3D Printing PETG-CF at 290°C , what will be the layer adhesion in that case?

[@marty4286]

Don't worry professor, I hate the KZbin algorithm more than the KZbin algorithm hates your channel. I always recommend you to people who have an interest in materials science and 3d printing Thanks for the videos!

[@RaRa-xg7le]

I've wondered if a thermal camera would be able to help in identifying good layer adhesion vs bad layer adhesion. What are your thoughts?

[@MyTechFun]

I am preapring a simple test, where you can print small test object (next to main functional printing) and then you can check if everything is OK with layer adhesion. I never tried to use thermal camera for this. I will keep this in mind. Thx for suggestion.

[@daliasprints9798]

You'd need bonkers high speed. My thermal camera can't catch the extruded material much over 100°C.

[@bett0diaz]

greetings from Amsterdam! thanks for the videos!

[@gcardinal]

Great and informative video as always. Thank you! Suggestion for a feature video: - Layer adhesion in AMS when switching from one spool to the next, same material / identical brand - compared to the ones printed continuously without AMS. Where material change happens a few times in the critical area.

[@nihiltube]

Great video. I loved this. Would love to see a similar video where you optimize layer adhesion by tuning flow and temperature, assuming a perfectly dry filament!

[@stevebailey1682]

Thanks for the video. Very interesting results. I think either of those filaments is a winner!

[@Op68rules]

I love your videos that test the choices we have to make every day when 3D printing. In this case it might be worth mentioning (or testing!) that higher temperatures might result in more air contamination, perhaps especially worrisome with CF.

[@daliasprints9798]

Why air contamination? You shouldn't have bubbling unless it's wet or way over breakdown temp.

[@nihiltube]

Great video, loved to see adhesion peak at 270, I would be curious to know the root cause of why at higher temperature adhesion is actually worse!

[@MyTechFun]

Exactly that I want to investigate. I have several projects in progress, but after that: drying, printing at 270°C with different flow rates (I will have several other objects too, to avoid slowing down due minimal layer printing time).

[@elmexicanoforlive]

The only thing I can think of is it’s so fluid it flows in a laminar fashion and since there is no turbulence the inner parts remains much cooler than the edges. Whereas in lower temps there is enough viscosity to have major turbulence so it gets heated evenly before exiting the nozzle.

[@flyingmanc5376]

​@@MyTechFunI believe it could be caused by some kind of boiling/increasing gas emitting during melting and that causes super small air/gas bubbles inside the extruded filament and it will make it more porous/weaker.

[@daliasprints9798]

If it's over breakdown temp for anything in the filament (including pigments), there could be gasses being produced that bubble and interfere with adhesion.

[@dlmd_97]

Great video! Would love to see testing on 3dxtech carbonX filament. Apparently they feed in the fibers diffrently than most brands and they say it helps with layer adhesion but who knows how much is just marketing.

[@23071976ful]

Good and useful reviews, thank you! It would be interesting to test the strength of PETG-СF in the X-Y direction depending on the layer height. The idea is that maybe a small layer height (for example 0.1) will orient the short СF fibers more in the plane and affect the strength characteristics.

[@rno7177]

The layer adhesion property is ultimately my main issue. Almost all of my prints are practical parts, using all sorts of engineering filaments. I don't rely on manufacturers' data, but rather prefer to do my own tests. Now there too many variables involved. I can print slower and thus let the nozzle spend more time over a given point, better hearing the layer underneath and providing better layer adhesion. But then it means that the layer time increases and thus the layer is not as hot when the next layer is laid on top of it. Then you may think that moving faster and reducing the layer time would be better, but then the nozzle doesn't have enough time to heat up the bottom layer. On top of that, there is the layer height which also has a significant influence on layer adhesion. Considering all the above, I find it nearly impossible to print and test specimens and then propagate the results on other prints I do, which may be larger or smaller, influencing the layer time. In an attempt to compensate for layer time, I print at list 6 vertical specimens at a time. In your case you print only 2, which hardly can simulate real world parts having such a short layer time. Have you considered this?

[@ae6535]

In terms of the drying graph you showed, I think the shape of the graph alone does not indicate how much more moisture you can remove. If you notice, the Tinmorry filament was decreasing in mass at a much smaller increment (approx 0.2g/hour) compared to the Eryone (approx 1g/hour). Given also the fact that the mass of the Tinmorry was higher to begin with, it would seem that the Tinmorry was sufficiently dry. This would be reflected also if both graphs' y-axis were scaled the same. That said, I love your videos and what you do! Please don't stop :)

[@TheLiddokun]

If you decide to investigate print speed vs layer adhestion. Please make sure you also account for layer time. Faster speed will give the previous layer less time to cool down resulting in 'artifically' increased adhesion. Print large or multiple objects.

[@krunolokmer2398]

Thank you :)

[@Liberty4Ever]

I love the data driven experiments. Science!

[@Nici619]

This is one of my favorite channels on KZbin. Could you please try the following: Take a fresh cardboard filament spool out of its packaging. Transfer the filament onto another spool and weigh the empty cardboard spool. Then, dry the cardboard spool and measure its weight again. I suspect that cardboard spools may absorb a lot of moisture.

[@EliteMacFreak]

When I calibrate filaments, I always test going 20-50C higher than the manufacturer recommends--especially with TPU. I always test up to 270C and sometimes over 300C. Generally speaking, going hotter allows you to print faster, as long as you have sufficient cooling to keep pace. When the temperature gets so high that you cannot cool it fast enough the lower layers cannot get below Tg (glass transition temperature) and you start to lose structural integrity and the strength goes down. Final note, please don't use the music.

[@daliasprints9798]

TPU will offgas some nasty shit at 270, but I did need that temp to get a 10 min boat on standard length meltzone.

[@naminiyo1]

drying is crucial for any polymer

[@migueldias1873]

Will check on that eryone filament. Seems to be in the top 10% of the filaments you've tested based on layer adhesion, while having greater temperature resistance than the usuals PLA

[@Javii96]

I’ve been really hoping for a siraya tech PET-CF comparison with bambulabs. I bought two rolls on sale last week and it’s amazing stuff. I printed 9” by 8” very thin shelf brackets on my ender 3 at 300C and they are holding a 4ft long shelf full of heavy plants with zero flex or creep. There was zero warpage too i stood on one of the brackets and it didn’t worry me for one second. Only downfall is the filament is very brittle and can snap easy while printing. I had to loosen my extruder gear to prevent it from snapping.

[@RayLenses]

I'm using Tinmorry for long while 270 is actually sweet spot that i always print at even for their petg GF

[@kaizoor]

3:20 I would say that there is this big difference because the cardboard spool holds also a significant part of moisture. I noticed that I got condensation in my filament dryer only with cardboard spools. It would be interesting to expose two identical rolls of filament to moisture for the same time and then rewind one to a plastic spool and dry both. There I think we will also see that behavior even with the same filament. Or just and plain dry and empty card board spool and see if see a curve that has the same behavior.

[@MyTechFun]

I will try to follow of drying empty spool only. BUT does it make difference for the drying? (only I did a mistake here that I was watching only the difference between 2 measurings). But if I would follow the graph, then I can see, when it is dry.

[@3dprintingguru378]

I had a similar effect regarding higher flow rates or faster print speeds with certain filaments. especially more elastic filaments like PETG, PCTG and nylons had better layer adhesion when printed fast or with higher flow rates. I mostly print with extrudr, fiberlogy, filamentum and 3DJake filaments, recently tried bambu lab PA-GF with similar results.

[@crashingsux]

I have definitely found too long of layer time can ruin layer adhesion. I first noticed the issue with a Bambu printer that was doing color changes and I think the long color change allowed the filament to cool down too much.

[@multimargejta123]

Try testing different flow rates

[@MrHeHim]

CF and GF are insulators, if your print flow is lower IMO you should print at equivalent temperature to "normal" filament at faster speeds/flow. I found "high speed" filaments dont do well at lower speeds because they saturate with heat and the base filament degrades. You can smell High Speed PETG rated at 270c start to smell a little funny when printing at 6mm3s. Would be very interesting to see if somebody makes a filament that changes color permanently at melting temperatures. Specifically to tune nozzle temperatures to more accurately print at projected filament temperature.

[@berlinberlin4246]

If you have the time for it: i like to see a cnc kitchen max flow test, form you on the same printer and the temperatures. Maybe we can see some interesting results form this. (I have done it with an 3d jake neon PETG on my Neptune 4, and it seems i need to reduce the max flow to 3 for the fully melting of the filament, but i must test/check some more things like the possibility of a partly clog)

[@henninghoefer]

As BambuLab is using steel nozzles (with slightly worse heat transfer compared to brass), I always go about 20°C over the recommended temperatures. Maybe that explains your findings?

[@warmesuppe]

Very interesting results! Did you test if abs gets better layer adhesion when the build chamber gets hotter? At least thats my experience. Above 60°C chamber temp the layer adhesion is exceptionally great.

[@Robinn404]

I print Prusament PETG at 270C, it has extremly strong layer adhesion, you should try! Also I use UHF hotend which really helps ensure that even when printing at 20mm3 the filament is not going out colder then 270 or so

[@Robinn404]

I dry it really good and it's in a sealed box with silica, if I leave like 1m sticking out for 1h I can see it starts to cook at 270 aka it picks up water from air, so sealed box + tube to toolhead

[@DurantePT]

I think it could be the drying. I was recently surprised at how much of a difference using fully dried filament makes, even for something which isn't known to be extremely susceptible to moisture like nylon. Might be interesting to do a video like this one, but instead of looking at the impact of print temperature, look at the impact of moisture (e.g. print test objects from older/improperly stored filament as-is, and then with 2, 4, 8, etc. hours of drying).

[@TheLiddokun]

Huh. I think Nylon is the MOST susceptible to moisture. Some can absorb 3% w/w!!

[@DurantePT]

@@TheLiddokun Ah, I worded that poorly. I meant that I saw significant effects even for filaments like PLA which are not known to be affected as much as Nylon.

[@betobeto7903]

Great education! Thanks! Question, what filament do you think would be best for making something as strong as possible for outdoor use?

[@MyTechFun]

ASA is my recommendation for outdoor use. But according to specs on the website, PPA-CF is great too (only I didn't had opportunity to test it outside for the longer period)

[@Boz1211111]

Nice test, seems that there is absolutely no reason to go above 270c for petg

[@MyTechFun]

Yes. In live chat (during premiere) somebody explained to me, that over 270°C PETG starts to degrade, that's why it was weaker on 290°C.

[@Cedric.landes]

Nice !!! very intresting video !!

[@AM-jw1lo]

You did a video on vacuum storage bags, yet you didn't do a scale there, since you mention your present container still allows moisture gain, why not do a new video on the bags and this time do a scale. I saw one person put a desicant pad inside and it turned blue, so you could add that as a variable. A video with numbers of when the roll arrives and sitting in the open, i don't really think a gain of a gram is a problem. At least your video got me thinking of what i need to do as a test, myself.

[@Caaalloffduttty]

Ich denke die Pappspule wírd viel Feuchtigkeit verloren haben.

[@3dPrintingMillennial]

Maybe the cf strands were more affected by gravity with the higher temps. Perhaps the lower viscosity allowed the strands to orient themselves to a more vertical position while cooling. Check under the microscope please

[@81GTUN4]

I’ve had issues with layer adhesion with eryone cfpetg vs my preferred vendor. Very brittle.

[@ScytheNoire]

PETG-CF - Dry and print at 270 C :)

[@mikhaildavidenko3841]

It sounds like you might be adjusting too many settings at once, like drying and flow. For the next tests, how about focusing on making one change at a time? It could make it easier to pinpoint what’s working best! 😊

[@MyTechFun]

No, in this video (testing) the only thing what was changed was the print temperature. That data at the end of results is just from the main review videos for these filaments.

[@mikhaildavidenko3841]

​@@MyTechFun Got it! My suggestion was just a general one-totally understand it would take a lot more time to make all the changes at once. Either way, I really appreciate your videos! Your channel is such a gem for anyone looking for solid filament tests, not just entertainment. Keep up the great work!

[@BogdanKecman]

❤

[@TheLiddokun]

I smiled when you blurred your patreon excel sheet. 🤣 If someone wants to spend an hour copying from a screenshot to get a partial table to save $5 just let them 😂

[@danielrioux54]

I watched your presentation with interest but was alarmed by the lack of attention to critical health and safety issues. Drying PETG-CF filaments at 290°C, far exceeding the manufacturer’s recommendations, poses significant health risks. Heating PETG at such high temperatures releases harmful VOCs, including acetaldehyde, which can severely impact indoor air quality. Without proper ventilation, these emissions endanger not only you but also your audience who may attempt to replicate your process. Addressing these risks is essential and should have been a priority in your presentation. Beyond the health concerns, operating at such temperatures risks degrading the filament itself. Depolymerization and discoloration lead to weaker mechanical properties, reduced layer adhesion, and increased stringing, which your results confirmed. While nozzle clogging was not observed in your tests, literature indicates that degraded PETG can carbonize inside nozzles over time, leading to performance issues. Adhering to manufacturer-recommended drying temperatures would avoid these problems while preserving safety and material performance. Your methodology also lacked critical scientific rigor. Comparing drying curves based on spool weight alone does not account for the filament’s density or water content as a percentage of its total weight. Without normalizing this data, the differences observed between Tinmorry and Eryone filaments are speculative at best and fail to provide meaningful conclusions. As someone with a Ph.D. in engineering, there is a higher expectation for precision and responsibility in your work. I strongly urge you to prioritize user safety, follow manufacturer guidelines, and ensure proper data normalization in future presentations. This will reinforce your credibility and ensure your audience benefits from accurate and safe practices.

[@nufnuf816]

Hello Mr. Gaspar! Are You able to somehow contact me (without sharing email) via this account? I have an interesting offer - if You provide me the models for Your tests, I will print them on PrusaPro HT90 - and I will print them from PPS, PSU, PPSU, PEI 1010 and PEI 9085 materials - for free of course and will send them to You. Hungary is close to Czech Republic, so it should be fast and not expensive :)

[@MyTechFun]

Hello. Sure. You can find my email on KZbin about page. www.youtube.com/@mytechfun (more...)