4x4 Suspension principles, incorrect assumptions and stupid ideas @4xoverland

#4x4 #overlanding #suspensiontraining
Overland Freedom. Off-Grid Mastery:
www.overland-w...
ASPW: www.4xoverland...
4xOverland is the world's first global 4WD adventure off-road motoring channel. Established in 1996, it is hosted by well-known 4x4 writer, explorer and filmmaker, Andrew St Pierre White. AKA: ASPW.

[@WatchingtheWorldBurning]

I watch KZbin and not TV. I discovered Andrew along the way, largely through his photography channel. I watch this channel even though I'm not very interested in Overland stuff per se. But it's a normality I appreciate. The world has gone mad, but Andrew's channel is normality. thanks Andrew.

[@seanlukecorroon]

I started watching due to his Rolex submariner story! I also live in Dubai, so naturally overlanding / dune bashing it something we grew up with.

[@DavidWilliams-xv1ox]

So glad I read your post bro... I noted another TV avoider.😊... I would have dismissed this with the usual flick of a finger ..two mins in and I know he's 120% on his game .and in my dream fourbie...cheeerz

[@mindtraveller100]

@@seanlukecorroon You do overlanding in Dubai?

[@stephenwood3133]

Thank you for this video. I’m 100% in agreement with you, even though I’m very guilty of occasionally overloading the roof rack on my TD5 110 - but I do drive accordingly. The way you’ve explained all of this, you obviously have that great instructional ability. Loved it❤️. Maybe Suzuki Jimny owners should watch this. Keep up the good work.

[@arcanondrum6543]

Television (at least "here in the oosa") has been very, VERY deliberately dumbed down. Information is power, never doubt that. So, name anyone, young or old who says that they watch a lot of television. Young are online, old just don't bother unless they're sat in front of it in retirement. ...Just before Reagan took office, the FCC had expanded the available Channels and some went for surprisingly low bids. Some failed but in many cases, it didn't matter because the Rights mattered and Reagan had worked for GE before becoming Prez. GE (owner of NBC) wanted a bigger share of media and so did the other big media owners. Fox News was born (it was planned by Ailes and by Atwater during the Nixon Admin, they just needed someone with money to burn for several years) so Fox and the Alphabets became "the Big 4" and split up the Indie Channels amongst themselves. MTV could have survived on its own but they had a VJ on the inside, playing crap, plus those Tax Cuts gave the big 4 plenty of a cash and time to wait it out. So the next time you tune into the Bravo! (Opera) or the A&E (Arts and Entertainment) or the History Channel to be informed but find instead, reality show schlock, remember that it's the Big 4 Parents (all of them have the same advertisers, ever notice that?) that purchased them thanks to Reagan getting that rolling (with Tax Cuts to boot) and then Clinton signing the Republican Written and Approved (they controlled both Houses) Telecommunications Act. (Gingrich BTW, defunded PBS. it means that now; THEY have the same advertisers as well. I hope that the extra $2 in your pocket every year was worth every penny.) No independent channels, no real difference in their coverage except for Fox calling the Alphabets "Liberal" and the Alphabets saying _"oh yes, come watch us because we're "different" you see..."._ The Big 4 Parents covered Trump in the run up to the first Election like the Big 3 had covered Reagan; non-stop and glowing. Reward? Their massive Tax Cut from both Prez's (George W. as well). Trump (unlike Reagan) went a little off-script however, so....

[@OnlineopticsCoUk]

Bloody hell Andrew was that all in "one" take? Your information golden as usual, anyone can see from you rolling that all off in one monologue take that you are truly passionate and knowledgeable in your field and delivery of it... let's hope it falls on the right eyes and ears... thanks

[@4xoverland]

first take too!

[@andrebots4224]

As a proud South African Pajero owner, I'd like to thank you for the contributions youve made over the years. I've learnt so much from your trails & errors and your wealth of experience. Suspension is one of those "mine is bigger than yours" things that people very often get upset with. On thos I think youve hit the nail on the head yet again!😎

[@eyeswideopen7450]

suspension is more about "mine is higher"....people forget about handeling and articulation....

[@bamafencer12]

@@eyeswideopen7450 American here, everything is about being bigger. Went to the Overlanding expo and it was just too much for me.

[@charlesfulcrum3170]

“Looking good and performing good are not the same thing”. You hit the nail on the head. Too many people customising their 4x4’s for looks only.

[@HAHA.GoodMeme]

Andrew is one of the 5% of people that know what they are talking about when it comes to suspension. Good stuff.

[@markwhittaker9664]

With over 40 years in the industry I agree with everything you say. Also note that the stiffer the springs the less articulation you get for a given load. Result being the wheel on the extended side will have less weight and therefore less traction than with a softer spring.

[@rickbear7249]

Being a relative 'newbie' at offroading, I've left my ex-military Defender 90 in its original milspec. While others appear to have added some new pieces of kit every time I see them, my Landy has remained unchanged and hasn't let me down. Correct me if I'm wrong, but surely the British Army would have added all of the gimmicky we see in the off-road 4x4 magazines if they were of any real value?

[@michaelbaylis1631]

@rickbear7249 milspec isn't what people think it is. it's the absolute bare minimum, in terms of performance and cost to achieve a set of requirements. If a component overperforms compared to the requirements, then they are over engineered, cost too much, use too much materials etc. They wont be chosen.. or if they are, the components will literally be refined to *just* meet their needs, for the benefit of mass production, efficiency and cost. Private industry will produce components that *exceed* the requirements. Why and how? because they can charge more, use better materials or over engineer it simple. If your requirements are aligned to the milspec, perfect. But be aware milspec also usually incorporates the concept of, cheap and replaceable, often trumps expensive and permanent.

[@sirhcmi3]

I always love your thought process on issues like these. Fantastic review! As an American who sees huge tires on off-road vehicles as a regular trait anymore I was shocked to see your truck with what looks to be 2 inches of travel. Always something to learn. Thank you so much.

[@rafaelgomez1284]

Experience and honesty. Knowledge and 4 x 4 ethic-minded. That is the rigth ingredients for a reasonable and safety all terrain driving. As an owner of a small Vitara in a volcanic-all-around country, I appreciate this. Thank you.

[@guidok3762]

Great video, I learned that it’s better to avoid anything on the roof and put all your overland stuff as low as possible between the front and rear wheels. This way you’re suspension will be working the best, 16:12 and if you are under the maximum weight of your vehicle, you will have the best Offroad conditions that’s possible. Thanks for the super video, I hope everyone will understand it, and leave the roof empty…….. best regards from the Netherlands

[@suzakukururugi6613]

Out of all the advice out there ypu are one of the few I trust, thank you so much for this!!

[@ThomasChataway-g1h]

In 1976 I took a 1972 Range Rover from the U.K. to South Africa overland. A company called Quest 4 replaced the rear springs with ones from the front of a Rover 3500 S P6 ! They did the job well, even though we were carrying 100 gallons of petrol across the Sudan ! Good luck to anyone finding those springs now ! Enjoyed your piece on suspension very much.

[@lukemagro6060]

Great vid, I remember my 1st 4wd, 1976 FJ40 I snapped the rear end off the chassis folding the end of the spring still attached. I remember driving it like that all the way back in to town to get it plated and welded. Fond memories of learning the hard way.

[@explorebound]

Such a great video, logically explained and relevant to all 4wd/overland vehicle owners - the more 'common knowledge' this info is the safer we'll all be. Thanks for another excellent and well put together vid Andrew!!

[@kmg3144]

You truly are a sage of the 4x4 world. Thanks for the always insightful videos.

[@BubblesTheCat1]

Your take on this often neglected subject makes perfect (common) sense. Problem is many people don't even have common sense. Perfect and very good advice that people should heed. 🙏👍

[@8chavales]

Totalmente de acuerdo con lo que dice,esto cansado de decírselo a los compañeros, Bravo por el vídeo 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@BorisEkner]

Couldn’t resist watching this episode again. - Water on the roof… Hahaha! 😂

[@thomasdobson3823]

Thanks Andrew for the clear explanation. Your cool headed views on 4X4s have most probably saved people money and especially lives.

[@riverbum8721]

My father had a saying he had learned , which applies to this: Old Age and Trecherary will overcome youth and skill everytime! Just wish many here in the States would pay attention to this, as it relates to their 4x4 vehicles.

[@ensatlantic]

maybe one of your most useful videos. Made those mistakes and learned the hard way. If I had known before, I would have realized that lower vehicle weight has so many advantages that no winch, bullbar or rocksliders can compensate for 🙂

[@markhowells13]

I mean absolutely. The tradeoff is always comfort though. People just have to decide what's important to them. Going bare bones with a swag and a small fridge and sleeping on the ground ? or being comfortable if you are out for a longer period of time , with more of the mod cons ? i dont think there is a right answer for everyone ? Just dont try and be a diamond track rock crawler if you are set up for long range touring. Thats asking for trouble

[@livingworkingoutsidebox]

Wait... so I shouldn't put a water bed in my rooftop tent?😮😢 Great class. Your ability to explain and instruct with antidotes and storytelling is second to none.

[@harveysmith100]

not unless it's a heated waterbed

[@reccecs4]

Empty waterbed and a pump. Fill from local waterbodies like a true overlander. Also doubles as a raft when filled with air.

[@livingworkingoutsidebox]

@@reccecs4 Now your talking.👍🏕

[@harveysmith100]

@@reccecs4 Your expertise is beyond anything I could imagine.

[@korybeckwith834]

@@reccecs4 You could fill it with helium!

[@tonesbones502]

Hi again Andew, love your videos mate and this is another good one. My n80 hilux came standard with 300kg tuned springs with an overall 920kg weight carrying capacity. As a bricklayer I only move my equipment probably once every two months, so most of the time she's empty. I asked for the 150kg springs with bilsteins and the same 920kg weight capacity and it was a great decision. Much better for the spine and I reckon I get better travel. Staying light is great advice. Keep the great content coming mate.

[@Vanisl4runner1]

Oh that’s good. I work for a logging company, primarily using Ford F250 trucks as our work trucks. “Crummies” we call them. Constantly overloaded, constantly over driven, constantly breaking leaf springs and blowing shocks. I spent the 1st 15 years of my career working in regular automotive shocks, fixing regular automotive customers, and never have I had to do a spring. Call this a culture “shock” for me, as I’m repairing spring after spring and shock after shock, pulling my hair out trying to come up with a reliable and economical solution. I will note, and I don’t think it was said in your video, that the right spring will haul the weight and do it’s end of the work properly, but the wrong shock in that scenario can also cause the springs to break still. What a balance!

[@richardreweti8671]

This is why the ineos people dislike this man because he knows what he's talking about more so than their salesperson.

[@bluntobject4084]

You've said it a number of times and I tried it myself but the whole if you are max loaded and it sags just a bit then it's perfect is so right. Made my life so much more comfortable on trips

[@Shadowstruck]

Thanks Andrew your experiences are worth hearing, I learn lots!

[@twwds]

Amazing contenta Sir! I'm so glad I found you🎉❤😊

[@AJBAdventures]

Always the voice of wisdom on the 4x4 subject, cheers Andrew 👍

[@bird289]

Very insightful, looking at getting into off roading or mild overlanding and this information was great

[@TWX1138]

Here in the United States there's not much in the way of regulation in most states for what sorts of aftermarket modifications are acceptable for on-highway use, and a whole lot of vehicles are modified for appearance far more than for performance. I always have had the attitude of keeing it simple. In my particular case my truck is a crew-cab with a 6' bed, the odd long wheelbase version of a truck normally sold as a king-cab with 6' bed or a crew cab with a 5' bed. In many ways the LWB truck's suspension, identical to the SWB truck's suspension, is pre-compromised from the factory. So the long wheelbase already harms the breakover angle, and the extra weight of the longer truck on the same suspension components that the short wheelbase truck uses meant that the truck sits lower, closer to its bumpstops before any cargo or passengers were loaded. To avoid the problem of cheap aftermarket I actually started out by looking at OE parts or OE-replacement parts. There was an SUV on same platform that had a factory V8 engine option, and along with it was packaged slightly stronger coil springs for the front end. Not crazy so, but enough to account just a little for extra weight. In the back I went with a triple combination, some added leafs, some Timbren tall rubber bump-stops along with deleting the heavy factory overload leafs, and some mild lift from slightly taller leafspring shackles. I also went with Bilstein 5100s, in the front using the 3rd notch from the bottom for some lift, and in the back selecting the dampener that is around an inch or just a hair more to go along with the change in ride height and range. I also chose a slightly lighter front antisway bar than what shipped with the truck, for just a little more suspension flex side to side without deleting the bar entirely. The truck performs fantastically this way. Even loaded with camping supplies and hooked up to tow a single-axle travel trailer I'm far enough off of the Timbrens to where the ride is comfortable and acceptable on even fairly washboarded roads, and yet unloaded the ride is still comfortable, the springs are not too stiff for the weight they're carrying. If required the Timbrens act as both overload springs and as bump-stops. The front likewise was lifted such a minor amount that I was able to use those longer upper balljoints to keep the upper control arms properly positioned, so I didn't have to buy expensive aftermarket upper arms, and the alignment shop had no trouble aligning it. When unloaded the back does sit a little higher than the front, I got perhaps 2" lift in front and 3" in back, when the bed is loaded with supplies or cargo it sits level, and when the truck is towing it's perhaps a half inch lower a the whel arches in back than in front at the arches. Just this past weekend I took the truck on a trail rated 4/5 and had no trouble with it. Looking at it one can tell it's modified, but subtly so. Steel wheels painted black, raw aluminum shocks, normal black-powdercoated springs in front and painted leaves in the back.

[@amarokadventuresuk9458]

Great video Andrew. I tuned my suspension once i'd bought all my gear. I had no idea what the weight of all my gear was going to be, plus passengers and fluids. added a 5% margin. Vehicle is now perfect. Always expect a harder ride when empty and that's the compromise.

[@markhowells13]

Unless you go softer for day to day, and then have airbag helper springs for when you have weight ?

[@nickgood8166]

Possibly the most useful, for most punters, ASPW video I've seen.

[@thedeathwobblechannel6539]

Your knowledge and experience are very valuable.thanks for sharing

[@alexfrankl7861]

Thats why i choose OME suspension, they have fantastic spring rates, even their heaviest springs are very compliant when empty.

[@daniellavoie8379]

That was a very good workshop video!. Looking forward to the next video. Thank you!

[@3TZZZ]

Excellent advice. Of course starting with a Defender which has the lowest centre of gravity and best 4 coil springs in the business from factory in the first place is a big advantage. I’d hate to be loading a top heavy steel roofed troopy, with narrow rear wheel track and leaf springs!

[@landrover1155]

Its about being sensible. I have a Triton with rear 40 litre water container between the chassis rails, 100kg canopy, 65 litre fridge behind the rear axle, roof bars on the canopy and 30kg well behind the rear axle on those rails, and rooftop tent on the cabin. At GVM touring in Cape York, including parts of the Old Telegraph Track it is a gem. I have slightly stiffer rear leaves (40mm lift) and slight lift in the IFS but stock coils in the front. I run very good aftermarket struts and rear shocks (EFS XTR). The vehicle handles very nearly as well as without roof loading (much better than my Discovery 2 with good suspension and less weight on the roof). It is about driving and loading as sensibly as you can. I run 31 inch all terrain tyres in light truck...heavier but tough. No extreme lifts, no extreme tyre sizes. Cheers

[@Peter79123]

👍🛻 very good explanation !

[@BiggyF16]

Thanks Andrew for sharing your tried and tested experience.

[@NathanKingOverland]

Great video and great information! I learned a few of those lessons the hard way. Water on the roof among them. 😬

[@Berserkeroffroad]

Such a simplly-put lesson. Thank you for sharing, Andrew.

[@solarbuduk]

Really excellent video, thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience on this subject.

[@Chris-ut6eq]

Great discussion about topics that are easy to ignore at our own peril.

[@chrisdown2591]

THANK YOU! I have never done it, but I had thought of putting a water tank on a roof rack so that I could get heated water....I WILL NEVER DO THIS! THANK YOU!

[@SmokedSilverBullet]

Best tips ever. Thanks Andrew

[@jeffrwheelock]

I am glad that you touched on the heavy loads up-top such as water. I will be paying close attention to that on my next trip, keeping the 20gal of water in the truck bed. Good stuff, thank you

[@RogerM88]

One of my favorites builds would be a Defender with the 3.0 D-4D Toyota swap. Perfect reliable tourer to keep for decades.

[@imnotusingmyrealname4566]

Nah that engine is problematic. The most reliable Toyota small diesel is that 3 liter inline-4 EFI naturally aspirated diesel that they still build for those white Toyotas that operate all over the globe.

[@RogerM88]

@@imnotusingmyrealname4566 yes, but the option from the 3.0 D-4D was due to be a more modern platform and balanced power and fuel consumption for the Defender stock drive lines.

[@imnotusingmyrealname4566]

@@RogerM88 yeah that engine is not powerful at all, like 100hp but for a more powerful and fuel efficient option the best would probably be the 2.8 D-4D without the emissions systems they also build for the white Toyotas

[@alexfrankl7861]

There's a reason why engineering mobs do Isuzu 4j conversion kits and not toyota.

[@RogerM88]

@@imnotusingmyrealname4566 as an European the biggest issue would be the legalization process of such swap.

[@robertovacaaguilar6501]

What a great presentation on such an importan topic!! Thanks a lot Andrew...two thumbs up!!

[@offroadoffshore153]

16:12 The worst examples are 4 door utes with canopies on the back sometimes with spare wheels hanging off the back, where half the load is located behind the rear axle. Overloaded the outcomes is chassis opens up between the axles.

[@Lazarus-aap]

Thank you for sharing this. For me this is very valuable information which I will implement in my future and also first offroad vehicle! I've saved the video

[@ahmadahmadi7263]

top man . who shares he’s wisdom with sincerity ❤

[@Gerbyq]

How beautiful the paint on that defender. But yeah I love my 2 inches lift with old men emu springs so I can go 33's with my Landcruiser. Wouldn't go more than that.

[@trevorcourt1403]

Sure is nice

[@scottbruce9872]

Wow. Thank you for the informative video on suspension.

[@thedolt9215]

I love the phrase, mechanical sympathy… Perfect! Too many people don’t have it! And it cost a lot of money when you don’t

[@gypsyking4234]

Brilliant suspension one-o-one, Anderw. Thank you!

[@DieselAddiction]

Totally agree, too many people don’t do their homework when setting up suspension for outback then they try to blame the poor Outback mechanic when he tells them what the real cause is. Airbags and leaf springs are my pet hate because it changes the fulcrum point and cracks the chassis back. Travel light don’t freeze at night.

[@Jason-cl8hk]

Andrew makes some good points here, given that Overlanding is always a compromise for the suspension given what we want to carry. That being said, having almost completed my Landy for a trip to Morocco I’m carrying nothing on the roof and any heavy items as close to the centre line as I can get whilst keeping weight to a minimum.

[@wodgesad]

This man speaks sense and I personally enjoy the sanctimonious nature of the delivery.

[@karimalameddine5092]

Would be nice to get a tour of this vehicle if you have the footage and get your perspective on it. I am aware its sold... I went to see it and it was gone! Thanks for the video and the info! 👏👏👏🙂

[@UNSINKABLEII]

Good advice 👍 You see so many people getting the fundamentals wrong.

[@mateobravo9212]

Well said. Standard all the way, with possible exception of an inch or two on tyre profiles. Works for my multiple 300Tdi Discoverys. Greetings from Spain - the land where it's almost impossible to freely mod anything!😂

[@Mark-yf5pm]

You are correct in your summary of the suspension and loading support, and suspension flexibility as you say, if you are stupid enough to overload the roof area, at least consider heavier swaybars it won't save you but it will help.

[@robopines]

Fully agree, keep to manufacturers specifications and keep your vehicle mechanically standard and presto, no problems. My self built overlanding 110 is within LR max 3000kgs and suspension designed for that. Mechanically as per factory and 400000kms later and maintained by the book, never a problem !

[@BottleJackBuddy]

Thank you for putting this out there!

[@davidmurphy2960]

Great summary on suspension Andrew. 2nd only to tyres as a primary upgrade. Weight is such an issue offroad especially high up. I remember driving around overloaded LC70s on Cape York. Unfortunately, that and side impact safety are why 4x4s are getting too wide for tight tracks.

[@thomasmullinsiii7759]

100% agreed. I have a 2003 chevy tahoe here in the USA. Most people put 6 inch lifts (that do not increase load capacity- just longer shocks that aren't stronger and spring spacers) and the center of gravity is stupid high and they have very little suspension travel for the most part. I have a heavy duty coils in the rear that add 1.5 inches of lift and 400lbs higher load rating than factory, with a 2.5 inch torsion key lift up front, and bilstien 5100 extended travel shocks all the way around. On my trips I put as much inside or on a hitch mounted cargo carrier as I can. The only things on my roof are spare 33 inch tire (cannot fit underneath the truck), traction boards, and a little bit of gasoline. Fully loaded, my center of gravity is still much lower than a tahoe on a 6 inch lift that is fully unloaded. Eventually I want to build a storage system inside so there's less on the hitch. Also want to build a rear bar that has a tire swing and fuel can mounts.

[@bamafencer12]

Used to have an 06 Tahoe, miss that thing. Nice to see some GM and US followers here. I have 05' 2500 and will be adding the 5160 shocks. How do you like the 5100s?

[@thomasmullinsiii7759]

@@bamafencer12 they are phenomenal

[@ronmastas]

As a engineer, I approve this message. Now I don't have to explain to folks, I'll just link your video.

[@richardwatson5996]

The roof top water rack the perfect accessory to pair with your light bars and open diffs

[@mikebrennan6165]

Thanks for this Andrew, this has to be one of the most useful videos for a long time, not that your other recent ones haven't been! I just hope people listen. I live on the Welsh borders in the UK and every weekend there's lots of kitted up 4x4s looking great but with loads of gear on a very heavy looking roofracks, the Discovery 2s also seem to have very jacked up suspension, a current fasion I think. I regularly wonder how much, if any attention, they have paid to the roof loading weight.

[@hannahranga]

> I regularly wonder how much, if any attention, they have paid to the roof loading weight. Absolutely none, considering a d2 is rated for 30kg on the roof off road. It's less a strength issue and more the weight up there does bad things for stability. It's not too bad with a 100kg rtt when you're loaded up but empty it's unpleasant.

[@romantkachuk168]

The best stock suspension setup is on the LR Discovery 3/4. Heavy-duty bilsteins wrapped with high-quality airbags on stupidly strong double-wishbone control arms with amazing travel. It performs flawlessly in any condition. Highway? Amazing. Towing? Easy. Heavy load? Self-leveling susp on an HD frame Off-road? Height-adjustable ride with great articulation and a cross-airbag link for better grip. Uneven camping spot? Inflate/deflate front or back Reliability is proven with the 10+ years of service

[@bamafencer12]

Great video Andrew!!

[@wesleyconn620]

indeed all well presented. the only reason for a lift kit is for brake over angle for that i also recommend a slightly higher rated spring not to make load capacity higher but to keep the height this along with the correct dampers makes for the same ride performance as standard ... question is how often do you really need the extra height :D

[@markhowells13]

Yea, im not sure what circles we are discussing, but i haven't met anyone here in Australia that thinks stiffer springs increase your GVM ? there are literally engineered and certified GVM upgrade products if you want that.

[@sarinsarin7898]

the reason and only reason for a lift kit is to gain more travel when offroading.

[@johncunningham4820]

You were 100% SPOT - ON in all of this . The MANUFACTURERS GVM and GCM are what the Chassis is Engineered to handle . Any Mods to exceed those numbers ALSO require significant Re-Engineering of the Frame itself . Inevitably at a Weight increase . And , often , Governmental " Design Rules " GVM/GCM's are 30% lower . And the Idiots that carry Liquids on the Roof are simply Clueless .

[@robertlewis7237]

thank you for video as right about water and fuel top roof what does wrong traveling

[@GustavoAmaral74]

Tks Andrew! Great video!

[@-Belshazzar-]

Fantastic video! Well said

[@OvidiuHretcanu]

I drive a tall car with a roof box, on the road, and I never put heavy stuff there. It is astonishing how hard is for some people to figure out, instinctively, basic dynamics. Even when they are buying groceries, they put the eggs and the vegetable first and the beer cans on the top of the bag!

[@nrs91]

I want to see more of that 110! Can we expect that in a future series or special?

[@4xoverland]

There is one video coming soon with this One-Ten.

[@streakychambers658]

Good article Andrew. 👍👍

[@Isaac0516]

That defender is really beautiful. Andrew, please feature defenders again. 😊

[@Thepigfromthepot]

Land Rover don’t pay the bills mate

[@sunroameroverland]

On my custom rig. I had to add sumo springs as a progressive bump stop. Already have valved shocks and custom springs .Hoping that is easier on the Chassis.

[@capt.stubing5604]

Great explanation of these issues and things are designed to work.

[@perpelle]

My biggest issue with manufacturers is that max payload on standard suspension is often impossible to reach with a good ride. My -21 hilux (with the updated more comfortable rear suspension) has a max payload of 1000kg excluding driver. I have around 560 kg including me and it bottoms out way, way to often (And I drive 95% on-road). It even bottoms out on sharp speedbumps at the grocery store.

[@Luggynug]

I get the frustration, but as Andrew said manufacturers tend to design for the middle ground. If they tuned the suspension for the highest rating, then it will be stiff when empty. People in the US buy "Super Duty" trucks going for payload and then complain that it rides like a dump truck when empty. My Xterra has really weak springs in the rear as well. If you drive with weight for any length of time they weaken to the point they keep bottoming out. When I finally replaced them, I upgraded their weight rating to compensate for that increased constant load, realizing that should I pull everything out it the ride would be stiffer.

[@christopherlewinski4173]

Intelligent take on gvmw. May be the only video out there in it. Critical point that shock absorbers are for dampening the movements and roll of the car.

[@forestroadexplorer]

Extreme good information, thank you very much 😊

[@MrKeenaz]

About time somebody took the time to explain the correct reason of suspension. Well done buddy.

[@1unsung971]

very good. Thank you!

[@KangoV]

Excellent! But what about progressive rate springs or helper springs?

[@sweatmanjim]

WOW 40 YEARS...My how time flies!

[@WasatchBDC]

Great content, and what a gorgeous Defender!

[@davidlewington3324]

I wonder how and if this advice should be modified when towing, how much rear sagging is acceptable vs staying level?

[@gordowg1wg145]

Love the restained 'english' rant and agree 100% with what you said. There are a LOT of stupid, un-needed mod's people do that are not only often counterproductive, but done to vehicles that never leave sealed/tarmac/concrete surfaces. Even with people that do get their tyres dirty, it seems a big result of most modifications is a much higher probability of appearing in a KZbin video of the "idiots in 4x4s" type. With a Landy, if Iwere looking to doing serious 4WD work, diff' locks would probably be high up on the list. YES, not only are roof racks a concern with roll-over, but they increase the chance of structual failure of the roof structure when overloaded. A properly designed external roll cage may increase the load capacity, but also the need to "use" the roll cage.

[@johanngustafson604]

I've emailed Toyota about the load rating for the roof. They responded saying they do not specify a load rating for the roof, just their roof carrier. I loaded my car and roof on stock suspension and it was horrid crossing east to west on Fraser Island. I changed the suspension (shocks and springs to what I carry) and wow, totally different ride. Couldn't feel the weight in the car. Still interesting they don't specify a load rating for the roof.

[@landrover1155]

What model vehicle?

[@rg3412]

You can hear a true master of its craft by the hint of desperation which comes from the feeling of being surrounded by neophytes that don’t know what they are doing.

[@warren6899]

From South Africa.... I'm aware of the impact of water on the roof, and have a 60l tank up there.... but hear me out. I only use it for traveling on hard surface to my destination, because the water in most towns is now not to be trusted. To slightly negate the lack of baffles I keep the tank full, and when done, I fully drain it. When rough roading, I use 15l plastic containers that do not have a tap inside the back ... (I think it's ridiculous having a water container with a blooming hole in the bottom), instead I use a cap that has the tap fitting, and put the one I'm using on its side. Back to my RTT, solo traveling, I can have potable water for up to 15 days, using a basin bath routine. My vehicle is a disco ii 2002 which I have re- configured into an in vehicle sleeping camper. Comments ?

[@ailo4x4]

I've done the same thing with fuel. I have kept 2 jerry cans (40L total) on my roof rack to get from the last fuel stop to where the dirt track actually starts. Then both get transferred into the main tank. I think that is well within the safety margin even for an old Land Rover. Regarding water, I saw a video from a guy who made a PVC drain pipe into a hot water tank for a shower that he put down the centre of his roof rack. The best part was, being an engineer by trade, he was smart enough to put 2 baffles in the tube to keep it from sloshing. I think it held about 30L in total.

[@kingduckford]

I have a light duty 86 F250 that has been in the family for decades. The previous owner wanted to use it as a heavy duty F250, and added his own home made extra springs to the back. Indeed, it does keep the back from sagging, and it can seem to handle a lot of weight without any issue. But, as you mention, it is over sprung when the truck is empty, and the rear bounces and the ride is terrible without payload. It takes a few hundred pounds in the box to make it ride right. Everything is an art, and suspension builds are no exception. There is a right and a wrong.

[@TobIas-or9dj]

Lets be honest here. The main problem with any vehicle is weight. Weight kills performance. Not just on a race track, but also offroad and overlanding. You want to learn how to overland and do it without adding 3 Tons of stuff? Buy a Lada Niva or a Suzuki Jimny and get the kit the backpackers get. Instead of 5kg super comfy big outdoor chairs, get some Helinox chair one xl. Instead of massiv cookers and Travel buddies get some ultra light backpacker cookers. Keep it simple, keep it light. Most of overlanding today feels like a competition for the most kit fitted. „Look at my fold out bath tub“. „This is where my Camera Station is, right next to the library and the Octocopter garage“ Feels like all of these fold out kitchens and massiv camera stations with integrated ovens and 4 lever espresso machines make people loose focus of what overlanding used to be about. Exploring Adventure Nature All while being a bit exposed… i miss that

[@elpatudo3670]

Thanks Toblas🎯! "fold out 🛁" 😅😂 🤣 😭 🍻

[@davidweber4984]

It would be interesting to hear you views on the proliferation of GVM upgrades sold here in Australia which are nothing more than springs and shocks.

[@4xoverland]

They are often nothing more than springs and shocks is true. The difference is, that they have been tested and approved by engineers. The safety tests are thorough and this makes all the difference.

[@davidlewington3324]

@@4xoverland I wonder whether the engineering assessment for gvm upgrades also allow for the impact on other vehicle systems such as brakes, transmission etc

[@karlschultz-tu8rm]

So I agree to the argument on coil sprung 4x4 vehicles employing that set up front and back. I would have liked and looked forward to Andrews views on rear leaf sprung and front coil sprung 4x4 vehicles as to how that argument may be weighted. In terms of roof racks and the weight carried, yes stay within the permissable loads. However carrying liquids such as water and fuel may not necessarily be wrong on top of a roof rack, sometimes it MAY be necessary. It's the containers that must be considered. Container's with baffles for either fuel or water in my view are acceptable on a roof rack. Of course the terrain in overlanding is the key player and the driver naturally. In all cases when challenging and negotiating a variety of terrains know the limits of your vehicle and as a driver know your own limits. There is no excuse to be a knuckle head and just blunder onward, your choices deem your outcomes, overlanding, on a safari or an expedition adventure is not about been foolish and exerting male testosterone. But about the sights, sounds and destinations. 😊

[@lylemacdonald6672]

Concise in-service on suspension. About roof wejght; roof racks are all the rage with tents and all sorts of kit including spare tires. Weight not withstanding, all that extra wind resistance plays havoc on fuel milage.