4/9/2016 "Biblical Literalism: A Gentile Heresy" Bishop John Shelby Spong

John Shelby Spong was bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Newark, New Jersey for 24 years before his retirement in 2001. His admirers acclaim he is a teaching bishop who makes contemporary theology accessible to the ordinary layperson. He is considered the champion of an inclusive faith by many, both inside and outside the Christian church. A visiting lecturer at Harvard and at universities and churches worldwide, Bishop Spong delivers more than 200 public lectures each year. His bestselling books include "Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism", "A New Christianity for a New World", "Why Christianity Must Change or Die", and "Here I Stand" (John Shelby Spong website: johnshelbyspong.... Bishop Spong's lecture at the Abraham Lincoln Unitarian Universalist Congregation in Springfield, Illinois reflect the subject of his most recent work “Biblical Literalism: A Gentile Heresy” (HarperCollins Publishers, 2016).

[@urbanmusicgal9075]

Bishop Spong's teachings saved me spiritually. Thank you so much, Bishop Spong.

[@mzdejavu3419]

He’s saving me spiritually now. He’s awesome and very wise!

[@ENGABU1]

A super talk. As a fellow traveller (I'm Roman Catholic myself) it is so easy for many to miss the essence of the teachings of Jesus...Justice and Peace.

[@judyhildebrandt7067]

JUSTICE, COMPASSION, HUMILITY

[@USA50_]

Thanks so much for this message. I love the scriptures, the human variables in between. May Hashem keep us close, bless us daily. Amen. Thank The Creator, Amen! ❤🇺🇸👍😊✡️✝️🕉️🇺🇲❤️

[@pupsystem127]

im a skeptic grew up fundamentalist but have always loved bishop spong i have a great respect for him especially for what he has done for those of us within the LGBTQ community going way back to the 60s and 70s when most people especially church people weren't supportive

[@claudiucojobv]

A remarkable men and an exponent of humanism, critical thinking. I respect his passion for religion(even while I don't share his believes) and I also respect his love for human values, human dignity and the exercising of free will in the context of rationality and common sense. In my humble opinion, Christianity needs more people like this.

[@MR-cc7zl]

+Claudiu Cojocaru A remarkable man? Hardly. He is a hater of God and a rebel against His perfect will and sovereignty over all of His creation. He is indeed an exponent of humanism, a fatally flawed viewpoint that Satan himself convinced Adam and Eve to believe in, persuading them to exalt themselves - "For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil" (Genesis 3:5). This, as any actual believing Christian knows, led directly to original sin and the fall of man from God's grace. "The wages of sin is death", and John Shelby Spong is actively working to perpetuate that death cycle. His condemnation from long ago is not idle, and his destruction is not asleep...likewise for any who believe and follow this anti-Christ.

[@claudiucojobv]

+Cantremember Thename With all do respect concerning your position, before bringing the God argument, first we need to establish God's existence, nature and traits. To my best knowledge, no one had even come close in fulfilling the said requirements. And please don't quote me the Bible, since the Bible has no relevance either historically and most important scientifically. There is a reason we don't study the Bible in our universities... it's completely irrelevant to our modern understanding of the Universe and the world around us. And if you insist that the Bible is the word of God, and we've already established that it's completely irrelevant and superfluous to the modern men - then you have to wonder what is that telling you about it's authenticity and about your so called God? At least people like bishop Spong are trying to reconcile their need to believe with the realities of our times and that's what I admire him for. He realized that holding blindly to dogma and religious nonsense cannot lead anywhere so he is trying to encourage people to think for themselves. Christianity, like all other religions, will either change or become relegated to ignorance and intellectual mockery. There is a reason why religion is in sharp decline almost everyone, where people begin to educate themselves. So you have a choice, change and evolve y using your intellect or become irrelevant. Choose wisely😉 Peace and please don't take my reply as an attack to you personally, but more as an exercise in critical, free thinking and free inquiry, meaning something which all humans must and should do, in order not be become vulnerable to being mislead and brainwashed by people who don't want their fellow men to think for themselves. Don't forget, the sleep of reasons produces monsters and we should all fight for something better in this world. Take care!

[@TheEnlightened77]

We see a talking snake in the garden of Eden but the snake is NOT satan in this story. Actually the snake is not evil. Go read the story again and note where God having created Adam and Eve tells them to refrain from one particular tree in the garden (Genesis 2:16-17; 3:2). If they eat of it, they will drop dead. They assume this is true until the snake tells them God is lying to them. The fruit of the tree is not poisonous. who is telling the truth God or the serpent? Once they eat of the fruit they did not die. Moreover, their eyes were opened (3:7) and they gained the KNOWLEDGE of good and evil (3:22). So, please tell me who really told the truth God or the serpent? Once God realizes that the humans have outfoxed him, he condemns them to forfeit eternal life and exiles them from Eden, lest they eat from the Tree of Life and gain the secret of immortality. It is clear the villain in this story is God and it is he who lies and wants to keep the humans in the dark. The snake is the hero of the story who helps the human race but pays a high price for helping us. Question is what does "God" stand for in the story? And what is the meaning of the story? Shalom!

[@truethinker221]

The story is one of the oldest attempts to show the origin of self awareness (conscious) with the theme being, that good can only be known in retrospect to evil (Innocent or guilty).. God, Satan, Adam and Eve are the characters used by the author to relay the idea, not intended to prove their existence. Your take is very interesting but i dough if the author was intending to relay such an idea. But your take does show the amazing amount of possible interpretations of such few words.

[@believervsbeliefs6599]

+ Claudiu Cojocaru Quote: "To my best knowledge...."; and, there in lies the problem. You are speaking of things that you have no understanding of. This is evident in the fact that you criticize the Bible, then praise Bishop Spong for rejecting "religious nonsense". However, the religious nonsense he is rejecting is not the Bible, but traditional Christianity's heretical abuse of it. As for your high minded praise of history and science, I can only say: "Are you kidding?" The Bible is full of history--what is your excuse for praising history but insulting the Bible? Are you always so irrational? What historical event had more eyewitnesses than the events at Mt. Sinai during the Exodus? What single historical event caused so many people to completely change every aspect of their lives--and continue to do so for the next 3,300 years--other than the events at Mt. Sinai? I'm beginning to think you have never even read the Bible, yet you form such erroneous conclusions about it. How scientific of you. Speaking of science, can you explain how and why the three religions that worship the same monotheistic God have been at the forefront of science historically? This is not rhetorical--there is a specific reason. Can you name any new technology, which can be credited to the rise of atheistic materialism ideologies since the middle 20th century? Like all non-believers, you seem to think you own science. It's really funny.

[@ContraryMary]

Very impressive talk by a man who really uses his brain. I gave up being a Christian many years ago, and will never be in a religion again (but, do respect other's choices); I would have had a more difficult time making my decision if more Christians thought logically like this man.

[@whateversmurfette]

@@precisi0n86 probably the same thing i'm doing here

[@magalydeleon557]

Hope you find your faith again.

[@TM-se5jf]

Yeah because the the things of God is all logics🙄😒😏

[@martinwoulfe4506]

Today we learned that Rev. John “Jack” Shelby Spong passed away. He was truly a wonderful scholar and minister.

[@dathunder4131]

A legend has joined the ancestors. May G-d's s grace and mercy be on him, in the next life. And may G-d's peace and blessings be with his family, at this time. 😒

[@sanddollar808]

Sounds like it's being preached in a rickety, midevil ship on the high seas. One rogue wave, and we're done for. Great message. Enjoyed the sound effects.

[@paulwolstenholme1673]

ace, great comment...i happened to read it before I listened to the talk and couldnt get the watery context out of my head.

[@71603oneday]

😂🤣🤣 I had the exact same idea.

[@earlismarks7108]

Lol....15 men on the dead man's chest..yo ho ho and a bottle of rum...

[@billywilson2154]

@@paulwolstenholme1673 p

[@ALUUCVideo]

Unbeknownst to us, some of the legs underneath the center the platform were not fully secured at the time. Our apologies!

[@truthsayer1662]

An honest priest. Bravo.

[@marshawoods1493]

I love this man!! Just wish all the world would listen to his idea's!! Common Sense in Religion and Life itself needs to return.

[@KT37915A]

I was saved by listening to a message about the genealogy of Jesus. I was so thankful for those verses that showed me that god uses imperfect people to do great things.

[@mrrobinson2u2]

It is interesting that people will take the time out of their lives to post a comment on here tearing this intelligent man down because apparently something he says makes them uncomfortable, doesn't mesh with what they were taught or challenges a belief system that has allowed them to relax mentally and feel secure morally. This man's deep understanding of not just biblical scripture, but of apocryphal and non-canonical writings is absolutely astounding; amazing...the result of a lifetime of dedicated study, questioning commonly held beliefs, and searching outside of the box for ways to make sense of a set of writings that were written for a vastly different people in a vastly different time on earth. He deserves respect for that alone, not to mention his excellent elocution. If his message or his style isn't comfortable for you, then go spend your time watching KZbin videos of pastors who preach a literal message of scripture. There are plenty out there, they will all tell you just about the same thing you've heard all your life. I for one don't care to hear a message that requires no critical thinking and JSSPong's teachings are a challenge and pose well known stories/verses from a very different view. JSSpong's message spoke to me after I'd been away from any church for over twenty years - I couldn't square up the fanciful myth stories that I had been told since childhood were truth (talking snakes, talking donkeys, leaping fetuses and self-multiplying food) with my 21st century mind, it seemed a waste of my time - his different point of view makes sense to me and is so refreshing to me that we can still glean meaning, life-affirming food for thought and HOPE in this day and age. There are MANY of us who LOVE having a voice of reason that helps connect us to the God of our belief system and appreciate JSSPong for being that voice. If you've not read at least THREE of JSSPong's books then you should probably refrain from making any judgments about his message. To come and attack a learned man's thesis with nothing more than the fact that it just doesn't match with what you believe or have been taught is silly and a waste of time and energy. If it doesn't work for you, fine...it doesn't have to! One day we will know all that is now unknown and have a great time discussing how great our God is.

[@theobsessedmilitarist5965]

mrrobinson2u2 I completely agree with you. That man is great

[@melissamybubbles6139]

magicmarkerDiscogangster That's so Mormon!

[@ME-ru4hv]

PopyourownBubble Can one word be so powerful to you? That's so South Park!

[@melissamybubbles6139]

magicmarkerDiscogangster South Park makes fun of things for a reason. The same complaint you have against rebellious theologians is made in mormonism. I kept being told that mormons weren't Christian growing up, but when I hear from literal believers in both Christianity and Mormonism, they make a lot of the same arguments with the same attitudes. I could just swap BoM names and Bible names into each other's arguments and it wouldn't make that much difference. Maybe mormons are more fundamentalist Christian than I realized.

[@ME-ru4hv]

"South Park makes.." "I kept being told.." "when I hear from.." "Maybe mormons are.." I know what you've been told; we've all been told things. What do you know from your own real life experience? If you listen a little closer to trey and matt, it is the book of mormon that provides the bulk of the comedy. And it is the book of mormon that has no place in a Christian endeavor. But don't listen to me, that's my opinion but based on serious study, prayer and other requirements for having an actual relationship with my God. It's not simple and automatic to speak this way.. It's a way of life that is against the grain of a world absolutely bent on denigrating and ridiculing true Christians. It's is the "hard way" but be sure I am no masochist. What is easy is what you said. That is what comes natural in our world. People will pat you on the back and chum up to you if you hate Christians and the Bible. Ever really wonder why? Why is Sprog kissing the butts of who would other wise throw tomatoes at him? Why ware that garb if the Bible is mostly wrong and bad as he says? I'll tell you what i know: That uniform was never a symbol of a loyal rep of the God of Israel and later Jesus. The adherents of the big major religions were trick into false worship from the beginning and naturally by now they would have resentments looking back at all the hypocrisy. this is the main point: In the end, it is God and the Scriptures that are framed and take the blame fro what false teachers really did! False teachers that looked exactly like Sprog! He should not be mocking God but should be pissed at his own class of priests who have done all the gross damage. This is a HUGE deal and is addressed in detail in the Bible. I'm sorry you haven't allowed yourself an unbiased complete picture because it will affect each and every one of us. There is only one place that addresses every dire issue at once and provides a clear answer.

[@patriciaeitz9138]

So thoughtful and enlightening. Thank you.

[@gajgreen]

Incredible message - inspiring. Enlightened. The Q&A is excellent also.

[@paulveliyathil9869]

I wish we had more Spongs...unfortunately most bishops and church leaders are not into critical thinking.

[@theofulk5636]

THEY DO NOT GET TO BE HEARD, it isn't that there aren't many !

[@tomkohls2215]

What a beautiful soul with an amazingly sane and honest message of truth for the ages. Thank you for you work Bishop.

[@tonyryken3572]

I thoroughly enjoyed the whole debate .A very good explanation about a lot of human nature. Thank you John.

[@teenawillis682]

This man knows his bible ! He takes it too seriously, to take it literally!

[@benniee.callowayiii4187]

Bishop Spong is brilliant. I have several of his books and would love to hear him in person.

[@benniee.callowayiii4187]

I'm a minister. I respect your opinion.

[@benniee.callowayiii4187]

I know what discernment means. If you want to insult find someone else. I'm not the one.

[@kayojen8827]

a wonderful man

[@Will4fun]

I was living in Springfield during the early 1980's when Rev. Spong appeared on the John Ankerberg Show. John Ankerberg and Walter Martin attempted to humiliate him and discredit his writings. Since that time, I have read almost all of Rev. Spong's books. He is a very rational, eloquent and interesting speaker. I don't agree with many of his conclusions....I am more in agreement with what Marcus Borg has written....but, I still like his books.

[@Gumikrukon]

Thank you!! :)

[@ReubenNathaniel]

really cool

[@TheWilkReport]

Paul's description of Jesus as having been born of a woman and Bishop Spong's hilarious response thereto, made me laugh. Nothing should be taken too seriously, and that includes religion. But his argument is solid: Scripture clearly shows that Jesus was mortal with conventional origins, who said and did things that were quite unconventional and likely got him killed by the Romans. None of this is to say that Jesus was not a son of God or that he wasn't the prophesied Messiah, only that he was not an incarnation of God or divine in any literal sense. Mistranslations of Hebrew texts may have been deliberate or accidental, but at any rate, often used to ascribe divine origins where none had previously existed.

[@StephenMorganMacKay]

Is this literal enough for you: 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[@DJ5780]

Nope, because the kingdom of heaven isn't literal.

[@slackistx6305]

Read the book the sacred mushroom and the cross by John allegro if you want to really know why the books of the bible were written

[@pasquino0733]

Its fascinating this idea that cross-culturalism created literalism - a common occurrence perhaps in cultural appropriation.

[@marleensalogm]

Wish I could hear this talk without the terrible background noises which are very distracting.

[@mrrobinson2u2]

Marleen Salo For real...making me crazy. I'm envisioning some heavy man or woman rocking back and forth and they need to get up and leave!

[@damianwhite9058]

I thought the same thing about 2seconds in...like water toture

[@ALUUCVideo]

Unbeknownst to us, some of the legs underneath the center of the platform were not fully secured at the time. Our apologies!

[@RobSmith-qz7ef]

The comments on this thread from late 2016 around the election campaign make great reading today when we know what was being done to the understandings of electors by social media manipulation. Jack's presentation in the video is useful to anyone looking for non-orthodox interpretations of the Bible.

[@NorthernGate777]

Accusing the apostle Paul of sexual immorality of any kind is slander.. Jesus said "For out of the heart come evil thoughts--murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what defile a person"

[@rwdestefano]

Can I accuse Paul of being an up-tight, moralising individual who said more about his own view of morality than he did about Jesus's vision of it? To Paul, "false testimony" means anything that he doesn't agree with.

[@MikeSmith-my1to]

On the Matthew story of Jesus birth I went and read it again. I saw reference of Tamar , Ruth and Bathsheba but not Rahab. What am I missing or can someone point out what I am not seeing.

[@davidvanriper60]

Verse 5 of MATT. 1 and the genealogy list Salmon who begat Boaz of Rachab...this is Rahab. This list is David's line to Joseph, the legal father of Jesus. However, King Jechoniah (vs 11,12) and his descendants were cut off from ever sitting on the throne. So although Joseph was of the royal line, he was NOT the natural father of Jesus, who was born "King of the Jews". Luke's genealogy runs through Mary, also of the Royal line. This made Jesus the legitimate heir to the throne of David.

[@roselotusmystic]

Audio terrible . . . But message . . . Sublime 🙏

[@ALUUCVideo]

Unbeknownst to us, some of the legs underneath the center the platform were not fully secured at the time. Our apologies!

[@aikmanben]

As said in hip hop, "I have mad love for you, man."

[@worthdoss8043]

Looks like a bunch of close minded hard heads didn't get one thing this man had to say.

[@Magic-lg9lw]

There won’t be shortage of male priests in the Catholic Church because they are now bringing men from Africa and Asia where poverty and insecurity encourages many many men to enter church as a career move.

[@roxykattx]

A very interesting lecture, and most revealing. I've grown to respect this guy a lot. I must say though, I do not agree with the implication he makes around 59:00 or so that women should have voted for Hilary Clinton (over Sanders) as if feminism alone should be the only issue that concerns women. Sanders was far superior as far as class issues are concerned, and class is everyone's business. Among other things, Clinton symbolizes women being absorbed into patriarchal structures and helping to carry on their (in this case capitalist) injustice.

[@robertwalsh5461]

This guy is sort of refreshing, it doesn’t mention if he is a Catholic priest, but I am not going to sit through 1:52 minutes of him. My most important point is that during the time of Christ and at least several hundred years before and more then a millennium after… a girl was considered to be a virgin if she had not given birth. So the meaning of the word has changed itself. We in the 20th & now 21st century have not considered this or how it applies to events of two millennia past.

[@ricksville1718]

5:59 If you believe the Bible is the word of God, you've never read it.

[@leegleissner9771]

All the bible accurate on God? You have a angry and vengeful God. A God that can be jelous and then loves you again. A God who wants your son or daughter dead for worshipping Baal instead of him. Strange! Could it be that God can still exist but maybe they are at least making things some things up as they go along. Ask yourself if this is possible. Think for a moment. A God who demands stoning for working on sabbath which was changed from Saturday to Sunday. That's a lot of people. Did God change his mind by now? He is nicer now? A God that can not change. Just something to think about. A kind of thinking that many dont dare. Told not to question. Take care from Buddhist/Agnostic Lee.

[@NorthernGate777]

The bible is Holy Scripture. It is set apart as Holy means 'set apart" , separate , different, unique, unlike any other. Don't let anyone rob you of your inheritance as a child of God. The Holy Spirit gives illumination to understand the holy scripture. Those who are filled with God's Holy Spirit will not dare to judge his wisdom. Of course there are hard things to understand in the scripture and they are put there for a reason so that those who have hardened their hearts cannot possibly understand. The bible is not understood through intellect but praise is ordained to babes. Unless you humble yourself and become like a child, you will never see the kingdom of God. Don't let anyone short change you of all that God has in store for you.

[@rwdestefano]

The God of the Old Testament DID commit genocide, and host of other unspeakable acts. One need only read it to know that. The morality in the Old Testament is probably an accurate reflection of the collected wisdom of those who lived 2,500 year ago in that area of the world. It took an organised religious movement in the early 200's to decide that these books were the inerrant word of God.

[@TheEnlightened77]

Agreed. That god was a tribal god who looked after the special interests of the tribe, giving victory in battle and promising a settled homeland for desert nomads.

[@rwdestefano]

So, why is it considered 'the word of God?' Why did a bunch of Church officials have to have a conference to decide which parchments were 'the word of God' and which parchments were not? Why did some chap called John who lived two centuries after Jesus get to write down what was obviously an hallucination, bad trip, or dream and have it called 'the word of God?' If you were to look at this as someone looking at a religion that you were not brought up with and came to accept because of that, you'd probably think exactly what I am thinking.

[@TheEnlightened77]

Robert DeStefano Because the Bible is foundational to being Christian. It is our sacred scripture, essential to Christian understanding and identity. But taking it literally is not the same as taking it seriously. Moreover, the Bible is the "Word of God" in this sense: in its function, not in its origin.

[@NorthernGate777]

If the bible is so weak and irrelevant, then people should not waste their time trying to rid themselves of its authority. Why would someone want to spend a lot of time trying to discredit God's apostles and prophets? The bible has answers and speaks about these people and gives all insight into what they are trying to do. Yes the bible speaks about precisely what is going on here.

[@ME-ru4hv]

hheadachhealer Great comment. The "Sword" Jesus said he came to bring, as these people sadly have not been blessed to understand, is a dividing sword, not a war-sword, and it divides the honest from the dishonest. Your comment is so good. I love to hear the simple power in truth when someone smart gets it!

[@ME-ru4hv]

James Lee Bla bla bla bla..

[@melissamybubbles6139]

Do you understand that mormons say the same thing about their prophets and apostles and the Book of Mormon?

[@jeronims3079]

no subtitles :(

[@tracybrown9344]

What is that repetitive sound in the background. It sounds like a boat rocking on the water.

[@worthdoss8043]

That's the podium he is standing on. Sounds like a wooden boat creaking, very peaceful.

[@ALUUCVideo]

Unbeknownst to us, some of the legs underneath the center the platform were not fully secured. Our apologies!

[@arthurmitropolis7303]

I've always heard that in Judaism, the requirement of being born a Jew, is a Jewish mother. This makes his statement about women "not contributing" in the Jewish tradition questionable, and also calls into question his understanding of Judaism as a whole. I prefer to not to receive teachings about Judaism from a Christian.

[@jityr2]

I wish they'd get rid of that creaking noise.

[@ALUUCVideo]

Unbeknownst to us, some of the legs underneath the center the platform were not fully secured at the time. Our apologies!

[@mjfbb22]

Excellent. This man has got a brain. Too bad he is a cleric. The problem with priests, ministers, preachers, mullah s, rabbis and clerics etc. is that they identify themselves by trade, job description, clothing, title, collar, professed knowledge etc. as worthy and “entitled” to spread the “word of God.” Jack seems to have enough introspective humility and studied historicity to separate himself from the usual “Bible Beaters.” I like Jack. His insights into biblical literalism are sound. But the above problem still obtains - self identification as a “man of God.” None of us are “entitled” to do that……..

[@marshawoods1493]

We don't trust Hillary. or her ideas. that's why we support Bernie. he is for the people..she is not!! I wish all Christians thought with common sense like you sir. I wouldn't have left and gone to Judism. Your great!!

[@zeus-cu4ft]

There is a construction company inside that room.

[@ALUUCVideo]

Unbeknownst to us, some of the legs underneath the center of the platform were not fully secured at the time. Our apologies!

[@oswaldcobblebot]

Terrible audio. What's with constant wood squeaking in background? Sounds like an elephant rocking back and forth.

[@ALUUCVideo]

Unbeknownst to us, some of the legs underneath the center the platform were not fully secured at the time. Our apologies!

[@bryanjolley8177]

“And he said to his disciples, "Temptations to sin are sure to come, but woe to the one through whom they come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were cast into the sea than that he should cause one of these little ones to sin.” ‭‭Luke‬ ‭17:1-2‬ ‭ESV‬‬ Please forgive this man Lord... for he does not know what he is doing... Please forgive me... I know that my sins are equal and greater than his. For all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God. But God demonstrates His own Love toward us in that while we were still sinners Christ died for us. Oh How we need Jesus... Thank you Jesus ... I pray for John Shelby Spong's salvation. For whomever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. :-)

[@wynnsimpson]

Please edit out the irritating creaking floor!

[@ALUUCVideo]

Unbeknownst to us 5 years ago, some of the legs underneath the center the platform were not fully secured at the time, thus the creaking. Our apologies, and we really can't edit it out.

[@aristhocrat]

Don't you just love that squeking floor...

[@ALUUCVideo]

Unbeknownst to us, some of the legs underneath the center the platform were not fully secured at the time. Our apologies!

[@believervsbeliefs6599]

A very good presentation, until the question and answer period, at which point, he thwarted every appeal for critical thinking that he had been making by wondering why young women, who "don't recognize the struggle that women have had to go through", are supporting Bernie Sanders--"a seventy-four year old Vermont man", instead of Hillary "the symbol for breaking through the glass ceiling in politics" Clinton. Evidently, the good Bishop thinks women are a monolithic group that should make all political decisions based on what is between a pol's legs instead of the policies they support. This is hardly a declaration for critical thinking and, actually, is a denial of women's right to do so. In addition, if female Democrats, who support Bernie, are somehow perverse, Bishop Spong must be apoplectic about those who support Trump--a man's man.

[@kenmargo8262]

No Jack. This isnt the track. One's not going to make any personal spiritual progress until one lets go of external books and authorities and commentaries, stops trying to prove the veracity of what they say or what people say they say, what Matthew meant or didnt mean, who Jesus antecedents were or weren't.etc, from historical reasoning. One needs to just throw out these books and start to look for one's own master within.To give up one's status and office and uniform...Also give up the 'I'm right /that wrong' duality mind set. Stop seeing things as issues and arguments. This would require giving up a lot. . It requires literally going into a wilderness. One's own wilderness. Changing direction completely., From outside to a personal inside. Then starts the real journey which is the path of the mystic.The path of synthesis ,of knowing the wholeness. The 'logical ',learned arguing way only leads to atheism which is a much easier path.One which presupposes the paradigm of fighting,arguing ,proving and disproving what others have said or didnt say or do , rather than focusing on what one has learned to be true now for ones self ,in the inner life. That which cannot be communicated directly to others.because its irrelevant to others who need not to copy others ,but find the answers in their own terms.

[@dcbonner756]

Congrats for bringing in Bishop Spong. However, introduction was rude and ignorant.

[@scottfoust7162]

Ironic that he is being quite literal to supposedly refute literalism.