i think another interesting point about Tolkien and Herbert is that they both fought in a world war but Tolkien fought in WW1 while Herbert fought in WW2. so the differences in those wars really changed their mindsets: After WW1 people wanted escapism, after WW2 people wanted answers. after WW1 people wanted yo find a way to forget the horrors they saw, but after WW2 people wanted to find out how something so horrific could happen.
@2ToRamble3 ай бұрын
Love this input - didnt think of it like this. Sending to Richard now!
@mathiaspetersen72655 ай бұрын
I'll keep fighting for The Bloodsworn series being in the correct order in the background till the day i die.
@thomasray5 ай бұрын
I support you
@CombativeRoboGuy5 ай бұрын
I have spent a day trying to understand what you meant by this. I WILL FIGHT YOU UNTIL THE DAY I DIE! IT IS INCORRECT!
@jobiy19995 ай бұрын
To me the power of Dune comes from Herbert's idea that everything is an ecology. The ecology of politics, war, love, culture, technology, and even time itself. Everything is a system. Everything has a relationship. Everything has a process.
@SimonDouville15 ай бұрын
a process within a process?
@fshattered28085 ай бұрын
I'm a person with ADHD that whenever I try to read a paragraph I'll forget what I read and have to reread that paragraph then I'm stuck on a loop. Now, after watching your reviews I have pushed myself to read masterpieces like TWoK, WoR, Red Rising, Golden Son, and Dune. Currently reading Oathbringer. Thanks for what you guys do!
@2ToRamble5 ай бұрын
An honor 🤝 - so glad you’re reading these books
@YeForWorldPresident4 ай бұрын
Train your brain to consume long form media.
@gamingsfinest33565 ай бұрын
I think one of the big reasons Tolkien didn't like Dune is because the entire book is formulated to essentially deconstruct the theological side of Tolkien's world view.
@alexanderkonczal39085 ай бұрын
I feel like Tolkien's world is a truer mirror to reality if there is a god... and Herbert's world is a truer mirror if there isn't one. both are logical conclusions if you grant their premises.
@Joker4895 ай бұрын
J. R. R. Tolkien was a devout Roman Catholic. Dune questions religion and messiah's. I would argue that this is the reason he HATES Dune
@ScottBass5 ай бұрын
Agreed
@IlsildusHeir27 күн бұрын
Is there any evidence of this though? There are thousands of ppl who are very religious and still love Dune. Christopher Roccio comes to mind.
@jaishans5 ай бұрын
"Dune is a great book, but red rising is better" - words of Blasphemy. Lisan al Gaib! Lisan al Gaib! Lisan al Gaib! (bTW, I love red rising)
@LFNZE5 ай бұрын
Muad'Dib wouldn't have let that slide
@papaflow31165 ай бұрын
I would like to pour one out and honour those who we lost upon hearing the phrase “Red Rising is better”. We honour the fallen 😂 Excited for almost two hours of this
@2ToRamble5 ай бұрын
😁
@billypilgrim59625 ай бұрын
One thing not mentioned, Paul's Mentat training in the book was very interesting and integral to his character. Definitely not explored in the movies as well as the politics of the spacing guild.
@joegriggs78095 ай бұрын
Speaking of wheel of time are we not due for another review 🤔
@valliyarnl5 ай бұрын
Stilgar’s sycophancy has another arc in the later books which I thought was fantastic. And Alia by the end became my favorite character. I think Richard would love the growth that she goes through in the next 2 books especially since she definitely becomes a more philosophical chatavter
@valliyarnl5 ай бұрын
As a person who read on, Richard is spot on about the stagnation (explored more in God Emperor of Dune)
@sideshowb.a.b.s.89135 ай бұрын
You should continue with the series. God Emperor is Insane
@philm.pinyan8115 ай бұрын
Just finished and couldn’t be happier with this vid. I can’t believe I got Dune and Neuromancer reviews in such quick succession. I’m living high on the spice right now lol. Fantastic discussion!
@2ToRamble5 ай бұрын
Thank you!!
@chief86255 ай бұрын
Dune is definitely one of the best sci-fi books ever. It'd be cool if you guys continue with the series and review it.
@CombativeRoboGuy5 ай бұрын
Before my friend had even heard of Dune, I randomly quoted the “Fear is the mind Killer” Bene Gesserit mantra and he was EXTREMELY confused. It was really funny.
@matthewmckinnon92985 ай бұрын
I'd highly encourage at least a continuation through dune messiah!
@Smileysmiley0125 ай бұрын
Forgot y’all doing two videos a week now! Was genuinely hype when I saw this on my home page. Don’t overwork yourselves! ✅✅✅
@DiggerdanReads5 ай бұрын
I came for the tier list at the end but stayed for the insightful thoughts!
@2ToRamble5 ай бұрын
😆
@BookishGecko5 ай бұрын
I gave Dune an 7.4 but I gave Red Rising an 8.6 however I’m fairly confident on a reread Dune will end up getting a higher rating.
@philm.pinyan8115 ай бұрын
I can’t put into words how excited I am to see Richard’s thoughts about the other five Dune books.
@SenneW5 ай бұрын
I've only listened to the first 10 seconds, but I'm already outraged 😂
@2ToRamble5 ай бұрын
😂❤️
@randomknowledgeperson28723 ай бұрын
please do dune messiah. you don’t have to do the whole series but you at least have to read the consequences of the first book. also in my mind they aren’t two books, Messiah is just part 4 of the first book but Herbert was forced to split it up to save paper. i personally like it more than the first myself just because it made me love the first so much more.
@philipgilfoy40262 ай бұрын
Frank is the Giant upon whose shoulders others like Pierce Brown have stood.
@ScottBass5 ай бұрын
Fun watch.. great video. Love you guys
@2ToRamble5 ай бұрын
Thankya Scott!
@loumorrison725 ай бұрын
@7:40 the fact that Austin didnt say "hmm you sure he wasnt inspired by MARS" hooooooooooooooooooowl* lmao great ep
@2ToRamble5 ай бұрын
Lol thank you!
@LFNZE5 ай бұрын
Red Rising is more entertaining and fast paced, but DUNE is a masterpiece for it's writing, idea and message. Is a book that makes you think in like all the chapters and make you go back and read everything in detail without missing anything. Even tho i LOVE the red rising, DUNE is just better, it has better quality at least for me.
@Vinflowerfield15 күн бұрын
1:28:21 funny how I'm watching this video now and very recently Lindsay released a video on Beatles and how Yoko was NOT the reason they disbanded
@VenturesBeyond4 ай бұрын
Excellent video! I just finished my first read of Dune and I agree with Austin (dangerous words) about the characters, I was actually shocked by the depth to many of them and what they lent to the story. Dune could have been so much less, but Frank Herbert just elevated everything inside of it with themes and story--an awesome read!
@rkgrkg4 ай бұрын
I love your book reviews! You get into detail and have such great comments. This one especially helped me appreciate Dune even more.
@jakeeffertz1815 ай бұрын
I'm glad to hear that someone else had a hard time with the first half. I kept thinking to myself, "What do people see in this book??" It took a good 300 pages until I started to like the direction of the story. By the end, I definitely changed my mind.
@Talking_Story5 ай бұрын
We are on a wavelength Jakob and I just did a reaction to Dune 2 as a huge book fan and a viewer that has not read the books. I actually got Jakob on camera 😃Great stuff as always guys!
@2ToRamble5 ай бұрын
Oh hell yea - we’ll have to tune in!!
@Talking_Story5 ай бұрын
@@2ToRamble our video coming up Tuesday features me sporting my new favorite democracy is cringe t shirt😀
@2ToRamble5 ай бұрын
HONOR ISNT DEAD!!@@Talking_Story
@jonsadenwasser42465 ай бұрын
I think you mean “ALLYAH! Dancing in September ALLYAH!” 🤣
@curtis259205 ай бұрын
READ DUNE MESSIAH! YOU MUST! YOU MUST!
@Andrew.Downing5 ай бұрын
You guys need to have cheaper tiers for your Patreon! $10 a month is a tall order. I'd totally do it for like $3 a month even if it was just Discord access (unless that's already free! If so let me know!!) and not book club access, game nights, etc. I'd love to be a part of your community in chats but man $10 is alot.
@2ToRamble5 ай бұрын
We’ve been tossing around with that idea - thank you for the feedback!
@Andrew.Downing5 ай бұрын
@@2ToRamble new tiers ideas.... $3, $7, $9,and $10 (the current one to rule them all!)
@vjmtz3 ай бұрын
Dune vs Red Rising: Very much like Drama vs Action. Dune is slow..political and limited in action, but it has depth. Red Rising is much more visceral, its action and war and its politics are thin and on the surface. Both are great in their own way. Its just two different styles within the genre.
@charliemessano2128Ай бұрын
Imo comparing rr and dune is impossible both are great and they are completely different.
@jordangoodeye26045 ай бұрын
Is there any world where Tolkien was jealous? Maybe he felt like Herbert was working in his own space? Similar to that story of Stephen King not liking wheel of time and it seeming like jealousy?
@2ToRamble5 ай бұрын
Oo I (austin) didnt know about Stephen King not liking WOT
@jordangoodeye26045 ай бұрын
@@2ToRamble I hope that’s a thing and I didn’t make it up.
@alexanderkonczal39085 ай бұрын
he said he thinks he couldn't like it because he was too close to it as another world-building based author. he refused to say why exactly he didn't like it because of that, but also because he didn't want to tear down an obviously good book by a colleague. think of it kind of like being a master Italian chef with a family recipe that you've perfected over a lifetime of work, something you take great pride in and have strong feelings about. you visit another city and your friend asks you to try the same dish, made by an equally talented and experienced chef, but he makes it an entirely different way. it's just not going to sit right with you, as opposed to eating another dish they make that you've never even had before (a work from an entirely different genre). for the record, after saying he didn't like it, he told the person who sent him the book that he'd be happy to send the copy he'd been lent to someone else who would be more disposed to liking it, to ensure that the book got more exposure and praise. I don't think Tolkien would have done that if he thought the book was BAD.
@KaoticKaden4 ай бұрын
Please read will wights cradle it’s the book that made him please
@abreathinguniverse5 ай бұрын
Love this discussion 🎉❤
@ArtSnob1014 ай бұрын
Doesn't he say to his mom "what did you do to me?" That was a moment I felt bad for him but exhilarated too.
@buttchutney42985 ай бұрын
I felt exactly the same as Richard on my first read of Dune as well. Its the rare example of a book that my enjoyment of it gets better and better the more time goes on and the more I think about it.
@annaroselarsen42185 ай бұрын
Yes!
@Kevsspot4 ай бұрын
Love RR!
@lwc23495 ай бұрын
I agree with Richard 100%, on my first and only read so far of Dune, I was confused at least at the beginning (it was also my first fantasy book) but I definitely got into a groove at some point, and I also loved the book.
@Doctor_Rockso3 ай бұрын
I stand with Austin and every bit of slander from Rich of Red Rising (the series) chips away at my soul
@TheeLavv5 ай бұрын
I’m curious as someone who felt like dune was also hard to read at first. A lot of language that wasn’t common etc. I liked dune and the story was awesome. I can also see the cultural significance of it but why does the fact that it’s simply hard to read not go against its rating. Personally like red rising better as well but I’m not hypercritical of books or a writer.
@sideshowb.a.b.s.89135 ай бұрын
You loved Leto? Then you’ll love Leto II
@IzzyZil205 ай бұрын
If Austin unironically actually thinks red rising is better than Dune (arguably the best scfi novel of all time and certainly my favorite) I’m completely disregarding his opinion on anything in the future. Red rising is fun, but there’s nothing besides action that red rising does better.
@tonkabeanicecream56985 ай бұрын
Everyone likes different things ...
@IzzyZil205 ай бұрын
@@tonkabeanicecream5698 you’re allowed to like different things but to say that Red Rising is better than Dune that’s crazy
@tonkabeanicecream56985 ай бұрын
@@IzzyZil20 well its not if he likes it better 😂
@IzzyZil205 ай бұрын
@@tonkabeanicecream5698 I mean, I’m just sharing my opinion you’re allowed to disagree
@tonkabeanicecream56985 ай бұрын
@@IzzyZil20 its just an odd opinion to have to say someone who likes something better than something else is crazy.
@georgimihalkov96785 ай бұрын
Awesome book. And surprisingly good recent movie adaptation.
@naturalfluency23155 ай бұрын
The fact I can tell Austin dislikes the Shadow Rising pains me
@Millenwagon1825 ай бұрын
Bruh, I'd rather you just name the dream ending oscars movie b/c now as I marathon through them, I'm wondering if each one is just a dream lol
@2ToRamble5 ай бұрын
I can spoiler warning if you’re curious and give the movie below!
@pedrodasilva5395 ай бұрын
@@2ToRamble omg is it all of us strangers?
@justinjosie54175 ай бұрын
Unpopular opinion but I’m not a fan of dune. I still watched this whole review just cause I love your channel 😂
@2ToRamble5 ай бұрын
Thank you for pushing through 😁😂
@TolkienGeek.2 ай бұрын
Saying Red Rising is better than Dune is just blasphemous.
@2ToRamble2 ай бұрын
🤌
@Gooby123375 ай бұрын
I agree with Austin lol Dune is fantastic, but definitely not for everyone. The world-building is the best in the game, but the characters were such a bore for me
@minaa1072 ай бұрын
I also think Red Rising is better 🤣 Frankly I just enjoyed it a lot more.
@2ToRamble2 ай бұрын
BLOODYDAMN 🤝
@freakynintendoguy005 ай бұрын
1:00:00 Dune doesn't ask what will happen, but HOW will it happen.
@freakynintendoguy005 ай бұрын
A process cannot be understood by stopping it. Understanding must move with the flow of the process, must join it and flow with it.
@Sisyphaded5 ай бұрын
Austin I’m at the point where I can’t tell if you’re joking or not…
@mmorgan19805 ай бұрын
Its interesting neither of you mentioned the (likely) religious reasons behind Tolkien's dislike. Dune kind of seems like its tailor made for him to hate it. Lol.
@xl47125 ай бұрын
I can't even lie, rating the first Red Rising book higher than this is insane 😂
@2ToRamble5 ай бұрын
😂 Austin is a dumbass (This is austin commenting)
@eduardocod89245 ай бұрын
I have never seen a book with so many mixed reviews like dune. Half will say is great, and the other half will say is bad/ok. For a book to be considered so good it shouldn’t be getting so many mixed reviews
@TheTrueRandomGamer5 ай бұрын
A lot of people don't like dense novels with little action.
@DarkSitari5 ай бұрын
This story needed 9-10 hours to tell correctly. Either 10 TV episodes at 60m each Or 3 films orlf 3 hours to cover the first Dune book. The last battle and emperor showdown were way too rushed.
@2ToRamble5 ай бұрын
Can definitely see that working
@matthewm.76235 ай бұрын
I never read Dune because I heard of how it gets weird and bad in the later books and I am an all or nothing kind of reader. I have loved the movies though but I think Dune will be one of those books that is forever on the TBR just cause I have so many others to read as well.
@TheTrueRandomGamer5 ай бұрын
Dune has always been weird. And only Brian Herbert's books are truly terrible. You should at least read up to God Emperor for the golden path to finish. Then Chapterhouse if you come to like Frank's writing.
@MrShahraman5 ай бұрын
Is this podcast about the first book only or the whole saga? Just to know what I should read before see it hahaha
@2ToRamble5 ай бұрын
Just the first book, don't worry
@Gropylol5 ай бұрын
didnt we already do this episode before????
@2ToRamble5 ай бұрын
We did a movie vs book episode and a spoiler-free book review before - you may be remembering one of those
@eastye265 ай бұрын
Are you guys going to do a dune movie review?? Or like the things you like from the movie or dislike.
@2ToRamble5 ай бұрын
Episode 106 was a review of the movie (comparing aspects to the book)
@robertomeleiro99995 ай бұрын
I'm sorry but I hated jessica on the books , I didnt care about her feeling not even a bit , but its fine that u loved her i can see that
@TheTrueRandomGamer5 ай бұрын
That intro is not the golden path. Disgusting.
@Darthsidious-c3f5 ай бұрын
Lisan al Gaib!
@about15hobos5 ай бұрын
LISAN AL-GAIB!!!
@nyxian_grid3 ай бұрын
You'd be surprised by the amount of people that hate Dune ahah I can't understand them!
@jonsadenwasser42465 ай бұрын
This wasn’t Poor Things was it?
@2ToRamble5 ай бұрын
No not Poor Things
@WeWereTheStorm4 ай бұрын
DOON
@billyxfrancex43655 ай бұрын
Book 4 wheel of time review?😢
@2ToRamble5 ай бұрын
Coming 😅
@billyxfrancex43655 ай бұрын
@@2ToRamble I forgive you :) 😂
@2ToRamble5 ай бұрын
Thank you lolol@@billyxfrancex4365
@datmarshy5 ай бұрын
The movie is much better. But dune is still a pretty darn good book
@TheTrueRandomGamer5 ай бұрын
Wrong.
@datmarshy5 ай бұрын
Well, that sucks that you didn’t like either the book, the movie, or both. I think they’re both good. I guess art is subjective. So even the best pieces won’t be liked by everybody.
@TheTrueRandomGamer5 ай бұрын
Just...everything here is wrong. Anyway, there's no reason to stick with the film over the novel.
@oliverqueen92215 ай бұрын
I think we need another Dune movie with Austin as Paul and Richard as Jessica. And definitely add an oedipus complex theme on top. 🎉
@2ToRamble5 ай бұрын
😂
@s.p.85085 ай бұрын
I tried reading Dune twice. Tapped out at around page 150 both times. It’s just plain boring, really nothing else too it. Red Rising is FAR better. Also, I read book 2 of Sun Eater, it is 100x better than book 1. Highly recommend reading on. Btw Austin, buddy, we gotta talk. That movie you suggested to Richard in one of the podcasts (idk which one) Aftersun…. I watched it the other day. Dude, it’s just 2 hours of a father and daughter on vacation. Literally nothing else. Every single scene is stretched out as far as it can go, the dialogue is choppy, etc etc…. And NOTHING HAPPENS. You gotta find better movies😂
@TheTrueRandomGamer5 ай бұрын
Incorrect.
@2ToRamble5 ай бұрын
That wasn’t the movie I was talking about. (Though I do LOVE Aftersun, that can be a whole different conversation)
@s.p.85085 ай бұрын
@@2ToRamble oh, so what movie were you talking about?
@2ToRamble5 ай бұрын
American Fiction!@@s.p.8508
@s.p.85085 ай бұрын
@@2ToRamble I’ll check it out.
@connorlancial62155 ай бұрын
Nothing like a new 2TR review to get through a long cross train session 🥹
@2ToRamble5 ай бұрын
🥺🤝
@WesleyStubbs-x4t5 ай бұрын
Please read all dune books by Frank Herbert. Love the channel would watch all pods with dune
@kylebuonomo25575 ай бұрын
I’m like 50 pages into the book but hadn’t been able to read since I had lotta exams last week but just started break, this couldn’t be more hype of a thing to see pop up 🙏🦦