314. Atlantis: The Legend

[@carloszarate2471]

Appreciate your podcasts so much!!!

[@charlesfrith]

Top Dollar conversation. great stuff

[@famebrightstudio451]

I don't know where I read it (or maybe I'm threading a bunch of shit together), but my favourite theory of Atlantis is that it is an ancestral memory of Doggerland, which was washed away by the tides, and could have also been responsible for various flood myths.

[@CL-we8tn]

We debated it once in class, however instead of doggerland we argued that it was passed down as oral history among the peoples around the black sea, which started filling quite recently, anyone living there would gradually have kept moving up against the growing sea. But this is years ago, and with notes 🤣, i cannot remember the particulars like when about the sea started filling.

[@michaelbedford8017]

Graham Hancock, the P.T. Barnum of Archaeology. A canny Brit who eventually realised that the USA was the natural market for his wares and became a millionaire.

[@giespouwen8091]

I really think Graham hancock believes his own narrative and doesn't want to fool anyone.

[@sazajac77z]

There has been a long battle between the gradualists and cataclysmicists. Didn't start with him. Read up on the Velikovsky affair. Or "punctuated equilibrium" debate. Science quite often circles the wagons. "Trust the Science"? Fuk dat.

[@gomey70]

@@sazajac77z Circling the wagons = consensus. Without science we're back to fairy-tales and myths.

[@MusicEnjoyerSLS]

If Hancock were a grifter he wouldn't bother to debate and defend his position, since he clearly doesn't need to to maintain popularity. He does so because he thinks he's right. The proper conclusion to draw here is not that Hancock is a fraud but that scientists are fragile and egocentric megalomaniacs who are completely intolerant of heterodox ideas, going so far as to slander the people who hold them as white supremacists.

[@Terinije]

Not going to lie, when I read the Republic in college, it took me forty pages or so before I realized "oh, he's not being sarcastic and setting up a gotcha turnaround?" and had to restart the book. A bunch of snobbish dickery.

[@sohara....]

An extraordinary book. I have yet to read Popper's critique of Plato, as an authoritarian. The idea of separating people into classes or groups according to ability (as decided by some arbiter group) is in novel & film *Divergent*

[@michaelbedford8017]

'Philosopher Kings'. A great name for a brand of cigarettes.

[@ripricsaw]

There’s a Greek brand of Cigarettes called George Karelias and Sons, they sell superkings that come with an Aristotle quote on the inside of the box, only just realised the connection!

[@michaelbedford8017]

@@ripricsaw Hi Kafka (or may I call you Franz?), there was a time when many cigarettes had the word 'Kings' after the brandname to indicate they were 'kingsize'. This mundane witicism seems to have gone over the heads of everyone but your goodself. Perhaps I should restrict my dad-jokes to 'hoi poloi' in future.

[@sohara....]

... hoi polloi ... 😅

[@launiesoult3248]

What's the name of a pale ale too

[@richcole157]

Guys I think Hancock says there was meteorite impact and resulting floods and climate change beyond reasonable doubt and cites scientific papers I haven’t read. He then describes myths and speculates on what they might represent.

[@kaloarepo288]

Could the legend have been sourced from Phoenician and Carthaginian explorations and colonization in the western Mediterranean and indeed in north west Africa - the Carthaginians had territories on the Atlantic in south western Spain and indeed in Morocco where the Atlas mountains are and there are famous reports of Carthaginian explorers even circumnavigating Africa. Plato himself spent some time in Sicily an island contested between Greeks and Phoenicians.Carthage itself was a major sea power and even had a circular artificial port where its fleet was docked.

[@annielloyd8177]

Love these podcasts but a little less snarking at Mr. Hancock would make it more sympathetic.

[@renep.1435]

There is a weirdness and a distinctiveness about Plato's story that, for many people including myself, makes it very hard to believe that he just made it up.

[@ripricsaw]

There’s a weirdness and distinctiveness to Harry Potter, do you find it hard to believe that JK Rowing made that up too?

[@renep.1435]

@@ripricsaw Actually the weirdness and distinctiveness of Harry Potter is explained by the presence of archetypes and mythical patterns that Rowling is drawing on. So also in the case of Harry Potter, this proves that there is more to the story than just the desire to create a political allegory.

[@ripricsaw]

@@renep.1435 You've just proved my point there. The weirdness and distrinctiveness of the story of Atlantis is explained by the presence of archetypes and 'mythical patterns', or, real world examples such as the Spartans. Atlantis is simply a story :)

[@francislankester805]

Hapgood's Maps of the ancient sea kings promoted the Piri Reis map showing Antarctica ice free and so a candidate for Atlantis. It even appears in Gunter Lulling's work on the Quran.

[@dannydore8038]

Randall Carlson has the true story of Atlantis

[@francislankester805]

Luce The End of Atlantis is well worth a read as he basically says that Plato made it up as a reproof to Athens.

[@natecanavanar4696]

Atlantis is a fun enough idea in a story, but I don't think it should be taken seriously or literally. Sadly, not everyone sees it like that. As for GH not being entirely wrong, isn't it suspected to be Crete? Maybe Crete did have a better grade of bronze or pottery, but I can't imagine there's *that* much to it. Next ep will be an interesting listen.

[@FartCoffin]

Why not take Plato at his word? There isn’t enough evidence to dismiss his claim

[@michaelbedford8017]

​@@FartCoffin 'Why not take Plato at his word'. If, as many believe, Plato's Atlantis is a parable, a work of fiction, then to regard it as fact is decidedly NOT 'taking Plato at his word'. It would be like believing Lord of the Rings. The only reason why people don't as yet is because it was created too recently to be plausible. Mind you, there are people who believe The Holocaust to be fiction, so there's no accounting for some people's either stupidity or wickedness.

[@Dude0000]

Santorini is often given as a possibility for obvious reasons.

[@henkvandergaast3948]

God that intro synopsis was waffle

[@metacomet101]

An other podcast funded by “big dirt”

[@sohara....]

What does this mean?

[@RainFall2112]

@@sohara.... JOKES

[@CL-we8tn]

I think Atlantis did exist.

[@adrianseanheidmann4559]

why?

[@maggiesimmons1084]

These 2 are misrepresenting the actual arguments and assertions of Mr. Graham Hancock. Thus I downvote, and leave before the end of this dishonest vid

[@eughrologh]

Hancock is a fantasist.

[@adrianseanheidmann4559]

How can you "misrepresent" the actual arguments?

[@TheMatthew9201]

More modern historians have found evidence that Atlantis might’ve been proof of an utopian African kingdom, likely around North west Africa

[@tomcrawford6360]

Well they haven't

[@ripricsaw]

@@tomcrawford6360 haha

[@adrianseanheidmann4559]

öööh. Nope. More Afro-Centrist bullshit, simple.

[@kaloarepo288]

Evidence that a mountain slid into the Atlantic ocean in the Canary Islands area - underwater beaches are detectable.

[@notsomeanmark]

Hancock isnt a historian. Love his premise though.

[@chrisbromley673]

Historian is defined as a person whos studies and writes about history (in several versions of a "dictionary") i wonder why you dont think Hancock qualifies, what else can he do to attain credit for his work in the field of history... Maybe its a lack of a history PhD, like all those PhD egyptologists who think civilisation is only as old as the pyramids...