4 DAMAGING bow shoulder myths - Archery Technique

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

*ASK QUESTIONS, GET WEEKLY TIPS, EXCLUSIVE VIDEOS AND GUIDANCE, ALL FOR JUST £2.99* www.onlinearcheryacademy.com/subscribe-to-online-archery-academy/

[@chrisprattmt]

just started archery - have bow thats probably too heavy poundage for me but I don't want to buy another. my bow shoulder has alot of sharp pain when drawing and I see my elbow and should positions have been wrong. I was taught to push out with your should and continuing reaching as far as you can to prevent the shoulder from calapsing. the elbow position was never mentioned. Loved the talk. thanks for the help

[@PhilosopherLegacy]

Just a beginner here, i wanted to share my experience after 2+ years of archery...i have basically wasted almost 1 year at the range because i was taught to "lower" my shoulder and force it in a lowered and forward position at all times. No elbow rotation mentioned. Result? My bow arm is compromised at full draw and my arm (un)naturally lowers below the Ideal height where i want to shoot. This video saved my life, with this method I can open my bow and keep it on the spot with much less difficulty! Thank you so much! Your content is amazing! 😊

[@gizmonomono]

Very clear and informative. I think the best way to know if your shoulder alignment is natural, is to draw a very heavy bow. If your bone alignment is correct you will draw it comfortably. But that's a bit different to Olympic archery, I suppose. Different body position, leaning more into the bow.

[@mrflytyer5819]

The scooping of the shoulder was a big part of my practice rutine. At first I noticed considerable improvement in shot consistency but after a year or so my consistency worsened and the arrows missed the bullseye a lot. Also with the scooping of the shoulder my coach noticed that my spine and back arched forward, which he said caused my form instability and led to those inconsistent shots. When you exagerated with the scoop thing I noticed how your torso arched forward just like mine. Thanks mate. Liked and Subscribed!

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

Exactly, you've got it! Glad it helped clear that area up for you :) Thanks for the support!

[@johnjhunter5185]

Once again excellent advice,I'm only just starting,not even fired an arrow yet, but seeking out informed advice on technique,on how to NOT to Garner bad practices.Cheers again,John J.👍👌

[@ybu22z]

Thanks for this. I wanting to soon return to archery after having been out for over 15 years and my shoulders are not what they once were. I was also in retrospect way over-bowed back then. I have dropped the poundage on my bow and am avoiding firing any arrows until I have properly understood all the aspects of posture, anchor and release totally from scratch again so I can rebuild a new muscle memory with better understanding and coaching. Your explanation of the neutral bow shoulder position was exactly what I was looking for, and the examples illustrated it well.

[@LittleTony1234]

Thank you, this helped me a lot in today’s bullseye tournament. When I use your technique, my form feels stronger. When I relaxed my muscles on my shoulder blades, I did not feel as much pain as before.

[@ericjscott9908]

This whole series has been hugely helpful...thanks

[@EarthPoweredHippie]

Thank god for this man, i was having so much shoulder pain. I didnt know about elbow rotation. I just tried it, 0 pain anymore. Thanks man. Mush love

[@cpierce85]

Range is closed right now, so I'm doing a lot of form practice (and watching training videos) from home. I have had difficulty finding info of the bow shoulder. This was very informative and should help my form. Hopefully we can get back to the range and try this out soon.

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

Thanks for watching! Glad it was helpful, hopefully you can try it soon :)

[@Patrizioquattromori]

I am beginner from late july 2021, very helpful video, good for my 70 y.o. bow arm. Thank you Sir.

[@skysurferboy]

Tried the scooping method to try and help bow shoulder stability but it never seemed to work anyway. Now I raise the bow to just above eye level, rotate the bow side elbow, then rotate the upper torso whilst keeping forward pressure on the bow grip as part of the draw. The bow naturally comes down and I feel solid and aligned at RFD.

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

Awesome!

[@user-mo4vm5ve8q]

Thank you sir, I am from India🇮🇳. You are best teacher for me to give online archery coaching.

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

Thanks so much! I love that it can help you improve :) Keep working on it and enjoying your shooting!

[@kyleirving5198]

Oh my gosh this was so spot on,great teacher

[@mikhailfong6234]

Thanks a lot Ashe. Now I know why I'm doing it all wrong. Really appreciate it. Great explanation as always.

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

No worries, glad it helps :)

[@syonhazarika1809]

Thanks you

[@mandibaum7375]

You are a glorious teacher, thanks!

[@bobjimenez4464]

tricky getting the elbow to rotate. I'll give it a try...thanks.

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

Awesome, have fun :)

[@peterbartley9777]

Good explanation especially with regard to the inter-connectedness of the various parts.

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

Thanks Peter :)

[@rajpalchahal5464]

Thanks sir great wrok in archery.

[@randomness8819]

Thank you brother for this vid and detailed info.

[@chrisgaskell3706]

I am a novice archer and I make the usual mistakes but everything you describe as good technique comes pretty natural, as the isolation, rotation and positions of the upper body and arms are taught "very similar" in ballroom dancing, to attain the correct posture. The only difference is that in dance the "T frame" has to be maintained whilst moving with a more than 4lb bow across the floor. 😅 Thank you for this video, as I attend a Spanish speaking club and my Spanish is not up to scratch, so some (read most) technical explanations are lost in translation. 😊

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

Awesome! Glad you like it! Enjoy your dancing too!

[@goodyKoeln]

Wow, perhaps that’s why elbow rotation was so easy for me. I knew all those dancing lessons would be useful in the end. 🥳

[@nickv61]

Excellent as always!

[@markfowler9692]

Great vids M8... Though im not a Recurve Archer, I’m a Target Compound Archer... I take alot of your suggestions on board to help myself and my Daughter... Was curious as to any form hints specific for those of us that are Compound Archers... Love all of your vids and have sent your info to many of my friends to watch etc... Thanks for everything and keep putting the content out there...

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

Thanks Mark, I appreciate it :) I'm happy that you can use the info for compound too, that's great :)

[@mortenjacobsen5673]

For compound a solid frame and pressure on the bow and pushing against the wall as executing the release makes the most sense

[@kayleigh8978]

So there are some "Don't's" , but how to accomplish a level bow shoulder as a novice archer? If it's not pushing the should down, what do you recommend to actively do to keep that shoulder from creeping back up when getting into full draw? 🤔

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

Learning the correct position without the load of the bow first, and then slowly increasing the amount of shooting with the bow so that you can keep the position is the best way :) At first it may feel like you are actively keeping it down, which is fine! But what you don't want to do is exaggerate this so that you are pushing the shoulder too far out of its neutral position.

[@Barx1963]

Great video Ashe. Avoiding the "scoop" is the thing I got most out of this!! I would like some info on improving the shoulder for elbow rotation. I get pain on rotation at the very top of the shoulder, probably more an age related thing.

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

Great point, I'll have to do a further video in the future!

[@laxmanugale3633]

12:11🤘🤘

[@mahendra4352]

Thanks, I think I know why my shots mostly going to bottom half of the target circle. During expansion, my bow shoulder is pushing out too much AND down (myth 1). Now I'll check your video about expansion.

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

Awesome! Glad it helped out :)

[@gzav]

Everybody tells me, even today, that the top of bow shoulder must be under the arrow at full expansion, and this is not the case for me. So I was obsessed with my bow shoulder position not low enough, I scooped a lot and as you explain it, the outcome was not good. I stopped after a few months because of pain in my deltoid, so I guessed I was doing something wrong. Shoulder under the arrow, is it a myth ?

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

Great question - ideally yes, it should be. But some key points. It does depend on individual anatomy, and definitely shouldn't be doing the excessive scooping as you say. I would try and get the neutral position, and simply lift the arm out whilst keeping the shoulder neutral. Keeping the posture and core really helps with this. Finally, it's important to judge this with a consistent camera height, sometimes I've seen the camera placed lower than shoulder height and then people told that their shoulder is too high; obviously it would look like that from that angle. So always make sure the camera is in line with the arrow height too when checking this and using it as a measure.

[@Mundanesuperpower]

Agreed these aren't good positions but protracting and abducting your shoulder girdle is, by no means, pushing your glenohumeral joint out if it's socket. There's no possible way for muscles to do that in that position. The tension and pain you're feeling is most likely attributed by neural tension. Again, you're right about the bow arm positions and you're very knowledgeable there, much more so than me.

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

You're spot on! I should perhaps be more clear when I say pushing the joint out of it's socket...I'm using it more as a figure of speech rather than literal explanation, but I understand that could be confusing. Thanks for the feedback :)

[@luverneanimatics8769]

All this I have to experience it for my self cause that was what they told me. I did it for the sake of being open minded but my body tells me there is something wrong. So I am assessing how my body mechanics work when I apply all this method and it turn our I have to have my own which got me more consistent shot and no muscle tear and joints pains.

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

It's always good to assess your body and see how it works for you :)

[@jbramich]

I’ve been shooting 2.5 years and have always battled with the bow shoulder. I’ve probably “over pushed” recently. I notice if I stand relaxed and lift my arm my elbow is ‘already rotated’ not sure why that would be.

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

It's tricky, because when you feel the front shoulder is weak your brain naturally wants to 'push' more! Keep working on it!

[@owenreynolds9318]

Hello Ashe, great vid, many thanks. I notice at 12:17 your elbow rotates quickly to vertical during your shot set-up. I've been shooting with my elbow already in this vertical position at pre-draw. i.e. before raising the bow. Is this ok? I still keep a low shoulder throughout the sequence. Great series, much appreaciated.

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

No problem, happy to help! It does depend on the individual but the short answer is I recommend not doing it that early as it encourages the shoulder to roll. Check out this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y6W0lGqGjK-oipY

[@kenshiro882002]

Hello. Need your advice. After the draw and anchor, my sight is still slightly lower than the target..so I have to raise the bow for the sight to be properly aligned with the target and this takes a lot of effort for me..which makes it difficult for me to shoot consistently..Am I doing it wrong?

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

Good question Anthony - you don't want to be moving the sight upwards for sure. You need to be lowering the sight. Make sure when you come to setup that the sight is still slightly above the gold and then you can lower as you come into anchor :)

[@Kovalainenn]

Man they should offer you National Coach position one day. I'm telling you

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

Haha thanks :)

[@surajitpramanick1488]

Pl suggest me how increase my left hand power

[@chrisgaskell3706]

I used to do ballroom dance, your arm and shoulder positions are pretty much standard for dance and Visa versa. The one thing you don't want in ballroom dance is hunched shoulders and you require the "T" to support your partner. On elbow rotation try with your arms relaxed by your side pushing your elbows "slightly" forward before lifting the arms. Tell me what you think?

[@ericarora8268]

My Coach says relax your shoulder but it's natural I have relaxed it, is it possible to have your shoulder slightly up naturally or am I really doing it wrong

[@beawiarchery]

Thanks for the video! I’m doing horseback archery, which is a bit different than what you do, but this video was very helpful also for me!

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

Glad it was helpful!

[@babelton1]

There was a lot in this...I'm thinking it starts with the grip so maybe it might have been more effective to have started with that?

[@mortenjacobsen5673]

Grip elbow shoulder all connected, we asume People now how the grip should be, but i would use hand placment and pressure point, grip is somthing we realy dont do... So why say it

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

Now that, is a great point! I should've started with that indeed! Whoops 😀

[@Jomel1407111987]

I can twist my bow arm on 20 lbs but when I hold a 28 lbs, it springs back to normal position. What exercises should I do to strengthen my bow arm on a shoulder rotation?

[@windyblower1211]

I would say, slowly build up the muscles andblet urbhand get used to it. Some stretching before you shoot might also help

[@mortenjacobsen5673]

Dips for triceps and forarm curls for flexors, thumb up an overhand grip

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

I've actually made a bow training video for that! : kzbin.info/www/bejne/eoqpn6GiZr-KbLs

[@Jomel1407111987]

@@OnlineArcheryAcademy thanks a lot

[@borismilosevic3186]

If you have chest down scooping method works great, of course without exaggeration. If the posture is like yours upright of course scooping method does not make sense. Not all techniques are the same and not every technique suits everyone... If your chest are down and you move from set position to setap the elbow turns into a good position by itself, of course if you have learned that rotation of the elbow. It works great for me and I have never had a problem with the bow shoulder.

[@andersonleung]

When I rotate my bow elbow I just can't engage my back muscle effectively on the bow side to maintain a strong position at full draw. The bow shoulder also feels painful. I have a hyper-extension elbow, by the way (when I straighten my arm the elbow is actually more than 180 degree). However, when I relax the elbow and 'make' it about 180 degree, I find it more powerful with the back muscle engaged, but the elbow cannot rotate at this position, and this slightly relax elbow position seems not quite consistent shot to shot. This problem bothers me for years. Is it a shoulder flexibility issue, or a hyper-extended elbow issue?

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

It's a little hard to say without seeing it, but I'd suggest two things. First, definitely see a physio to ask about it, and also I would see if you can get the correct position with a band. If you can get the position with a band, but not with the bow, then it would probably be a strength thing :)

[@mortenjacobsen5673]

If your elbow is hyper flexed at full draw means your draw weight is stronger than the arm, this means you must get your forearm rotated and good bone on bone so the joint does not bend under the stress. You also need strengt in the suppor muscles to withstand the draw weight, ismoteric work load, kinesio tape could be applied to strenghten and support the right posission but you probably need a realy advanced coach or physo to help to avoid injuries and overload , start with a band or low draw weight posture and alignment should also be drilled at this time as its linked to the biomecanical things that save the shoulder joints

[@josephmargol8196]

I’ve tried the ‘scoop’ method and it’s never worked for me. Although, it does work for some. I liked the neutral shoulder positioning better.

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

I'm glad it was helpful :)

[@tandingyeltshen5767]

What is the correct way of drawing the compound bow. Recently i had a shoulder and neck muscle strain amd now cannot pull. My bow is Hoyt Invicta 60 70poundage.please advice.

[@dangratnadewikalong7918]

My bow arm is always bent. How to prevent it?

[@BlackHaggy]

So I shoot a 70lbs Hunting Compound and recently hurt my shoulder (probably rotator cuff or biceps tendon). Since the most force is required during the draw with a Compound bow I felt like I had to push my bow shoulder out to activate my serratus and create stability. But now I think that this might have been the cause. What is your take on this?

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

It's a good point - a very different draw force curve with a hunting compound. If the draw weight is that high and at any point your body is straining you'll start to recruit any and every which muscle you can in order to get through, so it sounds like it was a case of a bit of fatigue leading to the wrong movement pattern which can then cause an injury. The best thing I'd recommend for this is to deliberately train the movement pattern with lighter weights and varying speeds, and then this will ingrain it more. Then gradually increase the weight until you're comfortable doing it with the full weight bow.

[@PhillSche]

Even when fully extending my bow arm, my elbow has a bent in it. This leads to a very awkward grip position when fully rotating the elbow. What is your suggestion to this problem? Is it fine in this case to shoot with an elbow which is only slightly rotated so that I simply do not hit my arm?

[@mortenjacobsen5673]

It Will add fatique since the bone ON bone connection is weaker, but if its the only way for you to shoot there is always compromisse in archery, learning the right teknuiqe Will change and make the muscles stronger with time and use getting adapted to the New work load and stresses

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

I would try the position against the wall first, and then with a band. To get the grip position, you can take an old grip (or unscrew the one from your bow) and put the band in the throat of the grip. That way you can draw up with the band and have your bow hand in your normal grip. Play around and see what position you can get. If you can get the correct arm/elbow position and grip position with the band then it's just a matter of gradually increasing the strength. Here's a bow training session which has a good exercise in it for this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eoqpn6GiZr-KbLs

[@ginnaestamanis4041]

ugh, 1:39-1:49 looks painful and not what nature intended! I understand what you are doing, but my brain said, "ow"

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

😆

[@adiandrei3006]

I guess it would have been better to show the shoulder and elbow rotation without the t-shirt on you. Thanks for the video.

[@hutchieboy242]

Bow shoulder pushed out.. . .. .... no bone on bone...

[@mortenjacobsen5673]

Bone on bone is a idiom. You have cartalidge and synovial fluid pads in between. Bone on bone refers to the alignment of the bones and how the stress and force is to be directed alone the senter line of the bones , a beam with a bend om it is weaker than a straight one. If pressure is out of line its carried by the joint of the bones rather the entire lenght of the bone. Things are often misunderstood or interpitaded in the wrong way when simplefied

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

Exactly!

[@mortenjacobsen5673]

I dont think rotating the elbow at full draw is a good idea. Its better to set it at setup before predraw with the grip. Then you avoid adding tourqe and stress to the muscle heads and tendons as they are stronger doing isometric work.

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

You're right. Definitely don't rotate the elbow at full draw! I don't think I said to do this in the video at any point but to avoid any doubt: don't do it at full draw. Sorry if it sounded like that way in the video - there will be another one coming regarding the timing of the rotation and techniques to understand it more.

[@mortenjacobsen5673]

@@OnlineArcheryAcademy good its being thought in clubs and few listen when i tell them its a bad idea, we need solid precises and advanced archery related info to bring us out of the dark ages

[@johnreed3576]

❤

[@rajpalchahal5464]

Sir aap hindi main bhi dala kro plz

[@foxbow90]

Even after 14 years of shooting and being able to put down decent scores the bow shoulder is still by far my weakest point. I wish I had recognized this in the beginning and not after 6+ years, pretty hard to unlearn bad technique 😅.

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

It's never too late though! :)

[@rustwolfian6682]

wait,so...no pushing !!?

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

Well, not quite - I suggest not to scoop and aggressively push the shoulder down so much that the shoulder pushes out of the neutral position in the socket. You will technically always be 'pushing' to balance the drawing of the bow, otherwise the bow would come towards you. The key distinction is to not remove the shoulder from the neutral position and make it weaker by pushing it out of the socket and exaggerating the movement.

[@rustwolfian6682]

@@OnlineArcheryAcademy ahhh thats much clearer,thank you coach

[@afiqiqbalchannel3619]

👍👍

[@JoeTheBeanVR]

People who don’t see it gang⬇️

[@bengteriksson8000]

Myth 1. No more. Thanks!

[@OnlineArcheryAcademy]

Awesome! Glad it helped :)

[@HardToCatchTwice]

I'm confused. Do you do the elbow rotation after you have lifted up your arm? Do you not do the elbow rotation before you lift the bow? Great content, btw.