$250 V.S. $10,000 Dive Watch: Rolex Submariner & San Martin

[@Mackster248]

99% of public don't even look nor care what one is wearing. For the 1% that do, unless they are a snob, also don't care if it's a SM or Rolex. Wear what makes you happy and one that you can afford. That's the best thing about brands like San Martin. It makes watches that look close enough to Rolex more accessible for the general public.

[@Dirtywesterner]

I have a hard time telling one from the other w/out my readers😂

[@diemes5463]

wear neither and avoid getting robbed

[@Bob_Smith19]

@@diemes5463Carry and protect yourself and loved ones.

[@Mackster248]

@@diemes5463 Depends where you live I suppose. I’m in Los Angeles and haven’t had issue. But YMMV.

[@WesternBachelor]

The difference between a $50.00 casio duro and a $10k dive watch is that you will actually dive with the $50.00 casio duro because you won't be afraid to break or lose it.

[@LagerPetrol409]

A very well balanced , honest and unbiased review , much appreciated. All the best with the guest room and the future addition to your family .

[@chrishennemeyer7276]

A thoughtful, sensible comparison. Thanks. Personally I've split the difference (not literally) by going with a Ginault Ocean Rover II. Controversy aside, it has tremendous fit and finish, sublime bezel action, a bracelet that's as good as the Rolex glide-lock, and astonishing accuracy. For $900 used.

[@southbrit]

Good move, I am eyeing one at the mo, purely because they are interesting and extremely well made. I have a few of the 'real' thing but hey...Ginault are an interesting alternative!

[@chrishennemeyer7276]

@@southbrit Smart move! I have a Rolex, Breitling, and a few Omegas, but dollar for dollar the Ginault gives me a great deal of joy.

[@etebol]

Buying a motorcycle and a San Martin.

[@lazyrider6918]

The difference between these two watches is that if you were to lose them at the bottom of the ocean, only one would haunt you for the rest of your life. THERE IS NO COMPARISON.

[@Mackster248]

You should do a comparison with the Ginault Ocean Rover 2.5 with your Sub. I'd be interested in that comparison.

[@shai5564]

I would enjoy that comparison, + the monta oceanking v3!

[@benjaminb.p.7551]

Obviously Rolex is a much better watch, besides the fact that making that caliber 3135 involves a large investment, top-quality materials, finishes, constant research into new components, higher certification than COSC... But the question is: Is Rolex 10,000 times better than San Martin?

[@connorvickery3373]

Your maths is terrible

[@TimeBaum]

Not saying that the San Martin isn't a good value but I really hate homage watches. I'd much rather grab a unique looking Seiko before touching an homage piece. If a sub is your grail then you should save up for it and then it will be even more special when you can finally afford it. Otherwise there are plenty of unique designed watches at good prices.

[@Yakoz25]

You can always grab a San Martin original design. You can’t find a 250 Seiko that spec-wise is better than a San Martin of the same price.

[@watchdogpodcast239]

Couldn't agree with this more. I'm actually disappointed that Marc is even selling these. Great business decision of course, along with his own line of watches that are often homages, but I'm now less inclined to buy from LIW

[@jerryglasses]

This isn't a homage. It's a knockoff. Homages add their own element to make it distinct. Knockoffs are copies which just change the logo. Im ok with homages but don't like knockoffs.

[@BlightedJosh]

​@@jerryglassesLiterally every big watch brand has copied some others watches. It is what it is.

[@jerryglasses]

@@BlightedJosh not sure I get your point. In all aspects of life, new things build upon previous things. There is very little true originality but one can certainly accept that copying is different that building upon. If money was no object would you rather have a real Picasso or a print? The answer is obvious so that means originality has value. How much is up to the person, but it's not zero.

[@gz7587]

I have 2 San Martin sn004, the 38mm blackbay copies, one in black and one in blue. They are some of my absolute favourite watches. They are quite perfect and they make it hard to wear anything else.

[@Simple_Jack82]

I have the black one. I enjoy it. I have had 2 occasions where it was mistakes for a real black bay and once for a Rolex. Has this happened to you? Despite liking the watch, I hate the feeling I get when this happens.

[@gz7587]

@Simple_Jack82 noone ever commented on it that I recall

[@kresimirpleic]

With Rolex, you pay for Swiss manufacturing and assembly (Rolex are the most affordable watches manufactured entirely in Switzerland), third party testing (COSC), quality movements with tight tolerances and good shock resistance that will be serviceable for as long as Rolex exists, quality control, servicing logistics, global customer aftersale support logistics, ADs have to be paid, brand name, design, engineering, R&D, marketing, Swiss work force from the cleaner to the CEO, facility development and maintenance and all the other expenses of running a high profile global business. You'll be able to service your Rolex in 30 years. You don't know if San Martin will have rubber gaskets available for this particular model in 10 years let alone 30. With San Martin you don't even know if they are making a profit yet. It is very common for new companies to do business losing money for a good decade or more (take a look at Christopher Ward) before they start turning a profit, and then they bump their prices to where they have to be to stay in business. And also, with Rolex you know for sure everybody who works there in any capacity is getting paid. There's more to a product than just the product itself.

[@_Stav_]

Fair enough but sponsorships for tournaments and paid celebrities and all the marketing make up much more of the prince than all the things you mentioned.

[@kresimirpleic]

@_Stav_ I don't have access to their books obviously, but I absolutely don't believe they spend more on marketing than everything else. Their marketing is simple. Ads and contracts. The vast majority of the hype is created by the social media free of charge.

[@ThePedroDB]

You can justify it all you want but £10K+ for a watch is obscene. All because of 'clever marketing' and some individuals need for perceived status

[@kresimirpleic]

@@ThePedroDB I'm not justifying it. It is what it is. Some people wear a Rolex. I wear a Seiko. I'm fine with what I have and have no need to buy what I can't afford.

[@justice5040]

Why care for caskets after 10 years? Its 250 dollars

[@paulgardner6388]

Any chance you will do a video on the bedroom makeover?

[@Dirtywesterner]

I have both, and I love them both; but my Rolex is also going to last forever and is a great investment -the San Martin is my go to for travel and rough stuff but it will start showing the shortcuts in it’s construction within 3 years ,like the other ones I have.Usually the bezel action craps the bed first but the nh35 is not far off.. I enjoyed the video and you have some good points

[@gavinwhite9743]

Buy what makes you happy. The big difference is, people recognise Rolex, and know it’s posh. Most of the time both will do the same job. I own a neo vintage 14060 sub as a daily, and whilst I love it, it’s also kinda ordinary now? Bought the birth year of my son, it’s 20 years old, and like a pair of old shoes, comfortable. Whilst special at the time, they just become the norm. The only difference really is, would you buy a San Martin for a special occasion. Probably not. But I wear a Casio to the beach, I have a longines dress watch, and a speedy for the office. But honestly, I look at my stuff, and 99% is worthless in 10 years time. I have two sons, and beyond cash, the only stuff of mine they want to inherit is my watches.

[@Greysprunkiyay]

Wearing a Rolex is beyond ordinary by now. They’ve literally sold hundreds of thousands of Subs at this point. It’s a timeless design but $10K is absurd.

[@paulkukula6541]

Enjoyed the review. SAN Martin put out a great product for the money. Sizing,finishing & feel good factor are all there.

[@ViolinistWilliam]

Fantastic video. Loved it. Truth is, it’s about how the watch makes you feel, my 114060 makes me feel like I accomplished my goal. My Islander makes me feel like a got a deal. Very, very different feelings.

[@goldfools5445]

I have this SanMartin, I bought it with the option of Milsub sword hands. I think the more surface area on the hands give a slightly different aesthetic. It’s great quality and was very affordable.

[@cjgent]

@3:58 "no once cares if their watch gains or loses 20 seconds a day". Some people do. I have a Seiko Spring Drive that gains 1 second per WEEK. I used to be in your infant phase of "I swap my watch everyday, who cares it it loses 20 seconds."

[@hiemabedrog]

Do this exact comparison with the Sugess Seaman, it's an even closer looking Homage.

[@shadowsocks7472]

The price gap comes from everything you mentioned and also manufacturing and paying someone in Switzerland vs Hong Kong is drastically different.

[@Pitchman6]

Congrats on the new baby! I bet the wearing experience is another key thing us viewers are missing. I can imagine how the clangy bracelet on the San Martin feels (similar to Seiko)

[@flabchunky3068]

This review is great. Honesty is the most important thing to me. Subbed 👍🏼

[@HarrisonElmore]

Appreciate it!

[@caseyzaft6734]

That Submariner is perfection. Crazy you have a watch channel and it took you 3.5yrs to get the call. Unreal.

[@jeremybrees]

LOVED your comment between 5:55 and 6:00... someone needed to say it. Thank you.

[@Yakoz25]

Very honest review! Thank you!

[@JasonJohnson-bc4jy]

Congrats on the new baby announcement! I think some people place too much value on bequeathing stuff to children, or perhaps they justify their purchase using that logic. I think if my Dad bequeathed a watch he loved to me, it would have same value (priceless) to me whether it said Rolex or Timex on the dial. Does the market value of the watch really matter on a priceless sentimental watch you would never sell? Bottom line, buy what you like and if your kids see that watch as meaningful to you, it will likely be meaningful to them when you are gone.

[@joewhite6875]

The main difference is one is an actual original design, the other a copy.

[@jakubircow6875]

These are nice but the OMEGA Seamaster is better made and is also more affordable than the Rolex

[@SM-io8ol]

Thank you for an honest review.

[@TheRealBruceLee]

San Martin actually have another model that looks even more similar - the minute tracks on the bezel on this one is different more of a mill sub.

[@Brittonmadcap]

I only have two watches. They’re worn pretty evenly in rotation. It would drive me insane if they lost 40 seconds a day. I guess I need to buy more watches 😂

[@butapioka]

San martin is an absolute value for money

[@c-grunt6853]

The hands and hour indices of the Sub probably cost more than the San Martin.

[@beanwithbaconmegarocket]

I'm a huge fan of budget watches. But I just can't buy anything that's a direct rip-off. Taking design cues from classic designs or even doing a close homage I can live with, but just ripping off the design / artwork of someone else is bullshit imo. San Martin makes a lot of nice watches with their own designs--get one of those.

[@beanwithbaconmegarocket]

Tbqh I lost respect for Mark from Long Island Watch for selling fakes like this. Nothing wrong with many of his Islander designs or many of the other SM designs but a ripoff is a ripoff.

[@AgungBagus-x7v]

Why you hurt? Rolex not losing their customer, and also marc just doing his bussiness from numbers which is don't lie. You can't judge others and set the standart only by your opinion and your personal taste. Learn a real life lesson. Not everyone lucky enough and would spend a big amount of money for the watch. There's a priority maybe their kids, school,living, food etc. Don't force other "buy casio, seiko, citizen and many microband that has original design bla bla bla! I get it. Just stop. It's not your money. Some people just like the design and that's it! Not for flexing and not to pretend it's rolex! I'm not a fan of homages watch either, but hey grow up!

[@beanwithbaconmegarocket]

@@AgungBagus-x7v I like that idea that budget brands could take some of the wind out of Rolex and force them into less ridiculous prices. But fakes are bad for any market. It's why we have intellectual property rights in the United States. Buy from Marc if you like, he's a nice guy, but I just don't believe in supporting fakes. I want a Ferrari, but I can't afford a Ferrari. Boo effing hoo. It's not like if I see someone with a SM fake I'm going to insult them. I wouldn't say a thing. But I still think it's stupid.

[@mbrackmann8]

@@beanwithbaconmegarocketit’s not a fake. That’s where your argument disintegrates. It would be a fake if it said Rolex on the dial, but it doesn’t. It’s a homage by definition.

[@beanwithbaconmegarocket]

@@mbrackmann8 tomayto tomahto

[@ThePedroDB]

I own a Black £60 GBP Steeldive Sub homage and the amount of people that comment on it positively (presumably thinking it's a Rolex) is far greater than I would ever have imagined. Even a guy with a genuine Rolex Sub remarked on it one day. I'm quite open about what brand etc. my watch is. I'm not trying to con anyone. The Rolex owner made a direct comparison with his watch and was either being overly kind/generous with his comments or thought it was a decent homage. I'm just not interested in spending £10K+ on a wristwatch...

[@alksjda]

both tell time. the only difference is one will last a few years and one would last a few generations.

[@plasmathunderdx]

I was ready to buy a rolex sub but was put on a waiting list. Now I'm changing my purchase to Omega seamaster and speedmasters. Maybe I'll get the San Martin to tide my sub fixation until I'm able to get a real one

[@sinjinadams2862]

San Martin is a very nice watch but Cronos would have been a better comparison. It has the same glide lock clasp.

[@youpluman]

AD uses 316L stainless steel and Rolex uses 904L, arent the same.

[@Greysprunkiyay]

I think you mean 904L and yes there are budget brands that use 904L steel as well. It’s not an expensive alloy at all but I’m assuming you though it was since Rolex uses lol

[@tomislavp1352]

The most striking difference lies in the dial-it's all about the details! Consider the logo, the choice of font, the style and size of that font, the placement of each element, the wording, and even the spacing. This is where Chinese homages/copies fall short compared to the elegance of established brands and unique microbrands. They may have watch faces, but they lack that distinctive charm and character. Just my humble opinion, of course! 😊

[@c-grunt6853]

Not to mention the logo, indices, and hands are all made of gold

[@butapioka]

Love and respect the honesty. A lot of watch snobs will look down on these chinese watches without testing them first. Rolex sells a story and history, thats it. Thats the difference

[@diemes5463]

The Rolex is overall a better made watch with better specs. I'm never going to buy one but I won't fool myself into thinking my Seiko is 'the same' as a Rolex.

[@deskdiversthlm]

Understand the attempt to make a "balanced" video. But let's agree, the comfort and the quality is incomparable. To continue to harp on the price point and the success factor is simply not true. Is Rolex the best of all brands? Probably not. But considering Rolex vertical integration and innovation in its manufacturing and components is very different from that of San Martin or others. Let's also see how well the SM performs ten or twenty years from now. Last but not least these type of "hommage" watches is nothing but pure theivery and piggy backing on the original. And seriously, this value for money thing has nothing to do with watch collecting.

[@ListenToPowerViolence]

The Sub is the better deal for those four letters on the dial.

[@Goose619]

Dude the Murphy bed is awesome! I definitely need that in my office. I’d probably securely attach some artwork on it to keep it from looking so bland.

[@HarrisonElmore]

Planning on it! just finished it about a week ago

[@rafaelmtoledo]

San Martin is the way

[@Simple_Jack82]

I wore my San Martin Black Bay wannabe last night. Someone asked me about my Rolex. I said naw bro, It's just some bull$hit. He doubled down and kept calling it a Rolex. On wrist, you can barely tell the difference. It just feels icky when someone makes the mistake.

[@scollyutube]

There's no platinum or white gold in the San Martin either..... I have 4 San Martins and all run slow which is annoying and they should be regulated better than that for $250. My Submariner is a second a day fast, that's worth it and important to me.

[@mw1262]

Just throwing it out there incase anybody else sees this and is looking for an (IMO) even better No Date Sub Homage - check out Chronos option. They have all the same spec as the San Martin, how also a Glidelock clasp (that is a bit firm, but works great) and I found the bezel action to be fantastic ~7.5/10 bezel. My Tudor BB58 is more like a 9/10. SMP300 like a 6/10.

[@edwardkeeter762]

Let's assume the Rolex lasts for a century, and let's ignore the very expensive routine maintenance that needs to be performed on it. While the San Martin is almost certainly a 20 year+ watch (probably a lot more than that). I can buy 33 San Martins for the cost of one Rolex 33 watches x 20 years = 660 years. As for accuracy, it's 2024. Anyone who requires dead-on accuracy is going with a digital quartz watch. If you still love analogue, and you want a brand/model with some visual panache and some history behind it, the $400 Bulova Lunar Pilot will obliterate anything Rolex makes in terms of accuracy. For that matter, my $90 G-Shock that checks in by radio with the atomic clock in Colorado every midnight will obliterate either of them. Personally, I'll stick with my neigh-indestructible, ISO 6425-compliant, beast-of-a-watch: the Helm Vanuatu.

[@TealBeretta]

Studio looks great sir.

[@HarrisonElmore]

Thank you kindly

[@diemes5463]

I'd rather have an original, lower-end watch or a vintage watch than a 'homage', especially for something so generic as a stainless steel diver.

[@Oh-morice]

Hi, I don't agree. some people actually do care (a lot) about accuracy of the watch especially as a daily wearer. +15/-15seconds a day makes around 8 minutes per month that's a lot. Considering you set the date every two months that would set if off for at least 16 minutes before adjusting. That rolex movement also has superior engineering, a freesprung balance only seen in high-end watchmaking and mine runs withing +1/-1 sec as a daily. Also if you are financially sound, why would you even bother with a san martin submariner homage? My rolex is my daily watch and something else goes on the wrist for other occasions. SM is what it is. NH35 in a homage sub case.

[@RockerfellerRothchild1776]

No links to watch at all lol

[@flyguy1359]

Personally, I buy watches that I think look good, are well made and tell the time. That's it. Couldn't care less about brand perception, heritage, which tennis tournament they sponsor...anything more than a cheap Casio is just man-jewellery after all? My Grail was always the Grand Seiko diver, then San Martin released their version of it so I bought that. After 4 years it still looks like new, is super accurate and now im not bothered about the GS anymore. 🙂

[@jspeakman53]

Everytime I wore a Rolex which I had spent my hard earned cash on, it would make me feel 'what a mug'!

[@jerryglasses]

Good vid but so over these comparisons. People who buy these extremes are buying watches for different reasons and both are valid. It all comes down to what you think a wristwatch is. Timekeeper vs Jewelery. For me, watches are 100% jewelry.

[@crazed1x]

Good review. San Martin might be made well, but it’s a complete ripoff with none of its own style or heritage. Take the the money spent on a the fake and buy a seiko or citizen.

[@beanwithbaconmegarocket]

Agreed, the San Martin is trash (even tho it's well built). I have a Citizen NB1050-59E that I bought brand new off chrono24 for $350. Has Oyster Perpeutal vibes and a great 4hz movement. Great budget GADA watch.

[@rafaelmtoledo]

I have Citizen, SM watches and some Swiss watches (Omega, Oris, TAG Heuer...). SM watches are much better built than Citizen and have been releasing their own design lately

[@beanwithbaconmegarocket]

@@rafaelmtoledo Depends on the Citizen and the SM. A lot of Citizen watches also use better movements than the NH35 workhorse.

[@rafaelmtoledo]

@@beanwithbaconmegarocket A $300 Citizen will be nowhere close in quality to a $300 SM...

[@beanwithbaconmegarocket]

@@rafaelmtoledo sure thing, bud.

[@ditmerk]

Could you share more about the bed project? 🙂

[@Keedaaaaaaaaa]

Brand name, after sales service, Brand precence is what you pay for.. I guess..

[@googlesearches240]

I respectfully disagree with the premise the the watches are similar. Aside from San Martin clearly ripping off the Sub look (which is fine), they’re drastically different. The movement in the Rolex is wildly different to an NH35A. The materials used in the NH35A are simply no comparison whatsoever to the Sub. The 18 carat white gold hands and indices on the sub, the platinum in the bezel, the anti magnetic spring… etc Then the tight tolerances of the Sub. The 904L stainless steel etc. Let me be clear: the San Martin is exceptional value and very good quality, but Rolex is a colossal jump up in terms of quality, especially the quality of the movement. Aside a sub owner, I fully respect the San Martin and would definitely recommend them. But they’re definitely not comparable in terms of quality. Is the Sub overpriced? Absolutely yes. But that’s a different debate.

[@jaredstephenson6468]

Isn't the minute hand pencil-style? Sword is more like an elongated diamond, isn't it? I liked the little peek into your personal life. Congratulations...you and Mike are BY FAR my favorite watch-content KZbin creators.

[@tvo6453]

For the most part, using “sword” is correct…what you’re referring to is “Plongeur style” watch hand.

[@nevgeniev]

Have exactly that SM model. Bricked in 4m support doesn't exist. NEVER again. It's more of a scam than a watch

[@johnd-xd9sn]

the problem with this San Martin is that its a design copy of a legendary diver. Its an insult to watch collectors to see this kind of design thievery. This robbery in design is like a fake Mona Lisa but they just didnt sign the painting "Da Vinci" on the canvass and instead tucked their label on the dial and clasp. This should never make its way into any respectable collector's watch case.

[@tonydilucente2342]

San Martin is THE GREATEST WATCH EVER !!!!!!

[@ChrisAlvarezAlvarezImaging]

Yeah, if you take a dispassionate 10,000 ft view, they're both metal mechanical devices that display the time. The only objective difference is that we have decided as a group that only one of them retains and increases in monetary value.

[@springbay1]

I would never buy the Rolex at its current price point, but I would never buy the San Martin either because of the ghost date. If San Martin was a serious watch brand, they would have put a NH38 or even better a Miyota 9039 in their watch, and I would consider them. But as for now, they are just another Chinese factory brand pushing new models in time for every next Ali Express sale.

[@plasmathunderdx]

Gonna get this and an Omega Seamaster instead haha

[@famosguider205]

Congratulations brother on your new child. Blessings to you and your family. Great idea for the new guest room slash studio! Thanks for another interesting video that sparks great discussions. I love your content, been subscribed for a while. I smashed like as soon as you,started talking sir!

[@HarrisonElmore]

Thank you very much! Appreciate it!

[@borjastick]

I have been lucky enough to own a few Rolexes over the years along with other nice brands such as Tudor and Breitling. All very nice they were too. Recently I bought the new San Martin SN0144GX, the very blue dial for just about 290 euros here in France. What struck me the most was how well finished it is and how comfy to wear etc. Then it struck me that these Chinese brands have really bridged the gap between far east crap, which they used to be, and European quality. I also own a super clone fake Rolex Submariner which cost me just 500 US. That watch is truly astonishingly good and it came out of China. San Martin are making some very very good pieces now and well worth buying or at least trying. I have just this afternoon ordered a new SM watch for just 300 euros.

[@u.u.u9969]

Yes it's worth the 10K because it's worth more after you buy it.

[@appleman29]

if you're only into watches for investment, ur in the wrong place. Also wrong mindset....

[@ThePedroDB]

Sorry to 'burst your bubble' but the value of watches on the Grey Market is on the decline and has been for some time

[@fatoni698]

10k invested would be 40ish thousand (minimum) after 20 years. The Rolex would maybe be worth 12k, likely less. They're not a good investment, and that is the wrong mindset entirely.

[@u.u.u9969]

Is buying a watch that holds its value worth it? Yes

[@appleman29]

@@u.u.u9969 ur mindset with watches is dumb. Put ur money elsewhere

[@behonestwithyourself3718]

So the Rolex is a rip off. Id pay maybe 4-5k for the Rolex. But after seeing this 10k or over is too much.

[@threethrushes]

Currently wearing an Ollech/Wajs C-1000 MkII w/ 1,000M WR. Of course, that's child's play compared to my Sinn UX S with a depth rating of 5,000M WR.

[@DigitalPRCourses]

Have some self respect and self control. Plenty of cheap watches that are original and classic whilst you save up for something that is a milestone and something to aspire to if watches are your “thing”. That means you’re driven to succeed. If that’s what you want… For the vast majority a knock off homage is your admission to yourself that you’ve given up on life. Obviously there are exceptions to everything and I’ve no doubt some very successful guys will happily rock a san Martin rip off and not give a damn. Good for them. But for anyone else… try harder.

[@js1916]

rolex is the original design, san martin just some knocked off china brand

[@JustMeTalking]

I have a small luxury watch collection. Every piece has some heritage, history, artisan luxury and certification. My watch collection is very enjoyable because of this. A bunch of fake, homage or replica watches might look them same... but it turns a collection into a box of nothing. Literally nothing.

[@EricZ726]

I wouldn’t wear that SM if they gave it to me for free. Look how off that dial is. Nasty looking logo too. Look, clearly SM copied other designs, and the execution of this copy clearly demonstrates, SM is not even capable of designing a logo nor executing a proper dial layout. Everything from the large unsightly logo to the text arrangements is off.

[@dobbydob9443]

Honnête.

[@Uniongamers]

I'm sorry but someone who buys a San Martin or any AliExpress watch is not the same customer as a Rolex customer (unless you're a KZbinr or member of the CCP). Do we really need another video designed to make Chinese watch owners feel better about their purchase?

[@AgungBagus-x7v]

Of course is not the same. Rolex not losing their customer. You can't judge others and set the standart only by your opinion and your personal taste. Learn a real life lesson. Not everyone lucky enough and would spend a big amount of money for the watch. There's a priority maybe their kids, school,living, food etc. Then don't force other "buy casio, seiko, citizen and many microband that has original design bla bla bla! Just stop it. It's not your money. Some people just like the design and that's it! Not for flexing and not to pretend it's rolex! I'm not a fan of homeges watch either, but hey grow up!

[@TradeMarcmultimedia]

shameless