36 Year Old Froning Would Have Won the 2023 CrossFIt Games

[@spencergsmith]

At the Aerobic Capacity seminar last year, in Hinshaw’s own words: “Rich is the fittest he’s ever been. If he competed, I’m certain he would finish on the podium.” As great as Fraser was, Froning will always be GOAT to me.

[@hillerfit]

I heard this. I’ve got mixed hinshaw opinions. But this one I can get down with 🫡

[@spencergsmith]

@@hillerfit I’d be curious to hear your thoughts. He seemed legitimate when I met him last year, and the results he’s produced with athletes like Froning speak for themselves.

[@phillipmkelly]

Froning IS the GOAT

[@spencergsmith]

@@phillipmkelly agreed, PK

[@triwithlaura3138]

Same way Hinshaw endorsed that 5k run. He exaggerates constantly 😂

[@danielbloshchuk5156]

You nailed the ending with “you telling Froning, his dad and his camera man that they are wrong too”😂

[@KennethDollar]

Froning is always and forever the original GOAT of Crossfit

[@comradedyatlov712]

Original TREN user of Crossfit

[@cf_andr3]

Now, thanks to you - I really want to see Rich Froning at the 2024 CF Games, I think that will be epic and will also draw massive attention. If that happens I will try everything to get tickets and fly to the US (hopefully Ohio). !! Froning - 2024 !!

[@sdfdfdg839]

1 piece u might have overlooked or at least didn't talk about is how does 36yo fronings body recover compared to much younger adler? and/or compared to younger fronings ability to recover.

[@12dailydosesofstuff]

steroid.

[@joshuabeeker]

Bravo, this was a masterpiece and I was engaged the entire time. Thank you for keeping me company while I do the dishes!!!

[@nicktatum3008]

Great video and to have Rich Jr reply was cool. Froning would have won this years I think. He really is the OG/GOAT.

[@kariweems5164]

I'm biased, I'm a Froning fan, Crossfit, hunting, biking, herding bison, life etc. So I totally agree he would have won. He crushes everything he puts his mind to, it's that switch Rich Sr. was talking about. He is a rare breed and too humble to accept the much deserved title of GOAT!

[@gossipgugu]

Dadadada it's the one only TDC! Big dawg😎⚔️

[@ZachDylik]

Great video, Hiller. Spot on thought process. I honestly think Rich got fitter after he retired from indy, and definitely would've won 2015 Games potentially even 2016 as well. When they moved to Madison is the real question because I feel like Fraser was on another level at that point

[@camerongray7767]

2015 yes, 2016 no way

[@Bern1808]

Everyone looks at Fraser's development as if 2014 Rich exists in a static vacuum. For individual competition, Froning would have "ramped up" his performance as well. It would have been interesting to see these two greats go head to head for a few more years. My only worry is that either of them might have pushed themself to a serious injury in competition. Both are ultimate warriors and would rather die than lose.

[@maverickrod2443]

@@Bern1808yeah well… someone ran away from it

[@teamRoyce]

@@maverickrod2443 common misconception - Rich has called his "retirement" long before the Games begun. Long before anyone knew who Mat Fraser was or would be.

[@EduardoRamirez-ir6vf]

Just watching his channel and watching Froninings' competitive nature come out and how he still doesn't digest losing well, he would definitely have a great run even now.

[@reneeoleniacz1855]

Great video and really enjoyed it. I’ve noticed you keep saying melody instead of medley… is that on puporse?

[@JeppeEngell]

Doing Contrafactual reflections on elite Crossfit is fun, but there are so many factors that plays a part including training, recovery, nutrition, mental preparation, and the unique challenges posed by each year's programming as you mentioned - and with both in field at the same time, that might have changed Castros programming yet again.

[@JuanaLove6931]

As always, great video!! Hope Alexis is on a good path to recovery. Been wondering about her. All personal so no worries. Just really hoping for the best recovery for her. Thanks for the content. ❤

[@besteverskin]

Everything is going as well as it could be. Hiller and I are up in MN until my 2 week post op appt then heading home! There’s not much else to do in a hotel besides sit and recover so all is going good! Thank you 🥰🥰🩷🩷

[@davidboyle9732]

1) rich's ability to compete is phenomenal 2) it tends to be ignored that fraser was on track to be an international/olympic caliber athlete. you can't replicate that level of physical/ mental training. 3) fraser's blown out knee matches rich's bone on bone knee 4) rich's killer mentality definitely could've led him to win the games this year no doubt 5) i don't want to know which can beat which at this point, i want everybody else to up their mental game because nobody else can compete mentally with either fraser or froning. 6) thank you for creating content, not just fluff sandwiches

[@Bern1808]

I would never bet against Rich. At his physical and mental level, what he expects of himself and is willing to sacrifice (-- all other aspects of his life), if uninjured, he'll always be awfully hard to beat.

[@passleycraig]

This video is very interesting. It would be cool if it continued on as a group discussion with JR, John, Taylor, Tyler, Brian(s)…. Etc. Father Time is a reality. Rich has damage (prior injuries) and each year his body ages. My guess is …Rich podiums each year he decides to compete until he decides not compete.

[@Scoupe17]

Just ran into you at the elevator, keep doing these videos, love the content!

[@yogitina]

You got me with the "what is murph" - "don't let me leave Murph" clip 🤣🤣

[@DrMattMurphy]

I think you’re spot on. I was thinking about this recently too. I think if froning had continued he wins 2015,16 then we see a legendary 5 year back and forth between Fraser/froning but wasn’t to be. Would’ve been fun.

[@tj5779]

Nobody had won 3 CF games titles let alone 4 up until that point. Froning was thinking about retiring after 2013 but decided to do one more year. You're not considering the mental toll that it takes on you. Rich going team was the best thing he could've done for the sport and probably for himself.

[@DrMattMurphy]

@@tj5779 not sure i agree, i did consider it and if you paid attention back then Froning retired because they adopted a kid, hindsight 20/20 I think he realizes he could've kept going as he's stated constantly that team took more time and mental toughness. I think a Froning vs Fraser for 3 more years would've been better for the sport. I think Crossfit missed out on capitalizing on team popularity while he was doing it.

[@tj5779]

@@DrMattMurphy Rich has also stated frequently that he enjoys being on a team rather then just himself. He's been competing in CF for 13 years now and has spent the majority of it on a team. Also the prize money for team is a fraction of that for individual. U really think he would've competed as an individual for 8 more years making 25k? Lol please.

[@ramblr5900]

Hiller you look so good with that camera, whats your set up?

[@hillerfit]

20mm on Sony a7s3

[@ramblr5900]

@@hillerfit going to save money get this one for the ASTRO pics. Milky Way and stars pics oh my!

[@murph3744]

How would Sam Dancer stack up? Heard he maybe going back to individual next year.

[@BrandonPeraltaSb]

We need more content like this

[@gorfimus]

This was a fun thought experiment! Someone needs to crunch the numbers and figure out how the rest of the field wouldve shifted with a hypothetical Froning. How many times would Froning have worn the leader jersey? Would he still beat out Adler?

[@runmyrace7241]

Great job Hiller

[@Bethune_Groundstaff]

2:09 a pic of him drinking a NA beer during this statement is somewhat comedy 😂. Best flavor

[@jamaanders1817]

after watching Froning get mad and attack that workout in the year he almost lost, he's unbeatable. Unbeatable over a course of events and the way Sundays are always set up.

[@danielevans4672]

When is strict pull ups coming????

[@Slater417]

Hiller, you da man 🦇🦇🦇

[@jlynnyay]

Omgoodness my brain hurts after this analysis. But I do like 1) Michael’s “NO!” 2) OG Pig Flip footage and you know it’s a legit video when 3) Snoop weighs in!! Love it ❤ Hiller Froning ALWAYS wins!

[@bobselmayer6913]

Loved the post Andrew. Never bet against the goat. He is Rich Froning Jr.

[@Educator4Him]

Hiller is the Chael Sonnen of crossfit podcasting…. And I can think of no greater compliment.

[@ashleyharper584]

Yep, agree! 🐐

[@dvdjks]

I think it would depend on what the final “test” is.

[@animatedshockwave4796]

What people forget about Froning is that he retired from individual competition when he did so he could be more present for his kids. He dialed his training back and he is still as fit as he is. He personally trains with his team members and that is “dialed back” for him. I’m not certain Frasier wins 2016 if Froning is still at it. I do think Frasier wins 17-20. The question about this year, though, is interesting. A 36 year old body doesn’t recover the same way a 30 or 25 year old body recovers. I agree that he podiums for sure, but I’m not certain he wins.

[@jerrydelgatto7999]

If Rich competes does Roman still break his foot? Maybe not. If he doesn’t, that definitely changes the rest of the standing

[@split_the_bill]

Rich should just come back to individual for one more year next year. Everybody (or most) would understand if he did not win, or even qualify. IMO there would be no pressure. It would just be good for the community to watch. Kind of like Tiger Woods still playing Golf.

[@patricklang7162]

I think peak Fraser and Froning would have made the rest of the field look like they were all in a different competition. Watching the games this year just seemed so different

[@MRBarton369]

Froning is still an active crossfitter. And he IS the Goat, and should be CF Logo. I said it throughout the games that Garrard or Froning Could have won this year. These events would have been great for both guys IF they were healthy at the times of the Games. Great video fella

[@joshuaaaronkoenig]

Look at Parkers lane on the sled. Gave more than one person issues more than what seems normal

[@LanceXBT]

although he is old the competition in crossfit games was always on a lower level since. fraser and fronning were in an own league.

[@bw6228]

Love Rich. He's one of the best if not the best of all-time but he himself has said, to Hiller in fact, that he could compete at the elite level for a couple of events but then recovery would be the issue. Can't outperform age.

[@Olott3179]

Froning is the Micheal Jordan of CrossFit. I wasn’t even into CrossFit and knew who he was, that speaks to how dominant he was.

[@nylonstringninja]

I have no doubts as to his ability and fitness, but I wonder about his ability to absorb damage over the competition and recover enough to make it through the entire thing. One thing is for sure its not like he slowed down or anything. I would love to settle the argument by having him compete but I respect the fact that at this point in his life that although he trains like he's going to compete, he enjoys it knowing he isn't committed to competing and can freely change his schedule and mental focus around to his family and businesses and other interests if he wants. You never know maybe we will get lucky and one day he'll just suddenly wake up hungry to get out there one more time before its definitely too late.

[@kenneth1559]

Well done!

[@Fergyshow]

Brian Spin and his brain trust should create an algorithm that shows how Rich would place at any comp. Call it WWFP

[@JuanaLove6931]

Love the Castro entro!!

[@BananaDanceMan]

Fraser stopped competing and "lost all his muscle mass". As a PED user, Mr. Hiller, what do you think?

[@judeyyudkin3183]

He lost muscle mass due to training for Leadville.

[@BananaDanceMan]

@@judeyyudkin3183 Mat Fraser trained for Leadville??

[@christytaylor6395]

​@@judeyyudkin3183Froning trained for Leadville & didnt lose muscle.

[@naarc9116]

Would love to see this with Tia this year!

[@Kyjo2024]

Lot of shade thrown at matt

[@kimbertolasi-may5121]

Fun video! I can tell you that the games were not the same without him competing in some fashion this year, so it was fun to pretend for 20 minutes. Thank you!

[@jdbaiocco1]

This is next level analysis. i put my money on Hiller to pick the rogue winner over any of those other hacks like Spin, Texass, B Friendly, etc

[@takforce06]

Rich is another level of human. He is Mr. CrossFit.

[@Sam.Valenzuela]

9:05 I heard Chase Ingram call you out on the sevan podcast for saying melody not medley 😂

[@jmk261]

I remember fraser said that he wasn't even interested in doing the 2020 games but I think went for it anyway. Seems to me he was just done with the competition lifestyle that was required for him to compete. Which fair, nothing wrong with that. Love it

[@joshprice32000]

It would be AMAZING if Rich came back one more time to compete as an individual

[@ChetLeeKowalski]

This needed to be done. 💪🏼🦇🫶🏼

[@thezelosgames]

This was fun

[@a1ace1991]

Good, positive, interesting video. Nice job!

[@ronsutton7614]

Love this video

[@electrickq]

Why can’t we find a good sponsor and make a show match events? Imagine 1 day competition with 4-5 events - with Mat, Rich and all top dogs

[@isbelsmart5773]

I agree with you hiller...Rich only didn't stop trained he went on to compete in teams...so given his ability to still win in teams for six years if he had decided to stay individuals he might have won maybe four of the eight years you counted...just my opinion

[@sheyennerivercrossfit471]

Great video, can you do Tia next? How about Ricky?

[@josephroskop6770]

I think the biggest travesty in CF was not being able to see peak Froning v peak Fraser

[@rickyhuyser7587]

Matt needs to compete gain to simply proof his programming works!!!

[@lamppostofficeautomations4117]

Uh why is Tola not competing as an individual?!

[@jonathanlane7370]

Interesting thoughts and topic. It would be interesting to see rich and this field go head to head because he would have less people at his affiliate. Maybe that would give him more of an advantage

[@Triguys1]

I firmly believe that Froning wouldn't have won any year that Fraser won. He probably would've taken 2015 though. I also believe that if Fraser were still training, he would have taken 2021, 2022, and 2023.

[@yourfitrealtorrr]

What’s Rich doing?

[@brysondelmonte1431]

Think Froning def beats Fraser in 2015 along with Ben Smith but after that i just dont think theres a case for Froning ever beating him again (assuming Fraser still takes it personally and changes his training, nutrition, etc)

[@RogueCylon]

Yep, pretty much 💯 there. It’s why Froning never liked going head to head afterwards.

[@J_Wolfe86]

I agree, he’s the 🐐 IMO but I also think he knew it was time to get out.

[@EvskiiCF]

​@@RogueCylondumb comment. Has nothing to do with why rich left individual lol

[@rickybieszki8733]

3 minutes in. Already love this 😂

[@hillerfit]

🤙🫡😊

[@seanlenderman988]

I think Froning at 36 would be like Michael Jordan with the Hornets, assuming that he stayed the indy route or maybe a couple of team years and back to indy and his body had continued to be punished through training

[@jahskido06]

Can you make a video on whether Ricky would have won this year's Crossfit games, if he was healthy. Sevian did something similar when he had RIcky on his podcast, in a very "scientific" manner..lol God Bless Sevian.

[@andrebrits7763]

Spot on...Rich Would have won the 2023 games..

[@kerikettle7820]

As you age your ability to recover diminishes. While Froning could win some events ("tests"), his recovery would be worse than Adler's, and that impact of that would show up clearly on Sunday.

[@christhomas7975]

Andrew you have hair transplants?

[@EvskiiCF]

A motivated Froning wins the games this year 100%

[@scott-richardson]

Every year, I secretly hold out hope that Rich will decide to compete just one more time. It would be such a ride for all us Froning fans to experience. Whether he won the games or not, it would still be awesome to see him give it one last shot. I recall at 37/38, feeling pretty strong and fit. Recovery starts to get harder in your 40's but not impossible to maintain high volume.

[@CruJones81]

Would’ve been out or hobbled with injury before event 5.

[@ARMANDMCGEE]

You even said it yourself, now since Dave is back most of the CrossFit workouts are tailored to Froning. He’s great, but if you change up the programming is he still as dominating as you want him to be?

[@davidarsenault898]

Right now the games are a battle between a lot of people who never came within 200 points of Fraser. Other than Roman it's all people that never even gave him scare sans 2019.

[@makyd1983]

It’s crazy to think that Rich was performing at that level when he was not competing as an individual. Imagine him focused on winning the whole thing again! I bet he wouldn’t have been able to stay as healthy the whole time, but man he would have been in Fraser’s head for sure.. no one will know for sure, but the fact that we are even debating this makes Froning that incredible imo.

[@MaxandTheoShow]

Hard to say he wouldn't have won, however, I look how his program athletes did.

[@rippedgli]

I wish rich would compete just one more time

[@willbutler6261]

Would his body be able to handle the sorness and onslaught of the volume? Recovery just becomes harder at his age. He's a freak of course so who knows. That's why it's fun to speculate. I think he would've kept up with the field for 3/4s of the time and then it would have hit him like a ton of bricks. I love the guy, but she does matter. I think vulner is what, 32?? He did great, add 4 more to that and it's a different beast.

[@paxlie]

Here is the one thing I think you are wrong in this video, because otherwise, excellent video. I think if Froning would be active in the years Fraser won it would have pushed both of them to insane limits. Fraser already said he wouldn't touch a knife in prep for the games since he might get injured. Imagine if he got pushed because a very competitive Froning would be around. It would have been so much fun and they would push each other to the insanity.

[@Fergyshow]

Froning did win the few times they went head-to-head but, in fairness, Mat was early in his career. Interesting indeed.

[@christytaylor6395]

​@@FergyshowFroning prepared for his level of competition. He would have prepared for Mat. Plus, both benefited from Hinshaw's training at the same time.

[@ashanfernando100]

I Dont know this might sounds crazy if Rich wants to win individual he will win somehow and if he wants to win team still he will win true what his father was telling about him he has that winning gear nobody has

[@dannyl3858]

Rich could be top 5, but he would be hard pressed to win in 2023. His body can't recover like the young bucks

[@ronsutton7614]

Rich rarely went 100%, he would have had to go 100% a lot more in the past few years to win, but he would’ve done it

[@kyleverkouteren8549]

Great video, but outside factor that Roman didn't get hurt, he would have beat Rich..but it would have been close

[@ngaugeblading9690]

Biologically I don't think Froning has it in him as he would be up against people 10+ years younger than him. Psychologically I don't think he would compete again because he would be scared of losing and losing his Mr CrossFit credibility. In my opinion he partly "retired" because around that time CrossFit was getting very serious. People were coming through who had years of highly coached sports backgrounds (eg Oly weightlifting, gymnastics, running) or getting coaches from those sports or people who have been doing CrossFit since they were kids. Froning was great but he is from a different era

[@DavidWied]

I did my own unbias scoring and Fraser beat Froning by 212 points💁🏻‍♂️

[@birgittamattson6154]

If fronning would have stayed individual he would have ended up broken after 2017. He would have won 2015 but I think Frazier still wins 5 starting in 2016 and Rich’s knee super arthritic and 2023 needs knee replacement

[@carlosruiz7240]

Why is your whoop so tight? Lol

[@keithgordonca]

without even getting into the Fraser vs Froning thing, I think we can all agree 2015 was Rich's for the taking. Smith and Fraser were good, but not great, that year. Give Fraser his 5, fine. But then we have Justin. Another good, consistent athlete. World Class, but still, Rich just isn't going down to anyone but peak Fraser. Rich gets 8, counting 2023 to Fraser's 5. Plus, I'm tired of those team gold medals being dismissed. You know how hard it is to put together a team of 4-6 very different athletes, personalties and get them to function as a cohesive, well-oiled machine? If anything, those golds might have been harder to achieve, particularly with the turnover factored in. Rich barely had the same team mates multiple years because of the pressure and intensity of training to win every year.

[@PeteJunior2011]

If my grandma had wheels she’d be a bike.

[@MD-lb1oz]

Froning would have won 2015, Fraser would have won 2021 and 2022.

[@the_real_joelkelley]

🔥 🔥 🔥

[@ramblr5900]

Goat father of goat and teammate of goat

[@ramblr5900]

Samuel C is a good comp for Fronning

[@hillerfit]

@@ramblr5900like that??

[@hillerfit]

@@ramblr5900on many thing agreed

[@serhazor]

Well... hard not to notice the bias here considering your previous videos, also don't forget that Fraser already had the Ben&Jerry holiday after his weightlifting career and before he gave that CrossFit thing a try. What they both have in common is that mental switch that the usual mortals like us don't have so its hard to accurately speculate what actually would happen should they both decide to go individual again. It is, however, interesting to listen to thought process. By the way, how do we know that Rich did not go to teams just to not compete with Matt? After all, Rich did say that he would not go to the Games if not for a win which seemed like he was not interested in other podium places. Also, you are discounting Froning's shoulder issue, but factoring in Fraser's knee injury (we don't know how bad both of those were). Saying that, Froning had much more 1st place wins than Fraser and I can't say that team workouts are in any way easier so definitely Froning is the GOAT in that regard.

[@christytaylor6395]

He became a father and wanted to be present for his child a line of thinking even Fraser agrees with as Fraser wouldnt even get married until after he stopped competing

[@serhazor]

@@christytaylor6395 you mean that team prep doesn't take that much time so one can spend time with a family?

[@christytaylor6395]

@@serhazor he wasnt as selfish with his training. Did it completely differently. Didnt disappear at night to get more training done in his basement. He's talked about the differences a lot. His kids come with him all the time now. Like I said. Even Fraser talked about the selfishness of individual training & how he wouldnt marry until it was over.

[@serhazor]

@@christytaylor6395 so... taking all that into consideration, who would win? :-)

[@christytaylor6395]

@@serhazor I think it would have been really fun to have watched them compete against each other. Both men got a lot of Hinshaw's training.

[@JuanaLove6931]

Woo, wait! This year's programming was also considered RG friendly. Neither were there so what about if Ricky was also the. Hence not discounting Froning but that is another thought. I do believe Froning has a win or die in his soul. That counts for 100 extra points easily. You see it. Horvath has it, Tia has it. But you get my point. Continuing....

[@jadenharman4048]

Doesn’t seem like he would of beat Ricky if you compare to Sevan’s podcast 🤔😬