30 years of FPS innovation has led to THIS

Bungie is working on a new project, and it has the potential to shake up the world of video games - a second time.
Marathon is an upcoming extraction shooter, and while it may eventually end up in the bucket of "Games like Escape from Tarkov", it's being developed by a game studio with a long history of innovative shooters. We don't know much about the new Marathon game, but we have years of experience with its creator - so why does this new Bungie game matter? Come find out.
Support Voxel on Patreon! patreon.com/voxelshow

[@MikeauxlGaming]

Had to like just for the honest plot twist at the end lol

[@VoxelShow]

Because you never know, right? Here's hoping Bungie turns it around and makes something great. But if they don't - and the game is a garbage fire - then the story of it all will *also* be fascinating! Marathon matters because it's Bungie's chance at redemption in the public eye. We'll have to wait and see how they act on that opportunity.

[@jakethesnake630]

Hah got a follow from me just for that! Always good to see a healthy dose of gamer cynicism 😆

[@gamer2021]

​@@VoxelShowdid you never play Doom? Doom had mouse controls a full year before Marathon. I'd even doubt the other aspects of the innovations you claim they made because that was a period where innovation was happening with every game being released in some basic way shape and form as it was the very beginning of games. They're not even innovating on escape from tarkov, until we see what they've done. This is just a giant circle jerk for Bungie.

[@chadgendason]

If they only hired Marty to do the music.. He was so much more than that to them tho..

[@Flamme-Sanabi]

Got proof of that?@@gamer2021

[@HumanityAsCode]

Im pretty dubious about Marathon. The lore seems related to the original Marathon but it would hard for me to say "Wow, all of those incredible PVE campaign experiences were leading up to a live service game where people can kill and steal from other players." It seems more likely to me that Sony's push for more live service games led to Bungie making a new game that fits into the current corporate meta of Free to Play PVP shooters

[@niks660097]

well, no one is better at live service games than bungie, they started that crap with destiny 1 and everyone followed, i am pretty sure its gonna be evolution of "always connected" to make more money..

[@justanidiotmk2749]

It's good to be skeptical, but Bungie would literally be crucified if they bastardize the marathon franchise.

[@aiodensghost8645]

Unfortunately, us PVP Destiny players have been so neglected, about 50-78% of us will go over to Marathon upon release.

[@stealthhunter6998]

This was leaked as an extraction shooter before playstation. So I am gonna assume playstation saw this and were more excited about this being their apex legends and know how valuable destiny 2 as a franchise is (regardless of opinion its top 10 in population on steam for the last 4 years and one of the most played franchises since destiny 1 so 9 years) and seeing all this + whatever "Matter" is evaluated them to 3.6 bilion dollars dispite from public perception only having 1 IP active.

[@marcohorodnichev9489]

Tbh, yeah you are right but most of the kids that will be playing it don't even know there was a lore to it

[@Mini_ORemix]

This video doesn't take into account that Bungie is not the same as it was a decade ago. The clear vision of Jason Jones is no longer there, the absolute mastery to tell a story of Joseph Staten, the genius sounds of Marty O'Donnell and Michael Salvatori, or the beautiful visuals of Marcus Lehto. None of that is there, and these are only the most known people, but what about the whole crew who made these games and pushed the skills that were already there even further, and not only that, with 3 years between games only. I hope I'm wrong and the team at Bungie is better than ever and blow it up as the past Bungie used to do, but I think Bungie has succumbed to the AAA standard. Only time will tell and I hope Marathon is even better than we could've ever imagined.

[@HuskySansVergogne]

I think that in terms of music or graphics/artistic direction, we are forever safe. That and easy-to-learn and unique, addictive gameplay. A Bungie game always as been immediately recognizable by that. I don't think they've become that bad. Even without the big names Destiny 2 still has beautiful music and environments, and fascinating Lore to follow over the years. Imo the flaws of D2 are the price, the quality of the content for the end game which is uneven over the seasons and big expansions, and at times the writers do stupid things with the story. The gameplay, music and graphics are still as good every time, they never disappoint at this level.

[@tohur]

@@HuskySansVergogne If you think Destiny is a great game you are smoking crack hard my dude

[@CptDansky]

It's unfair to minimize the fact that many of Bungie's employees especially the boots on the ground were mentored by these geniuses though. They have a lot of high level turnover but from what I understand - there are a lot of lifers there.

[@gur1363]

​@@CptDansky Salvatori is still with them, Chris Barrett is leading the project and Bungie's old guard is at the helm. Companies change, as people do. This team has been with the company for a long time, and while they're not rockstar auteurs they have years and years of experience with the later Bungie halo games and Destiny

[@Mini_ORemix]

@@CptDansky It's not that I'm minimizing them, it's that they are so few that I can't notice. Leadership has changed and now we got a studio that seems to use the average strategy.

[@Fentiman]

Bungie's earlier works are impressive, but it's hard to get excited when the studio is a husk of its former self. The Bungie today is not the same Bungie that innovated the industry time and time again.

[@TJM990]

They innovated.... just at player retention and milking strats, hence why Sony wanted them. Games though?... Eh, Destiny's not that different from where it was 10 years ago.

[@guardian717]

Yup. Almost none of employees from the old bungie that created Halo. I'm sure game will be filled with micro-transactions and all of that stuff, and gameplay won't be that interesting.

[@brylzy]

@@TJM990 halo innovated in alot of ways more than once (in partnership with xbox live), that cant denied. by the first year of destiny though, most the bungie team was already replaced by ex activision members, with there duty mostly being upkeep. but i think what he is saying is marathon was a idea from the OG bungie team when they were a few guys. Now bungie has none of the those guys and they are claiming that they are bringing back marathon when it isnt theres to begin with, is kinda wrong. this is game already sounds like destiny 3, and its gonna be boring. this smells like what bethesda tried to do with starfield by just remaking fallout in another theme.

[@MoptopTofer]

@@guardian717 Chris Barrett is the game director for Marathon and he's been at Bungie since '99 lmao so that's completely false.

[@touchnurspaghet597]

Ok the right trigger and the m&k being done first by bungo I honestly didn't know yet WHAT THE FUCK DID THEY INNOVATE IN DESTINY? As of last year of D1 they didn't give a FUCK about PvP anymore. Hell they're starting to not do anything to D2 now that they revealed the game they've been hinting at since 2018. I honestly feel that this will flop super hard seeing that they tried to make the PvP in destiny actually fun 3 times and are working on the 4th time. Like come on with that track record buying this will be as stupid as buying COD.

[@jaski4022]

this being an extraction shooter instead of just a linear campaign experience (akin to system shock, bioshock, half-life and marathon itself) destroyed any excitement i could had for this project. instead of a step forward, this just feels as a sidestep. a secondary title among hundreds more. i just wanted another arena shooter with a nice solo experience.

[@redvelvet5374]

It's a live service game made by Bungie don't get your hopes up, it's going to blow.

[@hotfightinghistory9224]

Yep and the community will become toxic in a week.

[@oscrsvn]

That's what I'm saying. How many times do we have to go through this whole schpeel about a new game that's "GOING TO CHANGE GAMING FOREVER" and it's just a reskin of another game by some other company? Same thing expecting a different result is literally the definition of insanity. Lets be really REALLY honest here... what could this game do that would change anything? Assuming everyone watching this video is an at least moderately active game consumer and comparing it to any recently released game (completely uninspired, rehash of something already done, identical mechanics to some other game that was popular and is TOTALLY NOT a cash grab) what do you think the chances are that something that actually reignites gaming for YOU will be added? For me, that chance is less than 10% and at this point I'm pretty sure that 10% is just me being really hopeful. Was Halo CE made off the back of some other game? Maybe inspired, but was it fucking copy pasted like 90% of games are right now? WHY do we need Tarkov 2 by a different company? Is ANYBODY wrong for being skeptical of overhyped promises from developers? I don't think anyone's wrong for it. Why is that?

[@PalmsDesign]

@@oscrsvn I'm not expecting much from this game either, but just because it happens to be a game in a specific genre doesn't mean it cant or wont stand on its own two feet, you could apply that logic to any other shooter that existed along side halo, there are plenty of successful shooters just because Halo existed doesn't mean everything else didn't need to exist, and honestly its too early into this new genre to play the copy paste argument, give extraction shooters the next 5 years at least lmao. That being said this shit could die in the first week.

[@ni9274]

@@oscrsvn It was easier to create new game concepts when gaming only existed for 10-5years, but now it's practically impossible to create a game that isn't similar in some way to an older game. There isn't an infinite number of new game genre that can be created, so it's just wrong to expect every new game to be totally unique and to not have any identical mechanics to other games. A game doesn't need to be totally unique to be good, Baldur's Gate 3 for example isn't good cause it's a unique or innovative game, it's good cause it take the classic CRPG formula and make it way better by improving on the mechanics instead of creating new one.

[@BenHolliday-sx1to]

You're tons of fun at parties, huh?

[@Cimlite]

Doom already had mouse support when it came out, which was way before Marathon. Not sure why people don't remember this, but Doom 1.0 _absolutely_ had it. In fact, I was playing games when Marathon came out... and I remember hearing all my Mac friends raving about it. I was a PC player though, and we already had Doom at that point. But since the much-talked-about Marathon came out quite a bit after Doom, I naturally assumed it would be a massive improvement. So I was super excited when I got to play it for the first time - _and boy was I disappointed._ It felt clunky, slow and unintuitive. It was much closer to gameplay with something like Wolfenstein 3D than it was the far faster and dynamic Doom. The level design was boring. The enemies slow and simplistic. The weapons looked like something ripped out of Blake Stone. Had Marathon been a PC game, it would been _completely_ forgotten by now... much like the other hundreds of Doom-clones around that time. The _only thing_ that separated it was that it was out on Mac, and even back then, Apple didn't exactly cater to gaming. This was all Mac-owners had, so of course they ranted and raved about it. If I am generous, I would say that it's an alright game for it's time - but the myth that built up around Marathon is nothing but a false memory. That said, the art style for the upcoming Marathon looks stellar. So I'm hoping Bungie can pull off some magic and make greatness (like they did with the Halo series).

[@secretninja35]

Console games also used shoulder buttons to shoot, his examples are cherry picked.

[@ilressatore9847]

The moment he say that bigger companies have more funds to develop good products and that' the reason why we have more innovations from bigger companies.. Doom was developed by 5 ppl, basically an indie...I think that guy never played something different from Halo

[@sotesz]

Wait. Wasn't Doom's mouse support that you couldn't aim vertically, and it walked forward/back instead? If I'm not mistaken, and Marathon had actually proper, complete mouse aim, then I would consider Doom's mouse support almost irrelevant, at the very least far inferior.

[@Cimlite]

@@sotesz Correct, Marathon had mouse aim that went up and down. But Doom still had mouse controls where you turned when moving left/right. Didn't really make much of a difference at that time to be honest since vertical level design wasn't much of a thing in either game.

[@sablebubble4630]

Marathon has an absolutely mindblowing story, I really recommend to check out Mandalorian videos about it. And yes, fully working 3d mouselook and multiplayer. As a game... Yean, it was totally not Doom.

[@stormyprawn]

I know this channel likes narrativize for entertainment purposes (which it succeeds at, these are very entertaining to watch) but I'd be a bit more careful with setting such a high bar for a videogame that hasn't released yet. Bungie makes mistakes too and even decades-old studios make games that flop.

[@VoxelShow]

Oh absolutely. I was pretty clear it could go either way. Marathon if anything right now is barely a prototype of a game. But honestly it's not the *game* so much as it is the context of the game that I'm excited about - really about games *in general* - and the ability to identify milestones throughout history that we can compare back to. If Marathon is a failure, it will be as much an interesting case study as if it is a success. Dunno, I find that really exciting!

[@stormyprawn]

@@VoxelShow I see what you mean now, good point.

[@rattleboned]

@@VoxelShow As a consistent Destiny 2 player and a ""fan"" of Bungie since Halo, I can assure you that context means NOTHING when it comes to the new Bungie that is carrying the torch of the studio. They sell their preorders off of "context" and then when the actual product releases, universal disappointment. On top of that, if it is actually good, it comes with many cons that make the players wonder why they even bought into the hype in the first place. I think Lightfall's marketing campaign is a perfect example of what Bungie has become and using that as a frame of reference, taking everything Bungie says about this game even with a grain of salt is underkill and we should be DEMANDING that Bungie actually puts out a good game. With their recent 3.6B$ acquisition by Sony, for them to be acting the way they do with Destiny is abhorrent and part of me prays those practices get carried over to Marathon at release so the gaming industry can see Bungie as the wing ridden angel they truly have become. But I do agree, interesting either way.

[@genin69]

yeah this video is not going to age well but he prob made a few coins off it

[@masacote_]

There is no gameplay yet

[@jonnyboi2967]

1:37 i was not a 90s kid but i believe that games before marathon (e.i., before freelook) were *not* controlled using arrow keys to move and wasd to look. For example, doom were controlled left and right arrow keys to look left and right and the up and down arrow keys to go forward and back ward (ctrl to shoot, spacebar to use). Ive also played a control config (in doom, hexen and wolf 3d) which was mouse up to go forward; mouse down to go back; mouse left to look left; mouse right to look right; left click to shoot; spacebar to use.

[@willie606]

after NetEase putting 100 mill into bungie, i have zero faith that Marathon will be anything other than a money sucking game covered in a thick layer of sbmm and battle passes

[@VoxelShow]

If rumors are true, NetEase's investment into Bungie may have had to do with the mobile game that Bungie is reportedly developing. Eh. I probably won't play it, nor have I seen much out from the media about how the investment has affected Bungie's design principles. If I were to guess, the investment was specifically targeted at the creation of the mobile game and not much else. I'll reserve judgement for whatever we see next out of the studio now that they're with Big Daddy Sony.

[@adamgroszkiewicz814]

Agreed

[@nicknevco215]

NetEase well the drops expectations

[@soluxis6953]

I feel like my expectations plummeted when Bungie was mentioned, and then hit the floor when the words "extraction shooter" were mentioned. Bungie WAS great, but I find it hard to muster any excitement about anything made by them in recent years, especially when it's another extraction shooter/battle royale game that's dropping into an already saturated market. That doesn't scream innovation to me.

[@AngeySoup]

Y’all need to realize that Bungie isn’t Bungie anymore. The people that used to work at Bungie pre Destiny are long gone

[@AngeySoup]

@thebestwes777 But they are though? Most of the people who worked on the good Bungie games are gone man. Most of the people working on Destiny weren’t there when Halo was being developed.

[@AngeySoup]

@thebestwes777 Nah, Joseph Staten, Max Hoberman, Harold Ryan, and Jaime Griesemer were very important people no longer at Bungie. Drop in quality goes to show too. Went from making timeless classics to soulless crash grabs

[@AngeySoup]

@thebestwes777 And you implied that I was wrong to begin with which I clearly wasn’t but okay

[@AngeySoup]

@thebestwes777 Whatever helps you sleep at night

[@orionfell]

@@AngeySoup nah you were wrong.

[@reztrentnor4380]

Bungie gunplay slaps and the art direction and aesthetic so far goes hard af. That being said..the live service component scares me and it looks like that is what worries most folks talking about this game. Time will tell.

[@noone-em3wc]

bungie is one of the most predatory companies out there when it comes to live service. they are not making this game because they care about the fans, they only care about how much money they can make with as little effort as possible.

[@Naamturd101]

In terms of PvP live service games they're going to have an incredibly hard time overcoming or even competing with Apex. Destiny's movement doesn't hold a candle to it.

[@prncrx]

​@@Naamturd101 they could go the entirely opposite direction, focus on boots-on-the-ground gameplay like in Tarkov or Hunt. There's definitely an audience for it, but whether they'll go against modern gaming trends (i.e. increased chance for profit) is a different story entirely.

[@gur1363]

​@@Naamturd101 Destiny's movement is great

[@Naamturd101]

@@gur1363 it's ok, kind of floaty. It doesn't come close to touching Apex or Titanfall 2 (Titanfall has better movement than Apex, even.)

[@MaxHeadroom.]

What was totally missed was Marathon had one of the first arena style pvp where the arena and game was designed specifically for that. I remember playing it for the first time at a friends house and compared to doom at the time was a sleek, speedy pvp fps like nothing I had experience before. Core gaming memory for me.

[@NicholasBrakespear]

Eeeh... you might want to check the release dates. Marathon released in 1994. System Shock, with its mouse-based aiming (and full body leaning/crouching system) came out a couple of months before it (and that's leaving aside its direct forebear, Ultima Underworld). Incidentally, while I'd love to see Marathon turn out well... let's be real: This is a world in which the Bungie of old is long, long dead; not only has their biggest franchise been milked to death and dismantled by Microsoft, but even their subsequent "passion project" has degenerated into microtransaction hell and dubious development practices. And frankly, they have NOT brought "innovation with them to every game they've created"; Halo 1, sure. As a console shooter? It made console shooters truly work for the first time, by turning them into a thinly-veiled tank game with slow but smooth combat. After this, there were a few console-specific innovations (like forge - giving console players a chance to enjoy custom content the likes of which was normally reserved for PC), but nothing that genuinely pushed the FPS genre forward. In fact, arguably the combined successes of Halo and Call of Duty resulted in a stagnation of the genre; with the PC side of things being relegated to lame, half-crippled console ports, and some of the most important lessons about balance, movement and level design - learned by the likes of Doom, Quake, Unreal and Half-Life - being forgotten for more than a decade, until indie devs came along and said "Fine, I'll do it myself", resulting in gems like Dusk, Amid Evil, Ion Fury etc. "I'm psyched to see what a bigger studio with greater resources and a long history can bring to the table." Sorry bro, pretty sure we've already seen what they can bring to the table. Pretty sure what a bigger studio with greater resources can bring to the table is "Unfinished, overpriced mess full of derivative game design and microtransactions." I mean, they've been literally showing us that this is what they can bring to the table for more than a decade now.

[@theskipper1867]

Amen

[@BobyLaPoisse]

Amen

[@Enochulator]

Not to mention that Doom and Wolfenstein 3D had mouse support, too…

[@32BitJunkie]

>Dusk >gem No. Just no. That game is so boring. Got a refund after an hour or two. The fact that you're so down on marathon here makes me think i might actually like it

[@NicholasBrakespear]

@@32BitJunkie Really... that's what you took away from this? Not the observation that there is literally no reason whatsoever to think for even a minute that the big publishers can produce anything other than unfinished garbage... ...but that I'm "down on Marathon", despite not actually mentioning Marathon itself. No wait, I lie - I said: "I'd love to see Marathon turn out well" Mkay, well you go right ahead and throw good money after bad out of sheer petulance if you like.

[@PinkBroBlueRope]

4:43: "Each round of gameplay has you drop into a map with other PLAYERS..." Instantly closed video

[@gorgiablessins3522sdf]

Although this video is more of a love-letter type of deal towards the creators at Bungie, the fact that newer games like Marathon tend to do not that great still stands. The game, as usual, sounds cool. But...with so many studios just not being able to meet expectations along with Bungie themselves with their destiny series, It's hard to get excited for it. Watching this, I had a feeling in my gut. A feeling of excitement and interest. I wanted to believe what Voxel is saying to be true, that Marathon would truly change the industry for the better and allow a flow into a new era of interesting shooters. But, that feeling was battled by my skepticism and my understanding that a statement like that has been made so many times before over and over again. And sadly, I'll have to side with the last 6 or so words Voxel said. Or the game will just suck lol.

[@VoxelShow]

You took the words out of my mouth - this video really *is* a love letter to Bungie, and it's also a bit of a plea to Sony and Bungie both to *do it right*. This could be a cash-grab that borrows the name of the franchise that built Bungie. Or maybe they see it as more than that - and give it the time and attention it needs to really be great. Really the core of my hope for Marathon comes from Bungie breaking from Activision Blizzard and moving to Sony. AB has been wringing players (and game devs) dry for pure monetization*. While Sony's approach to first-party game development and monetization is (so far) very different. There are some circulating fears about Sony trying to move into Live Service games - with TLOU Factions which may never see the light of day. Here's hoping though that they manage to do things differently. 🤞 * Has anyone seen the new Warzone Battlepass? Players only have 48 days to finish it this season, as compared to 60 days from last season. Yikes.

[@gorgiablessins3522sdf]

@@VoxelShow I suppose we can only hope. Your channel is really enjoyable so far and im glad I got randomly recommended your first video. Keep up the great work. With this kind of quality, I bet Voxel will see a compounding rise in viewership. 👍

[@PerfectFitGE8]

What games would you compare Marathon to.

[@rattleboned]

@@VoxelShow I wouldn't be so confident that Sony is going to do it differently, iirc Sony bought Bungie because they wanted to "learn from them" and it's cited by a lot of articles online that in the game development industry's eyes, Bungie "perfected" live service by straddling a game on the gray line between "Free to play" and "Subscription based MMO". I can only see Sony spending the kind of money they did to try and mooch some of that live service $$$ Bungie figured out how to siphon so efficiently

[@purvdragon-sensei]

@@PerfectFitGE8 Hunt: Showdown is peak extraction shooter without getting too autistic about it like Escape from Tarkov. So that’s probably its closest comparison.

[@ajank7]

20 minute video and ou managed to just not say anything meaningful. Just rambling on and on...

[@benc4189]

He doesnt even know the term "battle royal"

[@MadsterV]

While Marathon was the first with mouselook (not fully 3d but the idea was there), the first game to use what is now the standard FPS control was NOT Halo. It was Alien Resurrection on the PSX. The year before that, Goldeneye had a 2-controller mode that did the same, if that counts for you. You could hold N64 controllers by the middle with either hand, so in this mode you dual-wield thumbsticks and z-triggers, the resuld being kind of a Switch controller with no face buttons.

[@nimlouth]

And Timesplitters 1 was a launch title FPS for the PS2 that already used the sticks for move/see and R2/R1 for primary/secondary fire, a whole year+ before Halo. Also, actually the original Wolf3D (and also DOOM) had mouselook before Marathon lmfao.

[@angelgutierrez9581]

Yeah, this was bit annoying that both of the "revolutionary" things he said weren't really that crazy, and also false. I don't think this game that hasn't come out is interesting because bungie made a shooter that you aim with the mouse almost 30 years ago

[@Enochulator]

Marathon was not the first mouse look game. Fake news. Maybe the first to require that method. But Doom and Wolfenstein 3D, even, had mouse look support. The manuals even recommended that you learn that control method.

[@blitz8425]

No shot this game changes the landscape that much. It will be an extraction shooter with a pretty skin, and do everything it can to fleece players.

[@flamingscar5263]

Marathon didnt introduce mouse aiming, even doom had mouse aiming What marathon DID introduce was 4 degrees of aiming, not just 2, in Doom you go left and right, this is why many thought it didnt support mouse aiming, but what Marathon did add was the ability to aim up and down, something that was revolutionary at the time Now instead of you only needing to aim towards the enemy and shooting, you had to aim at the enemy, if the enemy was above, you had to look up, in Doom there was only visable verticality, the game exsited technically on a 2D plane, so aiming "below" an enemy still registered as a hit This allowed Bungie to be much more creative with their enemy desgins in Marathon, they could make eneimes that would fly, and unlike in Doom, it had a more real gameplay impact, where in Doom it was purly visual, you still only needed to aim left or right, in Marathon if an enemy was flying, it meant having to cjanhe your view to look at that flying enemy, not under it, at it Edit: Also we do know it is not a reboot, Bungie did an ARG that gave some lore on the game and told us it takes place after Marathon 2 but before Marathon Infinity

[@VoxelShow]

Yeah, I could have been more clear. Marathon's mouse controls were innovative in their revolutionization of 3D first-person PC shooters. You'd look at Doom today and while yes, it's in first person and yes, it's a shooter, and yes, you technically can use a mouse to rotate the view - it was born in an era where players often used the keyboard to control it even if the light use of mouse controls were available. But further, because of its control scheme and game fundamentals, Doom now feels like something *else*. Like an artifact of FPS games before we truly had FPS games. It's like...looking at a Ford Model T and comparing it to a Honda Civic. Also I would definitely call this a reboot. It's definitely not a remake or remaster - the game is going to be wildly different from the original games. But it's rebooting the series, using elements and ideas from the originals, and either continuing the story or putting a new spin on it after years of inactivity.

[@pie75]

@@VoxelShow This is a misconception. DooM was designed, from the ground-up (as per its designers, playtesters, and manual), with the intention that players would play it with a mouse. All playtesters, especially those who complained that Ultra-Violence was too easy (thus the creation of Nightmare, 'not even remotely fair'), played with a mouse. The main reason that DooM even supports keyboard aiming is because some PC users did not have mice, as they didn't need them for their daily PC use, and unlike Macs, PC's did not often come with mice in the box. As DOS has no GUI. You had to actively seek the setting to disable mouse aim, to not use the mouse to play DooM. If you had a mouse, you played DooM, on DOS, with a mouse, as that was the mode that the game launched in, by default. As well, if you did so desire, you could rebind the movement keys -- and many people did. Almost all DooM Deathmatch Demos you can find from the 90's, use mouse controls, and it's very clear, because the speed of the mouse is significantly higher than the keyboard, which lacks even acceleration. More personally -- Marathon feels like crap compared to DooM. It's clunky, with a high sense of weight, where everything requires pre-conceived intention in order to get it done. The mere fact it expects you to figure out using a rocket to gain vertical height (in a game with no jumping) in order to get some items, should speak bounds. Marathon, like the first Halo, is described as a Dance, with weight, and elegance. This is a farcry from modern games, which prioritise twitch reactions, and immediate responses. DooM is simple, yes. But it's just as responsive as it was in 1994. Everything happens immediately, and you don't need to think about your momentum as though it were a tool for anything other than moving in straight lines.

[@thebigsam]

How can game take place before Infinity... if Infinity didn't happen in main timeline?

[@NinjaRunningWild]

@@VoxelShowYour views are not shared by the _huge_ Doom modding community. The Marathon community… oh, right _what Marathon community?_

[@NinjaRunningWild]

@@pie75 Doom via sourceports is even better. Marathon has Aleph, which is competent, but bland compared to many Doom mods.

[@sErgEantaEgis12]

Marathon wasn't the first FPS with mouse support, Wolfenstein 3D in 1993 had mouse control too.

[@LM-cc7qz]

You know what's crazy, that one game was halo 2. It made me want to know how it worked, how games were made, I played more old genre defining games when I was young and it changed me. Then there was Minecraft, a game that made me go "I have to be a maker, I have to make games". And now, I do.

[@zenadir1209]

bungie now and bungie 20 years ago are different companies so dont get your hopes up

[@cgaldieriYT]

Uhhhhh, as if the original shareware version of Doom didn't already have mouse support

[@thelemon5069]

Literally came to check for this

[@NinjaRunningWild]

Even Wolf3D had mouse support.

[@E.nuel21]

everyone please have your expectation low....its Bungie, they don't overdelivery, it creates a pattern. expect them to say "content is too hard".

[@gs8494]

This, 100% this. While I'm sure that Justin Truman of Bungie thought his GDC 2022 presentation on how to make a successful live service game was genius level game development, I'm pretty sure that it will age like milk in a desert, that they thought that way wasn't a surprise to me, to go on stage and announce to the world with out the slightest hint of irony was mind blowing for all the wrong reasons.

[@SpicyGavino]

Wow, I genuinely hadn’t heard that Bungie was working on a new title until this video. I’m really hoping that the game pans out. The bungie website used to be my homepage every time I opened my web browser growing up, and I loved the general atmosphere the studio created during the late Halo-era. Destiny was a huge let down for me and I haven’t picked up a Bungie title since. Here’s hoping. Great video man, hope this one small comment helps boost the algorithm the way this channel deserves.

[@timewaster504]

With any luck it goes better than all the destiny releases

[@11Survivor]

This is the same Bungie as the Destiny Bungie dumbass, Halo Bungie is dead. Dead. I'm sorry to break it to you but none of the devs are mutual across these games.

[@sovo1212]

Let your hope die, nothing will change with Marathon.

[@DeadStawker]

Nothing of original Bungie remains now in 2023 tho

[@Jet-ij9zc]

Please, I can't stress this enough. Do not pre-order. The bungie you know of is dead. Don't get me wrong, it could be good, but it's at best a 50/50 between a good game and an underbacked microtransaction riddled mediocre game.

[@g-me2504]

Keep in mind that no one from Bungie 30 years ago are in the company anymore.......

[@bartosz_xenon]

Uhh, so how many people that worked on the first Marathon game are now working on the new one?

[@TFBpersonalaccount]

Very cautiously optimistic here. without being a downer, the Bungie now isn’t the same bungie as 30, 20 or even 10 years ago, most of those devs have left and it shows. As someone who’s put over 4,000 hours into the destiny franchise, I’ve watch their direction and motivations change. I love their work but it feels they’re no longer the innovators, hell they even changed their motto from “we create games that we want to play” to “we make games that inspire friendship”, like that’s sweet and all but friendship and online extraction shooter do not go in the same sentence. I’m not saying it won’t be a good game and I’m really looking forward to playing it, but nowadays, getting hyped for games seems to only lead to disappointment, especially since bungies biggest strength is creating hype and incredible trailers. Cautiously optimistic.

[@thebigsam]

The only thing that new Marathon needs to deliver is to cast Gianni as Durandal

[@ZeMewo]

and Seigi as Tycho

[@tohur]

Marathon is gona be bust because this bungie is NOT the bungie that made marathon in the first place

[@dexterity494]

If there's a genre I have a love/hate relationship with, it's looter shooters. Basically for the exact reasons you said. I get demolished too often, and I have no sense of progression, so it feels like repetition over and over of have nothing, spawn, die, repeat. But one thing I would absolutely love to see is a roguelike inspired looter shooter. Yes, there is loot in tarkov and the cycle and whatnot, but I'm imagining everyone has the same (or very similar) weapons and instead progress through items, similar to games like Risk of Rain and The Binding of Isaac. From there, you would drop everything except your weapons, meaning you have a >0 starting point when you go again, but the person that killed you still gets a big boost. I don't think Marathon is going to do this, but it would be cool to see.

[@sethyoder7996]

*extraction shooter Looter-shooter is super broad and basically means - Shooters that have a big emphasis on finding/using equipment. Borderlands is a great example, but Destiny could also count.

[@Urkstore]

Escape from Tarkov isn't free to play and doesn't have micro-transactions. That IS the difference. That's why everyone in the comments disagrees with you. It's very clearly going to be another cash grab from Bungie. Stop hyping shit up for companies that don't deserve our free advertising. Until they can prove to the community that they care about a good game with a good story more than money, I'm not giving Bungie any money or attention.

[@ConditionOfMan]

I have fond memories of playing the Marathon demo over and over again on my Macintosh Performa 460 with it's blistering 33 MHz processor and a whopping 4 MB of RAM. I had to have been 11-12. Looking forward to this iteration.

[@rootballer]

I too played the original Marathon repeatedly. It was the only game I had for my 20 Mhz Macintosh Centris 610 (also 4MB). I'm baffled why Macintosh just gave their gaming leadership position to Windows.

[@stevenlarson3316]

I was a Mac gamer too. I was kind of disappointed when Bungie was bought by Microsoft and they started making everything for Xbox. I played Marathon Durandal and Infinity a lot. I played Myth too. Eventually I got a PC so I could play Starcraft. But I never got into Halo.

[@ludvig7473]

Based on how Bungie is doing Destiny 2 right now, Im not gonna play Marathon. That greedy studio will not get any more money from me

[@hexamirofficial]

The visuals of Marathon's trailers had me frantically searching for more info on the game but when I found out it's just going to be a scifi Tarkov, I won't deny that I was immensely disappointed, especially since it's coming from one of my favourite studios. You're right, Bungie is known for their innovation in the past, but this feels like a sidestep in the industry, not a step forward. Nevertheless, great video. I learned some new things thanks to your thorough research in this video. Cheers!

[@lisspryciarz]

okay dude its my first time on this channel but if im gonna say one thing its that you mastered the sound and music choice for the video

[@AfroGaz71]

I'm not familiar to this channel so maybe it's just his narrative style, but this almost comes across like a paid advertisment.

[@nuxxdk]

I spent many hours of my youth making maps in Marathon Infinity… not really to play… I just loved the atmosphere and architecture I could produce… Anvil and Forge were groundbreaking in their own way…

[@StewTubeGaming]

Not sure I am convinced a PvPvE extraction shooter will be too great, however this video is great - and Marathon mostly got my attention for using Justice for the music in their trailer.

[@twobee-1654]

I love how bungie basically makes Destiny 2 players fund this game. That's why I will always hate on it.

[@switch2324]

I remember getting this invested in destiny before the game came out. Learnt my lesson the hard way that bugie is clearly more interested in ripping people off than making good games. Remember reading an article about how the original story of destiny was ruined due to decisions to split the original game out into dlc. A lot of the original staff that had been with bungie for years ended up leaving as the studio prioritised money over narrative. I know a lot of people like the game. I did for a time, but I believe if the story was never messed with it could of been a gaming revolution and we missed this due to corporate greed.

[@DoctorSess]

Sadly this has become the industry standard.

[@richardbeng8461]

3:03 keyboard: oh you thought we was cool after that

[@dignusdingus3709]

I just really wish it had a singleplayer story on top of the extraction shooter as its multiplayer.

[@didi-v1q]

if it does well they might do a singleplayer but thats a huge IF bungies track record hasnt been the best lately especially with the pvp . and now theyre focusing on making a multiplayer pvpve game but if they succeed more big game studios will likely follow .

[@Tortuex_]

amazing video ! :D

[@blackcountry6660]

Kudos to you for beeing so informed about Bungie and the M trilogy. I was in my mid 30, when I played the M trilogie on my Mac laptop with the "ball". Yes, stil today I remember M as an involving game with spiritual depth. And I was happy to find these assets in the Halo games again and again.

[@IronLord7717]

A video that isn’t just “old Bungie good new Bungie bad?” I like it

[@VoxelShow]

So, what's that "thing" that drives you?

[@Sir_Fart_The_First]

A car. I use it to drive around

[@CyberLou]

My Creativity, all my actions in my free time strive to be better creatively. If my Ideas, weather designs or stories can't standout from the others with my own style. Then that is a probelm that needs to be solved. I strive to improve my own style as a creative, without it I am nothing.

[@animonarch3858]

I want to see where games,anime,books,movies just any medium can go in my life time

[@josephzemanek3953]

Awesome worldbuilding, I have been creating a science fantasy world with deep lore for the past 4 and a half years now, and now I'm entering college this fall. I plan to get a job in the games industry, as I eventually want to bring my world to life as a multiplayer RPG.

[@thefakebriskeh]

your point on bungie not being able to let go of marathon doesnt make any sense if the studio that created marathon havent been at bungie for years. id go as far to say that they arent really pressured to not fail other then the usual things that accompany failure

[@Junior5anchez]

what i have learned in my 20 years of gaming specially recently is to never hype a game

[@Ratich]

I don't think the game will be bad. The problem with it is that it's an obvious trend chaser that may struggle with finding an audience. It's also quite a few years too late for the trend now the player base are consolidated to Hunt showdown and Tarkov. The Battle Royale crowd is also consolidated into CoD, Apex and Fortnite. Personally I've grown tired of Multiplayer shooters and wish to return to more linear story driven games.

[@aestheticsock8772]

I think you overestimate how saturated the extraction shooter market is currently and underestimate how much a big developer like Bungie wading into the scene can make a genre/subgenre 10x as big as it was previously. The always-online PVE FPS genre had games + players in it before Destiny, but nowhere near as many as it's had since Destiny's launch brought it to the front page of every gaming platform's storefronts + news articles. Marathon will be many people's, including mine, first experience with the extraction shooter genre. (well, almost first - I gave Hunt and Tarkov 5 hours each but their gritty realism didn't appeal to me). I don't even play Destiny, but something about Marathon's design and development as a Team Fortress 2, Apex, and unfortunately mainly Overwatch 2 player that is looking to jump ship is doing it for me. If there's the right combination of style and gameplay I could see myself and many others being hooked in a way Hunt and Tarkov never did for me - and millions more that won't have heard of the extraction shooter genre at all to be brought into the fold.

[@maximusdarja]

IIRC Halo is the sequel to Marathon. There are so many straight up references to Marathon in Halo, that as a chronic player of Marathon I instantly knew the moment I laid eyes on Halo. One of the funnier quirks of the game Marathon was that the physics engine turned the amount of damage a player took into velocity, and would "spin down" that force against any object the "corpse" encountered, so you could catch someone just right and stick them to the ceiling for 30 seconds or so. Ahhh, memories.

[@ShrikeGFX]

The Bungie that made Halo is quite a different Bungie which made a grind MMO Shooter

[@adamgroszkiewicz814]

Yep. Just like how the Blizzard of today isn't the Blizzard that put out Warcraft Orcs vs Humans. Or Diablo 1 & 2. etc. Most of the teams that built the OG's have moved on years ago.

[@Milktube]

Everything you described just makes the game sound more and more like garbage.

[@timewaster504]

For me that game I played that really hooked me was Destiny 1. I joined late in its life cycle, and it pulled me so far into the franchise I am only now really looking to play other games consistently

[@DoragonNero]

1 billion micro transactions incoming. That's what they build on the gaming world.

[@henrymoran9078]

I see where you’re coming from but I won’t be playing at launch due to what bungie has done to destiny 2 in order to work on marathon.

[@kojimayoshiyuki2728]

Small correction I dont WASD was not adopted until mouse controls became a thing, originally everything used the arrow keys, it was moved to wasd so that youre left hand could focus on the keyboard and the right hand could focus on the mouse

[@jman5258]

very low expectations for this game. It's more likely going to be a season pass micro transaction ridden hell scape. Gone are the days halo reach

[@dnjdsolarus]

fax

[@kirksknight]

Wow your intro made me more interested in this game than the entire showcase and any trailer I’ve seen lol

[@MrJerseyCobra]

That genuinely brought a tear to my eye. Amazing work! I feel this way about Resident Evil 4 and how it made the over-the-shoulder third person camera a staple. For example, Gears of War and Dead Space.

[@smolltaco5667]

All i can say is that the designs are so cool

[@gren1977]

Bungie and Halo as a studio and as a game series hasn't really been my flavor, despite being an FPS fan, but I like your pov (and the mouse / trigger angle was a surprise for me). Liked and subscribed! Hope the channel grows :D

[@cassidy6678]

Also the reason why Marathon isn't more widely known and if it is it's known as the source of many Easter eggs in Halo is because they were Mac only games.

[@ninjaiceflame]

Let's hope that pressure makes a diamond! I'm looking forward to see what they are cooking up 😃😃

[@-user_redacted-]

I still find it insane that that fps games exited when controllers gained triggers, and they somehow weren't the cause of that evolution, or even a thought to do with it.

[@Diegomir7]

bungo shill

[@mapleownage27]

"it's out by a studio that has a proven track record of innovating in every single game they have ever produced....." is this a quote from 2008, where the hell have you been

[@lisbonmapping8425]

Who let this guy cook?

[@leonel1982]

Really would have had a single player Marathon, at the very least a modern remake

[@brugbo613]

Tl;dr: this game is made by Bungie. Bungie good. Saved you ten minutes

[@42Lailoken]

you forgot: and revives a 30 year old IP with a cult following

[@simonoregan4744]

This is Bungie. Be prepared to have your wallet emptied. What they did to Destiny is criminal

[@mohebbi71]

ugh Marathon was already top heavy with lore, and it's a big deal because it came out on the Mac at a time when most other folks were playing on consoles, arcade or smaller computers like the Amiga or Atari ST. New Marathon just feels like like all the reasons why I don't play Destiny games anymore. This obsession with team based loot shooting is the only real throughline for Bungie. Love the art direction, shame it's just another variant of more of the same.

[@DownUnderTechReview]

Lol, this guy attributes modern day control system to Halo/Bungie but they just copied Timesplitters which came out more than a year before Halo did.

[@novemberrain8667]

Likely just another triple A nostalgia cash grab that's riddled with microtransactions, terrible progression systems, & cringey dialogue.

[@tom.2900]

Press X to doubt.

[@MegaJackolope]

@7:10 Jesus, I wasn't expecting to get so emotional with this section of the video. I've been playing a lot of Infinite with friends, as the last of our circle got a PC and we are no longer tethered to PS5. As we were having an absolute blast with the renewed current state of the game, the same friend who had been waiting so long to play halo since Reach corrected a comment I made. As I exclaimed, "It feels like Halo 3 again, they're back. Still one of the all time greatest shooters," and I alluded to call of duty being up there. He instantly reminded me "Nah, Halo's the fucking GOAT". I've been pouring my soul into Tarkov lately and god damn if changing games midsession to Halo just doesn't feel like going outside on a beautiful day after you've been inside a musty office with halogen bulb lighting for 8 hours. So many memories around my life, good or bad, I can remember the games' involvement. Saw combat evolved at my cousins' really young and eventually played it during a vacation years later to disneyworld in a rental house where I stayed up super late every single night to eventually beat the last mission on the final night of the trip. My grandpa, knowing after a few heart surgeries he didn't have long to go, took out credit cards he never intended to pay off and funded me and my mom's life when I was in grade school for a few years, vacation and current furnace in her house included. Miss you grandpa.

[@backpackgg]

Great quality video man, you got a new sub 👌

[@luckysevenow1872]

Not interested in the slightest. This is like if Valve made a Half-Life Battle Royale game instead of a proper Half-Life 3. Make it a new IP and problem solved, but this should _not_ be a Marathon game.

[@TheShftyOne]

My thoughts on the subject matter aside, Im pleased the algorithm has presented me with another small KZbinr whos totally gonna blow up. Quality video dude.

[@chrisc3825]

wonder video man. you have the passion to be a gaming historian, which is legitimately a wonderful career path right now. looking forward to trying this out.

[@Daimo83]

Alien Resurrection on ps1 was the first implementation of modern shooter controls, not Halo.

[@afrosty91]

Played this when I was kid on my old PowerPC. Use to Lan battle with my brother in the house. They're going back to where it all started!

[@irellevance6925]

Your storytelling was so compelling, great video!

[@jakub4981]

A really good video. I have just discovered your channel yesterday and I really like your style: witty, engaging & emotional. A great video essay, can't wait to discover more of your videos :D.

[@Snakecggg]

But it's not Marathon, I played OG Marathon and this is very much not it, not the same feel or anything or the sort.

[@Enochulator]

Marathon was not the first fps that allowed mouse control. Fake news, Bungie fanboy.

[@brandons9138]

I thought the same thing. If it wasn't the first then the internet is hiding the real truth.

[@Enochulator]

@@brandons9138 I mean, I dunno what the first was, definitively, but I know it wasn’t Marathon. Wolfenstein 3D had mouse support.

[@blorbo1359]

I think Bungie would appreciate someone writing something this flowery about them in 2023. Listen, Halo was easily one of the most important media franchises I have ever engaged with. I have played it for nearly 19 years now, and I probably will keep playing it in the future. Destiny was a huge disappointment and by the time Destiny 2 came around I realized those weren't going to be the kinds of games I could get into. I realize that Destiny 2 has many dedicated fans and apparently for the grinder shooter that it is, it's pretty successful. However, I do not think it is fair to say that Bungie innovated on every game they have made or are expected to do well bringing back an old franchise just by the merit of their previous work. Halo's greatest attributes was its aesthetic in single player and its flexibility in multiplayer; being helped extensively by the timing of Xbox Live. Hell, I would even argue the initial excitement for Destiny was even brought on by aesthetics rather than the game itself. You could maybe make a case that the regenerative health (shields) and sprawling levels were something innovative for console shooters at the time, but they weren't new and over the course of the franchise they only adopted mechanics from other successful shooters rather than inventing new ones. (Vehicle hijacking maybe?) They were good at making solid shooters and unfortunately they have lost a great deal of the talent which brought them their previous breakout success and exist in a more competitive market with tighter deadlines and financial expectations for successful triple-a games. I think being owned by Sony will make their chances a lot greater at making something interesting here and they will probably be less controlling than Activision was. I will be pleasantly surprised if this is a great game. I will expect something good since they are normally pretty dependable on delivering quality, if derivative, gameplay. They should consider hiring someone like you for marketing though, I have never seen someone make them sound so influential just for the Marathon controls.

[@josephiglesias2986]

Bungie needs this guy on their marketing team

[@NotFromConcentrate]

WASD wasn't used really until Half Life which made it an industry standard. I remember one professional review for Half Life saying that "you'll want to change the controls, they aren't like you like them." I remember playing Marathon with the arrow keys, like most other shooters at the time. I know, I know, we were cavemen. xD

[@kingterry6045]

I think when the original Quake launched they advised me to use AXSD which I used as default for nearly 8 years before switching to wasd.

[@MrCalhoun556]

This guy should work together with Tom Scott. Their combined enthusiasm could convince entire crowd to dumb stuff.

[@musicbysazid]

I love your storytelling, you earned a sub.

[@STEEFOH]

Dudes putting way too much faith in Bungie. Too much hair dye over there.

[@Sharpsight556]

Aren't you afraid that blade will mistake you for a vampire with those fangs?

[@misterbeane]

As far as I can remember, Goldeneye 64 was the first game to map FPS shooting to the Z trigger, WELL before Halo’s time.

[@Cyberfoxxy]

Ugh. Another live service extraction shooter. Count me out.

[@faawks]

I was so excited when I heard about the revival of the Marathon IP, boy did it hurt when my bubble was burst at the news of it being another extraction shooter, literally just a BR with extra steps.

[@DerekHardwick]

Marathon was just such a great game that a lot of PC gamers had never heard of (it was one of the few FPSers for the Mac). It had a wonderful and deep story, great aesthetic, really good network gameplay over very old school cheap networking tech, and it was absolutely fantastic to see some of the lore taken forward into Halo.

[@simonak9699]

Content creators building up this level of hype around a game for which we know next to nothing, except from a cinematic announcement trailer, in 2023, are candid to say the least.

[@IsaacPurpleguy]

I had no idea this game was a thing and now I'm fully invested. Can't wait for release!