4. Flying the F-14 Tomcat

[@2ZZGE100]

Slammer is such a charismatic person to listen to. His F-14 stories are absolutely mesmerizing even after having watched this several times over the years.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

💪

[@2ZZGE100]

@@FighterPilotPodcast Thank you.

[@davidsmith8997]

He really dissects things very clearly. Definitely informative to listen to. And like you, I've seen this before (and other F-14 interviews).

[@2ZZGE100]

@@davidsmith8997 Agreed

[@Gotav-uq4jr]

Number 3 on my list of best Tomcast episodes. Not knocking Slammer he did an amazing job. I would have loved to hear Snort do this episode too. RIP

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Nickel on the grass

[@tomwilson1006]

Losing Snort was a hard one.

[@oldgoat142]

You know, even though I was an AT O and I-level maintainer in my short career, and I had the privilege of serving in a great squadron, (VF-142), it's always a treat to hear about my jet from different perspectives. I really appreciate not only listening to the podcasts, but watching these great videos. Thank you so much for your efforts. Long live The Tomcat!!!

[@robertpace4913]

Keep these coming!! I missed the Tomcast on its original run, I've only been able to listen to the audio version (3 times through and counting), so cool to actually watch them.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Perfect!

[@mattmatt350]

You need to have him on again, I know he has more stories and I know everyone would love to hear them!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Easier said than done, but will try!

[@HabitualButtonPusher]

TOMCATS! My all time favorite episode hands down is the F-14 Demo episode. I love them all but that one is special.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Coming up!

[@kylephillipson5262]

Man this explanation of the training command hit home. I got a 76.1 nss out of primary and only 1 slot per week got strike. I managed to get it. Went to VT9 and flew the intermediate program and was killing it and then was medically npq'd due to kidney stones. Therefore my callsign was Stoner from there on. Hats off to those that finish the program and make it.

[@LRRPFco52]

What type did you get? A-6E or A-7E?

[@kylephillipson5262]

@@LRRPFco52 I was in the last days of the T2 then T45s before total syllabus took over. Strike in those days was almost anything jet. F/A-18 was my destiny but NPQ happened before I got there.

[@jcatkins5536]

I lived in Ramona for four years after I got out of the Nav. Julian was such a wonderful little town farther up the mountain. Loved it. I was in VF-1 with Killian. Good guy.

[@x-stream]

I remember the 1st time I ever saw one out at Mayport fl, it was the day I fell in love!!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

🤩

[@wayneroyal3137]

Absolutely love watching these again. The new graphics and additional pictures and descriptions are a welcome addition. I don’t fly DCS but truly enjoy listening and learning some of the BFM and AFM maneuvers.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Glad you like it, Wayne!

[@Ar.Panoptes]

Good lord, John Q Public could take about 30 lessons from these shows. I noticed I couldn’t stop listening and it was because they never ever talk over each other. Incredibly refreshing. Good on all of you, wish more people were like these guys.

[@dennisparks3692]

terrific presentation from all you guys! Thanks for putting this together

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

🤩

[@darrenschultz3572]

Just to add a little bit on the glove vanes. As Mr Barenak said they aid in the supersonic flight regime. With the wings full aft and as the jet accelerates above Mach 1, the center of lift moves aft. This would pull the tail up giving the jet a slight nose down attitude. The glove vanes countered this. After it was found that the glove vanes caused cracks in the air-frame, a Mach trim electrical actuator was added next to the pitch trim actuator. Just a small note. -Can't wait for the next episode.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Good stuff 👍

[@AvengerII]

As to the F-14 glove vanes -- while it was thought they basically WEREN'T worth their weight and complexity MOST of the time, it was interesting to see in the "evolved F-14 designs" (Tomcat 21, potential Echo/E-model) that Grumman increased the Tomcat's wing area by permanently enlarging the wing in the glove vane area. It was a slight recontouring of the wing to give a PERMANENT added advantage of destabilization at supersonic speed as well as providing additional room to stuff in 2,000 extra pounds of internal fuel! I don't know if it WOULD have been cheaper to put an F-14E into production than the F-18 Super Hornet. The late Adm. Gilcrist certainly thought the Super Hornet was NOT as "economical" as advertised and that the plane (F-18E/F) would NEVER equal the range of the F-14 let alone the A-6! Gilcrist understood engineering better than his successors and was proven correct on the F-18 range deficiences even with the Super Hornet (aka "really F-24"). I think the strike range of the Carrier Forces has diminished by at least 50% because of retiring specialist attack planes in favor of a mostly F-18 (re: F-24-based) force. I think the Navy was very shortsighted in putting all the eggs into the Hornet basket. We've been lucky that the potential adversaries have been EVEN DUMBER with their aircraft planning! Still, an F-14E with mild aerodynamic improvements and a true glass cockpit (LCD screens, better ergonomics -- how did the Tomcat guys NOT get headaches with all those switches?!?) probably would still be viable today.

[@LRRPFco52]

The increased fuel capacity glove vanes and Digital avionics suite would absolutely have been a great increase in capability, but I never saw a truly-focused plan on how to address the issues with the complexity and difficult maintainability of the FLCS, wiring harness architecture, redundant hydraulics to power the FLCS and how fly-by-wire would be integrated with that, how the APG-71 would be updated in parallel to improve reliability from the boat, how the hidden landing gear flaw would be corrected, the brakes, structures, etc. Also, since the line was open still into the early 1990s, that line was built on 1960s assembly, tooling, and processes and would need to be able to operate as a 2000s-2010s assembly line with more modern CNC machinery, Digital Total Quality Management processes control, more modern wiring methods, corrosion inhibitor/control on structures, electronics, and subsystems, etc. One excellent system that got integrated into the D was ASPJ, basically incorporating some of the automated EW features only found in bombers and strategic reconnaissance assets into the 1980s, and put them in fighters due to miniaturization of electronics. One opportunity cost lost with the F-14E was a multi-mission carrierborne Fighter/Interceptor/Strike/Recon/EW platform, which could have been amazing in the combat radius reach for the CSG. Big Navy wasn’t ignorant of all of this, but they still had to look at the sortie gen rate and weigh that against the capabilities. Even with the D model, they had 40-60 Mx Man Hours/Flight Hour, while Baby Hornets were demonstrating record-low MMH/FH for a Radar-equipped carrier-based fighter at the time, and they didn’t see that changing much with the Super Hornet. But a modern F-14E+ with a giant AESA fused with the IRST and TCS, with those giant internal fuel loads (could have ditched the EFTs for a lot of profiles) would certainly represent a capability that has not been realized off the boat. Loaded with JDAMs or JASSMs, we’re talking about a significant long-stick for the fleet, but they would still most likely suffer from the same types of sortie-gen rates and back-up fighter requirements to fulfill missions, which costs a lot on manpower and O&M budget. We would have also needed an EF-14F with ALQ-99 pods carried somewhere, and I wonder if aerodynamic studies on that were a dead-end, because AIM-120 integration on the glove vane pylons presented unexpected aerodynamic problems that required significant weapons separation and redesigns for the aero, which was never done. They also would have needed a buddy-tanker capability since KA-6D airframes were toast and headed out. I imagine that engineering studies were done on feasibility assessments for the buddy tanker requirement, and that’s another thing that may have killed that idea. I never heard anything about a buddy tank option or tests for the Tomcat, and that was a critical blue water capability for the Air Wing.

[@josephkugel5099]

@@LRRPFco52 Keep in mind that the Super Hornet is basically a brand new airplane from the ground up although it was sold to congress as just an upgrade, i would argue that given equal treatment, not more not less, one could take an F-14D Tomcat as a starting point and come out the other side with an aircraft that is FARRRR superior to any Hornet, don't forget that they NEVER upgraded the Tomcat's air frame and this impacted the maintenance rates although i do question the 40-60 hours for the D version because those are the same numbers used for the A models and i think they are often conflated, for example it was well known that the TF-30 engines and the AWG-9 radar were very maint heavy components of the F-14A so its kind of weird that by changing them out with much more reliable and easier to maintain and replace GE-F110 engines and The AN/APG-71 radar in the F-14D required only half as many weapon replaceable assemblies (WRAs) as required by the AN/AWG-9 radar in the F-14A/B. and yet all this resulted in NO improvement in maintenance hours??????? smells like anti Tomcat BS to me, keep in mind that in order to sell the Hornet program they also had to make the Tomcat look like the biggest flying POS they could so a lot of propaganda was put out their much like in an election campaign and once something hits the internet it remains there forever whether its right or wrong, so when people like you and me go looking for info we inevitably run into that same false info over and over again and eventually it becomes accepted as the truth, for example i can't tell you the number of people that think the Tomcat's swing wings were a major maintenance issue when nothing could be farther from the truth, they were simple rugged and reliable and this is backed up by every Tomcat maintenance crew you can find butttttttt this lie will remain on the internet long after we are dead and gone. so i would take those maintenance hours with a grain of salt until you speak with an actual guy that worked on the D models, good luck finding one though since only 37 new build F-14Ds were ever built. In summation we will never know what an upgraded Tomcat would have cost to build or maintain because lucky for the Hornet not so much as a single prototype was ever built, but we must also stop comparing numbers as they are heavily skewed in favor of the Hornet as nine times out of ten everything you see online is a comparison between an old beat to shit F-14A vs the latest greatest version of the F-18 Super Hornet and this leads to the misconception that the Hornet was obviously the better plane and only a fool would have favored upgrading the ancient POS Tomcat.

[@LRRPFco52]

@@josephkugel5099 I looked at the US Navy published Maintenance Man Hours Per Flight Hour stats from the 1970s-2000s. Anytime you introduce a new aircraft or new model with new engines and new Radar, there’s a bathtub graph in MMHPFH, which starts out high, then drops to the fleet average, then rises again as the airframes and systems age with use. F-14D mx hours were published year-to-year and showed that bathtub graph as expected. There wasn’t any improvement I could see when comparing it with the F-14A and A+/B mx hours. Any Mechanically-Scanned Pulse Doppler Radar is going to require a lot of Mx hours, especially those being launched and recovered on a carrier in a saltwater and high-axial g environment. AWG-9 really suffered from this, but so did the APG-71 (F-15E APG-70 with over-sea modes for ocean surface clutter reject). We did a lot of work on the APG-70 on the F-15E CTF at Edwards from 1989-1993, so I’m quite familiar with those systems and the history at that time. I was tracking F-14D development out of personal and professional interest at the time. F110 motors are more powerful and were reliable as long as they worked, then wouldn’t run at all if there was even a little issue. Pratts could still run with issues. We saw the same thing in the F-16C/D fleet between Block 30s, 32s, 40s, and 42s. F110s were restricted to mil power only even in the late 1980s in operational units until the AB problems could be fixed. Newer doesn’t mean perfect, solves all the problems, so don’t be surprised to see about the same direct man hours needed to deal with the newer engines, especially during their first 5 years of service. Don’t conflate me as an internet-era aviation enthusiast looking back, vs someone who was in the fighter development community at the time watching this all happen with a front-row seat. We actually helped developed some of the unique systems for the F-14D, even though we were DoD civilians assigned to USAF programs at the Air Force Flight Test Center. I have since spoken with actual Tomcat maintainers in the fleet who told me horror stories that made my jaw drop, far worse than I ever imagined. In the 1980s, I had a very romantic and idyllic perspective of the F-14. The reality was far different from that, especially in terms of mx and aircraft availability. The Navy had to make a very hard decision whether to keep a 1960s airframe and electrical systems architecture foundation alive with newer, layered technologies, vs a new airframe and new systems based on a proven design that “only” required 11-18 direct man hours/flight hour. Those mx costs for the F-14 were so signifiant, that they impeded on the surface warfare budget enough to be a red flag at the SECNAV level, which is not a good place to be when going to the Hill to make the case for your budget.

[@dasboat64]

​@LRRPFco52 You're on point! I was a Mainaineer for F14A,B and D. It always comes down to $$$. The Tomcat was high maintenance but a Beast of a Naval platform. Miss it!!!😊

[@arnie24070127]

Not shocked Top Gun had haters. In the army there are people who hate snipers, special operations ect there are haters everywhere

[@RedShirt230]

100%

[@LRRPFco52]

This would be more like not wanting to send guys to Ranger School.

[@D5Pasadena]

Love this show! It ALWAYS bring a smile to my face. I expect I will listen to it till my dying day. Thank you, FPP!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Well I hope that is a long time from now!

[@airshowguy916]

Great video. Thanks for sharing.

[@elnach3240]

Slammer seems like he would have been an awesome leader. He did his father proud.

[@Pwj579]

Point of Order @11:05 you utilized the Fictitious VF-1 insignia from Top Gun, that was adapted from VAW-110 "The Firebirds" E-2C squadron. The REAL VF-1 insignia has a wolf head.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

It's difficult to find good help.

[@danam0228]

​@@FighterPilotPodcastLol

[@geemanbmw]

Not taking anything away from these great naval aviators but the legend isn't here to tell us... who's name needs no introduction.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Ok, I'll bite, who?

[@alphahotel3446]

Would still love to hear Slammer do a breakdown of the Top Gun Maverick Tomcat scene to see what he has to say about how that scene was done vs reality of the Tomcat's capabilities.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Maybe we can circle back with him.

[@davidsmith8997]

@@FighterPilotPodcast I asked Nasty about it indirectly. And I got a similar answer from Okie a couple years earlier. That's about as good as you get in terms of Tomcat pilots and both said that differential thrust was not something they ever, ever thought about messing with. Ever. Risk-reward wasn't there. It's a DCS/Hollywood move, or the move of someone who feels they won't suffer if they write off a jet in practice. Maybe ask Jungle?

[@d.j.greenburg6045]

there should be a squadron of 14s kept air worthy for flyovers for the years coming. the plane is such a statement its impossible not to love it

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

True, but love does not always equal money, and your proposal would take a lot

[@tomwilson1006]

I also think we should have 2 Blackbirds kept airworthy, with one being a spare. If only I was a billionaire….

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Tom Wilson for president!

[@tomwilson1006]

Haha nooooo, you wouldn’t want that! Bcuz I’d make you SECDEF and you’d end up with at least 3 new type ratings: SR-71, F-14, and 1 of your choice. So be careful what you wish for Secretary Aiello 😜🤣

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

@@tomwilson1006 🤪

[@TOMCATnbr]

23:30 damn yes I was listening. As a tomcat lover, I want to master it, and listening those amazing stories help a lot, even if I personally, still have a lot to learn. 57:11 as french, I can't agree more 😅

[@ScaleHangar182]

the VF-1 logo was from "top gun" movie VF-1 :D

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Yup. Producer snuck that one past us.

[@markendicott6874]

Excellent episode - this is invaluable history and thanks for preserving this knowledge.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

You're welcome.

[@tzisme]

Insight to another world, thank you.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

👍

[@lucacagnazzi8530]

What a great episode! If I may ask, would you be able to make a spin off episode on how you flew the F-14 around the boat? I’m training for CFI, obviously I don’t fly fighters and don’t land on a carrier, but it would be so interesting to hear how you flew patterns around the carrier, and I’m sure there could be great learning points on rudder use and pitch/power concept. cheers!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Jell-O here: I didn't fly the F-14 so little chance of this, unless I can find another pilot / RIO team for a Tomcast season 2 (and I'm trying...)

[@lucacagnazzi8530]

@@FighterPilotPodcast well...even how you flew the f-18, or any aircraft around the boat! I know you already made so many episodes on different aircraft, maybe one idea for a spinoff episode on how you specifically flew around the boat. It would be both fascinating and a great learning opportunity... (don't mean to be fussy!). thanks for replying, much appreciated!

[@CarlosMoreno-dq3kg]

hello , nice video, I have a question, below 280 knots the F-14 can maneuver against a low wing loading as the A-4? of course the F-14 will maintain the energy against the A-4, but in a condition below 280 knots (CAS)

[@Watchandcutgearchannel]

What an awesome episode… you guys Rock!

[@tomcatter2027]

love this tomcat tales

[@tyoung1776]

Wonder why Bio has one of his plaques covered. Great episode. Keep ‘em coming!!

[@EveryoneIsFightingSomeBattle]

There are a lot of folks that don't realize how awesome the Tomcat was in so many ways - not the least of which was maneuverability. I been doing research on things like turning radius stats (ITR and STR), and not surprisingly coming to the same conclusion every time - the Tomcat (all models) had the best ITR of all (even better than the F-16), and the B and D models with the big dogs out (NATOPS prohibited move) and the burners lit had an even better STR than anything else (including the F-16). From what I'm finding, the only thing that could do better in these areas than the Tomcat, are thrust vectoring units like the F-22.

[@LRRPFco52]

You would need to be slick without EFTs and weapons for that performance, which is a configuration that was not flown in the fleet. When senior F-14 drivers with some of the highest hours in the fleet said there wasn’t anything the F-14 could do against them in the F-16N, I tend to take their word at its value.

[@EveryoneIsFightingSomeBattle]

@@LRRPFco52 There was an interview I watched featuring former Tomcat pilot Keith "Okie" Nance, where he referenced the superior STR with the flaps fully extending while in AB in the GE powered B and D models. Of course performing that with the flaps fully extended was the NATOPS prohibited part of that maneuver. He also flew the aggressor F-16N's also. Another thing many don't know - is the G's the Tomcat could truly withstand. Though the Navy had a 6.5G limit for obvious airframe longevity reasons, Dale Snodgrass in a presentation he gave mentioned how he had overstressed numerous Tomcat airframes in his day, and that Grumman test pilots told him the Tomcat was a true 13G airplane - and he agreed with that assessment.

[@LRRPFco52]

@@EveryoneIsFightingSomeBattle Okie is one of the main guys I was thinking of in the F-16N vs F-14 BFM fight. G ratings generally have a factor of safety of at least 1.5 for fighters, but if you're bending the airframe, it isn't good. It was a significant design and engineering feat to pull off a heavy carrier-borne interceptor that could also dog-rape a MiG-21 when they did what they did with the Tomcat.

[@EveryoneIsFightingSomeBattle]

@@LRRPFco52 In one of Okie's interviews, he described how the Tomcat's vertical stabilizers would move so violently during those "special" maneuvers, that he saw a Tomcat come back with the flashing anti-collision lights (at the front of the port stab and the back of the starboard stab) literally detached and hanging from the wires LOL.

[@LRRPFco52]

@@EveryoneIsFightingSomeBattle Buffeting. Hornet suffered from it too so bad that they bolted brackets to the inboard surfaces of them, then added guide vanes on top of the LERXs. I lived through all of that as it happened, and took keen notice because I was big into modeling at the time.

[@spacebear49]

Glad these are back on! Bio and Crunch make a helluva team!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

💪🇺🇸

[@johnferguson1455]

Another great episode!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

🙏

[@tomwilson1006]

We really need a season 2! Too bad Crunch & Bio are busy.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

I keep asking other F-14 folks I know. Podcasting is a lot of work...

[@tomwilson1006]

Indeed it is sir, but yourself, Crunch, and Bio have done an amazing job! And I realize y’all have more important priorities like careers, family etc. and all 3 of you have ALREADY served and sacrificed enough, it’s not fair that us fans and followers ask you for more. I’m sure we’d all rather you fellas have fun and enjoy doing these and not have it turn into a job, so to speak. Keep doing what you’re doing and you never know, you could end up with $ponsors or in $yndication lol. Thank you all! 🫡

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

@@tomwilson1006 🇺🇸👍

[@josephkugel5099]

@@FighterPilotPodcast Committing to an entire season is definitely a big ask but maybe BIO and CRUNCH could come back for one off episodes and take their time making them, no schedule or pressure and whenever they are ready they just give you a call, If we could ask for just one more perhaps jumbo sized episode i would vote that they talk about the upgrade programs that Grumman had in mind for the Tomcat such as the ST-21 and ASF-14 plus intern any and all info on upgraded versions of the Phoenix that would have been green lit had the Tomcat not been cancelled, i would love to hear them talk with some engineers over at Grumman and Hughes from those days if they are still with us and get the REAL scoop on what could have been had things gone the Tomcat's way.

[@wiesenbefeuchter]

How were the stick forces and responses to inputs ?

[@207rb]

Hi Bio, really enjoyed your biography.

[@PhantomSturm]

I have always heard the main problem with the TF-30s was you had to be careful with adding throttle.

[@amarshall911]

I always thought the Phoenix was designed to shoot down bombers. One day in January 1981, Iranian F-14 pilot Asadullah Adeli responded to what he thought were three MiG-23s headed toward Kharg Island in the Persian Gulf. So he shot the MiG in the middle of their formation with an American-built Phoenix Masbough told him to target the one in the middle, just hoping to damage the other two enough that they might break off. That’s almost what happened. The American-built Phoenix missile’s explosive delivery was so powerful, it downed all three enemy aircraft. The wreckage of all three MiGs was found on Kharg Island the next day.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Wow!

[@shaunroberts9361]

This was incredible.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

💪

[@nivozi1694]

Ah its back. I've been wondering where the entirety of the Tomcast episodes went. I'm assuming you'll be reuploading the whole 20+ episodes?

[@swenic]

You should share playlist links in the description, thanks

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

And here I thought people didn’t even read those

[@swenic]

Oh we do, mostly if it's a good playlist

[@thecatdaddy1974]

I bet the unfiltered stories are hilarious

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

😉

[@awg9aim54]

VF 154 and VF 21 carried bombs in summer of 1992 with the start of southern no fly zone. I have pictures of our birds loaded with MK 83 1000 pounders.

[@tedsaylor6016]

The 3+ moves ahead of the other guy applies almost everywhere.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Fair.

[@tedsaylor6016]

@@FighterPilotPodcast My statement was not a knock, thinking ahead is great life lesson for anyone watching this, and one some people really need to start doing...

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

@@tedsaylor6016 true.

[@AlphaWhiskey_Haryo]

"easy to fly, but hard to fly well" i think there is something to it about the almost-lifting-body design

[@paulybassman7311]

800ft, 400knts.........carrier Vader Break. Anyone? Only in the Tomcat 💕

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Actually, 400 knots is not that fast--I did that in the Hornet no problem.

[@paulybassman7311]

Awesome. Can't remember who called it Vader Break.🤣🤣 It was on the Tomcast,

[@jordanmartinez2432]

Is this a re-run from the first batch of episodes??😕

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Yes

[@timothyarnold7230]

Hey guys...at the 11 minute mark when Slammer mentions VF-2 and VF-1, you put up the fake VF-1 logo / patch, you know...the one from the movie...bad form!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Yup, producer snuck one past us.

[@Handwissel]

😂

[@raylauderback5126]

👏👏👏👏👏

[@clutchcrgo]

What’s a “sir grad”?

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

SERGRAD = selectively retained graduate

[@phx4closureman]

46:47

[@Handwissel]

Slammer as instructor at Topgun: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gae9iXx8a8iLr8ksi=wwyrKHV9_0HXFqup

[@Pwj579]

First...can't wait

[@indy500tabasco8]

RoboTech the best TomCat😊.

[@47mphill]

Plowbacks Rule !

[@tenToesUp747]

F-14 RIO = very early video game junkie!!!

[@dougstitt1652]

You older guys /smack Crunch with my cain

[@kzrlgo]

But is it hellacious?