4 Types of Anhedonia Schizoids Experience

[@JJ-rp2df]

Excellent breakdown of how decreased pleasure impairs goal prediction and setting, motivation to take action and interpersonal initiatives. Especially anticipatory anhedonia, akin to impaired reward anticipation. Quite often apathy, avoidance and dissociation are also self protective defences I find.

[@SchizoidVision]

Thanks, yes I agree with this: Quite often apathy, avoidance and dissociation are also self protective defences I find.

[@normanwatts7318]

Very interesting.

[@johnthompson4511]

I often experience a variety of combinations of anhedonia in various forms at different times, many of which I feel are caused by or correlate with dissociation, possibly multiple forms of dissociation at once. There is one form/combination of ahedonia in particular that I have been ruminating on lately; when engaging in certain activities, such researching, reading a book or watching a movie/TV show/documentary/YT video I experience consummatory anhedonia, however later after the experience is over and I begin to process it/reflect on it (often pacing back and forth) I then begin to enjoy the experience, or maybe I should say, rather than enjoying the inital experiencing itself, I enjoy the aftermath; the act of processing, dissecting, reflecting upon, digesting, or 'ruminating' on the information I have received from the initial experience. I feel this makes sense when it comes to researching/learning, while I often enjoy taking in new information when learning about a topic, sometimes consuming info can can be onerous, and un-stimulating; but regardless of weather or not I enjoy taking in the info, the real enjoyment is derived from the reflecting on/ processing of the info afterwards (putting the puzzle together/making new connections). I imagine this is not so unusual. I do however feel it is unusual to do this with the more 'empty calorie media' (fiction) such as when I read a novel that I dislike consuming, but enjoy reflecting on, or watching a tv series that is a burdensome slog to get through, yet garners my appreciation upon reflection. I also can experience something similar with some social interactions, though I feel that fo me this is typically more akin to something along the lines of humans needing some level of socialization to thrive, weather they like it or not, and I feel that many with schizoid, or autistic features experience something similar. I imagine for many individuals that experience some level of socialization anhedonia (weather the social anhedonia is an "inherent" feature or brought on by a complete absence of desirable company being available) is similar to being a saior that hates citrus fruit, but lives in a time period during which the only way to stave off scurvy was to consume lemons; they may not enjoy eating the lemon, but they feel better afterwards.

[@johnthompson4511]

Note: I don't always feel a lack of enjoyment when reading a book or watching TV I like, most forms of fiction I consume, are enjoyable to me in the moment most of the time as well as being enjoyable upon reflection; it's only sometimes or with some forms Of fictional media that the only enjoyment is derived afterwards. Typically if I don't enjoy consuming a novel/movie/series I won't enjoy it at all, but occasionally I will give up on a series or novel due to lack of enjoyment during consumption, only to discover that I do enjoy it upon reflection, and will then return to it with the understanding that the payoff comes afterwards

[@don-eb3fj]

@@johnthompson4511 I'm curious about your speculations as to what processes and what products they produce might be responsible for the "delayed gratification" you describe. Do you think you might be experiencing some unconscious or intuitive extraction process that sifts through the material to find relevant concepts or connections to previously processed material? Is this a wholly unconscious process or does it involve active thought or recall? During the "real time" consumption are you aware and bored, or dissociated, or in some other state? My own struggles with consuming content can involve either rumination or immediate forgetting after (and often during) viewing or reading, and more often than not requires many pauses and restarts due to dissociation in real time into an immersive second stream of thought that I often cannot recall the content of when returning to the moment, essentially leaving two "blank pages" for that period of time. Even weirder is that the content of either or both can find their way into my writing or recall later as knowing but not knowing how I know and being surprised at the knowing. My Ni and/or fragmented schizoid mind is so strange and confusingly profound for me even after 57 years mostly lived inside it.

[@SchizoidVision]

This is a very interesting and relatable comment. It makes a lot of sense in the context of schizoid dynamics. Our libidinal energy is attached to ideas, rather than the physical phenomena occurring, and so the ideas generated are interesting while the consumption of the external object can be a chore. I have experienced this myself. I can feel despondent about the process of taking in information, and can find it laborious, however, the resulting psychological stimulation from said material, upon reflection, is the reward... not the process of gaining it. You articulated this phenomenon well. Thank you for this well-considered comment.

[@SchizoidVision]

Don I relate to this a lot: My own struggles with consuming content can involve either rumination or immediate forgetting after (and often during) viewing or reading, and more often than not requires many pauses and restarts due to dissociation. I think that there's a lot of internal processing going on in the moment and the mind can wander off the external stimuli. I do think that Ni is in play here as well.

[@don-eb3fj]

@@SchizoidVision I've had an unsubstantiated thought about this that may have bearing and may be worth considering: I think my natural Ni (and Fe) tendencies were diverted to safety considerations in childhood, then suppressed by necessity to focus Ti and Se for work/survival activities, such that my more natural primary functions never got their full development or familiarity, so it's almost as if I've developed backwards psychologically (fitting I suppose for someone who was physically born backwards and late). I wonder how much that partial reversal of Primary and Inferior/Aspirational functions might have to do with the dissociation. It's as if there's a "civil war" for mastery going on that throws the psyche into disarray (I've heard this described as the Superego attempting to subvert the Ego, in this case each of which is too diffused to gain permanent Dominance). How might this relate to the libidinal/antilibidinal ego contest? I have always had access to my Ni, but usually in small (recreational) doses or used in service to sensory pursuits as required for survival, so perhaps I never trained or learned to trust Ni enough to allow it to lead? , and now that I'm exercising it more the usurper Se is staging a rebellion of sabotage and desertion? How to restore peace and cooperation in a house divided, with Fe and Ti torn and left to fend for themselves in the middle of a stalemate?

[@don-eb3fj]

Thanks for reposting this Penzy, it's a good reminder for me to revisit and re-examine the relationship between the various forms of anhedonia and the various other phenomena that make up the schizoid defense and potentially other reactions associated with other types of adaptations or neurodivergent traits. I experience all 4 types of anhedonia to varying degree that is somewhat dependent on context- for example, physical consummatory and anticipatory anhedonia are usually reduced in the presence of a "safe" social (consummatory) setting with a trusted other, and those encounters are sometimes desired (anticipatory) and pleasurable (consummatory), but rare due to the high "security" standards and threshold or tiny window of what is interesting or rewarding. I also have other mechanisms that may be unrelated to the schizoid defense and may indicate additional Avoidant adaptations derived from rejection fears- when security and acceptance are so co-related (especially in early childhood/infancy) it can be difficult to determine specific etiology, and leads to questioning if the difference is merely semantic. So few of us are inclined to discuss details of our experience so few examples of the inner perceptions of these mechanisms is available for comparison- I aim to be an outlier in that regard and am struggling to transcend my defenses and extricate myself from the twin horns of apathy and fear (and indications of a likely third autistic horn) enough to accomplish that goal soon. As my knowledge and confidence in my self-awareness grow I find a narrow gap in my defenses growing also, a dark alley between the obstacles. Among the most debilitating of my defensive reactions has been a form of dissociation that occurs in social situations that seems to be related to the "safety status" of the person/situation and inversely proportional to the desirability of the contact (if I don't like you, I don't mind being seen as an "asshole" or "weird", but my Fe prefers to keep the peace anyway) - it is an automatic and total mind blankness/confusion that renders speech impossible or unadvisable and in extreme cases involves severe derealization and depersonalization (I mentally withdraw/shrink.)I have also experienced delayed physiological effects (like elevated blood pressure, indicated by severe headache) without any awareness of anxiety in social situations. These episodes commonly precede a "vulnerability hangover" or severe onset of existential depression. I am still attempting to understand the connections and causal relationships between these defensive adaptations and reactions so they no longer impede my desire or pursuit of life goals (near total anhedonia/avolition). I use my Ni fantasy to explore my trauma adaptations through archetype, metaphor, and story, and recently had a realization through a brief scene that presages a confrontation to come: Ronin stands before the towering flame creature with the fiery lash, his raised Katana glowing with the blue-hot light of the Pleiades, amid the raging Storm and shattered cemetery monuments as thunder rolls - "YOU serve ME 'Ravenquill' !" No longer, the mission has changed, and I will be Master At Arms here!

[@SchizoidVision]

You have a great deal of self insight, and I relate to a lot of this through the lens of my own anhedonia, and cognitive functions. As an Ni user myself I find it a fascinating cognitive function. Thanks for sharing your perspective. P.S I am reposting some of the poignant videos related to schizoid issues from the past, that people may not have seen, and may benefit from watching.

[@don-eb3fj]

Glad to be able to contribute something of value, especially considering the amount of value your work has provided me and the impact it has on my abilty to grow my insight- it is no exaggeration when I state that I have learned more about myself since finding your channel 9ish months ago than in the previous 56 years. Thank you. Deal with it😉. It's a great idea to re-post those old links as a prompt for review and for potential new viewers. Sometimes Ni needs a cue from Se to click things into place- especially inside my rusty old teapot😊.

[@SchizoidVision]

Thanks Don 😊

[@juanvids]

Im going through a really bad physical anhedonia at the moment...to the point i think i'm going asexual 😢

[@don-eb3fj]

Sorry you're experiencing that, similar outcome here, been living with variations of it from my teens (but totally absent while I was married) as a product of demisexuality. Abstract desire is vaguely there but without a strong emotional bond with a trusted partner there's no motivation to act on it, and eventually the mind dissociates from desire altogether to avoid the anxiety. Jung had a lot to say about the Anima's role in (general and sexual) libido and attraction, and this seems promising as a way of approaching and grieving the early attachment injury that is a primary driver for my adaptations. Too early to see real results but my explorations have yielded some cognitive insights that may prove helpful. Hope that gives you some ideas and that you find your way through it.

[@sarvothamanbhimasenarao2263]

A possible cure for SPD is in Dvaita Vedanta philosophy where it says you are never alone. Each man's personal God is always with him as Atma and Antaratma

[@riverd537]

A cure? Stop…

[@Kurbaga618]

can you open this