4-TRACK BOUNCING TECHNIQUES: Infinite Ping Pong Recording | 424recording.com

[@424Recording]

From Live Stream #044 (kzbin.info/www/bejne/a2fKnZyleZWSn5o) everyone's predictions: Jay's was 10. Andrew's was 20. Twin's was 424, and then he said 7 or 8. Catface said 5 for quality. John said never if you're an early GBV fan. Schizo said 12. Twin takes it! (Thanks to Catface for locating the guesses!)

[@catface101]

Oh wow! I love the grit the later generations have! By the end you had 18 tracks in total, that's crazy.

[@424Recording]

Haha this one's for you! Yeah, I know, right? Pretty wild. I think this is the most ping ponging I've ever done. I feel like there's a sweet spot in there for that grit... I am a fan of each version though. It's super interesting to hear how the grit builds up. It's almost like bigger and bigger waves!

[@gameloozer731]

Very cool! I think the generation loss is overstated by a lot of people. Can definitely get away with a few bounces, especially on things like guitar and bass.

[@424Recording]

That's a great point. I agree. Especially if you're watching you're levels and bouncing carefully I think you can go pretty far into the infinite 🤓

[@davidreidy5750]

Dude I love that song you wrote!!🤖📡

[@unclestarwarssatchmo9848]

I think this technique requires you to prioritize which tracks you record in what order to preserve relative quality where it's needed or desired. Do you think tape speed could affect the quality loss of each generation? Lovely video man, keep it up!

[@424Recording]

Thanks, Blockman007! Will do. That's a good point. Def need to plan ahead if you're going to use this as a final recording. Hoping to do that in the future so this was a good test of how far you can go and what things sound like at each stage. I'm sure tape speed would have some effect. For instance, if you recorded at a slower setting with the pitch wheel down, I'm sure there would be more noise which would then be compounded during each generation. As a general rule, I always record with dbx off, tape speed high, and pitch wheel all the way up. That would make for an interesting comparison... thanks!

[@joepatterson1203]

I like the length of this video

[@424Recording]

I think I'm going to start trying to make them all this length 😁

[@yourunmarathons]

awesome mike, thanks for doing this, gives me a better idea of bouncing limitations!

[@424Recording]

My pleasure. Helped me a lot, too!

[@matteocampostrini2770]

Talking 'bout my loss geeeneration (great vid)

[@fifedonaghue4626]

Can you add tracks to a tape that has already been mixed down without the pre existing mixed down tracks turning into a muddy mess? Love your videos by the way, they are super helpful. Also, why do you record with dbx off?

[@424Recording]

Jim Lerario if you bounce the mix to a new part of the tape and record with the empty tracks it might help. The main issue it overcoming the noise floor that’s inherently added with each track. dbx compresses out the high and low end to eliminate some of the noise. There’s a larger frequency range available when you record with it off

[@goodtimefolkrock]

Generation loss is not as bad everyone thinks. This was excessive but bouncing when done right can sound not too too bad considering

[@424Recording]

Yeah! I always thought it would be worse as well. I might consider doing some more tracks for songs in the future now that I know a couple generations won't be too bad... what's the most you've ever done?

[@Johnnyguitar145]

Hey man! First of all great video! How is it possible to make more the one ping-pong technique and make multiple tracks? Thank you and keep the excelent work!

[@424Recording]

Do you mean like ping-pong in stereo? Thanks for watching! Had a lot of fun making this one! Or just how to ping-pong in general? I made this vid on how to ping-pong: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mYvEn3WvpM-Geas As long as you leave one track open, you can bounce all of the other tracks to that track and continue adding tracks. You keep recording over the past tracks and mixes. By the end of the vid, in Generation 7, there's 18 tracks on one mono track. Hope this helps!

[@Johnnyguitar145]

424 Recording thanks for The help! And keep bringing those sweet videos !

[@424Recording]

My pleasure. Will do! Thanks, again for watching!

[@titmusspaultpaul5]

424 Recording although they keep their stereo image even though they are on 1 mono track. So if you have panned 1 guitar hard left, and 1 hard right it will still sound that way even though it's not true sterio. It will still sound fantastic if you are carfull with all of your settings.

[@424Recording]

Yeah! I think the key is preplanning and carefulness haha. Well said!

[@titmusspaultpaul5]

Very interesting. I would say Generation 2 plus recording on the other 3 track would be as far as i would go. If you are mixing out to a cd recorder ( i use to do that when recording on/ from my 4 track) you can record a live instrument ( or 2 ) when recording to cd. I have done that in the past and obviously no loss as your not recording over any tracks. Just an idea so people can get that extra instrument or 2 and keep it sounding good. I sold my 4 track a few years back and have a Boss BR8 and a Boss BR800. Both great digital units and very close in use to my old 4 track. All the knobs close to hand and recording is much more fun and imediate on a tape or digital 4/ 8 track comoared to working on a pc. Do you have any stand alone digital units? Love your work and keep up the fantastic videos.... cheers mate.

[@424Recording]

I've done some recording on the digital units but do not own one at the moment. Def on the list if I can find one that fits the bill. I'm feeling the computerless process. I have a lot more fun. I was talking about that on the stream the other day... feels like computer recording is more serious, Idk, maybe it's just me. Something about the visual of the tracks being recorded messes with me. When it's just the red light and tape running, it's easier to be in the moment. Wow, that's high stakes, recording to the CD as it's recording! Super cool. I honestly couldn't believe the amount of distortion on those later generations; there's def a sweet spot in there. I think I could get away with Gen 2 +3; I don't ever really seem to have a need for many more tracks than that. I'll have to look into acquiring a digital unit at some point! Thanks for watching... will do! Cheers

[@Tazmanian_Ninja]

Definitely important to plan the order of instruments and vocals. F.e. record backing-vocals WAY earlier in the process, than the main vocal (which should be recorded last - as it needs to stand out the most, and be clearest). That way you'll almost use it to your advantage. I was recently SO close to buying a Tascam Porta Two. I used that as a 10-yo kid in the 80s (loaned to me / my mom), so I'd prefer getting THAT model, for the nostalgia. Alas, although the guy who wanted to sell it, had cleaned it inside out - the idiot hadn't fully tested it first! So after testing the inputs, faders, pots, etc - I realized it couldn't frickin' RECORD. ... Or, it could record... but wouldn't ERASE what was previously on the track. He even suggested I could use a blank tape each time 😂 ... And then he got mad at ME, like I was picky, not wanting to buy a 4-track that couldn't erase. I may be good. But I'm not THAT good 😅 I think most of us can't always get every take right THE FIRST TIME. He also tried to sell a DX21 for 1000 EUR - as it's "vintage" according to him 🙄 Some people...

[@424Recording]

That's a great tip, Ninja! I'm actually working on some stuff now and following that process without really thinking about it! Yes, that is a big issue with old 4-tracks. You gotta be careful. Good on you for testing it out. That's quite the issue and solution haha. New tape every time! Haha. You'll find one. Keep looking. Practice makes perfect, re: first take! Re: DX21 - It's a good thing you're an educated consumer; this guy would have taken you for a ride! Cheers and thanks for watching!

[@jonterhaar2573]

Wait - did you say that you can simultaneously record live to track 4 while you are pingponging 123 onto 4?!?! HOW?!?!?

[@jessefillmore]

Mike , have you tried a mix from a DAW into the four track then put down some stuff on a track on the 4track and back into the DAW . I'm wanting to try this method but if you or someone you know has any experience , it would be appreciated :)

[@424Recording]

I see you found the other vid, J-man. Cheers brotha!

[@kaislater9114]

Hey man, I know this is a year old vid, but could you do a video or just explain in depth how you do it so many times? I can’t see how its infinite. I have a Porta one and would love to do this on it

[@424Recording]

Yeah, sure. Looking for new topics for next year. I could definitely revive this. The idea is that as long as you have an open track, you can continue to bounce to that track. I stopped after 7 bounces but I could have kept going. So hypothetically you could bounce an infinite times as long as you keep overwriting your old tracks and leaving a track open to bounce to. Cheers, Kai. Happy holidays!

[@catface101]

You took notes from the stream of how many bounces ppl guessed right?

[@424Recording]

Yup! There's the live chat replay, too. We'll have to announce the winner this week haha

[@Reijerszen]

424 Recording hahaha I said 20 😬

[@424Recording]

Haha I think Jay said 10. I wanted to keep going but I was worried about the tape. "Unlistenable" is subjective, too. One person's unlistenable may be another's perfect. May have to take another trip into the infinite soon...

[@MikeFoerster]

I bounce twice, I don't know why, that's how I've always done it. Mainly because I'm out of instruments to record.

[@424Recording]

Yeah, that's kind of why I stopped when I did on this one. Ran out of ideas and instruments! I'm thinking somewhere in that 2-3 range is the magic number 🤓

[@leourtubey1723]

the songs kind of rock lol

[@bobbybobbinson]

I would leave the vocals for last. I think all the instruments sounded fine up to 7 but the vocals were clearly messed up

[@424Recording]

Good call, Max. I recorded them kind of hot to begin with, too, and they keep getting more distorted. Maybe another test is in order? Thanks for watching!

[@johnballantyne3458]

Wait a second. I know this video is pretty old, but just answer me this: was that all internal ping-ponging done on the 4-track or was there a DAW involved?

[@424Recording]

Yup, all bounced within the 4-track. Obviously, I had to bounce from the tape to the computer to use the audio for the video but it was all recorded and bounced on the tape

[@johnballantyne3458]

@@424Recording WOW! Thank you very much for replying to a comment on such an old video, but I really appreciate it. That's awesome. I was always under the impression that you can bounce once, maybe twice, and after that it's unusable. Guess not!

[@424Recording]

Same here. I want to try another video like this and go even further but I'm not sure I'd have enough parts in a song! Cheers and thanks for watching, John!

[@fratertater6130]

6 was about the limit for my ears.

[@424Recording]

Haha that's where I was at, too, Jody. Although I am curious to hear what 16 generations sounds like... I couldn't think of anymore parts to add! Thanks for watching!

[@dankbracken5656]

You are not wearing any pants in this video, are you? lol

[@424Recording]

LOL yeah July? Def no pants in this one haha

[@billjim334]

hey mike, billjim here, theres a 414 mkii on craigslist for $40, but it "needs a belt". what is the belt? is it a big deal? thanks

[@424Recording]

Hey billjim, check out this link: marrscommunications.com/tascam-cassette-and-r-r-belts Matt recently sent me that Nakamichi; same deal, got it for cheap, needed a belt. If that's truly what's wrong with it, sounds like an easy score

[@billjim334]

thanks!

[@424Recording]

bill jim my pleasure!

[@davidreidy5750]

I would probably max out at 6