4 Myths keeping your shoulders small instead of YOKED

[@SirSelby]

I like how the title seems to indicate a video about shoulders, and then it ends up being a video about traps.

[@Myke001]

Don’t be so pedantic dude, because we all know the shoulder is a joint

[@MrFaiton]

Mate all coments and answers are pedantic and annoying as hell xD. Does anybody train here? 😂

[@Myke001]

@@MrFaiton 😂

[@DjDolHaus86]

@@MrFaiton My fingers are yoked from all the pedantic comments I'm typing

[@SirSelby]

It’s not pedantic. When people talk about training “shoulders” it’s come to be expected that they are referring to the delts. Search anything related to shoulder training and I guarantee that over 99% of the results you receive are going to be about delts.

[@funkykong9001]

Some images or videos of the movements would be helpful to better understanding

[@dronehomeless]

I thought this was a Hodge Twins homage at first.

[@Lifer1389]

Tryna buld some muscle mayne?

[@kamo7293]

ah man what a throw back

[@Scorptice]

@@Lifer1389 iiyyeeeeeeeh u dooo, don't you

[@Mr_SamuelAdam]

Same

[@Wolflord1093]

You came to the right place

[@PooplexCanal]

My RDLs started getting old, so I recently started doing them with a snatch grip, and I can definitely feel my traps working more than when doing thwm with shoulder width grip.

[@Tom-pn8kg]

I have been doing them for a while too. Great exercise

[@likemy]

snatch grip RDLs are great for your entire upper back

[@Rakyr]

If you look at naturals like Hersovyac and Alex Leonidas who both have great traps, they both built their yoke by doing extremely heavy power shrugs or shrugs where the stretch at the bottom is huge! That seems to work well for naturals as they are a very strong muscle group! Strict shrugs and upright rows never did much for me.

[@AlphaLionTrillionaire]

Have you tried overhead upright rows?

[@Ucsongi97]

​@@AlphaLionTrillionairemy favourite trap exercise! I've thought nobody else is doing it. I've also modified the standing position leaning forward looking downwards and pulling behind my neck with a really good stretch on the upper traps on the eccentric. Funny enough I can even feel some soreness in my neck afterwards. 😂

[@BrofUJu]

I just started doing seated shrugs with 40lb dumbbells like Milo Wolf showed, letting my arms go as deep as possible, absolutely felt in in my neck and upper traps. It's a goofy looking thing, I might try it with the wide grip barbell though, like that idea.

[@Rakyr]

@@BrofUJu I tried that too but the thing I realised is, traps are a very strong muscle group, so they need a lot of weight to grow. Once a got my power shrug to 6 plates a side, they just blew up!

[@staunchvegan]

Tip: if you don't have wide cable pulleys, just do one side at a time. I generally grab onto some other machine in the area for stability, but it works just as well. If you don't have varying height pulleys, just stand as far away as possible to change the angle so it's as horizontal as possible.

[@Flahtort]

I mean, maybe there is mistake in name of video? We speak about shoulders or traps?

[@LUKA_911]

Well, people sometimes use the term 'yoked' for jacked

[@bastipear2864]

I agree. From my limited understanding shoulders are all the delts

[@adambraud]

He is referring the entire shoulder girdle, not just the front, side and rear delts. Looking yoked requires larger delts, traps, upper chest and neck to really get the yoked look. I think Menno is referring to the mistakenly used thought that delts are all that really matters.

[@PornEqualsHappiness]

Yoked means top of upper body (delts, traps, neck)

[@abcdeqwerty123]

​@@adambraudno. He only spoke about traps, not the entire "shoulder girdle". Generally, with lifting terminology, shoulders refer to the delts, and traps are traps. I agree with OP that this video is not properly titled. Using your logic, we could have watched a video about the chest or neck with the same title and you could have made the same comment and said that it is shoulder

[@SteveJonesOwnsDSP]

the most important takeaway for me from this video is describing the direction of the muscle fibers in the neck. makes more sense for shoulder abduction during shrugs

[@MrAntonioCapone]

The soreness I get from rack pulls at the knee with snatch grip, with both heavy load and high reps, is unmatched by any other lift. And not just soreness in the upper traps but the middle part as well. I never do shrugs and my traps progress nicely with rack pulls and other deadlift variations. I am not saying that shrugs are bad, but they are not mandatory. Shout out to Alex Leonidas for being the pioneer of yoke development.

[@Oi-mj6dv]

Man for traps strap on some heavy ass weight and go for a "walk" farmer walks are severely underrated

[@alltaken21]

Seems consistent with the isometric tension at lengthened position of deadlifts.

[@DCJayhawk57]

My buddy who is a competitive natty strongman has the best natty traps I've ever seen in person. Heavy weighted carries and loading events are very trap dominant, and all the front carries put a lot of tension on the traps in a lengthened position. The heavy farmer carries pull you into protraction and thoracic rounding which does the same thing. I don't compete in strongman and just want the aesthetics, so I do heavy cheat shrugs with some forward hinge and controlled thoracic rounding. I'm talking taking close to my deadlift 1RM and doing cheated shrugs for sets of 10-15. The major mistake people are making with trap training is not training them heavy enough. They're a postural muscle, somewhat training resistant for a lot of people, and are very strong given the wide attachment and orientation of fibers. I laugh when I see enhanced bros at my gym doing shrugs with 40 lb dumbbells, that isn't gonna do anything for a natural lifter. Chances are your traps aren't going to be the limiting factor on any rowing variation. If you do an upper back biased row, your rhomboids, rear delts, and arms are going to fatigue before your traps do. You need to do something that takes them to their limit. I got the variation I'm doing from Hersovyac, a French natty bodybuilder on KZbin. He has a ridiculous back and credits his trap development to very heavy shrugs with a little momentum. I concur, I've built my traps a lot this year using those despite spending a lot the year in a caloric deficit, it's nuts.

[@Oi-mj6dv]

@@DCJayhawk57 power shurgs are indeed also very good, great point. On a trap bar they are even better

[@matt3ho]

I'm digging this new intro style where Menno's being creative and having fun, i vote for more of this!

[@kalabhairava6670]

I've been doing landmine shrugs. I bought a collar with notches that allows you to attach cable attachments to it with a carbineer. If I do then with a slight lean backwards I get a big stretch on them at the bottom of the movement. The landmine setup gives them an inherent lengthened bias as well. I started doing them like this to stop hitting my balls with the barbell which is what happens when I do normal barbell shrugs, but I've ended up realizing that this is just a better trap builder for me overall due to the lengthened nature of them.

[@muhammadhasnainkhalil7437]

My shoulders aren't small. I just wanted to watch something before I went to sleep. KZbin suggested your video.

[@jl3114]

I too, felt personally attacked and my ass got chapped when he brought this up out of nowhere. He doesn't know me, he doesn't see my mondo traps. I'm out

[@muhammadhasnainkhalil7437]

@jl3114 I know. He reminded me of several traumatic experiences, e.g., my father saying that I would never have his broad shoulders when I was 3 years old, a girl in the gym telling me that I had small rear delts etc. Content creators should be careful not to include potential triggers in their videos.

[@CazzoneMagrolino]

Great explanataion, Menno! I appreciate the tier list included, simple and straight to the point.

[@ajaciedenniettestoppen71]

Bedankt Menno voor deze informatie over spiergroei.

[@LeanAndMean44]

Spiergroei sounds hilarious ngl

[@cecilanderson7298]

Thank you, Always appreciate your content, professional delivery, very thorough, organized and easy to comprehend. To the point.

[@DCJayhawk57]

Train your neck and traps. Neck will tie into your trap training and in my experience, neck extensions can help with soreness or stiffness caused by heavy shrugs. I personally love cheat shrugs with forward hinge (athletic stance), kind of like a clean pull from rack height. I get an insane stretch and stimulus from them and my traps have improved a lot, and they incorporate some retraction with an overload stretch. I honestly get sore pretty much very single session I do them, which is rare for me at my stage of training. It's essential to hinge forward on them and use a heavy enough weight that it pulls you into protraction on the negative. Staying perfectly vertical will put a ton of stress on the levator scapula and cause posterior neck pain, and in some cases upper rib cage/deep neck pain. Here's the main difference been how I do shrugs and how most people do: I'm using close to my deadlift max for sets of 10-15, and I don't care about the squeeze or that much control. The traps are very training resistant for some people, myself included. Doing shrugs with 225 lb when you deadlift 550 isn't gonna cut it, folks. Alex Leonidas was preaching about these back in his rack pull days but got a lot of hate. They work! The heavy overload variation I'm doing now was inspired by Hersovyac, a top level natty bodybuilder here on KZbin who credits heavy shrugs as the key to his upper back growth (check him out, he's a beast). Traps were one of my weakest muscle groups in my upper body and now they show from the front even though I have very upright military posture.

[@weekendwarrior8179]

Best thumbnail I've seen. I've been avoiding shrugs for years, guess I'll start doing it now

[@quietside3734]

Upright rows and heavy, bent over rear delt flyes get my traps firing, and growing.

[@Wolf_Templar]

Outstanding work

[@timgerber5563]

Personally, I get immensely sore in the upper traps from any cleaning or snatching motion. I know that soreness isn’t a growth indicator, but it’s definitely an indicator that the muscle group is targeted in a given exercise. Thus, I typically clean my front squat weight up every set. Not much volume, but it helps. In addition, I do Lu raises as my go to should abduction exercise which also involve the traps. Haven’t started cleaning for reps yet though, but I can assure you from my crossfit days that hang power cleans also get you crazy upper trap soreness.

[@fullmetalathlete]

Oh this is so great, I've been digging in on trap work lately cause I think it makes such a huge difference to how jacked you look. When you get that big trap pump nothing is more impressive and you can even see it with a shirt on so for my money it's way up there on the list for just looking jacked walking around in every day life.

[@Dougie.A.M]

Yup, same experience here. It's nuts how it'll make your shoulders look too. That separation from trap to shoulder is an S tier yoked look.

[@gregfields011]

Menno, Rolling your traps changes the positioning of your scapulae, which actually makes your shoulders wider. Training your traps will not change the positioning of your scapulae though.

[@Burkhimself]

So glad to see this vid…..I rarely (maybe never) see vids regarding traps 💪🏼

[@thsstphok7937]

Long-length contractions might explain why my biceps grew so quickly in a short period of time from doing straight-arm exercises like dumbbell Maltese or Maltese holds on the floor. My biceps literally grew so fast in one month that my family started commenting on it. I've already been training for more than 10 years. It could be due to increased volume, but the contractions at longer muscle lengths definitely feel like they're tearing the muscle apart.

[@stephendeck2608]

I like a 45 degree bench incline shrug. Sit down with chest on bench at 45 and shrug. Super simple and gets that better alignment of fibres with movement and good stretch at the bottom

[@kevinjobe2078]

Kelso shrugs work perfectly with the muscle fiber orientation in the mid traps.

[@coldshivery]

Best intro ever

[@big_chungus73]

John Meadows was teaching the head forward lean on trap movements years ago, and it really made a big difference in my trap training. If you can do it on a chest supported bench at like 45 to 75 degrees, it feels great. Or just standing with a forward lean

[@carvakasatyasrutah9249]

Also Christian Thibaudeau in a T Nation article.

[@ziz971]

Very good video! What do you think of one-armed shrugs? They allow you to turn your head to the other side to create even more stretch. What do you think about this?

[@stevem7413]

I was thinking the same thing. You can also lean toward the side you're working to get that angle he discusses as well, especially if you don't have a functional trainer or cable crossover machine available.

[@andersbjrnsen7203]

What I take from this is that snatch grip deadlift or rack pulls would stimulate a lot of upper trap.

[@landofnod6965]

great information. Thank you , Menno.

[@aeowid]

Best opener to a video so far 😂

[@bobnewkirk7003]

Point 3 points at heavy carries being effective as well. a nice farmers carry ticks a lot of the same boxes but can be held for longer time.

[@juliannorton100]

Good stuff, thank you for clarifying!

[@andreavidolin2421]

Hi Menno, great video. Thanks! Could you iterate more about the long length isometric contractions and their effects on hypertrophy and strength? Maybe a future video? I find isometrics in general very interesting and underrated tools. Thanks again!

[@ggbrowny]

Hey Menno, Ik waardeer de structuur van de video en hoe je de onderbouwing opstelt. Echt kwaliteit. Je kijkt verder dan alleen studie A, maar kijkt ook naar b,c en d voordat je een opinie vormt. echt nice

[@freddym6643]

I think your keyboard's broken

[@Darknight526]

@@freddym6643 He's typing in a different language than English.

[@petepan1330]

James Grage has a good video for back thickness that has you start exercises with a pull at the beginning with atraight arms. Reallly targets traps!

[@kennysoul8454]

Awesome video!

[@magnitraining]

Saw Andrew Lock showing an example of a smith machine snatch grip shrug for traps that seems to check all the boxes.

[@mikiib4117]

Love this! Thank you

[@supercal333]

Please show video of the cable wide grip shrugs.

[@DG-qv8ge]

The dedication to Ric Boogz was so damn good

[@garyoak-jq3xo]

Big respect for the shout out to Rick de la Stick.

[@salty3069]

Oh yeah 🐴 🐔 that shit

[@DG-qv8ge]

Great video

[@BrofUJu]

Lengthened isometric, really interesting. I've found I get way more soreness if I hold something at the end of the last set for 5 seconds in a stretched position, had no idea if this was really doing something but cool to hear it might be a bit.

[@watchnerd]

Given they use a snatch grip, have less much less hip drive, and rely on a partial shrugging motion that ends overhead, where do you think Hang Muscle Snatches rank? You also get a nice stretch on the eccentric when you drop back to the hang.

[@Filipko550]

dedicated to dr density himself ❤

[@highoctanehummus6564]

All I’ve done for my traps is pendlay rows, DL/RDL, OHP and they’re my best body part. I think that’s all you need for traps.

[@LvcianWayne]

I'm very surprised that no one has talked about the effectiveness of Zercher Shrugs yet. They pull your whole back both apart and down in the loaded position, and when you contract or shrug up they stay pulled down and out. Even doing them relatively lite with bw for example they give a tremendous stretch.

[@jon-kd5st]

I'm so wide that my shoulders make my waist look small.

[@johnsmith5139]

What about the butterfly lateral raises you recommended elsewhere? I seem to remember you saying they stimulated the traps effectively in a video with Nippard.

[@DusmaEduardo]

From my understanding you should have mentioned trap bar shrugs

[@henrikgostomski286]

He mentioned dumbbell shrugs. What's the big difference between a trap bar shrug and a dumbbell shrug, physiologycally?

[@kamo7293]

​​@@henrikgostomski286well the trap bar lines up a lot better with the trap muscle fibers since you have a wide grip. it's similar to snatch grip shrugs 6:30 he mentions having the shoulders away from the body, and does describe a wide grip on the bar.

[@freddym6643]

@@henrikgostomski286 The abduction of the arms, did you not watch the video?

[@Mr_SamuelAdam]

Trap bar imo isn't wide enough.

[@freddym6643]

Wider than dumbells in practice, line of pull significantly different

[@johnchatz]

now can you do a video for the shoulders?

[@Ematuresco]

Menno why not advice in line with the fibers with cables ?

[@justinsdadfidel]

sounds like snatches would be a good trap builder then? seems like they would work the traps through all ranges of shoulder abduction

[@joojotin]

If anyone thinks deadlifts are good for traps, then from the waist rack pulls should be amazing, you can use douple or triple the weight.

[@greenpighunter6930]

Thanks

[@HavasiP]

Are there any studies on how straight arm shrugs in a horizontal line effects trap growth? Let's say you do a horizontal high row and at failure proceed to do horizontal shrugs.

[@Glykyrrhiza]

Would sumo deadlift stimulate less hypertrophy as the arms are less abducted? Conversely, would snatch grip deadlifts have more of an effect? Or is this irrelevant as the most important factor is the stretched position of the traps which is present in all variations?

[@miladzadeh]

So im still confused what exercise should i be doing for my traps ?

[@Dokter35]

Wide grip barbell shrugs, deadlifts, farmer carries

[@Beerus7]

I'm surprised Kelso shrugs weren't mentioned. Try them and you'll immediately understand the difference. I do them on a smith machine. Another tip for shrugs I'm surprised I didn't hear is "use the straps". Use the straps god damn it, traps are very strong, your grip WILL fail before your traps.

[@Frag1ty]

what about the difference between keeping your shoulders back while shrugging vs rounding your shoulders forward while shrugging? When I look at your yoked after picture, you have more forward rounded shoulders. Is this how we should ideally shrug? Cause when the shoulders are more back it feels more difficult to shrug as high as when you roll the traps more foward.

[@CALISUPERSPORT]

Wtf...was literally thinking about how much my shoulders are lagging when this was uploaded

[@DrStoCazzo]

same rofl

[@dessertstorm7476]

Snatch grip high pull is god tier for traps

[@gambarusso]

Thank you

[@sethdunn96]

Wouldn't Farmer's Walks be good? I think static holds can be effective. Look at gymnasts, lot of static holds and those guys are pretty well jacked.

[@Be_Real_2]

Video of this technique please

[@ey870]

20+yr old studies - can we get some up-todate-studies

[@iga4184]

What about farmer walk exercise?

[@petepan1330]

I dont know if its possibly a misinterpretation in language but, to me, he talked about the trapezius muscles and traps are a back thickness muscle. Shoulders / deltoids are totally different. Good content nonetheless though!

[@ralphnevill6171]

So I assume you would suggest H-bar deadlifts for traps?

[@freddym6643]

Shrugs on push day or pull day? Lateral raises will go on the other day.

[@alltaken21]

Real question Menno, slight tilt forward would bias more stretch in the excersize?

[@scaryfa5t]

Doing adducted-shoulder shrugs with dumbells or a kettlebell at my home gym is going to be very difficult lol... might be time to add a barbell!

[@seattlegrrlie]

Can I recommend mountain biking?

[@kariusbaktus165]

Snatch grip high pull is the best for traps

[@sammcclure1553]

In my experience, this is true and was about to comment this, but you beat me to it. SGHPs are just different and the first time I tried them I knew they were an incredibly useful exercise and would be a tool in the toolbox for years to come.

[@cory8760]

Is a trap bar's grip wide enough to get the abduction we want?

[@jeffbunnell9961]

I've been experimenting with. a combo set of 15° DB Bench, the Wide Lat Pulldowns (Adduction and Scap Depression) and Wide Barbell Shrugs (Scap Elevation). Would there be any downgrade in performance between the Pulldowns and Wide Shrugs in a combo set, or are they non-overlapping enough? I definitely have to use straps for it.

[@lautarojardel6541]

Have I missed the point or there is an error in the video title?

[@wowandrss]

I am ready to ascend to the yokedom, father!

[@WilliamMunny-d8s]

MENNO, i think MOST trained lifters can or should be able to deadlift more than they can wide grip shrug for decent range of motion SO why not pick a weight you will fail to get 6 full range shrugs, then do 6 partial shrugs, then deadlift that same weight for AMRAPs

[@YMESYDT]

Do you think deadlifts have a place in a hypertrophy focused program for a beginner? I understand their function for trap development and decently training multiple muscles, but for an overall horizontal pulling movement is there more benefit to focus on a heavy row and pair that with a wide group shrug to get more from each?

[@Flahtort]

Deadlift not even pulling movement.

[@MrCalls]

​@Flahtort what movement is it if it's not a pulling movement 🤣 you're literally pulling the weight off the floor

[@timgerber5563]

@@YMESYDT Deadlifts do have a place, but performed as rumanian or stiff legged deadlifts. For regular deadlifts you‘re able to pull way to much weight without specifically targeting one muscle group.

[@stevem7413]

​​@@MrCallsIt's generally considered a hip hinge movement, as opposed to pulling. People referring to pulling movements generally mean pulling weight toward your body (or your body toward a bar) using your arms and back. That said, I have seen people who split their workouts into push and pull, with squats being push and deads being pull. I guess it really depends on context, but with no context, I don't think deadlifts if someone references a pull exercise.

[@Flahtort]

@@MrCalls , as said previously, we usually refer to "pull" as action performed by bringing something to you by hands.

[@ididthemath5567]

What about facepulls?

[@roel5901]

How about the... Trap bar?

[@IntelR]

I came for the shoulders and got out as I saw that this is video about traps

[@mc365mc]

My physic is trap dominant. They make my shoulders look small. I'm training side delts like crazy.

[@tsp8855]

Hmm how come he didnt mention upright rows at all?

[@ThorKAH]

How’s machine rows?

[@frozen956]

Interesting... first time hearing about these studies where trap growth is better with some shoulder abduction- wouldn't the traps be less stretched with any degree of this? seems counter-intuitive with all the stretched-position findings

[@mountainwarrior108]

No I have the opposite issue, I need to train my shoulders less or they take over 👍

[@davosat]

What is shrug with shoulders in abduction???

[@benitobenitobenito]

From the title I thought this would be some pencilneckology but these are some fantastic tips to incorporate thank you

[@Han-nk3io]

It is indeed nice tips for insane horse cocking voluminous gains

[@Edvenchers]

The overuse of video editing gives me Max Headroom vibes

[@terminator2348]

Someone explain the Eric homage 😅. I've heard him use the term pencil neck a few times...

[@saiyanprince90]

What about Kelso shrugs?

[@elevatexd]

“Dedicated to Eric Bugenhagen in the fight against PencilNeckism”

[@cremedelamemesupreme1649]

Says a guy with a pencil neck recommending "science based lifting"

[@rajatsinha6607]

Cannon ball delts! How do I get those! Aaaaaaa

[@JohnM-cd4ou]

Menno is trying to hack the algorithm with a misleading title because of Jeff Nippard uploading a shoulder video the same day

[@nickmcgarvey6463]

This is the longest version of "do snatch grip deadlift" I have ever heard.