35mm Panoramic Cameras - Real vs. Fake

[@amplifierheadache]

Yeah a few days ago I broke down and said "Ok, it's time." and bought myself a Horizont, Shipping from the Russian Federation takes a long time, but I'm pretty excited about it, I'm thinking of shooting some Ektachrome through it, should be fun.

[@AnalogResurgence]

That's going to be so much fun, especially with those panoramic slides!

[@rookmaster7502]

Another option is to load 135 film into a medium format camera (using an adapter). Of course composing is a bit of a challenge, but it will generate a true 35mm panoramic image.

[@anta40]

Depends on the camera. Bronica ETRS has a 35mm film back, and Mamiya 7 has a 35mm adapter, so film loading/unloading is straightforward. Sadly, the Mamiya 7 isn't cheap. Or you can use 3D printed adapter on Pentax 67, but requires a dark cloth for unloading film. Not exactly convenient, eh?

[@aengusmacnaughton1375]

Been thinking on this one. I do have to counter that the "cropped film gate" panoramic cameras are not "fake" -- they do capture a panoramic image. Yes -- it is not even as much image as a standard 35mm negative. It is definitely not as much image as a panoramic camera that uses the full height of a 35mm frame. But, the image is panoramic nonetheless. And there are some advantages over the cameras that use the full frame height. You can still get 24/36 pictures in a roll of 35mm film. You can send off your film for normal development/scanning/printing/negative cutting. And in addition to the toy and point & shoot "panoramic" cameras -- I know that both Minolta and Canon offered very well-featured models of their autofocus SLR lines (Minolta Maxxum, Canon EOS/Rebel) which had a panoramic mode. It -- like the cheaper cameras -- dropped a top/bottom blind on both the film gate and the viewfinder. The reason that I like these is that, like the most (but not all) of the fancier panoramic cameras -- your view/composition is panoramic. And that makes a big difference to me anyway -- compared to shooting standard 35mm and then cropping top/bottom later. It really changes my composition thinking when the viewfinder is in panoramic mode. In fact I often shoot a specific scene with and without the panoramic mode -- and I can feel how my response to what I see when shooting is different -- and then when I get the negative scans back. Yes, I'd love to have one of those fancy, rotating lens models -- but these AF 35mm SLRs are great in that with the flip of a switch they shoot both standard and panoramic, all on the same roll of film, and the processing/scanning is the same process.

[@philhutchens5227]

The Bronica sq-a (and ETRS?) have specific film backs for taking 35mm panoramics

[@andrewshieldsphoto]

I shamelessly enjoy shooting my faux pano p&s. It has cropped framelines and composing is a fun and welcomed challenge. I don't think it's lost on anyone shooting one of these that we're tossing the top and bottom of the film. Mine was $4 so what, a 1000x's less than an XPan? Obviously the negatives won't print as well as an XPan and I would never use it for paid work but realistically, I mean, the experience of shooting a barn door pano cam is extremely similar to shooting one 1000x's more expensive. Furthermore, with the exception of a few slrs towards the end of film slrs, all of these faux pano cams were cheap p&s cameras. It's not like they were being marketed to studio shooters and wedding photographers. They were meant to be cheap and fun. A goal they've succeeded on in my use. Great channel and I look forward to future videos, 😀.

[@snapbackhijab9801]

Andy Shields is that the Minolta you’re talking about?

[@erikvalkman9640]

Exactly! I would even dare go further and argue that the Xpan is just as much a ‘fake’ panorama camera, albeit a medium format one. 😉

[@dutchbeef8920]

@@erikvalkman9640exactly just more camera snobbery

[@heresmyurl]

I'm being pedantic, I know, but the widelux, horizont, and perfect, all have rotating lenses, they expose a slit as they move; it isn't just a rotating thing in front of the lens.

[@AnalogResurgence]

My mistake! I should have explained the mechanisms better, thanks for pointing that out

[@hocadidilyocuttCAP]

You can run 35mm through a lot of medium format cameras to get a panorama with sprockets. It's better to do it with a system camera and a 220 back (like the rz/rb67s and such) since it'll hold the film flatter though. People will say just to crop 120 film, but I find that such a waste and I like at least being able to see what the picture looks like with sprockets even if I'm going to crop them out.

[@andrewbarnum5040]

And this is why I LOVE APS film. The only native 16x9 image.... And I sometimes feel no one else has APS love :(

[@TheChannelZS]

I wish APS could come back, it seems so cool. I like the compactness of the APS cameras and I'd love to shoot it sometime if it became practical to do so.

[@andrewbarnum5040]

@@TheChannelZS thanks for comment to my APS comment...lol I wrote that long ago and now have more of a love hate relationship with APS. I am still shooting it but have since opened a film lab of my own and have found out how much of a headache it is to work with the stuff on a professional level, so not likely it will ever come back. However for 16x9 film photos are are some 35mm and 120 format options I was not aware of before. The market for film and cameras to shoot the film is really picking up momentum. Also APS is not normal film. It is C-41 but has a transparent magnetic layer which can store information which some of the higher end cameras can use to store information much like you find in the data stored in JPEG files from digital cameras. So they can't just cut film down to that size. Special equipment is needed to develop and scan the film and professional grade film scanners are expensive and no longer made. The HS-1800 was the last and it could do APS but production stopped a few years ago. So the return of APS may never come but there are enough alternatives to keep all of us film Happy photography smiling for years to come.

[@TheChannelZS]

@@andrewbarnum5040 Whoa, wild! I hope the film lab business is going well. I didn't know about the magnetic coating part, that's super cool though. It does make sense that the tooling for it's development and production may never return then. Too bad though, it really seemed like a very advanced film format and had the potential to be much more if it had stuck.

[@andrewbarnum5040]

@@TheChannelZS It would be great if Kodak gave it some modern upgrades and did rerelease it much like Polaroid did with the i-Type film. But the market right now is driven by 35mm and 120 and I don't see APS or any other wish list formats (126, 127, 620 etc...) Making a comeback anytime soon. The film lab business is booming! We are the cheapest option in the United States.

[@OlDoinyo]

@@andrewbarnum5040 620 is just 120 on a different spool. You can obtain the spools and respool it yourself if you are so inclined.

[@pablovi77]

“Fake” panorama has a purpose, first, it lets you frame accordingly, instead of cropping in post, which would still waste image and quality. And it comes from cinema, and it’s the way it has been done forever, and is still being done, spherical widescreen always cuts the image and quality, but you get frame guides for framing. During the film days, and now with digital sensors, you have a full frame image, that need to be cropped to different aspect ratios for release.

[@shishka3116]

fake or not fake - well it's $5000 vs.

[@jamesoiler2530]

So you call it fake because you thought it did something it didn't? I worked at photo labs back in the era when the cameras with pano mode first came out. There was a film gate for the print machine that would make a wider print. It was a pretty cool innovation. I love the pano switch on my Pentax point and shoot. Nothing fake about it. Encourages people to think in the wider aspect ratio. The finer grained films were also released at this same time (t-grain). Allowing for a sharper image in this sliver of the 35mm frame.

[@partlydave2]

I picked up a Horizon 202 on craigslist a few months ago because it looked so funky and interesting and I love the images it has produced! With the rotating lens, you do get some distortion of the horizontal lines, especially if you're close to your subject, but I am very pleased with the results. I've definitely gotten some funny looks from people when I use it; the rotating component can be pretty jarring if you're not expecting it lol

[@rolandthomasset1713]

very nice ! Many people have been fooled into thinking they were taking “real Panoramic” photos while they were taking fake ones. When I ended showing them how these were simply cutting off some portions of their image to accomplish this they were still holding on to their oroginal belief because their cameras said “Panorama” !!!!

[@DanafoxyVixen]

when i shoot Panoramic pictures i shoot through a huge ex-cinema Anamorphic lens.. and ether correct the stretch in post digitally or on the enlarger with another anamorphic lens

[@andyr2904]

I picked up an old ansco panoramic camera for $5 at a thrift store today and was curious why it just took regular 35mm film. Now I can see it has those little blinders- fake panorama! Very enlightening, thanks man

[@joshuawisdom7585]

Great video, would love to see more content on 16mm film or even your Bolex, 16mm film is always such an interesting topic.

[@AnalogResurgence]

More stuff on that is definitely coming in the future!

[@ffenixrising]

Back in the mid 90s, I owned a fake panoramic Canon point and shoot (sadly, I forgot the exact model name, and I'm actively searching for it now). Even though the negatives have black bars on the top and bottom, film printers back then understood that the photos I shot were panoramic and they will actually print the "full size." Meaning instead of 6x4 with black bars, the prints would be 12x4. Walgreens printed my "fake panoramic" negatives to the proper panoramic ratio and the price was not much more than regular prints. Unfortunately, that Canon camera was not the best of quality, and the zoom mechanism always get stuck and often times the camera would just not roll the film, and eventually stopped working altogether.

[@BobDiaz123]

Back in the 1970s I worked at a camera store and got the chance to try out the Widelux Camera. It was a fun camera, because the lens rotated to take the image. I had my own darkroom so it was easy to print the photos. The instructions said to always shoot from a tripod, but moving the camera during exposure resulted in a funny distortion of the image.

[@ofutpemata3769]

Hey. I have a suggestion. Agfa's rapid film is quite an ambiguous subject for me. I can't seems to find too much information online. Maybe you can help a brother out and make a video about it. Cheers. Love your content as always.

[@AnalogResurgence]

Hmmm sounds interesting! I'll do my own research on it and see if I can put something together on it in the future!

[@ofutpemata3769]

@@AnalogResurgence thanks, mate. Love ya!

[@Otokichi786]

I was curious about the Rapid cartridge system and kept an eye out for the Minolta' 24 Rapid camera. (I already had the 126 version, the Autopak 700.) Since the Rapid system used 35mm film, it had more room for experimentation than Kodak's 126 system. I noticed that there was a metal finger on the side of the Rapid cartridge that contacted a spring loaded pin in the camera body to register film speed. I cut several wooden pins of varying length to see what it took to use Plus-X or Tri-X Pan in this camera. Getting good, used Rapid cartridges was a problem, since the format never took off in the U.S. Eventually, the felt lips would wear away, leading to scratched or non-advancing film. I went back to Ye Olde Leica IIIa, but the 24X24mm Rapid system was a fascinating photographic detour.

[@jordanlaine7412]

The Sprocket Rocket is the camera that got me back into shooting film. It's a neat little thing that add 0 weight to my camera bag when i travel, I wish I could say the same about my Autocord L 😂

[@YSoreil]

If I ever wind up with more money than I know what to do with I want try to try a 6x17 back. Currently when I shoot panoramics I simply crop from a 6x7 image, it's a bit less cost effective than an xpan and not pocketable but I don't have to get a ludicrously expensive camera.

[@nunca_te_acostaras]

just came here to see if you have your own x-pan! :D:D:D:D i own both spinner 360 and Horizon perfekt and there is a huge different in the way you can control what it's going on. Nice video!

[@solublefaces4264]

Man I found one of these in a second hand shop almost immediately after I finished this video lmao. Safe to say I didn’t pick it up

[@SilntObsvr]

For whatever it's worth, those point-and-shoot "panoramic" cameras Noah showed are actually decent point-and-shoot cameras -- just ignore the panorama switch and have fun shooting regular 35 mm with them.

[@SgtPnkks]

I have a yashica that does "panorama" with a snap in adapter... You end up being stuck shooting the entire roll like that unlike cameras that have a switch to activate crop mode

[@fractalife]

great review, anyway, I saw canon autoboy s panorama, is that camera is fake panoramic?

[@tomcruz3774]

Thank you! Any experience using anamorphic lenses/adapters with a 135 film camera and then scanning and desqueezing the image in software? I rarely see this being done and I've never seen a video on it

[@HaydenAmarantes]

You could probably get an Arriflex IIc with cheap Anamorphics and still have it cost less than the XPAN

[@VRHowTo]

Nice video. Have you come across any use of anamorphic lenses for analog stills photography? I suppose that would also be able to produce panoramic images, but I've only heard of it in use for motion pictures

[@analogmyke646]

Great video! i dont know why some one would want something like the sprocket rocket tho.

[@AnalogResurgence]

Lomography really tends to create cameras that lean more towards the gimmicky side of things so I guess it's just for people who really want that look. Honestly being able to fully scan a negative with an image that covers the perforations as well is something that some labs either can't do or have to charge extra. It can be a little difficult!

[@hocadidilyocuttCAP]

it's cool and it's cheap.

[@CymbalsOnly]

It’s a toy camera. The sprocket holes are optional. You can mask those off. They give you an Xpan-like experience for 1/100th cost. They also achieve about 1/100th quality, but like super-8, give you an overall different feel to your images.

[@Dangoldmedia]

I love my Horizon Kompakt, cheap, fun and really works well.

[@richardellingworth4484]

Is there a problem getting film developed commercially from a true panoramic camera? Is it possible that they might cut the negatives right in the middle of a shot because of the unusual aspect ratio? How would you go about ordering prints, since panoramic is unlikely to be an option. Obviously, if developing yourself, you have full control over this.

[@CymbalsOnly]

If not developing yourself, you need to instruct the lab about the format, and what you’d like done.

[@A.L.Estrella]

Amazing video as always. I don't know if I'm the first one but I wanted to say that I'm form Mexico, so you really are going wider

[@Francesco420]

Konica big mini is a real panorama film camera?

[@donnarichey144]

I have an old Kodak Advantix 3X001X camera. I can't find any information on it, what kind of batteries or book on it. I have had it for many years. Don't know what year I bought it. Can you find me any info on it. I sure would appreciate it. Thank you. It takes the panoramic photos.

[@Kitsune_Dev]

Thanks

[@JayGrapherTh]

i really wish you could help explain how those X-PAN/fuji TX1 CAMERAS could take those panoramic shots with a single lens, or are those lens specifically designed larger than normal 35mm camera lens..

[@AnalogResurgence]

That’s something I’m going to research and maybe touch on in the future, Thanks!

[@EugeneNikiforov]

XPAN lenses are true Medium format, that's why it's so expensive

[@Kitsune_Dev]

You are great

[@codex7546]

Thank you for this!! Subscribed ^__^

[@DavidBrown-zp5br]

I have a Horizon Kompakt that I've taken out a few times. Let me know if you're interested in shooting it! Id love to lend her out and here what you think! I can DM you on twitter if that's easier. I think its technically a Kompakt Horizon, through my research Kompakt was a huge brand for camera during the soviet union.

[@SilntObsvr]

Another way to get high quality pano negatives (with sprockets holes, or for a little more work, without) is to load 35 mm film into a medium format 6x6, 6x7, or 6x9 (or, for the real masochist, 6x12) camera. I've done this (once, so far) with a Mamiya RB67 and 220 film back. I may, at some point, make a film mask to get neat corners and cover the sprocket holes, so my 24x67 frames will look like they're supposed to be that size. Yeah, the camera weighs as much as my Pentax Spotmatic, a flash unit, and three extra lenses -- but my Spotmatic can't switch to 6x4.5 or 6x7 by just pushing in the darkslide, unlatching the film back, and latching on a different one. Possibly with a very different film loaded.

[@CymbalsOnly]

This approach is still just an in-camera crop. You are not increasing the angle of view. On the Horizont/FT-2 and widelux for instance, your angle of view is 120° and 126° respectively.

[@SilntObsvr]

@@CymbalsOnly Well, true, in that I'm turning a 56x70 frame into a 24x70 -- with a 50mm lens I still only get about 70° edge to edge. Seems wider than that. None the less, I'm getting roundly 4x the negative area with a *MUCH* better lens than those "crop-o-matic" cameras have.

[@shishka3116]

@@CymbalsOnly The xpan does basically the same. It's a medium format lens on a 35mm camera. So you kind of crop.

[@CymbalsOnly]

@@shishka3116 Even the 30mm lens on the xpan, is still 98°. The 45mm lens is 76°. Wide angle, sure, but I personally don’t think of these as truly panoramic. I’m a cirkut camera shooter, so I’m definitely coming from a different perspective. I’d love to approximate that vibe in a hand-held form, but the xpan, while it takes beautiful images, is still not wide enough for me to personally think of as panoramic.

[@shishka3116]

@@CymbalsOnly i see what you mean

[@benjaminpelling8312]

Hey can anyone help I got a 35mm HALINA Panorama. Can anyone help, I’d like to remove the plastic horizontal covers is this possible ?

[@StigSlashBro]

In which Jay Baruchel says"panoramic" 100 times

[@grabbestei]

The day that i get to own a XPAN is the day that i made it

[@hiro-p8368]

Carlton and Metcalfe

[@namsomirak8972]

Not true. So you think if I have Fuji GX617, all other small pan cameras are fake for me😆. No fake or true panoramic. Difference only in resolution. Small resolution or high resolution.

[@abdorrahim914]

I should have subed long time ago

[@sinoperture]

Analogue.

[@alandougan3600]

Just take two shots, then scan and stitch in lightroom

[@randellpate9265]

Wow! Looks like this guy just threw anamorphic lenses out the door. Maybe someone will explain to him that panoramic is a format and not a film size. People who use the cropped film size cameras don’t normally have their own darkrooms. This video is like saying people who talk through their nose don’t really talk at all and are just wasting their words for talking at all.