2g-ACM - Rimless Enfields - M1917 vs Ishapore 2A1 - Dirty Berms

We're taking a break from modern guns for this match series and decided to pit two very interesting and historic Enfield rifles against one another:
M1917 "Eddystone" in 30-06
vs
Ishapore 2A1 in 308 NATO
We're also doubling down on the expert level in this match by using a Cimarron WW1 style 1911 pistol.
We've not had the best of luck with 303 Enfields at 2g-ACM so we're curious if these particular warhorses chambered in rimless rounds will make it through the entire match without a malfunction!
Stage 1: Dirty Berms and Range
Engage multiple small steel targets at 100 and 150 yards from multiple positions while prone in the Arizona filth and dirt.
InRangeTV is entirely viewer supported, please consider it:
/ inrangetv

[@Tobascodagama]

The WWSD content is great, but I for one am happy to see you guys shooting old bolt-actions again. ;)

[@ZGryphon]

What Would Crozier Do?

[@akcprivat]

It is called the "United States Rifle, cal .30, Model of 1917" nice and short :-)

[@LUR1FAX]

I will double down on calling it the "Krag Ver. 3" :P

[@adamsmith9032]

It was called the American enfield

[@goodmaninastorm4617]

@1:59 “You shouldn’t” I love this channel for exchanges like that

[@soylentgreen7074]

I like the 1917 sights way better than the 1903 but prefer the 1903 action. Have you guys ever thought in the future of doing a 1917 vs a 1903a3 for the ultimate US bolt gun match? Thanks for videos as always I enjoy them and appreciate your honesty that’s why I’m a patreon supporter.

[@evantemple4341]

I enjoy watching Ian's smooth left-handed operation of bolt action rifles. No easy feat.

[@katherinelicence3212]

Watch Ian's misses and hits when shooting from the berms. When he supports the rifle using only his hands and the points of his elbows he's more likely to miss. When he uses the berm to support his forearms and the rifle's forend he gets immediate hits. Use that barricade to get steady, Ian! And misses aside, good job running that stage lighting fast.

[@willroland7153]

Always impressed with how effortlessly Ian slaps a bolt action around.

[@ClawPhD]

wow Ians wrong handed bolt running was AWESOME to watch! Very impressive

[@djwoody1649]

The P17 is the designation for the 30-06 version of the P14 in British service. They were specially marked so the Grandads didn't load 303 into them. They weren't used thankfully though you can get them in great nick, same as the P14, as they were arsenal refurbished after the Great War.

[@Shellshock1918]

The .303 cartridge was rimmed for the extractor's pleasure.

[@AgamemnonTWC]

I love the 2 gun match videos where you compare historical weapons. By far my favorite content on this channel, especially when you use complete historical-ish kit.

[@LostSourdough]

1:56 is possibly my favorite bit of banter of all time on this channel

[@Batmack]

Was that teasing a 30.06 chauchat? You nasty...

[@1972glm]

I was gonna say, 'that magazine looks familiar'

[@spudgunn8695]

Well, he's only waiting on the paperwork....

[@Batmack]

It's like the underboob pic before the nudes

[@RedMcCloud]

It's a Madsen mag. Ian has a semi auto Madsen LMG.

[@spudgunn8695]

Red McCloud that's not a Madsen mag. It's not curved enough, it's got feed lips, which the Madsen mag doesn't, and there is no bloody great spring clip on it to lock it to the reciever... Sorry!!!

[@johnfloyd8199]

whatching the matches is my favorite part of inrange

[@classicgunstoday1972]

Always impressive to see a left handed man work a bolt action

[@tugboatyan]

*Simultaneous runs start* Who sat on my InRange video? Very cool matchup here - looking forward to the rest of the vids!

[@TheVarskvlavtbichuna]

Guys you are nailing targets from such a long distance with ww1 rifles with iron sights, that is insane, you know how cool you are!?

[@InrangeTv]

100-150 yards is not long distance. ~K

[@TheVarskvlavtbichuna]

InRangeTV :))) thanks for your effort giving us such an interesting, historicaly relevant content consistantly guys.

[@PhilHewkin]

I geek out over mil surp rifles also. I like seeing complete/original examples, but also have seen some very beautiful customized examples. the M1917 and p14 rifles when scoped, produce remarkable downrange accuracy. The 577 TYRANNOSAURUS on youtube is built on one of these actions.

[@Moxie-Smith]

Going into the last stage Ian was ahead by 9 seconds, but his final reload caught them neck and neck.

[@Hawk1966]

Watching Ian run that bolt lefty is just amazing.

[@MarkiusFox]

Also, Ian, you tease us so with the .30-06 Chauchat magazine...

[@drogomuircastle7175]

When I used to shoot full bore rifle (Late 70's and early 80's) the two rifles were always referred to as P.14 and P.17.

[@AustralianShootingChannel]

Good shooting lads! It would be interesting to see how the sterling no4 mk1 308 conversion would go in this match! Best of both worlds :) Cheers, ASC!

[@soylentgreen7074]

Wow what a side by view. It was ding-ding finish.

[@elektro3000]

I'm THRILLED you guys are doing this match!! I loved my Ishapore 2A1 so much, I bought a second one, (lately been considering a third) and I've been waffling back and forth about buying a 1917 for a while, probably going to get one now. Can't wait to see the rest of the videos! I really agree with Karl about the 2A and 2A1 sights, they are AWFUL. I gave up on trying to shoot them, and installed a Nikon 2.5-8x on my first Ishapore, still trying to decide what to put on my second one.

[@EeekiE]

Fright Sun Post @ 8:19

[@wonderflounium]

Finally got one after watching this on release 6+ years ago.

[@aries_9130]

Interesting results! I'm excited to see the rest of the match.

[@eVVigilance]

Yeeeeessssssss. More of this please. Can Karl design a cqb stage that involves bayonets? Please?

[@acidtreat101]

Very cool match, thanks for your hard work as always! Really enjoy these matches with interesting historical competitors.

[@dylanmoore5927]

I lost it when Ian said "I am hoping to kick your ass with it today"

[@Franky46Boy]

That Ishapore is a fine shooter too!...

[@ryanperry6563]

I agree. I love my M1917. I should try it out at the 2 gun match sometime.

[@ducktapepilot]

Had a 2A1 back in the late 90's early 2000's that I bought for $100 bucks. Foolishly traded somewhere along the way. That was a really nice shooter

[@cameron1432]

This was a lot of fun. Makes me want to scratch that Enfield itch again.

[@smck9798]

With a bit more practice you could definitely speed up, growing up firing No.8s and then having to do numerous courses taking turns as the student and spending years coaching and teaching I've put an ungodly number of rounds down range with enfields and you can really get a lot faster with good bolt discipline and practice overall. I can honestly say I can get more hits down range a lot of the time with the enfields than I can with a semi auto rifle, those rifles have a reputation for being able to shoot well quickly, and it's well deserved and not too hard to achieve for the patient shooter who is willing to learn to shoot it well and go back to shooting badly for a little while when learning to shoot quickly. One thing I noted Karl is that you move out of position a tad too much when operating the bolt, maybe it's that particular variant or your particular prone position, but on the .22 and .303 you should be able to work the bolt without breaking your prone position if you are right handed, we always trained for right hand only pretty much for that reason. Once you can operate that bolt with a flick of the wrist while it is in your shoulder, it really improves your accuracy and speed and honestly I would take it over say a straight pull AR.

[@Rinasoir]

I totally agree with Karl about the 1917 being the best bolt action. No question.

[@ALegitimateYoutuber]

Who else was like "GO Ian GO" as it looked like he was going to beat Karls time

[@petesheppard1709]

Ian was faster cycling his rifle. This was a bit surprising to me, because the British rifle was renowned for its fast cycling. Also, a good counterpoint would be to run a match with both rifles in .303.

[@InrangeTv]

Ian has a pretty unusual left handed bolt gun cycling method. ~K

[@petesheppard1709]

He's slick, all right! It sure beats reaching over the rifle to run the bolt with the left hand, as I've seen other lefties do.

[@Swindle1984]

Good to see some old-fashioned war horses go through a modern combat course. CZ-52 mud test next? Pistol, not carbine. I'm curious to see if roller-delayed blowback works as reliably in pistols as it does in rifles.

[@xXM60E4Xx]

Ian runs that bolt like he probably runs hurdles

[@ShawarmaFarmer]

Somebody needs to start making 1917 rifles again; keep the action, sights and barrel and maybe replace the wood with polymer to help keep the weight down. Oh and detachable trench magazines as a standard feature. Different calibre's would be nice too. Highly unlikely this will ever happen but one can wish

[@Rigzly23]

Tequila Cured Salmon Carpaccio With Vodka Foam They do. it's called the Winchester M70.

[@USSEnterpriseA1701]

Actually I would argue that the Remington 700 is the grandchild of the M1917. If you look at some of the older Remington bolt action sporters made after WWI, it's pretty clear that they kept using the same tooling from the M1917s to make sporters and eventually made simplifications. Granted that old tooling is long gone by now, but side by side, the Remington and the M1917 still have a lot in common. To me, the Winchester always looked to have more of a M1903 Springfield inspiration than M1917, it's about halfway between the two mechanically speaking.

[@DefZen343]

If I start moding ruger or winchester rifles into a 1917 clone with plastic furniture instead of wood, How much are you willing to pay? 🤔😁

[@williamprince1114]

TheGoldenCaulk The model 70 by Winchester has more in common with the 03 Springfield then the Remington 1917 which was produced for the civilian market as the Remington 721 for 40 or so years.

[@Porty1119]

DefZen343 If Ruger sold an aperture-sighted bolt gun with left-handed models at a good price, I'd be intrigued. I'd probably go for 5.56 or .243 chambering; .308 triggers my HATE button.

[@ducktapepilot]

I bought a 2A1 in the late 90's for $100 from a friend. Later traded it in on an SKS. One of many stupid sales/trades I've regretted. My 2A1 was a really nice shooter and just a really cool rifle.

[@Sn4k3f1st]

9:38 Karl's mating call

[@sarahmayer8539]

I wouldn't even hit those targets with a scope, impressive!

[@Darkplasm919]

Damn Ian you reload faster than I can blink.

[@Sedan57Chevy]

Old guns! I've missed the old guns!

[@nickl7488]

rimlock doesn't happen with military ammo... watch the bloke on the range video about it i shot a rifle no.4 last week with stock sights last week, did 2 moa at 200 yards with sling support, quite happy about it. cock on closing feels a bit weird at first but opening and extracting is incredibly smooth

[@raylandraybels9462]

Something should also be said that the lee has a much shorter turn down and throw for a bolt handle and though this may be anecdotal, typically a smoother bolt.

[@MrRdvs87]

Capacity made the difference.

[@kenmichener8439]

Well it's definitely a fact sir Ian knows how to run a bolt gun

[@Ben_not_10]

Caveat: the 1913/14/17 were designed for combat..... in the Bore War. The design was intended to deliver accurate long range fire like had been experienced by British in the South African countryside when facing Bores armed with 7mm 1895 mausers. So the Brit’s decided to make a better mause trap (pun intended) in the pattern 13. Problem was that even after the switch to 303 for war time economy, though sharpshooters and snipers loved the pattern 14 and Ross rifle for their accuracy and sight picture, the tommy in the trench much more preferred his SMLE than the 1914. The reasons I think Hatcher loved the 1917 is because of the long held American obsession with long range target shooting, which the 1917 excels at. The SMLE and the No. 4 were designed from the ground up to be bolt action battle rifles. Any issues we have with them today come from being beaten to hell and back being used in that role,

[@andrewpiegzik4121]

One great this about old high power guns, you know when you hit something.

[@InrangeTv]

Yep, and it's a disaster every time you miss to get the shot lined back up.

[@Procket12]

You and Karl should look for some of the No. 4 Enfields that were converted to 7.62 NATO.

[@Bearsmith23]

Always about the rim on the .303... proper milspec ammo would solve the issue with "rimlock".... or just pressing down on the mags and letting them pop up.....

[@1ohtaf1]

You can't do that with a full mag...

[@ChewbacaTW]

DAMN! I wish I could have brought my 2A1 Jungle Carbine to this match.

[@KB9813]

Ishapore 2A1 is not a small mod of the SMLE. It pretty much needed a whole redesign as 7.62 Nato is over 60,00psi. The .303 Mk.VII was 49,000 psi....

[@heartattakjoe7152]

had one of these .308 conversions with a half length stock, heavy barrel and aperture sights. lovely bit of kit but the brass butt plate still hurt a bit

[@philverhey7335]

shooting ambi ... I like it! (because I also often do it)

[@notagoodsitrep]

IAN DIDN'T GET STOMPED ON BY KARL?! IS THIS A SIGN OF THE ENDTIMES?!

[@Tuluet]

What I tried to do is to see the time between cheek resting on the stock and the shot fired. I added up the time to a one total time, and divided it with total shots fired --> average time to aim. Karl: 31.10 sec / 14 shots = 2.22 sec/shot Ian: 26.2 sec / 14 shots = 1,87 sec/shot tl;dr: My pseudoscience confirms your hypothesis of faster aiming. Bear in mind I did this with shitty timer and didn't go frame by frame or anything like that.

[@papacap979]

I have a 308 Enfield that I Sportsterized 7 or 8 years ago. The ignorance of a 'mall ninja', that I was.

[@kingwiththeax6880]

Papa Cap, you ain’t alone. I made the same mistake. Cut and crowned bbl, beadblasted, parkerized, synthetic stock, 1pc drill and tap scope mount, fire lapped bore. Mine shoots 1.5” 5 shot groups with Federal 150gr powershocks. One of my favorite hunting rifles. Totally truck gun worthy. I’m not repentant of my misdeeds, because I’d have never bonded with that gun otherwise. I just didn’t know how to appreciate her the way she originally was.

[@presidentlouis-napoleonbon8889]

Rifle match between a left hander and a right hander.

[@faenrir11]

do you think left handed use of the bolt action is an added "handicap" for Ian in this match? You both seem to cycle the guns at similar speed, but Ian moves the gun around more. I would guess it is so, but at the same time I never shot any gun ever.

[@quentintin1]

ii don't think personally i am a leftie and own a bolt action rifle (MAS 36). you can train around having to use your support hand for racking the bolt and get almost as fast as a right handed

[@philverhey7335]

judging by the last shots ian took, nope. (I also shoot ambi, like ian did .. practice makes perfect, no matter your technique)

[@stephenwoods4118]

One problem that I noticed with Karl is that he takes the rifle from his shoulder every time he cycles the bolt. With the SMLE is is not necessary to do this, at the worst you roll your head a tad to the left; This has the additional virtue of not blocking your vision with the bolt handle.

[@cryhavoc999]

I thought the same thing Stephen - Ian was quicker with the P1917 IMO despite being a Leftie - he at least kept it to his shoulder - while Karl was dropping the butt and looking at what he was doing. Whole point of the Enfield bolt is that you don't have to move your head etc. Still that P1917 looks amazing. I wonder why the British dispensed with the larger magazine?

[@amandahammond2691]

Stephen Woods Pretty much all of the bolt guns of WW1 and 2 were designed like that

[@wraith2k82]

+InRangeTV Have you rested the SCAR, both 16 and 17, in the mud yet? Just like the AR, AK, and some other guns.

[@New2Kendo]

I love the Enfield rifles, I need to pickup a non sporterized model

[@nindger4270]

Stop blueballing everyone about that Chauchat and get it on the channel, dammit! :D

[@MarvinCZ]

Go yell at the ATF to hurry up, then.

[@nindger4270]

Well if it's not there yet, he should stop teasing us. :P

[@pablohuertasrios9798]

6:24 hell yes

[@TroopperFoFo]

kind of want to see a match between a krag and a Lebel.

[@stephenwoods4118]

That would rock, and depending on the target could be very interesting., Also a Kraig and a Berthier would make a nice match, Fot thee pistol you could use a Colt in 38 Long Colt, and a 8mm Ordnance.

[@Jesses001]

I have the SMLE No. 4 that you mentioned at the end. The sights are indeed WAY better. The best thing about the sights on the No. 4 is I do not think about them. They just work to the point that I almost forget that I am using them to aim. I just think and that is where the rifle hits. Unlike you fellow's luck with the SMLE, mine runs flawlessly. It looks so ugly though as someone did a half ass sporter to it. Hard to go wrong since I paid $50 for it, ha.

[@pointlesshippy]

Ian, where did you get that amazing C/E UBACS from? it looks quite like a design i had a hand in making.

[@westfailia]

would love to see the performance of the no 1 mk v in this environment

[@InrangeTv]

They made less than 20,000 of those. It's highly unlikely we'll ever have one to run though this environment. ~K

[@asherterry7173]

8:18 fight sont post lol.

[@handersonsos3487]

I wonder if a left handed can fire much quicker than a right handed does while operating a bolt action rifle

[@Spectre407]

I also love the M1917 Enfield, but the best bolt battle rifle, but have y'all considered the Swiss K-31 into your evaluation?

[@CaptainCiph3r]

The K-31 is alright but has its own issues, the sights aren't as good, it's not nearly as strong of an action, and the quality of them is so high because they never actually used them in the trenches.

[@edm240b9]

To think an M1917 Enfield would weigh nearly as much as a BAR if equipped with a trench magazine.

[@billschaefer9899]

Ian, I'm surprise you haven't used say a MAS-36 for one of these events.

[@glueguzzler9548]

I wanna see how No.4s fare in these

[@CobraMustang]

Doesn't the M1917 suffer from ejector or extractor issues?

[@CaptainCiph3r]

Early guns had some issues with ejector springs but not enough of an issue to actually worry about. Not nearly as big of a worry as the fact that early Springfield's were not heat treated properly, and iirc, had incorrect markings on the rear sight leaf.

[@edm240b9]

I wonder why the M1917 or P14 were not used more in WWII, great bolt action rifle and the sights are literally sex.

[@deepbludreams]

Because they where mostly issued to units that did not have or need M1s, national guard units, factory guards, people like that, plus the later 1903A3 filled the designated sharp shooter role better and later the sniper role, because the 1903 is basicly just a match rifle with a bayonet lug on it.

[@quentintin1]

as for the brits (P14) they didn't had that much rifles to start with and improved the sights of the Lee-Enfield with the No.4 i beleive all the P14 rifles the yhad were used in a sharpshooter role in WWII

[@mrmadmax4523]

Max The P14 in ww2 was relagated to home guard and sniper usage during ww2 You can read accounts of Italian units capturing them and praising their accuracy as they then used capture p14 HT*

[@edm240b9]

Redneck Fury The M1903A4 Springfield sucked, terrible scope, no backup sights, not a good sharpshooting rifle by any means. While the USMC sniper rifle is an entirely different story, not many were made/issued and combat nature in the Pacific meant an 8x Magnification scope was overkill.

[@edm240b9]

Max this was early in the war right? Because the Brits did use what many consider the best sniper of WWII in the No4 MKI (T).

[@charlesinglin]

Or, if they'd put a ten round mag on the P14/Model 17?

[@Shellshock1918]

Was that a Madsen MG magazine in the pre-title sequence?

[@ballagh]

What is the pattern on the smock?. Reminds me of the Denison para smock but that didn't have a hood I think.

[@angryveteran8585]

*.308 Winchester (Not that I don't think you know that)

[@arieheath7773]

Were you loading a Johnson magazine there Ian?

[@archibaldthesimple]

Karl should stop dropping the stock from his shoulder. We all know the mad minute technique and thats how I shoot my no1 mk3 90% of the time, not so much for the speed, but the rapid sight acquisition. It really makes finding the sights far easier. I have accidental used the front sight protector a sight before too. Quite embarrassing, shot landed 3m to the left.

[@mikefenton5634]

Bolt guns make me happy.

[@7hart2]

5 Round, .308, stripper clips? I find the cheap NC Star/ M14 10 rounders works great, in my Ishapore 2a1.

[@InrangeTv]

That's nice, but also historically incorrect for this endeavor. ~K

[@thedyslexicorangutan8049]

can you sell that sling to me? I just bought an Ishapore 2A1 and I love it. Haven't taken it out shooting yet. But I'm looking for original authentic sling and Pattern 1907 (P'07) Bayonet

[@tsuhobbs]

Gaw did you see the explosion on the plate when the 30.06 round hit it? Lol

[@poweroftorque]

Le Enfield was used by Indian police service untill early 2000’s

[@andywood6376]

Is the any particular reason neither of you used the M1907 sling?

[@InrangeTv]

To do what, carry the rifle? Using those slings is a disaster on the clock. ~K

[@andywood6376]

Hmm. Thanks! ....The more you know....*ding*,.

[@shifty198885]

My 2A1 holds 12 rounds in the mag. Compared it to a normal .303 mag same dimensions pretty much but I can fit 12 in my 2A1 with 0 issues.

[@bocefusmurica4340]

That’s because it’s a 12 round assault clipizine

[@MegaDaniel720]

How come you guys weren't using slings on the rifles?

[@InrangeTv]

+xX420bonghitsXx There’s a sling on my Ishapore. Slings are not required.

[@MegaDaniel720]

so there is, my bad

[@dougdukes1039]

Hope you guys get a cut from gunbroker, you just made the price of the M1917 go up.

[@philips.5563]

Ian, why the right handed reload?

[@bocefusmurica4340]

That’s the side the bolt is on. Guns aren’t made for wrong handed freeks

[@brandonlorance8584]

Does anyone know what kind of clips he is using for the ishapore???

[@bocefusmurica4340]

Elsewhere they called them M-14 5 round strippers. I just bought an ishy so I’m tryna get edumacated

[@kenibnanak5554]

LoL, trench mag it with a carbine length barrel. That would be sweet.

[@markknife1]

ian you tease

[@Horus_the_Lupercal]

What stripper clips was Carl using?

[@InrangeTv]

+Marcus Aurelius M14 clips.

[@Horus_the_Lupercal]

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