4 Unpopular Facts About IVF

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Many believe IVF is a good option for parents struggling with fertility. Though medical advances have made conception through IVF possible, and though we celebrate every new human life that enters the world, there are many moral and human rights issues wrapped up in IVF that make the practice of IVF wrong. Today I make a case for why IVF is not a good practice, I give my thoughts on the Alabama Supreme Court Decision regarding IVF, and more.
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Timestamps:
00:00 My Interview With Jennifer Lahl
00:38 Infertility is Hard
01:15 IVF vs Adoption
2:46 High Death Rate
5:13 Multiples Implanted “Selective Reduction”
7:05 Female Hormone Therapy Issues
8:08 Screening Process for “Desirable Traits”

[@christinacanto3740]

I had infertility for six years after marriage. I investigated IVF a couple times, but even before my conversion to Christianity and eventually Catholicism I couldn’t bring myself to do it. It just never felt right. When I gave my life to Jesus, I got pregnant. Now I have two and a third on the way

[@StEvEn420BrUlE]

You're literally lying. Lying is a sin

[@kristenbasta6496]

I struggled with infertility for 10 years and kept getting pushed towards IVF by my doctors. It never felt right.

[@salemthorup9536]

The worst part of designer babies and the precepts of eugenics is that it prioritizes worldly things and not the things of God. While we don't want to glorify genetic problems or illness or disability, it is vital to not objectify and reduce those with these issues to lesser value.

[@SantosdeMuerte]

Reminds me of the lunch scene in Jurassic Park. “Your scientists worried so much whether or not that could, they didn’t stop and ask whether or not they should”.

[@jenniferflower9265]

Years ago, I had to have my left ovary removed. I wasn’t religious nor had any real opinion about abortion or ivf. While I was under I dreamed of a heavenly figure being near me and d a bunch of spirit babies in the room I was in. The heavenly figure was informing me how tons of abortions was being done there in that room and this nurse waiting on me was apart of it but also how it was evil murder but the nurse did not understand, truly understand what she was doing. I also had a sense that by removing my ovary that the potential of a human was being taken. I had it removed due to a huge cyst that was causing disabling pain. I went in and almost had to have the other one removed as well due to the same circumstances but found others who were solving their condition through diet. I tried it and solved my issues. I think doctors not informing women of the dietary conditions of their uterine problems and infertility problems is also evil. Leading women to believe all these hormonal problems can only be solved by fake hormones or surgery. I think dietary interventions should be a first go to before anything else.

[@th7654]

You say when you adopt it’s for the child but I don’t know. I thought people adopt, in many cases, because they want to raise a family. Without the desire of the people who want to adopt, adoption will not happen. And personally I don’t think it’s healthy to adopt only with a sense of mission. So I’m not convinced when you say IVF is selfish because they are doing it for themselves and adoption is selfless because it’s for the child.

[@antonianagels2658]

Totally agree

[@nathanfedoriuk1968]

My mother who already had 3 children of her own, decided to adopt me because she heard about a baby suffering from unfortunate circumstances (I was born out of sex work, suffering from crack cocaine withdrawals and left in the hospital because my biological mom knew she couldn’t care for me). Learning about all of this shaped my views on life’s sacredness and the absolute fluke of how I ended up being born. Even though the family I was raised with also had dysfunctional drug issues (my adoptive father suffered from severe opioid addiction) I’m still incredibly thankful to my mom and God for granting me this shot at life. You have stated, most but not all circumstances, adoption is a family wanting to raise a child of their own which is true. The beauty of adoption is, you’re providing the love and care for a child who would have grown up without that which we all know can lead to problems for the child. There most definitely is a level of selflessness to adoption, and it does vary with intent, but if you’re approaching adoption as wanting to love and care for a child who needs it rather than using them as a token of being a family to flaunt off to everyone, then that does seem like a selfless act.

[@th7654]

@@nathanfedoriuk1968 I do agree that adoption requires a level of selflessness and of course I fully agree adoption is a beautiful act. Your mother (who raised you) has done an amazing thing. But it has to come from the person’s heart and not something to be told by people because it sounds like a convenient option for the society. I just can’t wrap my head around the notion of “people who can’t conceive naturally must become ‘selfless’ because there are many children who are waiting to get adopted and you are selfish to pursue IVF to conceive your own child BUT those who can conceive naturally don’t need to become ‘selfless’ to go for adoption but that’s not selfish”. I understand that adoption sounds like a sensible option given the number of children waiting to get adopted but as someone who can’t conceive naturally, it feels like being treated as a convenient being to solve society’s problem.

[@Todo-y-Mas]

IVF is great for people like me who lost both fallopian tubes the only way I can get pregnant

[@Womb_to_Tomb_Apologetics]

Great stuff Lila. It's so true what you say about the focus on parents vs. children. 👌 I've got a livestream on the subject tonight if you wanna pop in!

[@byucatch22]

No actually it's not true. The case you and Lila are making can actually be made basically word for word to argue that *any* intended pregnancy is selfish, therefore adoption is the *only* way to have kids without being selfish. Oh, and unintended pregnancy isn't selfish because you didn't do it out of self-interest; it just happened.

[@spacecoyote55]

​@@byucatch22 Well... I'm kinda hearing their argument as a matter of ratios and so it would not be so selfish to conceive purposely in that case.

[@byucatch22]

@@spacecoyote55 I stand by my original comment - the case they are making can be made for literally anyone who wants to have a baby and successfully conceives.

[@thatsfunny2051]

Great stuff, Lila. Important to keep discussing this. People are either trying way too hard to have babies, or way too hard to avoid having them

[@josephbriggs6283]

Thanks for this Lila awesome work as always!

[@aenigmatica8]

Thank you for sharing this. Especially as people have children later and later. We don’t want to talk about eugenics but this is it. 😢

[@kristinmac4559]

Thank you for this Lila. As a side note The Pod Generation movie on Hulu is an excellent film to watch & perhaps share with the young people in your lives-it actually deals with a lot of these concepts about the hyper modernizing of motherhood and parenting beautifully

[@nochew]

Parents who don’t struggle with infertility and decide to wait past the window to conceive a child, do not think about their children. Hot take, we aren’t as selfless and it’s hard to sacrifice our own desires to have a family in our 20s. Commitment is now scary or rare. Life can come out of IVF but if you don’t need it, don’t do it. We can’t keep playing God and do whatever we want with life.

[@94jpmcc]

Yes life but mostly death

[@emilyl6746]

True, but these days many people do not have the emotional or financial capacity to have children in their 20s. Not everyone is that lucky. Moreover, there is nothing in scripture that prescribes an age limit to have children.

[@SJ-ru4ej]

Agreed. I had my first at 33 and even then, it was still a struggle. There’s no way it would have happened in my 20s/I wouldn’t have been as ready. I didn’t meet my husband until 32 and he was worth the wait. I just hadn’t met the man for me yet, prior.

[@stephenscotto5678]

49 abortions to get one delivery is demonic for any reason.

[@SamanthaRossiMusic]

Great video! Also Lila that colour is beautiful on you 😊

[@deec3561]

Thanks for a different perspective.

[@pedrogutierrez1547]

About the “How is IVF wrong? Aren’t you pro-life?” comment… The end (baby) is awesome. The means, however, is cringey. Highly immoral. “Brave New World” comes to mind every this subject comes up. My wife could not conceive after 17 years of marriage. My brother-in-law suggested IVF and I said “NO!”, then came a big argument. I don’t think our relationship has been the same since. To make a long story short, through St.JP2’s intercession, my wife finally conceived. Now, we have a 2 year old boy and a little girl on the way. I’m in my 50’s😅! God is good! I will say this, even if God would not given us children, we would still be thankful and offer it up. I was teaching catechism, educating children on the life issues, praying out in front of abortion clinics, and being a good Godparent when we had no children. It was very fulfilling. Believe me, the world needs spiritual parents too.

[@user-mq6tx2qq7v]

Never considered adopting?

[@pedrogutierrez1547]

@@user-mq6tx2qq7v Yes, but my wife pushed back against the idea out of fear of how the chid would possibly be treated within the family. Honestly, I don’t care what people think, but not everyone is there. I would still love to adopt a child. My wife, however, is not open to the idea… YET! Keep her in prayer for that intention.

[@newjerseylion4804]

So with adoption is also beneficial to the parents and their needs not only the adopted child. The second case is most embryos that are naturally conceived (60-70%) do not turn into fetuses. I don’t agree with abortion beyond 6 weeks because assigning personhood before that point means charging women with miscarriage with murder.

[@laikasveikti]

Thank you so much! 🌸

[@JoshuaP222]

Thank you so much Lila for speaking out and exposing the reality of ivf..and thank you so much for bringing up adoption as the Christian option! 🙏

[@th7654]

In a world where all children have their own parents or relatives to raise them, what should those who can’t conceive naturally do?

[@mcamiolo9880]

1. That world will never exist 2. There have always been people unable to conceive. Look at what they did

[@th7654]

@@mcamiolo9880 Thank you for your comment. My point was not whether or not that world will ever exist. I genuinely wondered. I don’t mean to offend you but to say people should keep managing infertility the same way people have been in the past because that’s how it has been sounds like thought stagnation to me.

[@glendamariamejia-nb5ce]

Good job!

[@JoeReid10001]

Respect ❤

[@user-mq6tx2qq7v]

When i married my husband. I was told by his family that he couldn’t have kids. I said no problem I would love to adopt. Never in my mind did i think about going to a clinic to have a child I believe it is selfish. I also believe “surgerate”(however it’s spelled) is also selfish. So many children out there to adopt but humans are incredibly selfish the excuse I always get is “Its HaRd tO aDoPt” “I cAnT aFfOrD iT” 🙄🙄🙄 how come my state was supportive and offered to help me and many other who decided to adopt it’s just excuses.

[@user-mq6tx2qq7v]

And it’s CA the most “woke” state.

[@bhanuprasad8983]

Mam in this social media people cant connect with it,so real initiative would be communication with women and girls with facts and victims of it

[@Tiger-vv5vm]

Used to watch them when i was younger because whay child soesnt want to watch anything and everything of content the internet has to offer, and when they put out their baby searching id become a mother myself and wow it rubbed me in my soul so wrong. And there wasnt much backlash as far as i recall

[@JohnHenrysaysHi]

Thank you for sharing this segment from the podcast. It was very sad but important to hear. Praying for anyone who struggles with infertility. When Mother Mary was pregnant with Jesus, she went on an about eighty mile joyous journey to visit her cousin Elizabeth in her hour of need, Elizabeth said referencing her tiny child in her womb John the Baptist who was conceived when she was in old age: Luke 1:41-44 "When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit, cried out in a loud voice and said, “Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? "The most important person on earth is a mother. She cannot claim the honor of having built Notre Dame Cathedral. She need not. She has built something more magnificent than any cathedral -a dwelling for an immortal soul, the tiny perfection of her baby's body. . . The angels have not been blessed with such a grace. They cannot share in God's creative miracle to bring new saints to Heaven. Only a human mother can. Mothers are closer to God the Creator than any other creature; God joins forces with mothers in performing this act of creation. .. What on God's good earth is more glorious than this: to be a mother?" -Joseph Cardinal Mindszenty Psalm 139:13-16 You formed my inmost being; you knit me in my mother’s womb. I praise you, because I am wonderfully made; wonderful are your works! My very self you know. My bones are not hidden from you, When I was being made in secret, fashioned in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw me unformed; in your book all are written down; my days were shaped, before one came to be.

[@xelazigadenus]

I think the abortion and IVF industries are both responsible for society thinking that embryos are not to be valued the same as fetuses despite the two being different simply because of their stage in development. If the IVF industry is allowing clients to freeze or discard (or donate) their embryos, they’re allowing people to assign value which is the exact same as the abortion industry. So it isn’t pushing the abortion matter too far to say it’s the same. Because it literally is. (Except the abortion industry is better at pushing the “it’s just a pregnancy” thing instead of “it’s a baby” thing) Sure, it’d be nice to assume that when people pursue IVF, it’s a couple who can’t have children naturally but are so committed to wanting children that this is their last option and so they make one embryo and that’s their baby so happily ever after… but the truth is, a lot of death and suffering comes from this process. The abortion industry alike preys on people in a stressful and compromised position under the guise of supporting what is best for them and their “family planning.” If someone can conceive an embryo bc of IVF and celebrate it and then on the other end someone can discard their embryo because of any reason whatsoever, how is that any different than the abortion industry? The scary problem with IVF is that labs are manufacturing multiple embryos which is an unrealistic expectation for future parents to prepare for so that’s why so many are frozen or discarded. So why do we decide IVF is ok but abortion isn’t if we’re pro life?? 🤔

[@SparksFly87]

*_Thank you! I couldn't agree more!_* 👏

[@antonianagels2658]

because conception is not just fertilisation, it's the early stage embryo becoming embedded in the womb and having life blood supply from the Mother. That's why a woman is said to conceive. it's just not that simple... not implanting an embryo is not the same as abortion. We can't even work out with modern science why only 65% of chromosomally tested & normal embryos implant to become an early pregnancy... Nothing is a given in life and everything is a gift Agree with you about putting value on embryos though. Going through a frozen embryo transfer is a lot of effort and you have to be 100% ready for either outcome. I understand why people don't use their excess embryos and it's it's great there are some Christian embryo adoption facility options in America, although sadly under utilised by the sounds of it.

[@dvbibbs192]

I don't know, go ask Lila how her IVF process went. People like Lila are having babies well into their 30s for a myraid of valid reasons. It's the couples business and not every embryo becomes a baby. Do you think then that women who have a miscarriage after an embryo transfer should be prosecuted? Let people who want biological babies have their babies, it accounts for 3% of births now and couples with bio kids can adopt too if their heart desires which I doubt Lila would ever adopt (not very pro-life of her).

[@xelazigadenus]

@@antonianagels2658 My point is that the industries prey on people the same way. It’s exploitative. But I understand your point. I definitely want to research more about adoption process for embryos cause that is interesting.

[@xelazigadenus]

@@dvbibbs192 Where has she said she has gone through IVF? I’ve not seen any coverage on that. I’d appreciate you highlighting a source for me. As for your point about prosecution for embryos not taking, I don’t think that makes sense. I think the industry should be held accountable. They’re using big pharma as a means to tell people they can do anything science has to offer when the risks/benefits are not outlined well for a lot of these people who are most of the time under duress trying to have a child. Big picture, my friend.

[@pavlinakom]

Lila, I am trying to get in touch with Live 24, but they wouldn't respond to any of the e- mails. Could you please help me to find resources about the hypothetical situation, that the mother's mental health is in serious jeopardy, if continuing the pregnancy to full term? I am concluding my thesis. Abortions it the armed conflict context. Thank you for everything all of you are doing for all of us. We pray for you. Many of us pray for you. Would you possibly be interested in taking part to a Conference in Greece concearning abortions?

[@denisebohorquez132]

Is IUI also immoral ? Can you do a video on that please?

[@JMTDF]

Wife has a pituitary tumour and we experienced issues as a result. We’re so grateful for IUI, IVF and the hormones used. It wasn’t easy on my wife but we’ve been blessed with two beautiful sons! We highly recommend it and are so happy.

[@avneetisabellahimebaugh9366]

Congrats for the blessing of life.

[@ShiniGuraiJoker]

Without IVF, my best friend would not have their second child.

[@angeldeath4173]

Life is precious no matter how they are conceived. This argument for IVF would be the same as saying “my best friend would not have had her second child if she wasn’t r*ped”….so does that make it a good thing?

[@ShiniGuraiJoker]

@@angeldeath4173 You conflate a maliciously intentional act and equate it to one that was meant to help pregnancy. I don't engage in false equivalences. So my best friend and his wife utilized IFV with their own egg and superm, and my buddies wife was the who became pregnant. How was this equivalent to rape?

[@luthasunspell8365]

My dear friend had a child using IVF. She didn’t understand until afterward she actually had *ten* children. They killed eight in a freezer and one died in her womb. Her son is the sole survivor. That’s not good for the mom or the children.

[@deec3561]

How do you know? My friend went through ivf, gave up, then conceived naturally years later. You never know

[@angeldeath4173]

⁠@@ShiniGuraiJokeryou’re right, IVF is actually more equivalent to murder than r*pe. If I were to purposely put children in in harms way knowing that 80% of them will be killed because I want to be pregnant is WRONG. Just because science is capable of doing something doesn’t make it morally right. Science is A-moral. It doesn’t have morality. We have to apply morality to it. Science is capable of inverting a penis so a man can appear like a woman, does that make it right?

[@catherinemann3378]

Unsure why paradise as chance for missed life redo isn't explored more in movies or books...feel it has history to all cultures & spiritual expression to future in eternity with God's Personhood. To me not denied human experiences by the Father, as given fulfillment to your heart's desires. We all know it is work to do human life opportunities...and they are treasure. And via a Medjugorje visionary witness, those in afterlife grow beautiful longer to that place in heaven. So in my opinion living the walk of eating sleeping caring for things unfrustrated. For direction about how to not harm creation in married life...there is a beautiful Roman Catholic resource in the 1968 papal encyclical Humanae vitae.

[@byucatch22]

so let me get this straight - wanting to have a child is, by Lila's calculation, selfish because the parents want something for themselves. Adoption, by Lila's calculation, is wanting to do something for the child and the parents' desired don't come into play. So by this assessment, any parents who want to have children, who then *intentionally conceive* children, have done so selfishly. So adoption is the only way to selflessly have a child. Oh and *unintentionally* getting pregnant gets around the selfish parent conundrum as well, because they weren't selfishly wanting to have a child when they conceived.

[@roseupland5140]

Lila explained why IVF is dangerous and is yet another form of infant fatality in our culture of death all for a set of parents to lab-create and purchase their own biological baby and/or designer baby. While murdering and/or freezing their other babies indefinitely. Sounds pretty selfish to me too when countless children today are abandoned and in need of adopting. Shouldn’t a childless couple seek to help an orphaned child so all parties heal their lost family desires?

[@spacecoyote55]

Ratios! How many need to die at our hand for the one we take home? *That* is how IVF is a selfish way to start/add to your family. Natural conception is a tried and true way to maintain our species but it, sadly, doesn't work out for all of us. To say, "I want MY genetics in this person and I'm willing to have other lives terminated in order to *try",* well, I just can't wrap my brain around that- certainly not in this chapter of the story of humanity. I've heard of barriers to adoption such as rules regarding relationship status/history and the like in some countries, but adoption makes a heck of a lot of sense if you're not abiding by your preconceived notions of how your family should be composed. You can hold on to that belief that unintended pregnancies are the only "unselfish" way to have a child, though. I see it being a bit selfish if you were not prepared for consequences of appeasing your sexual desires and it results in conception... but maybe that's a can of worms for another day.

[@alley2023]

@byucatch22 What is selfish is purchasing the means to biologically engineer a designer baby, playing God. Instead of creating one naturally with a loving spouse or helping one of the thousands already here in need of a loving home. Children are not commodities to be bought and sold to suit our desires.

[@byucatch22]

@@alley2023 I'm sorry, I don't think you actually know much about IVF. There is nothing biologically engineered about an IVF baby. It is literally the natural egg (or ovum) from the female and the natural sperm from the male. Those two things, and only those two things, produce the embryo (more correctly a zygote), which is then inserted back into the uterus for implantation. Parents doing IVF are 'playing god' as much as someone on an artificial heart or a catheter are. But the weirdest thing about your comment is that you somehow seem to think that a couple doing IVF is doing it out of choice.

[@byucatch22]

@@alley2023 setting aside the fact that nothing about IVF involves biological engineering, the most odd thing about your comment is that you believe people doing IVF are doing it by choice.

[@rager4able]

1. What argument are you trying to make w/ the comparison of adoption and IVF??? 2. So you’re basically saying there are problems around IVF but now IVF itself…

[@alley2023]

1.Adoption helps a needy child already in existence. IVF turns a child into a profitable commodity to be designed and discarded based solely on the desires of the buyer. 2. Yes there are many ethical issues surrounding IVF. Child are not commodities to be bought, sold or biologically engineered on the whim of an adults desire to play God.

[@rager4able]

@alley2023 1. She's arguing apples and oranges. 2. Like I said, there may be other issues surrounding IVF but IVF ISNT a problem in of itself.

[@th7654]

I see there are issues around IVF but to hear it is selfish to have IVF is very hurtful.

[@alley2023]

The selfish aspect is intentionally creating a new human life when there are well over 100k newborn children needing adoption.

[@th7654]

@@alley2023 Ok. So then is she suggesting anyone intentionally trying to conceive is selfish? That we should all stop conceiving until everyone is adopted?

[@thefuturista7836]

@@alley2023 If you knew anything about adoption you would know that adoption is a last resort for every child. As soon as an underdeveloped country rises it stops international adoption for example. Adoption is a wonderful thing but also a last resort for every child. It is always better for a society to try to help families so that they don’t need to put their children up for adoption. As more countries rise out of poverty less children will be available for adoption, that’s a good thing for the children. Children in the foster care system also do much better in life if they can eventually be reunited with their parents, grandparents or other family members. Adoption is only a last resort, it’s not what’s best for the child. What’s best for the children is that they aren’t separated from their families for life. If you are pro life you need to know these facts and not be so quick to think infertile couples should just adopt instead. There has been less and less children available for adoption around the world over recent years and this trend will continue as things get better.

[@victoriaeinbinder9487]

Correct about adoption. However, IVF is human trafficking. It's inherently evil because it separates the unitive and the procreative components of the marital act. This is the same reason contraception is immoral. While there can be good results from IVF, (these children are precious and loved!) the long-term societal consequences (which ultimately and ironically is a devaluing of human life) prove the moral difficulty. One cannot do evil so that good may result.

[@dvbibbs192]

Hi Lila, how's your IVF baby doing?

[@mmast7554]

Pet shopping 🛒

[@kibbykibby]

Yeah i dont agree with same sex parenting but when you pick a husband or wife, you are also essentially shopping. So i get what you're saying but i dont think its very poignant.

[@mcamiolo9880]

I also shop for my car, house, friends, college, job. Shopping for those is fine so shopping for offspring must be fine as well😂

[@KristenLoren]

Shame on you for painting helpful and safe medical care as 100% wrong because you personally have never experienced infertility. IVF is not appropriate or moral in all circumstances but for some it absolutely is.

[@mrsgoemans-leith]

Helpful and safe for who? For the baby being conceived? I don't think so... That's the point and that's why Lila's stance has to be the prolife stance at the end of the day

[@mcamiolo9880]

Please address the arguments and not use adhomonym attacks. That discussion will be more productive

[@byucatch22]

Lila - you and I probably agree on most issues (I'm not sure about that because I've only seen a few of your videos) but you trying to position yourself as having some moral insight into the decision that a couple labors over, prays over, cries over, and agonizes over as to whether they should adopt or try every possible way to conceive (and IVF is usually what happens after they've spent years trying everything else) is really pretty sickening.

[@94jpmcc]

How can you object to these facts? If you disagree that life begins at conception and should be protected, then you obviously don't agree with Lila Rose.

[@byucatch22]

@@94jpmcc You're right, I don't agree with her when she says babies are frozen in freezers because of IVF. We can't begin acting as if every embryo carries the same value as a fetus. It's the bridge too far. We've gone so far in our fight against abortion that we're reaching for the extreme limits and I'm not willing to follow along that far. It's like someone in the 60's saying we need to not be racist (great idea) and a few decades later we're burning down police precincts shouting "defund the police" (terrible idea). The pro-life movement are reaching their 'defund the police' zone.

[@roseupland5140]

@@byucatch22 You are literally not pro-life then if you don’t believe a viable embryo is as valuable as a full-term baby. You are no different than the pro-abortionists who murder children in the womb at 12-14 weeks. As pro-lifers we’re drawing the line and keeping it constant because it’s true: life begins at conception. Full stop.

[@xelazigadenus]

⁠​⁠@@byucatch22 I think the abortion and IVF industries are both responsible for society thinking that embryos are not to be valued the same as fetuses despite the two being different simply because of their stage in development. If the IVF industry is allowing clients to freeze or discard (or donate) their embryos, they’re allowing people to assign value which is the exact same as the abortion industry. So it isn’t pushing the abortion matter too far to say it’s the same. Because it literally is.

[@byucatch22]

@@xelazigadenus And the 'defund the police' people will declare just as ardently that their stance is equally justified. Look, obviously this is the natural conclusion when we took the absolute stance that *without exception*; one, life begins at conception (hard to argue this point since there is absolutely a definition of 'life' that fits) and two, all life must be treated absolutely as equal value to any other stage of life. I can't follow you guys to this point. That's saying that a zygote must be held equal to the mother, the father, anyone. It simply doesn't equate. No part of me believes this. If anyone had to choose between saving their 8 yr old or their frozen embryo, no one, and I mean even the most dug in 'save all embryos' person would even think twice. So I don't know why we're digging in on this. Embryos simply don't have the same value as a fetus. No one actually believes that because no one would save the embryo over the fetus.

[@byucatch22]

Honestly, I've been a hard core pro-lifer my whole adult life, but this stance that 'my team' is taking regarding embryos and abortion is way too far. It's like the 'defund the police' was for several people on the left. I can't go along with this line of thinking or action.

[@94jpmcc]

"Hard core pro lifer" but bloody (as it clearly is) IVF is ok? What about all the children murdered in the process? Are you only anti-abortion in some specific cases? Do you condemn some but exonerate others, because the latters' intention is the "desire to have a baby"? That's not morality, that's sentimentality.

[@byucatch22]

@@94jpmcc well see while I've been very pro-life my whole adult life, I find that the movement has moved beyond what I consider rational. Let me ask you this - if someone tries to get pregnant, succeeds, but the embryo or fetus dies, have the parents done something wrong? Afterall, they intentionally brought life into the world but couldn't sustain it. So were they negligent to some degree?

[@alley2023]

​@byucatch22 The negligence of IVF is in the intentional "holding" of life in a frozen state until one can afford or is "ready" to "try" again. Defend the police and being anti-racist are not two sides of the same coin; Abortion and IVF are, one is discarding undesirable babies, and the other is desiring unnaturally conceived babies. Both abortion and IVF turn the miracle of conception into a profitable industry one by killing the other by "creating" perfectly biologically engineered babies. The other (IVF) just hides behind its success stories never highlighting the harm it does to all involved parents and children alike. More babies die and more women are harmed by the IVF process than anyone is willing to admit but Lila is shining light on these harms.

[@americandropbear5081]

@@byucatch22Because one scenario is involuntary and the other one is voluntary destruction of life.

[@danielladaurizio9692]

Soon theyre going to scream that sperm and eggs should have rights and then it will be illegal for women to have periods.

[@Will97675]

A lot of couples don’t want to adopt. Some couples want to have a child of their own.

[@angeldeath4173]

Some couples are selfish as heck.

[@michellemartin5440]

And sometimes that's the cross God is calling them to bear (infertility).

[@byucatch22]

yeah, because wanting to have your own children is obviously selfish. Did you want to have your own children or did you take the moral high ground of either adopting or unintentionally having children? (couldn't have been selfish if it happened accidentally)@@angeldeath4173

[@byucatch22]

I saw a person in a wheelchair and was pretty disappointed that they hadn't accepted the cross of immobility. So I walked up and told them so.@@michellemartin5440

[@byucatch22]

@@angeldeath4173 yes - wanting your own children is obviously selfish. I'm sure you didn't stoop so low.