The Dragon Reborn: Spoiler-free & Spoiler Review | 2 To Ramble #86

[@jamalerdem2055]

Richard is me trying convince my imaginary best friend wot is high literature

[@2ToRamble]

😂😂

[@SonOfSeth]

I love how Rich explaining the plot makes these books sound even dumber than they are.

[@TomOrange]

As someone who loves the series its super interesting to hear someone who does not enjoy it as much. Its like listening to an alien talk lol.

[@2ToRamble]

😂😂

[@sextuspompeius2668]

I'm perfectly happy to just hear Austin hate on WoT. It's a nice balance to my own correct opinions. After all, if he wasn't wrong, then how could I be right.

[@2ToRamble]

Now youre getting it 😂

[@booksandbubbletea]

😂😂😂

[@jasonm8051]

Perfectly balanced. Light and dark. Brilliant

[@matthewalves3855]

Based.

[@borasertgil5808]

Well shadow rising is our last hope. It’s an amazing book sooooooo if Austin doesn’t like this one there is something wrong with him 😅

[@2ToRamble]

*totally not nervous*

[@henryyt1]

I think I speak for everyone here, we absolutely will watch every Wheel of Time review no matter what. The podcast listening experience isn't any less enjoyable because of your feelings towards the series, Austin. If you were to give all 15 books a 5 out of 10 and we were just listening to Richard rave and you be indifferent we'd all still absolutely watch. It's completely on you. If you genuinely want to keep going with the series despite your apathy, do it! If you really just aren't interested at all after book 4 and you have little to no motivation or desire to finish the series, then don't finish it. We just like to hear you guys talk about books. If I had to give an early prediction, I honestly doubt you will enjoy TSR. I imagine it will be more of the same for you. But I could be wrong. I don't want to set any expectations for you, but I think the ultimate key to this series is like Richard said, viewing each book as sort of installments or episodes in one long story. The 1000 page count and high praise surrounding the book might lead you to believe this is a huge, epic, memorable journey in the vein of a Sanderson book. That's what happened to me, at least. But it isn't really. It's just a really long Wheel of Time book. Don't expect to be floored; you will be disappointed that way. Also, HOW does the wolf stuff not interest you? It's like the best part of the series for me. I fucking love wolves. I'm reading Empire of SIlence by Christopher Ruocchio right now. Phenomenal book I know is probably somewhere on your guys' radar. The plot and protagonist and world-building stuff is all cool, but it's Ruocchio's prose that single-handedly sets him apart from the field. He is an incredible writer. Best thing I've read in months. Cheers to you both, and happy reading.

[@2ToRamble]

Glad I read this - thankyou for the preface going into book 4, I think thatll help a lot! And yes that’s absolutely in our radar - can’t wait to read it. As for the wolves part - Ill do my best to explain in the next character section why that is, I have a bit of a lengthy response that comes to mind! But Im eager to get into book 4 even with my prior apathy, I think itll be cool regardless to see if this one breaks out from the rest for me. Appreciate the comment, cheers!

[@mmorgan1980]

I hope you guys continue even if Austin hates every minute of it... Richard's impassioned arguments are so damn inspirational I feel like I should start re-read number three. Lol

[@2ToRamble]

😁😂 we’ll keep at it

[@sambolton5244]

Where is the shadow rising review??? The channel has been lacking in wheel of time content lately!!!

[@PixelatedEpiphany]

To be clear mat was a jokester speaking the old tongue and gambling in the first book. The transition after completely removing the dagger is not a leap at all to me. It’s just a natural transition after the corruption of the dagger is removed.

[@prestonmcginty4631]

Austin, I agree with Richard that you should read book 4 and quit if you still dislike it. If only for your own enjoyment, since I like watching the discussion. I wasn't very invested in the characters until book 4. I was pretty apathetic about finishing the series. But there are several moments in The Shadow Rising that made certain characters click for me, and I became hooked. It's weird to say it took so many books to get me hooked, and now I've read it 4 times and it's my favorite series (besides Stormlight Archive).

[@2ToRamble]

Hoping this happens for me, that’s encouraging 🙏

[@yesbahjurt]

If Austin doesn’t like the next one, it’s joever

[@2ToRamble]

👀 *nervously reads every page of book 4*

[@bennyflint]

I always loved the scene of the girls getting Mat to take the letter because it shows them practicing how to be full Aes Sedai. It’s kind of cringey and immature, but you can see them trying.

[@2ToRamble]

Ahh I see your point!

[@happyclapper7620]

Thats how i viewed it too. I always found really funny and entertaining watching the girls "play at" being Aes Sedai. I can't wait for them to actually get there.

[@picturesintheair]

I love the “newbie” takes! I’ve read the series like 30 times (mostly audiobook re-reads) and introduced several people to the series. These conversations are so great! I wish I was there. I wanted to note that yes, the pattern of the gang parting and getting back together gets very old and predictable in these first three books. But remember that it’s not just laziness. It happens on purpose. The Wheel picks the threads- and these are the strongest threads- to force events when need be. Ta’veren working together can help the Wheel shape the events (Pattern) that need to happen. Fortunately after this point Jordan relaxes the formula and deviates from it- arguably, a course has been set and the Pattern has a little wiggle room at times. ;) hahah

[@AntelClusive]

Malazan is next? Finally, can't wait. Witness!

[@Spock800]

Witness!

[@karlamoschkau3585]

I am new to reading the WoT books. I watched the show first. I am so in love with them. I just want to live in this world. I am on book 6 now, and none of them have taken me more then a week to read. I think it is benefiting me to be reading them back to back, not reading other books in between so they are like really long chapters. I tried to do the audiobook for one of them so I could multitask, and I will say it is nothing like reading the books. I don't want someone else's emphasis on what I am reading. I think Austin should try reading one of the books instead of doing the audiobook. I also think book 5 has been my favorite so far. I know a lot of people like book 4 the best, but I liked 5 more. Maybe just hoping if book 4 still has not gotten Austin on board, that he will keep going for book 5 :) My enthusiasm level is the same as Richard's. I wish your podcasts would come out as fast as I am reading them so I could read along, but I know I will not pause now! I am too far down the rabbit hole.

[@2ToRamble]

Maybe book 5 will do it, but lets hope it’s book 4 😂 - and cheers, we’ll try to pump these videos out quicker and keep up with ya!

[@ricardogranados4381]

I could listen to Richard talk about the wheel of time for hours on end. If Austin truly continues to hate the series it would be cool if Richard would make a short summary/favorite parts of each book videos. I really enjoyed the plot part of this video where he goes through it and explains what happened. I’m currently reading along with you guys! Also side note - Richard, I’m currently reading name of the wind and I have to agree with you. It’s really not a good book

[@blakeisbell9870]

Me before watching: Praying Austin will start liking the series 😭😭 Me after watching: Praying Austin will start liking the series 😭😭

[@shawnm1144]

Book 4 is definitely a big step up in my opinion over book 1 and 2 (i really like book 3) but i would say at the very least go through book 5. getting through book 5 really advances some of these story lines to a great place and gives us some great moments. "Until yesterday i have followed men of other lands because i must, you i will follow because i want to... and i pledge myself your man".

[@FalsePositiveMinecraft]

If Austin doesn't like the next books, if he's willing to continue to read, I'd love to continue to have this series. I stopped reading half way through the first book, and based on some of Austin's critiques, I think I'd have a similar viewpoint as him, however I just love to consume fantasy and hear discussion on it. Austin's "negative" viewpoint doesn't detract from the vibe at all.

[@lukaslindstrom1352]

Love your discussion guys! I guess you guys are reading alot of other books in between, and that might be why its harder for Austin to get into it. When I read the series, I read all of them in a row, making it hard to seperate the books from eachother, but the whole series when its finnished is the best thing I ever read. Just like Richard is saying, the arcs does not play out over one book, but rather over the whole series. I think Austin really should try to listen to what Richard is saying. Also I would suggest that he reads The Wheel Of Time for what it is and stop trying to make it something its not. It is one long story divided into 14 books. Not 14 books with diferrent stories. Thanks for the episode :D

[@2ToRamble]

Cheers - appreciate it

[@CurieBohr]

If he doesn’t like the early wheel of time books, he’s going to have a bad time with the middle books.

[@2ToRamble]

Which book is generally the least liked in the fandom?

[@craftingodst3400]

@@2ToRamble Book 10 easily

[@shughes5778]

I'm waiting for him to randomly give the slog a 9 or something. I doubt it will happen, but it would be hilarious.

[@2ToRamble]

lolol@@shughes5778

[@colinredsox7441]

Don’t stop, I’ve been reading along with y’all and I look forward to yall discussing the series and finding things I didn’t notice.

[@craftingodst3400]

Austin just gaslight yourself into liking it 😢 😂

[@2ToRamble]

😂😂

[@axelhakansson3899]

My favourite background thing in this book is Thom singlehandedly starting the Carien civil war. Started my third reread because of you guys, still so much fun. I hope you continue the series, let it be Austins comfy series and let it take as long as it may. Cheers 🍻

[@2ToRamble]

Cheers 🥂 - glad you joined us on a reread!

[@jaishans]

I still wanna see these videos even if Austin doesn’t get on the wheel. The disagreement is pretty fun! #TeamRichie

[@joereeve2569]

I think Austin will probably enjoy Perrin in book 4 but maybe not so much Rand and Matt. Just finished book 4 myself for the first time and i definitely felt it's the best so far

[@joereeve2569]

Also relate to being more invested in Richard's descriptions haha

[@2ToRamble]

Who is your favorite character at the moment?

[@xenopixel8877]

Will you be continuing the wheel of time or is it over

[@Rageonharris]

One of the problems that might be happening is that listening to an audio book and reading a book arn't the same thing. They can convey different experiances depending on the peformance or the audio narrator.

[@lem0nthefreake]

Wot Audio books are classic though. Most fans love them.

[@chief8625]

I agree with Richard. I'm sorry, Austin, but The Dragon Reborn is a really good book lol. I'm hoping you like The Shadow Rising more than a 4.8 lol.

[@2ToRamble]

Started reading today 🫡

[@PixelatedEpiphany]

It’s not miscommunication it’s literally just more realistic. That’s every aspect of this series that you think it’s frustrating. From eye of the world to memory of light. Every time I’m like man wtf are these women doing. Or what’s this guy doing. Why don’t they just talk. Yea because all of that is more realistic. That’s what RJ set out to write.

[@delusionallotus4900]

Late to the party but if Austin isn’t enjoying reading then I don’t see the point in continuing for him but if he likes the post discussion (as I do) and as long as it isn’t a chore then I say keep her goin

[@EmperorLetoII]

Maybe I'm being unfair because he's attacking a series I've spent the last 2 years reading, but it does feel like Austin is just saying "I didn't like the characters in Eye of the World, therefore there is no character development in all of the Wheel of Time"

[@ddg4762]

I been waiting for this ! Just got done with The shadow rising and loved it .

[@lightblindedfool9510]

If Austin doesn't like Book 4 I say make him read the rest of the series as a punishment and a lesson on why you should always appreciate art.

[@2ToRamble]

😁😂

[@sliceofchilli]

Please don’t stop with these reviews! It makes them 100% more interesting because you don’t always agree!

[@brightwatcher3757]

Listening to you guys talk is bringing back all the feelings of frustration I had with the characters. But also the thrill of the ending. (I think of red rising every week because I DNF’d the first book but I can’t walk 2 steps without running into it so I gotta try it again)

[@2ToRamble]

Im guilty. Spamming people into reading Red Rising 😭

[@jzerfass04]

Man I want you to keep reading this amazing series but with each review, I die inside a little more haha. I wonder if it being an opposing view is tempting you to see it a little more negative 😬

[@2ToRamble]

We shall read on! And opposing view, meaning us disagreeing with eachother? - sorry didnt understand your last part

[@nicodemogawronski2052]

Perhaps you have read the books in 2 different moments of your readers maturity and that's why you have such different ways of seeing the books. After reading many other series which are better written, are more modern and with better pacing, if I were to read the Wheel of Time for the 1st time AND have youtube channel where I have to be critical about books, I would certainly notice more flaws and perhaps I would not enjoy the series as much. Do you think you would be more critical to the books, Richard, if you were to read them for the first time now that you have a youtube channel about books? Same question in reverse for Austin. Would you dislike them less if you didn't have the critical eye developed because of the channel (I mean as a casual reader)? Not sure if it makes sense :D

[@2ToRamble]

(Richard here) that very well may be so. I read the wheel of time after stormlight but still early on in my fantasy book journey. I do feel I am more critical now compared to when I first read them. A lot of the enjoyment from these, or any, books to to properly manage expectation. If you go into a story wanting something that is not offered or given, you will be disappointed. If, instead, you treat the book as a mystery to discover its purpose and angle, you will normally have a better time. I believe that is part of why I liked red rising less than Austin and WOT more than him.

[@picturesintheair]

I think you’re in a turning point. Richard is really doing a great job of pumping Austin up and giving the vibe of why fans love this series despite its flaws.

[@DiggerDan]

Just watching the intro… Austin is immediately wrong

[@2ToRamble]

😭😆

[@alynam82]

I'm on your side Austin. I enjoyed Eye of the World enough to continue, and I really did enjoy The Great Hunt. But for me, my interest waned with each book after, until I left off with book 5 in 2020 (my last read before the world shut down). I won't say that I quit, because in my mind I still plan to pick up Lord of Chaos. But it's not calling to me. Sorry Richard, if you happen to read this...

[@2ToRamble]

When do you think you’ll get to reading Lord of Chaos? Hoping my interest picks up, but it happens - cant love every book. Maybe the repetitive structure in the first 3 got to you by book 3 as well? Without spoiling, what caused your interest to wane over time?

[@alynam82]

@@2ToRamble great question, and I think a lot of it had to do with the padded out writing. I enjoy the story itself, so my issue wasn't with subject matter. I'm no stranger to said writing, but whereas many fans love just spending time in the world, I felt like it just took too long for me to read. I'll probably pick up LoC early 2024. I've read a lot, and varied books since 2020, so I may find new interest.

[@turbokid8719]

I read 3 books of wheel of time but I’ll read shadow rising… I’ll agree that wheel of time is abit overwhelming so should read them then take a break before reading the next book.

[@theangryjeff]

Okay I’m semi on board with both of you after book 3. I will say I’m really enjoying the series but no one book has really blown me away (I loved the book 2 ending though). That being said I loved Mat in this. I didn’t think his change was sudden because we waited so long for him to be fixed(?). He was my least favorite of the Emonds fielders, but now I’m on board with all three boys and loving it. I enjoyed the Rand break as well. I thought it added some intrigue to his character and made him seem like some sort of mythical character. I know the decision has already been made, but it’s okay Austin. I will try Red Rising soon when I need a break. It’s free on audible

[@basicoptimalmouse]

Im convinced Austin isn't really reading and absorbing the story. Sounds like he's just got the audiobooks on 2x speed while he's doing something else because he's just not getting obvious things and forgetting others. TEOTW was only two books ago and you already forget his personality at the start versus near the end? Also, it's very obvious that RJ was setting up different perspectives with Matt and the girls' letter - if you didn't get that, I'm just going to assume media illiteracy. At this point, Austin is more frustrating than the characters he doesn't understand.

[@kbeats5289]

Well, if your a fan of action, violence and gore Austin, for WoT I have two words for you: Dumai's Wells. You wont see that until later though. But it is epic!

[@nicholassharp3799]

It still boggles the mind how badly they FKED the TV series....

[@lorenzozapata4497]

Loved this podcast, can´t wait to watch your Shadow Rising review!!!!!!!!

[@samm8190]

Austin I feel so validated by your POV. This is EXACTLY what my experience with WOT was. I liked the first three even though I wasn’t crazy about them. Everyone said that WOT kicks into gear after book 4, and that’s where the series dropped off for me. I DNFd the series after book six. Dragon Reborn was the highest I ever felt through the series.

[@2ToRamble]

Hey there we go 🤠 - but damn, I hope I do like it as it goes on, which book was your least davorite of the first 6?

[@samm8190]

@@2ToRamble to be totally 1000% honest. Book 4 was my least favorite. The man needed a darn editor and half the book felt like Robert Jordan was retelling Dune. I mean A LOT like Dune. Once I saw it I couldn’t unsee it. If I find your characters to be ok at best, your plots to be recycled elements from better books and only your worldbuilding being top notch, it’s really hard for me to carry on.

[@colsanders4036]

An interesting take on WoT vs LOTR, in that LOTR coneys so much in 3 books vs WoT taking much longer to convey. One difference I would point out regarding LOTR is that much of the history and descriptions that Jordan gives you in the main books, Tolkien gave in his other works like The Hobbit, the simarillian, etc. If someone has not read all of these other works, there is much in LOTR that does not make sense because there is a lack of context. An easy example of this is all the different names Gandolf goes by (or is referenced by) from various characters. In LOTR, you just accept and move on, which is fine...(it is what it is). Robert Jordan, on the other hand, included all of this other information into the main story through (largly) organic exposition dumps. By the end of the WoT, you will understand all of the story like if you have read all of the Tolkien works. And much of the history components are done more like a story versus a text book. Just my opinion.

[@sampson623]

Perfect timing! I finished book 3 last week for the first time! Excited to stay in sync

[@2ToRamble]

🤝

[@christopherdyer2046]

The problem with reviewing this series book by book is most of the books are just ok to meh. But the last few books and the overaching story is great. You just have to trust the process. Though for me the aesedai collectively almost made me rage quit

[@2ToRamble]

Ill keep this in mind - working my way through 🫡

[@SonOfSeth]

I agree, after finishing the whole thing all I could think was that if you edited the whole series down to 3-4 books it could have been 11 out of 10. That’s why I was super excited for the show, it was a perfect opportunity to highlight the awesome parts and cut out or polish the problematic parts. Instead, they somehow managed to make it all even more boring and unsympathetic. I will say though, some of the highs in the series are up there with the best, sadly, there is so many low points that drag the experience down. Ah, what could have been.

[@RikusonOne]

I think regardless of how he feels about Shadow Rising he should continue. Additionally I'm also going thru WOT and i love seeing both perspectives and comparing it to the both of you. And lastly because I would like for this i continue to get to the Brando books!

[@2ToRamble]

Awesome - we will continue!

[@mcina001]

If Austin likes book 4 at least as much as book 3, I suggest you guys power through until the end of book 6. Events at the end of book 5 and 6 may change his mind, especially given that he likes Red Rising.

[@craftingodst3400]

Rand really starts becoming great in book 5 imo

[@2ToRamble]

Interesting - good to know and will keep reading on!

[@orcishdad8075]

Thinking of Red Rising counts as thinking of the Roman Empire.

[@2ToRamble]

Truth

[@jamesalexander958]

My first read through, I wasn't ready for WoT, and just wanted the big action moments. When I reread it, I liked it far better. It's not because I know what will come, it's because his character writing is so good that I could read it for each decade of my life and get something different. Prose is far better than you're giving it credit. He is way better at description, atmosphere, etc than Sando or Brown. Far better. Now you bring in other books like Dune or something, then we have a discussion

[@Rumham7291]

so how far in the series is part that you "know will come" lol? where is the payoff?

[@jamesalexander958]

@@Rumham7291 There are layers and layers of payoff. Rand's arc is arguably the best I've ever read (I'll include movies etc). There's setup and payoff throughout. If one can read Dumais Wells and not be blown away, I'd be amazed. But, I don't think it's the best teenage or possibly twenties book unless you can read much further than surface level

[@2ToRamble]

Interesting - prose wasn’t a highlight for us but totally get it, glad you love it 🫡

[@nickwatt1450]

I could not get through book 1. But I am all in on this meta plotline of Austin and book 4.

[@MikeyHansen]

Finishing the books faster than the postal service can ship them from ‘Murica to Denmark… Feelsbadman Having just finished Dragon Reborn, I gotta say that the ending felt a little flat to me, especially compared to the second book. Aside from that, I’m still completely hooked and interested in seeing where the series is going from here. It still very much feels like just the beginning at this point. Love to tune into these vids when I finish reading a book, Austin hurry up bruh! Plz

[@tomasgonzalez6643]

Richard I understand you so much bc as much as I respect Austin's opinion (it is indeed really interesting and in the majority of times real), I really think there's something in Austin's way of reading that didn't allow him to connect with the little moments and interactions from the characters. I've been thinking about it since he said he didn't see where or when Nynaeve and Lan's romance came from Lol. Anyways it's so fun to watch you guys. Greetings from Argentina🇦🇷! (english isn't my first language so I apologize for any mistake in this comment)

[@2ToRamble]

Greetings!! Ill try to keep a keener eye - appreciate the feedback 👊

[@tomasgonzalez6643]

@@2ToRamble Wow! Thanks for the answer and (especially) thanks for continuing the series!

[@Thomas.R.Howell]

One more thing I can agree with Austin on emotional impact and how you really don’t connect with the characters…. It’s rover Jordan’s quirks he gives every character and just repeats it until the end of Time. Braid tugging for example… my goodness. Lana face of stone. Loials hot dog fingers. The lore and world building is so dang good that I look past most of this. But sometimes it creeps up and because EXAUSTING that it takes away from impactful moments.

[@awnvv]

I just finished "The Dragon Reborn" and for me, every book has been better than the last, so I'm excited for "The Shadow Rising." Hopefully, Austin likes it so the reviews keep coming. I really enjoy watching them after I finish each book. P.S. If Austin didn't listen to Rosamund Pike's narration of the first three books, he’s missed out. She's the best narrator I've come across.

[@happyclapper7620]

Totally agree with the less of bland Rand the better. I just finished this book last week and i hate to say it but I LOVED that Rand barley got POV's. Contary to you guys i actually really dislike Perrin's POVs along with Rand. I was so happy we got to spend a significant amount of time in the white tower this book. I feel like this series gains alot of life whenever we have Aes Sedai on screen. I felt a little bit robbed in book 2 as we had hyped up Tarvalon for so long only spend a couple chapters and then move on. Nynaeve, Egwene and Elayne is defintley the standout group for me and i really enjoyed the hunt for the Black Aja storyline they are giving us. It's so engaging to watch the 3 of them really grappling with what it means to be Aes Sedai and trying to live up to that standard. Also Siuan is another seriously awesome character and I love watching the way she manoeuvres things. My hopes for future books, if it wasnt already clear, is a lot more Aes Sedai. Particularly i would like to see Rand in the tower. I want to see how he deals with all these factions of women trying to use him and how he battles against that. My current ratings are: EoTW-5/10, TGH-6.5/10, TDR-10/10

[@2ToRamble]

Sweet - are you starting book 4 soon 👀

[@happyclapper7620]

@@2ToRamble I actually started book 4 yesterday!

[@shughes5778]

Wow, it's weird to see someone who has the exact opposite opinion of me. The three girls are probably my least favorite characters, though Elayne isn't too bad most of the time.

[@satyammishra3206]

I LOVED BOOK 1 AND 2 BUT DON'T KNOW...WHY I DIDN'T LIKE DRAGON REBORN MORE, may be it because I am not a good reader...

[@terabyter9000]

I guess they stopped here. No further videos about it.

[@2ToRamble]

Most recent episode 👀

[@fallonyoursword]

Finished this today. My biggest complaint with the first three books is that the endings feel rushed. There were a lot of great parts in dragon reborn, good buildup to tear, but I just left it unsatisfied. In general I'm in the 6.8 neighborhood, but I'm into it. Great world building, mediocre execution. Looking forward to you guys doing book 4.

[@Thomas.R.Howell]

Just finished book 3 for the first time. I liked it. But yes the formula just feels like stranger things/ monster of the week. I think the series will have so much more impact on a second read because how deep the foreshadowing goes. I’m excited to continue on!

[@stephenlogsdon8266]

If memory serves, Kaladan has a moment with a spren during a very low point, (is that what they’re called?). And while cool. I mean really cool. I loved it cool, it’s an external motivation in his life that brings him in from the edge. Jordan has his characters explore themselves in their evolution, while being assaulted by the dark one and his minions, and your bored? And you discount Jordan with scores so low? Maybe you need a different perspective? Or maybe I’m wrong? Kaladan’s journey from that low point is one of my favorites in fantasy, but he’s as good as Matt, Perrin, and Rand. The one thing I dislike about Kaladan: he peeks at book 2, and becomes … wait for it … boring. Dull. Jordan gives growth over 14 books, which makes those characters last throughout the series. He divides it out slowly.

[@14cole19]

From someone who recently finished The Dragon Reborn. During the scene where Rand beheads the Merchants im lime 90% sure he sensed a Grey Man. He said how he saw 7 people riding up, then got bad juju and realized he killed 8 people afterwards. Especially b/c grey men can pass by unseen, im pretty positive he killed like 7 innocents to get one Grey Man

[@epee11c]

I'm wondering if the combination of loving Lord of the Rings and Sanderson is whats ruining this for you. You love and have gone deep on both one of the inspirations for the wheel of time and also an author who was inspired by the wheel of time. Quite a few of Sanderson's characters are also inspired by Wheel of Time characters (no shade, I love Sanderson). But you're looking for "how is this different?" But you're asking it to be different from both its inspiration and an author heavily inspired by RJ.

[@judokoga2145]

Min is my favourite character so far. I like them all now but Min I wish she had bigger parts.

[@amy_harboredinpages8272]

After reading books 11&12, I've decided to call Matt my comic relief... serious serious, drama.... Matt!😃...aka. Toy😅😂😂 It has taken some time, but I appreciate Rand a little more now. So the is hope😉... Make Austin finis it!!! Lol

[@venona350]

Nah, if you don't like it, you don't like it. I binge-read books 1 and 2 and struggled to finish book 3 because it's not Rand's POV. The first book of any series supposedly should be enough to hook you into the series. If the first book is not enough to get you to continue, then this is not the book for you.

[@mahe729]

I think you missed one crucial point as well. All these characters (the Emond's Fields 5) are basically teenagers as well. Just 16-18 years old (Nynaeve being in her early 20's). You gotta factor in their emotional immaturity in this too and how they're all forced to become more mature at a much faster pace than normal too. One big example of this is the Shadar Logoth dagger and Mat. That's why Mat followed Mordeth to the 'treasure'. He's a kid who has grand thoughts about the world and hasn't had the chance to determine right from wrong completely. Even though there are beasts and an evil incarnate character, the idea that another human would harm them is a foreign concept to them!

[@matthewmichaelcrown3643]

Mat was carrying a dagger out of Hell. Then he wasn't. That's why change...

[@laszmosis]

I think I liked WoT slightly more than Austin and ended up giving it up after book 4 or 5. I thought they were good books but just not my personal taste and wasn't invested enough. Definitely keen for some Malazan reviews one day!

[@Godsmack477x]

I feel like if Austin doesn't like book 4 he should stop to continue he should at least give it a 6. The big problem is it takes you guys 2 1/2 months to release the review of each book. Its not like much editing goes into it its just a podcast format. If you make it to book 6 you might as well finish the series cause that's basically halfway through. But if the first 6 books are this bad for Austin I fell like his rating of books 7-10 will be in the 3 range.

[@Spock800]

I’m almost halfway through The Shadow Rising. Looking forward to that video!

[@Bigbluemeanie234]

So, i get where Austin may be coming from. Having read Stormlight most of the way through before starting Wheel of Time i kind of get the having false expectations kind of thing. Youre really wanting these big character moments and they just dont come. But afterwards i start to realize while i think about what ive read and realize that "wow these characters really have grown or changed a bit"

[@valliyarnl]

Hi :) Can I use a clip of Austin saying the statistic about how long Rand is in the book for one of my videos? Thanks in advance! its ok if no :) Edit: I'm making a video ranking the WoT books***

[@2ToRamble]

Go ahead. Go nuts!

[@valliyarnl]

@@2ToRamble thanks I ended up using a screenshot of your KZbin page :))

[@heavysetmedia1904]

ok. I lied. I had to hate watch. im not as mad this time. i may, just may keep watching. I do feel bad. it has to be hard to not be into book 1 of 14. and then have any real expectation that the scored would change moving forward.

[@peytontrahan2147]

I just found this lol. But if he doesn’t like the third book he probably doesn’t like the wheel of time because this is the book where the wheel of time takes off in my opinion

[@MrZ0r0]

Force full read through!

[@2ToRamble]

🥲

[@MrTTnTT]

That thing about people having different perspectives is most obvious between men and women, but the next book should make it very clear with regard to Rand and Mat, at least, that different perspectives make a huge difference even when characters are the same sex. People keep secrets because "to fool your enemies, you must also fool your friends", and in that book, someone tries to also fool the reader. Which you might notice if you pay attention to when perspectives switch. Thinking Mat was suddenly different or that he changed in book 3 is understandable, but not if you pay attention. For one, book 3 is the first time we get Mat's perspective. Second, as Richard points out, the dagger made him not-well for the latter half of book 1 and the whole of book 3. We simply didn't get to see him a lot, but in book 2 we did see his humor/frustration, for example when he had to pretend to limp in Cairhien, as well as the nonchalant way he blew the horn in Falme. Not so sudden a change, just less things preventing you from seeing who Mat is. About continuing or not and Austin's enjoyment, it sounds like you should continue. It also sounds like the series is starting to grow on him, so even if it doesn't become a favorite it sounds like it should be fine.

[@jasonm8051]

Richard doing his best gleeman . Love the wot talk guys. Eagerly awaiting 4th installment.

[@billyxfrancex4365]

It’s been three months please please please review book 4😭💀 I need to know if he changes his mindddd

[@wolfethered7776]

Just found your channel and I'm loving it! I'm also on my first readthrough of wot and although I think I'm liking it more than Austin, I can definitely see his criticisms, I'm also not absolutely in love with it yet but it feels so cozy and everytime I finish one book I find myself thinking about starting the next one more often than not (I like to read other things in between series to stop me from burning out).

[@mordaeu1411]

28:08

[@corbinfreeman6607]

I’m late to comment, but it’s genuinely baffling how bad Austin’s takes are. Not only does he believe Morning Star is weaker than Red Rising, but he doesn’t like Wheel of Time. If Austin was actually a character reader, he’d be blasting through this series and gush about it on the same level as the Red Rising series. The character growth over time is f***ing incredible, and that tells me that Austin doesn’t care about characters

[@2ToRamble]

Ahh darn - Ill try to explain myself better in future! Shadow Rising review coming soon, but I dont think we’ll agree as fsr as WOT goes. But fair enough!

[@corbinfreeman6607]

@@2ToRamble sorry, my comment probably came off a little rude. I had just spent a day binging WoT and watching your reviews of WoT in between chapters, and I was feeling a little heated. Your criticisms are valid, but I also think you’ve been expecting something different from what WoT offers. I think maybe you saw Brando Sando’s contribution to the end of the series and expected a series in line with how he writes, and that’s not the case.

[@Steve-xl1hn]

Hearing Jordan's prose described as worse than Sanderson's 😢

[@nemek2082]

Finished reading the 3rd book today. So far enjoying all of them with every book being better than the last!

[@boxerjeep]

That scene is important too because the girls always talk about how they are being used and how they hate it but then immediately do the same when they need help. Super dynamic character and character development

[@MotIsFlying]

I was meh on the first three books but I really enjoyed books 4-6. After that I felt pretty meh (except for book 9) again and now I am on book 11 and it starts to pick up again. I am not the biggest Sanderson fan but I easily believe the people who claim that he saved the series. The problem with Jordan is really that he focuses on so many different characters to create this huge complex web that unfortunately falls flat quite often. But Rand is great from book 4 on and forward. I am actually surprised that he isn‘t everyone’s favourite because his story is the only one that remained interesting throughout. I like Mat too but he chose the wrong road when it grew dark…

[@2ToRamble]

Hoping this is the case for me that it picks up in book 4 - very much looking forward to the Sanderso/Jordan combination at the end if the series grows on me

[@curtis25920]

I give The Komodo Dragon Reborn a Komodo/10

[@happyclapper7620]

Looks like i'm early. I have been waiting for this one hahaha

[@Thomas.R.Howell]

I love the different opinions. Because even big WoT fans share some of Austin’s negative opinions. I hope you both stick it out because every time I finish a book in the series, this is the first place I go! Excited for next episode.

[@2ToRamble]

Cheers!! We will keep reviewing 🤝

[@KnightlyASMR]

Definitely make him read the whole thing haha

[@theirishman7792]

Not me just watching this 5 months later knowing Austin probably didn’t make it through book 4 😢

[@2ToRamble]

Just finished book 4 🥲

[@up4discussion660]

Alright I was going to comment on the first video but then I binge watched the next two so here’s my thoughts on your guys thoughts on Robert Jordans thoughts he wrote down on paper. Highest rate was a 6 for world building through three books. This guy. The definition of modern fantasy over epic. Nothing wrong with that, but we’re being forced to sift through the same conversations for him to inevitably say that “as an epic fantasy, it’s thee standard.” This is the classic WoT fan vs the world, if someone isn’t hooked by book two just drop it. RJ doesn’t change and by the time you get to Sanderson you’ll rue the day you decided to suffer through an epic when you could’ve read something you like. It’s not that you won’t come to love the wheel of time, you most likely will. Your issue with the series is the presentation of the series and that doesn’t change. I’d imagine the fandom will give you plenty of views on here, and if you keep at this pace you’ll be able to constantly make content on Show vs Books, and I will probably listen to all of them- just know Black hair guy, you’re allowing Robert Jordan to be your deciding factor on epic fantasy in which you clearly could’ve chosen other authors more your speed- and hope that you’ll take the Tolkien glasses off to read this series at some point. Your EOTW critique- while fair- was a huge red flag in this journey lol. If you determined the works derivative, you would’ve done well to look into RJ a little bit before continuing! Your bald friend did very little on camera to assure you that RJ was intentional in his homage! Everything after that has seemed to be a comparison directly between authors you love, who write a style you love, against a pure epic fantasy which clearly isn’t your preference. Almost upsetting to see you read so much and not see what’s actually happening. That all probably sounded a little harsh and I apologize if you feel that way. Hopefully TSR will prove to you that often times it’s you who needs a change in perspective… flicker

[@2ToRamble]

Black hair guy here - not harsh at all, your thoughts make sense and will do best to keep an open mind - cheers!

[@rj1968]

You guys always make some good points on why you like or dislike something. In the cases of RR, WoT, and SA, I'm on the fanboys side everytime. Seeing y'all talk down on these series makes me wonder, who hurt you? Haha WoT is worth it, keep reading for Sanderson Austin. Believe in me who believes in Sanderson who believes in you (maybe).

[@2ToRamble]

😂😂. Now I must read them all. Great comment

[@ScottBass]

Austin must read all 14, and must commit now to a re-read of all 14. In exchange, I will watch every second of a chapter by chapter analysis of Red Rising.

[@2ToRamble]

How can I ever turn this down…I am trapped

[@akshaybanker8552]

I would buy "teeter my totter"... Also, I think Austin is done. My prediction, he will give Shadow Rising a 6. I also agree with Richard that you have to see these books as a series and not chapters. Good job guys.. Love both takes

[@2ToRamble]

Appreciate it! And good prediction, I can totally see that score happening - more to come 🤝

[@fine_nib_witch]

I have so many thoughts! I just started book 12 yesterday... just for context. * On Mat, man, I absolutely despised his character. At the beginning I found myself mostly thinking "why is this guy such a fan favorite? he sucks so much" I hated everything about his buffoonery, but now I'm like "yeah, he is pretty awesome" some time along the way I changed my mind on Mat, and I didn't even notice! * Book 4 has some really interesting stuff in it. So I think you're onto something Austin. He (Robert Jordan) definitely feels more reserved all around in books 1-3. I didn't start getting invested until the Rhuidean chapters of book 4, and I think that's when Rand starts getting real interesting. * I still agree with Austin about everything, but I'll give it to Richard, that it seems like the character work gets better as the story goes on. It's just happening veeeerrryyyy slowly. * I'm not super invested still, here at the beginning of book 12, but I finally got to the Sanderson books, so I'm really curious to see if I have the same gripes still or if it sticks the landing. * I also have problems with the prose, and I find the repetitiveness of description annoying. Like at this point, I just groan out loud when I see/hear arms folding beneath breasts, or braid tugging. I can't stand it anymore, it drives me off the wall. That type of repetitive descriptor is my least favorite thing about these books. * Lastly, I think y'all should finish this read and series! I'm really curious to see if Austin changes his mind along the way on some stuff too. It makes me feel very validated to hear his thoughts on this, cause for a long time I felt like I was just not reading the same books as everyone else. Though I'll understand if he decides to not finish it.

[@2ToRamble]

Thanks for all the thoughts- we’re going to keep going, and glad to see you had similar thoughts as me and although it hasnt totally hooked you yet, seems like things are getting better. Hope the Sando books do it for ya 🙌