36 Cal Conversion Cylinder & SWC bullets - Pietta 1858 Navy

Testing some 38 SP Swaged Hollow Base Wadcutter lead (sold by Rose Distribution) and some DIY modified SWC bullets in a 1858 36 caliber Pietta Navy. Checking to see if they expand and if the base will show signs that it engaged the rifling.

[@thorsaxe5881]

I have wrote to you many times about Accuracy. bullets do different things at different distances. I stopped watching a guys channel because it was a waste of time, He has all credit is a experienced caster/reloader. however, watching him go through all the meticulous pain staking measuring, weighing, research on powder selection, powder coating, baking, sizing and all that other stuff, hours and hours of prep and perfection. JUST to shoot them at Seven yards as an accuracy test. I asked myself, what is a bigger waste of time, Him doing all that just to test at seven yards, or Me watching his video doing all that stuff to shoot them at seven yards? every bullet needs to be tested at a respectable distance in pistol over twenty yards when finding how accurate a Load/ bullet combination is, and that is why I watch quality content as what you demonstrate. Thanks and Keep up the good work, Peace - Dave

[@oldranger3044]

@@thorsaxe5881 Same to you Dave. You might have forgot that those fellows usually have lots of graphic and wild AC/DC (sorry, not my cup of music) or some form of it going on as an intro. I probably could work with that, but when advertised as an accuracy test being shot off hand, no rest, at an unspecified distance, I’m sorry, I get disappointed. Time separates Men from Boys. Distance separates shooting from noise. Nice to hear from you Dave, keep a low profile if the axe starts to swing. O.R.

[@Everythingblackpowder]

I would call that a success!

[@oldranger3044]

@@Everythingblackpowder Thanks Jake. I was thinking about the same. Then I tried some that were pure lead rather than my usual range lead hardness (probably about 10), those didn’t work so well. They were more difficult to machine, more like stiff butter. Anyway it says I believe that other things besides wadcutter bullets have possibilities if hollow based. Have a great New Year’s party, wishing I could be with you guys where what little rules there are, it’s Black Powder that rules. O.R.

[@dennistennyson4540]

Thanks for your comment OR. Back in my days of personal protection carry I loaded them backwards making them a hollow point bullet. I got the info from Shooting Times magazine back I in the days of Skeeter Skelton(70's). Happy shooting sir.

[@oldranger3044]

@@dennistennyson4540 Those were good times reading articles by Skeeter and Elmer. I remember reading a story Skeeter wrote titled “The Treasure of Turkey Track”. He was getting a SA worked on by a fellow that had lots of spare parts. That caused my brother and I to order numerous barrels and cylinder’s for the single actions, probably over $700 in the 70’s. Still have them, but wishing I’d have bought two pythons instead. O.R.

[@johnt.chambers4204]

I reamed the cylinder slightly on mine for .38 S&W ammo. They are only slightly larger than the 38 special, but it is enough to engage the rifling. It shoots pretty close to point of aim and keeps a good group.

[@oldranger3044]

@@johnt.chambers4204 Thanks. Thats an interesting idea. I wasn’t aware that the S&W 38 was different than the 38 special but saw the video where Duelist 54 explained it. If the mold will cast maybe a.361 and most of the percussion barrels are.360, that might be enough to improve things. Appreciate your comment about this.

[@togray619]

Merry Christmas Mr. Ranger! I converted my Uberti 1861 navy to .38 using a Kirst conversion cylinder and ring. I had to use hollow base wad cutters because most 38 special rounds were too long for the Kirst cylinder. Looking for some ammunition I was informed that the Uberti guns take a shorter cylinder versus those of Pietta. It shoots those hollow based wad cutters just fine and is a fun conversion. Thanks for the information!

[@oldranger3044]

@@togray619 👍. O.R.

[@DarkMatterX1]

Another great video, OR. Thanks for all your content. It's very interesting, informative and helpful.

[@jlbksinger]

Very informative video. Hope you had a Merry Christmas.

[@oldranger3044]

You too, hope you are having a great new year. O.R.

[@deandeann1541]

I need a post hole pounder. I'll have to look for one for sale somewhere. There's always some post hole around the house that needs a good pounding. Glad to see your still making videos, it's been quite a while since I've seen one of your videos in my recommendations, and I'm subscribed, too. Hope you had a good x-mas & have a good New Year's!

[@oldranger3044]

@@deandeann1541 Right!! There’s lots of stuff that can use a GOOD pounding, hopefully some will get it. Thanks, yes I haven’t posted anything for a while. Have a couple I’m thinking about that might be interesting to some folks. O.R.

[@mikek8089]

I've always used 148gr. HBWC's with good results, in my Kirst Conversion on my Uberti 1851.

[@cal9064]

Interesting content, as always. I built a simple bullet recovery box out of 4" X 6" board, then filled it with wet cardboard. Works well. Though I also believe that the 1:30 pitch is a bit slow for conical bullets, your results tend to prove otherwise with the 148 grain wad cutters. Regardless, still acceptable accuracy.

[@oldranger3044]

@@cal9064 I’ve been disappointed with Pietta for not going faster in their 36’s. Lately I’m not so sure, even though overall I’d say a faster twist in that small caliber makes sense. Thanks for the comment. O.R.

[@karsonbranham3900]

Nice results! I like pietta’s offerings in the black powder cap and ball sector, what I don’t like is their average rifling twist rate of 1 in 30”. I think if you could get a barrel with a tighter twist rate, your accuracy would increase. As always, great content! Happy New Year!

[@deandeann1541]

Pietta used to sell a target model made with gain twist rifling - it was very expensive though. IIRC it was about 1/17 twist. I don't remember if it was a Colt or a Remington reproduction. Some original Colts were gain twist.

[@oldranger3044]

@@karsonbranham3900 I believe that is called the shooter’s model or something like that. Still available (or was) from Dixie Gun Works, it is in 44 cal. I agree with karson that it would be nice if Pietta had a faster twist, 1-30 seems slow, but at times have had decent results. Seems the new Uberti’s with the 1-16 do better on the average. O.R.

[@DarkMatterX1]

Is that right, that Pietta's use a 1:30" twist?

[@oldranger3044]

@@DarkMatterX1 My experience is Pietta has had the 1-30 in their 36 caliber guns. They also used it in their 44’s. They still use 1-30 in their 36 caliber models but have switched to 1-16 or maybe its 18 in their Remington models (44’s), but their 51’s in 44 are still 1-30, which is true I believe (too lazy to find mine) of their of their current 1860 Army. O.R.

[@philgraves56]

Good to see a video from you again. It's been awhile; i hope all is well. You normally don't have powder/grains listed on your targets. It appears that these were all smokeless powder. Have you watched the "Everything Black Powder" episode where he found that the hollow base wadcutters were much more accurate with black powder as opposed to smokeless? In his revolvers there was a big difference.

[@oldranger3044]

Thanks, I'll have to check that out. Ya, usually don't want to get much into the loads or powder used. Have read somewhere that KZbin frowns on that. These were pretty much the standard low power wadcutter loads used by most target shooters. Thanks for the comment. O.R.

[@dorisjohnson8857]

Good to see you back You have been missed. Great video. Maybe you could show how you "hollow base " those SWC's (drill press? )and maybe compare results with smokeless vs BP ❤DJ

[@oldranger3044]

@@dorisjohnson8857 Great comment and question Doris. Metal lathe. I just eyeballed how far to run the drill in. It was sort of labor intensive. The bullets used for the test were my typical cartridge range lead hardness. Then I thought I’d get wise and use pure lead. Wasn’t one of my better ideas. It didn’t machine well, and shot worse. I did at least stop the tumbling to my satisfaction, other than that, not sure what was shown her. One commenter pointed out that to his (and mine) surprise, the slow twist seems to be able to stabilize the conicals, something I wasn’t thinking about. Always a faster (in this case smarter) gun. Have a great New Year. O.R.

[@dorisjohnson8857]

@@oldranger3044 Happy New You you too 🙂 I guess that at 15-20 yrds a dead soft tumbling bullet might not be so bad defensively😄

[@oldranger3044]

@@dorisjohnson8857 As usual, you are so correct. Wild Bill might opt for the accuracy, but for most, more powder, and at night for self defense it’s probably that huge flash of light that will help to direct the next shot. Stay safe. O.R.

[@dugbert5]

Very interesting. It would be nice to know the cylinder throat dimensions. I remember reading years ago about cylinder throat dimensions in .45 colt revolvers being undersized related to bore size. I'm sure the slow twist rate has negative effect. Nice video.

[@StevenMMan]

Hey good to see ya. Good experiment. The measurements you getting tells me you are most likely shooting a peitta. As I did order a test mold with two different bullet weights, at a diameter of 371. I also ordered a .368 sizer die. For now though I have put off doing a gated conversion for now. Have a different direction to pursue on the 36 Remington. Actually sold off all one my Remington uberti's. So the only. 36 Remington I own is the belt model. Still have my uberti Colts. The old army changes will lend insight as to the next 36 cal test. Last note I was on dixie's web recently, at least on the uberti Remington they stopped putting in the description. 375 bore diameter. It's now reads .371. Again consistent with my findings. Mountain man

[@oldranger3044]

@@StevenMMan Right on, Pietta. Actually the one shooting here is the neighbors and I suspect he or someone took some off the front sight as the Rems usually shoot low. As stock, probably would have been close to POA with the conicals. You’re right, 375 would be hugely over, especially when the chambers size the ball to closer to .368 (varies of course). Thanks for the comment and have a great New Year. O.R.

[@dennistennyson4540]

You might try Speer pistol 38 caliber wadcutter bullets. They are hollow base, weight is 148 grains, 358 diameter.

[@oldranger3044]

@@dennistennyson4540 Thanks for the info. Turns out that I have used them before in other 38 guns and they are fine. They seem to be hit and miss as far as supply, but not in quality. I found the “zero” swaged to do as well, and a tad better in one gun. They have a slight taper at the base which in a nice feature when starting in the seating operation. Their availability was much better, and better price I believe. Sold by Rose Distribution, they also have a good selection of other bullets. O.R.

[@paulkopacz5051]

This is good to know, thanks. I'm considering getting a conversion cylinder for my 1861 Uberti and this gives me encouragement. I do have a question for you about the New model Navy and Army. I have an old Armi San Paolo New model Army in .44 and a Pietta Sheriff's model on the way. The mainspring is very heavy in the Armi San Paolo but I do not see reduced power mainsprings on Wolff's site for the Remington. I am willing to buy stock springs and thin them out but do you know of a source for reduced power mainsprings for the Remington? Thanks.

[@oldranger3044]

@@paulkopacz5051 Sorry I don’t know of any. I’m not sure if you’re aware, but Remington has a screw along the inside of the grip that allows regulation of spring tension. A neat feature. You can loosen it to the point where it probably wouldn’t set off the cap. O.R.

[@paulkopacz5051]

@@oldranger3044 Thanks and yes I am aware of the spring tension screw but mine has no effect whatsoever no matter how loose or tight I make it, the spring is ridiculously strong. I also just found out that nobody makes a wire trigger/bolt spring for the Remington either but I have never had a flat spring break on a Remington so maybe that's why they aren't made. I guess I'll just buy a few stock springs and thin them out to my desired weight. Thanks and good shooting!

[@martinkavanagh196]

Good Work Mr O R .. and G'Day from The Hurunui New Zealand. - Did you ever try loading those HBWCs backwards into the brass? They shoot about the same for me AND give very interesting expansion when arriving 'open mouthed' in lumps of modeling clay we call "plasticene". ( - I can't afford to import Ballistic Gel). Keep out of that rain mate.

[@oldranger3044]

@@martinkavanagh196 Thanks. That rain this time of the year here is a real pain here. Melts what little snow we have and then the frost goes down and could freeze up the septic, not to mention the water line from our spring. Boy, the wife will be pissed if she has to start hauling water from town to do the laundry, and if the septic quits, I can see a divorce won’t be far behind. Stay well, and keep one eye on the back side. O.R.

[@richperdue9344]

Very interesting. Probably any soft lead hollow base wadcutter will perform well? Got to admit I'm kind of surprised at your results.

[@oldranger3044]

I agree. They won't turn it into a target style gun, but sure keeps them on the target. O.R.

[@lelonbond6682]

undersize bullets have to be pure lead to work well the semiwadcutters are probably harder.

[@oldranger3044]

@@lelonbond6682 The ones I used were my normal cast from range lead, about 8-10 hardness. I then went to pure lead (which I’m pretty sure the HBWC is), thinking it would be better yet. Turned out that they didn’t machine well and results therefore were worse. O.R.

[@grassroot011]

Noticed some faults in the casting of a couple of bullets. Doesn't that cause some flyers, Un reliable results?

[@oldranger3044]

@@grassroot011 Yes, poorly cast bullets can’t help things. With all that’s going on with these types of guns, I feel that unless there was a pretty good sized air pocket, slight wrinkles or casting are not what gives issues. Just consider the target where most were tumbling. I suppose someone could conclude that was because of improper cast or defects. Turns out that would be a mile off. I have shot swaged wadcutters from a custom gun using a Ransom rest, and still they don’t all end up in one hole. But again yes, and thanks for drawing attention to this, but flyers, or those out of the group, I believe are probably due to something else. More likely a non centered hole in the base, or the marks the clamping device left that held the bullet while the base was being bored. O.R.

[@CandidZulu]

What do you use to drill he hollow base with?

[@oldranger3044]

@@CandidZulu I used my metal lathe. Without that, it’s hard to center. Its labor intensive, and not very accurate, but did answer the question about being able to stop the tumbling. In the practical world, I’m just going to use the Hollow base wadcutters, which are pretty available. Sometimes Midway USA has Speer, I got mine from Rose Distribution (called the ZERO bullet). O.R.

[@jameshorne9351]

​@@oldranger3044sorry about leaving my comment in the reply section, but it's not letting me leave a comment just straight in the comments idk why, but thank you for the info, I have the same Pietta 1858 36 cal, I absolutely love it! I am going to get a howel conversion cylinder very soon & I've been wanting to see someone do exactly what you just did so I could see how well the wadcutters engage the rifling. Thanks so much. Merry Christmas & Happy New Year!

[@CandidZulu]

@@oldranger3044 Yes, a collett and a D bit seems to me the best approach.