351 Cleveland 4V Head 4 DOT Tech Talk

[@TheRCMaster]

Finally someone that actually has their hands on the correct information! Seeing is believing, thanks for taking the effort to educate everyone and making the awesome videos 👍

[@MrJustus152]

You wouldn't believe how many people try to tell you what they have, and it isn't what they say when you go look at what they are selling. You show exactly what to look for. Thank you for your knowledge.

[@jasonguy9917]

Our Aussie 4.9 litre Geelong heads are 2 Venturi Quench Chambers , with between 54 cc's and 57 cc's .all 4 Venturi big valve quench Chambers are slightly larger in capacity at 61 to 64 cc' s .all our Aussie 2 Venturi open Chambers are right on 75 cc's , obviously before cutting the heads face to and through the machining margin . Also one other thing to know bout my lovin' henries is that the first rebuild was always on Ford . This simply put meant that you should pull her down ,and then swap the rods , rings , and pistons from 1 2 3 and 4 cylinders and refit them to the nicely honed bores in cylinders 5 6 7 and 8 , with the notches on the crowns oriented reversed . Henry slugs have a fair bit of gudgeon pin offset . Located traditionally the piston dwells 2-3 ° after top dead centre as indicated by the crank throws 0° stroke index . If you then fit them reversed You now have your compression stroke ending a little early (at 12.5:1 comp finishing the compression stroke early by 2 or 3 ° to begin power stroke early Should yield a nice early start to the combustion whilst the piston has dwelled and is already on its descent phase , any late stroke pinging will no longer harm top rings , fire rings of head gaskets , upper conrod bearing shells , lower main bearings etc , all this previously destructive forces are now acting evenly across the crown with an increase in cylinder pressures from 900 psi to and through 1200 psi , nice boost in early torque production .

[@rescuedandrestoredgarage]

I just found this video, brother. The wife and I just brought home a 1971 mach 1 Mustang fastback. And I have been looking for information about the heads on the original date code 351C, so your video helped me out big time. You rock, and I will subscribe to your channel right now.

[@bigal878]

I love your tech videos and engine builds Clevo King. Great job, keep it up. Any chance you can do a similar video on 2V heads and your thoughts on them (including having them ported and fitted with 4V valves) for a budget build 351 Clevo build. Thanks

[@thatguyoverthere9634]

For those of us in the states. If there is a 4 but no dot, you can just about guarantee that they are CC heads and they are from 1970 with the part number D0AE. If your car is a 71 and it has a dot and the engine has not been taken apart or replaced, you need to check the vin. A 1971 M code car (5th character in the VIN is the engine code and is always a letter) is a standard 4v cleveland and not a boss or a cobrajet. That will have 4v cc heads, again, assuming it hasnt been taken apart and the heads replaced along with the part number D1AE under one of the intake runners. A Q code is a cobrajet and that will have the big dot open chamber heads. If its a boss head, 1st off congratulations, 2nd take the valve cover off, it will have rocker studs and pushrods guide plates with a ford part number on them.

[@hoedemakerbart]

Yeah i have a 4 with no dot in my 70 Mustang. Doae-j 9k10 engine code

[@rwcassel2970]

Both heads on my cleveland are 4V closed chamber heads with D1AE part number. They are identical in every way except one has a 4 and the other has a 4 w/small dot. The block is 71 also. I don't know the origin of the engine. I bought it in pieces with the machine work done already back in 85. I took it apart this year to rebuild.

[@jesse75]

Boss heads also have spring seats.

[@johnelliott7375]

Just got the notification in the USA took 34 minutes, according to the clicker. Good Friday to you.

[@svenomick5857]

Clevo King great info as per usual. Gee they are Massive Ports no doubt about it.

[@jadals1]

Man I wish we were neighbours😎🤙🏽

[@seanmadill283]

I appreciate the info about that. I did not know about the dots. Thanks Clevo king

[@ralphthomas7868]

Superb. Finally someone has settled this.

[@kpfpv8515]

I've been told that I have a set of 4v closed chamber big port heads on my engine. Thanks for the information I'm definitely going to double check them as they cost me a small fortune .👍🏻

[@alexb6018]

Good on you matey for putting it out there. I see the question being asked eternally again and again. Now if we could only get people to listen to your Video then I and many others wouldn't have to repeat the answer to this question so often. Cheers and thanks for taking the time.

[@nickshasteen6385]

Ive got a set of 4v no dot closed chamber heads

[@roaddog1973]

Me too D0AE-N heads 1970. I believe they have the smallest cc of all the closed chamber if I'm not mistaken.

[@AutoRestoMod]

I'm curious "why" the differences with the dot as well as non-dot 4V. I'm wondering if the dot is more a casting facility mark rather than whether open or closed.

[@thclevoking]

The 4v heads with just the 4 were the first ones made purely for a cleveland. They ran the large 4v exhaust port the same size and shape as boss 302 heads. The boss 302 heads had a smaller closed chamber then the cleveland ones and holes for water to pass through the intake surfaces. The small 4 dot indicated a revised smaller exhaust port with more meat around the upper bolt hole. The large 4 dot open chamber. They did make a small port 4v open chamber head that ran 2v valves but I’m get too come across a set to see how else they differ.

[@Hazard4K]

Thanks, I have a 351 4v (closed chamber) here in the states, and they (obviously) aren't as prominent here as they are in ozzie-land.... Have had them for years, they are engines my father decided not to work with in the end because he is old-school drag racer who preferred the Windsor engine or 460 .. I have been wanting to rebuild the Cleveland since i was a kid, and the ideas have been marinating over time on how i want to build it... looking for some more info from people who have attempting to run some big boost through them :)

[@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259]

Over here (US), we had a '71 Torino 3514V all factory and it rocked, must've been the last closed chamber 4V over here. Pretty sure it was closed chamber, never had the heads off to verify.

[@darrencameron6639]

Clevo King. Great information it is very appreciative with your knowledge. Hopefully be catching up soon. Have a great weekend. Love your videos. 🙂🦘🇦🇺👍. Dags.

[@ronniebraine9692]

Great video mate. Finally and about time some gave the correct info out on these heads. keep up the great work.

[@thclevoking]

Thanks mate!

[@lukewarm7744]

Nothing sounds like 4V 351.I'd rather has less power on the street with 4V's than more power with CHI's heads.

[@rossgirdeen3247]

Building a 4v Cleveland. How much better are the closed chamber heads they flow the same ?just higher compression more compression more power?. Im looking to build a Cleveland

[@darrelgarard7014]

YOU HAVE DONE IT AGAIN C.K.

[@AAhshitsun]

Great vid! So the 5 bolt holes on front is a guarantee that they are 4v? I also just saw your video that said 4v heads do not have the intake gasket dowels. My heads have a 4 with no dot, 5 front bolts, and the intake dowels. So im gonna pull the intake and see… update; Pulled the intake. Heads have a 4 no dot, big port, 5 bolt front with intake gasket dowels. DOAE N on heads.

[@thclevoking]

The 5 holes is only on the 4v heads, that’s odd about the dowels maybe someone felt the need to put them in. I have a fair few sets of 4v heads here and none are dowelled for the turkey pan.

[@guts1cnt]

I have the same on a 71 gt did yours end up being closed chamber?

[@buddygallagher1193]

Thanks for all the information man

[@NoBody-ht1oh]

Looking woolly there mate 🤣

[@gordoncurtin4820]

My 351 Cleveland doesn’t have a 2 or a 4 at all. The engine number indicates it came from a 73 XA. I know that the heads may not be original to the block. I go to a few car shows and notice a lot of Clevelands lacking those markings. We’re there another type of heads used?

[@petergiannaros9037]

If it's an all original engine that means it's running 351 2v open chamber heads ,Australian castings.302 Cleveland 2 v heads didn't have any markings either.

[@dennisbrown2770]

The dot on closed is behind the 4 open in the front of the 4

[@jaklevich]

So I have a 351 Cleveland rebuilt it.. Has Holley 670 street avenger double pumper, 4v blue thunder intake, hyperteuitic pistons, upgraded cam.. My mechanic said just to rebuild of the 4v open chamber heads, so they have machine work done and new valves.. Are those 4v open chambers going to be able to handle what I have done? I think I still need a good tune on that carburator though.. Also I'm running 4:11s in the back.. Just so I can get more of a kick of the line..

[@thclevoking]

Yes the 4v opens way outperform the 2v so that’s sweet, closed would be ideal but pending you location fuel might be too expensive

[@jaklevich]

@@thclevoking It's about 3.35 a gallon premium... I just want it to be a fun street car. I have noticed when I slam on the gas it wants to bog or fall flat.. Once I'm coasting and stomp on it takes off...

[@jaklevich]

@@thclevoking With the upgrades I've done to it I'm hoping to push 400 to 450 hp hopefully..

[@cammontreuil7509]

Will the open chambers handle what I done ? Did you replace the multi keeper valves with a single keeper ? Do you have screw in studs and guide plates ?

[@johanaberg4094]

Great video Clevo king! I have a question about the valves on these 4v heads. Do you recommend replacing the original valves? Have heard that they are not reliable .. If so, do you have any suggestions on which valves you usually use when you change? thanks in advance.

[@thclevoking]

Ferrea or Milodon mega flow valves I favour.

[@taylormach1699]

I have a set 4 dot on running engine, I don't know if it's a large dot or small dot . Measure the dot and let us know.

[@xacoupeguy]

very informative!! love it!

[@thclevoking]

Thanks Graham

[@wallafied]

There’s a fair bit of talk of using the 302 2v closed chambered heads with the 302 longer rods and a 351 crank. What are your thoughts on this? Or would it be worth going straight to a alloy head instead of using any of the ford heads?

[@MrCbell57]

Don’t do it. Go straight to alloy performance.

[@vicsspeedperformance950]

Hey Mate beautiful lay out of the heads . I'm looking for a hood scoop for my 70 Falcon can you help me out with a link for it . Great job

[@thclevoking]

Xw GT style one?

[@vicsspeedperformance950]

Yes sir Xw GT

[@rivalrotary]

Great info as usual mate. What’s the pros and cons running open or closed heads? Sorry if that’s a dumb question. Keep up the content boss

[@thclevoking]

Closed chambers is preferred for racing purposes to get more compression on a budget, and open is more for people that don’t want to run higher octane fuels and still drive them a lot.

[@rodan2852]

CC heads are also less prone to detonation with pump gas at CR's over 10:1 because they cool the incoming F/A charge more effectively....or so I hear anyway

[@grantlucas6678]

I love you wog brothers

[@dalebecker6583]

I could be wrong, you can check with multiple heads, but..it looked to me in video, the 4 is before the dot is closed chamber, dot then 4 is open chamber!? 4.=closed, so .4= open

[@stevepierce3509]

Have you any 4V heads available for my 70 Clevo legends ?

[@tonyelsworth4467]

I have a 71 fastback with 351 4v closed chamber heads, but on casting only reads number 4 with no dot..anyone out there have any info on this..

[@AlanSchildroth]

2v for the 351w

[@jk_navyko9006]

This is good but I am not able to tell if mine are a small dot or a BIG DOT they are from 3A17.

[@thclevoking]

Big dot 73 would be open chamber mate

[@cammontreuil7509]

@@thclevoking open chamber with 2 v valve.

[@boss351gt6]

Hey man I've got D1AE-GA heads stashed away for my street 351C. I'm thinking of going for the SCM alloy 4Vs. Reckon it's worth going for the later heads?

[@thclevoking]

SCM heads and intake would walk over stock iron 4vs id go that way if the budget enabled it

[@notme5909]

Cool....

[@nobiden3134]

And then, theres the Aussie 2v's 😏. Mine are on a M400. 285I @.500 225E @.500

[@ralphthomas7868]

I saw a Cleveland motor in a wrecking yard that had 2 with a dot stamped. Is that unusual?

[@thclevoking]

Early US open chamber 2v heads usually found on D blocks

[@hegonefishing9122]

Most common head

[@paulthornton4829]

Hey mate I have 4v heads with the 5 holes but no dot on the corner. What are these?

[@thclevoking]

Closed chamber if it’s just the 4

[@paulthornton4829]

@@thclevoking thanks mate. That’s a bonus. I was told they were open.

[@robpeters5204]

What does closed and open chamber mean?

[@hoedemakerbart]

High and low compression.. because emissions came into effect they changed to open chamber lower compression

[@otsenres1636]

I've never seen a close chambered 4V head with a dot of any size....all the ones with dots were open chamber...is this a north American thing?

[@hegonefishing9122]

I had closed chamber with a dot, during production they used what they had to keep the line moving....

[@David-jt6du]

I've got the 4dot closed chamber 1970 16 Nov dated on my 72 gran Torino

[@davetommy351]

@@David-jt6du watch Tim Halstead Drag Boss the 4Dot dont mean shit I agree I have 4 dot and have closed chamber there are heaps of gazza's with pages on this stuff the 4 DOT dont mean shit !!!!

[@trevorwilliams3776]

Just got the 73 mustang back from paint. Trying to get it running. It’s just a stock 351c with a 600 carb and a hei distributor. It’s getting gas and spark. But no matter what I do, it doesn’t wanna start. HELP!?

[@thclevoking]

Pm me and I’ll help trouble shoot mate

[@cammontreuil7509]

Get it running ?

[@trevorwilliams3776]

Yes! I need to update and post a video of it. Been busy getting the interior put in and the vinyl top. Ended up being The HEI distributor module, it was having a bad connection so once we changed out the internals of the new HEI distributor it fired right up. Turn start at the moment!

[@SouthernCrossMotors]

Can you please post the casting numbers on each? It is the casting numbers, not the dot that says whether they are open or closed.

[@cammontreuil7509]

Not even that. Some D1 heads were closed some open chamber.

[@cammontreuil7509]

Not even that. Some D1 heads were closed some open chamber.

[@351clevelandmodifiedmotor4]

I checked my head's on my 351 cleveland there's no 2 ,or 4, or dots on the heads, wtf , what heads do I have lol

[@thclevoking]

You are welcome to send me some pics on my Instagram the.clevoking and I can help identify them better

[@351clevelandmodifiedmotor4]

@@thclevoking I'll post a video of them on you tube, they're on the engine👍

[@lyndenkuster1269]

I have 3 block, 302, 351(I checked strock), 400m (I checked stroke) none have 2,4 or dots ....why

[@gball231jr]

Are open chamber heads 2/4v good street performance wise?

[@thclevoking]

Yes mate open chamber is slightly more resistant to pinging when you are building a street engine that you want to run on 91 octane. If you go closed you will only be able to use 98 octane.

[@gball231jr]

So Clevland really didn’t make a Bad cylinder head? Bc my builder told me to go w 2v open in my street car eventho I have 4vclosed

[@cammontreuil7509]

@@gball231jr I built over 70 cleveland engines. The best street head is a closed chamber 4 v. Just use a small cam. A factory 1970 engine was great street engine and still is.

[@davetommy351]

so 4 small dot closed chamber 4 large dot open chamber is that correct ?

[@thclevoking]

Yes sir that’s what I tried to say

[@hegonefishing9122]

Not so in U.S.i believe, but maybe after they ended up down under. Up here they Machined whatever was available to keep the line moving. I have found closed chamber with dot and open with no dot over the years. This was verified by a machinist line worker from the period. However it is a general rule that dot meant open in U.S.

[@RandomMan1098]

Anyone know where a set of 2V Aussie heads can be bought?

[@thclevoking]

I have a few sets

[@RandomMan1098]

@@thclevoking can you get them to the US? Thx for the reply!! :)

[@thclevoking]

@@RandomMan1098 yes but shipping isn’t cheap

[@RandomMan1098]

@@thclevoking I can assume the shipping will be pricey. Can I direct message you somehow?

[@thclevoking]

@@RandomMan1098 yes I have Instagram and a fb business page set up “The Clevo King”

[@brucey304]

what are the 4v heads that don't have a dot.

[@thclevoking]

Closed chamber mate

[@panelvanman7671]

have you ever seen a 3dot ?

[@thclevoking]

Yes on Yella terra prepped 2v heads

[@panelvanman7671]

@@thclevoking i have some in the shed , ill have to investigate now lol , cheers

[@jayallen408]

Okay I'm learning that the 4V obviously doesn't mean 4 valve

[@hoedemakerbart]

😂im european to. At first i didnt understand. Anyhow it mean 4 venturi engine

[@michaellewis7117]

I was told NO dot _1970 Dot is 1971

[@thclevoking]

Yeah the earlier 1970 heads have no dot and are all closed chamber

[@michaellewis7117]

@@thclevoking I just found a guy with a 4 bolt, 4bbl motor from 1970 in a barn for 25 years. Im going to buy it for 600 and rebuild it for my Ranchero. It has no dot.

[@jeffr4110]

4V heads are absolute garbage! The roof of the exaust is pathetic & the floors are WAY to low