4680 Battery Pack: What We Found Under the Foam!

[@MunroLive]

Limited Edition Pink Foam of Death Tee! Buy Now: munro-live-store.creator-spring.com/listing/pink-foam-of-death-band-tee

[@turbinex_generators]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/lXTLmplrjcmBosU

[@medawson01]

I just love your videos, and I'm not an engineer. I'm just a 77 year-old grandmother waiting for my Tesla 3 RWD to be delivered this September. I'm so impressed with the Tesla technology. Can't wait for the next video!

[@MunroLive]

Hi Marguerite! thanks for watching.

[@johnreese3762]

Smart lady!

[@ShopKeepArty]

I camp in my tesla from time to time at great viewpoints then sketch/paint the views! It’s awesome 😎

[@MrCarGuy]

@@cathyjones4702 That's not exactly true

[@JBoy340a]

Once you go EV, you will never go back. Especially a Tesla with it's easy, reliable, and fast charging.

[@MikeHeller]

Following along with the tear down, very interesting. I will note that liquid nitrogen is no where near absolute zero, it's −196 °C (− 320 °F, 77 K). That may be cold enough for this recycling process but if you really want closer to absolute zero you need liquid helium which is -269 °C (−452 °F, 4 K).

[@Narcissist86]

No one will be wasting helium to cool down batteries for recycling.

[@KenLord]

ya, the details were off - the low temperature isn't so that the materials can shatter, the low temperature stops or greatly slows down the chemical reactions - so that crushing it doesn't just short everything out and cause a thermal runaway from the residual charges in the batteries. Every drop in temp by 10 degrees C, halves the chemical reaction rate.

[@ParameterGrenze]

@@KenLord Actually, the low temperature of a liquid nitrogen bath is used to make composite materials brittle order to crush them. The cold temperature serves two main functions in order to brake complex artifacts apart: First the different expansion coefficients of each material breaks them apart at their contact surfaces because of different rates of contraction. Secondly, the cold temperature makes most amorphous polymers very brittle when a certain threshold temperature is reached, called the glas transition temperature tg. Most rubbery materials will become so brittle that a slight hammer stroke will pulverize them. So in the end, when you expose something like this battery pack to liquid nitrogen and than start hammering it I guess that pink polymer stuff will just pulverize immediately and the metallic components will fall apart into pieces that are made of aluminum, coper, steel aso

[@KenLord]

@@ParameterGrenze ok cool ... BUT LITERALLY NO. It's about not causing a thermal runaway from shorting out the residual charges in the batteries. After that it's just a freaking jaw crusher, or multiple stages of commonplace crushing equipment chewing away at it all. You learn about how temperature affects reaction rates (Every 10 deg C cooler halves the rate) in high school chemistry, or at the latest in 100 level university chemistry. There's nothing inherently difficult about pulverizing the materials that would require that it be so cold to enable it to shatter. This stuff isn't Vibranium. The prototype liquid nitrogen system made by a startup company was shown off in a Now You Know episode a year or two ago, with the purpose of it all being exactly what I've described. I'd provide the link if I had it.

[@stevenf1678]

@@ParameterGrenze My understanding is that recycling tires involves freezing the tire with liquid nitrogen and crushing it to separate the metal belts from the rubber.

[@johnpoldo8817]

There must be thousands of engineers like me really enjoying these videos. Thank you Cory & Sandy!

[@GuyFromGeorgia]

Well, I'm not an engineer but I sure enjoyed their seeming amazement at what they're trying to take apart. And hats off to Elon! He's upended the need for a patent. I mean, if someone can't break down your contraption to figure out how it works, why get a patent?

[@michaelnoble2432]

And even more engineers (like me) who wince at the clueless statements such as the claim that liquid nitrogen is "just a little bit above absolute zero".

[@jamesdaniel947]

Well, I am not a professional engineer, although I played one in Transportation and Environmental Protection for state government. I have been taking things apart to see how they worked since I was a child. Sometimes I had to get my very smart father to help me get it back together again, but I was learning. I get the feeling that these guys (and many who watch them) had a similar background before they went to college in engineering.

[@Enemji]

This is a time when someone took Munro’s advise and pushed it so far that even Munro is feeling the shock

[@MajorMinorGolf]

Hahaha the total miss of Talladega Knights reference is peak Sandy. Don't ever start feeling lucky btw Sandy, glad you guys always play it safe!

[@KCJbomberFTW]

Nights

[@KCJbomberFTW]

Actually Knights makes more sense with that movie honestly

[@snazzy]

You’ve now made me want a medieval version of Talladega Nights but instead of NASCAR it’s jousting.

[@KCJbomberFTW]

@@snazzy Alabama Jousting with a gay Frenchman 🤣

[@MajorMinorGolf]

@@KCJbomberFTW oh my goodness, no kidding you have informed me that it's Nights lol and yeah! That's exactly why I thought it was Knights, two courageous Knights lol

[@FarzadMediaINC]

Shoutout to Cory looking FIT! Also thank you as always gentlemen for your hard work!

[@MunroLive]

Thanks Farzad! Cory is down 40lbs.

[@eclecticcyclist]

@@MunroLive The key is reducing refined carbohydrate intake.

[@FarzadMediaINC]

@@MunroLive good for him! Nebraska might need his help this year to get to 12-0.

[@1Jbeats]

Sandy's fat jokes finally got to him. :(

[@ProbeGT2]

He's reduced his consumption of threaded fatteners 😅

[@Stefan_Dahn]

0:10 Blasted away with dry ice, like I suggested.👍 You're welcome.😁 Greetings from Stefan in Germany. 🇩🇪🤝🇺🇲 Thanks from the great video again! 👌

[@MunroLive]

Thanks for the tip!

[@Stefan_Dahn]

@@MunroLiveI can feel the hard "archealogical" work you are going through. I'm glad my tiny hint helped you a bit. Keep going Munro team! 👍👍

[@christopherleubner6633]

I recognize that pink foam. It is a silicone and mica powder material. It isnt too hard to remove a little, but this much is crazy. I had some LSI nitrogen laser heads filled with this stuff. It can hold off a lot of volts.❤.

[@joergmargraf4290]

Danke!

[@allenrout]

Liquid Nitrogen is -196C. 80 degrees higher than absolute zero. And ... atoms don't "fall apart" if they get too cold. I know chilling the packs for grinding is a useful tactic; but that hurt to hear.

[@Muonium1]

I cringed a bit. also, don't they have an FTIR for plastic ID??

[@RotorWorks]

Maybe discharge to zero and grind them down in a normal crusher plant?

[@williamvaughan1218]

Cooling it down makes I brittle therefore better for grinding to a powder.

[@paul_vlad]

Surprised at this knowledge gap. Very cringy indeed.

[@scottgaree7667]

@@RotorWorks Batteries coming in for recycling stand a good chance of being damaged, so discharging might not be possible. Freezing does greatly limit the potential discharge rate, so avoids the thermal event with visual indications.

[@airheart1]

Sounds like Sandy needs a Talladega night! Movie night at Munro! Lol

[@tianjohan4633]

You guys rock hard. Keep picking at the pack and sharing.

[@JB-dv7ew]

Yes I'm rock hard from this.

[@mcgch46e80]

Thanks!

[@MunroLive]

Thank you!

[@MunroLive]

Thank you!

[@dukequack6209]

Its good to see Cory growing into his own and taking the lead more and more, especially highlighted when Sandy was away and he was the main driver of these video reports. Side note: The structural pack sure is intense.

[@phantommedia9964]

And now he’s Chief Engineer at Lucid

[@tangent2658]

Have you tested the thermal dissipation qualities of the pink foam?

[@ick5353]

Thank you for sharing the insights you glean from your hard work with your audience for free! LOL! Love the Rocky Bobby reference at the end!

[@skipondowntheroad5833]

Rocky Bobby? Is that the boxing brother of Ricky Bobby?

[@ick5353]

@@skipondowntheroad5833 LOL meant to type Ricky.

[@DIZZYDAZZLER2011]

I really do love this gentleman's explanation on how to recycle this battery once its dead, learn something new everyday. Thumbs up!!

[@kirbysadventures8000]

So happy sandy explained the recycling process.

[@NextGenEvs]

You should make a dedicated video explaining the recycling process. Would be great to have an easily shareable video to address the huge misconceptions going around. Sandy’s explanation was fantastic

[@KDR816]

How would they know? They are not recycling specialists. We have only the Elon's twit about it so far

[@Jushwa]

Oh they just bury the pack in the ground that’s it

[@anonym3017]

Here’s how VW does it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gnKlqKqObptjo80 Shredder instead of grinder, no LN, cyclotron instead of floating separation the rest is the same.

[@anonym3017]

@@Jushwa yeah let’s just burry a few grand worth of raw materials in the ground.

[@KenLord]

A small startup prototyped the liquid nitrogen system a few years ago. The temperature isn't dropped to make the materials shatter more easily ... it's dropped to stop or greatly reduce the chemical reaction rate, so that crushing and tearing apart the battery doesn't cause a thermal runaway from the residual charges. Every 10 degrees C drop in temperature halves the chemical reaction rate. So it simply won't be necessary to manually disassemble each pack and module bolt by bolt, the way some are doing right now. Floatation cells have been used in the mills at base metal mines for probably a hundred years. Crushed ore goes in, high grade concentrate comes out. Chemicals in the slurry control how different materials float to the top in the floatation cells at each stage of the circuit, to separate different materials.

[@MrBadgas]

Another great episode of “Engineering Archeology”. Dig it.

[@JBoy340a]

Or "what the heck does that do?"

[@MrBadgas]

@@JBoy340a “it sucks in air”…..”that’s definitely suck’n

[@144Donn]

I am sure Tesla Engineers are watching this and having a very satisfying chuckle as the the pride wells up in them for having stumped Sandy and co.

[@movingforward20]

I would like to see easily replaceable battery modules or cells. Say 12 years after the vehicle was bought, something goes wrong with the battery. It would be nice to be able to replace any bad cell, for a much lower cost than the entire pack. They can put something like CellBlockEx between the cells to help keep the batteries cool, in addition to the standard thermal management for cooling / heating that the Tesla li-ion battery packs have. I am glad that recycling should not be difficult for these at the end of the pack's useful life. I hope that would happen well after 20 or 30 years.

[@RParmable]

Just received my Tesla 3 RWD . It’s a total thrill to drive. The acceleration is next to none. It feels amazing to be part of the transformation to clean and sustainable energy. Im as happy as a kid at Christmas 🎄

[@stefan2796]

Where was the electricity which you use, generated? Most Tesla's drive on coal or nuclear energy...

[@2pop39]

@stefan2796 Switch cars to EVs -> Flip the switch to make the grid green/sustainable You can’t just switch to “green gasoline” for a combustion car

[@phxees]

Thanks for addressing recycling!

[@BillyLapTop]

I like the liquid nitrogen hypothesis. It seems to conform to Elon's approach for simplicity.

[@turbinex_generators]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/lXTLmplrjcmBosU

[@nicks-fix]

The “bee’s nest” looks like the collector output for the individual abs base caps for each of the cells. The gas from an over charged cell needs to go somewhere.

[@vaibhavdlv]

As a software engineer but still a tinkerer with hardware, I really appreciate bringing in the point of recycling such a highly-advanced and highly-integrated product. I think it's time governments worldwide spent a good amount of money on improving recycling technologies.

[@AsbestosMuffins]

this is not recyclable, idk what musk was smoking but gluing everything together like this makes it impossible for DIY and small shops and now also makes it very difficult for a scrapper to shred

[@Fatum0722]

Munro rock, no one ever could imagination what is inside without You guys, Big thanks for sharing !

[@NarutoUzamaki070]

You guys are awesome! Its amazing to see the 4680 pack like that. Cant wait for more MUNRO LIVE!

[@NeilBoltonRSPL]

Thanks for describing the simplicity of the recycling process, and the big lump of nearly pure ore that constitutes the battery.

[@PikaPilot]

thank you for addressing the recycling concerns! I found it very annoying how much people were confusing service-ability with recycling-ability. Keep up the fascinating work!

[@TheFPSPower]

It's still a concern because it's Reduce> Reuse > Recycle and Tesla is straight up deleting the Reuse possibility, you can't scavenge good modules to put in another car that needs it, if a few cells fail this whole thing needs to be replaced for a stupid amount of money.

[@PikaPilot]

@@TheFPSPower the whole point of having so many cells is that some can fail while the rest of the pack can carry on. by the time the battery pack is unfit for use, there is nothing of interest that can be reused, and the sheer amount of nickel within these packs means that it is more productive to recycle than reuse. keep in mind, it takes some seriously good engineering to design something that is used so thoroughly that by the time it is at the end of its lifespan, there is nothing to reuse.

[@anonym3017]

@@TheFPSPower yeah only exchanging one module in a Tesla battery isn’t a viable solution anyway as the BMS is unable to balance new and old leading to another module biting the dust quickly. And it can still be used in stationary energy storage if the pack works.

[@thezs5]

Thanks guys! Keeping tearing this puppy apart!!! Love your videos!

[@noobcaekk]

HAHAHA The Ricky Bobby reference at the end and Sandy's reaction were gold. Great video, super excited for the future of this teardown!

[@10melvis]

Thank you for these informative tear down videos. Learn something new every time.

[@MunroLive]

Glad you like them!

[@htsyami]

As a mechanical engineer and Tesla investor these videos are like Christmas for me. Keep up the great work guys!

[@Frank_W.]

As a Tesla fan and investor I can’t wait to see the technology that will come out with the Cybertruck which I’m a reservation holder. I’m hanging on Elon’s words indicating that it might just be Tesla’s best product.

[@chrisE815]

Maybe you should sell your stock because this design sucks!

[@dexio85]

LOL, stop rubbing your dick mate.

[@thomasgaudette7367]

Flat wire is sometimes used to reduce inductance. Not sure if it applies here. It's also often used for high current connections by ultrasonic wedge bonding.

[@mattgraham4340]

I wouldn't expect inductance to be an issue for DC, but perhaps the inverter draws current from the battery pack in high frequency pulses. I would think that a flat wire also has superior heatsinking potential.

[@Paxmax]

@@mattgraham4340

[@jgramsey]

They are fusable links and flat ribbon wire is used rather than traditional round wire since it provides a better wire to substrate bond. The flat wide surface of the wire works well with the wedge tool bonding 'head'.

[@danlewis243]

Another example, internal welder connections. I would guess also easy to spot weld flat wire. Looks like from what can be seen none of the battery cases are inverted as a way to series the 4680 voltages. Excited to see when they get the rest of the top cover off as to how everything is connected

[@scottgaree7667]

@@danlewis243 The batteries have positive and negative on one end, so no need to invert any. This is fairly common in the industry for exactly that reason. The entire bottom, sides, and part of the top are all anode.

[@glen8449]

Another great video. I enjoy watching you and your team break things down and explain the working parts. Thank you, Glen.

[@MunroLive]

Thanks Glen

[@sryev9410]

Incredible work guys, despite the hard work sweat and tears this is a huge world first and you are uncovering all this engineering for amateurs and professionals alike

[@PaulMcElroyWasHere]

Can you guys at Munro find the vendor for the foam and ask what their take on this is? I'm guessing they have a specialty solvent that will ignore the other plastics. Reuse > Recycle > Waste

[@Barskor1]

Or you just use the whole damned thing and plug it into a new battery storage system.

[@stevenson720]

@@Barskor1 yep, after a car then it's house storage, milk whatever is left that way. Only need to grind it up when it's totally gone.

[@_PatrickO]

@@stevenson720 No. It is into the grinder for recycling. Recycling the minerals reduces the cost of new packs. "reuse" in the slogan "reduce, reuse, and recycle" is there just because most things cannot be recycled to make it seem like you are helping when you aren't. The low volume of people reusing EV packs is absolutely meaningless. Recycling 100% of packs is the real deal. This is what we need to close the loop. Once peak minerals are reached in the recycling loop, new mining is greatly reduced. Reuse for silly one off projects prevents recycling. Tesla will eventually hit people with a massive core charge if they keep their old packs because recycling is necessary to keep costs down and reduce pollution.

[@Barskor1]

@@stevenson720 Indeed simple and practical.

[@Barskor1]

@@_PatrickO That is end-of-life processing till then there is plenty of capacity in a EV battery.

[@arcadiushakim3675]

Cory, Sandy and team Great video. Interesting comment from Sandy, 'Telsa does not have a limit on their capacity to invent' This permanent foam approach, a person can never do maintenance on this type of battery pack, means Telsa has lots of faith it will have extremely low failure rate.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Not to mention (to all the "but service" commenters) but if it's under warranty and fails, you get a complete new pack, *WINNER* If it hasn't failed by then, it's likely to last much longer.

[@_PatrickO]

It also means ultium is a joke. It is designed for serviceability because GM has zero faith in their batteries. The companies that cut corners to reduce warranty risks will have less efficient cars that cannot compete. Tesla can probably recycle an entire pack to base minerals for less cost than a single in warranty cell replacement on an ultium pack.

[@normanbayona4636]

@@rogerstarkey5390 yeah, this makes sense. Also, if you remember from the earlier videos from when they dropped the structural pack, it was among the simplest to remove from the rest of the car Munroe has torn down, iirc anyway. Meaning that once these are manufactured at scale, this is going to be a relatively simple procedure, decades from now when you finally do want to replace your battery because the rest of your car held up for 400K miles. And it will probably be cheaper and more energy dense by then as well.

[@andrewholdaway813]

Capacity to correct their errors and restart the learning curve for manufacturing.

[@DavidJohnson-tv2nn]

@@rogerstarkey5390 What do you say to people buying a used vehicle outside of warranty? Too bad, go buy a new battery?

[@emagotis]

So exiting to see what you found

[@scottprather5645]

Glad to hear about the recyclability of these packs and of course is essential for sustainability of the technology going forward into the new and strange modern world we live in

[@crimson888]

While I find this extremely interesting and as a long time TSLA bull and shareholder I am so very excited for the future, I cant help to think Sandy and team are making it easier for competitor to copy TSLA without paying him to do so...then I think how bloated the current automotive business model is and feel good about the next 10 years. By the time anyone catches up, TSLA will be on to the next thing. Thank you for doing these videos they are incredible, especially coming from Sandy Munro and team.

[@jimbob3823]

Bloody fascinating!! Thank you for sharing the knowledge, you are an awesome group of experts and your videos are groundbreaking!

[@LosZonga]

Sandy & Cory at the Tesla event you could see the exploded version of the battery pack with the inter cell side cooling channels. At such bigger volume for individual cells, it makes sense to cool the biggest surface and that is the side of it for sure. I bet the foam is thermal insulator, sound proofing against the road noise, structural rigidity improvement and fire retardant. It is a genius design and amassing innovation of what a structural battery pack, never attempted before, should be.

[@patreekotime4578]

Yep. But there were many people who doubted that would actually go into the product. Bottom plate cooling was reiterated again and again by just about every Tesla channel after Battery Day so that it became the common consensus. Interesting, Lucid IS doing it, but Tesla isnt.

[@areitu]

It'll be very interesting to see how the cooling channels are arranged and why Tesla is sticking with side-cooling. Cylindrical don't heat up evenly--they generate heat from the inside out, bottom to top, which is why pack designs like Lucid's, use end-cooling. Tesla might be using side-cooling due to manufacturing considerations or due to them building one big battery pack rather than a series of modules inside a pack

[@carholic-sz3qv]

You mean a battery pack that is essentially just something to throw away after the use in the car right!? Because there is absolutely no way that thing can be reused for other applications after the car life! That’s a disaster

[@patreekotime4578]

@@carholic-sz3qv Yes it absolutely can and will. Stable storage is a MUCH more pressing demand than overpriced conversions.

[@karmakh]

Finally another episode on the 4680! Keep it up!

[@cathyjones4702]

Thanks for answering the recycling question! Super fascinating

[@aware2action]

Wonderful as always. Glad the cells are intact(payoff from lots of patience and persistence with lots of restraint. Kudos to the Munro team). Now Munro gets to baptize the term for bricking the unbrickable into the English vocabulary. Suspect there are reserve cells and also some kind of one time fuse technology to add them later. Seems like a good mitigation technique to address premature loss of capacity in the first generation 4680 cells.

[@inelonwetrust9169]

Thanks for these tear downs. Always fascinating seeing things that the normal folks never would see. The engineering involved is 🤯!

[@stephenmcgauley]

Someone block 90 minutes on Sandy’s calendar for him to watch Talladega Nights lol

[@BenefitOfTheDoubtInquiry]

The incremental teardown over the last few weeks is suspense intense. I'm loving and hate the pace here lol

[@LegendaryInfortainment]

Thank all of you for that report (so far). I never expected my assumption of recycling strategy to be even nearly correct. Back to the show!

[@dan92677]

Excellent !!! I really enjoy the way that you all tell us EVERYTHING, not just the recap. Keep it up. Super product that you're producing !!!

[@Teddy_M85]

Shake and Bake!!! Great work @Munrolive keep the videos coming... As a MYP owner, my only gripe besides QC and Service is the amount of plastics in the interior. I get that threaded fasteners should be eliminated when possible but I've had quite a few plastic fasteners break with normal usage. I can't imagine long term durability. Car is a joy to own though and on the plus side the plastic parts are easy to replace. No car is perfect and I'm sure durability will continue to increase as more data comes in.

[@markplott4820]

Apparently , TESLA is Launching F1 race style Service PITTS . to shorten wait times.

[@BlackBuck777]

I recall when working with LN2 in a lab in my youth we froze bananas, balloons and other foodstuffs and regularly played "catch" - oops, dropped it! - breaks into a thousand pieces. Great fun. (Not quite "molecules falling apart" as Sandy thinks though.) Notably, left to unfreeze, everything turns to a yucky mush, particularly bananas. I think Sandy might be on the right track but also hope Tesla will have thought carefully about how they will make the recycle process work, "at the end of the day". That battery pack is clearly designed to deter anyone from being nosey too. Regarding Elon's comment (8:11) I have said for decades that folk should buy shares in landfill sites - there's a rich materials resource just waiting to be used.

[@Clark-Mills]

This is an early structural pack, the four modules have been shown in the Tesla promo videos so no surprise there. Tesla said that this is essentially a generation-1 pack that just gets the job done. There is a ton of space for the product to evolve; and evolve it will. I look forward to the pack teardown in a year and two. :)

[@markplott4820]

TESLA innovates at LIGHTSPEED.

[@WarezCommentary]

@@markplott4820 how many fanboys here ...

[@themonsterunderyourbed9408]

​@@WarezCommentary Regardless of fanboy status, it's the objective truth. Every other manufacturer is still using pouch cells 😂

[@normangebhardt2092]

Thanks Sandy and Cory for this battery pack update. Looking forward to the next video.

[@MunroLive]

More to come!

[@nunya___]

@8:43 :) Atoms don't fall apart because they are cold. Theoretically, even chemical reactions can still take place at a perceived 0 Kelvin because of Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle.

[@wideawaketotruth5301]

Munro, always treasure trove of solid information! Who knew?-threaded fasteners?

[@markplott4820]

the FUD Muck-e has brackets holding up more Brackets. Muck-e is litterally SCREWED and HOSED.

[@MorganWalser]

You guys are amazing. Thank you for all this information which you put out there, truly appreciate it.

[@MunroLive]

Our pleasure!

[@LanceT.]

It's really interesting to see how they put it together!

[@johncandelario294]

Love the series , like the objective talk and love how your business is no pivoting to this vehicles and hope it’s thriving !

[@beauhause]

Great content guys. Appreciate you doing these tear downs, always learn something. What do I do with my hands!

[@MunroLive]

Thanks for watching Beau!

[@victorescobar7437]

I think that the thickness of the cans and the amount of adhesion was just a precaution for 4680. Once they are more confident I can see them optimizing the structure and gaining density.

[@victorescobar7437]

Also they might be compensating for the material used for the canister. Using a different formula for the canister now that the batteries are structural might save money and weight. This is me just guessing, I’m not an expert by any stretch.

[@fred993a]

Munro is such an incredible engineering company - thank you!

[@_mysilentblue2227]

You know the pack designers are enjoying this tear down more that you are. I'm sure that "Munro is going to love trying to get into this pack" was said more than once.

[@gxtoast2221]

That brief explanation about how Tesla will recycle these batteries was good to hear. Amazing process.

[@michaelnoble2432]

Would have been even better if they'd made battery packs repairable. This is the WORST trend in EVs I've ever seen.

[@alexpocs8649]

Thanks for all your hard work, it is very educational.

[@Huddit]

Great job guys!

[@GlentonMe]

Really appreciate the the step by step break down of how you would recycle this battery pack.

[@tyler548]

'What do I do with my hands??' lmfaooo I got it instantly. Sandy was like "Idk are you a hand model??... 'Ricky Bobby??' lol

[@yangwang7289]

First of all, great video breaking apart the different components! One thing I am wondering is the composition of the pinkish foam. Is it fire proof? How it’s helping cooling the battery? It must be some kind of high efficiency thermal-conducting material right?

[@markplott4820]

YES, fire retardent foam , extingushes fire , creates protective barrier so adjacent cells dont catch fire also acts as a Insualtor . does not help cool the battery , acts as Insulation , like a ice chest. the Active cooling come from the Ribbons filled w/ non flamable Coolant.

[@joeclutchless1944]

Looks like the 800 dollar price tag for one cell might turn into a money losing proposition for Munro! This pack is going to take hundreds of hours to take apart.

[@pauleheisterbademeister7325]

1 Cell maybe 10$

[@jbarvideo12]

Fabulous inervies Sandy and Cory. Can't wait for your next episode.

[@dboyette42]

Love Sandy keep him working Cory

[@tedthompson9379]

That top layer of insulating material looks like G10 Glastic material. Used in electrical applications like switchgear and motors.

[@alphabuilders]

Looks more like natural nylon to me (no dye added). The dry ice blasting has given it a bit of a matt texture but still not as matt as g10. Also g10 is an order more expensive than nylon, it cant be injection moulded and has to be machined for shapes like the one we see, which would further increase the cost and slow down production (injection moulding=good for high volume production). Not to mention its weight penalty over nylon.

[@teslahype]

Are you a hand model? Lmao 😂 Great info! Thanks Munro & Associates team 💪

[@jasonfranciosa]

If we assume 816 cells and 98 watt hours per cell, puts total pack capacity at ~80 kwh. This would suggest they are software limiting the range. What we don't know is the actual energy storage amount of each cell. If it's 95 watt hours per cell, that number drops to 77.5 kwh.

[@oof_Dad]

More likely the first gen cells are lower than 98 wh/cell. The 6 month old cell that The Limiting Factor tore down did not have silicon. To me, it looks like all 828 cells are in there (34/35 strings just like the ones on display at Cyber Rodeo). Drew said in the latest earnings call that there will be no magic surprise of range unlock. So, they are starting with a more conservative chemistry (no silicon) as the dial in the dry process and new form factor. That is my conclusion with everything know to date, but still just conjecture until someone can count those cells and lab test their capacity. I hope we finally get to solve this mystery.

[@lesstevens2370]

@@oof_Dad i believe the 4680 was never meant to be this battery that had the crazy range increase people where hoping for but instead focus on durability and life so it would only need to be the only battery made for that vehicle which in my opinion is much much more valuable to the customer then 50 to 100 more miles and far better for the environment just think if vehicle lasted 2 to 5 million miles it now would be a generational car you can pass down to your kid or grandkids

[@jasonfranciosa]

@@oof_Dad for sure, It will be very interesting to see what the energy capacity is of each cell. The weight of the LR vs. the 4680 AWD is only about 25 lb difference. I've seen different numbers for the pack size of the MY LR, but I'm going to guess it's 82 Kwh total capacity. If I do the math out, assuming the EPA ranges are correct (330 miles vs. 279 miles), It would suggest the total pack energy is only 70 kWh. That seems pretty low if there are 828 cells. That would put the per cell energy at 84.5 watt hours/cell. That seems a bit low, but who knows.

[@Doctorbasss]

Curiously, 98Wh per cell is just below the Class 9 hazardous material regulation for shipping which is set to 99Wh max.

[@juhak27]

They might have some number of dummy cells to reduce the pack capacity. This would make sense given a limited cell supply.

[@budgetaudiophilelife-long5461]

🤗 THANKS SANDY,CORY,ERIC,AND ALL THE REST OF YOUR STAFF …for sharing this mind-blowing info 🤯🤯 in a way that we lay-people can understand 🤔😁😎😍😍😍

[@budgetaudiophilelife-long5461]

AND WE DON’T WANT TO FORGET TO THANK ALL THE PATRONS AND OTHER SUPPORTERS 🤗👏👏👏

[@amitrana6489]

Thanks for the Hard Work. Keep Posting Videos Like these. Love to hear it from the GOAT himself

[@lotredam]

Love the tech, one thing I don't get though is what to do if u need to repair. Or is Tesla assuming that this battery will never get damaged and/or break?

[@W0Ndr3y]

Exactly. The Titanic can't sink.

[@timlin254]

be ready to cough up 22,000 for a new battery

[@Dejawolfs]

they're betting on battery tech having advanced by the time this battery breaks i guess.

[@lotredam]

@@Dejawolfs Feels like there is something we don't know. There MUST be a way to fix potentially battery issues, or a way to replace the whole pack. Otherwise the whole car would just become a huge paper press. This is not what we are used to see in a product engineered by Tesla...

[@Eagles_Eye]

I love how difficult it is for Sandy to ask people to subscribe xD

[@barboist]

with this amount of foam, this battery pack should insulate noise and vibration coming from underside something like rolls royce level.

[@Cloxxki]

But it's a small piece of floor only. And bolted to the chassis.

[@Deez-Master]

Love the content

[@andrewradford3953]

Loving this drawn out battery burlesque. Works for me

[@WentzCraft]

It's probably isn't a new suggestion, but I wonder if there's some type of a solvent that could just dissolve the foam without damaging any of the components around it? This wouldn't give you the ability to repair the pack, but could make salvaging the cells for reuse possible rather than recycling, later in the battery packs life.

[@jasons7044]

That is the only way

[@TheTurbotommi]

Normally Acetone resolves any kind of foam.

[@WentzCraft]

@@TheTurbotommi I had a feeling, but thought maybe it was some kind of magic foam.

[@Muonium1]

the only solution with a piece of extremely complex composite material like this is total annihilation. Hot piranha solution to just absolutely destroy all organics into CO2 and dissolve all metals into solution that can then be selectively precipitated back out. There is no other way.

[@LawpickingLocksmith]

There are dangerous solvents. Using an ice blaster is sure far less dangerous but it turns out harder then first assumed.

[@AndyKopac]

The foam part reminds me of boator surfboard composite construction techniques.

[@ryannguyen7466]

Can't wait for the team to open up those individual cell to see the design behind the cell.

[@Barskor1]

Yes, that!

[@jameswoll]

Check out a teardown on The Limiting Factor, here on KZbin.

[@brianb-p6586]

I've never seen Munro open up any individual cell - that leave that to other companies.

[@smashICE1]

Awesome, thanks for showing us what's going on in the battery pack. You guys rock!

[@geekimusprime]

Love that Sandy wrote the numbers down on his hand

[@steveo1574]

The video all of us have been waiting for. It's exciting to see a 10 year old company that's been making cars from the factory from where they were to where they are now. It's like the beginning days of the smart phone when every version was something of massive achievement. Yet, Tesla is doing this almost monthly lol. I can't wait to see what changes are made when this is reviewed in the next 2 years and how far they have come to perfecting the Model Y.

[@terrysullivan1992]

No matter how you figure it; Tesla is older than 10 years. Founded in 2003, Elon bought majority share in 2004 and became CEO in 2008. So it's either 19, 18, or 14. My guess is that Elon started exercising direction and control around 2006 or '07 with the development of the first Roadster.

[@pipooh1]

@@terrysullivan1992 But the biggest and most EV pushing changes happened all in the last 6-8 years. The first roadster was to showcase they can build an EV. With the Model S they prove they can make a very fast EV. It's with the model 3 and Y where they really pushed their technology and production to what lead the new 4680 cells etc.

[@PrzyjemnePieniadze]

It is a pity that in this video they did not notice that the battery capacity differs significantly from what Tesla is giving away. Knowing the number of cells: 816 cells * 98Wh (every cell) = 79 968Wh = 79.9 kWH

[@_PatrickO]

@@terrysullivan1992 Grow up. The model S, after eberhard was fired, is when tesla became tesla. Its 10-12 years depending on how you want to count it.

[@Cloxxki]

10 years ago they had a refined product that soon won Car Of The Year prizes left and right. They added THREE models in those 10 years, but only one really new platform. I guess the "Plaid" generation could be seen a kind of re-do of the Model S/X platform, but still not with true mass production in mind, just a small numbers posher option with lesser impressive value for money over competitors.

[@AquanautSt1]

The future looks awesome ! Thanks Monro & Team !

[@carholic-sz3qv]

With this battery packaging not at all!

[@anthonypelchat]

Edit: I am wrong below. It will 828 cells, unless they do something different on other packs. The next row will be 35 cells, and it will alternate between 34 and 35 cells. This does mean that it will be a 92s9p config, which is also lower voltage than current 2170 builds. Not sure why they would do that. "For the total number of cells, 816 makes more sense than 828. The pack is overall the number of cells in series multiplied by the number of cells in parallel. They have to both be whole numbers. Given that Tesla is still on a 400v architecture (between 350v and 450v max charge), you need around 100 cells in series to make that work. The only parallel numbers that work within that range are 8 and 9: 8 for 816 cells and 9 for 828 cells. 9 in parallel would mean 92 in series while 8 in parallel would mean 102 in series. While both work for a 400v architecture, 9 would be a lower voltage of 386v. When it comes to charging, the super chargers are amp limited due to heat. This is also the case with the controllers and motors. But this would be an unnecessary limit to charging speeds. 8 would be 428v. This would allow faster charging speeds for the same amount of amps. It would also allow the motors and controllers to run cooler."

[@trent_carter]

I came up with the same math. 204 per section. 4 sections. Each section is two series strings of 102 cells. So a total cell count of 816 is very plausible.

[@anthonypelchat]

@@trent_carter Thank you. I hadn't thought about the individual sections. Makes sense though, as each module would be identical in that. However, it would make it impossible to reduce voltage by separating the modules from each other. I kinda want to take a voltage meter to several connections. That would give series counts, which is the most important aspect when looking at total pack size. Dangerous if you screw up though. 100v DC is more dangerous than 100v AC, and we are looking at a max of 400v and enough amps to melt steel.

[@brianb-p6586]

You have those combinations correct. The voltage difference between the two of them is unimportant; the Ford Mach-E standard and extended range batteries are 96S3P and 94S4P, with no change in the motors or controllers and no loss of performance. The count will almost certainly be 828, if only because when divided into the four blocks (modules) the resulting 207 divides into whole groups of 9, while the 204 resulting from a total of 816 does not divide into whole groups of 8.

[@anthonypelchat]

@@brianb-p6586 You are right on the voltage not being that important overall. While it is important, the motors and controllers have a wide range that is acceptable. Similar to the charging systems. It does need to stay within the acceptable range, but that's it. Otherwise, higher voltage is slightly better than lower voltage since it allows less amps for the same amount power. That reduces heat. You are incorrect however with the pack groups. We can see that the first module, which has to be identical to the other side, is 204 cells (6 by 34). The center modules are also 6 across. The 828 cell count comes from someone saying that the center modules were 35 cells down and 6 across, while the sides were 34 by 6.

[@brianb-p6586]

@@anthonypelchat No, as Sandy mentioned they don't know how many cells are in that block. The edge row has 34 cells, but when they did in far enough to see the next row (which likely has 35, and the they alternate like that), they'll actually know how many are in the block. No, the blocks are logically not different; unlike the original Model 3 2170-cell battery, the middle blocks (modules) do not appear to be longer.

[@BexieBoy]

Big thanks to the team at Munro for delivering these high quality and educational videos. I do not understand most of it but still find these comparisons incredibly fascinating

[@20thcenturyboy85]

SUPER COOL Video! THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! -FASCINATING!!!!

[@ohger1]

LOL, one thing about Tesla, they think out of the box and are freaking fearless. I can't imagine any other company having the nads to put this into production.

[@steveo1574]

This thinking outside the box is amazing. I couldn't ever imagine a Legacy company ever doing this.

[@DavidJohnson-tv2nn]

That is because other companies don't want to screw their customers quite as bad. The greed of tech companies is endless. But it may backfire on them if they have to replace millions of batteries under warranty :)

[@SirDragonClaw]

@@DavidJohnson-tv2nn Haha I don't think you understand what you are looking at, this is nothing but good for the customer.

[@DavidJohnson-tv2nn]

@@SirDragonClaw I fully understand what I'm looking at. Please explain how it is good for a customer who purchased a used vehicle outside of warranty that now has a problem with the battery pack? Please tell me how it is good for someone looking for cheap home energy storage, and can't buy repurposed battery modules? It is crystal clear that built in obsolescence is good for Tesla investors, but how is it good for the average person?

[@_PatrickO]

@@DavidJohnson-tv2nn GM and ford screwed their customers more than any other car companies. Ford knowingly sold defective transmissions for a decade and had to be sued over it because NHTSA refused a recall. GM has tons of models with defects that required customers to sue because they also magically avoided NHTSA recalls for safety issues. Tesla as a brand new company has barely had any recalls (we are adults, software updates do not count when NHTSA is ignoring serious hardware issues in other brand's cars).

[@Pikminiman]

The dry-ice blaster is badass.

[@markplott4820]

so is a thermal FOAM hot Knife.

[@dewiz9596]

I’ve ALWAYS . . . well, at least for the last 50 years, considered Garbage to be partially refined ore. Today’s landfill is tomorrow’s mine

[@ken-mb5cp]

Sure anything put together can be taken apart it’s just how much energy does it take. It has to be economical. Just think how clean the world would be if garbage became gold.

[@JBoy340a]

Bright people just need to be applied to problem of economically reusing the materials in landfills. And whomever every does that has a preverbal gold mine. Charge people to drop off waste and then mine the materials from the waste.

[@AnthonyCelata]

thanks Munro team!

[@nathanmcmunigal6408]

Thank you for addressing recyclability. 🙏♻