but they are not specific to the industry, where can we find the problems and solutions being worked on right now and as it was said - where specifically are the opportunities, especially for those curious or recent graduates? Thanks

[@shyamdevadas6099]

Wow...I just tripped upon this channel. (Just as I tripped upon Matt's channel.) Had no idea that there were two nerd brothers out there doing this. This is great!

[@MrKristianson]

Great interview!!

[@williamjanak2013]

Thank you for another great video. I always wondered for Hybrid vehicle why does the Gas engine seems to be needed to drive the wheels at some point. Instead of being use as an generator to power electric motors.

[@beatreuteler]

Possibly because the additional energy losses would be unwanted.

[@glenndennis6801]

Not really, a generator can be run at a constant speed and only when needed, making it somewhat more efficient. Whereas a propulsion engine has to run all of the time and at different speeds. If you have a battery to power the drive wheels and with regenerative braking, a lot less energy is needed to move the vehicle, so even with the dual system, it is still more efficient. Check out Edison Motors and their electric logging truck. Also the Ram new pickup truck is supposed to be this way.

[@rickbackous1041]

Exactly. Nissan and GM have had a production car with this tech. I don't get why this avenue isn't being pursued more.

[@conjoguam]

Great interview. We would like to know the scale in number of separators per week or MWh per week that Raptor and Cobra are capable of enabling?

[@peekasa1355]

@@conjoguam Cobra production is just shy of 100k separators per week. I interpret that to mean a 40hr. 5 day work week. Producing roughly 5 million per year. However, there are 4x that number in work hours per year, if Cobra was capable of running 24/7 w limited down time for reload, maintenance, adjustments, or repair. Giving you 20 million separators per year, per Cobra set-up. Raptor is 8k…1.6 million 24/7.

[@beatreuteler]

@@peekasa1355 Still it doesn't mean anything as it is unclear which capacity will be deleiverd using 1 separator.

[@peekasa1355]

@@beatreuteler exactly! Hence the LARGE range: ~5m-20m! Some answers are delivered WITH the expectation on the initiator/reader to understand the context, scale, and variability. As it’s also not that exciting to think of a single Cobra delivering anywhere from 1 to 40 batteries per shift per week. For a grand total of 50-2000 batteries per year!

[@beatreuteler]

@@peekasa1355 In fact, even if you had the information of exactly 2000 batteries a year it still wouldn't help at all as it is not specified what capacity a single battery will have.

[@conjoguam]

​@@peekasa1355What is the source for your info? Cobra is 10X the Wngineerling line and 3X Raptor. But, how did you get to number of separators per week? Also, they will horizontally scale by adding more Cobra equipment.

[@Parture]

Taking a little longer to get done, but it's real.

[@johnfithian-franks8276]

Hi Matt, I am subscribed to both your channels but noticed that I am not getting the undecided videos and only the ones with both of you. I did a search and confirmed that I am still subscribed to both channels and have the “all” button checked but I am still not getting Matt’s videos. I have unsubscribed and then re-subscribed but still no luck, I wonder if any of your other subscribers are in the same boat, or even better solved the problem, as I am not getting Matt’s channel I am interested to hear of any others with this problem.

[@StillTBD]

Thanks for letting me know. You aren’t alone (I’ve heard similar things from others). I’m not sure how or why it’s happening, but it may have something to do with the KZbin algorithm. Be sure to check your subscriptions tab from time to time to see if videos passed you by.

[@snookmeister55]

Good show fellows. SS is coming, eventually, first in planes and very expensive vehicles, I believe.

[@antoinepageau8336]

I recommend you reach out to Jordan Geisige from the limiting factor for interview guest. Also Jeff Dahn OC FRSC is a Professor in the Department of Physics & Atmospheric Science and the Department

[@DCfocal]

VW announced a battery plant here in Ontario, Canada sometime in 2026-2028. I can see them betting on QS/PowerCorp coming through with commercialization so that this plant will build SSB. The viability in the early run could be used in hybrids since the US market isn't 100% ready to go BEV especially with expensive SSB. Early SSB can be used in higher priced vehicles from the VW family (Bently, Porsche and Audi).

[@FiDelZarlar]

It’s only a pity that QS picked the wrong first partner to start producing SSBs. VW is currently bleeding lethally and giving up ramping up EVs… wrong choice!

[@JoeCuv]

Thanks for the insight into where the solid state field is heading, and like everything in this universe it is more complicated than binary choices and binary outcomes.

[@benholdaway7570]

VW has been partnering with QS for many years.

[@kentma7516]

Great interview but for increasing knowledge on the tech, nothing to do with how close are they to commercilization

[@hagechin]

Sounds like these solid state batteries could take a few years to be made commercially and profitably at scale by their partners, unless I’m mistaken.

[@ichigokurosaki2838]

Who cares about the marketing names. Energy density, range, changing speed, life of battery and reliability only matters.

[@PETERJOHN101]

Generally, SSB should deliver 50% greater range over LFP, while charging speed should drop by half.

[@darwinboor1300]

Thanks gentlemen. It isn't cost efficient or energy efficient to build AI into every machine. The field of AI machine control is also about to explode and may have far more openings for human engineers. PS: Which battery technology works best in a vacuum or under high pressure? Which technology is easiest to protect from environmental extremes?

[@mv80401]

VW badly needs a win given their huge debt and loss of market share. Hopefully this collaboration with QuantumScape and commercialization comes fast enough. In some ways the 'race' metaphor still applies because other chemistries already in mass production are able to swap out components without (much) retooling, at which point the win on cost. No one is standing still.

[@snookmeister55]

It's difficult to turn a big ship and a battery that is probably years from being in a VW may not help them. Their problems are many.

[@PETERJOHN101]

​@@snookmeister55 If VW forms a partnership with Tesla over the coming year they have a chance, most likely they will become the EU version of GM.

[@snookmeister55]

@PETERJOHN101 . Tesla has no need for anything VW has. Don't see that happening.

[@stevehenze8]

when are we going to get the nuclear battery

[@PETERJOHN101]

Fusion is not a storage medium, it's used for power generation. To the extent our grid is powered by nuclear, batteries are already being charged by atomic energy. Hope that helps.

[@cascaderetriever7618]

No.

[@hsingchen321]

I have followed SSB development closely. This is the best video I have listened to about the the overview of SSB and QS status. Essentially QS has transferred mass production to VW. So far only Toyota and QS have announced commercialization of SSB schedule, 2027 - 2028. Both CATL and BYD are behind by 2 - 3 years. Tesla is not in SSB game. It depends on CATL improved Li ion batteries which still catches fire. Elon Musk is missing the boat.

[@Afgfgjkkkl]

What?? the company has not made any public updates on the progress of Raptor, in fact they have made no updates at all regarding their B sample produced by Raptor which is a year over due and Tim comes on to say Raptor and Cobra will be completed by year end??? Ground shattering news and they keep it a secret... Somethings missing, I think Tim has checked out and is confusing Raptor and Cobra and they are hoping Raptor is operational by year end since they sated in 2022 they wanted it operational by year end of 2023 now 2024

[@cascaderetriever7618]

Once it scales this goes parabolic

[@rogerterry5013]

what about electric planes? This must impact the prospects of those.

[@tylerhill9483]

Whats concerning to me is how these execs at QuantumScape are selling tons of stock every month including Dr. Holmes here, even though the stock is trading at near record lows. Singh Jagdeep has been selling $1.5 million worth of stock every month. If they were so confident in the future of QS they wouldn't be selling so much, if they were so confident in the future they would actually be buying more stock at these record low levels. How many people need $1.5 million per month to live on? Listen to what they have to say with a grain of salt, but watch what they are doing with more earnest attention. Money speaks louder than words. Money shows peoples true convictions.

[@cw4948]

They are selling a low single digit percentage of their total available shares. That still projects confidence to me. They also get refreshed with new shares per compensation or performance every year. Think of the shares they’ve sold as a percentage of their own perceived chance of failure (more or Less). They’re holding over 90% of their shares. So at worst they are guessing a single digit chance of failure.

[@lindseyhatfield9017]

I am afraid my "LIKE" button has disappeared from the interface?

[@mikefredrick191]

I'm in the airline industry where lithium battery will catch fire in the baggage holds of air planes. Any updates on batteries that won't catch fire for wheel chairs, power banks, power tools, and phones?

[@beatreuteler]

Basically the update is: Lithium Ion batteries don't catch fire even it happened at times.

[@snookmeister55]

Yeah the planes can barely take off without fighting a fire. Big problem not.

[@DylanFkinGuenther]

They had some testing I believe posted on their yt channel about thermal runaway. But they should be much more stable and if ignited they dont have the electorlyte liquid from the anode so less fuel

[@totytete659]

wh/kg ?'?? ...

[@cw4948]

301 wh/kg 844 wh/L

[@PETERJOHN101]

No hint regarding specs like range, energy density, charge up times, thermal demands, this was disappointing.

[@cw4948]

301 Wh/kg 844 Wh/L, 10-80% charge in 12min at 25 deg C, discharge up to 10C or 1000hp.

[@brucey5585]

When will we get these batteries to test in home solar. I can say that electric car is pointless if the electric companies increase my electricity bill above oil price.

[@Cruise1966]

They’ll have energy storage as well

[@hoffinger]

The maintenance costs on ICE would make a big monetary difference. Not having air pollution is another factor. Have someone start your car while you smell your exhaust.

[@beatreuteler]

In my opinion it is the wrong question. All the main advantages this technology has to offer (fast charging, high power, high energy) are all that much less important in home storage. So why should such a company waste time and money to try and address a market that can as well be addressed by other more simple products?

[@DavidHumeGoat]

It will take decades for this to hit the market. Nothing to get excited about.

[@Babarudra]

this was an ok interview. Maybe I missed something somewhere but this seemed to be very into the business aspect of it and a lot less about what they are doing that's different. Business geek, I am not, but this channel isn't here just for me. See you next week!

[@StillTBD]

Yes, this conversation was more focused on the business update roll out news than diving into the technical details. I’m working on getting more interviews for the podcast. Some will be more technical, while others will be more business and adoption focused. Hopefully I can find a good balance for you.

[@Babarudra]

@@StillTBD You guys make great content. Not everything is going to be for everyone, and that's ok. I just gave my 2¢, not looking for you to make any changes for me. Judging by the rest of the comments, people liked it. Just keep doing what you're doing! :-)

[@snookmeister55]

I haven't heard a word yet about tests outside of a lab. They have a long way to go. Manufacturing is difficult and doing it profitably is excruciating, or so I've heard. I wish them well and soon.

[@xlargetophat]

Batteries are old news, perpetual wheels are the big buzzz

[@flutieflambert]

If we had self driving roads that inductively charged car batteries cars would only need to carry a little energy and reducing battery size would improve safety. The more self driving roads we have, the smaller the car batteries can be, the greater the safety.

[@beatreuteler]

That is correct and some developments are underways to achieve that, however I do believe that this will be limited to certain very urban areas. When otherwise the miles and miles of such roads will be too expensive and wheather issues like snow coverage etc. may be an issue.

[@flutieflambert]

@@beatreuteler the other problematic issue of a privatized market is that one car needs to accomplish multiple functions, ie, short trips with one person and long trips with the family plus luggage and dogs. If we socialized the car market, then we could design different cars with different batteries depending on each individual use case, and then consumers could choose which vehicle suited their individual needs for each individual trip. That would increase efficiency by several orders of magnitude especially considering that 95% of privatized cars are parked. If we socialized cars we could reduce the fleet by 90%.

[@beatreuteler]

@@flutieflambert Again, very correct. On the other hand a lot of efforts for socialized car usage (car sharing etc.) have been invested so far and comparably little success is shown. And a global car market of 10% compared to today is not what car makers are hoping for ;-))

[@ChicagoBob123]

QS is tanking in the stock market and running out of operating capitol. They need to produce or go bust. My guess is they will just go bust

[@brucey5585]

😂they started at $140 per share and used all those money with no result. If this don't work then they will got bust.

[@Cruise1966]

@@brucey5585explain the no results?

[@waynerussell6401]

VW is also going bust. Their previous battery partners like Northvolt have been unable to produce commercial quantities. Now they are desperately outsourcing although the most indebted and worst run Mega-company in the World, by spending 180B euros into many companies for software and BEV development including Rivian and XPeng. I would not call them battery or investment 'experts'! JB when with Tesla, said as the biggest consumer of LiIon batteries, they would take any and all battery technologies that any one developed, if they would submit a working sample for evaluation. No one has including QuantumScape.

[@Cruise1966]

@@waynerussell6401 like I told the other guy you guys know nothing

[@xlargetophat]

VW can't sell a VW in Germany.

[@NicholasWilliams-h3j]

This is cool stuff, that would be super awesome to develop a entertainment sector for sustainable tech conversation, just like machine learning street talk makes machine learning topics fun and explosive. It may require people like Tim to make more appearances on peoples channels, and those channels leverage digital art and music to draw attention, develop the content in a way where it's like a plot, and the plot twist are the things that can go wrong with a specific tech (technical problems), and possible solutions to those technical problems.