77 Readers Sent Us Their Least Favorite Cliches | 2 To Ramble

[@2ToRamble]

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[@L3vy330]

Austin: “When people are too smart and competent is the worst cliche!!” Austin also: “Darrow and Vis are great characters!!”

[@hexeldev]

this comment needs to be seen by Austin

[@BenjiGlassKey]

Common L3vy W

[@2ToRamble]

Austin has seen this and approves of the insult. Very good Levy, very good. *blocks user*

[@b_s_productions4405]

Pixar's Brave is a great example of miscommunication done well. Where it is the point of the story that the problems could be solved if the characters were honest with each other.

[@edrk14]

What about when a villain is basically invincible until it's time for them to lose and they get dumber/weaker to allow the hero to win.

[@Bekindrewrite]

I think the fake-out death is particularly enjoyable when the audience knows that the person is alive before the other characters do, and there is a ton of buildup to when the other characters find out. And I love when it's years before they are reunited (except when it's spouses that go on to marry other people; that just makes me sad). Also as a general rule (similar to Richard's peeve about plans): If there is no body, the person is almost certainly not dead.

[@2ToRamble]

Great last point. The no body happens all the time

[@SaucySkater]

PART TWO!!!!! Love listening to yall describe why certain things work and why others don't. As someone who wants to start writing it helps a ton!!❤❤

[@2ToRamble]

🙏🙏

[@hydra1396]

One i never see brought up is the necessity of the student surpassing the master in every single story ever. This one has caused a suprising amount of issues over the years in a while host of stories

[@fightinostrich_]

The word you're looking for with Tolkein is "allegorical" - same with Narnia (Aslan's death and resurrection). I believe those work because they're intentionally structured as allegory (of the Bible for both those stories) so they aren't cheap but layered with meaning and intentional imagery. A cliche fake-out death usually is not done for any deeper symbolism or other reason than just to add some cheap drama or pretend emotion.

[@Beth64]

Just fwiw, while Narnia is purposely allegorical, Tolkien categorically stated that he despises allegory, so he definitely would not have considered LOTR to be allegory.

[@BookishGecko]

I agree with you both about animal sidekicks!! Especially talking cats they’re the best, actually even when they don’t talk cats are wonderful characters. In house of night none of the cats talk but Nala is one of my favourite characters in the series and all she does is grumble in an old lady voice “Mee-uf-ow” and I love her.

[@leviosalegolas]

I think there's another reason why Luke killing stormtroopers and not killing Vader works (other than it being personal). You could argue that that was THE moment that Luke realised he had been playing into Palpatine's plan by being violent and therefore chose to stop. At least that's how I've always interpreted that choice.

[@Yueff]

In defense of Luke Skywalker losing his hand and then immediately getting it back as a mechanical hand: Luke needs that mechanical hand in Return of the Jedi for when he cuts off Vader’s hand and realizes they are alike in that way and sees that his blind rage was turning him into Vader just like the vision he had on Dagobah.

[@katherinep1010]

I have never liked a video DURING the sponsor segment before. 😂😂😂 So great. You know, I think lovers to enemies could make a really interesting plot.

[@2ToRamble]

Thank you 😂

[@matt_cosca]

That was a fantastic ad 😂I’ve never wanted to skip an ad less

[@2ToRamble]

Thank you 😂😂

[@idahellblau8513]

For me it has to be the old Gary Sue, probably because i recently read some of the Red Rising series and Will of the Many. I really struggle when a protagonist is super overly competent at everything. I am completely incompetent and so can't relate.

[@2ToRamble]

You know thats fair even thoigh I love them lol

[@clawstruckwizard9847]

Wheel of time spoilers I really like how this trope is handled I think it is done extremely well. When Moraine dies in boon 5. You get all the emotions of her death and feel the consequences of it. Rand changes so much from her death and when she comes back it doesn’t feel cheap because it’s been 7 books so you still felt her loss from the story.

[@DiggerdanReads]

This was another great episode guys! I would love to see part two. I feel there are a ton of cliques that would be great for discussion

[@myepictbr6968]

I once heard someone describe a rule they had for including coincidence in their stories. It went like this: you can use coincidence to get your characters into trouble but not out of it. I think the same rule can apply to resurrections: if bringing a character back creates more problems for the rest of the cast than it solves (and it is not used for cheap tearjerking purposes), I am ok with it. This does not apply to villain resurrections though.

[@2ToRamble]

That first point is something I havent heard before - I really like that!

[@Jawright90]

Miss communication done perfect is tress of the emerald sea!!!!!

[@gnothiseauton626]

The problem with “don’t tell plan/tell plan” is that it’s not a cliche, it’s just the only (or the most efficient) way of making a story where they make a plan work without being repetitive.

[@nyxian_grid]

Richard: I know where it's been done well - Wheel of Time! Austin: 😅

[@2ToRamble]

Struck me to my core

[@iisaalisa]

"fake-out death sucks" lady stoneheart: am i a joke to you?

[@indiebricks1]

Good will hunting, is example of story of a genius guy being humbled by wisdom of Robin Willams character, on such things as relationships and accepting flaws in others

[@kayeshabhi]

6:27 this is the best sponsored ad i have ever watched. 🤣🤣🤣

[@2ToRamble]

😂 thank you

[@Maximus0623]

You hit a bunch of mine. Another that bothers me is when you have a ruthless villain who kills everyone he meets except the hero. When he has the chance to kill the hero, he puts him in a prison and leaves him behind instead of just killing him. Similarly is an expert assassin sharpshooter who never misses a shot, but when he aims for the hero, it’s like he suddenly can’t hit a target from 3 feet away.

[@2ToRamble]

Thats a good one too!

[@2ToRamble]

I mean bad one. A good bad one you pointed out. You get what I mean lol

[@qbanboi069]

Austin and Salty 2 to Ramble incoming

[@esmayrosalyne]

Okay but now I just want a full episode on the enemies to lovers trope, please and thank you :)))))

[@2ToRamble]

😁

[@gulcinkabay1887]

Lurker here. Love you guys I just finished a series that has resurrection at the very end. It was actually interesting because another character sacrificed something very dear to them. And the person resurrected is not unharned. (Plus we knew resurrection was possible for a while)

[@2ToRamble]

That seems like a great way to pull off a resurrection

[@Chance.Dillon]

The chosen one is tough cause it’s done so well in many instances-I guess one thing I’ll mention that we never talk about, unless we count Paul Atreides-a chosen one, but he’s chosen by the wrong side

[@Chance.Dillon]

Also the fake out death-I think it goes to what’s promised with the death that aids delivery. If, with the death, the author is promising something and then delivers on that promise-then I think it can work. The progress is all that happened from when they died to when they now live-and the payoff has to carry a heavier weight than the promise did

[@heathergoldsmith]

Well, this is the first time I've watched until the end, so probably part 2 is a great idea. 😂

[@2ToRamble]

Damn we have to do better on our other videos it sounds like 😂 , thanks for watching!

[@HollowDomain110]

Happy 150!

[@2ToRamble]

😁

[@supermayo8a]

2 to Ramble uploads, I click

[@str1ng_cheese]

AAHHH YES! Avatar the Last Airbender is soooo good as a Chosen One story because it makes sense!! There are consequences and burdens! I think what makes a terrible Chosen One story is when it makes no sense as to WHY there is even a Chosen One in the first place. Like, its confusing and sometimes even feels like a self-insert when there is no system, limits, or precedent for the Chosen One. Big fan of Fantasy with rules.

[@maxsinclair787]

if i ever buy anything from displate it will be because of your sponsor spots

[@GelidPrince]

Gardens of the Moon SPOILERS: Paran's resurrection did have consequences. They needed to offer another soul and someone close to him. Also, 2 characters explain to him that Oponn's healing was cruel and done incorrectly. Tattersail technically didn't die, she put her soul into a corpse. The second thing that happens to her took powerful ancient magics and is a story arc for another day.

[@clawstruckwizard9847]

Fix your spoiler

[@GelidPrince]

​@clawstruckwizard9847 is that better? It looked fine on my phone. Sorry.

[@FinalJesse_]

Part 2 is needed

[@LeonC0704]

the fact that you reviewed the pariah, the martyr, but not the traitor still haunts me... just saying

[@2ToRamble]

Oo those were some classic reviews we did

[@nordamoddev1038]

NO SPOILERS, but I can think of only one example of "fake out death / resurrection" done well. It's the end of the second book in a series, that is rocketing in popularity ATM.... Oh and obviously all 175 times characters die in Supernatural 'cough' it was done masterfully every single time.....'cough'

[@cobaltcrusader9841]

Name the book please 🥺

[@QueenViolet8]

Man theses guys can sell anything 😂😮😮

[@2ToRamble]

Lol thankya 😂

[@OriNebula]

Might not be a popular opinion here with fake out death but I think ( am I allowed to give spoilers here?). Harry Potter did the fake out death well. It was part of the story that Harry had to die to destroy the horocrux but was able to survive because of the power of his mother’s love and utter lack of understanding of that by Voldemort. That said the fake out death is hard to do right.

[@2ToRamble]

Fair point!

[@tnoy_karaxis]

There actually is a good resurrection in a song of ice and fire. And it's actually not the one you might be thinking about if you watched the show.

[@patrickmac777]

I've only watched about half of the video so maybe this gets covered but my most hated cliche is the character who doesn't know how to read being forced to learn. It's very common. Sometimes dyslexia is involved but it's always just a way for the author to get up on a soap box and peach to a captive and obviously agreeable audience about how good it is /they are that they are currently reading. It's both banal and pandering. Similar phenomenon happens in other types of art such as singing a song about how awesome music fans are, or that one song that almost every famous musician /music group has that just lists off the name of places that gets gets a cheer in a different place in the song (ex Californication). Another example of this phenomenon is the song about a place with generic things to like about that place that until it gets recorded they would substitute different places when they would visit those places ( ex California girls, Detroit Rock City)

[@patrickmac777]

Examples of the reading trope, Jamie Lannister, Simon from dragon bone chair (I'm currently reading that and it specifically inspired it) the godking from Warbreaker.

[@iggydaking9117]

@@patrickmac777 Jamie always knew how to read, he's highborn. I'm pretty sure you're thinking about Davos, where him learning to read is essential to the story.

[@patrickmac777]

@@iggydaking9117 this might be show only but Jamie definitely describes being forced to learn how to read by his father. And he makes reference to dislexia symptoms but you are right Davos is a better example.

[@jacintatate]

I'm tired of enemies to lovers, I want more friends to lovers and also secrets between friends. yea XD.

[@LeonC0704]

we need part 2

[@monstercreations7775]

Serious question, do you not have a copy of ‘rise of Endymion’? It is bothering me to see an incomplete Hyperion cantos.

[@2ToRamble]

We may - we’ll have to check, good catch

[@DlaGraphical]

4:25 The worst case of this I’ve ever seen is The Last of Us Part 2. That game needed a morality system like Metro 2033 where depending on how many people you kill it changes the ending. But even then, there moments where Ellie slaughters people that are cutscenes and not optional.

[@2ToRamble]

Oof

[@relaffub]

I see that yall added the daughters war to the shelf in the back. Either of yall read it yet? I liked it better than blacktongue

[@2ToRamble]

Havent read it yet but thats great to hear

[@adamprice304]

My wife needs and eta on the next ACOTAR or 4th wing review.

[@2ToRamble]

4th wing is coming with special guests this month

[@ChrisJalbs]

Guys im sorry for the Sword Of Kaigen slander during the livestream. The book goes so hard

[@KALtheHighstorm117]

Sword of Kaigen is perfection! 🤌

[@2ToRamble]

Hell yea!!

[@gabbodelaparrawrites]

Does Akwafina count as an animal sidekick in Raya and the Last Dragon? Because that’s one done wrong if it counts. 😂 #sorrynotsorry

[@lkay398]

I could tell you an actually great character resurrection but it would be extreme spoilers...

[@safinan8008]

Hi 👋 like ur discussion!! 😊

[@2ToRamble]

Thankyou!

[@KALtheHighstorm117]

@@safinan8008 Hi! Are you a new viewer of this channel?

[@safinan8008]

@@KALtheHighstorm117 thank you for the welcome!! 🤗

[@KALtheHighstorm117]

@@safinan8008 Welcome, newcomer, to the 2toRamble KZbin community! I'm Kal, the self-appointed newbie greeter and your resident comments section idiot/Robin Hobb fanboy. If you love long, in-depth reviews on sci-fi/fantasy books, half-witted - I mean quick-witted! - dialogue between two geeks, genre and writing discussions, an increasing amount of author interviews and BookTube collabs, and weird side tangents on history or philosophy, then this is the place for you! But above all, remember: Democracy is Cringe, so therefore, proceed in your life in the way that most Teeters Your Totter!

[@clawstruckwizard9847]

Part 2 plsssss

[@playermartin286]

Nice guns Austin! You too rich

[@2ToRamble]

Thanks!

[@KALtheHighstorm117]

Sorry, liking and subscribing is waaayyy too cliché for me. (jk I'm subcribed and like every video lol) I'm actually really surprised love triangles didn't make the list. That was the cliché I chose, and in general, it usually ends up being pretty high on the list of hated ones. Mine in particular was the MC has one option that's a good match for her but a bad character and one option that is a terrible match but a strong character. The readers often end up hating the love triangle because neither option is good. Also, I'm pretty sure you said that you plan to do your livestream on the last Saturday of each month. So for this month, I assume that's going to be the 31st? Or do you not want to do it so late, so you stream on the 24th? Just wanting some clarification because if you stream on the 31st, I likely won't be able to make it unfortunately.

[@valliyarnl]

Hey Kal, they’re gonna be doing the livestream before the book club and the book club is scheduled for the 31st :)

[@KALtheHighstorm117]

@@valliyarnl Oh okay. Thanks!

[@2ToRamble]

Wera is correct, and shoot sorry you wont be able to make it 🥲

[@Smileysmiley012]

[@gwbraiden4172]

The only time I've seen animals done wrong is Disney's second Pocahontas movie. There's like 3 or 4 animal sidekicks and they interrupt scenes and make an already terrible movie even worse.

[@2ToRamble]

Oo thats a good example

[@Shard-Core]

I’m one of the lurkers 👋🏼

[@2ToRamble]

😁 Hi

[@uncledubpowermetal]

Of course the Chosen One one was the most voted for 🙄 and it doesnt even seem like people dont like it, when pressed, but they dont like bad version of it. Neither do I. I know where ALOT of the hate is coming from....✝️

[@IndigoStat]

Of course you furries like the animal tropes.

[@personmcpersonperson2893]

Hello

[@KALtheHighstorm117]

Hello. Are you a new viewer of this channel?

[@personmcpersonperson2893]

@@KALtheHighstorm117 No, I'm a fan actually. I just was the first viewer of this video and felt like I should say something 🙃

[@2ToRamble]

Hello 😁

[@KALtheHighstorm117]

@@personmcpersonperson2893 Ah ok! I was going to greet you in a dumb, melodramatic way lol

[@personmcpersonperson2893]

@@KALtheHighstorm117 That's cool 😁

[@Mermer-16]

I don't hate animal companions, I just don't like animals, so if there's no animal companion, great. EXCEPT ❤Nighteyes ❤ 😁 And I like that you stressed the distinction between trope and cliche. Sometimes they're seen as the same thing.

[@relaffub]

I see that yall added the daughters war to the shelf in the back. Either of yall read it yet? I liked it better than blacktongue