3 Pros and 3 Cons of The Crowded Room | DID in Media

[@alephnulI]

I remember being scared about the impact of The Crowded Room, then it came out and nobody was talking about it. I didn't want to watch it, but none of my friends watched it either, even the couple who liked tom holland, so I ended up not knowing about it. It's been a while now, and it's like it never happened. I'm kind of surprised so see a video about it now. So that's a relief to my system, the impact wasn't that considerable.

[@TheEntropySystem]

I think a big part of that is that it was exclusive to Apple TV+. That seems to be shows go to die. I think if it were on HBO or Netflix or even Amazon the impact would have been bigger. I'm grateful that the impact was as small as it was. -Wyn

[@Cologram]

@@TheEntropySystemI totally agree. It’s kinda weird how little of an impact Apple TV+ originals have when compared to Netflix/HBO/Prime.

[@TangleHamain]

The inner world visualisation is actually really dope! I didnt even think of showing it like that, thats amazing!

[@TheEntropySystem]

It was honestly stunning. The best inner world representation I've ever seen. -Wyn

[@Fezzes_Are_Cool]

@@TheEntropySystem agreed along with the underground from janes system in doom patrol!

[@whimsylore]

We watched an interview with Akiva Goldsman, and it turns out he is a childhood survivor of SA. From the inteview, it sounded like he wanted to tell his own story but couldnt quite come at it directly, so he co-opted Billy Milligan`s story. In the interview, he said many of the changes (location, some events, etc) were from his own life. He's not a system with DID, himself, but is fascinated with trauma responses. He's pretty good at depicting human nature in general (with his writing in Star Trek: Strange New Worlds), but even in the interview he made declarative statements about DID that were patently false (such as his claim that DID only forms thru childhood SA, as if any other form of trauma or situation couldn't do it). Even that interview was such a mixed bag of reactions for us to watch... it makes sense that his show would also be such a mixed bag of "on alignment" and "off alignment" too....

[@whimsylore]

Also, it sounds like he pulled the lack of system responsibility thing from court cases involving conjoined twins, since it was decided there that if one twin committed a crime you couldnt put them both in jail, since the other twin wanted nothing to do with what ended up happening. Dunno if that was his rationale, the interview didnt mention that, but from your summary that's what it sounds like....

[@TheEntropySystem]

I'm very sure he had pure intentions and he is an amazing storyteller. I wonder what good he could have done had he researched DID more or talked to the community. As for the system responsibility thing, I just assume it is building off of the real Billy Milligan case which had similar arguments to make sure he was ruled innocent. -Wyn

[@whimsylore]

​@@TheEntropySystem Agree. It's such a disappointment. Makes me wonder if he even watched Moon Knight. Good representation is already right there! 🤦‍♀️

[@solitaremagnet]

We've been curious about that show ever since y'all first put a video out about it, so it's exciting to get a breakdown of it :) The inner world, and the moment when Danny goes to kiss and has the moment taken over and left to watch, are so good and resonate deeply with us. It's so confusing to be bumped out of the command seat and ultimately have the interaction feel hollow esp when you don't know you're a system yet. Growing up we dealt with that a lot in social situations and it only further alienated us from our peers because it felt like we had no autonomy and were reacting on autopilot.

[@gwen3822]

Hello entropy! I just want to say that I really like your channel and it has and continues to help me with my DID journey to this day. We have a lot of your videos saved here on youtube because we find your explanations and descriptions really easily digestible and helpful. Much love!! ❤

[@isotonicc]

Hi yall! Whoever did your makeup absolutely slayed

[@TheEntropySystem]

Thank you! Kim Kim did her own makeup for the video. I think she did a fantastic job, too. -Wyn

[@kosmaukaszczyk8401]

i think that the hallucinations were more for a viewer to make understanding certain things easier

[@camufernandez1664]

DID was my hyperfixation for a while and bc of the bad reviews I´hadn´t seen it until now. My expectations were so low that it blew my mind. To me the best part was Rya, the therapist (but I´m studying to be one so I´m biased) bc she says that everyone is imperfect and there´s one full episode of her showing her "bad" sides. You can see that on the mum, the alters, the lawyer. I just finished it and I´m so glad the system reviewed it because the most important opinion is yours, so thank you

[@kitdubhran2968]

Yeah, anyone that says he did what he did because of his DID doesn’t understand how trauma works. He did what he did because of his trauma, and how he responded to it, and because of the choices he made. Lots of people go through similar trauma or other traumas and make different choices. Dumping it all on “it was because of his mental health” is such an annoying cop-out that so many people make about all kinds of things.

[@Senfree]

As the current host of my system, I'm not allowed to access the inner world at all, the gate keeper has a firm stance on that right now. When someone else is out, I'm usually almost like in the passenger seat or in the back seat, if you will. And then my recall is pretty terrible.

[@TheEntropySystem]

I know exactly what you mean. Even now my access to the inner world is far less than anyone else in my system. In the beginning my access was non-existent and I just constantly felt that back seat feeling. -Wyn

[@isotonicc]

As strange as the movie was, I'm really glad you have made this video. Not only to criticise the massive flaws of the crowded room, but also to discuss common disconceptions about DID, that maybe wouldn't get talked about at all if someone hadn't brought it up. You seem much more aware and knowledgable than before your break from youtube, am I right or am I right? 😁

[@TheEntropySystem]

I definitely feel more aware and knowledgeable. More years of living functionally with my disorder definitely helps. I've also been spending a lot of time in online DID communities that are very pro healing and anti-sensationalism. I feel like these communities have helped me grow a lot as a system. -Wyn

[@maze6797]

​@@TheEntropySystemyou should be careful spending too much time in online DID community. if anything try to find something irl. in my experience online DID community is very very different, and even though they all claim to be pro recovery I have yet to find any at all that don't encourage members to put their disorder front and center in their life.

[@Cryptiddartfrog]

@@TheEntropySystemCould you share some positive spaces/resources for us? I have only known about my DID for 2 years with long periods of heavy denial and it’s very isolating

[@jessqinn7702]

Great video!! I’ve been waiting to hear from you on this show. I nearly didn’t keep watching after the first episode. I’m glad I did keep watching. What saved it for me, and was a huge emotional kicker, was towards the end where SPOILER Danny realises that what happened happened to him. Not his brother/someone else/etc etc etc I hated how they forced Danny into the realisation. But yeah. And then that emotional kick was further strengthened for me by the interaction between Danny and his mother. That was rough. The realness of his mums need to deny what happened and the sense that she won’t see him again even though she says it. Really reflected for me the realness of how it can be for a caregiver when they find out and the mixed up-ness of all that stuff. I hadn’t actually thought about the hallucination thing the way you did. I see what you mean. And I reckon you’re right in that the sticking points seem to come from them wanting to keep it as ‘based on Billy Milligan’ and mystery etc. really great video - love your thoughts on media!

[@cca1834]

great video as always! :) also love the frankie earrings!!! you gotta make a video showing off all your monster high stuff in the future

[@lunaudbjrg5457]

Great video as always!! And I absolutely LOVE the MH themed outfit, from the Frankie earrings to the Skullette shirt 🤩 i would lvoe to see your MH collection and stuffs someday!!

[@cutiepeel]

LOVE THIS LOOK 🔥🔥🔥 that shirt is ridiculously cute

[@TheEntropySystem]

Thank you so much!

[@kitdubhran2968]

I do really enjoy these DID media breakdown videos! ❤❤❤

[@cozydaz]

i seriously love these media breakdowns they're so so so interesting to listen to! just curious if you guys have heard of or even seen Mr. Robot... its..... really really good!

[@paigeloria7926]

I’ve been so looking forward to this video and I’m sad my notifications didn’t let me know until 4 days later

[@Sieggis]

I haven't seen it, but I kinda wanna see it. Also, I hope the comment of wanting to get rid of the character and taking a year of was more related to the crimes and violence and the absurdity that there wasn't system accountability over the things. Because that sounds horrible even to me - without even knowing the details and such. Cheers for the vid!

[@AnxietyRat]

Yeah, there are quite a few scenes within the show that look incredibly incredibly emotionally draining to act out multiple times which is usually what has to happen on a show... Doing a take a couple of times in a row... I don't blame him for being drained after that experience. It was probably a really intense acting experience compared to a LOT of other movies/shows that he has done that would only have like one or two really emotionally heavy scenes in it.

[@sparklestorm1236]

WAIT, other people have experienced a gatekeeper forcing alters into dormancy? I thought that was a weird thing that happened (it’s all good now, the persecutor kind of went on a power trip putting alters into dormancy but now he’s fine, don’t worry) to us.

[@soccerandtrack10]

2:43 comment on reds video about secret identities= "You don't know their a super hero in school if you're not looking for it.",i don't remember who.

[@ninreck5121]

wonderful breakdown, thank you!

[@riverjewett4031]

I want a show about Jenny haynes now. It's only fair. Jenny Haynes is a real story about people like us getting justice.

[@MerryDaisy-il7pw]

I thought mine was ADHD. Cause we already had that diagnosis and we didnt know what DID exactly was until all my doctors were like Personality disorder. But yeah. Thats how my brain found out

[@TheoSwinford]

YAY! So glad y'all made this video! We wanted to know about the rep in the crowded room but didn't want to watch bc we weren't sure how triggering it might be.

[@RialVestro]

I didn't even watch it but from your descriptions I would hate it. It does portray experiences I personally can relate to. I grew up shows and movies with charaters like this that I could relate to. But it's because of that mixed with the misrepresentation that also made me afraid to admit that I related to characters like this, afraid to seek help, and even when I was in therapy for a different reason I tried to avoid talking about it cause I was afraid of what would happen to me if anyone found out I was experiencing these kind of symptoms. A lot of shows and movies also portrayed medical treatments I didn't want to be forced into which is another reason I knew I had these symptoms but intentionally kept it hidden. It wasn't till I shared these fears and my therapist assured me those were outdated treatments that didn't really exist anymore that I finally shared all of my symptoms and was officially diagnosed.

[@TheEntropySystem]

I'm so sorry you lived in fear for so long. -Wyn

[@soccerandtrack10]

I just rewatched mr.robot like yesterday or before, 1st episode=reasons alters are made. Then later i could just rewatch it because interesting.

[@DameMinou]

You made have made a video about this before, but do you/an alter get to “create” the inner world? Like did you decide you wanted it to be an island and then change it, or does it just come and then change on it own?

[@TheEntropySystem]

The island was something that just sort of existed. Our current inner world city is actively kept going by two alters, Ed and Os. -Wyn

[@HelloCoco888]

I am a singleton (and a simpleton) so excuse my ignorance here please. From my limited knowledge based on watching all the main DID channels here on KZbin, there is no “real person” in a system all parts/alters make up the whole right? Following this hypothesis, what happens if one alter consents and engages in intimate relations with somebody that the “host” would not consent to or if they have amnesia of what went on when that alter had taken over, could they say they have been assaulted? Could somebody be charged with assaulting the host if they engaged in relations with an alter who gave them consent? What if the host has no idea yet that they have DID/yet to be diagnosed?

[@maze6797]

there was a plot line with these themes in United States of Tara

[@plague2179]

i forgot yhis was happening, saw this video and it came flooding vack haha. great to see you

[@kosmaukaszczyk8401]

alters of main character in crowded room are very simmilar to alters that billy milligan had

[@kosmaukaszczyk8401]

also how their system is functioning is also simmilar to how arthur (billy's persecutive gatekeeper) described his system .

[@devonmunn5728]

@@kosmaukaszczyk8401 which adds to even if they changed stuff it's still clearly based off of the real life system

[@Es-Flowers]

I cannot remember much of this (even though we watched it all...), but I think the biggest thing was did not like was the misconception of an original. I do remember you talking about the idea of a "real" and "fake" alter, but we also just do not like the original theory because it just... well, it's outdated, and not actually how DID or OSDD-1 develops, since the entire point of these disorders is that multiple states develop BEFORE a singular one can even be formed. But I understand given the time this show takes place too. I think it would be less frustrating if so many media for systems just wasn't spreading the "original" rhetoric despite the fact that that isn't actually how it happens with everyone splitting off of one single person (well later on yes but I mean as the disorders develop). Though I can also understand that a lot of older systems too who were in therapy and such around the time do have what they experience as orginals too. I do understand that perception can have a lot to do with it, but just in the way I mean as in as far as childhood developments go, that no one is even born with one singular and cohesive identity in the first place.

[@TheEntropySystem]

I debated a lot on whether or not to include that in this video. They regularly imply that Danny is the original (though idk they ever use the word outright) and they call the alters fake. Even the alters call themselves fake. Ultimately I decided to just let it slide as a biproduct of how MPD was understood at the time. But I agree, it is frustrating to have the idea of an original pushed so hard in nearly every piece of media there is. -Wyn

[@paigeloria7926]

I had a very similar reaction to you. I knew it was based on DID because my own therapist told me I should watch it. I immediately was like “I hate this depiction of systems being violent!” She basically told me to calm down, he didn’t kill anyone lol. The portrayal of the alters being separate and seen externally by Danny made me do some research because I thought that didn’t happen at all. But apparently it does sometimes. The big thing that threw me for a loop was Danny’s mom talking about his “brother” too. It took me well into the series to figure out the brother was also an alter.

[@TheEntropySystem]

The way Danny's mom talks about the "brother" and the reaction when the cop sees the drawing of Ariana (as if she fits witness descriptions of the shooter) are both super weird and make zero sense in the context of the story. Just weird moments put in to be red herrings that made quality of the whole show suffer. -Wyn

[@devonmunn5728]

I agree, Tom Holland's interviews saying how "heavy" this show was also rubbed me the wrong way as well. Like saying how "tough" it was that he needed to take a break from acting felt quite icky Also side note: Hearing Friendly Space Ninja eviscerate this show in his Worst Shows of 2023 was oddly satisfying

[@alephnulI]

At thetime, my friend thought he was trying to play victim and not be blamed for any backlash, because people were talking about how bad the origins or this show were, and there were talks about boycotting it. Some interviews sounded like he was just whining about a possible boycott

[@ameliab324]

I mean, actors do have a right to their lives, and if he actually decided to take a break, it's kinda normal that people expected some explanation and he gave it to them. It may sound weird to someone who has never acted that 'just a role' can be heavy on an actor's mental health, but I assume it can be as stressful as any other job plus handling others' opinions and having to engage in one project and story for many months at a time can be additionally hard.

[@alephnulI]

@@ameliab324 what's offputting isn't that he had a hard time with the job and needed a break. It's the way he worded it. Over and over again in different interviews.

[@Chr0mium_D5rkened]

@@alephnulI May I ask how so? I did not like the words about that as well in the video to be honest, because I did not really hear much of this situation before just thought that things felt icky because he needed a break, which I mean... lets be honest sounded pretty weird because obviously some people are going to have issues with some roles and will have trouble as well... acting out something for a short amount of time is very different then getting fully into the mindset of the character and just starting to realize things about your own mental health as well... However if you are saying this than it appears I was wrong. May I ask how he worded things in the interviews?

[@alephnulI]

@@Chr0mium_D5rkened I can't really go in details because it was a lot of time back, specially since I have DID and my memory sucks. I just remember I watched and read a lot of his interviews, like I did with Oscar Isaac after Moon Knight, and Oscar Isaac never made me feel anywhere as uncomfortable as Tom Holland did talking about it. I remember Tom Holland saying several times that this role terrified him, it felt a bit dehumanizing. Specially once there was an interview where he was talking about people cosplaying his character in halloween, like DID was inherently a terror trope. He'd refer to stuff as "crazy" like his crazy hair, and crazy behaviour, and while I don't usually police language in that aspect, it feels different in this context. I remember once he was going on about how hard it's to play "a character that's PRETENDING to be another character", which was another yikes. He once talked about how they didn't want to say DID in the beginning because they wanted to introduce his character as a human, and that sounded so bad, like it's implying people with DID aren't human. It's just the way he said it, because I remember Oscar Isaac saying similarly they wanted people to connect with Steven before introducing Marc, but Holland's words and his tone just hit different.

[@thefreckledwonder1140]

i see what you mean, honestly i think if this wasnt a mystery like you mentioned at the end (and wasnt based on billy mulligan) it would be a pretty well rounded, if still slightly incorrect, rep of DID. mystery can of course have a place in a DID story (See- Moon knight, im sorry i will never stop calling back to moon knight) but it is a bit tiring to see almost every media of DID be largely a mystery, and a murder mystery at that. since i havent watched it i cant really have a super stromg opinion on it but i dont think i can get past the billy mulligan connection. it has the same vibe as like, netflix romanticising dahmer in that docudrama they made. As always, really awesome video and i hope you are all doing well!!

[@TheEntropySystem]

Never apologize for calling back to Moon Knight. That show was peak 🙌🏻 -Wyn

[@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana]

What do you think of I Hate It Here? It seems to be meant to be a true love 💗 duet about 2 alters who dislike fronting and bond over how much they hate the world 🌍 and society. It is a very sweet 🍰 true love 💗 story. Though it has a very different interpretation of how DID works than the standard one. I don't think Taylor Swift even knows that is what it is about. She has the unusual (but not exclusive) ability to go into a trance-like state where her Unconscious does most of the writing ✍. If she did, she might not have put it out because of how controversial it is.

[@TheEntropySystem]

I haven't heard it but I'll definitely give it a listen! Thank you for the suggestion -Wyn

[@siobhanmerrill5730]

I loved this show. Especially the "underwater" thing. When Rabbit Cries is the book that made me aware of my condition. None of mine can really do anything. Like you having this show, or the woman in the Troops for Trudi memoir being in real estate. I've only been maintaining this one "forward" self for 20 years or so. And I'll most likely die before another 20 go by. I don't think of it as a system. Some of mine are homicidal towards each other. The little ones are really really mad. I just stay away from other people and don't get triggered

[@crazycatboysolomon7006]

What's the point in hiding the "reveal" that the characters are alters in a system when everybody already knows the show is based off a story of someone with DID?

[@ilexdiapason]

it was done well in moon knight, which i guess had an upper hand because a lot of mcu fans would be going in blind without reading the comics, but still?

[@TheEntropySystem]

That's what I thought! It was advertised as a DID story and Billy Milligan had a successful Netflix documentary a few years ago so it's not like his story is unknown. So why try to mislead the audience with a bunch of red herrings? -Wyn

[@siobhanmerrill5730]

PS. Definitely see why Holland took time off after the show. You're obviously not an actor