3 English Ale Yeasts [Side By Side Comparison!] - Brew Dudes

[@TheAlchemistsBrewery]

Great experiment! S-04 gives off fusel alcohols or esters or both. Not phenols. And it only does that at high fermentation temperatures. So that was the cause. It should never be left alone at ambient temperature as it will rise the temperature on its own. If you do this again, but ferment it from start to finish at 64°F you will have no problem. This is what I do.

[@BrewDudes]

Thanks for the insights. I have brewed with S04 a ton and like many people I think the quality of its output has diminished over the years. But that could also be my own palate preferences drifting over time. Cheers! -Mike

[@ajoyce]

Crazy flash back to some weird times.

[@CharlesBland]

London III/1318 - I switched to this from S-04 a while ago and love it for everything ale.

[@BrewDudes]

Noted! That would be a good one to try. - John

[@thaifoodtakeaway]

You should try the Wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire Ale. Pretty amazing stuff

[@mattpeppe5081]

Second this. This is my secret weapon in British Ales. Learned about it from Jamil on Can You Brew It? years ago, it's his personal favorite British yeast.

[@jay91bable]

Also on board with the West Yorkshire. I find that It gets a bit better after a couple weeks of cold conditioning.

[@BrewDudes]

Thanks!

[@BrewDudes]

Interesting - thank you!

[@BrewDudes]

Thanks!

[@vikramjitsingh4538]

hey its so nice to see u guys hang out again and do these videos........in covid days......thanks again and stay safe, John and Mikey......cheers

[@BrewDudes]

Cheers! -Mike

[@julianstanbury620]

I've split a 5 gallon batch into 6 x 1g demis. Pitched 6 different yeasts. It's really amazing how different the results were. I aged them, and the results increased in differences. All yeasts were dry. Ale was golden. Great vid gents. Thank you.

[@BrewDudes]

It is amazing and I'd recommend it to anyone to brew a batch get a couple small fermentors and just split your batch between a yeast you normally use and something unexpected. Just to try it. The best part is that you learn more about the yeast you usually use and you get to know it even better. Cheers! -Mike

[@ElaborateTrolling]

As a British brewer, i demand you try "Thames valley 2". Other than that, this was a fantastic video.

[@ElaborateTrolling]

I use it in all bitters and browns, makes an acceptable IPA as well.

[@BrewDudes]

Thames is something I've worked with a few times in the past but need to get it back in to try out. Good suggestion! Cheers! -Mike

[@ElaborateTrolling]

@@BrewDudes Thames is good but make sure you get "thames valley ale TWO" it has massive esters that taste like plums and nectarines!

[@ElaborateTrolling]

or dont, i'm not your mother

[@djup_skogen]

A seemingly less used but interesting strain is the WLP023 Burton Ale Yeast. I have enjoyed it in my bitters - a distinct flavor with a good amount of fruity esters. It reminds me of cask ales I have had in the UK. (I guess this is the same strain as the Thames valley from Wyeast mentioned by others)

[@bretonleo8740]

Burton ale is definitely a special one, and make some impressive krausens

[@BrewDudes]

Noted!

[@BrewDudes]

Noted!

[@davidpotter6564]

I'm a big fan of the WYeast 1469 West Yorkshire. Doesn't attenuate that well but it's a good performer and has a nice balanced nutty flavour. Does well in bitter and I love it in a mild.

[@BrewDudes]

Noted!

[@torbjornkarlsen]

Horray! Super interesting guys! I can't wait for next episode! Here's a strain for you which I've used a couple of times: Wyeast 1469.

[@BrewDudes]

Yes West Yorkshire is at the top of my wish list too. -Mike

[@CrazyAboutVinylRecords]

Interesting video. Thanks! I'm glad that I haven't been brewing as long as you guys. I haven't reached the point yet where I am constantly picking nits with my beer and looking for improvements. I'm just glad to get a batch of beer that I really like (nearly all of them are). I'm definitely a "if it ain't broke don't fix it kind of guy." I just made a 5.5 gallon batch of Extra Special Bitter and used Fermentis Safale S-04. The batch has only been fermenting for 2 1/2 days, it is already about 90% of the way there, and should finish at about 5.2% ABV in a couple of more days. I took a small taste of the sample I drew to take a gravity reading and damn it just seemed spot on for the style. I think it is going to turn out to be an excellent beer.

[@Barney5G]

This is so great. We need more of this experiment. More English strains please.

[@BrewDudes]

Patience young grasshopper! Stay tuned. Cheers! - Mike

[@brianbarker2670]

Great info guys, thank you. Lately I've been using WLP002 for British style amber ales and porters. Be interested in your opinion on this liquid yeast.

[@SteveT__001]

They have a WLP002 comparison here kzbin.info/www/bejne/e3qbfoGjra6SZsk

[@BrewDudes]

I have brewed some OK stouts with 002. - John

[@BrewDudes]

Thanks Steve - one of these videos isn't ours but it's helpful. -John

[@SteveT__001]

@@BrewDudes I must be going senile, I'm not even sure why that link was on there, not even relevant lol, anyway its gone now.

[@owencampbell138]

Excellent video. Drinking a English ale I brewed with s04 and I know exactly what you mean on the “home brew” taste

[@kevinkeehn4523]

Have you noticed or anyone reading this, that Safale04 has changed? This is not the same yeast it was 10 years ago. The way it behaves and flavor profile is different and in my opinion superior.

[@BrewDudes]

I hadn't thought of that. I always assumed maybe my tastes have changed, not that the yeast itself had changed. Interesting idea. I haven't heard from anyone if that has been the case. Cool. -Mike

[@matthewkaiser310]

I love the yeast comparisons! I need to start trying experiments like this myself. Until I do, please keep these videos coming guys! Cheers!!

[@BrewDudes]

More to come!

[@DavidTowles]

I don't really like S-04 either, but I've found that with a couple weeks of lagering, it does improve dramatically and stops tasting as much of homebrew.

[@BrentLangdon]

Great video. I love doing split batches with different yeasts. I did one last year with S-04 vs WLP013. I picked up WLP013 London Ale to try something new and fell in love with it for Brown Ale, Porter, Mild style beers (I threw it at a few NEIPAs without much success). The White Labs description says "Oak ester character" but I think tobacco is more accurate. WLP002 is the most "homebrewey" yeast to me. I have been wanted to throw WLP004 Irish Ale at some different styles as well...it is such an easy yeast to work with.

[@BrewDudes]

Thanks for your comment. That London ale strain is great for those English styles that you list. - John

[@patrickbarnes140]

Love to see a brown or mild with West Yorkshire

[@davidpotter6564]

Another vote for West Yorkshire.

[@BrewDudes]

Noted!

[@BrewDudes]

Noted!

[@oldschoolman1444]

I repitch us05 and 04 all the time. Much better on repitch, making a starter helps too. Usually have airlock bubbling in an hour.

[@BrewDudes]

Thanks for the info. - John

[@rickostrander6711]

Great stuff as always. I just brewed a Nut Brown with WLP005 instead of my standard, inexpensive SafeAle 04. Impatiently waiting for it to carbonate to see how it came out. Keep the yeast experiments coming!

[@BrewDudes]

Let us know how it works out for you! Cheers! -Mike

[@nathanparry8315]

In my experience S04 needs a bit of time on the yeast after FG to really clean up. Longer than others. At least 2 weeks in primary. WLP007 is good to cold crash in 7-10 days.

[@brandonedwards9001]

Glad you guys liked 007 as I, too, have come to like that strain in browns!

[@BrewDudes]

Sweet validation! Cheers! -Mike

[@jimbolittle2243]

I like it. The last two times that I brewed with Nottingham I got the coppery taste. I will say that it took off and firmented like a champ though.

[@BrewDudes]

Noted!

[@rickbosley6246]

I've been hoping for someone to do yeast experiments for awhile, greatly appreciate it. My yeast collection continues to grow, and videos like this definitely give me extra data points. Cheers guys!

[@BrewDudes]

Nice! That's why we do it! Thanks for commenting. Cheers! -Mike

[@Soupy_loopy]

It's interesting, but I'm not too surprised by this one. I use Rahr sometimes when I'm going for a more malt forward style, or even as a substitute for English pale malts. I think your assessment is spot on. Now I'm wondering though, how does Rahr compare to Briess pale ale malt? Because Briess has become the base malt for most of my American ales lately. I think the Briess is lighter, cleaner, allowing more hop character, but I don't know if I would actually notice a difference in the side by side comparison? Edit: this was supposed to be a comment on the malt comparison video, but KZbin went on to a different video. LOL

[@barrycranston5122]

Put an English IPA into kegs today, used WLP007 and I am very happy with the beer. Nottingham is also very good IMHO. Give WLP013 London a try.

[@BrewDudes]

Thanks for the suggestions! Cheers! -Mike

[@anthonyhernandez7694]

You should try Wyeast 1098 or WLP-005 British Ale Yeast. I used it for my Irish Red Ale and turned out fantastic. It left the beer dry and crisp (just how I like my Irish Reds) but it still let the malt shine. It has low esters as well.

[@BrewDudes]

Noted!

[@HarrieNetel]

John & Mike -- this is a fantastic video!! I always love your SMASH videos and now you've one-upped yourselves and come up with another awesome series (I hope). Can't believe we get to enjoy this great content for free :). In terms of requests for future yeast comparisons, as a 100% dry yeast brewer (long story) I've done my own comparison on a brown ale with Nottingham and Windsor, although the beers were brewed almost a year apart. Would love to see you guys include these in a side-by-side comparison to see what your thoughts on these two are. Either way please keep the awesome videos coming!!

[@BrewDudes]

I think we are leaning that way for the next attempt so stay tuned. Wait? Free content? You didn't get the invoice I sent you? Oh well! Cheers! -Mike

[@ejmillion]

Great video guys, it's winter down here in Aus and I've been brewing a lot of dark beers with 04 and Nottingham, love to see one with Nottingham as this seems to be my favourite. I definitely get your description of the home brew taste with 04, but I still enjoy that in dark beers. I'd also love to see you throw in WLP004 Irish Ale Yeast

[@BrewDudes]

There has always been something strange about how WLP004 works great in Stout, but lacks something in other styles IMO. But its a good suggestion. Cheers! -Mike

[@jay91bable]

Awesome video guys! love see the English brewing content. I did a comparison of fullers and west yorkshire last winter. I found that the fullers was better in the first week because it was a bit more fuller (no pun intended). then after a couple weeks the west yorkshire developed an amazing aroma and flavor, and what seemed like a thin beer before was now just nice, crisp and delicious. FYI West yorkshire has a krausen then does not go away. it sure if it is the correct thing to do, but I just swirl the fermenter to make it fall.

[@BrewDudes]

Nice - thanks for sharing! - John

[@boojea10981]

Awesome video guys, thank you! My yeast vote is for West Yorkshire!

[@BrewDudes]

Oh Yes! I forgot about that one. I'll see if I can find it. Isn't it a seasonal strain usually? Maybe someone carries it full time now. -Mike

[@boojea10981]

That strain should be available full time now. I haven’t had any issues ordering it.

[@grahamhawes7089]

Loooove this content. I'm a huge fan of English strains. I know you mentioned that you've moved away from 002, but it'd still be interesting to see in a future experiment alongside other yeasts. My favorites are 002 (ESB), London Ale III, and 007 (Dry). I've had great results with 002 in ESBs (big surprise) - somehow it really seems to pump up that unique EKG flavor, specifically. I've also had great results with 007 in semi-traditional IPAs... Lately, though, I've moved to London Ale III to accompany the "tropical" style hops in my IPAs - I find that it really ramps up those "juicy fruit" flavors. Though I haven't been a huge fan of S-04 in the past, I recently did an oatmeal stout with it. I thought the beer had very strong "bready" esters that were perfect for the style, and made a great beer, but would have be terrible in something lighter or more hop-forward.

[@BrewDudes]

Great input. Thanks. Maybe ESB is a fairer test for WLP002 than a brown... shouldn't be but who knows! -Mike

[@RichardCockerill]

i do like the colour of the brown,looking good Mate

[@BrewDudes]

Thanks! I loved it too. Cheers! -Mike

[@JohannesReppin]

great comparison! Now throw Irish Ale into the mix (1084?), my favourite "english style" ale yeast.

[@BrewDudes]

Noted!

[@jonthebeau4653]

Love this type of content looking forward to more comparisons. I use S-04 quite a bit for ipa and stout and while it’s not my favorite it always does pretty well for me. I have used Lallemand’s ESB yeast a couple of times now and both times it had the lowest attenuation of anything I have used. You guys should throw that in the next English yeast mix.

[@HafMpty]

I had a similar experience with the ESB yeast. Quite a bit lower attenuation than expected. Good to see I’m not the only one.

[@Thomas225T]

Also used Lallemand’s ESB last year for a bitter, u need to mash low and not use too much crystal malts because it cant ferment maltotriose, I got it to finnish at 1.013 or something like that. Did it flocullate well for u ? Mine didnt want to clear at all, but I didnt know about gelatine back then...

[@BrewDudes]

Noted!

[@BrewDudes]

Noted!

[@BrewDudes]

It will be a good one to try. - John

[@Tricky_Adventures]

Love British Browns; I've been using S04 without any issues, but I think next time I will try instead WLP007. Glad to see a good yeast comparison for browns. As for Nottingham, I've used it once and it stalled on me. First time that ever occurred. Looking online I had found some others that experienced same. Wound up creating a starter with a different strain and pitching that in and the beer finished. I don't plan on using Nottingham again, but who knows maybe the yeast gods didn't favor me that day.

[@BrewDudes]

I sort of moved to WLP007 as a way of getting a little more attenuation over the years. Thanks for the comment! Cheers! -Mike

[@kevinmcpherson4379]

Thanks for making a brown ale esp w/ ringwood! Love the buttery biscuit taste, bummed it didnt show up much.

[@BrewDudes]

This is a great comment. Goes to show people that we all have different palates and some of us like things others don't. Thanks for posting. More English yeast comps to come. Cheers! -Mike

[@iliffavenuebrewhouse6496]

Not sure what your ferment temp was but I have to keep S04 below 67-68 to avoid the funkiness.

[@BrewDudes]

Agreed! Cheers! -Mike

[@davidrogers6262]

Great comparison! I did a BGA with Nottingham with Giggles and hands down my favorite so far but I'm willing to try a different one that you might rank higher?

[@BrewDudes]

Noted!

[@yochris77]

Nice one boys! Do you get Mangrove Jacks yeast over there? Liberty Bell M36

[@BrewDudes]

I do see it occasionally. Maybe we I see it next I'll grab a package. Cheers! -Mike

[@michaelm3004]

Really great Keep this type coming.

[@BrewDudes]

Will do! -Mike

I experienced a similar thing s04 always gets homebrewy. I think that my pitch is not sufficient. Not a huge fan of it overall.

[@BrewDudes]

Thanks for the info!

[@1861313]

Another great video thank you guys. One of my favourite yeast is 04. In my experiance it is great for bottle conditioning. The beer can change a lot in time. From a little under attenuation and estery beer to a dry and mature one. If only we can have the patience. :D Thank you and have a nice day. Cheers!

[@BrewDudes]

So cool to hear about SO4. Some love it others avoid it. I have used it a ton. This time around though, I wasn't a fan. Maybe it was an off batch I don't know. More experimentation is needed. Cheers! -Mike

[@543diditwork]

@@BrewDudes I have a breakfast stout I make using S-04. Never perceived the phenol character, though it could be hidden in the style. The beer is ok after a few weeks, but amazing after 5 months.

[@playingwithdata]

Great stuff, guys. I'm curious what temp increase is implied by the free-rise you mention. S-04 can certainly throw tantrums if it gets north of 21-22C early on in my experience. Some suggestions for possible dry yeast contestants would be Mangrove Jacks M15 Empire or M42 New World. They've both been rebranded to sound less "British" but they were originally "M03 Newcastle Dark Ale" and "M07 British Ale". M15 is the more interesting option IMO, but I'm not sure it will attenuate enough for what you seem to be looking for.

[@BrewDudes]

Noted on the yeast strains. I am not sure how warm the fermentation got but my guess is that they got to 22C because of the time of year and where Mike ferments (basement). He may have more information. - John

[@thebackyardbrewer5611]

In order of preference I'd love to see London ESB strain or the Windsor ale yeast strain for the next video! Im currently brewing an English porter with nottingham

[@Thomas225T]

I have used the London ESB strain in a bitter last year, didnt like it that much, but I used fuggles and styrian hops in it so mby it was that and not the yeast, but still, u need to mash low or it will end up in 1.020-ish, takes forever to ferment, and doesnt flocculate all that well... never again. But I still have a windsor yeast in my fridge so I wonder how that would perform.

[@BrewDudes]

Noted!

[@BrewDudes]

Give it a try!

[@ejcandrin]

Interesting that 007 won out over S-04 given that they are both commonly thought to be the whitbread strain. With that in mind, I would love to see a liquid v. dry comparison with Lallemand London ESB v. Nottingham v. White Labs WLP002 v. WLP007. I believe dry yeasts take off more quickly because they're packaged with other compounds (e.g. desiccated membranes, salts, proteins) that the yeast use as resources for replication, reducing lag time.

[@BrewDudes]

I think the dry takes off because the liquid strains are stressed out by the time they get to us on the east coast. Just a theory and I have no really proof. Its all anecdotal based on reports of how fast others report their beers starting that live in the west. Cheers! -Mike

[@nathanparry8315]

S04 and WLP007 are indeed whitbread but they are not the same strain at all. WLP007 is whitbread dry. S04 is not

[@mickerzsnickerz]

Wyeast 1318 London Ale III. My go to English strain.

[@BrewDudes]

Noted!

[@iflanzy]

Nottingham and Windsor?

[@BrewDudes]

Noted for Nottingham!

[@ahausmann0788]

I want to start doing these types of Experiments. What type of equipment do you have to do these small batch sizes?

[@BrewDudes]

For these beers I am experimenting with BIAB, because I crank out single variable beers a little faster at lower volume boils. I also have several 3 gallon fermentors, plastic carboys/better bottles. For this brown ale experiment though I made a full 8 gallons of wort and split it into the fermentors for the yeast comparison. Cheers! -Mike

[@victhomas7729]

I like your format .keep it up. Try wlp023 i get good results. Vic from NZ.

[@BrewDudes]

Thanks for the comment! Cheers! -Mike

[@kirkhutchins3424]

It is said that S-04 IS the Whitbread strain.

[@carlkessler303]

How about S-33?

[@jonathanhillman9364]

Fermenting an English Ale with 04 too, about 7 days in. Didn’t have my keezer available for temp control, basement temps are 68 to low 70’s. Fermentation temps hit 78 degrees internal at its peak. What was your max temp? Your thoughts on my high temp of 78 for that 04 yeast?

[@BrewDudes]

I've had it go high like that and maybe that is the source of the weirdness in that sample this beer. I like to start my english yeasts under 68F and then I like to let them finish around 72F so they get as dry as they can get. Cheers! -Mike

[@thegingerpowerranger]

Did you guys agree on the uniform before shooting the video?

[@BrewDudes]

As always. Cheers! -Mike

[@bretonleo8740]

I made 1 or 2 great beers with Ringwood especially when fermented at room temp but I stopped using it, I think I don't know how to handle the yeast well, like you I experimented very long lag times, I also got one going sour because of the lag time in the passt Since it's an infamous yeast like you said It could be a yeast freshness issue.

[@BrewDudes]

Yeah. I'd like to know more about using it too, but its not a yeast I think I am willing to invest time into. Thanks for you're input! Cheers! -Mike

[@JimmyJusa]

1275? Thames valley, or 1318. Whatever version/analog you can get.

[@BrewDudes]

Noted!

[@kingneptune8120]

S04 i avoid at all cost. i could spend the time and brew all grain and it comes out tasting like i did a extract kit.. I'm done using that yeast!

[@BrewDudes]

Yes! I like the dissent for SO4. I've brewed with it a ton in the past and I've sort of gotten away from it too. This batch sort of turned me off from it. I need more research with it in the future before I totally cast it off. Cheers! -Mike

[@omarpadilla4739]

Control your temps ive had zero issues with S04 at 66 F

[@tylerb6081]

I vote WY1318 next time. Such a great yeast.

[@BrewDudes]

Noted!

[@omarpadilla4739]

Control your temps ive had zero issues with S04

[@cheekysaver]

I would love to see 3rd+ generation so4 snuck back in.

[@BrewDudes]

You know what! so would I! I'm going to plan that one out! see if that damn homebrewy flavor goes away. Cheers! -Mike

[@markwilliams5654]

S04 is hardcore yeast I love it

[@BrewDudes]

I've used it so much in the past, but I guess I've never been as analytical with it as I want. More experiments to come with it. Cheers! -Mike

[@jaymayne108]

Wyeast 1275 Thames Valley

[@BrewDudes]

Noted!

[@SteveT__001]

Very timely video for me, just about to start experimenting with these yeasts. By the way your wheel chocks should be on the downhill side of the wheels it tends to work better that way ;)

[@BrewDudes]

I will let Mike know he's doing it wrong.

[@BrettJudge]

Great vid guys ... You could give Windsor a crack

[@BrewDudes]

Thanks Brett!

[@grumpycyclist3319]

1968 Wyeast ESB yeast all the way.

[@BrewDudes]

Noted! - John

[@hivepa190]

Windsor!

[@BrewDudes]

Noted!

[@CanadianBrewingChannel]

The brewer is the cook. The yeast is the chef!

[@BrewDudes]

True!

[@rki5462]

Wow, lots of comments. When he said Diacetyl i shouted Ringwood at the screen. How wrong i was :}

[@BrewDudes]

I was equally surprised. I guess I just brewed it "right". Cheers! -Mike

[@heystage]

I LoveLoveLove Brown Ales. I have used with good results WLP-02 and Omega OYL-03. Try it out. Way to keep those jeans high and tight.

[@BrewDudes]

True that - thanks! - John

[@ChuckUnderFire]

I feel like most times I’ve made an ESB (which is a lot) it’s had that subtle home brewy characteristics of #1. And, shocker, I’ve used Fermentis more often than not. I’d love to see WLP-013 in that lineup. Definitely happy you’ll be doing the same recipe through this series. For my part, I’m looking forward to the next one!

[@BrewDudes]

Noted!

[@omarpadilla4739]

Damn thats way more cl than ive ever brewed with

[@omarpadilla4739]

A CL of 264 will contribute to that slick mouthfeel

[@mikebeswick3420]

Thames. Pronounced tems.

[@richardodriscoll5379]

I understand a twing, not a twang!

[@BrewDudes]

Ha - ya never heard of homebrew twang?

[@richardodriscoll5379]

@@BrewDudes I never heard twing before. I meant to say i like how you catagorized twing from twang. I know them both.

[@luwn00bz]

No offence but I feel like you could have some kind of a brief of the differences you guys came up with because I don't really care 16 minutes worth, sorry. Giving a like anyway!

[@BrewDudes]

Some of these videos get away from us. We normally try and keep it to 8-9 minutes. Cheers! -Mike

[@JoshuaAdkisson]

I want to subscribe... I really do... But if you saw your last 3 videos, would you? God, I know i sound like a troll, but KZbin keeps suggesting your videos, but I watch them, and I'm at a loss... I want to hate them, while also appreciating the content, but I'm just getting goofy, camper, bad-beer... Are y'all at least bjcp certified?

[@BrewDudes]

What does BJCP cert have to do with being able to taste. I've been brewing and tasting craft beer for 20+ years and I've worked pretty hard at research and honing my tasting palette. Does the credential change that? -Mike

[@BrewDudes]

Oh and BTW, the last several videos we've sort of been doing bad beer on purpose as a learning exercise and sharing the findings. -Mike

[@JoshuaAdkisson]

@@BrewDudes Mike... THERE! That is the context I was looking for... that's it... you've been doing bad beer on purpose... I can get behind that... also, pretty sure I was obliterated on my latest witbier when i wrote this comment so, honestly, sorry if I came off as a dick -Joshua