2g-ACM - Rimless Enfields - M1917 vs Ishapore 2A1 - Dirt Crawling and Failing

We're taking a break from modern guns for this match series and decided to pit two very interesting and historic Enfield rifles against one another:
M1917 "Eddystone" in 30-06
vs
Ishapore 2A1 in 308 NATO
We're also doubling down on the expert level in this match by using a Cimarron WW1 style 1911 pistol.
We've not had the best of luck with 303 Enfields at 2g-ACM so we're curious if these particular warhorses chambered in rimless rounds will make it through the entire match without a malfunction!
Stage 3: Dirt Crawling and Failing
We crawl through the Arizona moon dust and engage targets from a number of positions while under the clock & Karl decides to miss a lot.
InRangeTV is entirely viewer supported, please consider it:
/ inrangetv

[@GerackSerack]

Well, Karl, think of it this way: at least you didn't drop your magazine at the begining and get a 30 second penalty!

[@InrangeTv]

+GerackSerack I did not!

[@michaelnewell9662]

the schadenfreude was strong with Ian this time. he's so happy the dumpster fire was Karl this time. :)

[@Murphy82nd]

That was a hell of a run for Ian. For Karl, that hurt to watch. Sometimes it's not your day.

[@InrangeTv]

Shoot matches long enough and it will happen. :) ~K

[@robertmansfield7656]

​@@InrangeTv.. poor tradesman blames his tools.

[@cptreech]

That 1917 is a beautiful weapon.

[@InrangeTv]

+cptreech It’s an excellent rifle.

[@pffear]

While I felt bad for Karl missing I must admit I gave out a hoot for Ian when he kicked Karl's ass. Great run Ian !!!

[@DESTRUCT0NAT0R]

It's interesting that DICE modeled the BF1 SMLEs accurately enough that I've had the identical problem of aiming with the wing instead of the actual post of the front sight.

[@fnrd3858]

Ian running the bolt on his rifle is hypnotic. He is really good at it

[@KossoffFan]

I still think you guys should try modern made bolt actions with iron sights as a comparison. Any old gun thats been used will have issues, although i do agree about the horrible rear sights on the Ishapore. I think one of you should run the Savage Scout and the other run a CZ 527.

[@InrangeTv]

It'd be expensive to acquire enough magazines to make that happen, but it would be interesting. ~K

[@KossoffFan]

I agree it would be. That is the one drawback. However in the case of the Savage, they can be toploaded. Appreciate your response Karl.

[@KossoffFan]

Yeah, AR mags. I completely forgot about that. Ive heard their qc is up and down, but if you got a good one, and put some iron sights on it....or just use the ACOG if you prefer, that would work really well. Hell, if you wanna go lever action, you could even get the new Henry Long Ranger in .223. You'd have a five plus one capacity, and Henry made their magazines affordable, unlike Savage or Browning.

[@und3dpix959]

Why you would like to have a modern obsolete firearm?

[@runninggames771]

@@und3dpix959 semi auto ban imminent

[@petesheppard1709]

Ian did really well keeping his focus when the rounds hit the dirt during reloading, and he bobbled that bolt cycle when firing through the slats. I expected those to be his stumbling blocks.

[@DanielWW2]

Dammit Ian, stop making Karl look bad. :P

[@InrangeTv]

+DaniëlWW2 Yeah!

[@BLUGGLES]

It goes the opposite way most matches, its nice to see Ian win one xD

[@davogeorge4525]

ya see mate, me observation is that wee karl is a right AR an AK fan boy and, well when he gets his hands on an old bolt action it's like is idea of hell, and 'ol Ian on the other hand; he shoots so much weird and old crappy shite, that when he gets his hand on that m1917 (which I'm sure is like his fav gun ever of all time), after the old weird shite it feels like the best gun ever

[@nestrac]

Karl is NOT amused nor a happy camper

[@InrangeTv]

Meh, it happens. Really that's fine, you shoot matches long enough and this will occur. ~K

[@nestrac]

InRangeTV Well.... If you won every event it would get boring in the end.... 😉

[@Tiger351]

Using historical firearms and gear would definitely keep it interesting.

[@aries_9130]

Interesting! If Ian's gonna compete with a MAS 36 in another match, maybe Karl could try a No. 4? I mean.. that would probably induce other problems (rimmed ammo), but at least the sights are on a relatively level playing field.

[@notbadsince97]

Wouldn't painting the front sight post with white etc also be effective in letting you know you're not aiming with the wings? Also is Karl unable to run the bolt without hitting himself in the face or is it just a force of habit?

[@patricktakada9551]

because he's choking up on the sights to get a better sight picture.

[@tarstakars]

Illya Lypyak that's what I did with mine but in florescent yellow.

[@Dreadought]

I like bright red nail polish, it shines and picks up light well, is visible under most light conditions and reasonably durable.

[@pistolero486]

Good job Ian!!!!

[@scipio10000]

That was a blast! I appreciate that dynamic shooters would find a manual operated rifle a pain in the backside to operate, but to me it looks and feels far more gratifying than modern semi-autos. Which makes me think about something Karl said in a Q&A, to wit, that there is no reason why level actions or other "old" rifles - should not be fitted with modern optics such as red dot etc .... How it would look like to run a two gun with red dots on these bolt action rifles - provided that some clamp on version could be set up to avoid depreciating collectibles with permanent modifications to the gun?

[@deepscuba7384]

Way to go, Ian!

[@garyneilson1833]

Wow that was a turn up for the books, Karl suffering the misfortune and Ian shooting it perfect

[@briancox2721]

Karl: "Its killing me!" RO: (monotone) "it is too." Well thank you, Mr. Helpy Helperton!

[@InrangeTv]

+Brian Cox Lol

[@blackbird_actual]

Great job, Ian!

[@UmamiJarate]

OH MY WORD Did you see how far that Eddystone ejected that brass!?!?

[@elektro3000]

Karl I really feel for you, but I think it's worth considering that the 2A/2A1 rifle underneath those inexplicably bad sights is a possibly the world's best manually operated machine for putting lead on target. Aperture sights or a scout scope really unlock the potential.

[@garyb8486]

Outstanding shooting Ian, cool and calm!!! Well done. hmmm, I've been shooting a No1 Mk111 since I was kid. Range comp shooting in all weathers as well as hunting pigs in the tropics. Maybe luck, but I never confused the front sight with the sight guards and never had a problem centring in the rear sight. Then again, I've almost always used Lithgow manufactured rifles (exception was a BSA model). My father was righthanded in all things except shooting a SMLE where he shot left handed. He didn't confuse the front sight either and he was shooting in anger during the war. He was good enough that he was to be made a sniper....but was pressed into service with his mob before that happened. then again, in Karl's defence, maybe the Ishapore jobs ruined the front sight??.

[@RuralGothetc]

After hunting with my Ishapore for about five years, I have been able to make the sights work. Part of that is painting the posts white so that I can index the sights much more effectively. Also, to be fair, I would say that the Ishapore is one of the least obsolete bolt guns, as it is in a modern caliber and has a higher capacity then most of its peers.

[@vic771]

Ian you have that left-handed bolt action operation down pat.

[@alexvogel610]

Two things; first, I have a No1MkIII that had the front sight post painted white when I bought it. I always assumed that that was for finding your sight at night; it occurs to me though, that that may have been to help distinguish it from the ears. Have y'all seen that on any other rifles? Second, did the stage description say you had to put your muzzle through the slats, or simply that you had to *shoot* through the slats? I frequently see people get sucked into ports, where they get their gun or their whole body through a firing position, when the shot can be taken just as easily from behind the wall and through the opening. On this stage, it looks like if you were to back up about a foot, you could shift your body left and right to shoot through different openings, and not have to worry about going in and out, nor catching your muzzle on the top crossbeam Thoughts?

[@DrewEdwardBacklas]

I just saw an eddystone m1917 at my LGS yesterday after having started watching this series... sooo tempted. Wife is gonna be pissed.

[@willcaputo1]

DrewEdwardBacklas Only until she shoots it

[@erikbender1967]

What about a 2 gun with K98 and the Walther P38? Just a thought.

[@Luthtar]

I ran a No 4 in the 2GACM and I too had the issue of picking up the sight protectors, even with the peep sight. Also, my No. 4 got through the match twice without a malfunction! :)

[@TontoKowalski2]

Heck, I bought a loaded clip of .303 at a gun show once and they had the thing loaded with rimlock already enabled.

[@scottgardner2047]

Karl there is accompany (I can"t remember right now) that makes an peep or apiture sight for old milsurp rifles. And the Enfield is one of them.

[@slowpokebr549]

hope we get to see the pistol match

[@sethrich5998]

8:13 Karl looks enviously at Ian's "P14"." Ian looks back thinking it's an M1917 and it's mine.

[@LordDigz12]

yay Ian!

[@ngsorensen90]

So I also have one of these Ishapore 2As and I find that the elevation slider on the rear sight has a tendency to slide forward slightly when firing. Perhaps that was going on when Karl was firing through the slats since it sounded like several of those shots went high

[@eVVigilance]

Ian's contortion of bolt manipulation is always a pleasure to watch, but adding prone to it just takes the cake. No difficulties bouncing off his elbows every shot?

[@ZealothPL]

Hey, Karl, did you put the fron sight in the shadows while shooting throught the slats?

[@JR9979]

Dab of red paint on the tips of the Ishapore front sight wings, leave the front sight post black.

[@hiwayman64]

well Karl something that might help you is to put a little dab of white paint on the front sight then you can see it better .... some times that's what I do on my guns .

[@williamprince1114]

If you painted the front sight wings white would that help? Just thinking out loud.

[@asthmaticrhino]

I know it's a "right handed" gun, but Ian's quite quick on the bolt. Faster than most righties, I would imagine.

[@sharkinahat]

That was pretty good Stormtrooper cosplay.

[@dposcuro]

Well. I was starting to feel cold up here in Edmonton, but I gotta say! That dumpster fire made it nice and toasty, all the way up here!

[@MrBackpussy]

MAS 36! yes please.

[@Rusty3336]

I know it would be slow, but I am curious how a Gras would do on one of these.

[@InrangeTv]

+Rusty3336 You’d time out before finishing even one stage. ~k

[@andrewperka7729]

Aperture sights are an amazing optical system. I used to think they didn't make sense because there was no way to know if the front post was centered in the rear aperture, and I've encountered this belief often. Turns out that it doesn't particularly matter that the post is exactly centered because the aperture is smaller than the diameter of the pupil, making the sight picture parallax "free" within some margin ( dougkerr.net/Pumpkin/articles/Aperture_Sight.pdf ).

[@pffear]

Andrew Perka I know what you mean. I always had problems with peep sights until I found the Troy Diamond aperture sight. Put the dog ears in the diamond corners and strike the top of the post with the bullet.....

[@pffear]

MoPar, I had an M1 also and I found it to be the best round peep I've ever shot but, as good as that was over the rest, that Troy Diamond was over my M1.... If you ever get a chance to try one you'll love it.....

[@pffear]

GMdrivingMOPARguy, They ain't cheap Mo, about a buck and a quarter when you can find them but they're battle hard milspec made.

[@soylentgreen7074]

This confirms to me Karl is human or he missed his last update in his programming. First time I’ve ever seen him dumpster fire that I can remember. It happens to all of us at some point.

[@InrangeTv]

Lies! :)

[@DrewEdwardBacklas]

Who makes that shirt Ian?

[@jonathanp7232]

Ian is some kind of left handed bolt gun super human! He makes me want to shoot more bolt guns.

[@goetzliedtke]

I see that Ian got rid of his sling on this stage - perhaps the lack of dangling appendix helped him get 12 out of 12 shots.

[@hyattbusbey3563]

Is Ian left or right eyed? I'm a left eyed right hander and don't know if I should be shooting rifles righty with my bad right eye, righty with my good left eye or lefty with my good left eye. Which should I work on?

[@jonathanpiccone6935]

Karl no worries man , sometimes we eat humble pie . I sometimes burn sage before I go to the range , I always shoot better when I do.

[@InrangeTv]

Yes sir, it happens eventually if you shoot enough!

[@cryhavoc999]

The sights on that SMLE are they mounted like that to allow for long range 'company' volley fire out to 1000+ yards or something?

[@dmanx500]

Paint the front sight a different color?

[@HaelRefoc]

Hey guys, where can a dude find stripper clips for the M1917? I am sure having a hard time finding parts for this rifle!

[@nate_thealbatross]

Did Ian finish that on his last round and simply show clear? Nice run.

[@RaduB.]

Why don't you paint the post of the front sight on Ishapore, I don't know... orange? Or, less conspicuously, buff the protective ears and burnish/smoke the post... It might not be worth but you could spear some nerves that way! Historical weapons matches are very interesting so please keep them coming 👍.

[@JorgeOrtizIII]

I have to say, this is the only time I know Ian to have actually bested Karl. Guess I know what bolt gun I'm buying...

[@clessayons]

What about just putting some pink nail polish on the front sight to make it stand out better?

[@adamtarbaux7769]

You should do a 2 gun with a Springfield 03a3 vs the eddystone

[@fwi1298]

for karl , a sugestion knock the inside corner off the protection ears so that the top of the ear is not square enough that you do not mistake it for the front sight

[@InrangeTv]

+fwi1298 That’d help but I am not going to modify the rifle, nor am I concerned with using it for anything important enough to care. :)

[@fwi1298]

your rifle brother, do as you will , was just throwing it out there

[@rklkify]

would a ghost ring aperture sight on the no.1 mk3 solve the issue with the sights, or would it still have to be rear mounted like on a No.4 to solve the problem?

[@willcaputo1]

xrklkx I'd imagine the sight would have to be rear mounted in order to have a proper sight picture. Although I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that this is a case of a bad iteration of a perfectly adequate system. Other Rifles using a notch and post like the AK, K98k etc can be just fine for 2G-ACM if you put the time in to use them. The problem here is that someone was asleep at the wheel when they designed this sight. In fact, I'm going to go out even further and suggest that the non-optimal sights may have been a factor into the British Military's arms program that led to the P-13 and P-14 Rifles.

[@danieltaylor5542]

Its all about the peaked cap.

[@Sladey93]

We need a bolt action peep sight showdown: No.4 Mk1 vs MAS 36 vs Enfield 1917

[@JDeomanoJeromeDanetteJeremiah]

Watching this makes me wonder how the modern economy bolt-action hunting rifles would perform when run hard in a match like this.

[@57HEMIviken]

Pro move changing barricades while leaving your rifles chambered on an expended round!

[@ZGryphon]

It's like my grandfather said: Some days you get the elevator, and some days you just get the shaft.

[@GreenDayFanMT]

Ian for the win

[@MrRdvs87]

No need to bend the ears out of the way on the ishapore, just paint it a bright color.

[@commonsenseless9894]

Is it just me or does Ians gun shoot cases out faster than the bullets?

[@djwoody1649]

The Indian straight sight protectors probably messed you up, Karl.

[@miltonpirsos11]

Atta Ian

[@MrBandholm]

After the third "fail" I started feeling bad for Karl on this one!

[@InrangeTv]

Meh. It happens.

[@guessthetankifunny3772]

You need to put some core lokt through that gun my gets a 3 inch group with it

[@Godthepredator]

Bad day at the range is still better than being in an office to me at least

[@EeekiE]

GJ GJ

[@exploatores]

Karl, you got the wrong headgear :)

[@SurajGrewal]

Lets take a look at Ian in his native comfortable environment. When given a 1940s equipment, his hunting skill triples.

[@chitoryu12]

3:42 HYYYEAAGH

[@SteveSmith-wm4qy]

Do they even allow a MAS 36 to be used in 2gun? I mean, it doesn't have a safety

[@InrangeTv]

Yes, you'd just leave the bolt closed on an empty (or fired) chamber.

[@Firemblemaniac]

I'm wondering how an AR-15 with stock iron sights would fare against one with modern optics. Obviously optics are superior, but how much superior?

[@InrangeTv]

+Firemblemaniac The AR15 irons are waaaay better than these and it’s low recoil/semiauto. Modern sighting systems are the biggest improvements for shooting you can concern yourself with. ~K

[@dodsonarmsco]

The problem is easily solved by making the front sight white or red. I have had this issue before it is a quick fix.

[@dbmail545]

As if I don't have enough "passer's remorse" this is making me really hate passing on the Eddystone I didn't get.

[@rogerrobinson4446]

Sorry, couldn't help it, I did laugh. Not that I'd of done any better. Gives you respect for those who took it to war huh.

[@tsuhobbs]

Did I just see the certified stamp of FAIL hubris? Ha ha ha ha

[@InrangeTv]

Yep.

[@lenheinz6646]

+1 on the Enfield sight. It is easy to mistake a sight wing for the front post. I've not done that on the range, but I could easily see doing it under match conditions. With the Model 1917, the post and both wings are all in the sight picture, while with Mausers the front sight is a comes to a point and can't be mistaken for a front sight wing. But Enfields do have that issue.

[@jmullner76]

And his hair was perfect.

[@emperorspock3506]

It's ironic that in FPSs that have an iron sights mode, aperture sights suck and are much worse than open sights (largely due to automatic sight alignment, I suspect).

[@InrangeTv]

Most video games are laughably wrong about the actual handling of the firearms they supposedly represent.

[@natepatterson4934]

Hmm... M1 Carbine not looking so bad after all.

[@InrangeTv]

+Nate Patterson They’re unreliable. ~K

[@philverhey7335]

*_"F-16 Lawndart"_* .. I don't know what you're referring to Karl ... the USAF only lost over 500 of them between 1980-2000 due to accidents and mishaps .... that's clearly not _lawndarting_ ... I thought the only POS the USA flies are the 200'odd crashless F-35A,B&Cs that've been flying about for 110,000 hours... OK, sarcasm aside... respect to all the F-16 drivers who lost their lives doing their duty & all the viper drivers who were crucified by the service for refusing to fly an obviously faulty plane.

[@philverhey7335]

no

[@pikeywyatt]

every dog has it's day.

[@sscheriff4849]

Always knew Ian was the better shooter

[@InrangeTv]

+sscheriff Yes, obviously.

[@dudesqr]

Ian if you beat Karl I will play the lottery and, should I win, will donate 10% to InRange AND Forgotten Weapons (sorry Karl I want to see Ian get a win for once. XD

[@coles201]

Why did they make a rifle with that bad a sight in the first world war, let alone in 1964?

[@InrangeTv]

+Stalin That’s a great question.

[@coles201]

Do you have any knowledge as to why it was?

[@danielwalker8142]

paint the post hi viz orange

[@markevo1974]

The worm has turned.

[@phalanxtairoi]

I like how they fail to mention the no.4 mk1 lee enfields that had better sights than the no.1 mk3 from ww1

[@InrangeTv]

+James Swift We mentioned that in video 1, I believe.

[@aurorawhorealis]

They literally did in the first part of this series... They intentionally went with the 2a1 to compare the original format of the SMLE but without the problematic rimmed cartridge

[@LoneWolf051]

you guys should do a No.4 vs M1 Garand video like this....just for all the internet generals that say the Enfield was just as fast as an M1 with a good shooter

[@PassiveDestroyer]

Didn't they already do that? I could have sworn that they did..