#27 Grandmasters Pick 'Affordable' Watches: Was Yours Included?

The Grandmasters of Watchmaking create watches that sell for hundreds of thousands of dollars. They were asked to name watches for collectors under $10,000, and you may be surprised by what they choose. WatchArtSci covers the general topics of high horology watches, watch movements, purchasing watches, judging the value of a watch and its movements and understanding the history of different watches and watch brands that collectors cherish.
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[@dialttante]

Voutilainen kind of dodged the question in Singapore, but he gave another interesting answer in an interview in the book Kellomies by Joona Vuorenpää published in 2011. He said that watches at around 1000€ (in 2011, so maybe a bit more today) provide the best value for money, and mentioned Tissot and Maurice Lacroix as examples. Another fun fact: Voutilainen's daughter Venla, who is now the director of Urban Jürgensen, has also been seen wearing a Nomos. Btw many thanks for the great content, even the older videos are still well worth watching!

[@watchartsci]

Great facts and great to hear that Venla is going to be taking care of service for UJ, Dialttante, (I got one of the last ones before they shut down-doesn't need service, yet.) Take care, Bill

[@dialttante]

@@watchartsci maybe you already knew this but Kari bought UJ with some investors in November last year, and I think they are planning to relaunch the brand in 2023 for the 250th anniversary. Certainly something to look forward to!

[@watchartsci]

@@dialttante Yes, I did know ... that was why I got great buy on my UG. I also knew his daughter was working there. Like you, anticipating the new line in '23

[@algorithm007ify]

I'd recommend stainless steel JLC master control and reverso grande, Zenith El Primero and Elite for under 10K. You will get something a little more "hand made" compared to the Rolex and Omegas at this price bracket. I loved the Parmigiani btw...classy piece.

[@watchartsci]

Hey algorithm007ify you and I both think those Parmigiani steal the show. I've been tempted to put in an offer on one...very tempting. So many great watches; so little watch money!! Cheers, Bill

[@mawean388]

Some further facts: Laurent Ferrier -- besides having worked with Patek Philippe for 37 years -- raced at Le Mans 7 times and e.g. finished 3rd place in 1979 (just behind "the" Paul Newman). Roger W. Smith from the Isle of Man (once a scholar of master watchmaker Dr. George Daniels!) meant the Rolex Explorer (1) 39mm -- not 2 -- , which by the way he owns himself, received as a gift by his wife and wears as his own watches are -- in his own words -- "too valuable". Philippe Dufour enjoys German watchmaking and owns an A. Lange & Söhne Datograph in pink gold. This is probably one of the reasons why he recommended a Nomos. By the way: Love your vlog. Keep up the good work... :-)

[@watchartsci]

Hey Wenfang!! Thanks man!! I didn't realize that Laurent Ferrier was a racer or that Paul Newman did so well (2nd) at Le Mans!! Interesting tidbit about Dufour, too. Kindest regards, Bill

[@westleygreenhalf2338]

Doesn't he have a 36mm Explorer?

[@adisoon6676]

Thanks for this. I was the one who wrote the original article on this, and glad to see that its spread far and wide! Greetings from Revolution Magazine in Singapore.

[@watchartsci]

Adi Soon That article is now famous! Thanks for dropping by! I wonder what FP Journe would have suggested? Kindest regards Bill

[@watchartsci]

Thanks Adi--please let us know if you get a response!

[@thomashendrick6711]

Wow-I've, definitely never seen any watch reviews cover anything like this. Thank you Bill, ssooo interesting, in so many ways!

[@watchartsci]

Glad you enjoyed it Thomas! Take care, Bill

[@ScottyBennitone]

I really like Nomos and what they're doing . I could definitely see myself owning one someday.

[@watchartsci]

Hello and Welcome Watch Addict81. (Your tag reflects what we all are!). I'm warming up to the NOMOS Glashütte. You have fine watchmaking at a very affordable price. It was a little too Bauhaus for me initially, but it has good clean lines and is a good piece of horological engineering. I can get used to looking at a watch like that. What does your collection look like now? Kindest regards, Bill

[@amintaslneto]

Nice video as usual Bill. Thx. Yes, I believe under $10K Rolex, Omega and even Breitling with the new in-house movements are great options. It's a shame that no one has mention JLC in this category. Probably because they used the retail price list as a reference but if you go to the pre-owned territory they offer amazing bang for buck models. My 0.02 cents.

[@watchartsci]

Hi Amintas, I agree. You can find a ton of Jaeger-LeCoultre watches in Condition 0 for under $10k. In fact, you can find brand new ones from a JLC Boutique on Madison Avenue in NYC for under $10k. However, they were asked to name 1 watch off the top of their heads and really didn't give it a lot of thought. They were in a very crowded room in a conference-like setting surrounded by rabid watch collectors (...people like us!...) and were fielding a whole slew of questions. This was one of many questions they were asked by the audience and moderator; so you can take it with a grain of salt. In some respects they probably don't think of watches under $10k as true high horology. I know that Dufour is a big fan of A. Lange & Söhne and Ferrier worked for Patek Philippe for 37 years. I read a review of the Vacheron Constantin Historiques American 1921 by Kari Voutilainen, and he thought it was one of the best watches ever built, but that watch is about $35,000 and I haven't seen one under $20,000 used. He and the others are used to a very different level of horology than what exists under $10k. Roger Smith, though, does own and regularly wear a Rolex. Yes, he talks about it like you or I would a reliable Swatch or Timex, but still he likes them for a tough, well-regulated and accurate timepiece. Of all of the ones named, the NOMOS and Rolex (not including Daytonas) are probably the most reliable of thoughtful choices. However, I spent more time learning more about the Rolex Daytonas and Parmigiani Fleurier Tonda 1950 because both are the most interesting of the lot. I do not believe that the Daytonas and Parmigiani watches really belong in an "under $10k" category,--maybe under $20k or even $15k, but not under $10k. What do you think? Kindest regards, Bill

[@marguitvaldez4792]

I believe the first generation Daytonas were built with Zenith "El Primero" mechanisms.

[@watchartsci]

That's my understanding too Marguit! Nothing wrong with that, and I understand they're worth a good deal now. Take care, Bill

[@dallaswoods9537]

Really enjoy your videos. You can't go wrong with Rolex. The brand power is by far greater than any other watch brand in the world. And they make accurate and robust watches. They are really luxury/sports watches. You can get a new Rolex Explorer 1 for $6500. A watch Ian Fleming wore and the one suspected referenced in the Bond novels.

[@watchartsci]

Thanks Dallas. Roger Smith would certainly agree with you! One of these days I'm going to see if I can get one. I go more for the dress watches, but I'm not into gold--a stainless steel Cellini might just be what I need. Kindest regards, Bill

[@markjonpalma]

Love that Nomos worldtimer

[@watchartsci]

Hi Mark. The Nomos worldtimer looks so Bauhaus that it seems stark, and then you see things like the city identifier used as the GMT. It's growing on me too! Cheers, Bill

[@Steve-fx6ej]

Hi Bill, Great vid..That 25% rule does not apply to the Daytona. I've got a couple and these guys hold their value over time. The new ceramic Daytona in stainless steel is selling for well over MSRP!

[@watchartsci]

Hi Stephen. No kidding! The Daytonas I saw seemed to gain in value with every passing year! What a great choice you've made. Wish I had bought one back in the day. (Of course I couldn't afford one then...) Cheers, Bill

[@karihjelt7147]

Voutilainen. Some day , perhaps. Just superb watches.

[@watchartsci]

Hi Kari, One Kari deserves another! I'd like to have a watch by any one of them. A Dufour 'Simplicity' is the most attractive to me, but I like them all! Cheers, Bill

[@buttguy97]

Actually, in 2019, in an interview with WatchBox, Philippe Dufour recommended 2 watch brands, Nomos and Rolex. So actually 3 grandmasters recommended Rolex

[@watchartsci]

Jeremy, were you at that meeting? That would have been very cool! Right before the pandemic closed down New York City, I was able to meet F.P. Journe and he looked at my FPJ Resonance ... and liked it! Take care, Bill

[@seanjoyce9475]

Hi Bill,just discovered you went to Cambridge.Thought you were an interesting man. Keep up the good work,a really well researched and presented series of masterclasses.

[@watchartsci]

Hi Sean, just a Visiting Scholar at the Institute of Criminology at Cambridge back in '84. However, my son went there in '94, Trinity Hall. Wonderful experience! Cheers, Bill

[@IgorVonE]

Man.. what some people call affordable, most of us can only dream about :D

[@watchartsci]

Hey Igor, that's probably true, but a lot of collectors accumulate cheap watches, and the accumulated costs of those watches could break the barrier to a strong horology watch, like a used Zenith. This is an expensive hobby that has no ceiling in terms of what a person can spend. However, by saving, it's possible to have some great watches that (like you said) you could only dream of having. Kindest regards, Bill

[@IgorVonE]

Oh, i completely agree. I do have some long term goals in terms of a horologicaly significant piece (an El Primero .. probably a birthyear watch), but in general, I want to have fun with watches and i sincerely do not want to buy something that costs me a kidney, that i would then be afraid to wear. Also, most of these super high end watches don't really appeal to me. I'm a man of simple taste :) An Orient Bambino and Mako will do. Still i do appreciate the engineering and craftsmanship.

[@watchartsci]

Igor...that El Primero is a great pick! Cheers, Bill

[@idid1866]

Patravi Scuba, by Carl.F. Bucherer, Zenith Elite power Reserve and of course, others have already mentioned Nomos...all under 6k!

[@watchartsci]

Hi iDid, the Patravi Scuba has an ETA base caliber/CFB 1950.1 that's chronometer certified; so it's pretty good. However, for the same money, a collector could get a Jaeger-LeCoultre Master Control with a much better movement. For a lot less money, a collector could get an Eberhard Scafograf 300 also with an ETA-base movement that won the Sports Prize in the 2016 Grand Prix d’Horlogerie de Genève! The Zenith Elite power Reserve is one of the best choices around that has been overlooked!! Good one! Kindest regards, Bill

[@idid1866]

Good catch, had no idea Carl F. Butcherer Used ETA, thanks for the comparison!

[@harpo5420]

Just watched this, thanks for your video - fwiw Roger Smith wears a 36mm Explorer I

[@watchartsci]

Harpo, Smith's Explorer may be the one with the George Daniels escapement. Take care, Bill

[@harpo5420]

@@watchartsci that sounds right - and must make it the most valuable Explorer on the planet. I wonder if it is more accurate too?

[@sandydennylives1392]

I got a C.Ward sh 21 C9 Harrison 5 day power reserve. Far more durable than nomos, and as accurate/well made. Hand finished and assembled, that will do nicely.

[@watchartsci]

Hi SDL!! That is one sweet watch you got and with a Christopher Ward in-house calibre SH21. They are a real bargain. Can you tell us more about it? Thanks, Bill

[@sandydennylives1392]

But of course! Museum grade sapphire glass front and back, cosc certificate, hand ground main plate, not stamped perlage, hand polished plate sides throughout, hand applied fount and indices, and hand assembled. Thick support for the balance wheel with the pallet beneath;dropped it three times with no ill effect. Five year guarantee with normal service cost's of only £75. 43mm but not too large, genuine Italian leather band with Baeder clasp, subtle homage to the immortal John Harrison.Tungsten rotor so easy self winding, twin barrel for 120hr reserve.Accurate to 2-3 seconds a day. The Nomos bauhaus style bored me in the shop, this doesn't. With the deal I got, it's the greatest dress watch at it's price in world history at under £1K. Looses nothing as an owner to Nomos, can be matched and perhaps slightly beaten by the JLC master control.

[@watchartsci]

Looks like quite a buy at £756 brand new from the manufacturer. I don't see why one would not compare them with Nomos; they both have that clean bauhaus design. Quite an interesting watch SDL. Thanks for sharing. Kindest regards, Bill

[@sandydennylives1392]

I wouldn't call the C.Ward a bauhaus design B, and it was a little bit more than £765! The normal service is £75. I waited 3-4 years before buying the watch movement just to check reliability but there were no bad reports. Best regards and I am enjoying your channel! SDL.

[@watchartsci]

Hi SDL. I went to the C. Ward website and got the price (they're having a 1/2 price sale.) That service figure is great! I wish all watch companies had a similar service cost. There's a new watch I'm looking at and the service cost is $2,800 (£2,329) and requires that the watch be sent to Geneva for service. Yikes! Hang in there, Bill

[@keithrockpro]

I just discovered your channel. You are clearly well-researched. Keep up the good work!

[@watchartsci]

Hi SnazzyPantz, welcome to Watch Art Sci! Tell us about your collection and the watches you'd like see videos about. Kindest regards, Bill

[@keithrockpro]

I'm a college student, so my budget hasn't permitted me to satisfy my horological desires just yet. I only own two watches, a Longines field watch and a Seiko SKX007. I love learning about the likes of FP Journe and Voutilainen though, and aspire to own a NOMOS or Speedmaster Professional at some point in my 20s. Looking forward to exploring the rest of your videos!

[@emanuelestuder2885]

2 out of 4 raccomand Rolex,very interesting...

[@watchartsci]

Hi Emanuele, yep, Laurent Ferrier and Roger Smith. Roger Smith owns a Rolex with a George Daniels (co-axial) escapement. Cheers, Bill

[@Rog5446]

If Smiffy says a Rolex is good gear, I won't argue. Trivia: When Smiffy was apprenticed to George Daniels, they addressed each other as Daniels of London and Smith of Bolton. I knew that Philippe Dufour would choose a German watch, because he once examined a A Lange & Sohne and exclaimed, the Germans are beating us at our own game.

[@watchartsci]

Hey Rog, interesting stuff. Also Dufour has one of the A. Lange & Söhne Datographs that he's declared to be one of the world's best watches. Smiffy? Take care, Bill

[@Rog5446]

@@watchartsci Smiffy, English schoolboy term for a boy named Smith.

[@watchartsci]

Thanks Rog! The next time I meet a Smith, I'll have a go at Smiffy! Cheers, Bill

[@5265vic]

I would've figured they picked technological advances like a co-axial

[@watchartsci]

Good point Victor, especially Roger Smith whose mentor invented the Daniels co-axial escapement. (Smith owns a Rolex with a co-axial escapement that Daniels made.... maybe that's why he suggested Rolex?) Cheers, Bill

[@ninocolletti9854]

what are your thoughts regarding a new concord c2 watch 0320178 at a $1500 price point with reference to quality, style and overall value?

[@watchartsci]

Hi Nino, the ones I saw were closer to $2,200 than $1,500. But instead of getting a watch with an ETA 2894, why not get something pre-owned with an in-house movement? However, that Concord is very popular; so there may be more to it than meets my eye. Cheers, B ill

[@jarrodlee1506]

Luxury for me is a speedmaster

[@watchartsci]

Nothing wrong with that Jarrod! Cheers, Bill

[@nyriderqns5363]

The Nomos reyails for over $6,100 in the US.... Not $3895....

[@watchartsci]

Hi NYRiderQns, where did you get those figures? Online at Jomashop, Nomos start at $1,320. A new Nomos Tangente neomatik nachtblau at the Nomos Glashütte online shop in Germany is only €3,580.(www.nomos-store.com/en/Watches/Model-series/Tangente/Watches-with-automatic-winding/Tangente-neomatik-nachtblau-sapphire-crystal-back.html ) Where'd you get your information? It is way out of line with every other figure I've seen, unless you've managed to find one out of precious metal. Let me know, I'd be interested. Kindest regards, Bill

[@nyriderqns5363]

I am not talking about the Nacht blue. But the World time weitzeit you put a picture of. You show a picture and a price... The price of the worldtime is $6100... You cant just talk about Nomos generally and put up a picture of their most expensive and complicated steel piece and the put up a price of another piece. It is misleading... Even 4 years ago when the piece first came out it was $5000+... I got my information from trying this watch on in Wempe last week... Also it is customary to quote MSRP, not discounted online pricing...

[@watchartsci]

Hi NY Rider, thanks for that further information, and I'll double-check the price, but I doubt that I would have posted were it inaccurate. I'm sure that Wempe's on 5th Avenue has a serious nut to pay for their location, which makes their prices a tad dearer than what you'll find if you walk down to 47th Street and turn right toward 6th. It may be customary for dealers to quote MSRP, but for collectors, I'd rather post the best price available to everyone. Take care, Bill

[@watchartsci]

Yes a new Nomos Zürich Weltzeit Ref. 805 is not $3,895; you can now get a new for for $3,862. Here's the link: www.chrono24.com/nomos/zuerich-weltzeit-ref-805--id3126977.htm Let me suggest that rather than using Wempe as a source of price bases, use Chrono24. If you're a collector, definitely do. Kindest regards, Bill

[@markgorman4805]

NYRiderQns Mr. Wempe? Is this you?

[@derekgulec147]

Great video subscribed

[@watchartsci]

Welcome Derek!! If there's anything you'd like covered on Watch ArtSci, just let me know. Kindest regards, Bill

[@algorithm007ify]

likewise, excellent channel.

[@gutyup101]

120,000 pounds amounts to 152,460 thousands US dollars not a quarter of a million, just to clarify...

[@watchartsci]

Thanks Susan. Old habits die hard--I was using figures from when I was at Cambridge in '84. Serves me right for being such as slough! Kindest regards, Bill

[@seanjoyce9475]

Might as well be quarter of a million...my budget would not run to £250.

[@luisn5]

I don't think that the recommendations by these masters should be taken as gospel. What I mean is that while they are masters of their trade, I do not expect them to be familiar with all the options available in the marketplace. A good example of this is Laurent Ferrier talking about a Daytona from the 1950's; he is obviously not adequately informed to objectively and completely provide advice in the matter. I do admire Mr. DuFour and he is a regular figure in prestigious events such as GPHG, so I am not surprised that he is familiar with a brand as small as NOMOS. I think that it is well know that Rolex produces quality products that will last a lifetime with the proper maintenance, so it is the easy answer. I am a little disappointed for the lack of depth in some of the answers, but then again they are not expected to know every movement or design out there. Cheers, LN

[@watchartsci]

Hi Luis, I would have included Habring2--excellent Horology, and a master like the Grandmasters themselves--at a great price. Keep in mind that 1) their recommendations were off the cuff in a crowded meeting, and 2) it was in the middle of a QA session. Also, I would imagine that most of the watches they're familiar with are well above the $10,000 mark. What would your recommendations be? Cheers, Bill

[@luisn5]

Because of your videos, I am intrigued by Habring2. I do not have any independents in my collection and it would be very cool to have one. Great piece of conversation, horological significance, and not unreachable for a working man. I have a smallish wrist, so I need to be careful :) I understand what you mean with off the cuff context, fair enough. Ha ha you put me on the spot with the question, well I am not a Rolex fanboy, but I would admit they are a strong option in the Oyster Perpetual 36 or 39. Basic, Buy it and forget it, you have a watch for life. Similar option would be Omega Seamaster Aqua terra 150 with caliber 8500.

[@watchartsci]

Hi Luis, I was thinking that any of the Omegas with a co-axial movement would be a good choice too. The key to watches like Habring2 is that they're made by master craftsmen, by hand and affordable. Rare indeed! Cheers, Bill

[@stusims6567]

I would appreciate it if you would look at more affordable watches. Most of us can’t afford thousand dollar watches, let alone ten thousand dollar ones. I am looking for a real gem under three hundred dollars. Find us some good ones in that range and you’re doing something useful.

[@watchartsci]

Hi Stu, I try to have a variety of levels; most of which are watch companies who make their own movements. They're the ones raising the prices. There are a number of videos on how to find excellent watches on any level in the collection of over 200 videos. Use the channel search to see what you can find. Cheers, Bill

[@mikehoward5004]

Nice objective watch info. Thank you. Rolexes are too small, plain and overpriced for a manufacturer that puts out over a million pcs. a year. Planet Ocean 45mm chrono. sells for less than a Sub. Side by side it looks like an unfair fight.

[@watchartsci]

Hey Mike, as you said, you're a Big Chromo Guy! I have neither an Omega nor Rolex, but I can tell you that I really like the Rolex GMT Master and the Omega Planet Ocean. Looking at the Eberhard for a sports/chronoe. Cheers, Bill

[@JohnSmithisnotme]

Rolex is originally British right? Hahaha

[@watchartsci]

Hi John, you are absolutely correct! Rolex was founded in London in 1905 by Hans Wilsdorf and Alfred Davis in London and was originally known as "Wilsdorf and Davis". It wasn't until after World War I in 1919 that they moved Rolex to Switzerland. Kindest regards, Bill

[@andrewlist4540]

why is your face so white???

[@watchartsci]

Hi Andrew, at the time I was experimenting with different filters. Cheers, Bill (aka: Pale as a ghost)