37 - Model railroad turnouts explained and compared. Atlas, Peco, Walthers & Micro Engineering

[@socalscalemodels]

Great video and description of the turnouts. I use all peco's on my layout. I love the spring action and that fits in with my manual switching layout.

[@DubaiTrains]

Cool. What turnout # do you use / recommend for modern 80ft cars?

[@mysticrailroad]

what a tremendous video. big thumbs up!

[@DubaiTrains]

Keep on train'ing!

[@philipsmeeton]

Having modelled for years I now only use KATO turnouts. They are completely reliable, ready ballasted and have a built in motor. They are code 83 and are easily merged realitically into a landscape with skilful ballasting. There are good videos on KZbin on how to ballast KATO track. PECO turnouts are electrically unreliable, the motors are a pain to mount and ballasting is a nightmare. Any other code 83 track can be easily fitted to Kato track- just remove the KATO track coupler and replace it with a normal rail joiner. If you want curved turnouts or a double crossover Walthers Sinohara code 83 is the way to go.

[@DubaiTrains]

Sectional track definitively has it's benefits.

[@royreynolds108]

Where the wheel flanges cross a rail, it must do so with a flangeway which means a frog. Turnouts are composed of 2 movable point rails with the throwbar, 1 frog, and the rail to connect everything. Number 2 and 2.5 turnouts along with No 3's & 4's are usually used in mining and other narrow gauge tracks. For model railroads, No 4, 5, 6, & 8 are the predominant sizes to use the least room. Full-size railroads start at about No 7 and predominantly No 8 for industry while No 10 and larger in the mainline depending on the speeds needed to be taken on the divergent side. Generally any number of 24 or 30 will have movable points for the frog nose and will not need flange guard rails but are meant for high-speed traffic. The IC had a No 5 136RE out of the mainline in Monroe, LA because it dated back to when the line was built to serve cotton warehouses and not enough room to install a larger turnout in the location. Crossings are labeled by the angle between the tracks or the angle and radii or the curve(s) and will have 4 frogs-2 point & 2 wing; the situation where all 4 frogs are the same is a 90 degree angle. Special trackwork is a mix of the two. A crossover is either a facing point or a trailing point. A crossover placed between 2 tracks and within the same length is a double crossover needing a crossing where the crossover tracks intersect(more expense and more upkeep). The last ones are single slip and double slip turnouts to be used in very tight places to provide the most variability to train movement. These are used mostly in Europe and Japan. They are used mostly in terminals in the Northeast, Chicago, and other locations with lots of trains and traffic with cramped space. They are numbered by the turnouts and the points are all within the length of the point crossing frogs. Depending on the history and speed needed, they will be No 8 to 12. Under a lot of traffic, they will be remotely controlled by a tower or interlocking within that plant. For those who model dual-gauge trackwork, sketch out on paper how the tracks are to go; whether the common rail is left or right, turnouts are facing point or trailing point, and which gauge does not diverge. When laying out a wye or loop, the common rail will switch sides just as polarity does so to alleviate the problem a "draw" can be inserted somewhere on the wye or loop to change the sides of the common rail and with no moving parts. The larger gauge is laid on-gauge or snug straight through while the smaller gauge has a point laid slightly over flangeway width away from the running rail with the opposite rail gauged wide with a flangeway guard laid snug to bring the wheels away from the common running rail. The other end of the "draw" is laid out in mirror image. The angles and gauge changes need to be carefully done to make it work well. The D&RGW had several around Antonito and Alamosa, CO when they had dual-gauge trackage there. I had drawn all of the possible combinations including the "draw" and it was in one of the old issues of LIVE STEAM years ago. I give this to try to help those interested in what is usable and where to help make the modeling a little more realistic.

[@DubaiTrains]

Hi Roy, thank you for the in depth add-on.

[@royreynolds108]

@@DubaiTrains I spent over 20 years in railroad track design, maintenance, construction, inspection, and operation. Most people don't seem to grasp what goes into the track to carry the trains successfully. As modellers, we have to compress the dimensions to get even a small amount we want into a layout without looking too toyish.

[@mpeterll]

A brand you didn't mention is Fast-tracks. There are enough people making them to order (self-included) that they can be considered a ready-built option if a modeler doesn't want to build them himself. Here are a few areas where they beat all other brands hands-down: 1. Choice; 9 sizes of straight turnout, 6 wyes, over 20 curved options and many slips & crossings. If you want to maximize your layout resign flexibility, they will give you far more options and allow you to fit more railroad into any given space than any other brand. 2. Appearance; although they lack spike detail (which is pretty much invisible at normal viewing distance), they have far better-proportioned switch rails than any of the brands you reviewed. That is far and away a bigger contributor to realism (or lack of it) than any of the finer details molded into the plastic of the commercial brands. 3. Cost; If you want a lot of turnouts the same, you can buy the jig and build them yourself at a fraction of the cost of commercial turnouts. If you need a variety for your railroad, build the common sizes and buy the odd sizes ready-built. The overall cost is likely to still be less than the same number of turnouts from any other source. 4. Durability; although at first glance, fast-tracks turnouts are easier to break than PECO or Walthers if they are handled roughly, the critical point is this. . . FT are soldered together, making them easy to repair in situ if they are damaged. All other brands are mainly plastic that cannot effectively be repaired. In most cases, if a plastic turnout is damaged, it is necessary to cut it out completely and replace the whole thing - quite a major operation if the track is already ballasted. While I don't regard Fast-tracks as the last word in turnouts by any means, there are some reasons why they should certainly be considered by model railroaders.

[@DubaiTrains]

Hi Peter, Thanks for your addition. I have seen your videos where you use them. I am yet to dive into the world of hand laid track and turnouts. The number of curved turnouts you mention is impressive. For my next layout i will be needing a few so i will definatly have a look.

[@mpeterll]

@@DubaiTrains Hand-building turnouts is a very satisfying aspect of the hobby that can also save a lot of money. It's also easier than most people think - especially with jigs. With most of the larger layouts that I design for clients, I typically end up with around 80% of the turnouts being of four standard sizes, so I typically suggest that the client build those sizes and purchase the remainder. The overall cost is usually equivalent to the same number of PECO turnouts (the least expensive brand) but it's a much better railroad and he gets the satisfaction of having build more of it himself.

[@DubaiTrains]

The main reason for me to make my turnouts is to create a more flowing trackplan. Hand laid layouts often seem tl flow better. It also opens a lot of creative doors when planning a layout. But I don't to tell you that 😉.

[@just4funTrains]

Great video!! I really like the ladder system from ME, but disponibility and price are a big problem. In my current layout I only have Atlas, but the next one I will use PECO or ME. thanks for the tips

[@DubaiTrains]

Good to hear it was helpful! ME is for sales, if you buy them you can get free turnouts ;-)

[@MrChappy39]

When I read about the mistakes prospective model railroaders make; it is to purchase the Atlas product. There is a distinct lack of product control - inconsistent manufacturing. Specifically in what I have to contend with: the spacing of the guard rail and the frog in general. So, when the wallet permits, I will changeover to Peco.

[@DubaiTrains]

I tend to agree when it comes to turnouts. The Atlas flex track is just fine in my opinion.

[@alessiofs88]

Very nice video! I'm also looking forward to see how the Peco Unifrog behave, especially for slow speed shunting operation

[@DubaiTrains]

I expect it to be similar. It is predominantly the wiring that has changes, not the geometrics or components.

[@goupigoupi6953]

I'm in the process of replacing the Atlas turnouts with Peco (code 83 insulfrog both). I really loved the turnkey concept with Atlas, and the price, but there's just too much derailment.

[@Christiane069]

Do you find the curved turn put reliable or not? Many said that it is best to avoid them!

[@DubaiTrains]

I find they work fine. I have two of them. If your engines and rolling stock are all nicely tuned, there should not be any issues.

[@Christiane069]

OK, thanks for the feedback.@@DubaiTrains

[@w.rustylane5650]

What about Shinohara (sp?)? Cheers from eastern TN

[@DubaiTrains]

If I am not mistaken, shonohara is all absorbed by Walthers and SH is no longer made.

[@em-pinmanspandemoniumpinba4193]

Thanks for a Great video, maybe do an update in the near future, but this time include Atlas Customline Turnouts. The regular Atlas Turnouts of old are not reliable or good looking as stated by many including yourself, especially with their ugly next to turnout switch machines which I had when I was a kid. Currently I only use Atlas Customline Turnouts #8, #6, Curved turnouts, and Wye's and have never had derailment or electrical issues using them straight out of the box. All my Turnouts use Caboose Industries manual switches which are awesome and help make Atlas Turnouts reliable IMO. Actually my whole railroad uses pretty much all Atlas Code 83 rail, great stuff including the 3' flex track sections. If I had to build another model railroad would I switch brands? No, why, it works for me, your mileage may vary. LOL! Cheers! 😀

[@DubaiTrains]

Thanks EM, Good to know the Atlas custom line might have become an alternative. There is nothing worse than derailment on your turnouts! I have used a few walthers turnouts where my go to peco didn't have a solution.

[@MarkInLA]

You left out the reason for the switch's number !! Where the diverging route inner rail is one inch or unit out from the inner thru route rail, the distance out from the point of the frog to where they are one inch/unit apart is the number..I.E. If the 2 inside rails are 1 inch apart AT 8 inches out, it's a No.8 switch.. If one inch apart at 5 inches out it's a No. 5....etc, etc.. 7:27 They are 'crossings' or 'diamonds', not 'crossovers'. Crossovers are where trains 'cross over' to a parallel track via 2 switches. A 'double crossover' has 4 switches with a 'crossing' or 'diamond' in the middle. Also, 7:54, well designed frog flangeways do not, and should not lift the wheel up over a "bump" IE. The flange can roll atop the frog 'floor' but should not be lifted (unless wheel/wheels have the older style overly deep flanges). You keep saying 'track' where you should be saying 'rail'... If you're going to teach, get your RR details and nomenclature correct and complete first...

[@DubaiTrains]

Hi Mark, thanks for clearing up these technicalities.

[@isaacfabris3179]

Frog # actually is actually only a fraction of the frog angle -- that is, a #5 frog is 5 times as long as it's diverging width. In other words, think of it as a right-triangle that's 1 unit wide, and 5 units tall. As such, frog # is not directly proportional to total turnout length nor curve radii -- both of which vary between turnout models/brands, despite being the same frog #. For example, a #8 turnout is not necessarily twice as long as a #4.

[@DubaiTrains]

Hi Isaac. Thats correct. Thanks for the addition.

[@akarinnnnnn]

Late to the party but using Walthers as a measure for availability is an odd choice. I have never seen a product on that page that wasn't significantly cheaper elsewhere. My dad and grandpop got me into model railroading. They both, despite being subscribed to Model Railroader for decades, had a very narrow view on model railroading. To them Atlas was the only brand of track - and all of their layouts were plagued with issues. It's kind of sad because I am no over 30 and actually running trains was rare. Since they usually handled track building I never looked into things myself. But I eventually really got into railroading and model railroading and started looking things up because I started working on an HO layout with my dad. I tried to warn him about Atlas switches, but he shrugged them. It took my 4-6-2 derailing on every snap switch to convince him that snap switches are horrible, but the rest of the layout is still stuck with Atlas switches - though I did buy a few PECO turnouts for areas I intend to do switching in. The layout hasn't been touched in over a year though so it is very much unfinished and I'm currently spending my time on projects that I can use in future layouts.

[@DubaiTrains]

Welcome to the party! Choosing the right turnouts is key for the enjoyment of the hobby. Just start your own layout, then you can choose whatever you want ;)

[@fredpryde8555]

i been told peco best for yards shunting thank you for info

[@BorderTerrier-yk2hw]

Excellent video: clear explanation of polarity considerations. You have to be well heeled to afford Peco UniFrogs!

[@DubaiTrains]

Thanks. If using peco turnouts doesn't fit your budget, I would suggest to still use peco turnouts but to cut the number of turnouts to compensate. I would rather have fewer good working turnouts the several problematic ones.

[@davepanichelle1478]

It’s a shame you gave the Micro Engineering turnouts such a brush off. They are not only the most detailed but also are set up for DCC without any alterations. They are delicate but that’s because the dimensions are correct. I think their only drawback is that they only come in a #6. ( #5 in their ladder track arrangement.) Hopefully they will make more sizes in the future. In the mean time, I’ve taken to making my own #8s and #10s with Fast Tracks gigs. Not a cheap proposition but economical in the long run if you need lots of turnouts.

[@DubaiTrains]

They are very detailed! Personally I would like to see more turnout variety in code 70.

[@rcrabb2494]

ASSUME HO

[@dundasjunctionmodelr.r-jam8267]

Excellent video, I am using the new Walthers code 83 turnouts on my new layout

[@DubaiTrains]

Thanks. I am using the walthers curved turnouts. The new walthers look good.

[@abdullahabu1252]

Hi, I am very interested in your show, so I am planning to build up a staging area in my layout HO Scale size 8X4 feet by using the DCC System to run my train . Thank you and have nice happy new year 2022.

[@DubaiTrains]

Happy new year! Keep us posted on the progress.

[@abdullahabu1252]

@@DubaiTrains I am from SAUDI ARABIA, and I am very interested in railroad train model show and like to know what is mean the Dubai Trains? Thank you

[@nedmerrill5705]

I'm in N scale, and I lay my own turnouts. It's a little tedious but much cheaper.

[@DubaiTrains]

Hi Ned, Yes that will save some bucks.

[@LMR78]

This was such a helpful video! Thanks for sharing!

[@DubaiTrains]

Welcome LMR.

[@xcrisso]

Hi sir would be nice to see one of these videos with N scale

[@DubaiTrains]

Hi Henrik, For N scale, peco code 55 and kato unitrack are very popular. There are definitely a lot of differences between those two. I would say syary woth these two and it will become clear what will work for you.

[@crusty3260]

I don't mean to be confrontational but I am wondering if you mean track feeders when you refer to jumpers? I'm new to wiring and having a hard time keeping up with all the terminology.

[@DubaiTrains]

Hi! No worries all questions are good. Let me try to explain my understanding of jumpers and feeders. Jumpers, in this context, are an electrical connection between two pieces of track. At 1:22 when we look at the back of the turnout you see there are metal 'strips' that connect the two positive tracks with one and each-other. You see the same at 4:35. These later ones can be removed it you do not want the 'jumper' functionality. Feeders are wires that connect a piece or track to the power source. Either direct to a command station / transformer on an oval loop (with perhaps sectional easy connect track) or to a bus wire on a elaborate layout. Hope this helps!

[@royreynolds108]

Besides watching videos, reading model railroading magazines; I would suggest you get at least one book covering layout wiring which will help answer some of your questions and as a reference when you need a refresher.

[@DubaiTrains]

@@royreynolds108 Great tip. I have a lot of books but I must admit wiring is not my favorite topic!

[@dryheat6907]

Great video and your information is very timely for me and you've got a new subscriber. I'm now working my way through all your videos. After decades of "armchair" model railroading I've finally got the time and space to get moving, and I'm planning a "crawl, walk, run" approach, first starting with a small shelf layout to practice basic skills, then a more complex yard layout for switching, finally (hopefully) incorporating that yard into a full layout. But after all my reading over the years I want to start out with the right track and switches from the start. I've already settled on Code 83 flex track but the competing Micro Engineering and Peco products, and their advocates, have kept me undecided. Your video helps a great deal and confirms what I've been concluding on Peco: good quality plus a much bigger selection of switches and complex track pieces for my big yard someday (including a diamond crossing and maybe a double slip switch). Two questions: 1. Do you have a preference for realistic flex track as well using your same criteria as here for turnouts? And 2. I am finding it very difficult to find a reliable on-line source (no good local hobby shop) for either Peco or ME track and switches...so many seem to be backordered. Since I've been "reading", not shopping, for all this time, I'm not sure if that has been the sad state of realistic high quality model RR track and switches all along, or if it is COVID-related with suppliers? Clearly demand outstrips supply right now. Thanks again and I look forward to your continuing video updates!

[@DubaiTrains]

Glad it helps! There is nothing wrong with the armchair approach! 1. For the flex I am using Atlas for now. This in inherently different from ME flex track as that does not 'snap' back into place as where Atlas track does want to bounce back to straight. Keep that in mind as both have their advantages. ME have pre-weathered flex track. I have not seen this yet so i can not judge. If it looks as detailed and good as the turnouts than I will use their flex track. I would suggest to just order one from each. 2. The batch production of turnouts was also an issue before the pandemic. At least in the last 5 years or so. I do not really understand this as turnouts are the bread and butter for many manufacturers. I would just keep an eye out. I use modeltrainstuff.com 3. Do you have a dedicated space and / or trackplan already? I can assist in making one. As per your crawl, walk, run idea.

[@dryheat6907]

@@DubaiTrains Thanks "Dubai"...I'll check Atlas track. My biggest "passion" (OK, so far) in model railroading is detailed, prototypical track work properly weathered. I've seen pictures of Peco's "US" mainline code 83 track that seems to use double spikes on each side of each tie/tie plate rather than one plastic clip. I *think* I will like that best but have now ordered some to see for myself. Still looking for a supplier of less than 25 or so 3' lengths of ME track at a time! Thanks for the link to modeltrainstuff.com, I've been there a while ago but will recheck. Odd behavior for suppliers, understand a business shutting down (Shinohara) but sustained demand should keep suppliers expanding. But glad to know our hobby is a robust one! No dedicated space yet, but in the works. Will do "crawl" with a 6' or so plank style effort as recommended in an article in last August's Model Railroader ("All You Need to Know in Four Square Feet"), maybe 2 tracks and 2 turnouts to practice everything basic even some scenery. Just a working pallet--rip it up if I screw it up and try again. I already have that space dedicated. The "walk" stage (switching yard) and "run" stage (full layout) will come with the addition of a house addition hopefully coming later this summer. I know you do the layout design work commercially, not sure if I need help with it yet but I will definitely keep you in mind should I get hung up. Thanks again! Mike

[@bryceblazegamingyt9741]

Why would you use electrofrog?

[@DubaiTrains]

In a nutshell, because they are mechanically very reliable. No derailment and built solid. And you can easily hardwire every stretch of track. To create more redundancy in electrical continuity. I.e. trains that keep on running smooth.

[@CATdozerboy12]

Bob Ross of model trains

[@DubaiTrains]

😂😂. Ill take that as s complement!

[@zyroxiot9417]

Great, thanks from 🇧🇷

[@DubaiTrains]

My pleasure! Thanks for watching.

[@chickenbites8877]

Is this for DC?

[@DubaiTrains]

Hi CB, possibly. But I made the video solely with DCC in mind. Hence I searched for DCC friendly or ready turnouts.