3 Months with Ableton Live 12 - Should You Upgrade?

[@matttinklermusic]

If you have any questions about Live 12, comment below and I'll do my best to answer them either here or in an upcoming video! :)

[@CinoPORakaDjCino]

First I was in doubt, but the update worth it if we want to get involved in prodution! But in some cases 11 was + simple! It takes time!

[@CharlesHardingA]

Have been using 12 for a few month and I would never go back. The upgrade is a massive leap improvement in workflow, stability, and usability. The interface and MIDI features are an enormous upgrade. I happen to really like the new browser, and find it has opened up the Ableton library like never before. After taking 10m to tag my plugins, I was able to work very quickly in this new mode. I hope it carries over to Push. But I definitely agree, I wish they would autotag user samples and other sounds.

[@agentm00se]

bro do you know how to automate parameters for plugins on a return track in please? Its driving me nuts trying to figure it out!!!

[@danzirvine]

@@agentm00se right click the parameter, select show automation.

[@itinerantghost]

I've been playing around with the Beta for a few months now and while I do feel like this should have been a free upgrade (Live 11.5 or someting?) I really can't go back. the small quality of life improvements are really speeding up my workflow so looking forward to discovering more!

[@joechapman8208]

This is a great tour of Live 12. Thanks for the honest assessment of the good and the less good!

[@Artek604]

Great video! Few thoughts :) 4:50 - if you miss MIDI control for Roar you can always use the modulators that respond to MIDI, incl. Expression Control where you can key-track MIDI and use it to modulate something. 5:43 - there's no view like that, where you can see TWO lines for devices. That is probably a mock-up someone did for feature request :) 7:20 - scale awareness is a good first steps, but we should be able to automate / sequence it and it should transpose & fit to scale the clips accordingly; like a chord track in S1 or Cubase 15:20 - 100% agree :)

[@jorgemartinez42069]

@5:43 that isn't two rows of device view, that's one row of device view and the Roar device was expanded with the little arrow that you can do on some devices like roar, wave table and EQ8.

[@Artek604]

@@jorgemartinez42069 Oh, you're right indeed :)

[@mcgritty8842]

Expecting too much from the feature of scale awareness

[@SoftClip_Q]

So I’m a Logic Pro guy. So none of the issues with key commands have been a problem as it’s all learning. Same thing with the browser and tagging system. I didn’t use it the old way but I took the time to set it up and my gosh did it take almost two days and I love the system. I wish you could scale the browser filter tag texts separate from UI scale bc imo it’s really small text compared to everything else. That’s my only gripe. I second what you’re saying completely about meld. I’ve found it’s better to instrument rack stack and octave spread a few layers with tuning the oscillators. I’m absolutely loving roar though. I own both Saturn and spectre and I love roar. Roar has the opposite problem of meld imo with easy modulation and good sources to modulate within the matrix. Would be incredible to see the scale awareness feature inside of simpler and sampler. As a Logic Pro user having a quick sampler I can just click the wave file in the sampler with a right click and click retune on pitched percussion or samples is incredible.

[@ricardojmestre]

Oh no, that browser change is a deal breaker for me. Thanks for the video! I will stay in 11.

[@samuelhof2192]

Thought the same. Why not to leave things in Folders and letthe user decide if hey wouldlile to use the filter section. Or use it with the folders.

[@samuelhof2192]

Hope this will be changed in further updates or till release. Just enough beta users need to give feedback regarding that

[@ricardojmestre]

@@samuelhof2192 Makes sense, I do hope that happens. Because what is now possible to do in terms of Midi in Live 12 looks very very interesting

[@ricardojmestre]

@@samuelhof2192 exactly! They should give the user a choice!

[@PolymerJones]

lol $200

[@jonathanbennett4535]

ARA support would be great, otherwise, it looks pretty good so far… Maybe 12.1 will be a decider for most people, like you said at the end. Thanks for your insight…great videos…

[@paulmarshmusix]

The Freeze and Flatten in one click (effectively bounce in place) is an addition I've been looking forward to. A simple quality of life improvement. Have you found it helpful?

[@matttinklermusic]

Honestly, I haven't found it that useful because I don't find myself flattening that often. I will often just freeze then drag the audio onto another track so that I can keep the original version. I really wish they had introduced a proper BIP feature in this new version.

[@paulmarshmusix]

​@@matttinklermusicI would love to see you demonstrate this to show if its more efficient in any way, and how it differs from actual BIP. I don't hear many people talking about this addition.

[@mcgritty8842]

Homie, why not just duplicate then freeze and flatten?… imo much easier than dragging and dropping

[@matttinklermusic]

The difference in time from duplicating then freeze/flatten vs. Freezing, new audio track, then clicking and dragging is pretty negligible, at least for me, but for others that would sure be a better approach. It's still not a replacement for a proper Bounce in Place, which allows you to select only a small portion of a track then do all of those steps in one simple step, rather than having to freeze the whole track, which can sometimes take a long time if the track has a lot of content.

[@dilbydj]

The browser looks terrible and gave me anxiety just watching this. I think this is enough of a sticking point for me not to upgrade just yet. It has the potential to be great but looks like they went all in on the filters section at the expense of organisation and manual browsing. A simple fix would be to have it remain as it currently is, until a filter is selected at which point it switches to the list view.

[@iplaytheorgan2]

Thank you for the tour! I am currently on Live 10; I use mostly for loops during church sets. I use Logic Pro x for creating tracks and music production. Still trying to decide if I should upgrade to Live 12. 😊

[@matttinklermusic]

You're welcome! Hopefully the video helped you to decide. :)

[@VentureNW]

We've been posting tons of threads in the suggestions and none seem to be getting addressed. I highly doubt much is going to change, unfortunately. One of the big ones is more collections - there is no reason we should be limited to 7, imo.

[@rossco78]

Agreed. What the hell is the deal with just having 7 collections folders? Such an odd thing to not address and add more etc. And not getting an answer is even more frustrating. Why not just tell it how it is. It either can or can't be done and, although I am no expert by any means, surely changing this is fairly straight forward for the coders etc.

[@InnerMotionMusic]

I've been using the beta for a little over a week and had the same complaint about the browser. I'm *_really_* hoping they add the folders in the official release. Great video - thanks for the insight!

[@LukeLine]

Great review… I’m still using Live 10 Suite but considering the update still 😅 Subbed!

[@Kevhuman]

Another thing to consider is stability. 12 seems to crash less than 11 even at this stage.

[@matttinklermusic]

Yeah I've definitely found Live 12 to be really stable! I never had stability issues with Live 11 though.

[@streck0486]

I'm a little torn. Simultaneous clip and device view is something I've wanted ever since I first opened Ableton. Mixer in arrangement view is in the same ballpark. The rest doesn't really excite me and the browser seems a little off-putting. Btw, things like Roar and Meld are only in the Suite edition, right?

[@skiphonproduction]

Great video! If you find something in this new release that reduces your production time, go for it.

[@matttinklermusic]

Absolutely!! Thanks for watching. :)

[@chrisjames3272]

I'm really surprised at Meld. From what I read about it, it seemed awesome but having no routing and just parallel seems sad. I thought the idea was to meld/combine the sounds together.

[@matttinklermusic]

100% agree. I find myself not using it because of this limitation.

[@MUNRO13]

Excellent roundup. Totally agree on all points.

[@lookmomonlycomputer]

totaly agree with your point of view... what to say about the new browser, what a missing opportunity to use nks support or other standards, tag by hands thousand of vst and samples is just the worst scenario in 2024... don't understand what they think about... same for not supporting ara, they seem to say to us,we just want to stay in our eco system. I'm really disapointed too about the real pain to use some midi transform stuff... Normaly this is suposed to make us gain some times, but in lot of cases this is the oposite, this is clearly not flawless. for example, their M4L euclidean sequencer is just unusable in this version... Clearly like 11 beta i'm not really hyped, this is a better version, but not so impressive finaly. They really need to make more minor versions with more additions, I clearly understand why somme peoples are angry about paying for this...

[@ontreitube]

Would love if they had incorporated Ai into the generative midi sequencing and most importantly the browser for auto tagging. Liveschool Grad*

[@ghostplayermusic]

11:40 This is not any different from Ableton 11, that’s just how the midi envelope device works. I agree it’s useless for polyphonic sounds, but it can be very useful for things like drum programming, working as a sidechain trigger on a kick channel for instance

[@matttinklermusic]

Yeah, I guess it's just a gripe I have because it feel like a serious limitation on how I know a lot of people would use these types of modulators.

[@mecd4167]

Ableton 12 lacks a lot in my opinion compared to live 11. They didn't put a lot of thought in the development of many of the features but they are quick to charge a shitload of money for the update.

[@infinity-1834]

Good advice. I agree.

[@cl-zachwilliamsstudios3358]

Woow, nice review! Thanks!!!

[@davide2.07]

Well done mate- that’s a proper review

[@kristianwest8561]

@martiln Hey, thanks for this. Just wanted to ask you what mic you are using? Pretty low noise factor!

[@matttinklermusic]

You're welcome, thanks for watching! It's a Rode Wireless Pro. :)

[@kristianwest8561]

@@matttinklermusic oh cool, thanks. Tidy little unit!

[@JumpingCow]

Excellent critique. Thank you.

[@sectiondrecords4580]

More midi always good.

[@damian9115]

Upgraded from Live Suite 9 (2013) to Live Standard 11/12 and notice an enormous improvement and really snappy opening and closing...though will not go to Suite !2 because the features critiqued here are mostly not in Standard...

[@damian9115]

Also having Reason and Melodyne as VST 3 inside of Live is mind blowing...

[@ozlemjane]

I m using 2019 mac pro and 11 was not really cpu friendly on my mac. Should ı upgrade ıs 12 better on this? Also my mac is not M chip so ı m not sure. Thanks

[@matttinklermusic]

I have found 13 to be far better on CPU, but not everyone has had the same experience. I recommend trying out the trial to see!

[@agentm00se]

does anyone know how to automate parameters for plugins on a return track in ableton 12 please? Its driving me nuts trying to figure it out!!!

[@matttinklermusic]

You should just need to open up the plugin, move the parameter you want to automate, switch to automation mode and unfold the return track in the arrangement view. It's worth noting that not all plugins allow you to automate every parameter, so you might not be able to automate the parameter you want to. :)

[@agentm00se]

@@matttinklermusic hi thanks for your response. i think the issue is i cant get the return tracks to show in arrangement view, only in the session view :/

[@adbproductions.1]

Very informative. Thank you

[@nukenoly8751]

As always you use the new beta and then hard to go back to the previous version regardless of how little changes you get

[@matttinklermusic]

Totally! 😅

[@Mixedbymrwood]

The new browser is annoying. They should give the option of folder view

[@baconbenjidestroyer]

As someone who got it the moment it came out, I would wait a bit longer. The price sucks, the new tag system sucks, for me it is less stable, some of the new features have been standard in other DAWs for years such as the MIDI stuff. And still new auto-tune kind of feature while FL Studio has Pitcher AND New Tone? Like come on.

[@pierrephilip1682]

i do a lot of vocal and guitar audio tracking, and it feels like they left the "tracking' workflow behind a bit. the new arrangement mixer is okay, but in tracking its not needed. now hiding/showing the return tracks are either mixer only or menu dive. hotkeys got moved around in a weird way. ehhh, idk? i thought you were very gentle in your roundup. one track done with it and i'm already wondering how to downgrade this song from 12 to 11. erhhh is how i feel. erh

[@edeltobi]

what is "right around the corner"? I should have applied for beta.... a joke

[@Nachofercri]

Hi! What’s the price of upgrading Ableton? As I’m new I’m not aware of those things, thank you very much, great video!

[@akira20ish]

Almost 200 dollars a pop FL is a one time purchase and lifetime free updates it shits on these features

[@BLACKLABEL405]

@@akira20ish ableton is way more powerful than fl so you pay for that

[@PolymerJones]

In my opinion it’s a sad state of affairs for editing software in general, minor changes are sold and touted as a big deal meanwhile all of our endless gripes remain, across the board , NLEs , DAWs

[@PolymerJones]

All this crap is in FL studio why are they charging money for this I spent like $700 on 11 a few years ago

[@playboyfan001]

Midi editing looks good, Roar looks decent,,, but everything else is looking pretty lackluster. meld looks incredibly gimmicky. The lack of organization folders and cluttered browser made me wince, granulator 3 is meh, idc, plenty of granulator options out there,,, the new detailed views are also uninteresting as someone who has spent the last 4 years getting along fine without them... overall this video is seriously making me question my pre order.

[@gancci1932]

Live 12 is so slow compared to live 11, so any of theese things justify the upgrade for me, and the new browser is terrible also. Now we have latency for opening the midi editor because of putting m4l on each midi! thank you ableton to ruin the daw

[@chrisharbin623]

I decided to pre-order, w/o saying, just saying lol.

[@Kevhuman]

Manifest audio developed an eco system of devices that add scale awareness wherever you want it.

[@matttinklermusic]

I didn't know about those devices, thanks!

[@jeedmodorn5494]

They lost their mojo. It's too much money for the upgrade and what you're getting for it. Quality of life improvements are few and far between. Others, supposedly innovative features are half baked. The only reason I did a round trip to Bitwig - a brilliant DAW - and back was my love for Push and how tightly its integrated. Don't get me wrong, it's still a great DAW. But the beta version I've been using smells musty despite its fresh coat of paint.

[@rhythmusmensch4722]

I will definitely do the update because I think the new options are very good. I also think that you have to support the company. Without money there is no progress. Greetings from Germany

[@jacquescolmenero7760]

Support? You mean like a charity? Like when you buy a car and give the salesperson a couple of hundred bucks more to "support" his/her efforts. It's a business ..if they don't give you what you want, somebody else will.

[@raphexe]

I bet all the features you can think of are already functional and ready to go, but they rather sell them little by little with each version.

[@matttinklermusic]

I wouldn't be surprised... 😅

[@b00ts4ndc4ts]

I'm blind, is there anything I could use?

[@matttinklermusic]

There are a bunch of new accessibility updates to Live 12 including full screen reader support, so hopefully Live 12 should be more accessible for people like yourself. :)

[@b00ts4ndc4ts]

@@matttinklermusic awesome, I have family and friends that help me but it would be nice just to go at a session on my own when the feeling grabs me. Thanks for your reply 👍

[@kennysmoov]

This is nicest exchange I have ever seen on KZbin! Blessings 🙌

[@marc45344]

Thanks for the vid. What headphones are those?

[@matttinklermusic]

Thanks! The headphones are Neumann NDH-20 Black Edition. :)

[@thefrxst_]

good video

[@matttinklermusic]

Thank you! :)

[@lwpweb]

it is worth the ultra fast startup time using a m2 mac. No colored balls to wait for, as it was in 11.3 . You klick it, and you are, how the americans say: good to go.

[@lwpweb]

the documention about shortcus and navigation lacks a lot...

[@EvannAudio]

I've just downloaded it, and the browser is annoying me. Such a shame.

[@carl-tctw]

Can you please test the performance of LIVE 12? For example, what is the maximum number of tracks it can handle? Thanks.

[@3danR]

Unlimited tracks

[@roskobiwan]

New deivices are cool, lack of features or not, it's just some new sounds, all good by me. Piano roll upgrades are a game changer, definitley welcome. But removing folders from the side browser is really annoying. I don't want to use the tagging feature at all, I'd rather turn that off completely... I just wanna make music not waste time tagging everything hoping that I might find it useful later...

[@auralplex]

I’m still on 10. Don’t see a reason to update yet.

[@dkkrecords]

Right off the bat and right out of the box….using beta 12….slavishness to. two key shortcuts browser…..lack of expansive key commands like in other daw’s is frustrating….solo and mute remains clunky….agree on the browser

[@chigbungus5257]

If you ask me, the upgrade is not worth the price tag. These features aren't gonna make your music better. Maybe you see some marginal improvements in workflow but its not major. If you got money to blow more power to you but id rather take that money and spend it on hardware or some new plug ins.

[@ReyohBeats]

been thinking same thing. i would like to use session and arrangement mode for easier mixing workflow but not paying all of that for that one thing lol

[@mariopandza]

Nonsense, the amount of features makes it well worth it.

[@dzaxys4643]

Yeah been using it the new stuff is ok but I wouldn't loose any sleep over it the new menus are lame 11 is still awesome

[@ClintMoody]

The keyboard shortcuts…what the actual hell? Those changes suck :/

[@StudioOOMZ]

looks like they ruined the browser

[@akira20ish]

Buy FL lifetime free updates

[@jrhager84]

Just feels like a LOT of money for a few meh features 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@mcgritty8842]

It sounds like you expect way too much from scale awareness

[@matttinklermusic]

I don't think so. If they can add scale awareness to one instrument, they should be able to add it to all of them. Maybe it's asking a bit too much for scale awareness on audio effects, but a lot of them use MIDI input already, so I can't imagine it'd be that hard to implement.

[@r3ginn]

WHERES THE FUC*&*& FOLDERS!!!!!!???????

[@LuciousKage]

Music making is dead. U can literally make anything with AI and just copy paste it into any daw for tweaks ( if u think u can do better lol)