3 Most Outdated Bike Components We Still Use On Modern Bicycles!

[@ralphcarter1]

Almost all track cyclists use square taper, including 2000W output sprinters. They are the nuts - durable, and low drag.

[@ianmangham4570]

Best by far, especially a nice SHIMANO or TANGE

[@curtisducati]

Yes and they look 100% better , no way am I removing a BB7500 Dura ace bottom bracket and Dura ace 7700 crank to fit a modern piece of rubbish new modern crank , they look awful with a huge hole in the middle ? OK for a mountain bike but not a HINDE prototype TT bike ! Square taper or Octalink only ! Pure class lol and they never play up and zero problems on mine in 20 years .....

[@tocaamerillo431]

​@@ianmangham4570 unfortunately Shimano doesn't pay much attention to square taper anymore, up until not long ago they used their special sealed cartridge bottom bracket design, like the BB-UN26 on the video. Bearing wise, they were more like the traditional cups & axle design, except integrated in a sealed cartridge. Nowadays they've moved away from this great design, and if you look at their current offerings such as BB-UN101 or UN300, it's just two cartridge bearings and a tube, like any other bottom bracket cartridge out there. In fact the bearings shimano uses appear to be much narrower than what other brands use, can't imagine that can be good with the forces they have to withstand.

[@ianmangham4570]

@@tocaamerillo431 So you're saying Fuzzy Wuzzy was a woman?

[@lototsky]

Also I dont get the weight argument. Hollowtech BB is ~200g lighter, but at the same time Square Taper / Octalink cranks are ~200g lighter.

[@fuzzi6870]

Me and millions of others had far more hassles with HT2 than with square taper. I am reading about HT2 bearings worn out very quickly almost daily.

[@tooniis1403]

You can remove the individual sprockets from a freewheel. If you did not notice the smallest sprocket is what holding the others in place. If you unscrew it then you can remove any sprocket and replace it if you find one.

[@Phantomthecat]

Square taper old? I've still got cotter pins on one of my bikes. :). 1976 BSA 10 speed - now that's old!

[@mjwil]

I didn't even know there was anything newer than square taper! Am I outdated? :P

[@TheraPi]

Must mention the axle issues with freewheel hubs. The drive side bearings are way to far from the axle end, often causing bent axles

[@cozmo4694]

i had 2 bikes with a freewheel, on the 2.2" mtb the axle was a little bent after a while but rideable, on a 4" fatbike the bearings are so far that the axle bent so much it was barely rideable lol

[@SizeableThoughts]

I persevered with a 7s freewheel for many years. 7s is the limit for safe axles and i still had a few axle failures. Took a wheelbuild project to bring my bike into the 21st century.

[@jon65160]

i'm afraid the most outdated component on my bike is; ME.

[@keithmills778]

I have the same problem! And my bike is really outdated--bought it new in 1985 and my first real ride on it was out of Heathrow airport at the start of four months of cycling around Europe. Still riding it today, with a freewheel and square tapered bottom bracket.

[@charlesivey9987]

I know the most outdated component on my bike is ME! I also know, in the beginning, some Freewheels could be completely dis-assembled with a couple of cog wrenches. You could actually select the number of teeth you wanted on each cog (sprocket) of the set of five. I believe the most outdated set of cogs on bicycles is a 10,12, 15, 18, 21, or 24 speed cluster that ends with a 14 tooth High Gear Cog or Sprocket. Cycling is based on the old Weight to Power ratio. The lighter the better! 11, 12, or 13 tooth cogs are lighter in weight than 14 or 15 tooth cogs. If the size and weight can be reduced at the rear wheel it can also be reduced at the Chain Ring. Better ground clearance would be a big advantage for off-road cycles (BMX and Mountain Bikes). One thing BMX did for Cycling is to bring longer crank arms into the picture. 180 cm crank arms instead of 160, 165, or 170s. That, of course, puts more stress on the bottom bracket. That stress is concentrated right where the aluminum crank arms meet the square tapered steel shaft. Most of the bearings used in sealed bottom brackets are off the shelf items from electric motor industrial applications. They do have an angular contact specification and a much better riveted ball retainer built right into them. They are made to run at revolutions no man will ever achieve at the cranks (1700 RPM or better). The same rules apply to the bearings used in sealed bearing hubs for bicycles. In the early days of BMX SR made a tubular one piece chrome-molly crank. Hollow from pedal threads to pedal threads. It was made for the American Bottom Bracket. I had a Schwinn Continental with an SR Tubular installed. It made it a little lighter. I rode it in the 85 Lake Hefner Streak. That was the indestructible crank. I had a Bike with a Shimano 8-Spline BB shaft. Stripped in no time! No Thanks! Hollow BB shafts are available for square tapered types. I think it's funny that for the first 15 years of Mountain Bike production there was not a Kevlar belted tire, in sight, anywhere. There were Kevlar belted IRCs for Road Bikes and Touring models the whole 15 years and still today! You have no ride without Kevlar! 72 in June!

[@flinch622]

Me too!

[@Delinquent-Minds]

Lool. Yup in my forties now and decided to take up cycling. If I could just replace me then job done! 😂😂😂

[@soulman1419]

Know the feeling people,I think my knees will go before the square taperd pedals 🤣🤣🤣

[@p5y4n1d3]

None of the reasons mentioned for Cassette vs. Freewheel are remotely sensible. The primary reason for a cassette is it allows the bearings in the rear hub to be roughly equally spaced, reducing hub wear and torsional load.

[@davidc7644]

Thank you! Freewheel hubs often suffer from bent axles due to this. The person who did this video is clearly not that knowledgeable able bike mechanics.

[@ericherrera5405]

you got it ... the main improvement with cassette systems is position of the bearings.

[@markconnelly1806]

True, I have broken many rear axles on old freewheel hubs.

[@yanduval7172]

Yes, I suffered broken axles many times before switching to cassettes! That's the main reason for the change.

[@jasonjayalap]

Ah. I was going to say "but a whole freewheel is cheaper than replacing a single cog, if people even do that."

[@johnsmythe9449]

I am always amazed with the snooty attitude many bicyclists have towards their gear. I am not of that type. I ride all 4 seasons in Michigan commuting just about everyday. My commute is only 3 miles but that is OK cuz im almost 60 yo. Couldnt care less whether my 2 Giant bikes (Boulder ladies frame for winter and Cypress DX mens frame for the rest) has an 'outdated' freewheel or not. My bikes are always bought used and usually for under $200. Couldnt care less about the weight either. By the time they are all loaded and rolling we are at around 250lbs most days. Ride because you enjoy it. I still do, even though some dumb b*tch did a felony hit-and-run against me 2 weeks ago.

[@boracay12]

Ist the old threadedfreewheel is not heavier . It has the hub included yes . And the newer freehub has the free hub built into the hub . They both have bearings and one way cogs that wear out. You can and I did remove the gears on my threaded freewheel ..... And you can get 8 gears . As far as I know . I got a 8 gear set for $8 usa .the gears and hub included. But it's out of date so their is not a lot of options . You can not get single gears . But at 8 bucks for a whole set . Not a big deal . It's also not hard to take off if you use the "chain whip" tool .. if I where bored and wanted to spend money I might change the newer freehub . Cause there is more gearing options . I would need to buy the hub . Remove all the spokes and reassemble then buy the cassette with gears I wanted . .I won't be doing that any time soon .

[@gang208]

Exactly! All my bikes have square tapered bottom bracket. One touring bike I have had since 1985 still has the original BB with separate bearings, cups and spindle. It's very tough if you maintain it once every few years. I don't race so the stiffness or a few grams of weight mean nothing to me. The newer inventions came and went quickly. The Octalink BB was called revolutionary, then was obsolete in about 5 years.

[@DavidCulshawmer-r]

i'm still using a square taper BB on my mtb , built the bike 17 years ago and only changed the BB once , square taper BB's are bomb proof so thats why folk still use them :) , i have that crank on my bike too haha , its heavier than my old alloy shimano crank but like the BB its very hard wearing and will last years of abuse , i think your talking from a racers perspective and not the every day riders perspective , old is not always bad you know :)

[@laszlozoltan5021]

I dont believe you- not one bit.

[@DavidCulshawmer-r]

you don't believe what ? , everything I have said is a fact , what is your experience of square taper BB's ? , I have hollowtech 2 on my racing bike and I love it too but I don't believe its going to be as durable as the square taper ( although its dead easy to remove and clean )

[@garypedro8006]

I have wore out too many square taper cranks to count. the alloy arms get rounded out and become lose. hollow tech 2 is the only way to go. the bearings themselves don't last any longer just the interface to the arms.

[@laszlozoltan5021]

BBs are not hard wearing at all- not if you are riding outdoors. even in perfect weather, your bb will get contaminated and you will have to repack, but before you do your bearings will get pitted. 17 years is not proof you speak with any authority- in 17 years you should have have plenty of learning experience gained from necessary work on your own bike, including mistakes, but you speak as though everything was perfect from day one as proof your square BB is better. Square BBs have been snapped clean in final sprints. Everyone not living in florida or saskatchewan who rode "back then" will remember the large chainring rubbing on a good climb if you forgot or failed to downshift in time. Or a bit of play caused by loosening of the cups, breaking-down/wash out of grease, or perhaps an italian thread, binding caused by over-tightening etc. But nope, you dont. Your own words undermine your credibility - sorry to be blunt, but I would rather be rude than let some novice reading your post be misguided by what I know is your assumption your little experience is of such an authoritative value on the subject.

[@DavidCulshawmer-r]

Laszlo Zoltan have you ever used a square taper bb ? , they are a sealed unit , the only thing that went on mine was the rubber seals , all i hear from you are assumtions and anecdotes from things you've heard or remember , i live in the north of the UK and ride throughout the year in snow and ice to nice sunny weather , i speak from experience and that of my mates who haven't had to change their bb yet , i asked you for your experience and you haven't got any , I'd hate it if anyone read your post and made a bad decision based on your assumptions and not experience

[@medawc519]

I totally disagree with square tapered bottom bracket. For racing - sure, the 2-piece cranksets lower weight and A BIT better stiffness (not a huge difference actually!) will benefit. But for touring and commuting, where longevity is the thing, the square tapered bottom bracket beats the shit out of external bearings in 2-piece cranksets. Especially while frequently used in bad weather conditions. My personal experience on my touring bike - after riding down 3 sets of bearings for 2 piece cranksets, each one lasting approximately 1500km i sold the crankset and switched to square tapered one. After 8000km it's still in pristine condition. You did not mention the crappiest relic that is still commonly used in some tourers and commuters, especially dutch bikes - the threaded headset!

[@joebob3719]

Yeah, I dunno what Medawk is talking about, I have 3 years and about 9,000 miles on my FSA mego exo BB and crank (you know, something snobs would turn their noses up at anyway) and the damned thing spins like the day I bought it. Maybe I'm just lucky, maybe Medawk is just unlucky, but I smell some bullshit.

[@joebob3719]

I was agreeing with you, fam. My point was that seemingly nobody likes the MegaExo (a 2 piece crankset) to begin with (they usually replace it with Shimano or Sram as soon as they can) and yet still the damned thing lasted 9k miles! (PS the mega exo sealed bb is about the same price as the origin 8 torg sealed bb,, so I dunno what you're talking about)

[@joebob3719]

That said, extreme Touring requires a rider to be able to fix things on the road, where ever and whenever in order to survive the trip. This means, unlike road cycling where you come home every trip, touring exists in a world of pragmatic ludditism, in that it's not so much the risk of failure, because after 1000 miles in a few weeks a failure becomes inevitable, but the risk of your broken bike being unfixable. It is likely that when things go wrong, it'll be far from a minor city and farther still from an LBS which has the newest parts in stock. Which means that while a 2 piece crank might be superior technologically in every way; that fact is little comfort if those parts fail (for whatever reason), you can't fix them, and then you're stuck walking 200 miles in the middle of sister-fuck nowhere. At least thanks to square taper's extreme cheap ubiquity and age you can sleep easy knowing that almost any town with even a cheap Kmart bicycle shaped object will probably have the parts and the tools to fix a broken square crankset and BB. Failing that the tools used to service square tapers can be easily approximated and parts could be kludged together in a friendly machine shop or tractor supply, hell it beats walking.

[@joebob3719]

Actually all you really need is a hammer, the hex key from your multi-tool, a block of wood, and some motivation to pull a crank off a square taper BB fam. Second of all not every town has a bike shop, and not every store who sells bikes is a bike shop. Are you sure that you can find an external BB wrench deep within pennsyltucky, the South American jungles, the desert, or central Africa? And forget about adjustments, how certain are you that you can find the newest replacement parts within the distant forgotten regions of the world? Bikes are everywhere, but external BB are not, because they aren't cheap. QED, square BB have THREE advantages, they're cheap, they're easy to source because they're everywhere, and, in a pinch, they don't require special tools.

[@randomistmech]

GXP is famous for failing almost immediately around here. Hollowtech less so, but I tend to leave both in the box and grab a Chris King or a Hope. Ceramic ball bearings in a bb are pretty much snake oil, there's very little benfit, and if your greased stainless bearings rust, you're doing something very wrong.

[@karlfonner7589]

I work on outdated freewheels make sure to grease the threads before you put them on

[@ethanwells5779]

Yes. Please grease the threads. I have spent hours trying to remove freewheels that are stuck. USE GREASE

[@BradMaestas]

There's a reason some things are still around. It's because they were well designed to begin with. It's all well and good to go down the path of having the latest and greatest but for those of us who enjoy lugged frames and the classic (ever-serviceable) tech and who like to remember where things came from, the older stuff will still have appeal to riders and collectors alike. My daily rider is a 1985 Fuji Professional with a Suntour Superbe Pro groupset (friction shifting) and my newer ride is a Scott CR1 SL with SRAM Red 11. From a performance standpoint the Scott certainly leaves nothing to be desired and it's what I use for my long distance and high elevation gain rides but there's an undeniable silkiness with which the Fuji goes about its business, not to mention the more forgiving nature of its lugged steel frame, that makes it just so much fun to ride. I also don't feel weird about locking it up when I'm running errands. It also helps that it was the exact model I wanted when I was a kid but could never dream of affording. Surely, technological progress is important and will continue to make our lives "easier" but I'm one of those people that likes to look forward while also looking back, not forgetting where we came from and not losing my connection to the old ways.

[@tumbleweedking5668]

I routinely average 18 mph on my old 87 schwinn 6 sp down tube shifters 14 x 28 freewheel. Good wheels are everything not the components if working properly.

[@sueneilson896]

Yep. I still have 3 old suntour superbe pro equipped bikes. Easily the most durable components ever made. All sealed bearings and pivots. Have a suntour XC pro mtb and that is even better, with grease points on every bearing. Will still be going when our sun goes supernova!

[@DilbertMuc]

The biggest difference between Square-tapered bearings and Hollowtech is. Lifetime of square-tapered is around 15-20 years and Hollowtech some 3-5 years.

[@TheSouthernCrow]

Square Taper is great for touring. It's hard wearing and easier to get spares in most countries.

[@peteranas]

perfectly said

[@dgillies5420]

You missed the main advantage of the cassette which is that it allows us to put the bearings of the cassette out near the hub axle-nuts or QR nuts, so the axle is supported at the ends and is under much less stress and breaks/bends far less often. That's essential for 135mm MTB hubs and good for 130mm hubs. When were multi-cog freewheels invented? Maybe 1930's? 1940's?

[@TSKseattle]

If your square taper cranks are moving around, it's because someone tried to install them by just tightening the nuts/bolts on the arms. A square taper joint MUST be hammered on, and no I don't mean taking a claw hammer and beating your arms to a pulp. A deadblow hammer with repeated blow/tighten, blow/tighten, will set the wedge in the taper without damaging anything in the BB. I've been working on bikes for 45 years, LONG before all this high tech we have today, and this is how it's always been done

[@bellavia5]

I like a hammer tap myself. I mean -you don't want to whack the crank arm. You can damage the bottom bracket and or the BB bearing cups.

[@kayg2125]

I like the part about spreading the bearings out. This is another reason why freewheels are not good. They force the axle bearings inward on drive side, which leads to a lot more broken axles. With bearings closer in, they give the axle a longer lever arm. This produces a larger moment about drive side bearings than would occur with most cassette hubs of the 10mm axle type.

[@Hardi26]

The square tapered crankset is still better, than those that were attacked with a cotter. ^_^

[@littlegoobie]

i stripped out those pins in a single ride. that design was near useless. I think that's why square taper lasted so long, it was simple and so durable than the cottered crank. In addition to that, it was just about universally compatible not including the whole stupid "diamond" vs "square" thing and campy gear.

[@kofalin]

I remember those, you had to hammer them in and then tight the nut to the almost stripping point jut to get them to work :(

[@khaomaneecats9533]

yah. i have 1x 58t chainring litepro square taper to my mtb and 11t-32t 7speed thread cogs DNP brand... long ride.... believed me hallowtech cannot do my setup

[@wayneproud2822]

cartridge bearings are easier and simpler for manufaturers, campy and shimano still use cup and cone on their high end wheel hubs.

[@copypaiste]

Yes, but they are not as easily serviceable as open bearings and often they come press-fitted into parts (wheel hub) and require special tool to make a replacement. Although places like headset obviously better with sealed ones.

[@madeinuk68]

Square tapered bottom brackets are great as long as you make sure that the bolts holding your cranks on them are kept tight.As any movement would warp the soft alloy of your cranks,rendering them useless.Ideally you should use thread lock on the bolts. But grease the pin to stop creaking sounds. I used them for years with very few problems. They are also more durable in my experience than the splined or octolink ones. One problem I did find with the square ones,was that they could end up welding themselves to the crank,if not serviced pretty regularly. I certainly don't think they should be made obsolete. I remember the old serviceable cotter-less bottom brackets well also,as long as you installed them properly they were great,and with good regular servicing they lasted years,they also had the square taper.

[@yonseimatt]

Octalink vs square taper- stiffer, but smaller bearings wear out quicker. That said, I use an old Deore octalink on my single speed mountain bike because for high- torque low rpm as you said the hollowtech 2 pich bolt system couldn't handle the lateral forces and the LH crank would invariably fail. SRAM GXP doesn't have this problem however and I generally use this on my road bikes. External bearings wear out quicker than internal ones due to road/ off-road grit exposure. I don't really notice much flex on the inexpensive but decent Sugino 110BCD square taper crank on one of my road bikes. Cartridge bearings- tough enough, never noticed an issue with lateral loads in wheels, but this could contribute to rapid wear in cranks. Cheap and easy to set up. Freewheels- biggest issue is that the rear wheel isn't supported at either end, stressing the axle. They are however MUCH cheaper than cassettes and freehubs. Never had an issue with removal and I'm a strong 90KG who rides quite aggressively- you just need a long lever.

[@Torchedini]

Matt Wallwork if you go from 7 speed freewheel to 7 spd cassette cassette wil be cheaper. Also easier to service.

[@bryanburnside9783]

Bottom brackets have become a serious pain in the last few years. And failure can lead to an unusable frame. The external bearings are lighter and stiffer in all applications. 45 years of wrenching has shown me that most riders do not maintain their bikes to the level they should. I would much rather deal with the old adjustable cone and bearings than the BS and problems I have found with the newer pressed bearings and the carnage that some people impose on their bikes. Square taper is fine in many stetting's, like road, city and touring were forces are linier and steady. But, they are not as stiff where serious torque application is necessary. And, if you fail to keep specified torque on the left bolt there is a risk of the arm getting wallowed out. If that happens it's toast. If BB threads become rusted, corroded or packed with grit, especially around beaches and coastal areas, they are a bear to remove or impossible. A hundred times I've found them cross threaded. With press fit I have seen damage to the frame from badly installed or removed bearings.

[@yonseimatt]

Hi Torchedini, you're probably right in some countries, but a 7sp cassette is hard to find nowadays. I've had Shimano freehubs fail and had to replace them along with the cassette, which is quite expensive, but never (as far as I recall) had a freewheel fail, they'll wear out before then and are quite cheap. Biggest problem is the lack of support for the axle at the right-hand end with a screw-on hub, I have seen plenty of solid axles bend with a heavy rider and have broken a couple of QR axles myself, back in the day. Freehubs are better in every way bar price IMHO.

[@yonseimatt]

Bryan, agreed. I've lost a few decent cromoly frames to seized in bottom brackets. Most folks don't maintain their bikes anywhere near as well as they should.

[@Y1AN1]

these things come down to cost. Square taper cranks are cheap... hollowtech, GXP cost more The biggest problem with the freewheel btw is bearing positioning along your rear axle. I have snapped 3 rear axles (QR) the last year due to the drive side bearings being so central to the hub. Also I use square taper, octalink and hollow tech II bottom brackets on my fleet (depending which bike). Nothing wrong with any of these systems but they all do something different. My favourite for ease and longevity is the hollowtech II which is on both my hardtail and full sus MTB. Square taper would literally fall apart if i tried using it for riding trails. I ride road every day on the square taper, doing about 1500-2000 miles a year in all weathers and I'm sorry, but I can't believe anyone who says they've been riding the same square taper BB almost 10 years without the bearings giving up on them. Mine go about every 6-12m. The only way they are lasting nearly a decade, is if you barely ride.

[@ShermanSitter]

I like both options for different reasons. i love my classic bicycles with cup and cone, however, the cartridge bearings are super easy to quickly service. i did notice that both of my experiences with cartridge came not adequately greased from the bicycle shop / factory. i had to service them very soon after purchased, but since have been great. i do like the simplicity of the press fit cranks, but have had little problems with my classic square taper too. also, i suspect the old stuff will outlast everything as i have seen in the comments too. in the end, i like having the options for different purposes. more importantly, bicycles are awesome. :)

[@karlfonner7589]

DFTA (Don't Feed The Animals) you're right they do needto be greased when they come out of the factory Threads also!

[@ShermanSitter]

yes, threads...the forgotten area in the world of greasing parts. fear not, i treat my bicycles well in this regard! :) i'm guessing you have some classic bicycles and solid training as well?

[@davidoates9810]

I have two square taper BB bikes, one octalink, one Hollowtech and a BB30 cartridge bike. The square tapers are fine, a little heavy. The octalink is an obvious improvement at the crank/axle interface. The Hollowtech is perfect. The BB30 constantly creaks and cracks.

[@joef8487]

If it ain't broken, don't fix it. My 2 cent.

[@Herbybandit]

Yeah, the old freewheel is getting old hat now along with cup n cone bottom brackets but everything here is all still totally usable on our good old everyday rides as long as you look after them and keep up with maintainance! Essentially not everyone is bothered about saving a few ounces/grammes unless they're serious racers when weight limits come into play.

[@MishaDaBear]

I bet that slick biker would hate my friction gearing on my touring bike. I have friction because it is no maintenance on the road touring, if a cable breaks I change it out and tuning is not required!

[@davidcosine]

Misha LeBlanc friction for the win... the hilarity of these bike videos is the application of this technology for touring versus say mountain bike trail racing versus say road bike racing is so totally different. for touring you need stuff that you can fix when you break down in China. When you have unlimited budget and you're racing money is no Object and seconds counts

[@RixterNow]

I just got rid of my Octalink BB and cranks just this past weekend and replaced with the Deore. The Octalink shells needed a impact gun to remove

[@harv855]

I am surprised that you didn't attack solid wheel hub axles as being outdated. Personally, I swap out QD hollow axles for solid ones which you can still buy new. QDs are fine for racing, but if you are going to lock up your bike to a sidewalk rack, or tow a trailer, solid is the way to go. I just carry a 14-15mm wrench which also fits pedals and crank bolts. Consider this a pre-emptive strike for keeping those 'outdated' solid axles that also resist bending and breaking. I am also a big fan of 5-speed freewheels, cup and cones, square taper, quill stems, etc. Call me a retro-grouch.

[@vinyltheif]

I disagree with the square tapper bottom bracket being 'out dated'. My touring bike has this with (over three tours now) completed done 94,000 km without a problem (using two Shimano bottom brackets). If I was racing / gram-pinching then yes a lighter method would prove beneficial, it's all a matter of application.

[@oreocarlton3343]

Cartridge/cup cone - less mainintence and more durable, slightly more friction than high end cup cone but whatever. Depends what you are after, my vote is cartridge all the way since I need less things to think about. Cassette>freewheel cassette - this one is eaey Hollowtech cranks - not so fast, yes it has the performance and lightweight but bearings are extremly sensitive to water and some ht2 systems on mtbs are prone to loosing the tightness of non drive side crank. Generally not as durable as newer type octalink (DH bikes almost never use ht2 cranks). Depends on the user....

[@alandougan3600]

I don't see whats wrong with a freewheel, yea they are harder to get off but I just replaced my freewheel and chain for £21 shimano and KMC parts. How many cassettes can you get for that?

[@rak2liga]

Can you replace gearing from 12-25 to 11-32 in 5 minutes? Only issue is maintenance of freehub. But you can replace it without cogs.

[@silaseul3186]

but one point why freewheels are bad imo, he didnt mention at all, they wobble like hell and that is not really good :"D

[@TheJavonplayer]

They are not compatible with hardly anything like he said. If you wanted to upgrade hardly anything like wheels or a crank, it will drive you crazy. Plus they are heavy and you can't get a 12t or 11 t sprocket 14T is smallest you can get.

[@bryanburnside9783]

The biggest problem with the is the bearing placement on the axel. Because the drive side bearing is about an inch further inboard than the bearing in the freehub heavy vertical forces like those in routine mountain bike use causes the axel to bend. Then that happens it puts causes contact, friction and wear in the bearings. As well as increasing the already bad wobble of the sprockets and chain line. It leads to eventual failure of the freewheel. The HG system that has become the basic standard was designed specifically to address this problem for mountain bikes and has been carried over to basically all bike disciplines.

[@alandougan3600]

Are they any heavier than a cassette and freehub?

[@FinflazodeTurroai]

In actual use, threaded freewheels work fine. They can be made at least as light as cassette systems. Properly fitted square tapered hubs do not fail, while outside cartridge bearings will. Cartridges are very expensive, and not only that, they sometimes get stuck and you damage the frame while trying to disassemble them. I suspect there's a lot of "fashion" on cycling. What I say is, do not change what is working well enough. Modify what fails.

[@Sentient6ix]

I prefer cup and cone bearings. I put custom cup and cone bearings on my midschool Haro Mirra BMX, and it felt a lot better than the typical BB bearings

[@evelasq1]

My square taper bottom bracket took a lot of abuse from the city streets and it still has no negative 👎 issues.

[@flamespearmusic9358]

Free wheels are replaceable without scrapping the wheel

[@mauriciom8430]

Oh no this is what my $600 Giant Defy 5 has and you are right. Right after watching the video I went to see my bike and everything you showed as outdated my bike has. Thanks so much for this video. Now I know what to upgrade on my bike.

[@marksmithWLC]

If you turn off the volume on this video and simply watch, it looks like a 1970s/1980s "Fingerbobs" episode #beingold

[@____________________________.x]

Thanks for that, I was a bit out of touch with what is considered "outdated", my last bike was 30 years ago and used cotter pins

[@MichielvanderMeulen]

The spindle is deliberately fixed to the crank arm on the side of the gears. In that way the junction between the arm and the shaft is only loaded in one direction when pedaling.

[@pauljs75]

Not every bike is for racing. When they start making components for the largest segment of bicycle production (under $300), only then will you start seeing the "outdated" stuff going away. The stuff just isn't cheap enough to set the bar for the lowest common denominator.

[@grahamaustin9085]

To be fair he's not really talking about commuter bikes and touring. I do hate freewheels though.

[@eLJaybud]

I have a two piece crank that uses the octalink connection on one side, the only special tool I seem to need is a really big crank Allen key, it works well because you can get the tension up on the crank shaft much easier.

[@theSEGAtwistisover9k]

1:41 this video is starting to remind me of my Doctors appointment.

[@rondg2]

square taper still OK. stiffness isn't an issue for most people. and there are lightweight square taper BB like FSA's titanium carbon-fiber. you forgot to mention the durability of square-taper compared to octalink

[@xophere]

How much money does Shimano give you for this? Or are you just hoping for free stuff?

[@TheLoydal]

I agree to a certain degree. I have been a bike mechanic for many years, and I see problems with all of the parts you have pointed out. There are more problems with the cartridge bearings in the cranks than the older outboard bearings they used before. Thanks for the video.

[@DFX2KX]

from what my bike shop guy said on it (as I went in there the first time with a Walmart bike and I KNOW the bearings are a low-point with them) is that the bad rap they get is half down to the basement-low price they're made at. they'll always be a bit worse then those cone bearings, but a decent set is at least servicable.

[@dapster]

IMHO square taper will NEVER BE OUTDATED! Why? Because for one they are stronger than any other type of crankset I've ever used - and I beat the crap out of my bikes, having been a messenger. Plus most square taper cranksets use SEALED BOTTOM BRACKETS where your supposed 2 piece (really a 3 piece as you have to include the bottom bracket along with the two other pieces) use an external bottom bracket which is NOT SEALED, therefore letting things like water and dirt get inside, making the life of the BB less than that of a sealed one. (currently on year #9 with the same exact square tapered crankset and bb and it still works the same as the day I bought it.) So no, I don't think square taper is outdated. Sorry.

[@bee_whisper]

if jason kenny and the gb squad used square taper on the track bike it cant be that bad

[@jamesheath4845]

I like square taper, but not sealed cartridge square taper. I find the seals more than adequate on the modern external threaded cups, and I love the easy maintenance of old cup-and-cone systems, but I can't stand the disposable cartridges - they're heavy, expensive and unreliable, and you can't fix them when they start to wear. I have two shimano 105 chainsets - a 1056 with cartridge BB, and a 5800 with ultegra external bb. I love the look of the old one, but it is noticeably less stiff, and though it is extremely light without a bb, the weight of the cartridge is significant.

[@Skooteh]

Square taper bbs and cranksets are absolutely weaker than 2 piece cranksets. The advantages of square taper begin and end with cost.

[@dapster]

Skooteh Oh yeah, tell that to my Sugino Square Taper cranks that I've had since 2008, along with my Shimano sealed bottom bracket. (I ride that bike every day 50-60 miles per.) Still works just as good as the day I first got them while everyone that I know who uses those 3 PIECE CRANKSETS (2 pieces + bottom bracket = ?? 3 pieces. They don't ride on themselves. They need a bottom bracket as well) consistently complain about how their bottom brackets break within 6-9 months because of rain, sleet and snow. So in no way are they superior to ST. Next!!

[@dapster]

And some ST setups cost MORE THAN THOSE OTHER CRANKSETS. Sugino 75's are $275 for just the arms. Then add another $200 for their chainrings and bottom brackets and it's $475. So save me the bullshit about cost.

[@michaezell4607]

Some people use the freewheel simply so they can coast. Bike styles change constantly for example nobody seems to be using bar extensions anymore.

[@h82fail]

I like Cartridge bearing but your right about the bearings used in bikes only being designed for radial load. However cartridge bearings don't have to be that way. Look at wheel bearings in a car, they are sealed cartridge bearings but support dynamic and axial loads fine because they use rollers on a taper instead of balls. Hubs and bottom brackets could be designed with bearings like that it would just cost more or might not be off the shelf bearings.

[@fatwheezer4894]

When you "upgrade" these parts and they feel stiffer, smoother, more efficient it's just your subconscious tricking you so you don't feel bad about spunking your hard earned on something you already had!

[@CanIHasThisName]

And the Earth is flat and the Sun orbits around it because science is nothing compared to your perception of the world.

[@enriqueruiz1263]

Very true

[@pradeepnayak3368]

Why you even watching this video if you don't want to upgrade

[@WildBikerBill]

@@pradeepnayak3368Because I want to see how afflicted people are by GAS: Gear Acquisition Syndrome - The need to have the latest and 'greatest', even when what they have works just fine.

[@gregalbrecht9613]

Still riding Regina America 6-Speeds on three out of four (Schwinn LeTour, Stumpjumper and Masi 3V) bikes. Glad I bought a Regina cog board and a bunch of Sedis Sport chains years ago. But gotta admit, the Seven Ti/Carbon with Dura Ace 7800 is a lot more fun.

[@enricodeharder4984]

I have heard so much nonsense in this video. Square tapered bottom brackets are strong and stiff. There heavy, but use larger ball bearings thus more durable. If you get chainrub on your front mech i think your frame is flexing. Maybe a stiffer frame or just use proper gearing? Most of the Olympic Track cyclists use Square tapered bottom brackets, and those guy's can push big gears. Don't believe everything the manufacturers tell you. They once said that bb30 was the best option for bracket mounting. But after a decade i know my next bike will have BSA threading for my MTB and Road bike.

[@vidjagameenjoyer]

From personal experience, I can make my chainrings flex if I really push in the hardest gear on a 52 front, 11 rear setup. Even with a brand new BB there is enough flex to make the chain rub the front mec. I can't make this happen with a hollowtech crankset/BB. It is stiffer for sure.

[@enricodeharder4984]

William Hitchens in my opinion it's not the axle on itsself that's flexing. Depending on the frame you can also get chainrub on a modern hollow type bracket.

[@vidjagameenjoyer]

Well this is on the same frame. A chromo steel cx bike.

[@duvobikes3953]

square is flexing - bearings are supported in board, unlike ' modern' bearings which are supported at a greater distance.

[@winyettyu]

I have both systems. I use a square on my city bikes and it is fine, especally on my single speed.But I love my HT2 system on my MTB, when I first swapped from ISIS drive I was amazed how stiff it is.

[@suggesttwo]

Hubs and gears don't wear out it is the chain and spokes that break. Square 👌 works good. Octalinck 👌. The frame will flex long before the bb.

[@artmallory970]

I suspect the reason they put old skool 68mm square tapered bottom brackets, etc on 'low-end' bikes is to keep the cost of manufacturing down. ps. having a bit of weight in the BB helps keep the centre of gravity down low, where it needs to be. 'brickin it' guvna

[@Pitocau]

fantastic video! I would just mention another of the main disadvantages of the freewheel: the bearings are less wide in distance -->less torsional stability of the wheel

[@phoenixjayloni3341]

I dunno why you hating on these parts. They make more people get on the bike. And these parts do not define the bike. It's always the rider.

[@grahamaustin9085]

Fine if that's the bike you have but I wouldn't buy a new bike with a freewheel

[@IQstrategy]

Agree on the freewheel, but not quite sure about BB. The freewheel just limits choices on cogs. 14 is widely available but it sucks. And if u ever had to remove the darn thing after years of use, u know why. A square taper may be heavier but really bomb proof like others mentioned. I have not found the flex much of an issue. Maintain bike well (esp do the small thing urself), that's always the better ticket than expensive or modern stuff. My son recently beat out his muscular scout leader on his $3k monster machine. He only had a 3x7 speed + square taper + rim braked 90's Montague Folding, he pulled out of his mom's sedan trunk. $3k monster's chain had no lube, the gears crunched, the chain slipped, & the wheels wobbled. After that event, he never complains about the equipment or attempts to buy new fancier. He just asks for adjustments (love).

[@saadsalique6760]

1:41

[@Shady-Shane]

hope he bought it dinner

[@UltaPowderfinger]

I agree, especially with the freewheel but you did error on you comments on the freewheel. You can replace individual sprockets on the freewheel. Using a chain tool, you can remove the outer most sprocket and then slide the entire stack off. It is then easy to replace any individual sprocket. You can also take the freewheel mechanism apart. Do not grease that though or the pawls will skip. I only use oil inside the freewheel. Also, be aware that there are a zillion tiny ball bearings in there. If you take it apart, you need to be ready for that. Hopefully nobody will be doing that anytime soon. The free hub is much lighter and better for all the reasons you mention. Peace! Out!

[@DualDesertEagle]

I've put a BMX-style bottom bracket and crank on my 26" dirt jumper. It's basically a mix of that octalink system and the non-drive side clamp of that crank set u showed. The teeth on the axle are much longer and taller tho, and it's a CroMo axle so I'm sure it's gonna last longer than I live. And the bearings in the BB cups are accessible from the outside so they should be very easy to replace. I'd prefer that same crank system on my other bike which has an octalink BB and crank set and a 1x9 shifting group on it but I'd need a 32T chain ring in the front to be able to reach proper speeds and I'm not sure 32T chain rings exist for the BMX-style cranks.

[@hectorbonfires1193]

gay - real men drive bikes with cotter pin cranks

[@wseto09]

Not all manufactures are going back to threaded bottom brackets. Few expensive carbon road bikes have creaking problem noise due to press in fit bottom brackets. Not everyone who only casually rides a bike will know a difference between a stiff crank arm and bottom bracket. This guy comes in from a more modern bike time and seems like hasn't gone through the old school bikes or researched it enough. Better information is sheldon brown's bicycle sight.

[@hebijirik]

I think the biggest drawback of the freewheel is that from your right dropout the nearest bearing in the hub is almost in the middle of the axle. I used to break axles because of this some 20 years ago and I weigh 64kg. Square taper BBs have rather solid bearings with good size balls in them which can make them last forever. Octalink and any other stuff that oversize the spindle by making the bearings thinner loose this and are more likely to fail. The BB shown last with larger bearings outside of the frame fixes this problem while allowing for the stiffer and lighter properties of larger hollow spindle. However to get the same lifetime as the closed system of square taper BBs you would need to have everything made to crazy precise tolerances and make sure it is extra clean during assembly. Also square taper BB allows you to tweak your chainline and Q factor in a way nothing with spindle fixed to one crank ever will so I think it will continue to have its applications. The cartridge bearings look to me like one of those things cycling industry is pushing to customers to decrease the lifetime of components and make us buy new stuff more often.

[@grandaddywex]

i dont feel that friction you talk about in the end because the shell of the bb flexes in the plastic to carbon bottom bracket shell. now that you say it though, i bet the aluminum shelled version out there might feel the lateral and what not

[@84953]

I'm not a super bike enthusiast, but there are a couple of things that I see which I raise question to. The first thing is what materials are we talking about here? I can't see how there is much difference in weight between a freewheel hub and a cassette of sprockets if you include that hub with it. That's assuming that all of these parts are being made with the same metal or alloy. At 3:45. is that plastic inside the crank arm? (Those yellow things.) I can see a problem right there. So far as the BB's go, I don't know if the octolink crank is better than the square taper, but again I raise the question of materials. If there is a positive contact on the octolink I can see to a certain point where it might have an advantage. However, the beauty of the square taper is that it can be tightened as needed and stabilize the crank arms and sprocket rings from wobbling. So far as the sealed bearings, the only benefit to them is less maintenance in terms of lubrication, and besides keeping dust and dirt out of the bearing, it keeps the grease in longer. There's a good reason for the cone and race bearings in bicycles. They are both axial and radial bearings. Yes, this is probably most important in the head tube, and the wheels as they tend to take quite a bit of lateral force as well as radial force. So far as what this guy is talking about, these points (especially weight issues) are certainly not relevant unless you are talking about racing.

[@gabesuars7390]

what do you recommend as better, what would you say is the best? What is good for long term use, ease or maintenance, and best performance?

[@Hardi26]

I believe, that motorcycles usually have cartridge bearings for their hubs.. Don't know if they are radial or something else though.

[@JohannaMueller57]

good lord, what a load of crap.

[@Radoslaw731]

ton of crap :)

[@Radoslaw731]

thumbs up my friend

[@philt6725]

I have many bikes. My old sealed square taper lasted for 10 years. My modern bottom brackets need replacing every year.

[@EC-ol8nz]

Good video! BMX cranks have had hollow chromoly and titanium cranks for years. Other companies like Bullseye, Hutch, Redline and Profile have had their 2 piece axle/crank combo as well.For over 30 years. With 48 spline axles and larger bearings. Profile has a line that fits into euro bottom bracket with outboard (larger) bearings housing (ceramic bearings sold aftermarket). The setup with hollow chromoly cranks, Titanium gun drilled hollow axle, and ceramic bearings. Is lighter than Shimanos standard crank setup and 5X times stiffer and 2.5X stronger. So yes, It was outdated over 30 years ago but the J.I.S. axle is still a classic for some applications. The other hollow axle stuff Shimano inadvertently copied over the years..., skip it and go for the real Profile stuff... you wont regret it! Great video to discuss bike tech!

[@ramphl]

Absolutely agree about bearing. I think they first became popular when small manufactures entered the market and did not have the ability to produce cup and cone bearings and so used cartridge getting instead. I have a couple of sets of wheels with XT cup and cone beatings and have never had to service the bearing. With cartridge bearing they seem to fail quit quickly.

[@InCountry6970]

A Shimano UN-51 square taper BB from the XTR series bikes, goes for near three hundred dollars in eBay. Old yes, but they are extremely well made and long lastings. New isn't always better

[@xGshikamaru]

I like my square taper bb. Low maintenance, no creaking, very good lifespan. Freewheel on the other hand is a disaster indeed

[@rcworks9762]

I didn't have serious wear issues of chains, cogs and sprockets until I went 8 speed. Chains last 90 days, cogs and sprockets have to be changed every 2nd chain. I never had that on 5 speed systems. I used to run 14-18 rear with 39/53 front. It was cheap and I was fast. Now it's not cheap and the only benefit is the 11 or 12 tooth cog. :( Not happy. My chains get cleaned and oiled weekly using the Park chain cleaner and Triflow.

[@edgarstudillo5649]

Last year i started cycling and the road bike i bought had 14-24 6 speed free Wheel, it didnt last long so i sold it and bought an used caad8, now im planning to upgrade it with the new shimano sora and keep banging the roads!!

[@gggg-xx6gx]

Edgar Studillo buy 105 😊

[@jonathanzappala]

new sora is great, properly indexed it shifts better than any 105 bike I have ever ridden. Probably because they were not as well indexed. All the new sora is is a 9 speed 105. All the same shift mechanisms.

[@xavierriedel9982]

ten minutes of my life i'll never get back

[@fredholland7525]

The worst part of a "freewheel" is the outer most bearing if the wheel on the drive side is under the first two gears. As you shift to the smaller cogs you put more and more lateral force on the axel. When I was racing I would break a real axel every year. Once I went to using cassette systems I quit breaking axels.

[@sacvalleyntrak]

I found your comments just in time. My square taper BB is behaving for now (after 3 service visits) but it looks like my chain wheels are heading towards a shark fin hook. I found a great price on Shimano Deore M590 9 speed triple. I just need to confirm the BB width and I'll order to hold in reserve. Thanks. PS: Last year I did a wheel upgrade that included an 11-speed free wheel hub and shimmed it down to 9 speed.

[@bellavia5]

I like the one piece freewheel. The cassettes don't inspire much confidence as far as structural integrity. I replaced a cassette system with a vintage Italian Regina freewheel. Bee-yoo -tee -full.

[@mtbboy1993]

I switched to Chris king headset on my trek 6300, Chris king bsa BB 30 will be installed too, with Race Face turbine cranks. I can't use the cheap outdated stuff because I destroy them by riding them, I'm about 75 kg with all gear on.

[@jeremeyfisher9500]

So I would like to point out, the bottom bracket you are talking about is a bottom bracket cartridge, which is old, but I rather deal with 3 piece BB. They're just ringed bb's with bottom bracket cups ,and are still, with square tapered axles. Usually, I find it easier to maintenance 3 piece bottom brackets. With the sealed bottom brackets, you cannot maintenance them. They were designed to be replaced. As for the freewheel, If you're looking for more gears/lightweight then I would say get a cassette. But in seriousness, I really think it doesn't matter. You're going to have to replace both anyway. There's a market for freewheels since people still have vintage bicycles that they want to ride. Bottom bracket cartridge bearings? I wouldn't trust it.

[@ratoneJR]

Bearing position inside a freehub is what makes a cassette style hub better. A stronger design. The average guy does not require that and replacement freewheels are $15. A Park Tool FR 1.3 is $7.90. Actually, a one piece crank (OPC) design is bullet proof. It may be heavy but is easily adjusted and maintained with a $5 (Harbor Freight) adjustable wrench. Pedal choices may be limited. Loose ball bearings are the way to go. Cone wrenches are $5. For the 99% of riders, new tech is a waste of money and a hassle.

[@flinch622]

As I understand it, cone bearings are just a variant of a caged ball bearing design where the races are different. I'd be interested to find out if some group has tested spherical bearings in a bicycle application. [Shape is like a mini wine cask, and races are ground concave to allow minor deviations but maintain average centerline distance during off axis events without walking] They can accommodate minor side loading and axis distortion [like might happen on rough roads at speed]. Generally, they are favored for heavier loads, and design needs lightening for a bicycle application. Because feet are 180 degrees apart, hitting bumps always causes minor axis deviations. Weight issues? Yes, but maybe drilling bearing cores and interference fitting titanium at center can reduce mass while maintaining rigidity - leaving 0.5mm minimum thickness of race compatible metal at outermost edges after polishing might be acceptable.

[@shwndh]

Have old Ultegra Octalink cranks on my road bike. I told myself I would upgrade to new 11 speed when they wore out. It's been 13 years on the original BB and I'm still waiting. The new stuff is just lighter, nothing wrong with the old stuff.

[@jeffbrunton3291]

Perhaps you could do a video on the opposite, an old part that is not outdated, in fact has adapted extremely well. I have the FH7403 Dura ace hubs from the early 90s, and use them with a variety of bikes. This was the model that Shimano made for the transition from UG to HG cassettes. It has domed nuts so fits in old frames at 126mm width, and also modern frames at 130mm width. It takes a 8 speed UG threaded cassette, or a modern 9 or 10 speed cassette. So they will work well with almost any bike made over the last 50 years. The hubs are some of the best Shimano ever made, with a grease port that slides open / closed for easy maintenance. They are over 25 years old and still spin forever. Sometimes used on my '61 cross bike with friction shifting down tube levers, or on my 2013 Cannondale superx with 10 speed STIs I love handing this wheelset, laced to Mavic GEL 280s, (280g rims) to people who are shocked to realise these ~25 year old wheels are lighter than their lightest newest expensive carbon wheels.

[@121mcvUK]

not sure about the square taper ... think about the ROI .... mine is fine after 8 years .... im looking to up grade my crankset as the chainrings are slowly wearing out .. square taper with replaceable rings is the way forward for me

[@VenerandoMoore]

Some bikes in the Philippines use two strokes gasoline engines. They called it "kuliglig". Kuliglig bikers considered hollowtech an outdated technology.

[@danielgraham3447]

Definitely agree - freewheels are bad news. Cheap - yes, but heavy, difficult to remove and as others have said, unsupported axle means bent or broken axles. I had a 7 speed freewheel that broke the axle every 2 years.

[@rrrandommman]

My bike cost 600 AUD, it has a cassette not a free hub and a sealed bottom bracket with tapered roller bearings but has a tapered square crank spindle. Is it worth upgrading my commuter bike with a two piece crank and bracket?

[@0nlyinStraya]

I've serviced many many hubs to find pitted freehub bearings, which generally means replacing the whole freehub or with non standard hubs, the whole hub. With spin on freewheels the freewheel is replaced along with the sprockets, which removes the issue of extra bearing race wear within the hub. I'd say the only 2 disadvantages of a spin on cluster is the gear range (minimum sprocket size is 13 teeth) and the lack of axle support on the drive side which can potentially lead to bent or broken hub axles.

[@ericherrera5405]

"potentially lead to bent or broken hub axles" ... it has been my experience that it always leads to damage. ....just my 2 cents ...

[@danb1913]

WHENEVER YOU REPLACE YOUR REAR FREEWHEEL OR CASSETTE YOU NEED TO REPLACE THE CHAIN AS WELL FOR SHIFTING PURPOSES. BB-bottom bracket REPLACEMENT is dependant upon the crankset you are running, some aftermarket cranksets you need to run different BB and you can get self extracting BB bolts,

[@DBYNOE]

you didn't mention that the old freewheel gear set also had the gear side bearing a greater distance from the dropouts causing way more bent/broken axles.

[@Crymzon1980]

Just because the parts are "outdated" doesn't mean they aren't useful, I still prefer older components despite them being heavier, they still last a good while and also are cheaper to replace compared to newer systems. If i Buy a walmart bike, as far as components i just replace the bottom bracket to a sealed one, and probably the tires if i want better ones, and for most of these older components its easier to buy your own tools to replace them especially if you don't have a bike shop in your city.

[@francoisz5275]

Freewheel, much safer option! Why ? Because freehub body could simply fail. Once they fail, if you cannot find an exchange part throw up the whole wheel. Price, 3 to 5 time more expensive... Bottom bracket, yeah outside bearing great... Smaller bearings go only problems, more expensive... Throw up the whole crankset if their is wearing between the crank axle and the bearing. Yeah cup and cone, what to do if the cone is worn out, again throw up the wheel? I have a wheel with around 150 000 km still working, only 3 bearing change, total cost less than 15€...

[@dexietyy7922]

Only thing I hate about square taper crank sets is after months of hard peddling it’s literally impossible to get the crank arm off which is super annoying

[@Tearstank]

Ny bottom bracket cartridge bearings on my Habit were dead after 1200km. That was really surpricing to see how fast they wear out. Maybe they were so so quality, got better now and will see how long they last...

[@Goriaas]

I disagree so much square taper, is amazing, it's strong, stiff and reliable, only downside, it's heavier. freewheels are great as long as they don't wobble too much(depends on the threads on the hub). "they are harder to service" bollocks, the exact opposite you just exchange it and GET A FREEHUB(ratchet mechanism) service WITH IT. Only downside is that they are limited to 13-28 pretty much (there are also 13-34, 14-34, 14-28 ones out there though)

[@MTWODZU]

I use wheels with cartridge bearings only in my street bike because it is used in better conditions than MTB. My MTB has angular bearings, which are very easy to maintain.

[@phschnei7548]

square tapers bb will allways run better than normal tow pice bb because they are not vulnerable to errors on the frame

[@jasonb638]

Well, he's not really saying they're bad, just outdated. Meaning with all the advances that bike manufacturers have made, they're just old news. When you go to buy a new shimano octalink, usually they call it NOS (new old stock), because that's exactly what it is, old stock. I recently went from octalink to fsa Isis on my road bike, and I had no problems with the octalink. the freewheel is definitely outdated and less efficient than the cassette, and as for seals bearings, I can't really say because the only bearings that are sealed on mine are the headset, and the bottom bracket. never had an issue with sealed bearings, but both sets of wheels I have do not have cartridge bearings, but headset, bb, and wheels all run smooth as butter so I can't really say on that.