4 of the Most Common TTRPG Dice Systems

[@Ishpeck]

This is an important conversation to have. System _does_ matter and talking about their impact on game-play/narrative is vital for the artistry of RPG's to truly unfold.

[@n3kkidninj4]

That's why I always hated the, "You can play any kind of game using 5e". Unless you want to play a game where characters consistently perform well in their areas of expertise.

[@insertnamehere8121]

Its one of the reasons why GURPs never really launched beyond the GURPs player base it established. Only the people that like GURPs like using GURPs for any genre

[@craigdesilva]

100% agree. System implies setting and flavour/style of game and what is realistically achievable or not.

[@SigfridSWE]

Agree, I played EON (from Swedish roleplaye company Helmgast) when grew up. They use a 6d system with 3 dice trying to get under a skill check. I played that from 12 years of age to 25 without even knowing about a d20 dnd system... played dnd for years now and as you say - there are strengths to different systems. EON does now excist in english, with a new rule set thats left the d6 system and will be more easy to get into as a dnd player. I hightly recommend trying EON, low fantasy masterpiece!!!

[@davidlanier2290]

Preach

[@magiuspendragon]

It's worth pointing out, d20 roll under is basically a the same as a. d100 system, in terms of how the probabilities work out -- One of your cons was about the swinginess of d20, because it's a uniform probabilities. d20 roll under -- if you apply modifiers to the target number instead and then multiply by 5 you'll get the probability for a d100.

[@Feraille]

Yes, they are absolutely similar except ont the scale increase.

[@HeadHunterSix]

There's a fallacy (implication that Trevor accepts) that a percentile roll has a curve distribution vs. a d20 because it involves two dice - which is simply not how statistics and probability work. If they're added, sure - but with d100, even though two d10s are rolled, every single result has the same probability as any other - one in 100.

[@MrDrumStikz]

Yeah, my big issue with d100 is simple: if you're dealing in 5s, why not use a d20? And if you are calculating every percentage point, why be THAT granular. It's either unnecessary, or more granular than I like.

[@saschafeld5528]

@@MrDrumStikzBecause it is more intuitive for a lot of people to just see the chance they have to sucedd in the number they have to roll under.

[@caster-]

@@saschafeld5528 Humans actually have a bad time dealing with probabilities and percentages. Any videogame that deals with probability/percentage has to adjust the odds behind the curtains in order to make the players FEEL that it's working correctly. We have a lot of bias when it comes to it and it's really easy for players to get upset when they're inexperienced.

[@StepBackHistory]

Controversial take, but I like how the odds in dice pools are messy. It lets you see chances in the sort of vague way that you would in assessing risk in a real situation. But admittedly I am in love with the Blades in the Dark system.

[@frenstcht]

It's just a flat distribution. You should be able to eyeball the odds well enough after a couple of play sessions, if you're willing to do a few minutes of homework.

[@UniversalRon2]

Funny seeing you here! Didn't know you were a fan of ttrpgs. I really appreciate and enjoy your content.

[@johnmorse2969]

if you like blades try scum and villainy! sanme system but in space. Theyre my two favorite systems to run rn

[@StepBackHistory]

@@johnmorse2969 high on my wish list!

[@billn5866]

Thank you for increasing exposure to other systems! I get a little frustrated when discussions about "other than D&D" only involve D&D clones. I particularly love the Genesys dice pool system, Free League's Year Zero engine, and the Modiphius 2D20 systems.

[@cajunmitch4081]

Savage Worlds, and games with changing die types, are called "Dice Ladder" systems.

[@johnholmes7038]

I thought they called step dices system

[@cajunmitch4081]

@@johnholmes7038 I've seen them called that a few times, but "Step Dice System" is a 4-lane pile-up on the tongue; lol.

[@TheZenBullet]

@johnholmes7038 generally they divide the ladder into steps but yeah ladder is the more common term

[@TheZenBullet]

Step refers to the individual die type or types in that particular section of the ladder

[@NefariousKoel]

Dice Pools generally have another advantage I like. Less die roll modifiers to add or subtract from your die rolls. You often don't have to track a bunch of minuses and pluses for various things. Just count the number of successful dice and compare to the amount of successes the GM stipulated for success. Or, in some systems you just add or remove an amount of dice from your pool, beforehand, regarding bonuses or penalties. Cuts down on the math and DRMs at the table. I also rather like that you only get a vague idea how easy a test will be with dice pools. Because when I'm preparing to do something difficult, I don't normally think to myself, "I have a 65 percent (or 13 out of 20) chance of succeeding at this." Yet you still get vague idea after becoming accustomed to the dice pool system you're using, depending on your character's skill & ability.

[@koltonkulis4763]

I use Savage Worlds, but I agree with your comment about vagueness. There's something that rubs me the wrong way about knowing my exact chance of success in percentile systems.

[@nicolejohntahup5901]

I have 10 sets of dice

[@LordZeebee]

That's also one of the things i like most about Dragonbane. Roll-under + stacking advantage system means i'm only ever adding numbers when determining damage, all other times i can just look at the number on the dice and the number on my sheet to see which one is smaller and that's it. Very comfy, my brain is smooth enough that you could use it as a mirror so i really appreciate the lack of maths.

[@buddhawasright]

@@nicolejohntahup5901 💅⚧

[@Leapyean]

Worst thing to throw off your dice count is the Storyteller saying "you get an extra dice for the favourable situation" or my fav player reward to give was "You get an extra die on this roll for your creative aproach to the problem." Gets the players into the Roleplay in all stages of play mentality.

[@K_E_Robin]

My personal favorite tool for learning about probabilities of different dice types, pools and mods is Anydice. I use it to check the chance of succeeding in my own system.

[@solsystem1342]

I usually make spreadsheets to math out all the possibilities for my more number-crunchy systems. It's a lot of fun to see a huge table of "net change in durability of ship systems average" for my dyad system. Which is really more of a toolkit to design systems that capture the fantasy of surviving based on the function or an object and managing the stress of survivors. Think Oregon trail with its wagon, the entirety of the martian, trying to maintain a fire in the cold of a deep freeze.

[@MarkLittle-rq2bq]

Cortex Prime has a very well thought out and thoroughly play-tested dice pool system that's modular as well as multi-genre capable. It has been formally used to replicate such genres as Marvel Superheroes, Firefly, and Battlestar Galactica. Well worth checking out.

[@joaosevero9052]

I am so glad to hear what you said at the very end of the D20 section, about the system not emphasizing the characters skills so much. I always felt that and it is exactly what prompted me to look for and eventually try to develop something else. I always felt that in the D20 system whatever skills and bonuses your character has, they all pale in comparison to a single dice roll.

[@_grumpytoad]

7 years ago, I started designing my own RPG system (based on a popular post-apocalyptic videogame series) and this video would have been SO helpful back then. I did so much research on different game systems and mechanics to find the one that would work best for me. I ultimately settled on my own variation of a d100 system which can be a bit crunchy, but which I believe captures the feeling of playing the videogame in a tabletop platform in a way that the 'official' tabletop version of said videogame never did for me, nor any of the dozen or so other homemade systems I found in my research. Thank you for sharing your marvelous wealth of knowledge, Trevor! I have enjoyed every season of your show and learning about the different systems you use with each story. I can't wait to see what you decide to use whenever you start your next season (but part of me hopes you'll go back to Savage Worlds or something similar, for no other reason that NO system tops the excitement of "exploding" dice!).

[@samsolitaryroll]

I've checked a system from Japan called Ryuutama, it has a system similar to Savage Worlds where you assign type of die into a stat. The more skillful you are in a stst the bigger dice you asign. It also have a system where the GM have their GC character who have skills to help the player and can also level up.

[@solsystem1342]

Other than the awkward critical mechanic I think the system works pretty well. It's definitely worked well for me when trying to capture more mundane travel fantasies. Or like, any journey I want to be focused on things other than combat

[@stevenbergenholtz7744]

Two quick comments on the system breakdown. 1) I know that you did not want to go into skill v. class (or ability) systems, but that is really the difference between the d100 and d20 systems. Both have a straight probability roll against a success range. If a d100 system required you to assign points in groups of 5 there would be no difference (mechanically) at all. I have often thought it would be interesting to convert CoC or Mythras to a d20 roll under system. There would be virtually no mechanical difference, but the rolling and point pools would be simpler. 2) My issue with dice pools is that the housekeeping takes me out of the moment. I can somehow equate rolling 1 or 2 dice to get a high (or low) number to an action, but I have to step out of the game to roll a dice pool. One has to gather the right amount of dice, roll the pool (possibly in batches), remember what target counts as a success, seperate the successes, count them up and compair them to the target. I understand that many people have no issue with this, but for me it is too many unrelated steps for me to stay in the moment.

[@benjaminparent4115]

Well I mean it is not like fixed roll systems don't have any housekeeping, it is also farily easy to make something look tedious by listing every aspect of it. In a fixed roll system you need to roll the dices, remember your modifer, remember outside modifier, add them all together with your dice roll, remember the target number, remember the modifer that apply to the target number, add them together, then finally compare your roll result to the target result. When you say it like that fixed roll sound tedious but in practice they aren't because you don't have that many modifier to track and in most case the work is divided amongst two people the player take care of his roll and modifier and the DM take care of the target number and its modifier. This is also true for some of the most popular dice pool systems. They often use only a single type of dice and try to stay below 10 dice, so you can assemble your dice pool fairly easily as long as you are decently equipped to play them, the target number for sucess is often fixed so it is not hard to remember it either, and you don't need to remember such number in a additive dice pool. and it is often the DM that does the comparison to the target number so player don't need to care about it either, and in some sytems the target number of success is often also fixed and you just need one success. One of the differences between most of the common dice pool is that they often transform the math into physical manipulation, and some player prefer that. You aren't wrong for prefering it the other way, but not everyone is like that. And comparing two number and counting up tend to be faster than doing multiple addition and substraction back to back, especially for people that are less mathematically inclined. Also it is a matter of experience, when you play a lot of dice pool systems you tend to become faster at it. Another differences is that dice pool can often offer more axis to modify a roll, and this can make it easier to track larger numbers of modifier. In fixed roll like DnD the only modifer you can have are either bonuses or maluses for the roll or bonuses or maluses to the target number, in dice pool you can add bonuses and maluses to the number of dice, bonuses and maluses to the success target and bonuses and maluses to the number of success needed. That's one more axis and it help in keeping everything clean, and that's probably one of the reasons why dice pools are so popular that for wargaming, that's and they also make rolling for multiple character at once easier. One thing to note here Is that I just gave to you two contradictory argument back to back in the first I said dice pool are simple, and in the second I said they were more complex. Well that's one of the thing we need to keep in mind when talking about dice pools, it is varied genre, with some systems being simple and some system being complex, and some sytems are just plain hyrbrids. When you think about it DnD 5e is close to be an additive dice pool systems, I mean they are multiple abilities that allow you to add bonus die to your roll. That's technically a additive dice pool systems.

[@thevilside179]

It would be nice to have a series of videos similar to this one outlining other mechanics of rpgs that are done differently: injury and pain, fear and madness, equipment load etc...

[@melinnamba]

I love dice pool systems. Particularly 10 d10 systems. For one thing, as you said, it's fun when you get to roll a fistful of dice. And for another I also feel like it represents skill development really nicely. In the beginning when you only have 1 or 2 dice the results are more chaotic, like when you're in that phase of beginners luck and not quite grasping it yet. As you get to add dice your skills become more reliable. I really love the feel of this type of skill progression.

[@jonathanbaago5312]

My favorite to date is Forbidden Lands dice pool. It works well, its quick and deadly and flavorful in combat and its very easy to work in with and learn newcomers

[@himurogentoku7117]

I agree, Jon. I like Year Zero Engine mechanics.

[@brickuz]

I love the game and the system itself. Can be extremely punishing though as you rapidly get weaker the more hurt you are so fights can snowball a bit too much in my opinion but that's due to the implementation not really the dice system itself... But the fact that you risk both your health and future rolls when pushing your luck is exciting.

[@hunterkarr5618]

1. I’m in love with your rpg library 2. You’re an amazing teacher and I really appreciate how you have surveyed an incredibly wide breadth of game systems here 3. Question, isn’t a d100 system be just as swingy as a d20? 4. I look forward to discovering more on your channel 5. Your recommendation of Mythic GM Emulator has been so helpful. As someone confused and intimidated by GM-ing it’s just the thing I’ve been looking for

[@luciussvartwulf6630]

Super happy to see you mention WEG Star Wars system (the best SW rpg I have ever played). WEG deserves far more loves for their system than they got, and a big bonus is that their "Generic" editions (Space, Adventure, Fantasy) are all free online, which is a great bonus for getting players into a game, while being one of the most flexible systems out there for running any type of adventure.

[@crazycaleb]

WEG Star Wars was the first RPG I owned and I still love it and think it doesn’t tend to get the recognition it should. It would be a nice candidate for a Sage’s Library episode.

[@Dennis-vh8tz]

@@crazycaleb D6 Star Wars was both the first RPG I played and the first I bought. I played the first edition for awhile before the campaign migrated to second edition, which I bought around the time it came out. The big difference I remember between them being in how scales were handled - for example starfighter vs capital ship, which was the one that seemed to come up most often in the games I played.

[@insertnamehere8121]

The original material they created for the expanded universe was GREAT

[@Stephen-Fox]

Ah, breaking the mold as in the less common dice systems. Not breaking the mold as in resolving everything using a Jenga Tower (Though, seriously, Dread is a great example of what you said at the start about different dice systems (resolution mechanics in Dread's case) adding to the atmosphere - That mounting tension of increased chance of failure until someone knocks over the tower and their character dies captures the mounting tension and release horror often benefits from extremely well, and bakes it into the resolution system without any bookkeeping)

[@Wilhuf1]

FFG’s Genesys/Edge of the Empire dice pool system is my goto system. Small learning curve but huge applicability. Adds narrative spice that other systems simply can’t.

[@beowulf.reborn]

The FFG/edge Narrative Dice System is my current favourite. It's a Dice Pool System, but it adds in some extra Narrative effects, so that Success and Failure isn't so binary. Does take some getting used to, but it's a lot of fun once you do.

[@gonzaPaEst]

FitD is a dice pool game. It just has the ternary outcomes of miss (1-3), partial success (4-5), and success (6) that comes from its PbtA roots.

[@MollyGermek]

I'd consider position and effect another facet of the dice system it uses, though it's definitely the most misunderstood/misapplied part of the game.

[@APaganPerspective]

Dude. this is one of your best vids. more of this type of video

[@zero_ngo]

Great video, Trevor, our community needs this kind of content :D

[@brandonc272]

I love the Free League Year Zero Engine games! I've played them all. My favorites are the ones that use a single pool of d6s (Vaesen, TflL, Coriolis). The primary advantage to this mechanic, is that everyone at the table can immediately interpret the results and is thus more engaged. If other players aren't rolling, I've found they generally don't pay attention to the DC or Target number of a roll.

[@obadiah_v]

I was about to post the same thing. So easy to play, a very low barrier to those who want to try it and allows a strong focus on the role playing aspect of the game.

[@BanjoSick]

Played Forbidden Lands a while and wasn’t happy with it. Your character always succeeds since you just need a success and most characters have at least 10 d6 in their focus skill at creation. Also combat is a slog when you roll 5 times for one attack.

[@diegotartaglia]

Another kind would be the FUDGE dice and it's descendant, FATE. But probably it could be classified under the bell curve system, just with different dice. But the easy of use and simplicity of the math involved sets it apart imho. Great video, btw. Keep rocking

[@HeadHunterSix]

Fudge/Fate is the dice system I've come to like best in gaming as well.

[@jasonGamesMaster]

You missed the fact that d100 and d20 share the con of swinginess. In fact d20 and d100 are basically the same either multipling or dividing by 5. Otherwise great video! EDIT: Also, i do love the mix/match of attributes in any system that combines attributes and skills for the test (D&D 3e for example). Doesn't work in RuneQuest or Hero System in which the attribute is baked in to the skill roll. Probably my least favorite part of those systems to be honest.

[@solsystem1342]

I do find the percision of d100 useful on occasion. Like with my dyad system, tracking stress as a number that you add to your roll (trying to get low) wouldn't work as well in d20 because each +1 is such a big swing. Other than that you're right though. I would add that d20 is a subset of d100. Not the other way around. Squares are rectangles and all that.

[@mata6669]

Earth Dawn from the 90's to its most current reincarnation uses an unique system. It uses steps. The skilled you are, the more steps you have. Each step # has its own dice you throw. From step 1 [d2] to step 37 [2d20 d12 2d6] or even more steps.

[@tickingtimebobgaming]

This was well timed with the release of Candela Obscura. I am seeing a lot of media like "Finally, there are some other options than D&D out there!" and I am thinking "Candela Obscura kind of is a PbtA/BitD styled system, isn't it?" There has been a a wealth of systems in gaming for a very long time, but I applaud anything popular enough to raise awareness that these options are out there. I liked your classifications of the various systems.

[@SingularityOrbit]

That "finally, other systems!" reaction in the online D&D community is so weird to me because there have been thousands of other games on the market since the early 1980s. Every time I see a D&D KZbinr suggest a homebrewed rules addition or tweaked mechanic, I wonder if they realize that they're just reiterating an actual rule from a preexisting game. I've seen people say, "why not get rid of spell slots and use a point-based spell system?" Yeah, that's a lot of games. "Instead of spell slots, why not make an Arcana roll to cast the spell?" Um, has this person never looked at Savage Worlds? Trevor used that version of the rules in season 1! There are all sorts of incredible games out there, and as Trevor says (quoting Ron Edwards), "System matters." The right mix of character stats, procedures, and dice mechanics can make one game feel so different from another -- and so much like the kind of story each is made to tell. I wish Powered by the Apocalypse and Blades in the dark had been around when I was a kid. They're here now, and everybody who enjoys D&D should give them a try just for the new experiences.

[@dranorter]

Candela Obscura isn't "kind of" BitD. It's BitD. There are some clever changes, don't get me wrong, but where its DNA lies is very clear. We could say it's Blades with the stress system split up into like six different tracks.

[@borgy1337]

The Candela quickstart rules mention Blades in the Dark & Vaesen as mechanical inspiration.

[@insertnamehere8121]

@@SingularityOrbit " *That 'finally, other systems!' reaction in the online D&D community is so weird* " What a lot of heavily invested ttrp'ers and ttrpg veterans don't seem to understand is that large chunks of the 5e crowd came into roleplaying through D&d as a fad and "lifestyle brand". Its why they don't know much about ttrp'ing outside D&d. Hence the response thats discussed in this thread

[@SingularityOrbit]

@@insertnamehere8121 I get that a lot of the regular players today grew up during the D&D 3.0 to 5th period, with WotC's marketing dominating the space. What confuses me is that there are so many KZbinrs who can talk for weeks straight about 5th Edition or the entire OSR scene, but seem surprised that Call of Cthulhu, GURPS, even Savage Worlds and World of Darkness exist. Aren't the content creators looking at DriveThru RPG and rereading RPG websites in their research? How have they avoided this stuff?

[@teya1937]

Something I’ve only seen in Neoclassical Geek Revival but think is absolutely great is kind of an extension of Stars Without Numbers. What dice system you use depends on your character’s stress level. If you’re calm and everything is going right for you add a flat +10 to your modifier, when something first goes wrong, you fail a check or take damage you’re shifted up to 3d6 and when you’re totally panicked and don’t feel at all in control of the situation you roll 1d20. You need to get back to somewhere safe and get a full rest to go back down to calm. Playing that system really got me to appreciate how big a difference die mechanics can make to the tension of a moment in game.

[@patrickmulder2450]

My favourite is the dice pool. I moved over to White Wolf games from AD&D 2e edition back in the day and am still playing game like Mage the Ascension to this day. The flexibility it allows to describe what's happening at the table into a pool of dice is really satisfying somehow. It's also visually very strong in representing the potential pools on the character sheet, which helps players easily flash out their characters strengths and weaknesses during character creation.

[@dirigoallagash3464]

Free League has ticked most of the boxes for me with Forbidden Lands. That Harnmaster mechanic, where the higher skill is more likely to win, sounds super interesting! Love these 'try something else' vids. Cheers.

[@ronwisegamgee]

WEG Star Wars is both dice pool and dice curve. Dice pool because the greater your ability, the more dice you roll. Dice curve because you're adding all of the pips to get a total. Savage Worlds is a dice pool system in its task resolution (trait die and Wild Die), but dice curve in its damage (trait die + weapon die or multiple weapon dice). Blades in the Dark is a dice pool system; it differs from others in so far that you're looking for the highest result out of all of the dice (and multiple 6s are the best outcome).

[@beartempleman5286]

Great video - and just to mention about your comment at the end. It was your channel and enthusiasm that got me interested in other Game systems, when I got into D&D5e during the Pandemic. I now play Savage worlds regularly and looking to set up a Forbidden lands game sometime soon. Both games, based off your suggestions! I have a Avatar Legends sitting on my shelves waiting to be read. I have so much interest just never enough time to play! I even have my own etsy shop making various TTRPG crafts to help me earn some money as I study at College. But a Big Thanks to you for sharing this passion with your Channel, and I agree theres room for many more, which is why I share your channel with everyone I can!

[@Mantorp86]

As much as I like simple systems the only thing that bothers me about roll-under system is that it's based mostly on your skill and it doesn't take in consideration the opposition. If my character is good with a bow for example it will be more difficult to hit a moving target than a static target. I lately found out about the dice pool systems in particular the FU RPG (Freeform Universal RPG) and it's really simple and fun to play. The whole point is that roll as many d6 as your character is good at a particular action and remove as many d6 for every thing that makes the situation harder for the character. So if your character is really good with a bow you should roll 2d6 but because the target is moving you subtract 1d6 so you should roll just 1d6 (2d6 - 1d6 = 1d6). The game is free which is the best thing :)

[@Enfors]

Love this video. Mechanics analysis is so interesting to me, since I'm working on my own little TTRPG.

[@borgy1337]

Thanks for covering game mechanics -- please do more. With your vast experience you're well-placed to handle this content. Most KZbinrs stick to D&D and don't know about much else.

[@KyrndomWolf]

For those that prefer D20 systems but found a great D100 system with a great oracle book I got and love D100 Dungeon and oracle of Scarlet Heroes. I backed and see the D&D 5e overthrow might be Shadowdark. TTRPG is my favorite Hobby.

[@jasonnewell7036]

My favourite dice curve system is Earthdawn. They use Steps for rolling dice, as each step corresponds to a certain die or group of dice. A step of 5 rolls a d8, whereas a step 11 is a d10 + d8. Your step is determined by your attribute, but then you add your rank in your talents or skills to that step. For example, if you had a Dexterity step of 6 and three ranks in Melee Weapons, that would give you a step of 9 which is a d8+d6. The step number is good because it also tells you about the average you will roll for that test. You then roll to beat a difficulty number for most tests, and ypu gains additional bonuses for every 5 you beat the DN by. But my favourite thing about the system is that the dice explode. For those who are unfamilliar with the concept, if you roll the highest result on a simgle die, you keep that score and then roll again, adding the new result onto the previous one. If you keep rolling the highest result, then it keeps going.

[@jndenton010]

What a great video, thanks so much for educating everyone on "what else" is out there in the tabletop rpg universe.

[@workingforgear]

This is the first video I watched of yours. I really liked they speed you passed on the info without it being confusing. Great work!

[@treclark8556]

So I am making TTRPG for my family and I to play. Really opened my eyes about how to not just rip mechanics straight from DnD. Also loved the conciseness of the explanations, great job!

[@jeflemmens1417]

Another dice mechanic you can find in TORG (roleplaying the possibility wars). It uses d20 and cards. It's called the drama-deck and the players can use those cards to increase a skill value or bonus or by allowing you to "break the rules" in some specific way.

[@swiftigoth]

Kudos to you for pointing out the "swinginess" of a d20 - everything is a flat 5% chance. Although d20 systems use "10" as the "average", there is no "average" with a single die.

[@allluckyseven]

These types of videos are totally my jam. The "dice play" in games is something that's really interesting to me. Which is I guess a bit gamey, but it makes things more exciting than just rolling to check if you did X or Y. So you can have more stuff to do with your rolls, more strategic decisions to take and all that.

[@StarkMaximum]

This is an excellent video and a wonderful resource, Mr. Duvall! As someone who loves to hack and tinker with systems and have flirted with making my own from the many parts all the RPGs I own have given me, understanding dice systems at a glance is the core of the RPG hobby to me. I think that the dice resolution system is the backbone of any RPG, and it's so helpful to have a good understanding of all your various options. It's so important to know what sort of results you get on average from the most common and some of the more niche die systems so you know what works for you, whether you're making a whole new game or just adjusting one you already love!

[@edwardromero3580]

A solid explanation of various dice systems. My personal favorite "alternative" dice system is found in Ironsworn and the variant found in Solitary Defilement, both solo games, as you know.

[@writeheroics7490]

Super informative and educational. Thank you! I was wondering about this exact topic (title of your video) and was reading through rpggeek's top 100 and seeing things like "dice pools" and not knowing exactly what that meant. Great information! Clearly explained!!

[@KammaKhazi]

really great video. DCC’s dice chain system is pretty interesting with it’s weird dice

[@Seldinor]

Silhouette from Dream Pod 9 has a great system that pretty much no one knows about and it was used in the TTRPGs Heavy Gear and Jovian Chronicles. The system uses D6s (but it was designed for D8s, and works better that way, but "marketing" decided D6 was the way to go) and it's a pretty nice system: - You have a Dice Pool equal to your skill level. Level 1 is apprentice, 2 is Journeyman, 3 Master (4-5 are pretty rare and legendary). Lets Say you have Guns 3, so you throw 3D8. - You check the higher number in that throw. If I got 3, 5, and 7 you only got a 7. - You add your Atribute modifier. Standard is +0, abover average +1, good is +2. Lets say you have Agility +2, so 7+2=9 you got a 9! - You compare that to the CD, usually it is a 5 and it can be modified by things like being wounded, range, etc. You can also do opposing checks, if your enemy knows you are shooting him he can Dodge. Let's say he has Dodge 2+1, he throws a 3 and 5, so he got a 5+1=6. He was hit. - If you are calculating damage, you Multiply the Damage of the Weapon (x15 a 9 mm pistol) by the exceeding number. In this case 9 Gun - 6 Dodge = 3x15 = 45 damage. It has a Wound condition system, so 15 is Superficial Wound., 30 a Grave Wound and 60 Death. We got him for 45, so he has a Grave Wound, -2 on all actions. He dies on -5. The only 2 things to know aside from this are the following: - Extra 8s add +1 to the sucess. If I got a 3, 8 and 8 in my Guns 3+2 I have a 8+1+2=11. This is a great feature, because you cannot get absurdly high sucesses like in other systems, its very hard to get over 10 in a throw. - You can only get a Fumble on all 1s on the throw. If I have Guns 3 I have to throw 1,1,1 to fumble. This is also amazing because the higher your skill the more difficult is to fumble. Level 1 is one in eight, happens a lot: you are an apprentice and it shows. Level 2 is really hard to get Snake Eyes. Level 3 I have never seen it, honestly, but I guess it can happen. It is a really fast, small pool dice system, that can be used in any setting with little effort and seems pretty realistic. It's not great for heroics, but for historical RPGs or tactical ones like Heavy Gear and Jovian Chronicles it shines.

[@Dennis-vh8tz]

I'd argue that WEG D6 belongs in the "others" category as it combines elements of both dice curve and dice pool. Like a dice pool system it builds a pool of stat + skill dice; however, summing dice roll gives it a _very_ strong dice curve effect - the mean roll of n * D6 is 3.5 * n, and the standard deviation from that mean decreases as n increases. It made skill level extremely important.

[@jonathanpickles2946]

Agreed. I'd say the variation within dice pool systems is greater than the difference between d100 and d20 systems.

[@TheRavenArchon]

The curve is one of the things I always loved about D6. d20 always has two big problems for me. At lower levels the dice matters too much and the randomness can lead to wiff-fests. But at higher levels when your skill are all at, like, +25 or something, the die barely matters at all anymore, especially with opposed tests. WEG D6 gets around both, because the bell curve means that even lower level characters are going to consistently hit reasonable target numbers, while the lack of modifiers means that even an advanced character is never guaranteed success. Add in the wild die for an extra bit of spice and you end up with a system where characters are reliable at their jobs, but even experienced characters can't let their guard down or get too cocky. It's only real sticking point is having to add up all the dice. I've met a lot of people who wouldn't even give d6 a try because of the idea of having to add up 6-8 dice at a time.

[@doc8125]

@@TheRavenArchon IMO the best part is that it just makes sense unlike a lot of other systems. Like someone who is experienced in whatever skill is so usually many times more likely to succeed an advanced task than someone who isn't trained in real life. Always was annoyed at d&d where you could be an actual fucking wizard and only have a few % more chance at success to succeed an arcana check than some random fighter

[@jonberry2083]

For Shadowrun, playing 1st-3rd editions will generate a smaller dice pool than than the later versions. I personally like running 3rd edition Shadowrun because I have most of the books and it's a different system than a d20 system, also a bit more deadly which makes my players think a bit more before taking actions.

[@SalihFCanpolat]

A video that can be book marked. I will be sending this to the prospective GMs and interested parties to gain insight into RPGs from a system perspective.

[@steelcaress]

I've been running a 2d6, beat the target number system in my solo game for some time. Games like Barbaric! (fantasy RPG based on Traveller), Blood of Pangea, and Dungeon Questing (a classless level-less variant of original D&D that does not use the d20) all run off that dice mechanic. It's simple, and it works.

[@MP-uw1qc]

The Godlike/Wild Talent dice pool rolling system was interesting. One roll tells you if you succeed, where you hit and how much damage you do.

[@parallaxe1]

Extremely helpful 101 overview. Much appreciated 👍

[@karlheilmann9172]

You just summed up an understanding of different systems and games that many would've taken years to realize! Awesome!

[@johnberry5296]

Excellent video. I love different dice systems and always buy the special dice for whatever I’m playing solo (which is getting expensive 😂)

[@shiggydiggy6847]

Been homebrewing my own game and have been staring at the distributions and doing some thinking for a while. Some thoughts on the different systems. Flat distribution roll over/under (with bonuses) systems: - Die size essentially only matters for crit/fumble range and the minimum interval for any bonuses/maluses. Best control over crit range over other system. - Due to flat distribution, you need relatively large flat bonuses in relation to the die value range to feel like you are consistently good at something. - Marginal effect of +1 stays consistent, easier to design progression. - Can become (relatively) math heavy especially on further character progression. Pathfinder in particular gets a lot of number bloat. Bell curve and v-curve roll under/over (with bonuses) systems: - More predictable outcomes compared to single die systems, as 68% of the rolls fall within one standard deviation of the mean. - Works well with smaller bonuses. On the other hand progression is harder to design as the marginal effect of +1 varies to an extreme degree, unlike in single die systems. - Adding 3 die values together can be surprisingly slow, can make rounds more sluggish. Dice pool systems: - Very light on math as you don't need to add or subtract values beyond counting the die that pass the check. - Marginal utility of extra die decreases, but starts of pretty high so character progression is easier to deal compared to normal distribution. - Can be challenging for the DM to come up with either appropriate difficulty targets or partial success/failure description on the fly. And you can also spice things up by using unidentical dice on either dice pool or roll over system. Ironclaw for example has you throw d6 and d8 and pick the highest. You can do a dice pool system where you start with a d8 and add d6's with the target number varying from 5-7, with 7 always being 25% chance no matter how good you are. Or use some kind of poker dice rules where you look for straight or pairs rather than just higher numbers.

[@davewilson13]

D20 is effectively percentiles in 5% chunks. Both are just as swingy, but interestingly all the implementations seem to have little to no overlap.

[@rich8021]

D20 relies too much on luck of a roll especially when it comes to damage. Say I crit and then roll 1d10, get a 1 and then double it or even if i roll 1 and 10 it's only an 11 for a crit and that's pretty useless. It takes away all the thrill of getting the crit. Almost all other systems do not have that problem.

[@houstonwilson8383]

@@rich8021 but that's a problem with D&D and it's clones, not the core D20 System itself. So using your d10 example, you could fix the issue by deciding that in a crit you automatically deal 10 damage, plus another d10 damage that you roll.

[@justinsinke2088]

Information like this needs to get out more. I have found it borderline depressing trying to get folks to understand systems that aren't D&D and they struggle because they're looking for parallels to D&D (made even more confusing for them when it's not even a D20 system) that aren't there, with questions like "how do I determine my AC" or "what's my attack roll modifier" in a system that doesn't use those concepts, or at least not in the same way D&D does, and they end up trying to force a square peg through a round hole trying desperately to try and find the parallels to find an ease of familiarity that just isn't there. It often feels like if they're not rolling a d20, they can't fathom how the system even functions because using a d20 is just how TTRPGs function in their minds. It makes it really hard to teach someone when the first lesson has to be reiterating several times how this isn't a d20 system and that, yes, there are systems other than the d20 systems that are still TTRPGs.

[@quantus5875]

I mentioned it in one of the replies, but The Dark Age, a German TTRPG, for skill rolls uses 3d20 where each d20 is compared against one of three linked attributes (every skill has three linked attributes). Your skill value then acts as a tiny pool of points to try and prevent you from missing any of the three rolls. A lot easier to use it than to explain it -- but it's a pretty cool system. Hard to classify but just goes to show you how many little variants and add-ons you can do to basic die systems.

[@dranorter]

A neat option for a bell curve with less math is to roll 3 dice and discard the highest and lowest. Even with 5 dice, spotting the middle result is surprisingly fast (and then you get to roll 5 dice!). Sadly, though, I'm not aware of a game that does this, it's just something I play around with in homebrew.

[@dranorter]

One reason to do this is to get a 'real' bell curve. Adding 2d6 feels a bit bell-like but it's actually a triangle. You need 3 dice to get a bell shape, and as soon as you're adding 3 things, you're slowing down gameplay. Now, taking the middle value of 3 d6's doesn't provide much range at all... which is a perfect reason to pull out d12s or d20s. And D20s are iconic, right? But nobody would want to make a dice curve by adding d20's. So rolling 5 d20's and taking the middle hits a nice sweet spot: Not much math, yet rolling a nice handful of iconic dice.

[@EmptyKingdoms]

@@dranorter There exists a Spanish system called 1o3, middle one of 3 d10s. It can have a bit too much math if the rules are interpreted a certain way, but it can also be tinkered with fairly easily. It's amazing. I like actual bell curves too, and middle values are so interesting. 1o3 has also has rules for exploding dice and matching values.

[@dranorter]

@@EmptyKingdoms That's awesome, thank you!

[@dranorter]

@@EmptyKingdoms OK, that seems really hard to google, any idea how to point me in the right direction?

[@ajaxplunkett5115]

This was an excellent video. I am going to like and subscribe. Your videos covering different rpgs are both informative and avoid negative one sidedness ( if that's a word? )

[@bobsavage3317]

Thanks for being so generous with your knowledge/experience. I knew this video would deepen my understanding of the hobby. Peace

[@jRsqILVOY]

It's interesting to see in video games too - like Shadow Empire uses something like the d100 roll-over system for skill checks, and Master Of Magic uses a dice pool system for all attacks (every "hit" does 1 dmg, and you make a number of hits equal to the attack strength).

[@realitymill]

Great video, very well described! I have been thinking on a dice pool system where you roll your dice at beginning of a conflict then spend your successes on actions. I'm not sure if this would be less fun taking away the tension of the "gamble" of rolling every action. The goal would be to eliminate the "i rolled crappy, so I do nothing" situations changing it to "i know how much I can do"

[@frankb3347]

Some of my favorite old games are based on D10 systems (Ars Magica, Cyberpunk 2020, etc.). They basically function like D20 systems but count less on dumb luck as the range of randomness is only 10 instead of 20.

[@kervala]

Yes, I think it's a good compromise :) Stats + Skills will be often greater than the dice roll (when you're experienced) :) There are too much randomness in D20 system :( I'm playing Cyberpunk Red and I love it

[@quantus5875]

Fantasy Age and all the Green Ronin AGE games (like Modern Age) are dice-curve systems per the definition in this video. Great video btw!! I would point out the interesting mechanic that Fantasy Age uses. Fantasy Age uses 3d6 -- but one of the d6 is a different color (this die is called the stunt die). If you roll any doubles with any of the three dice the number on the stunt die is the number of stunt points you get (you only get stunt points on a success). Still a dice curve system (i.e. it's a 3d6 roll-high system) -- but it has this additional cool mechanic built around this stunt die mechanic. Definitely worth checking out.

[@ConlangKrishna]

Working myself on an overview over different rpg systems, I just googled 'dice mechanics'. And here comes your brand-new video! ❤ I also like success class systems, like in Talislanta or Quest. On a d20, 1 is always a mishap, 2-5 is a failure, 6-10 is a partial success, 11-19 is a success, and 20 is a critical success. Skill values might be added.

[@DMofBriseras]

Well, you’ve certainly earned yourself another subscriber. This was super helpful and really easy to understand. Can’t wait to try out some new systems!

[@alexgreychuck7605]

Awesome analysis of systems, Trevor. Very helpful.

[@Katwind]

Thank you for showing so well the good and bad sides (pun intended) from the main systems. Sadly my favorite so far is the Forged in the Dark system (Blades in the Dark and associates) and that was barely mentioned, but to step away from spreading disiformed takes is probably the right call. Very informative and succint anyway, you really sold me the appeal of the percentile system games.

[@jonofpdx]

Just found your videos and found you to be charismatic and entertaining. Subscribed! Have you ever tried Genesys per chance? Whether you like the specific narratice dice or not, i think they are facinating as a dice mechanic.

[@shaneintheuk2026]

You didn’t mention the Ironsworn type of system and I understand why because I couldn’t summarise it or fit it into any of your categories. I found dice pools very mechanical and time consuming, especially if you’re soloing a party. Rolling 15d6 for each character each round and the monsters soon loses its appeal. However, that’s true of most traditional RPGs. Playing a party in Savage Worlds, RuneQuest or WHFRPS can get a bit tedious in a drawn out battle. I hope you introduce a solo friendly system for Season Four.

[@ddcardo]

I had a small who used a homebrew dice curve system for stat checks in ADnD. This was a while ago. You used d6s . The goal was to role less than your stat on the d6 alotted. The more difficult the check, the more dice you had to use.

[@BlizzAz]

You are 100% correct on how to roll a 100 on the percentile dice. I recently saw a video where the guy was telling it wrong, and his comment section was filled with a bunch of people agreeing with him. I love the Vampire (World of Darkness) pool system; it's simple and very intuitive.

[@GriffinMuffin]

Hey mate, this was very helpful. Looking to develop my own trrpg and getting a good grounding on the types of systems is what I needed. Thanks for the video.

[@joellechanu7789]

Thanks a lot, very clear. For dice pool system I had issue playing Margaret Weiss Marvel Heroic rpg. the first one was that players used to much the same dice pool over and over. And playing hydra members even with a super-villain was no near to do what they needed to succeed to make the story continue and interesting. But I liked the milestones idea. I also point the token system used in marvel univers rpg.

[@D3vious113]

I'm here because your Savage Worlds game converted me since it's so dang quick and fun. Homie tell me what my next four purchases are gonna be, freakin' SEND IT!

[@lkriticos7619]

I really love the dice pool games I've played. In terms of general mechanics I think they're a lot easier to pick up. Less math and modifiers to keep track of and pieces up in the air. And I really love the flexibility of being able to roll incongruous skill and attribute combinations. I've also enjoyed the dice curve systems I've played. I don't know if this is a general thing with them, but I've found a lot of the ones I've played have a slightly crunchier character creation, though actually playing is generally very straightforward. I've got a group that's only played d20 systems based on D&D and I'm hoping to run them through some different systems. So far we've had a GURPs one shot which went well. I'm hoping to do a few sessions of Traveller and a few of City of Mist too. Maybe a Chronicles of Darkness game or two as well. I'm interested to see how they do with the different systems and what they like or don't about the game.

[@bradutterstrom4105]

I like how you presented the quick tutorial how to interpret a d100 roll. Drives me nuts that quite a few people think you HAVE to ADD the two dice together. I rolled an 80 and a 0, 0 means 10 so 80+10 is 90! Huh?

[@purplelibraryguy8729]

I played a game called Torg for a while which was fundamentally a d20 system, but you also had cards, which could have effects that ranged from significant dice-bonus to story-changing. Gave it a more cinematic feel, for sure.

[@wispsprojects1120]

Nice rundown, thank you for it! Most d100 roll under systems can be easily converted to roll above. You just roll the d100, add your percent value and if it's 100 or over then you succeed. I'm not a math person, but that should give you the same chances. Same for DnD variants that use roll d20 under your attribute (like Black Hack). I even saw a version of Fighting Fantasy that converted the 2d6 roll under system to a 2d6+skill vs. 15 system. I know I already mentioned Freeform Universal by Nathan Russel under another video, hope it's okay if I bring it up again, I just think it's a great lightweight game for those who like story-focused games with little crunch. It has a similar feel to Blades in the Dark, but not quite the same, and also could double as an oracle for solo play. I'm eyeing the Year Zero Engine SRD right now, it looks like it could work well for me with some tweaks for a solo campaign, together with Mythic 2e. I just need to pick a genre I want to play in :D

[@tanakathecowboy]

Sir, you're a gentleman and a scholar. Thank you.

[@MrCryptogon]

I knew it was a long shot but i was hoping to see the One Roll Engine (ORE) mentioned. Seen in Reign, Godlike, and others by Greg Stolze. Its a dice pool system (Stat+skill) and success is measured in the number of matching dice, and their value, giving "Width" and "Height", respectively. The coolest part is that the result can tell you not only if you succeed, but also how fast, and whether you beat your opposition and by how much. If in combat, that same roll would tell you where you hit and also how much damage you did. High dice pools also allow for multiple matches which you can choose between for whether its important to act quickly, or succeed decisively. Its a brilliant system that deserves more exposure.

[@MrCryptogon]

I forgot to say "Great video!" its so good to see non-d20 systems get some exposure and this was a good breakdown.

[@neuromancer9k]

Some excellent thoughts on the various systems that have been unleashed over the last 40+ years. So many pros and cons to each. That said, I'm still leaning towards GURPS. Great video, thank you! 🍻

[@keaganwheeler-mccann8565]

I whole-heartedly agree with your closing statement about the beauty and breadth of wonder available in other games.

[@TheRastaDan]

I couldn't say what exactly I didn't like about DND until I discovered systems that have not that swingy dice systems. One other important factor I would add is the possibility or lack of using resources in whatever way to enhance or reroll your trow, like in Fate with Fate-points or in Torg Eternity with Possibilities. It really gives power to the players to invest something, to turn a bad trow into a success but with the risk of lacking that resource in another situation

[@alexgreychuck7605]

Nice to see Warhammer gets some love.

[@lockedlake]

Like always, very good video. Something that I'll throw here just because I find it funny and I'm still unsure which one I want to use. Reading a D100 has 2 variations. 1. The way you explain it. 2. The 00 - 90 where 00 is indeed 0. Then the 0-9 on the units is 1 - 10 Which mean that to get 100, you need 90 and 0 and for 1, it's 00 and 1 The second system retain the simple rule to add 1 die to the other. the first option has the 00 and 0 changing rules depending of the numbers. 00 + 0 = 100 00 + 5 = 5 10 + 0 = 10 20 + 5 = 25 #1 is really fast and easy to read, but there's conditions applied to the 00 and 0. Ok I'm seeing myself out xD

[@zachary37]

My players seem to grasp and enjoy the dice pool systems best. They LOVE having a ton of dice in hand to chuck.

[@kervala]

For the "dice pool systems", in Métal system (that is using that system and mainly used by TTRPG Bloodlust Métal), you can discard some dices (no more than half) that are automatically converted to a success, the con of that is that since you both count the number of successes (all pair faces of D6 = 2, 4 and 6) and the total must exceeds a difficulty level based on your status (tired, wounded, etc...), you can "fail" the roll :) Example : you should roll 8D6, but you choose to roll only 4D6, you have a difficulty level of 9, you get at least 4 successes (the discarded dices), but the sum of your 4D6 must be greater than 9 and you can do a total of between 4 and 8 successes :)

[@Ivindant]

Very useful in designing my system. Cheers, thanks dude.

[@edtcrandall]

An intriguing dice pool game is RISUS: free rules that fit on one page. Great game for having fun with your friends where crazy amounts of originality is rewarded. This is not a crunchy system, but is loads of fun when the hairdresser finds a way to use their skill in combat...

[@midshipman8654]

Specifically with the “without numbers” system, I like how the duel dice rolling system implies how you can have “chaotic engagements” and “measured engagements”. One thing that Ive thought about conceptually is how I could mechanically illustrate the “pace” of a scene. Stars without number doesn’t specifically state this, but I thought it would be cool to play longer form combats using skill roles. like if you want to defend a chokepoint over a 30 minute onslaught, or get through a bunch of mooks quickly, or executing a preplanned attack, you could use the 2d6 skill role in combat so you can feel the more cat and mouse nature of those protracted engagement types. And maybe vis versa you could try to use the d20 for a usually more down time skill in more hectic situations, like trying to convince someone in a hostage situation, or rewiring a ship thats T minus 3 minutes to crashing into a sun. It would be really interesting to see if that change in dice type would add to a sense of pace.

[@TheDarkestReign]

The Dice System is a tough thing to figure out for the right feel. I've been developing a Weird West type RPG system with the idea that it's really easy to jump into. My hope is that the system will then easily translate to any other setting, which is one of the hardest things to balance in terms of getting a certain "feel". The idea that using certain dice to get a certain feel in the game is the largest driver behind my design - I'm glad to know that if it ever gets published there will be people that will see and appreciate that aspect!

[@rontalkstabletop]

I've become partial to the EZD6 system. Roll a d6, looking for a target of 2-5. A boon gives you an extra die and you take the highest. A Bane is two dice take the lowest. Otherwise nostalgia gets me with that ole d20.

[@LD-gc4qg]

Very interesting. Thank you for sharing your major categories. I like it. Thanks

[@dougsundseth6904]

I consider both d20 and d100 systems to be fundamentally the same. They're both high-variance flat probability systems where you're rolling against some difficulty number. Whether that number is a DC20 with some number of bonuses or a 68% skill on your character sheet with (again) some number of penalties or advantages, it's much the same. Certainly I consider them about as similar to each other as GURPS/Hero 3d6 roll low and Traveller 2d6 roll high systems are to each other. At the limit of this sort of thing are games where you roll a single d6 against some target to determine success or failure. (That latter is not to my taste at all, but there are those who like it for their games.) There is a reasonable question as to when these differences in degree become differences in kind, and everyone may well draw that line in a different place. Mechanically, I'd consider a game like the original Seventh Sea RPG to be more qualitatively different. There we have a dice pool game with exploding dice and the amount by which your greatest success exceeds a target determines the degree of success. This promotes a wildness that works particularly well for the kind of cinematic results that (for instance) the swashbuckling genre thrives on.

[@jonathanpickles2946]

I was going to say the same thing. Certainly the stated downside of D20 (swinginess) applies equally to D100 systems. I would say the difference is more that in some systems you try to hit a target that your skill and abilities modify (MERP (IIRC) or D&D) and in others you roll against your skill which can be modified by the difficulty of the task (WFRP or Pendragon). That tends to bring its own issues as in the latter case often any adjustment gets overlooked.

[@fredericjaquet3729]

There was a french game called "Miles Christi", in which you play a templar, and the system was playing cards mechanized (so no, it's not a "dice system" per se). You had a pool of cards from which you drew a hand. The cards contained in the pool depended on the power of your character. You were to choose which card of your hand to play on an action (skill or combat) so you could keep the highest cards for more important moments, and the weakest ones for the lesser. In order to ask God for a miracle, you had to spare cards from your hand (hearts for a wonder of love, diamonds for a wonder of will, spades for a wonder of intelligence and clubs for a providence (more direct intervention of God). It was a fun system, but I don't know what were the outcomes regarding probs and stats.