Ironman 4x4 Suspension Kit for Subaru Review

Join me in interviewing TEAM 4X Member, Luke Moussa (Member #14) about his brand new Ironman 4x4 Suspension Lift Kit System for his 2017 Subaru Outback 3.6R. Along the way, we spend time exploring the Ironwood Forest of southern Arizona.
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[@4XPEDITION]

Thank you to TEAM 4X Member #14, Luke Moussa for participating in this video, and thank you to Ironman 4X4 for working with Luke on this exciting new field-tested product.

[@jameshouse1268]

Thank you, Scott, for this great one-on-one with Luke. You both hit on great ideas and offered solid explanations. Well done!

[@lukemoussa1298]

Thanks James!

[@4XPEDITION]

Thanks, James.

[@lukemoussa1298]

Hi Everyone. Here is an update from Ironman I wanted to share. I have discovered that this iteration of the ATS did not account for the additional 260lbs of the 3.6 motor and it was designed on a stock 2.5 4cyl motor. If you are NOT installing on a 3.6 engine then you will get a 2 inch lift with the ATS on a stock vehicle. Ironman will be coming out with a "constant load" spring in the future but they have a lot of other projects so it will take some time, and I don't think this will address the weight of the 3.6 engine anyhow. For those with a 3.6; you can add a top hat strut spacer but it is not recommended to go more than a half-inch tall on the spacer. What I may do is try inserting a "coil spring buffer" to see if I can get the nose back up a bit, and then I will test that. Hope that helps and thank you all for your comments.

[@MrDisco-sx6ci]

Thank you for this update, I'm really interested in this suspension kit as well, we have a 3.6L outback too. May I know if you have less clearance in the front now vs stock or was it just no lift at all. Thanks!

[@lukemoussa1298]

@@MrDisco-sx6ci Hi Carlo. You will indeed increase your ground clearance by 2 inches in the rear and about 1.5 inches in front. You will not lose any clearance when compared to the stock setup. If helpful here are a couple measurements from my Outback: - *measurement from ground to front bumper corner immediately after front tire = ~11 and 1/4. - measurement from ground to rear rocker panel immediately in front of rear tire = ~12 and 1/2. * note that I also installed a larger, and much much heavier battery than stock. I'm going to try installing coil buffers (www.rubbershox.com/) in the front to see if that helps reduce the nose dive and I'll update with results (might not be for a while).

[@MatthewHeiskell]

I have a VERY similar problem with my 19' Forester. Instead of the big 3.6L, I have a heavy steel winch bumper. I think that I found the solution, I just need to take the struts apart and add this plastic piece. I tried the rubber coil buffer inserts last weekend and they kept popping out. www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HWOKJ8A

[@lukemoussa1298]

@@MatthewHeiskell Ahhhh...thanks for sharing. I was going to try the coil buffers but then was worried about that issue. I still have the LP 2" spacers and was going to put those on in the front and hope it won't be too tall for the CVs and other components. What are your thoughts on that? I might just try it in the name of science since I have them, and if no bueno I can remove them, hopefully without too much damage being done. Thanks!

[@MatthewHeiskell]

@@lukemoussa1298 I tried the coil buffers, two types, but they kept popping out, even with a ton of zip ties. The last link that I sent was for a part that is too large. The right size is this one: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HWOKMF0 But I don't know if that will work either. On Monday, I am going to contact Ironman and ask about stiffer front springs for the 3.6L outback. I want to get some of those for my forester. That is the best solution.

[@bruceyyyyy]

I have this same kit. Pretty happy thus far but between the 3.6 weight and the sag in the rear I wish they would option a higher strength coil. I've tried contacting them multiply times with no response. Sounds like you have a better method to communicate. Please forward this info to them if you get time! Good video. Thanks for sharing!

[@lukemoussa1298]

Thanks, bruceyyyy, and I appreciate the videos you did on your install and review. I agree with you and hope they will offer a higher strength coil. I'll keep track of comments such as yours and forward them along. I would like to see Ironman come up with a front bumper design like the one you built. A combination of a better approach angle and the ATS with stronger coils would check a lot of boxes. I think they are off to a great start - a very well balanced on-road/off-road performing suspension system, with long travel in the wheels that keeps tires on the ground...(but now it needs to handle a weighted vehicle).

[@bruceyyyyy]

@@lukemoussa1298 I'm still needing to edit a couple videos. I've got the footage for them but I'm slow and lame and editing. Just saw this channel and theirs is on point! Subscribed.

[@lukemoussa1298]

@@bruceyyyyy got a question for you since you have done a lot of testing and have a 'if it were your car' scenario: I'm thinking of adding the 2" strut top spacers (I still have) on top of the ATS in the front only. My reasoning is that it would compensate for the weight of the 3.6 engine and add a little more height also. Do you think that would be a mistake and would cause more harm than what it's worth? I won't hold you to the result. Thanks.

[@bruceyyyyy]

@@lukemoussa1298 I not only think that's a bad idea I think it's not possible without extensive modifications. The brake line and ABS sensor wires are likely not gonna be long enough in the rear. You'll have a 2,3? piece lift block for the rear sub frame and will need to source longer bolts. The angles on the driveshaft will probably exceed the design spec and might bind without dropping the transmission mount. The front will have essentially 4" of lift which is way past the design spec. You could lower the front cradle too but you'll need to extend some components again. Plus an extension for the steering column if it's moved. If you want a little more out of the lift I would go with the saggy butt spacers that set on top. They're usually only a half inch of lift and that should still be close to spec. No need to extend lines or mess with triple spacer blocks. I was told somewhere that they're working on a 3.6 / heavy duty option. Hopefully they let me trade mine in but I kinda doubt it.

[@lukemoussa1298]

@@bruceyyyyy Those are all excellent observations and points. It sounds like adding anything above a half-inch will open a can of worms not worth the small gain in front-end clearance. Ironman did tell me they will be developing a kit with a heavy duty option. So, like you mentioned, it is probably best to wait for that and trade-in, and keep everything to spec in the meantime. I think @Matthew Heiskell has a good solution with this www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HWOKJ8A. Thanks for the reply!

[@LeoZhou0424]

Hey, any problems with the CV joint at all?

[@51249ca]

I need to find a silver Thule cargo box (instead of the black one I have now). Getting jealous of the color coordination.

[@4XPEDITION]

Ha! Nice.

[@djxpress]

Glad to be one of the first few to comment. Video has 215 views as of this comment. I'm sure when I check back in a few weeks, this video will surpass the 100k mark.

[@4XPEDITION]

Lol.

[@seanwatson3790]

Airing down and up is fine when you're in the desert and the weather is nice . But try being in Colorado when it's like 20 out and you need to stand outside while everyone airs up. It sucks when it's freezing out to air back up , and it does make you choose to not bother airing down ,.and just dealing with the ride quality

[@lukemoussa1298]

Hi Sean. Very good point, and if that is the case then I too would consider if airing down in those conditions is worth it. Thanks.

[@seanwatson3790]

@@lukemoussa1298 usually I do. But I'm on a youtube channel where the person who runs the channel deliberately doesn't air down unless he doesn't have a choice because his belief is most newer off roaders may not have an air compressor or quick deflators

[@4XPEDITION]

Why I don't do it that often.

[@elmerdargueta]

Just got mine for my Subaru crosstrek! Really excited to go from stock suspension with 215 goodriches and methods to the 2 inch lift!

[@4XPEDITION]

Right on!

[@InfinityAwaits]

Worried about the cv axles at all?

[@1966stumpjumper]

Good review but doesn’t look lifted ? Back end seems lower than front ? Is this a 2” lift ?

[@4XPEDITION]

It’s a suspension system not a body lift like mine.

[@lukemoussa1298]

There was ~300 pounds in the rear including the spare tire hitch so that did compress the backend. I did loose clearance in front. I believe that is due to the weight of the 3.6 engine and I have been speaking with Ironman 4x4 about this. Thanks.

[@NO17DownUnder]

Hi there, I did the same suspension and now my Camber is out a lot, the shop said it is because of the lift. I'm taking it to another shop next week to investigate. The front right is +2 degrees, surely it should be better than that.

[@lukemoussa1298]

Hello. Camber on all 4? Or just the rear? Mine is off on the rear but I can’t recall how much. I’ll look to see if I can find that paperwork. Might be worth having the dealership perform the alignment if that is an option.

[@NO17DownUnder]

@@lukemoussa1298 thanks for the reply, front is out and positive the back is negative. I’m taking it in this Tuesday to a mechanic that knows his stuff. I hope it works, I live this car so much, we were on a nice drive today!

[@JayJay-gl2df]

@@NO17DownUnder did you get your steering geometry sorted out a guy in Perth Australia had the same lift kit and he's was out as well so he took it to a tyre fitting place that specialises in wheel alignment and they were able to correct it , his advice was don't worry about Iron Man doing the alignment because they can't do it properly

[@NO17DownUnder]

@@JayJay-gl2df yip thanks, STechnics in Perth got it right, enjoying the car now.

[@lukemoussa1298]

Getting back to this. Have the alignment shop loosen the suspension and settle while on the rack. Likely the installer torqued everything down while in the air.

[@nickdibiase8754]

Great Video. Like to hear about getting those wheels and tires on without a lift. Got a new crosstrek I’d like to mount some AT on. Ty guys.

[@lukemoussa1298]

Hey Nick. I know one of the Team4X (4xpedition.com/) members did this to their Crosstrek. I can't find that post at the moment, but I believe they were able to use the stock wheels with Falken WIldpeak AT Trail tires (www.falkentire.com/tires/light-truck-suv-cuv-tires/wildpeak/t-trail-tire ). Those are tires that Falken specifically designed for cross-over vehicles and are different than the Falken Wildpeak AT3w.

[@4XPEDITION]

Thx.

[@gfd1941]

I've had this kit for 19,000 miles and I go on OHV trails all the time in the Mojave desert in my 2021 premium Forester. I love them but it's not much of a lift around 1 inch after it breaks in. If I park next to a unloaded stock one with all my gear in my car its almost the same height. Also they make a bit of noise now and I think one is going out and I'm not happy about it.

[@4XPEDITION]

Yeah, I noticed that about Lukes when I was riding in it.

[@lukemoussa1298]

Is it a clunking noise from the front end at low speed over uneven terrain? It’s likely due to the suspension being torqued down while in the air and may be coming from the end links and stabilizer bar. I haven’t verified it but plan on disconnecting the front links and stabilizer bar to isolate the clunk. If so reattaching and torquing while on ground should fix it. It’s super annoying but not endemic to the Ironman kit.

[@lukemoussa1298]

Try disconnecting the sway bars and see if the clunk goes away. I’m going to install Rallitek adjustable endlinks and see if that does the trick by putting the sway bars in the right geometry.

[@jlpxtp8503]

Just ordered my kit, got the spec C coils!!

[@lukemoussa1298]

Hey Josh. How do you like the spec-c setup? Are you in a 3.6?

[@jlpxtp8503]

@@lukemoussa1298 hey man, everything has been pretty good so far, I haven’t noticed any sag in the shocks and yes I have the 3.6

[@lukemoussa1298]

@@jlpxtp8503 nice! Any noise from the stabilizer bar?

[@jlpxtp8503]

@@lukemoussa1298 no just a slight driveline vibration at 20 mph that smooths out quick, I bought the stabilizer just need to install it. Other than that no scrapes, bangs, creaks, or any noises at all.

[@lukemoussa1298]

@@jlpxtp8503 awesome 👍. I put the CKE transmission mount in and that took care of 95% of it.

[@necronorris]

I just ordered an 2023 OBW and want to start doing some overland driving and camping. Is there a resource you would recommend to find trails appropriate for this vehicle? Im just not really sure where to start lol

[@4XPEDITION]

Ha! Yes... the 4XPEDITION KZbin Channel. ;-) Generally speaking, the outback is best used on what would be referred to as "soft-roading" routes. This means National Forest Roads primarily. My best suggestion would be to look for a Subi group to join in your area that offers organized group trips. Mountain Roo is a good one that offers chapters around the USA. Joining TEAM 4X, our adventurer community, can connect you with some people in your area (depending on where you live) too.

[@chucklyon6795]

Is there any issue with CV joint longevity with either LP spacer lift or Iron Man lift?

[@4XPEDITION]

After 4 years and plenty of off-road adventuring I have had no problems yet.

[@lukemoussa1298]

No problems on my end. I have been told that the Outback don't like to be lifted more that 2 inches but I know others have gone 2.5 inches. I'd stay at 2 inches or below.

[@roberthopper4269]

With a lift kit and bigger tires do you recalibrate the Eyesight system?

[@4XPEDITION]

I did not.

[@lukemoussa1298]

I did not either. Adaptive cruise still works and the Subie is still beepie.

[@robertnicoletti3846]

Any suggestions for a good tire for everyday use and off-roading? A good in-between tire?

[@4XPEDITION]

Maybe a Falken Wild Peak?

[@robertnicoletti3846]

Thank you

[@lukemoussa1298]

@@4XPEDITION The wildpeaks are good balance but puncture easily on the rocks and thorns in the SW. The BFG TKOs on my 4Runner never have. I'll probably go with BFGs when it is time to do so.

[@lukemoussa1298]

Also, keep in mind that either tire will make your Outback not so comfortable any more and add a lot of cabin noise. Just an FYI in case you didn't consider that.

[@paulauksztulewicz4803]

Great video! Where did you purchase your hood rock deflector?

[@4XPEDITION]

That is a question for Luke. I want to know the same thing, Luke!

[@MTB831]

Any driveline or axle vibrations? Alot of that mentioned on the forums about this kit.. Also does your front end feel wavy or does it bob up and down over speed bump like bumps? I heard that these kits were made with springs to hold up the weight of the cars with the 2.0 motor not the bigger motors, and it tends to be to soft up front cause of the bigger motor...

[@lukemoussa1298]

Hi Austin, good questions. There is a minimal driveline vibration at low speed but it’s momentary and happened even when I had the LP spacers installed before. I’m not totally satisfied with the front end because of what you mentioned. These springs were designed for the 2.0 and not the 3.6. I may add a half inch strut top spacer just to gain some additional approach clearance. Otherwise I’m really satisfied with the system and it handles well. The long travel helps get through obstacles as long as the Outback’s nose doesn’t get in the way.

[@4XPEDITION]

I don't think so.

[@ericmoss8344]

What wheel/tire combo are you running? Love the looks of those... along w/the rest of the suspension.

[@lukemoussa1298]

Hi Eric. Apologies for the delayed response. The wheels are RTX Envy Black/Machined Bronze (17x7.5 5x114.3 +38) and the tires are Falken AT3 Wildpeaks (245/65R17). Thanks for your comment and I recommend this setup, especially the tires. They are snow rated and perform very well on the pavement with minimal noise at high speeds. They do great on dirt roads as well and I have crawled (and scraped) through some pretty rough spots (for an Outback) with them.

[@freedom_foz_6337]

@@lukemoussa1298 do you have an IG? Do you run a sway bar or disconnect?

[@lukemoussa1298]

@@freedom_foz_6337 I keep the bars connected and have not tried running disconnected yet. I have an IG that I could do a better job posting to and you may have just inspired me: Team4x_DesertWagon.

[@freedom_foz_6337]

@@lukemoussa1298 thanks for taking the time to share! It’s easier to connect on IG sometimes!

[@4XPEDITION]

He shared below. thx!

[@kaboom06]

Does the ATS kit comes with the sway bar relocation/spacer kit?

[@4XPEDITION]

That is something Luke would need to answer, Luke?

[@lukemoussa1298]

It comes with the subframe spacer kit and some people disconnect the stabilizer bar and end links for extended travel and have not noticed a huge stability depreciation while on surface streets. I would recommend keeping the stabilizer bar connected and perhaps adding Rallitek adjustable e to the setup. Remember to torque down everything while on the ground.

[@Scott7-z3g]

How much clearance do you have know with this lift

[@Vinodchristudas]

Hi mr scott. do you still have the ikamper rooftent.if so,r you planning to sell and what would be the price ?.kindly let me know.

[@4XPEDITION]

Hi there. No, I sold both of them. Thanks for asking!

[@phillooh1]

Thanks for the video, can i use the same on a 2013 subaru outback.

[@4XPEDITION]

Not sure. I do know that you can't fit larger tires under an older Outback including a 2013.

[@JamesMartin-vm2zo]

Hey guys - great video with lots of valuable information. I wanted to ask Luke if he had also looked at the Rallitek spring lift kits (using the stock struts) before buying the Ironman kit. I have a stock 2018 Outback 2.5 that I want to lift a bit and add more capable tires/wheels. I've been going softroading and camping with an iKamper on the roof and a hitch-mount bike rack with 2 mountain bikes loaded. Rear-end sag is pretty noticeable with this load. The spring rates with the Rallitek kit seem to be a bit higher, but the Ironman kit would be ideal if they had an option for stiffer rear springs. Also - do you guys have any 4Xpedition members here in So. California (San Diego)? Seems like a great group to get involved with. Thanks!

[@4XPEDITION]

I will see if Luke will reply to this, James.

[@lukemoussa1298]

Hi James - great question, appoligies for the delay. The quick answer is that I was looking first at the Ralitek spring/shock combo but then went with Ironman because it was an all-in-one package. That said, the spring rate of the Ironman ATS is too low for the weight that you will carry and it is actually lower that the stock Subaru spring so you will have more sag with the ATS than you will with stock springs. Ironman will develop a new ATS with stiffer springs in the future because they are aware of this feedback from their customers. So, you can go with Ralitek overload springs now, or wait for the ATS overload version which is probably not going to be released soon. I will say that I love the performance of the ATS kit and Ironman has a great product right out the gate, so I imagine it will get better - just depends how long you are willing to wait. James - take a look at the Team 4X members page located here: 4xpedition.com/join/member-signup/ we have team members across the country including southern California. Members have access to the community forum and we also hold Zoom chats to discuss many things like mods, gear, meetups and even camp cooking. You would also have exclusive discounts to vendors that sponsor us, such as Ironman 4x4. I believe there are still Founding Membership slots available that include a welcome gift set with swag and goodies. We are growing and a community and would welcome you on board. Cheers!

[@scottatbuzzmaven]

Which tire carrier is luke using, and on which hitch? Thanks!

[@lukemoussa1298]

Hi Scott! That tire carrier is a RIGd Supply UltraSwing Multi-fit (www.rigdsupply.com/products/rigd-ultraswing-hitch-carrier-multi-fit?gclid=CjwKCAjwg4-EBhBwEiwAzYAlshJC2lkYIJkAyeeS5oRULP_7hlK7iauQD-bJISdQM4mqP-aGmKmIoRoC6nYQAvD_BwE) The receiver hitch I went with is a Curt (www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Hitch/Subaru/Outback+Wagon/2017/C13410.html?VehicleID=201786679) I am not sure if I will run that Ultra swing on the Outback any longer, especially full-time, because it weighs 70 lbs without the spare tire on it, and that's a lot of weight to have hanging from a unibody. I'll likely keep it and use it on the 4runner and figure out a different method for carting around the spare tire. Also, remember that with one of these hitches your back up camera will be obstructed.

[@4XPEDITION]

Not sure.

[@paulbateman63]

Great video. "Rick Grimes" in a Subaru taking on The Walking Dead with partner Scott 👍😃 Like these one on one vids 👍

[@lukemoussa1298]

Haha! 'We're doing stuff, Paul...things'

[@paulbateman63]

Luke M came across a really easy going genuine guy for definite, great friend and knowledgeable im sure 👍

[@lukemoussa1298]

@@paulbateman63 that's mighty kind of you to say! It's a little cringeworthy to watch myself at times so this helps : ) . Thank you, Paul. All the best.

[@4XPEDITION]

Luke you get over it and eventually don’t care that much. Ha!

[@semihguven454]

hi, does your eye sight works properly after lift? thx

[@4XPEDITION]

Yes it does!

[@lukemoussa1298]

Still works fine. No recalibration required.

[@leezx5032]

You think it would fit a forester sj?

[@4XPEDITION]

I think Luke would need to answer that question, Luke?

[@lukemoussa1298]

Hi Lee - have a look at the Ironman 4x4 site located here: ironman4x4america.com/categories/?_bc_fsnf=1&sort=pricedesc&Make=Subaru&Model=Forester&Year=2020

[@nicksdroid63]

Pretty sad that there is nothing for the 14-18 Forester. Every other model has at least springs. Nothing at all for the 14-18. Last year for the XT and a Manual. Sad very sad

[@4XPEDITION]

True.

[@seandavey7085]

I'll only believe what people say about gear when they pay for it full price and don't get 'sponsored' and get a discount or for free. Did Luke get this kit for free? At the end of the video he was asked about ride height and he actually says he loses clearance. Who wants to lose clearance!? There seemed to be hesitation in his voice as he said 'it's the first mod I'd do' and 'I'd do it again'. I just didn't believe him, the inflection in his voice changed and he seemed to think a bit too much about it. From a first look Ironman needs you on the spring rating at the very least. $1500 and losing clearance for off-road touring.... doesn't seem smart. Currently I have a SUBIE Lift Oz 2/2.5" lift kit and raised 1" rear HD Pedders springs and it handles a lot of weight and the ride is till excellent. Hard to see the appeal in this kit as it presently is.

[@lukemoussa1298]

Hey Sean. There was some front end clearance lost when compared to the LP spacers. I was sponsored by Ironman but that doesn’t change my opinion. I figured out the springs were not designed for the 3.6 and have been sharing that. It’s still an excellent system and made a world of difference in handling. Take a look at the previous comments and replies in this thread. Thanks.

[@4XPEDITION]

No, he paid for it. Got a discount through TEAM 4X.

[@semihguven5653]

Hi, I already bought the suspension lift kit. Autorized dealer installed 1 month ago. At that period when I drive the car at off road, the front anti-roll bar gasket came off. How can we solve this problem. I couldnt drive the car. Thank you for your help

[@lukemoussa1298]

Sound like you mean the stabilizer bar bushing(s) came out?

[@4XPEDITION]

You are welcome.

[@MrJbarreda]

Who installed your Subaru lift ?

[@4XPEDITION]

That would be a question for Luke. I think he had a shop in Chandler Arizona install it.

[@MrJbarreda]

@@4XPEDITION can you ask him :)

[@MrJbarreda]

@@4XPEDITION and you didn’t do it yourself?, so I’m looking for someone who knows how on Subarus, I also have the 6 cy Outback, 2019 I live here in the Tucson area, Oro Valley... Thanks

[@jlpxtp8503]

It’s not hard to install, save yourself the money and just do it!

[@mykeydeeh82]

How does one feel about using both the suspension lift AND spacers?? Be greedy and have best of both worlds. Maybe? No?

[@lukemoussa1298]

Hi Mykey. Good question. I would not do that myself because I have read that combining these systems will put too much strain on the stock CV joints and other steering/suspension components. Companies such as ADF, LP, and Ironman have engineered these kits to work with the vehicle's stock components. Thanks.

[@wayneblazek5764]

I have a ReadyLift 2/1.5 in. spacer lift with Rallitec 0 rise springs on my 2019 Outback. It handles incredibly. I also have a Yakima Backswing with a Curt spare tire hitch mount. I put a 7.5 “ hitch riser to get everything up. $400 and 110 lbs with tire. Have Primitive Racing skid plates and rock rails too. 11” clearance on front skid plate, 10 3/4” on rear.

[@lukemoussa1298]

@@wayneblazek5764 That sounds like a great setup with plenty of clearance. Thanks for sharing!

[@4XPEDITION]

Thanks for reply, Luke.

[@blazewagner3974]

What sliders are those?

[@4XPEDITION]

LP Aventure

[@lukemoussa1298]

LP but check out what RalliTek has. I took my sliders off because there is no need for them with what I like to do.

[@richardburguillos3118]

Soooo I was looking at these before the video came here... I watched a few videos on the system. There install video and one other persons install video and review. It’s a bit misleading watching the install as you swear it’s a better “lift” kit. But now your video is inline with what I had seen by another person.... it seems it’s a bit soft, meaning, by the time you load up the Outback for an adventure, you lost any real lift benefits. You seem to gain comfort, but it’s not strong enough to maintain the lift or clearance you might be wanting to gain. Especially if you put a set of skid plates on and loose clearance because of those. If it first gives you clearance and then you load up your Outback and have to carry a spare on a swing hitch and you loose any gain from the lift.... I call that a soft suspension and sags with a load. Yes it’s more of a comfortable ride, but now I have to ask, can you combine it with the 2” LP lift to gain additional clearance. My guess is no... So why does IronMan not offer an option to strengthen... I don’t know.... the springs used or increase the shocks pressure or let you decided with easy adjustments when you want a softer shock vs holding more and keeping the lift. I’m rambling so I’ll stop now...

[@richardburguillos3118]

You can tell I’m still real interested in these IronMan units but and torn as to what I want to gain, comfort or clearance. I’m a bit of a child... I want both 😁

[@lukemoussa1298]

Hi Richard. Great observations, thank you. You are correct about it being a bit soft and that was a little disappointing to me as well. I have been told that on this iteration of the ATS kit, comfort, and performance (such as maneuverability) is what Ironman focused on. I think offering different spring rates for folks that will be loading their vehicles is needed and hopefully we will get to test that out as well. I still really enjoy how the vehicle handles and I would expect a system that blends comfort, performance, and clearance together in the future. Regarding adding the strut top hat spacers, I have found that is not recommended for safety reasons because it will stress suspension and steering components.

[@lukemoussa1298]

@@richardburguillos3118 I don't blame you! The nice thing is that Ironman is very interested in getting feedback and I agree with what you suggest.

[@4XPEDITION]

Thanks for responding, Luke.

[@richardburguillos3118]

@@lukemoussa1298 I believe they now offer a couple of options and one has a stiffer or stronger suspension lift that doesn’t sag as much when loaded. I believe you can even decide on a different set for front and rear.

[@jcoats5529]

Great gas mileage? I don't think so

[@Erelyes]

Compare to anything else that has a 4WD system and this much ground clearance from stock, let alone with a lift. The only thing I can think of that's more capable and gets better mileage is a Suzuki Jimny, and good luck fitting anything in the back of that for your family weekend away.

[@4XPEDITION]

Considering the aftermarket upgrades and tire selection, it is.

[@Memetologist]

Would you recommend the Spec-C ironman with a trail swing?

[@4XPEDITION]

Not sure. I haven't reviewed that product or installed it.

[@Memetologist]

@@4XPEDITION it's rated 660LB+. But of course the weight is "behind" the stock car, so it may be "heavier" on the suspension ... if that makes any sense.

[@lukemoussa1298]

Depends if you are going to keep it on and/or have consistent weight in the back. You may be better off with the light load and .50 inch spacers on top so that the ride isn’t so harsh.