5 Bad Ideas That Are Ruining Your Drumming

[@pickinstone]

All of these bad ideas apply to all other instruments as well. I'm getting sick of hearing "just feel it" when I ask questions about rhythm and pulse. I totally understand the importance of listening, but there are so many books on harmony out there--and so many books on scales. For "non-drummers," there is little in the way of rhythm. How do you play jazz and not intentionally study rhythm? That's why I want the jazz paradigm to flip--we spend too much time on harmony at the total expense of rhythm. If harmony, melody, and rhythm are "the three pillars of music," then why is rhythm so often ignored? Because it's harder to talk about? Not for drummers...

[@TylerHNothing]

Interesting. Probably because rhythm is just notes in time, and it’s easy enough to know what notes sound good together, but orchestrating those notes in time requires physical ability and to make it interesting requires being artistic and creative, so it’s just easy to ignore the rhythm aspect and think about what notes sound good together

[@pickinstone]

@@TylerHNothing I always frame my argument as follows... Most jazz programs at the college level require courses in jazz harmony and rudimentary jazz piano--for all musicians, drummers included. Find me a program that requires rudimentary drums or percussion. Rhythm is usually treated as an after thought--random classes on clapping rhythms. I play guitar, and I've sought out all the greats for lessons. Most on my instrument, but some on others--including a lesson with Quincy Davis several years ago. I had to seek out studies about rhythm on my own, because rhythm isn't part of the musical diet if you don't play drums--how asinine does that sound? There is a real problem in jazz education when we are reluctant to give rhythm its due. If we don't have the vocabulary to talk about the depth of rhythm for ALL musicians, then we have to MAKE that vocabulary. Bottom line is EVERYONE needs to be aware of rhythm, because rhythm is actually what makes the notes SPEAK. Great double time is as much note choice as it is rhythmic. Actually, in relation to Nate Dogg's video here, one could argue that all musicians require chops to satisfy the RHYTMIC complexity and diversity that music demands. Playing fast ain't shit if you're not in the pocket--and if you always play eighth notes, then you're playing lacks RHYTMIC variety. Most music operates IN TIME, so it behooves us to understand how to subdivide and negotiate time. Instead, many of us "non-drummers" fixate on scales trying to capture that holy grail of music making :( Unfortunately, many instrumentalists think that playing rhythmic somehow means playing basic. There's a lot of misconception with rhythmic study across instruments, and THAT'S why we need drummers to change the jazz pedagogy paradigm. Jazz without rhythm ain't jazz. Music without rhythm ain't music, dig?

[@joshuaireland5510]

​@@pickinstonejust have to say what an awesome comment. You are absolutely correct. I'd even argue rhythm is THE MOST important "pillar"

[@pickinstone]

@@cemguvener9124 You'd be surprised how much depth there is to rhythm. Those that say rhythm is easy might just have a very basic conception of rhythm themselves...and it shows in their playing. If you ever feel like your playing isn't happening, the culprit 90% of the time is poor rhythm--no matter your instrument. The audience at a gig will more likely notice sloppy rhythm over missed notes as well. If rhythm is so "easy to teach", then why do so many amateur musicians know a bunch of theory and have crap rhythm? I see that especially in the amateur jazz guitar community ;(

[@pickinstone]

@@cemguvener9124 How do you know? I have a background in education myself--that's my day job. How do you know? Is your knowledge just based on what we've established as status quo--that we deem a pedagogy right simply because it's established by repetition? There's a lot of outdated pedagogy that is finally on its way out, but those concepts were once paraded as fact. Is it based on your experience as a student, as a teacher, as a performer? There's been a lot of good changes in higher ed recently, changes that place student voice and agency FIRST. It's about time that the tides changed for music as well. We require jazz piano because we make an assumption that harmony is important for every musician. We make percussion an elective because we educators say that rhythm is NOT important. It's systematic--and not based on the musicianship needs of our students. Jazz education--especially--would benefit from a curriculum that centered rhythm as a pillar instead of an afterthought. Pillar means that rhythm is embedded in everything that we study--rhythm serves as the anchor, not the afterthought. Otherwise, we risk divorcing music from rhythm. Even free jazz is "time no changes." 99% of music is dependent on rhythm, so why do we teach rhythm as a drummers club? There's hegemonic implications of the imbalance, but the internet is a great place to get called out for being too "woke" ;) Rhythm is essential to the rhetorical relationship with the audience. Without a strong grasp of rhythm, we become musicians who play for musicians... and not musicians who play for an audience. Even the bebop masters of yesteryear knew that the audience needs to dance--even if that dance was at their seats. We lose the dance, we lose music itself.

[@WyattLite-n-inn]

Your drumming as well as your presentation skills keep growing .. You ask the right questions and more often than not give the right answers . No other drum channel like this one

[@noelteter3398]

Great stuff, Nate. It's so easy as a drummer to fall into the trap of "all or nothing" thinking when it comes to that kind of advice. Context is huge and that's what this video is all about.

[@gcorriveau6864]

I always enjoy your take on drumming. Thanks for sharing all this.

[@joaquinlluis]

GREEEEAT VIDEO, I love your approach on teaching stuff and really exploding on people thinking deeper instead of just accepting whatever thing other people might tell them. As you said, sometimes things get so subjective that without the right analysis every advice seems true, its always better to learn things understanding what you are doing instead of just following a recipe without thinking.

[@jeffmwoods]

you are a wonderfully unique fella Nate...you continually amuse, entertain and impress me. You occupy an important frequency range in the drumming realm...keep doing your thing. great, great videos.

[@CaptainBollox]

Thanks Nate. Always informative always entertaining. I've been playing for 40 years on and off and you have given me a lot of inspiration in the last few years to up my game. I now get a lot more gigs with my band. I think it's because we now sound in sync due to me being in sync with myself after your online course. Keep up the great work man. Interview more female drummers by the way.

[@AndriiHoncharov-g1f]

Your videos are pure gold! This one gave me a new perspective on a things that I used to believe in literal way. Especially for a slow playing. I've always felt that sometimes just noodling something fast is not the worst way of practicing and isn't a crime although everyone convince it is lol. Such underrated tool for discovering new areas

[@Coastfog]

Haha, the random muting of cymbals you didn't play at the end...I have the same habit.

[@BrianH020]

I got one for you, Nate. I don't know if it's a truism, proverb, or idea but here it is: "There's a fine line between playing confident and playing cocky.* Eric Moore, without a doubt, is extremely confident in what he plays, when he plays it, and the ideas he's going for. But I wouldn't call him cocky. Some up and coming drummers when they discover that they have the ability to pull off certain chops, if you will, can become really cocky when they are in a show-off type of mode. But I would submit to you, for the most part, all the great drummers we love who embody all of the greatest bits - groove, technical ability, seemingly endless reservoirs of ideas - Are extremely confident in what they do, yet don't let their personal ego dictate what they play. To give one example, possibly the greatest living drummer, Vinnie, embodies all of this. And it's evident across all the styles of music he has played throughout his career. I know others will postulate that there are other drummers with even greater technical facility, but I really don't think there is any one drummer who captures it all like Vinnie does. He can groove his behind off, and the ideas he comes up with, backed by the confidence he can pull them off, are breathtaking and inspiring... 👍😗

[@8020drummer]

Yea good points

[@teachingbeats]

I was just at a very small music fest in Wi over the weekend. I was away from the stage but within beaing able to hear it...in a minute I was walking back. A young guy got up, played a set, almost no fills...And(!) One of the best drummers I have heard in many years...groove for days, relaxed...he was self taught playing for only 5yrs. No "chops" all music. Sooo refreshing, it was just simply great playing. Overall, the biggest impression I felt was that he Listened and only played to the music, and...I Wanted to listen to him.

[@AlanKey86]

I think "just feel it" is short-hand for "I am not conscious of/able to articulate/patient enough to explain how I want this to sound" I play percussion with an awesome flamenco guitarist and he keeps telling me my Tango rhythm is wrong and I honestly don't know what it is! There's also a language barrier as he's not a native English speaker :D But we do love playing together and I hold on to hope that one day I'll just magically figure out the subtle art of the Tango rhythm!

[@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777]

IMO if you tak anything from this great presentation is @7:00 - encapsulates a foundation of what Drums represent . to me , in the full form and expression - WITH OTHERS IN A BAND MAKING MUSIC. "FOR THE SONG".

[@STIXAHOY]

I my humble opinion..... besides practicing......the best thing you can do to elevate your drumming is to learn another musical instrument.......like the piano.......or the guitar

[@GordonBagshaw-GBEnglishClass]

lol.. I hope we did a thing. lol.. love it. haven't seen your content in awhile, my bad, but this was a good one to come back to. Well done 80/20,

[@knuthagedorn]

Was that a quote from SVU at the end?

[@armsoo]

1:54 is my drum teacher after explaining some concept for 100th time and I still get it wrong

[@infinitesimotel]

Great video!

[@Doublebasist]

Great video 80/20. On my way to work I was thinking about being inspired by things in all the things we do in life and your "competition is always bad" is conected to that i think. I would argue that there is ONLY competition in everything we do. Hear me out. I have an artist friend for whom I do framing and he paints landscapes. His competition is nature itself. He is inspired to join in to compete with the amazing things nature created, it's a snake eating its own tail. I saw an interesting concert the other week which inspired me to create a little piece of music. How could I compete with this concept they produced. It's all competition just like it's all inspired or an extension of. This could make a good subject for a video. What do you think Nate? Love from France.

[@allanmalloy8266]

If you tell a metal guy "You need more dynamics" be ready to get a strip torn off your back, I personally get really tired of hearing that from drummers of any other genre. What works in Jazz, rock or funk isn't necessarily going to work in metal.

[@onesyphorus]

taking in too much instructions can end up disrupting your workflow and overall journey in fulfilling your goals

[@moneybot646]

Maybe I’m dumb or ignorant I did the newsletter I’m still trying to figure out how to send off a video to be rated by Nate himself

[@8020drummer]

Did I make a promise that I'd personally review people's videos just for joining the mailing list? Shoot me an email at [e-mail] and make sure to specify that you're the commenter guy

[@elliottcovert3796]

One piece of advice is universally true without exception: if you’ve got thinning hair or are balding, you should cut your hair really short instead of growing it out long. The 80/20 guy has obeyed this principle.

[@onesyphorus]

oh its nathan craftsman aka 40/10 cymballer my favourite youtuber

[@FloydBassett-ys2mu]

I get told the same thing by every single drummer that I talk to. They always tell me to do something different from what I’m doing and do the thing that they think is right/best. 😂

[@efafe4972]

if you've ever looked at drumming reddit pretty much everything here is parroted over and over esp the you shouldn't ever play it fast if you can't play it slow thing. IMO understanding how it should feel at tempo is just as important as learning the pattern in detail.

[@alexmanojmathews]

Nate the 80/20 drummer, Rob 'Beatdown' Brown and Brandon Khoo - keep it real

[@jonashellborg8320]

Here’s another one : “don’t trust what you saw on the internet”. True, false or context based?

[@8020drummer]

lol I had a few back and forths on Instagram after somebody posted that like it was an absolute. Don't trust anything you hear anywhere without a convincing argument and/or evidence (maybe with the exception of scientists with tons of studies but probably not the most sensationalist headlines about those studies).

[@captainkiwi77]

The most obviously context based statement. I gotta ask though; What absolutes do you find that are actually true all the way through and not context dependent” Maybe “don’t stick forks in electric sockets” or something to that stupid effect, but I can’t think of any musical ones I’d stick by

[@8020drummer]

@@captainkiwi77 almost everything is either context dependent or comes with qualifiers. Something like "I'd never bet against somebody who practices an hour a day for ten years" might be closer to an absolute.

[@MonacoRocha]

I of the ideas is watching your Vids..!!! ??? LOL!! Just Kidding Bro.. Great Stuff!!

[@weatherking11]

The “chopping” you always refer to just isn’t pleasant sounding. Just hitting random drums no motifical element at all.

[@Six3rdy]

Ehhh, I'd say that chops have a role. Ya just gotta put em in the right spot. Playing fast has a LOT of energy behind it, and throwing a fill in the middle of your grooving can add an element of "tension" that can make the music more interesting, or even let other folks (including the musicians) know what's coming next. Imo, chops are like seasoning; do it too much and you might kill the chicken (which is your groove and the feel of the song), but if you apply the right amount people will FIGHT over your chicken! 🤣🤣🤣 Granted, imo it's also better to do too little fills and chops than too much. But still. 🤷🏾‍♂️ Lemme know what you think about this take! 😁👍

[@weatherking11]

@@Six3rdy no I get that but playing random Toms and kick and snare combos just doesn’t sound good to me. Playing tasty fills and playing a set up for a chorus or solo I agree sounds great just not the random 16th note grid salad

[@Six3rdy]

@@weatherking11 Oh, ok. I feel it. Frankly, I've stepped away from drums for awhile now. I branched out into guitar and bass, and I plan to come back to drums. I used to do drums for church, and I still got the skill thankfully, but I never got to Eric Moore chop level, and I wanna shoot for something like that. I'll have to get back to you when I get to that point. Lol. I'll be able to give an accurate assessment on the 16th note salads. 🤣🤣🤣

[@bensinger6637]

Your titles are crazy

[@sterlingpratt4901]

The last line lol

[@harrycrab8725]

Yeah, but for 90% of the regular jobbing gigs, 99% of the drummers need to work on relaxed time, simplifying, trying to feel and thereby help establish the appropriate groove for that song, and play half the number of fills they want to play, all of which should be short, stylistically appropriate fills for the song. In regular casuals type gigs, there is almost zero call for 32nd note chopping outside a solo, unless you can *really* slip them in to embellish an established groove (w/o breaking the groove). So, no advice is good for everyone all the time, but for 99% …

[@ultradrums]

I have a condition called drumitsm 😃🥁❤

[@webstercat]

Chops are for the most part ego driven. Look how fast I play, see how much independents I have. All drummers would be better musicians if they learned a second instrument.

[@8020drummer]

1) nope, 2) maybe

[@morganneher8643]

It’s crazy, the stuff you are covering lately is exactly the stuff on my mind 🫡 I wish I hadn’t listened to SO much advice about what drumming was and wasn’t and just played and figured it out, I am naive and susceptible to taking people’s words as gospel 🤦 * 80/20 is a great name (you said “for better or worse”) haters either don’t know the principal or don’t see the obvious issue of going by Nate Smith lol

[@charliescourbys1340]

I think it’s time to go full Mohawk! Coming from a guy preciously holding onto his long hair.

[@aavila1206]

First!