479 Which LoRaWAN Gateway Is Best For Me (Comparison)? Part 2

[@ChristopherBuono]

7 Years... time flies. Glad to have had you here to help guide us on our LoRa journeys.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Indeed, I was one of the first covering this area...

[@klassichd10]

Thank you for your effort. "My first gateway has been on my roof for over 7 years now... " I remember. how the time flies. „Eins, zwei, drei im Sauseschritt eilt die Zeit - wir eilen mit.“

[@AndreasSpiess]

And with age, it seems to accelerate :-(

[@klassichd10]

@@AndreasSpiess I have to agree - unfortunately this time.

[@MagicGumable]

2:18 Andreas could you try to hook up that mini-pcie card (with a mini pcie to pcie adapter) directly to a computer? These are great and often times low cost as they are currently being thrown out by most Link Towers for newer cards

[@xoseperez8437]

Sure you can do that. Mikrotik or RAK gateways in the review have these minipcie radio modules inside (called concentrators). You can even buy them alone. They usually come with SPI or USB interfaces. You can use the USB ones with a cheap minipcie to USB adapter with any computer (or plug it directly to the MB if there is a minipcie connector). Then you have to run the Packet forwarder software stack on the computer.

[@AndreasSpiess]

@xoseperez8437 knows what he is talking about. He is an expert. So I do not have to add anything ;-)

Another Swiss gateway manufacturer is miromico, which bring one gateway for each Q1-Q4 and also 2.4Ghz lorawan.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for the info. I heard about the company, but did not ask all of them :-(

[@tomislavzivkovic3978]

Dear Andreas. My compliments. Your channel is probably the best on this topic. It says on your website that you value your privacy and that you should be contacted via YT. Since there is nothing close to what I want, I am asking the question here. Rotary encoders are either expensive or of poor quality. I heard that it is possible to use a stepper motor as an encoder. I mean turning the motor by hand and reporting the direction and number of pulses in the ESP32. Interesting new project? Many greetings.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I also heard about this application. But, becasue motors have big coils, you probably need some protections. And "real" rotary encoders are also not so expensive. I have for example one for CNC machines for 15$. However, I do not have many applications for such devices and so, I do not know how long it would last.

[@nzmichaelh]

Thanks!

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for your support!

[@rudolfziegaus2913]

Hello Andreas, just found your video on LoraWAN-gateways. It's really helpful for me, as I am completely new to LoraWAN. Since I am currently looking for a gateway to connect some internal sensors I am looking for a simple internal gateway. Probably the Mikrotik KNOT LR8 would do perfectly for me, I have just some questions regarding the usage in an private LoraWAN - can I use it for this purpose? I do not need access to TTN. And do I need the Basic station protocol for private LoraWAN-networks?

[@AndreasSpiess]

1. You need a LoRaWAN for these gateways to work. Eitehr you use one like TTN, or you install your own. TTN has containers that you can use for that. Chirpstack is another one. 2. The LR8 has 4G connectivity. If you do not need it, you might get a better deal (plus, if you do not know Mikrotiks RouteOS, it can be complex to make it running) 3. Basic station is the newer protocol. For new networks I would go this way to be future proof.

[@tolipydob]

Thanks for the content. I got a couple Heltec meshtastic goin. I ordered an indoor elecrow pi hat before I discovered meshtastic. Perhaps I will deploy it.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I assume you know that Meshtastic and LoRaWAN are two very different things.

[@tolipydob]

@@AndreasSpiess yes I discover meshtastic after I am geared up for LoRaWan, It's part of how I learn from my own sub optimal(in hindsight) decisions. LOL perhaps the LR1302 will be utilized in meshtastic some day.

[@philgibe]

Great video as usual but I don't get it. I want to have several outdoors sensors with Lora transmitters going into my PC. Is the gateway use exactly for receiving several Lora transmissions at the same time ? Thank you

[@AndreasSpiess]

That is correct. One gateway can receive messages from many sensors because they do not transmit messages often.

[@christosmoutevelis4896]

Thanks for the comparison !

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome!

[@ThomasHaberkorn]

Great video! If I may a topic recommendation: Comparison of all display technologies for makers (viewing angles, brightness, robustness,..)

[@AndreasSpiess]

I did not have a lot of projects with displays, so I am not a specialist in this matter :-( I usually use the Smartphone or the PC as a display.

[@ThomasHaberkorn]

@@AndreasSpiess could be fun though: LCD vs OLED vs E-INK... :)

[@papyetlesresistancespapyet2622]

Dear Andreas, first many thanks for your great videos. I plan to setup a network of 30 devices to monitor small animal shelters (like birds) scattered around a zone of 200m x 200m. Should I go for an indoor or an outdoor gateway ?

[@AndreasSpiess]

It depends on where you want to place it. 200m seems to be no problem if there is a line of sight (or similar) between the sensors and the gateway.

[@papyetlesresistancespapyet2622]

@@AndreasSpiess I would prefer to leave it inside a building (safer and less expensive) but is it possible to do so, taking into account the propagation losses in the structure ?

[@AndreasSpiess]

@@papyetlesresistancespapyet2622 Just try it. Maybe you have to move it a bit.

[@hankhulator5007]

Hi Andreas, _"waterproofness […] can survive at least in european weather conditions"_ - As I've been raised on the seashore, I can tell you it won't fit very long (d° for your balcony contraption), which is a big problem - hell, even stainless steel hinges 45 years old (so real 18/10 stainless steel where magnets do not stick) have rusted a few ! This is a huge problem that cannot be easily circumvented, except with several tropicalization varnish layers, completely hermetic boxes with Silicagel bags inside and special mastic instead of pass-through gaskets (but even with that, it can still be corroded :/). To give you an idea, antennas external cables joins with F plugs _must_ be protected by 3M extensible auto-vulcanize tape at least 5 cm from the F plug on the cable, but even with that, it doesn't last more than 10 years (well, it is also often the antenna itself that is dead after this time). Nice LoRa panorama with these 2 videos :)

[@VictorIndiaDeltaAlfa]

Aerospace industry uses an ardrox av30 (dinitrol) coating over everythingy outside the airframe (connectors etc.). It is a liquid varnish that turns into waxy/semi solid coat when it dries and can be removed with acetone or MEK. Worth checking out....

[@hankhulator5007]

@@VictorIndiaDeltaAlfa I know that, as a matter of fact I know about dinitrol since the 70's as the younger brother of the neighbor of my grand-parents was in the aeronaval and sometimes came in Britany to scuba dive - but it quite expensive here and difficult to find a source. Thanks anyway :)

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for sharing your expertise. I always thought that you guys are happier with living at the seashore. Now I have at least a little advantage here in the mountains ;-)

[@hankhulator5007]

@@AndreasSpiess Well, as you know it, we're never fully happy with what we have, I'd love to dwell in the mountains but there's not a lot in west of France (I'm secretly planning to go to Pyrénées-Atlantique, south-west, at the frontier with Spain, here you have (small) mountains AND ocean ;-). Anyway, seashore and mountains have a common point, big and juicy thunderstorms, good when it is dark and the comforter is just beneath your nose, not so good for electronics though.

[@TerraMagnus]

this might be a rookie question, because I have not used LoRaWAN yet (but have used many other IoT networks). But if I wanted to use something like Yolink end devices, am I required to also use a Yolink branded LoRaWAN gateway? Or can I mix & match brands?

[@AndreasSpiess]

LoRaWAN is an international standard. So, any sensor should work with any gateway (as long as the frequency band is the same)

[@AndreasWalter1]

If I want to afford the prices for outdoor devices and also welcome an easier installation ... could I go for an indoor solution and mount only the antenna outside? That sounds like a good solution for me. Expensive Hardware, network and power connection inside the building.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Yes. Keep the coax cable short and use a good one.

[@lukass.1578]

Any reason why you didn't include the dragino gateways ? I have the lps8v2 and am pretty happy with it so far.

[@AndreasSpiess]

No particular reasons. I asked TTN for the most important gateway suppliers and then contacted them. Thank you for sharing your experience!

[@GeekendZone]

Hi Andreas, thank you, excellent information, I am thinking of purchasing one of these outdoor gateways, but at the same time I cannot contain the desire to try with my raspberry Pi and one of these hats, and get my own LoRaWAN Gateway, could you recommend a link or video? . Updated where they build a Gateway with a Raspberry Pi? , a thousand thanks in advance.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I do not know of a recent one. Go with the instructions on the seller's homepage and make sure the packet forwarder automatically starts during boot (standard Linux)

[@GeekendZone]

Ok thanks.

[@VKRenato]

Can I use helium miner as lora gateway? I have one MNTD goldspot miner laying around.

[@AndreasSpiess]

The hardware should be capable. However, you probably have to change the software. Or at least reconfigure it.

[@BR0KK85]

There is a tutorial for the sense cap hotspots somewhere on Reddit or the Internet. I guess there is one for yours too

[@fahrimertdincer8421]

can you make a video about diy lora gateway based on price (chanel numbers dosn't mater)

[@AndreasSpiess]

I made such videos. And the two Pi hats are DIY gateways. You cannot get simpler.

[@husseinismailhozza]

Hi Andreas! Just subscribed your channel. Thank you for sharing this info. I am planning to travel to East Africa within couple of months. My family members there are nomads who are struggling with their livestock. They are constantly looking for lost livestock and I want to find a solution for that. I am planning to do an experiment with LoRaWAN to see if it technology could solve the problem and my their lives easier. Unfortunately there is very a bad 4G coverage, so I am thing to setup a standalone solution that will allow data to be read locally on-site from the gateway. I am thinking something like this... attach tags to the animals, setup a local gateway and a local infrastructure. Everything needs to be powered by solar. Gateway will be connected to a local server (e.g. raspberry) using WiFI or direct Ethernet which ever is best. Local WiFi has the benefit of allowing mobiles or laptops to access data on the local server. I am new to this things, so my first question is, is this setup possible in the first place? Second, what would be the best option for connecting gateway to the local server (cost and power)? Lastly, in ball park how much would this cost? Thank you.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Just search Google for similar projects and offereing. This is a common scenario used for wild and domestic animals.

[@avejst]

Impressive test Thanks for sharing your experience with All of us 👍😃

[@AndreasSpiess]

My pleasure!

[@santoshbansode697]

Very helpful both video `````````❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you!

[@davidverheyen6635]

Thank you. I've been experimenting with meshtastic for about a month now. Can these devices be used as a relay for this? Or would I be better off building something myself?

[@AndreasSpiess]

So far, I did not see any software supporting the 8 channel chips used in these gateways. Maybe somebody is interested in adding this feature...

[@kayna-funkt]

Missing my alltime favorite so far: The Milesight SG50

[@AndreasSpiess]

Looks like an interesting product. Never heard of it. Thanks for mentioning it!

[@PhG1961]

Interesting, useful and entertaining.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you!

[@morpheusde]

Hallo Andreas, vielen Dank für das sehr interessante Video, das vorgestellte Mikrotik hab ich hier auch in Betrieb (2mal) es lässt sich sehr einfach einstellen und man kann problemlos mehrere LNS eintragen. Leider läuft das nicht so gut mit der bei uns im Hause favorisierten element zusammen, da habe ich dann ein Tektelic aber egal das war ja nicht dein Thema. Sehr toll auch die G4 Gateways mit dem Speicher und dem Solarpanel ich denke das werde ich als nächstes auch mal testen. Dankeschön. Dir eine gute Zeit, viele Grüße aus Baden-Baden Uwe

[@AndreasSpiess]

Die Kombination mit Solar ist sicher interessant wenn der Standort es braucht!

[@max9111]

I realized that I have a LoRa gateway (ttn) a 1,5 km and another two at around 2-3 km. Do you think I need to buy a gateway? In your mailbox project you had yourself one, but how far are other gateways away from your home? Anyway thanks for the great videos with a Swiss-German accent.

[@AndreasSpiess]

If your sensors transfer messages, you do not need your gateway. I had (and still do not have) one in the vincinity.

[@max9111]

@@AndreasSpiess Thank you very much for the reply. I understand that one could use MQTT to communicate (receive and trasmit msgs) with the device throug the TTN MQQT broker from an entity connected to wifi or ethernet, but not necessarely connected to LoRa. If this is the case, one would not need a gateway to integrate the sensor on HA for instance. But then you used one for your mailbox sensor... I must be misunderstanding the all problem.

[@AndreasSpiess]

@@max9111 Masybe you watch my LoRaWAN tutorial to understand why we sometimes use it.

[@ChaplainDaveSparks]

I just have to ask ... What is that you're saying in the intro? It sounds like _"gritty KZbinrs"_ or is it _"greetings, KZbinrs"?_

[@AndreasSpiess]

It is „Grüezi“ , is Swiss German, and means hello

[@PeterAlbronda]

As always a very nice and instructive presentation that does not take a long attention span but gives a lot of info. Thank you, vielen dank.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Glad you think so!

[@roiskam2222]

Hi. Do you have any video on how to calculate lora rage?

[@AndreasSpiess]

Yes. Search for "world record" on my channel

[@roiskam2222]

@@AndreasSpiess Thank you very much i saw it right after i commented. That really helped!

[@SaltMineRanch]

all of my clients use wireguard over 4g, im not sure what you mean about cgnat problems.

[@AndreasSpiess]

The clients work. Gateways are http servers if you want to access their management pages.

[@derbri1411]

Vielen Dank für die super Videos. Ich möchte mein Dorf mit einem LoRaWAN Gateway auf dem Kirchturm (bei weitem der höchste Punkt) ausrüsten, sodass jeder das Gateway nutzen kann. Momentan bin ich anhand meiner Erfahrungen einer der einzigen, der in unmitellerbarer Nähe sich mit LoRaWAN beschäftigt. Deshalb meine Fragen: Ist das MikroTik LtAP LR8 LTE6 Kit mit SIM-Karte und Antenne ein gutes Gateway. (Auf dem Kirchturm ist nur Strom vorhanden) Auf wie hohe Datenverbräuche muss ich mich am Anfang einstellen, wenn erstmal nur ich das Gateway nutze (100 MB oder mehrer GB pro Monat) zwecks der Sim-Karte. Liebe Grüße in die Schweiz

[@AndreasSpiess]

1. Das Mikrotik ist ok für ein Dorf. Seine Antenne ist nicht sehr lang, kann deshalb gut montiert werden. Es wird aber keine Reichweitenrekorde bringen. 2. Ich habe nie die Datenmengen gemessen. Allerdings sind es eher MB pro Monat. Ich würde mit einer Digitalrepublic flat 0.4 für 4.- pro Monat beginnen (wenn die Abdeckung stimmt). Die kannst du jederzeit kündigen. Sie ist in der Speed, nicht im Datenvolumen reduziert. Das ist aber kein Problem.

[@derbri1411]

@@AndreasSpiessvielen Dank für deine Antwort! Ich werde mit dem Standard Gateway von Microtik mit 6,5dB Antenne arbeiten und ein PtP WLAN Empfänger deneben installieren, wie du es in einem anderen Video vorgestellt hast. Der Kirchturm ist 400 m in Sichtweite.

[@anton4video]

Have you looked at mioty? Has similarities with LoRa.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I looked at it. For the moment, I think it covers a small niche in very crowded places. LoRa had a huge head-start.

[@mrkozak]

Hello. Meshtastic gets updates. Does that mean i will need to replace to new hardware?

[@AndreasSpiess]

Meshtastic does not need gateways. It is a different project.

[@ronaldglider]

Danke Vielmal!

[@AndreasSpiess]

Gern geschehen!

[@timkrav843]

Chirp Network uses Rak gateway with sub g and LoRa 2.4ghz and LTE, Very good quality I must say .

[@AndreasSpiess]

I am currently looking into DePIN to understand its working. Helium as one of the first definitively was a scam because it has no real business case. Lets see what happens with the Chirp Network...

[@IndependentNewsMedia]

Meshtastic firmware which is Open Source which built around Maker / Tinkerer's has the capability of remote access. You can place the LoRa device into Gateway mode having it connected to Raspberry Pi, making a NAS and conduct all data processing locally, therefore not reliant on 3rd providers. God bless.

[@AndreasSpiess]

You find the first Meshtastic video ever made on this channel 😉

[@Cyklonus]

👍👍

[@mariosuper2818]

thanks

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome!

[@raguaviva]

I think the problem we are still facing is low battery life in the transmitter boards

[@AndreasSpiess]

Lora boards are quite good in this respect. But I do not know your expectations...

[@mcconkeyb]

🙂

[@DataDashy]

Thingsnstwork is trash 🗑️🚮 Helium is the future 💕

[@AndreasSpiess]

Maybe. I do not like the business model of Helium.

[@naeemhaq3504]

no one is best

[@AndreasDelleske]

How do you know?

[@AndreasSpiess]

Best often has to do with requirements...