A look at the lowest cost micro controllers. More details on my blog: electronupdate.blogspot.com/2... Bought from distribution: lcsc.com Vendor: www.padauk.com.tw
Пікірлер: 103
@bigclivedotcom4 жыл бұрын
Very interesting. Since finding the Padauk microcontrollers I've had a strange urge to use them in trashy applications and also see how far the software can be crushed to make them do great things.
@MrOrangeman184 жыл бұрын
bigclivedotcom I have a feeling your not the only one 😉
@adamrak75604 жыл бұрын
Can you try to erase it by xray? Because flash should be erasable by ionizing radiation, and UV is blocked by the package. It probably not worth to erase, it is cheaper to replace.
@negativesaucer4 жыл бұрын
@@adamrak7560 most EPROMs nowadays are EEPROMs, meaning ELECTRICALLY erasable programmable read-only memory. There is a variant of this chip that you can reflash, the PFS154C
@negativesaucer4 жыл бұрын
@@snarkylive Way to demonstrate that you have no idea what the hell you're talking about.
@annaplojharova14004 жыл бұрын
The power transistor on the top is telling me, it is not any charge based memory (nor Eprom, nor eeprom, nor flash; those need higher voltage at nearly no current). The high current device suggests it is some high current zapping memory (programming a cell actually means blowing out a diode or something dimilar), so truly physically an OTP (once blown, the component just can not be "unblown"). These use to be way more compact arrays than any of the charge based cell (contain a very small Zener, so two minimal contacts, plus a selection vertical PNP - one minimal contact for the emitter, the base is the column select NWell stripe), so all is about the size of a minimal MOS in the given process. Flash needs a capacitor, one selection and one tunneling MOS, so about 3 or 4 minimal MOS size per bit cell. Beside the size, the other advantage is the state does not depend on any floating charge, so in principle no data retention problems. The only drawback is the impossibility to reprogram and the high currents needed for programming.
@Najvalsa4 жыл бұрын
A bit about the cost of these, since I was curious: - They're using Magnachip Semiconductor and Powerchip Semiconductor Manufacturing to manufacture these chips. - The oldest logic node that they provide is 180 nm, which uses a 200 mm wafer. - If you tune the scribe spacing, edge loss, and defect density, they're producing 75000 chips per wafer. - The slightly conservative 180 nm wafer cost is $700. - Which means that each one of these costs $0.01 to produce. - Take away the retailer margin, packaging, and maybe shipping, and Padauk's easily got a 50%+ margin on these.
@Waccoon4 жыл бұрын
Good grief... I thought the smallest die that was practical was 1mm in any dimension. The mechanical means of cutting and handling these chips is just as impressive as the lithography! Hats off to you, sir. Teardowns are always fascinating, even for a mere 3 cent part. 8)
@rkan24 жыл бұрын
Meh, a whole smartphone SoC will fit on 10x10mm :P It just just a matter putting small enough contacts on it :P
@excitedbox57054 жыл бұрын
@@rkan2 Yea the pads on this die are almost 25% of the chip.
@the_eminent_Joshua_E_Hrouda4 жыл бұрын
Have you ever seen a 0201 size SMD LED?? Or a 008004 cap/inductor? Amazing!!
@DesertVox4 жыл бұрын
This is blasphemy, for someone in the 1950s who spent $5000 on a giant processor with capabilities that was less than this dirt-cheap, energy-efficient, ultra-portable, disposable MCU.
@TomaszStachewicz4 жыл бұрын
this is progress!
@Bishka1004 жыл бұрын
I bet your $5000 processor was steam driven wasn't it :-)
@faidularcs4 жыл бұрын
@Silently Sceptical that's was a clock / timer basic
@XtreeM_FaiL4 жыл бұрын
That thing is cheaper than a washer.
@anonimuso4 жыл бұрын
I can just picture some old engineer from the 1950s seeing this processor and making the sign of the cross.
@ssj3gohan4564 жыл бұрын
The funny thing about this is that there were already 5 cent name brand, reflashable chips since the early 2000s in lowend Microchip PICs and Atmel Tiny4. But just through the economics of distributors it was hard to actually buy them for less than ~15 cents. This 3 cent micro is mostly a marvel of efficient trading rather than efficient process engineering! How can they turn a profit on such low margins?
@supremebohnenstange41024 жыл бұрын
Scale
@cpufreak1014 жыл бұрын
As he pointed out, you get over 50,000 chips per wafer, $0.03X50,000=$1,500. There's definitely money to be made.
@monad_tcp Жыл бұрын
@@cpufreak101 so that means the cost for the entire wafer being made is less than $1500, amazing
@englishrupe012 ай бұрын
Really cool teardown. Many thanks for showing this.
@goosenp4 жыл бұрын
Finally! I remember asking you to decap this a few months back :)
@zukjeff4 жыл бұрын
welcome back , good to hear your voice again. It would have been nice to have matched the pinout with the die to see if any of the special functions on the pins were visible. Also to have compared the 5 pin version to see if the same auto layout was used or if a fresh layout was run. thanks !
@bn8803 ай бұрын
his voice is annoyingly imprecise and mumbling, but good tech videos
@Javantea4 жыл бұрын
You wrote a typo in the video title, it's Padauk not Paduak. Thanks very much for the excellent video. I am fascinated by these chips and built a programmer so that I can play around with the open source tools that have been built around these inexpensive microcontrollers.
@electronupdate4 жыл бұрын
good catch. thanks! title updated
@beargun424 жыл бұрын
Spelling error is still present in the thumbnail image.
@masaratech4 жыл бұрын
@Javantea could provide any links for an open source programmer for these uC ?
@stupossibleify4 жыл бұрын
What are those irregular circular structures within the gate logic? An artifact of acid etching?
@NicksStuff6 ай бұрын
What a fantastic video!
@danielmamaghani4 жыл бұрын
Great video, thanks.
@TheDrunkenMug4 жыл бұрын
Very interesting, thank you !
@avejst4 жыл бұрын
Wow, simple and good enough thanks for sharing :-)
@markiangooley4 жыл бұрын
Padauk wood is great stuff. I really enjoyed using it in furniture. Wonder why they chose the name...
@moth.monster4 жыл бұрын
I've played Shenzhen I/O, I got this
@ThePC0074 жыл бұрын
Literally, the first thing I thought about when seeing the video title.
@MandrakeFernflower4 жыл бұрын
Reminds me of the memes posted on old computer repair videos where you had to debug TTL "I'm a redstone engineering prodigy don't worry lads I got this"
@atc14414 жыл бұрын
Hi my friend. Take also a look at the WCH CH551, CH552, CH553 and CH554 amd decap them. I made a video on how to prgramm them and i wonder if in all 4 of them is the same but just software locked. They are super cheap 8051 micros with usb support and the ch554 even has usb host. And they have an integrated usb bootloader. They are useable with just 2 caps and thats it.
@ovalwingnut4 жыл бұрын
I didn't want it to end 😯 So InTeReStInG. Thank you for bringing such a nitch subject to the interested masses 😉
@totalrandomtechnolog4 жыл бұрын
I really love these silicon analysis of yours. I don't know if you're aware of the long gone 3Dfx video cards. I have a dead Voodoo Banshee that i would be willing to sent you if you're willing to shows us it's die under the microscope :)
@totalrandomtechnolog4 жыл бұрын
I also have a Voodoo 2 which doesn't work.
@MrShwaggins4 жыл бұрын
@@totalrandomtechnolog why you talking to yourself, bruh?
@tze-ven Жыл бұрын
Are you sure it is NOR Flash? PMC150 is an OTP MCU and is non-reprogrammable.
@rockets4kids4 жыл бұрын
Anyone have an estimate on the number of transistors used by the CPU? (excluding flash and peripherals)
@statinskill4 жыл бұрын
rockets4kids A 6502 fits into about 4500 transistors, add some more for about 128 bytes of static ram flip-flops, I/Os. Maybe that chip has around 6000. This is no NPX LPC810 of course which has a 30MHz 32-bit arm cortex-m0+ , 1K static ram, 4K flash, 4 timers, 4 pwm, 4 uarts, 6 GPIO etc., but that part is already around $1.30. All the same, I'm disturbed to see foreign economies develop their own solutions, things like these can come back to bite us.
@googacct4 жыл бұрын
After decapping the ic, can it be wire bonded back onto the board and still work?
@alexv.d.h.73314 жыл бұрын
Maybe, but considering these are literally 3 cents i don't think anyone's gonna go trough the trouble of doing that.
@googacct4 жыл бұрын
Actually I do have a wege bonder and if it were working I would give it a try myself. Just see if it could be done.
@Lauren_C4 жыл бұрын
So you mean to tell me tyat a finished 4" wafer costs less than $250? Also, wonder what the profit margin is on these things.
@electronupdate4 жыл бұрын
Here is a good study on wafer cost: anysilicon.com/major-pure-play-foundries-revenue-per-wafer-2017-2018/ 8" (200 mm wafer). $625 ~53,000 dies per wafer 1.18 cents per part......
@annaplojharova14004 жыл бұрын
I doubt they are using only 4", I would rather guess for at least 8". The simple reason is the cost: 8" could be about 50% more expensive wafer than the 4", but contains 4x more of the final chips. So at the end offers at least 3x lower silicon cost per chip.
@lloydtshare4 жыл бұрын
I want to know how they cut the wafer
@valent_t2 жыл бұрын
Zero quantitiy on ALL web stores I looked, does anyone know of a source of these chips?
@LeuxSeveN4 жыл бұрын
this is extremely interresting, I would like to know what you can use them for / aka, can someone direkt me to a chanel where I can learn about such micro controlers. I would like to lern to use them, I have just no understanding what good they are. ^^"""
@oilybrakes4 жыл бұрын
Dave from the EEV Blog took a look at it. Dunno if someome actually did domething useful with it though. Coding has to be done in assembler, which is not exactly popular.
@dakkanTM4 жыл бұрын
Toys
@delicious_lunch38234 жыл бұрын
@@oilybrakes Not entirely true, in Dave's videos he demonstrates a C compiler that came with the programmer, though it was for something called "mini-C" which was made up by the manufacturer and not ANSI at all. So it's C like and not actually C, but importantly it's not assembly,
@electronic79794 жыл бұрын
👍
@StreuB14 жыл бұрын
This was ABSOLUTELY fascinating!!!! I would like to know more as to HOW they make these features on the silicon at this level. Simply unreal!
@kaboom5554 жыл бұрын
Plenty of videos on photolithography on youtube, but a very quick, inaccurate primer: Coat silicon wafer in photosensitive polymer, place stencil over ir, expose to ultraviolet light, develop photosensitive polymer, clear the unexposed parts. Now the areas of the silicon that were under those parts are bare, and the rest of the die is still covered in the polymer. Submerge wafer in acid to eat away part of the silicon in those bare areas. Wash. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat...
@kaboom5554 жыл бұрын
Also, the size of the features shown in this video is many, many thosands of times bigger than modern 7-10-14nm processes. This is decades old technology, current processes are toying with sizes where the individual transistor gates are a few dozens of atoms wide.
@StreuB14 жыл бұрын
@@kaboom555 WOW!!! Thank you for the explanation!!! How in gods name do they create a stencil with details THAT small and fine!?! Also, how does the acid get into those tiny gaps to eat away the silicon when you have surface tension to deal with?? How does the acid wick into gaps THAT thin? Normally surface tension would prohibit that. Thats unreal!!
@kaboom5554 жыл бұрын
@@StreuB1 that's where the inaccuracies in my explanation start... It used to be an actual hand drawn stencil, which was then projected onto the wafer with a lens that made the image smaller, the opposite of binoculars. Nowadays it's made, I believe, with laser light and interference patterns. As for the etching process itself and surface tension, no idea...
@Bishka1004 жыл бұрын
And it is still more powerful than Colossus with its 2400 tubes.
@NapanTR4 жыл бұрын
What can be done with this chip (generally speaking)?
@davidgustafik79684 жыл бұрын
Lots of things. Replacement of simple circuitry (think replacing a 555 and a few logic ICs), in simple tech (battery chargers, drills, PWM controllers, dimmers)...
@bigclivedotcom4 жыл бұрын
Whatever you can code into 1024 bytes of memory and use 6 pins for. My RGB controllers use less than 1K of assembly code. This chip could be used for IR transmitters and receivers, timers and controlling things like hand dryers and flashlights.
@simontay48514 жыл бұрын
But only if you know how to write code for them. I don't. but i could easily build a circuit using a 555 (or even multiple 555s) +logic to do a certain task. No expensive programmer or debugging lots of lines of code needed. You design a schematic and PCB layout, then you build it and it just works. anyone that looks at can see how it works by just reverse engineering the PCB.
@Mitchellcurriedotcom4 жыл бұрын
A lot can be done with it, assuming the tool sets exist. I think SDCC May support it. ATTINY is obviously easier but for the price point, yeah wow. Cheaper than STM8
@RealWorldPolice4 жыл бұрын
Simon Tay - I know, right? Integration is such a fad.
@R3lay04 жыл бұрын
But can it run crysis?
@anonimuso4 жыл бұрын
Give it time...
@qwertykeyboard59014 жыл бұрын
Yes, turing complete
@arduinoguru72334 жыл бұрын
@@anonimuso @ 1 FRAME PER MILLION YEAR OH YEAH .
@weerobot4 жыл бұрын
Waiting for 3 Cent Supercomputer...lol
@movax20h4 жыл бұрын
Wouldn't using a cutoff wheels to separate these dies from wafer produce a lot of waste and wasted space?
@hamsteerio4 жыл бұрын
Can it run crisis?
@unclejoeoakland4 жыл бұрын
I just find it hillarious that this chip is named after a bright orange lumber.
@Mikere54 жыл бұрын
Taiwan please. NOT China
@Mikere53 жыл бұрын
@@BLRSharpLight Sure, but no connection to the PRC as much as the PRC would like everyone to believe
@Mikere53 жыл бұрын
@@BLRSharpLight Taiwan no longer claims Mainland China. You need to read up a bit. This changed some years ago. Taiwan is in the process of removing the word ”China “ from its passport, national airline and many other Government bodies. I live here and am well versed in the CURRENT situation. You are quoting history. There is also a strong movement to change Taiwans name away from ROC and make it officially Taiwan.
@elchippe Жыл бұрын
@@Mikere5 no no no the DPP do not claim mainland China, the KMT in the other hand they considered themselves the legitimate rulers of all China, from the Pakistan-Indian border to the South China Sea.
@DavidMadeira294 жыл бұрын
"How much, instead, for a cheap USB converter?! Designer's guild..." 🗨😏♨️⛼🌌
@admin88hk4 жыл бұрын
Any tutorials to program it, and any tools using ArduinoIDE to develop the code.
@vanhetgoor4 жыл бұрын
Yes, and what can it do? I can emagine that two of the connectors are for the power, and two connectors are for communication, and that all interaction goes with typing in Morse-code.
@rkan24 жыл бұрын
China???? Taiwan!
@statinskill4 жыл бұрын
I think it is disturbing that China has these capabilities at all.
@elchippe Жыл бұрын
The company is from Taiwan not mainland China, but yes China have the capability of making chips for almost 40 years? SMIC was founded in 2000 and they started with a 250nm process node, smaller process node than this MCU who is probably made in 350nm process node.
@nieldewet53154 жыл бұрын
You desperately need a better microphone
@Aaron_b_c4 жыл бұрын
This video looks incredibly interesting if I could understand what was being said. Please get a better microphone and stop mumbling