32-Bit Floating Point Recording | Don't Set, Just Forget!

[@UncleBenjs]

GOOD STUFF! REALLY ENJOYED THIS ONE. SHOUTING MY COMMENT LOUD DUE TO THE NOISE FLOOR THAT MY NEIGHBOURS 210DB VACUUM IS CURRENTLY CREATING

[@chickenlickin3820]

OMG TELL THEM TO STFU!!

[@LongshanMusic]

SORRY, I SPILLED MY HAGGIS.

[@PresentDayProduction]

HAVE THEY STOPPED YET?

[@simontassano5992]

@@PresentDayProduction Noise floor now converted to clean floor (after all those messy bits were bagged...;-)

[@UncleBenjs]

@@PresentDayProduction Yes they have [said in whisper because it is 2:40am]

[@PeterJaquesMusic]

I’m a trumpeter, and my dog is therefore a trumpeter’s dog. He comes and sleeps in my studio when i practice. Yet at the very end of this video, during the trumpet interlude, he woke up, alarmed, and howled. You’ve got some impressive skills, congrats! ;)

[@michiellombaers3198]

Only a few problems: There are no mic pre-amps that get even close to 144dB dynamic range. So the noise floor of the pre-amp (or the active electronics in an condensor mic), seldom better than -128dB, will be noticable before you're reaching the real limits of the 24 bits. And then there are the physics of audio in free air. The maximum dynamic of free air audio is (more or less) 196dB. That's the point when the drop in air pressure gets to the point of vacuum. Anything above that will be a shock wave, not a resonance. The real value of 32 bit floating point to me is when you're manipulating and mixing the sound. It means that it's virtually impossible to saturate the mixing busses ... never mind how many channels you sum or how far you boost a certain frequency.

[@DiogoSarcinelli]

I don't think you would even need a pre-amp to record at 32 bit (gain-wise)

[@michiellombaers3198]

@@DiogoSarcinelli There are always pre-amps or op-amps in the path. Even if it was just before the AD converter.

[@silverlightphotoco]

I don't think it's a "PROBLEM" that 32-bit float has more than enough dynamic range capability than microphones do, is it?

[@michiellombaers3198]

@@silverlightphotoco I think that 32-bit float has excellent use in mixing and sound treatment but it's pretty useless overkill in the recording stage or at the final mix-down.

[@michiellombaers3198]

@Wayne Brown Maybe I've got an overly traditional approach (being an old hand) but proper gain staging is imho always a good idea. the preamp itself has to be set correctly in order to minimise the self noise it produces.

[@trapbeatproducer]

You are the only person who has explained the 32-bit float for audio in a way that can be easily understood. Thank you for this video; I'll check out a couple more from your channel after this one.

[@helmanfrow]

3:19 Forgive me; if there's noise noise in the quiet part of a 24-bit-fixed recording and not in the 32-bit-float it has nothing to do with the recording format per se. It's most likely because of either: a) mismatched gain settings or b) using preamps with vastly different noise characteristics at equivalent gain settings. The limiting factor is the device in your chain with the LOWEST dynamic range, not the highest. 1500db DR of a 32-bit-float file is irrelevant if your mic and preamp can deliver 'only' 130dB. If your signal is in the noise floor of either your environment or your analog signal chain then no amount of extended dynamic range above or below zero will clean it up. Perhaps the Sound Devices recorder splits the incoming singal across two or more preamps, each operating at a different gain range. If this is the case then you might realize more usable dynamic range, but in what scenarios and how often are the benefits realized? Look, by all means go out and buy a 32-bit recorder for the 0.1% chance you'll make use of its capabilities. But don't fool yourself into thinking that this is what makes or breaks a recording. Know that 99.9% of your recording needs can be served by the meager 144dB available through 24-bit fixed and a judiciously-set preamp gain.

[@jcnash02]

The point of it is to take away the losses of clipping that one or two words, not to eliminate properly recording something. The video was showing what’s possible, not how it should be done.

[@WillyJunior]

I was also thinking that. The 32-bit recorder clearly has quieter preamps.

[@helmanfrow]

@Wayne Brown I grant that 32-bit-float has its place. My contention with the video was the implication that floating-point math magically eliminates low-level noise when boosting a quiet signal while fixed-point math retains the noise. This is plainly absurd.

[@WillyJunior]

@Wayne Brown He isn't talking about you. He's talking about the content of the video.

[@WillyJunior]

@Wayne Brown You're an odd boy.

[@gwsound]

There is not really hardware DA converters that can handle electrically wise more than 20 bits because the electrical voltage difference is to small for the last 4 bits of the 24 bit. The reason we went to 24 bits is only because computers work with x times 8. So inside the box you can play around with 24 bit values or 32 or 64. But at the moment the bits has to go back into real audio voltage everything above 20 bits is almost impossible to create very accurate.

[@Chalisque]

That was my thought until I read in someone else's comment something that I had overlooked. A single ADC can't do more than 24 bits, but splitting the input signal between two ADCs, one for louder signals, and one for quieter ones, and then combining the results so that if the signal clips one ADC, the values from the other can be used.

[@Chalisque]

Then noticed you were talking about DA converters, not AD converters.

[@silverlightphotoco]

@@Chalisque I think your point is still helpful, as there are many saying that 32-bit float isn't helpful for RECORDING, which of course is where the DUAL A/D converters really help (Analog to Digital converters, for those wondering what A/D means, etc.)

[@Gongtopia]

This is the best explanation of 32bit I've seen. Thanks!

[@PresentDayProduction]

Thanks for watching!

[@ORACLEBALL]

Fl studio and ableton run 32 bit files as well

[@mickloh]

Reaper also supports 32-bit FP files. 32-bit is amazing for recording source audio for sound design, bumblebees or tanks my Zoom F6 has my back without me having to worry about gain. :)

[@scissorkicks]

When I was still teaching, students would often ask why I didn't use 32bit float in studio sessions. I'd always tell them I only use 32bit float for crucial recordings of live performances or interviews where there's no possibility of a retake. As some other commenters have noted, there are electrical / physics factors which may impact how effective our equipment is at reproducing huge amounts of dynamic range. For me, 32 is just a slight safety net in "one off" recording moments.

[@nj1255]

Reaper can also import and record in 32-bit and 64-bit FP. I think the files has to be in .wav format, but it shouldn't matter as you should be able to use .wav files in Reaper even if you are using a Mac.

[@silverlightphotoco]

Just subscribed! I'm a "Fake Filmmaker" and after watching several videos from your channel this week, and not subscribing, I watched this one; All I have to say is THANK YOU, THANK YOU for saying something that makes sense about 32-bit float...I got beat up by a whole bunch of audio professionals (in a Facebook group) after saying how excited I am about 32-bit float (although about half of them agreed with me about it being a "game changer" for "location" recording.)

[@JohnPaulMusicUK]

Awesome video and brilliantly explained. This is why new loop pedals are coming out with 32-bit floating (Boss RC-600 for example). Fantastic as it means less degradation for overdubs and when recording and using as an audio interface, your doing to get great quality!

[@axilleas]

Personally I do 44.1/24 for recording (with modern plugins and internal super sampling 44.1 is enough and it saves a resampling round), 32bit FP If I am exporting stems or a final mix to be sent to someone else for mastering. Final renders are always 44.1/16bit for me (I still do CDs, people seem to be more willing to pay up for something they can hold, going by the fact that most people listen to my stuff on KZbin or pirating them as low quality mp3s via some sort of downloader). Beautiful explanation as always!!! P.S.: Still waiting for the Flopcat ASMR album. P.S. 2: Reaper does 32bit FP, too!

[@jimshomestudio]

FL Studio shows 32bit float as its best setting so I used that for years. Always trying to get a loud output, while checking that against Loudness Penalty to make sure I fit here on YT. I finally added a SSL Comp to the mix Buss, for volume reduction, and started pushing up the mix channels into it. Was shocked to see my files recorded at or above clip would still pull down as you had shown, the real benefit to 32 bit float shows up in that respect. But of course, I’m going to extremes as I learn where I need to be. Too hot into the SSL, which will pull it down to fit YT. I used to think I needed limiters to keep the recorded files from clipping, actually that info is still there in the WAV file because of 32 bit float. This information is hard to find, but you’ve explained it nicely. Thank you.

[@andrewgonoudemusician]

thank you. great explaination. and a cute cat. : )

[@jonathansieswerda6292]

I’m a bit confused, don’t the preamps have way way more impact on the noise flore then the converters?

[@teashea1]

Very realistic and intelligent presentation - quite well done.

[@Espresso101]

What an amazing explanation and demonstration. I finally feel I understand the differences and their benefits, thanks to you guys. What a great contribution to the audio community. May Santa leave a garbage bag full of money under your tree next Christmas.

[@PresentDayProduction]

Thank you so much! Glad to help :)

[@peterbigblock]

I played trumpet in high school and I’m pretty sure I played that song. Regardless of the sheer music, I’m fact. Great explanation of bit depth, thank you.

[@gbwalther3198]

Thanks for the great demo lecture on 32 bit float. Anxious to hear & see your review on the Mix Pre 6ii recorder in the near future.

[@PresentDayProduction]

Thank you! Review coming really soon :)

[@juan2luna]

Thank you sooo much for your clear explanations about post processing. Everybody says that "you can fix it in post" but nobody shows how !!! You didn't either BUT you mentioned the DAWs that can handle it 😍 I'm wondering if the list has expanded one year after your video ?!

[@PresentDayProduction]

Thank you! The list of supported DAWs has definitely grown. Logic is one of them now... finally!

[@juan2luna]

@@PresentDayProduction Yes, actually I've started looking at DaVinci Resolve as you mentioned it. I think it could work for just audio editing and it's free. Any experience to share on DaVinci Resolve for audio?

[@peterbrandt7911]

Hey James, thanks for the vast amount of time, to pull down my headphones, before shouting into my ears :D. I couldn't hear the rest of the video, but I'm sure it was great. Kidding, of course. Cubase btw, asks the same question. While the default export setting is 32bit in Cubase 11 pro, the recording and import limit seems to be 24bit. Internally Cubase can even work at 64bit float. Maybe a perfomance issue, when dealing with countless tracks and plugins. Dunno.

[@stephendanieldrums]

It's also good for cranking your preamp to get some analog breakup, then just bring the level down after recorded.

[@CharlesTsaiE]

But 99% audio interface's AD converter is 24-bit, And whatever the 24 or 32 bit been used, the clipping occurred before the digital part(when the input signal voltage is too high to the AD circuit), and also the signal noise ratio can't be improved by it(SNR is input signal level minus the AD part self-noise level) I haven't read much information about 32bit AD, if i wrong please correct me. Moreover Akash Murthy made wonderful videos about fix&floating bit explanation, I'm not sponsored but they're great.

[@petefrasersoft]

And the miniumum theoretical thermal noise is -132dB and no one can get to that level (Neve used to get close). In order to convert it, you need a preamp which amplifies this thermal noise (from electronic components such as the resistors and transistors). The only advantage with floating point is that you can perform processing after the AD conversion without any problems with headroom/clipping.

[@Superdelphinus]

@@petefrasersoft that’s why I think it’s mainly useful for remote/ location recording or other scenarios where you might get unexpected volume fluctuations. For normal music making, 24bit is already more than you need really if you know how to set things up properly.

[@CharlesTsaiE]

@@petefrasersoft Yes, when the client is confused how to export mutiltrack/pre-master files, I would suggest just use 32bit to avoid any problems

[@titovalasques]

I’ll give you a like for the kitty, . . . . . . . . . Oh and the info was really good as well.

[@davidjohnson6965]

Great video James, certainly like the extra headroom my mixpre 3-2 allows!

[@PresentDayProduction]

The mixpre is so cool, can’t wait to review it!

[@Mr.Zen_73]

you guys are both informative and funny, well done!

[@PresentDayProduction]

Thank you so much :)

[@michaelpoisson320]

great vid! You missed Cubase Pro, it can record in 32-bit floating point, and actually supports 64-bit float as well of course not many plug-ins support that bit-depth yet

[@Mrlogic10]

Wow what a wellmade video. Easy to understand and with great examples!

[@PresentDayProduction]

Thank you!

[@mattstegner]

Auditon and Premiere both can work with files from disk that are 32bit float. Audition can work with 32 int and float. Both (as with any modern DAW/NLE) with use a 32bit float internal resolution for any mixing or audio manipulation. This allows you to, essentially, never clip the internal summing architecture of the software. You only need to truly worry about the the output gain when outputting to a file to disk or to the audio device (the meters in most DAWs show the integer value of the audio output in dBFS). Once you write a file to disk at 16 or 24 bit, or try to play back audio through a 16 or 24 bit DAC, you can easily clip. Essentially, exceed the available bits for 16 or 24 bit. One interesting thing that Audition, and to a lesser extent Premiere, does is to work with temporary files at 32 bit float resolution. For certain formats, on import, the files will be converted to 32 float in a temporary cache system. Any manipulation of the audio data will be stored in the 32 float temp file system, and only be rendered to disk on a save operation. This allows unlimited undo and unlimited gain manipulation until the audio is rendered to a file on disk as a last step. Additionally, Audition can record 32 float format to disk if the recording device supports it.

[@DJmallninja]

Teacher: So, what did you learn from this video? Me (an american who has been taught that 65db is the level of a vacuum cleaner): ...british vacuums must be loud and shitty

[@PresentDayProduction]

Can confirm, my hoover is louder than anything on the planet

[@bavarianmonkey8326]

Maybe that is because the UK has proper mains voltage instead of 120 V and therefore more power. They can suck more, which is not a bad thing in this context :-)

[@FLH3official]

Good video, thank you for the clear explanation about the 32b FloPping cat standard

[@PresentDayProduction]

32 flops per sample

[@squoblat]

32 flops per cat you say?

[@TAP7a]

32 bit sounds ideal for classical or very intimate settings - maximum dynamic range!

[@algarvemike]

Nice Vid. I’m on 48/24 bit and am very happy there. Very informative and well explained. Thank you. Stay safe n well. 👍

[@PresentDayProduction]

Cheers :)

[@BrettNoack]

Steinberg's latest offerings support 32 bit 'integer' hardware encoding (UR-C Series) and in software (Cubase - Nuendo) support up to 64 bit floating point precision.

[@perrykeshahwalker5321]

U guys are hilarious.

[@onemanband3579]

Thank you, I nearly understood some of that.

[@YLSQUID]

Reminds me of that time I was on the receiving end of a project that a composer who had zero clue of how to use 32bit float sent. The whole thing was a nightmare. Dude was mixing everything with KRK's backed to a wall with another concrete wall about 4.5 inches behind his back (all of that in a rectangular room, no idea why he used the width and not the length of the room), the room modes were so insane that he'd mix the sub basses at around - 36db so they'd sound good to him and had to put the vocals and snares over 0 so they'd cut through. That'd have been fine had he sent the 32 float session but he insisted on converting the project into 24bit stems before sending them because "He has this really amazing soundcard that made things sound much better when converted ( a Berhinger MDX), didn't want us to mess the mix and also...his wifi was too slow to send full-on 32 float sessions) he never checked his clip gains before converting so everything was either really quiet or clipping like a mf. Since the project was entirely made of 3 free vst synths, one kontakt drum, and one vocal take I suggested he had every track hitting around - 6 on average before convertion and we'd redo the balance over at my studio. Once I had tracks with the legal acceptable quality required to get started it took about 13 revisions for him to validate the mix because they didn't sound good on his "state-of-the-art system" while the director of the movie went with the very first mix because the revisions sounded more and more erratic. When all of it was done, he sent this huge email saying everything would have been fine had we used the 32 float mixdown in the movie. Had to explain none of the equipment in the whole production could or needed to work above 24 for our purpose. if this is a cautionary tale, I'm guessing the moral is : More bits isn't better if you have zero clue of what the extra bits are doing. Great explanation in your vid btw

[@PresentDayProduction]

Wow, sounds like a nightmare!😱 Yes, I think these videos should come with a disclaimer saying “don’t do this if you don’t know what you’re doing” 😂

[@michaeltablet8577]

Thank you for the information. This is excellent news for recording live bands. Rarely do they play at the volumes set in sound check. Usually by the time the first song is over there are clip indicators on all channels.

[@PresentDayProduction]

It’s an expensive thing to get into, but for sure, it’s a great thing!

[@timbeaton5045]

@@PresentDayProduction The Zoom F6 is around €560 Whereas the Sound Devices Mic Pre 6 is around twice the price. Both excellent, but yes, somewhat expensive. Note these are stereo(and up) recorders. If you want to record an interview, with a mono mic, then the Zoom F2 field recorder is great, as it's set and forget as far as gain setting is concerned, too. And tiny which makes for easy concealment if, say you are filming an interview. Not much else available in 32 bit float.

[@gooshie3]

The shouting made me spit out me brew. Cheers lads, entertaining as always.

[@djvidual8288]

Its really funny how you consistently get Flopcat fitting to the topics in your videos :D

[@PresentDayProduction]

He’s a natural actor!

[@UncleBenjs]

That's because Flopcat comes up with the video concepts and writes the scrips

[@ScottChesworth]

Flopcat hires, fires, and never perspires.

[@secretelitemusic]

Gabba Industrial Deathmetal can only be measured on the Richter Scale.

[@dgsoundCA]

Thank you so much guys, this video exceeds 32-Bit of PRO level!!

[@PresentDayProduction]

Thank you!

[@oggeeboggee]

I checked that MixPre-6 II specs. It has unprecedented AD conversion at -142dB (almost the whole range of 24bit audio)! Impressive! Ableton Live records in 32bit, but I always thought (and still think) that it is impossible to go beyond the converters dynamics. RME Fireface 800 has only -112dB and I guess difference between 24bit and 32bit audio recording won’t that spectacular as in your video. But I will test it...

[@Writtenmirror]

Instinctively I always did this but not I see why it's been such a lifesaver! 32 FTW

[@dplabn813]

What an interesting video and very informative. I must admit, the whispering bit gave me ASMR tingles. You should do an ASMR channel. Very good. 😂😊

[@BenC95]

Great Video! Unrelated question: Will there be a HEDD monitor review at any point? Cheers, Ben

[@PresentDayProduction]

Thanks, Ben! I’m not 100% sure at the moment, it all depends on whether I can get them to send me a pair :)

[@BenC95]

@@PresentDayProduction I could watch your monitor review vids all day so any at all you can do is amazing :) Amphion would be cool too heard so many mixed reviews about them

[@saysaylor7662]

There’s one military airport in my, otherwise quiet, area. Still, I might look suspicious there with any recorder, not to,mention a 32 bit one.

[@ThePlanarchist]

Interesting, I've been wondering about whether you actually ever could get to a state where you just forget the input gain with 32bit..... As well as there not being many DAWs that seem to support this for recording at the moment (I wasn't aware of that*), I wonder if there's really hardware that can safely/accurately cover this enormous range....though I see that little mic seemed to cope with Flopcat's 7,000,000dB purr so maybe that's been answered. Another excellent video, cheers. *Cubase seems to suggest it can import/record 32bit but suggests running in 64bit fp when doing so....so not sure.

[@timbeaton5045]

Reaper 64 appears to both import and export 32 BFF as does Nuendo, (i think!)

[@hireality]

Great video 👍 Looking forward to your upcoming SoundDevices MixPre-6 review. Please let us know if Steinberg Nuendo can import 32 bit floating in MacOS.

[@PresentDayProduction]

It looks like yes, but INBOUND ONLY. (Oddly) This list is super helpful: www.sounddevices.com/32-bit-float-applications/

[@Mac1Sound]

Love the video ( as I always do) BUT @03:56 when your shouting, you had perfectly good levels going into your mix pre6 ( it didn't blink orange or red once) so were you clipping the signal in post? for a proper test why didn't you saturate the circuit in the mix pre and clip the "F" out of it so people could really hear what it sounds like. Just asking .....

[@PresentDayProduction]

The MIC was clipping!

[@Mac1Sound]

@@PresentDayProduction wow really, I'm gonna have to test that with my 'clippy mics' . I tend to only use them for field recording to be honest. I've never stuck +120db through them yet... actually I have a motorbike to record, so I might for a giggle try them on the back of it. I would also agree with you on the mix pre range, they are fantastic recorders, I keep one as a backup at all times.

[@STNtontechnik]

Best audio-related channel!!! Always good quality information and in a super funny way.

[@PresentDayProduction]

Thanks Juan! :)

[@uptownphotography]

Super interesting video and topic. I'm ready for 32bit! But my DAW won't support it, so I'll record my rescue cat with 2 channels and and put a very transparent compressor on the higher gain channel is case my cat does a dog barking impersonation... Great job...as usual (and great info). Phil NYC Area

[@PresentDayProduction]

Cheers Phil!

[@samuelhof2192]

You‘re great guys😅😂💪🏻💪🏻…love your cat content made with serious intresting topics

[@LongshanMusic]

"This is the way." -James, to his mirror while brushing his teeth

[@PresentDayProduction]

What 😂

[@alberthjaltason8152]

Hey guys. Love the channel👍 I am a drummer of quite some years and have just in the last few years gotten the idea to start recording on my own. I've bought quite a few things to record in 32 bit. My thinking is that I can capture and use all the small details that have previously been left out with gain levels and compression etc. Is this thinking wrong? Thinking of course of ghost notes and the fiddly bits. Maybe the filddly bits are all meant for the jazzy parts?

[@ErixSamson]

thanks for this

[@thewatchmanstudios6257]

As I’ve got a Mix pre 10mk2, Im interested to hear your review/what you think

[@andesneko]

Btw, it doesn't have to be floating point. As long as it is 32 bit, integer or floating point will work mostly the same for most uses (integer technically being superior). Cubase is fully 32 bit compatible, btw.

[@PresentDayProduction]

Indeed! I only named a few suggestions, there’s a great list on Sound Devices website which is more extensive :)

[@timbeaton5045]

Logic has for many years used internal 32bit float, internally, and will export as such. Won't import them, though. Has been much requested! Adobe Premiere Pro, and Audition WILL import/export 32 bit float files, as will Reaper.

[@BlueJavaTN]

Cubase Pro supports 32bit integer recording and 64bit float processing.

[@allen394]

Great video (as per your normal standard) Well explained technical information plus Flop Cat and Marks trombone farting!

[@PresentDayProduction]

Cheers Allen!

[@simonbarth3181]

what do you even need preamps for in a decice like this?

[@chriscutress1702]

Will you be auditioning a Zoom F8n to compare it against your future review of the Sound Devices unit ?

[@PresentDayProduction]

I’d love to get my hands on one - so yes, if I can!

[@jangerhard4039]

Isn't the more interesting question: What dynamic range has the analog mic pre section of the 32BitFP unit? I remember that they have stacked ADCs which gives you more DNR, but has inferior specs regarding THD because of the two stages switching.

[@lascosascomosean]

Very useful info, once again! I have a couple of questions, though: 1- This might sound stupid but... can you record a 32-bit floating-point file with a 24bit ADC converter audio interface? When using an audio interface with built-in preamps, what are you really controlling with the "gain" knob? The analog signal gain (clipping chance 1), the gain feeding the converters (clipping chance 2) , or both at the same time in a 1 to 1 ratio (both clipping at 0dBs)? Anyway, I´m confused. Do you need a 32 bit ADC to achieve the "impossible to clip" dream when recording? Wouldn't the analog preamp clip anyway? How does it work in a field recorder that can record 32-bits?? infinite headroom analog preamps + 32-bit ADC? 2- I take the 32-bit floating option is also good for grouping/summing tracks into buses when mixing. Does that mean we can gain stage at the start of a mix session, and never worry about clipping in groups or master faders again? What about plugins? Do they need to also work at 32-bit floating to maintain the dynamic range of the signal that's passing through? 3- Are there any benefits in keeping everything at 32-bits until the last step of the mastering stage (dithering/noise shaping)? Just like editing a video with 4K video files: A 1080p export still looks better than when using 1080p files directly. I hope someone around here finds these questions useful. You're killing it in this channel!!! I would love to see a Dan Worrall - PDP crossover!

[@tasteapiana]

I was recording 32bit at 96k into Sonar (now Cakewalk) back in 2009, ummm, on a Windows system with a total of 4GB of ram and a HT chip. Of course, that meant, in my then unique situation, I could only record 8 tracks at a time before dropouts and other random glitches started. If I had a better system, today, I would never again bother with 24 anything ''in'', only 32. That would be a nice SSD and a 4Ghz+ 8 core with 32GB of ram and massive outboard A/D but I don't see that happening in the near future, so, whatever. I've dropped back to 24/48 for everything except for archival works that I can't foresee being worked with for several years to come (ie ideas that have hit brick walls, children's performances, family historical stuffs, etc). I will say, however, there is something really sweet about 32/96 - it just seems so smooth to listen back to, can't really quantify the quality but you KNOW when you switch from that down to 24/48 in a BIG way. All these folks who say ''There's no detectable audible difference above 24/48'' are liars, period. Everything about 32/96 sounds better than 24/48 but it's just too much of a resource hog to be worth it for most commercial and/or non-critical applications. If I were running a pro recording studio, nothing would be tracked at less than 32/96 because mixing with it is a dream. You can get away with a lot more bounces and sub mixes; things that at 24/48 start to feel rough around the 3rd time they've been sent through any kind of processing just keep on going and going and going while acquiring little to no artifacts that would otherwise be very obvious at 24/48 or below. I still double process things in a 24/48 mix but I really try my best to avoid EQing or including within any 3rd pass/layer anything that will get processed a 3rd time. I don't mind a bit of phase or even sample level ringing but bit level anomalies from multi-passed resampling can give you headaches that even a kernel engineer can't figure out how they got there, how to get rid of them or even how to mask them.

[@MrLarsDF]

Bravo🙏👍👍

[@gamma2816]

I'ma need that 512-Bit float for my cosmic quantum shifting drummer, average snare hit is at 9z+(600x572y)e/14-Db so 32 just isn't gonna cut it fam. xD

[@tharii314]

Isn't 16-bit PCM supposed to have a "sign" bit to dictate the polarity of the given pulse, and the rest of 15 digits to encode the magnitude or amplitude of that pulse?

[@stefos6431]

And the question is: Do you use a Zoom F8N Pro or some other recorder? Thank you What about microphone choices for interviews? Thank you And sound software? Thanks and Regards

[@federicomartino6081]

it s impossible ive discovered you just now. U are really the best and you re funny as fuck

[@almightytreegod]

Heard on the SOS podcast recently there was a zoom interface that would do 32bfp and that it had no gain controls… The thing I’m curious about is why then do you need a preamp to bring a mic to line level? Or is it just to clean up the signal? Also seeing some comments about ADCs here that make me wonder what the actual difference is in these converters. Maybe they just figured out how to make killer converters and needed a marketing buzzword that wasn’t really accurate to the science, like everything else in audio tech?

[@PresentDayProduction]

Relating to the first bit - on the MixPre6-II I was using, the gain controls do nothing when in 32-bit mode, they only function in 24-bit mode. Any gain levelling is done in post, just turn the volume up or down

[@almightytreegod]

@Wayne Brown that’s an intriguing concept that might give me several more questions. Lol

[@BlakeMlungisi]

Wait. Why weren't Pro Tools, Nuendo/Cubase listed amongst DAW that record and work with 32bit float?

[@PresentDayProduction]

It wasn’t a complete and comprehensive list, just some examples.

[@BlakeMlungisi]

@@PresentDayProduction Understood

[@The_Audio_Phoenix]

So when starting a new session in Pro Tools would it just be worth doing EVERYTHING in 32Bit float? It sounds like a pure win - win in terms of quality and dynamic headroom. Or will the performance cost be enough to make going above 24bit a problem? Being able to only have to focus on not clipping my pre-amps on the way in would avoid a huge amount of stress, especially when dealing with drums.

[@LondonSteveLee]

You seem to have missed Cubase off your list of 32bit float capable DAWs - actually it can capture and manipulate 64bit float too. Even Steinberg's humble UR22c interface captures 32 bit audio at 192kHz.

[@PresentDayProduction]

This was by no means an extensive list!

[@crosswick]

Great and funny video but a bit lacking on the other relevant dynamic ranges, as others have pointed out. I'm intruiged by how the two ADC signals get precisely overlayed in such a 32-bit recorder

[@moddquad8362]

There is 1 problem. There is no such thing as a 32 bit floating point ADC. One issue is the thermal noise floor, you could make a 32 bit codec but around 14 bits would just be noise. A very good 24 bit ADC has a 100dB signal to noise ratio. Cool it with liquid nitrogen for better performance, better yet put it on the cold side of James Webb. I guess you could put some sort of analog auto gain control on the front end, but that would need to run at above a 10mS cadence, not 48KHz. edit: You could try using companding with all its issues. Put an 8:1 dynamics compression on the input and 8:1 expansion on the output (or code equivalent), but I do not see a way around the second weakest link in an audio chain, the ADC.

[@Emcfree2084]

A bit surprising that Cubase or several other popular 32bit supporting DAWs weren’t mentioned in your list, especially when Cubase supports 64bit which wasn’t covered at all in this video. Maybe an updated video in the future could expand on this topic a little.

[@PresentDayProduction]

It wasn’t a comprehensive list, just some suggestions. A full list is available online at SoundDevices website

[@Emcfree2084]

@@PresentDayProduction maybe worth adding that to the video or to a future video then. It’s not me that needs that info, I was thinking more of other viewers who might take away the impression that only a handful of video editing applications do 32bit.

[@simonbarth3181]

This technology is so cool. But there is one thing that i dont understand at all. If this can record any level anyway, why do 32-bit float interface even need preamps? And would would the benefit be of boosting a signal recorded like this??

[@PresentDayProduction]

You still need to amplify the tiny signal coming out of a mic, condenser mics still need phantom, etc etc

[@simonbarth3181]

@@PresentDayProduction but whats the difference when the recorder can detect tiny singnals like you showed in the video? I mean why add something to the signal chain that adds noise? Or will the signal that is boosted by the preamp somehow be less noisey?

[@erinburke9711]

@@simonbarth3181 Because the converters don't operate in 32-bit floating point. The signals from 2 24-bit ADC's is stitched together to create a higher dynamic range signal, but still nowhere near the 1528 dB this video is claiming. 32-bit floating point is just the container format. It really has nothing to do with the hardware. The dual-ADC signal could easily be scaled to fit in a 24 or 32-bit fixed point container.

[@toddcamnyc]

My question is: if 32 bit float has 1500 dB of dynamic range, why not offer a different version of 32 bit float where instead of each division of loudness being twice as loud as the last one, maybe chop it into smaller divisions like 10% louder? You’d still have 150 dB of range, but with finer, more accurate sampling.

[@PresentDayProduction]

I don’t know, is the simple answer, but 16 million levels of amplitude change at 24-bit is usually more than anyone can hear, or more than most use cases would ever need! (USUALLY)

[@timbeaton5045]

All sampling formats, 44.1, 48, 96 etc. are "linear" in the sense that each successive bit is a power of two as a multiple. What you are suggesting is changing the "curve" of the response to the digitising process. Which with even 44.1 16bit is fine in audio terms. Changing the "linearity" would mean that the curve would have to be precisely defined, and subject to errors between differning implementations. There is NO need for this. There is no need for "finer more accurate sampling" most certainly at 32 bit depths. The accuracy will already far, far exceed the possible capabilities of ANY audio components when converted back to analogue audio. The reason that a DAW will internally use 32 bit float (Logic does, and I'm sure others do) is to make sure in the digital chain, that any complex manipulations reverb, delay, eq etc etc. have plenty of headroom, and low nose floor. 32 bit float, as explained means that you can record audio, in a Zoom F6 for example, and never worry about clipping, or nose floor. Same for internal processing within a DAW. About the only use for 32 bit float FILES, is that if you are sending a file off for mastering, you can export in 32 bit float, so that the mastering engineer never has to worry about the floor and ceiling of the file.

[@nekola203]

I'm looking to hook some (between 15-20!) wireless lav mics to a mixer and record all tracks on PC in 32-bit. what would be my bottleneck?

[@PresentDayProduction]

The mixer. You can still clip the mic capsules, mic preamps, and converters. So there’s really no point in recording at 32bit unless your front end can handle the extra dynamic range

[@caprimaniac01]

Well unless I'm mistaken, but Cubase also supports 32 bit integer as well as 64 bit floating. But I'm sticking with the 24bit/48kHz. More than enough for Metal Productions 😜. BTW, what Lewitt microphone is Marc blowing his trumpet into?

[@PresentDayProduction]

That’s a LEWITT 440 Pure! Also, that list I mentioned was not exhaustive, of course. Just some example softwares

[@carlosa.chacon985]

Just to be clear... 32 bit floating point recording works ONLY with 32 bit AD converters right? Recording with a 24 bit AD converter in a DAW configured at 32 bit FP will not accomplish this... am I right?

[@PresentDayProduction]

Correct. You need a 32-bit interface for the correct converter performance

[@carlosa.chacon985]

@@PresentDayProduction are there any 32 bit D/A converters? is it too crazy that idea?

[@chickenlickin3820]

can i hire out flopkat per hourly rate?

[@Simlevbass]

That seems cool and all, but... Isn't there information missing in this video about the recording process before A/D conversion? Like, how about A/D converter clipping? Electronics noise and clipping? I mean... If it was that easy and miraculous.... Why is there still gain pots around at all? 🤔

[@tobiverseofficial]

What Converters do you use for this btw? Most be 24bit and all have analog noise floor aswell 🤔

[@PresentDayProduction]

The mixpre has converters built in, it’s an interface itself

[@StarskiYall]

So when you set pro tools to 32 bit you still wouldn’t be able to utilize a 32 bit recorder?

[@LondonSteveLee]

@1:40 you should have added the extra 8 bits to the left - not the right!

[@PresentDayProduction]

Well spotted!

[@pawellok]

Most of these talkers only talk about the circumstances and repeat the marketing slurry, without telling a bit more consciously how such a 32-bit float recorder works. The matter is quite vague described in the Sound Devices patent US9654134B2 (although it can be done more easily - with only two sets of preamp-ADCs, like in Zoom F6 / F3 recorders, etc.). In a nutshell: you don't need preamplifiers with dynamics greater than 128dB at all. The trick is to use several sets of preamp & ADC, where each preamplifier has a different gain, and then quickly switch the streams to the loudest undistorted one in the digital domain, so the "regulator of the gain" is indeed a microprocessor. And the 32-bit float format makes it even easier to store such informations (as real digital data stream + gain).

[@mannymakesmusic891]

So, my ex speaks at around 140dB, since it's painful to listen to her for any amount of time.

[@patrickgarrity5529]

If u dither down to 24bit to mix the song can u still recover the distorted vocal from a 32bit file?

[@PresentDayProduction]

I would imagine not, as that extra headroom is no longer there

[@mathyoooo2]

What about the dynamic range of the preamp/adc ? For typical audio interfaces isn't the dynamic range of the interface lower than what even 24bit offers?

[@PresentDayProduction]

Yes. The Clarett 8PreX, for example, has a 118dB preamp dynamic range, which is well below the 144.5dB theoretical maximum.

[@mathyoooo2]

@@PresentDayProduction So then what is the benefit of recording in 32 bit on an interface like that? I don't really understand

[@PresentDayProduction]

Not all interfaces can record at 32-bit. You need a dedicated 32-bit recorder. I think the idea is more to open up the possibility for when there’s more use for it in the future. At the moment, it’s super useful when recording something like an interview, as I mentioned in the video. You can just hit “record” and never miss anything because it’s all recoverable in post-production.

[@PresentDayProduction]

Also on film sets it’s incredibly useful - recording explosions without a known gain constant

[@mathyoooo2]

@@PresentDayProduction ah makes sense, thanks for the response

[@JSSTUDIO-wr2jq]

👍

[@mannymakesmusic891]

I've always bounce my tracks out in 32 bit float knowing the first time I bounce it it's gonna be a brick wall.

[@the_newvoice]

Put a 16-bit mic too :)

[@bennie_d]

Your example is A1 3:40

[@the25thhr41]

pro tools also can use 32bit floating point

[@PresentDayProduction]

Indeed!

[@Bloodstone_DC]

Cubase can import 32bit files

[@PresentDayProduction]

The list I mentioned wasn’t every software - just some examples

[@Bloodstone_DC]

@@PresentDayProduction Not a critique,just an addition. 😘

[@PresentDayProduction]

Of course! There’s a great list on the Sound Devices website showing all the software and various connection types, quite interesting