5 Easy Ways To Fix The Brotherhood Of Steel In Fallout 4

[@Theegreygaming]

just as a bit of context on the George Washington comments... sheesh. I must have really struck a soft spot. 1. yes Washington served in the 7 years war... in fact he sort of started it. 2. he served in a provincial corps, where neither he, nor his men ever received formal military training. in fact most of his men were illiterate peasants who only served 1 year contracts so training would have been an almost fruitless endeavor. 3. He never held rank in the British Military. 4. He served on a single campaign, offering a valuable um... a few weeks of combat experience. 5. He was appointed commander in chief of the continental army, not because of his reputation as a soldier, but because he showed up to meetings dressed as a soldier. the issue here is not whether he never experienced combat, but whether he was ever actually trained as a soldier, served in an actual military force, and had sufficient experience leading troops, which the answer is unequivocally no.

[@chriscormac231]

dress for the job you aim for, not the job you have

[@Nomad-rc6so]

This... isn't common knowledge? There were very little actual military officers and soldiers that fought in the Revolutionary War, and a lot of those were French.

[@aidanacebo9529]

Washington served for years in a military capacity BEFORE the revolution, holding multiple officer ranks (following the British Army ranking system of the period) including a commission as a lieutenant colonel of the Virginia Militia, which was the closest thing to a standing army belonging to the colonies at the time. it wasn't a volunteer organization, it was compulsory for every free man to serve in some capacity. it was equivalent to the draft. they were also drilled to British Army standards. he wasn't some buck-toothed hick who thought he'd join the army one day, he was a commissioned officer of a standing army comprised of all free men of the commonwealth of Virginia. he saw combat on multiple occasions and served with distinction. this wasn't a mottled assortment of farmers wearing rags and armed with whatever squirrel guns they could find, they were a uniformed, well regular fighting force armed with either French Charleville muskets or English tower flintlock muskets, both of which were the standard armaments of their respective national armies. they had the same guns. the same training. the same force organization. they may not have been as numerous, but they were as effective as a fighting force against a comparable foe. I have a master's degree in military history, and I've written and co-written several books on the firearms, tactics, and uniforms of the period.

[@Theegreygaming]

@@aidanacebo9529 I never said he was bucktoothed hick... you have to have teeth for that (joke that I know is a common misconception). Washington was a well educated man, I never said he wasn't. but correct me if I am wrong but officers of the day typically either purchased their commissions and then spent years of what we today would call on-the-job training as they worked up the ranks, or they would have spent most of their childhoods in military schools, neither of which seems to apply to the career path Washington took. I was also under the impression that compulsory service in the virginia regiment was only enacted after the start of the war, and prior to that point, no standard had been applied to the drills that the regiment underwent. I have no doubt that they were uniformed and issued weapons, and never stated that they weren't. and finally if Washington was as versed in training, drilling and leading troops as any british unit (I know not your words, but some others in the comments have suggested as much), then why is so much emphasis placed on the improvements in Washington's continentals after the Baron Von Steubon trained them? I honestly am not trying to be obstinate on this matter, and I enjoy learning about military history so your credentials suggest you probably know a fair bit more than I do, so please feel free to educate me and correct any of these misconceptions I may have shared.

[@highlordlaughterofcanada8685]

He couldn't serve in the British Army since Britain isn't real. :)

[@windwalker5765]

An interesting thing that could be done with Ingram in an Institute playthrough is offer her synth limb transplants. Which also shows a way a reformed Institute could be a boon to the wasteland.

[@SeanCrosser]

Yeah they really wanna make it an either/or situation when the ideal way forward is that they work with each other. Maxson needs a slap of reality to teach him that not all problems can be solved with armoured infantry, and Father needs to be taught that some things can be solved by armoured infantry (namely, his stupid existence as a leader)

[@windwalker5765]

@@SeanCrosserThe interesting thing is that the Institute is actually in agreement with the Brotherhood on synths: they don't want them to have free will. But they do want to keep researching advanced science and tech to an extent the Brotherhood probably won't accept (well, Elder Lyons' BoS would).

[@mouseblackcat5263]

That would require Bethes-Tec to have some actual CREATIVITY. 😮

[@bagser1]

Or it could have been used as an understandable motivation for Ingram to become a traitor.

[@nswkfbdbanwnsjja3367]

​@@windwalker5765Lyons wouldnt do that, the thing that separates him from the original Brotherhood ways is helping outsiders not allowing to develop the technology

[@EmporerDragon]

Thinking on things, they could've had a really good in-game explanation why the BoS are super anti-synth: Imagine that instead of having Sarah Lyons die to a random encounter in the wasteland, she instead dies from a botched Institute attempt to replace her with a Synth. Something like that would really up the hostility between the two factions.

[@Theegreygaming]

...and given maxson's attachment to Sara Lyons, it would explain his particular hatred toward them since they took someone who was dear to him away... dang that's actually a really good suggestion.

[@theenigmaticst7572]

Or... it was a faction within the BoS who didn't appreciate Elder Lyons' philosophy or his attempts to win hearts and minds in the Capital Wasteland. So when he died and Sara took over, they decided to arrange an accident, and found a perfect enemy - one that was far enough away in the Commonwealth, but present and known (after the Chief of Security in Rivet City is exposed as a Synth) to be a threat. So Sara dies, and the Institute is ostensibly found to be the aggressor. (Who knows how, maybe some particular damaged synth parts lying around where she died?) And Maxxon doesn't forget the pain - and so has an excessive hatred for the Institute, but the Brotherhood faction who did that manage to achieve their aims of diverting Maxxon from following Lyons' philosophy - and spurs the ultimate (re-)joining together of the Brotherhood and the Outcasts.

[@droidmaker7932]

@@theenigmaticst7572nah, too convoluted and contrived. But after a review of Broken Steel points out the brotherhood starting to walk that path when they’re hunting the remnants of the East Enclave.

[@scorpionriden2301]

The thing about maxson he never experienced what it is like to be a child always with and around adult soldiers. All he heard and spoon fed was he is the one and only true leader. And one more overlooked factor the current maxson is a result of Owen lyons. If remember correctly there is a note from lyons fearing that maxson is gonna become like the ruthless paladin owen once was.

[@mazz9487]

A shame, really, because he was a very polite boy in Fallout 3. Gave me directions to where I needed to go and everything.

[@christophercorrell4525]

All three of the BoS members at the Police Station (Haylen, Rhys, and Danse) should have been available as companions, even if just temporary for the duration of a radiant quest. They could provide commentary on how the Sole Survivor is completing the mission. Haylen would be tied to the haptic drives, Rhys to clearing out a location, and Danse just stays how he is. Since the first two always stay tied to the Police Station, that would make sense. I'd also love to see Rhys get promoted so that he is in charge of the Police Station after Danse returns to the Prydwyn. Give him a second set of quests to accumulate the pieces of his old power armor which are now scattered around the commonwealth, or replacement pieces.

[@jlaakso1706]

Watching this video made me think how great a companion Paladin Brandis would have made. After convincing him to rejoin the Brotherhood, he could have been uneasy on the Prydwen and wanted to join you. Over a series of adventures he could have a character arc of regaining his confidence and seeing his usefulness again. Or possibly joining you at his now unlocked bunker, and asking about rejoining the BoS after regaining his confidence, having what you say to him has him rejoin or not. I think he could have had a great storyline.

[@silverbloodborne9495]

And maybe go find the corpses of there fallen from there partol . Bring the soilders home and have him maybe stop being a asshole

[@tarkov_6]

Fact that the BoS felt more like an invasion force is why i enjoyed the minutemen struggle against them

[@G1ingy]

Ironically that's actually why I joined the Brotherhood in one of my playthroughs lol

[@creatorsfreedom6734]

@sneedfeedandseed2410 wow what good guy's hurr hurrrr

[@thebigdork8030]

@sneedfeedandseed2410 Really can't blame em, you come to Bawston, you start telling people what to do, they're gonna smack ya back. Like even if the minutemen and brotherhood were best buds while the institute are around, there's no guarantee they'll stay friends, especially when the BoS needs to root out "synths".

[@Elyseon]

​@@thebigdork8030Especially with those.power armored thugs going around extorting people for food.

[@derkylos]

@@thebigdork8030 Covenant demonstrates that there's no way to prove someone is a synth without killing them. So the Brotherhood's goal is failed before they even begin.

[@Vaultboy-ke2jj]

Regarding Kells issuing orders, don’t forget that although he’s a part of the BOS he’s still Maxson’s deputy. Air Marshal Tedder was Eisenhower’s deputy in WW2 and gave orders to ground and naval forces

[@MassiveMaleMonkey]

yeah but the brotherhood function differently iirc

[@samueltitone5683]

I feel like the biggest problem with the BoS is that Maxon is a screaming lunatic. Every time I consider a Brotherhood playthrough, I get to the Prydwen and remember, “oh yeah. Maxon is crazy.”

[@leonrussell9607]

Maxson is completely right

[@thetaai8262]

​@@leonrussell9607about what? murdering sentient machines?

[@leonrussell9607]

@@thetaai8262 yes, sentient machines designed to infiltrate human settlements and act as sleeper agents for the institute Maxson is right

[@ishiddddd4783]

​@@leonrussell9607 if he was well writen sure

[@Jpeg.g]

@@leonrussell9607the issue is that he not only kills the spys, but the innocent slaves as well. The synths were designed to do the institute’s bidding, and most synths are slaves who were inhumanely given sentience when a simple protectron would do the same thing.

[@thorsforge2905]

In reference to the Squires being on the Prydwn did you forget that Danse "complains" about it and mentions they are there because Maxon thinks they need front line training. So, the whole change of chain of command with Danse being subordinate to Kells is Maxon's doing. It is also Maxon's desire for the Squires to receive the training, which is simply the orders being followed by Kells. Ultimately the enter problems with the Brotherhood of Steel falls firmly on the fact that an untrained boy was given command and his flawed understanding of ideals and how to implement them causes the near entirety of the issues with the Brotherhood of Steel. The biggest thing that was missing from the game was the ability of the player as the only Sentinel to be able to challenge Maxon's rule over the BoS much like you can head canon that the institute can be steered in a better direction once the player is the Director and removes the threats of the zealots of the Railroad and BoS.

[@ultimatestuff7111]

The whole issue with your comment is that you imply maxson has doomed the eats coast bos, which is bullshit because we all know a railroad or institute ending cannot be canon, and Bethesda would have a very hard time explaining how the bos dying to artillery guns is canon, and maxson, while flawed and authoritarian, is a very capable leader, he reunited the east coast bos, re established contact with lost hills, beat a deathclaw at thirteen although that may be false but he must have fought something decently strong like a least a yao guai to get a scar that big, he takes physical and mental health very seriously among his soldiers, and he is a good speaker all though now he kind of just sounds like a scaled down version of hitler, that doesn’t make stupid mistakes in the eye of genocide. Killing danse was smart as he knows way too much and if the institute finds him they can access his memories, and the case with Virgil is simple confusion, they don’t see him as mutant rogue scientist, they saw him as institute fev researcher which sounds dangerous

[@Zarlos01]

@ultimatestuff7111 I belive that the cannon ending will be the Minuteman with BoS and RR alive. This way Bethesda can salvage the east coast BoS, minimalize the genocide and let the possibility to use the RR with scaped synths on to future. The BoS are almost more recognizably than the vault-boy, so I doubt that they will damage it more, and the MM, the "faction the players 'build up'", probably is the Bethesda's favorite on FO4. And the RR will be forgot until some dev make a easter egg or quest involving them.

[@sebastjanjapelj9393]

Here is an Idea had for a while, that is very similar to your points. The quest "To carry a legacy" would give the player a job to help Maxon with his pressures of being the youngest elder by connecting with the player and outside of the brotherhood. We would learn that he was groomed to be the Elder by the Veterans. But the biggest point of the quest would be is that of new quest paths. Like establishing a beneficial relationship with the Minuteman, a more peaceful approach to the railroad, and an honorable discharge of Paladin Danse. Over all the purpose of the quest would be to flesh out the "Emporer of the Brotherhood" and show his human side. The other quest just came to my mind while watching this video, so they aren't as fleshed out as Maxons. For Ingram we would have: "Step by Step" ->Help her find the schematic, and materials and build her new prosthetics "The Phantom pain" ->Help her slowly adjust to her new limbs Brandis: "Shell Shock"->Help a Veteran with his inner struggles. "The Scarred and the Shiny"->Prepare the volunteers for combat with Brandis Haylen: "A woman of the People"->Assist in her day-to-day tasks "...Those who give reason for hope"->Haylen became the replacement instructor for the squires. Help her with the job

[@crysisrevelation6132]

You have clearly put more thought and effort into this than Bethesda/Todd ever could. And for that, I salute you. 🫡

[@thereallochnessmonster9954]

13:10 Small correction, George Washington did actually have some military experience serving as a Lieutenant Colonel for the militia in the French Indian War, often having to march with the regular army. He participated in a few battles too such as the end of the ill-fated Braddock expedition. You are 100% right on the second count, he did not have a good win:loss ratio at all.

[@Theegreygaming]

that's typically the point I argue, that he was a militia commander who started and ended his career as a LT COL, and served on a single campaign where the troops under his command were responsible for starting the 7 years war, and the campaign went very badly. he never received a formal military education, and though he was mentored by a military man in his youth, he was educated as a surveyor, not a line officer. that's typically what I mean by "no real military experience".

[@connoredward354]

@@Theegreygaminghe started the 7 years war during his time with the British military. He definitely had military experience, even though it was pretty terrible

[@Wyatt-sh4qz]

​@@connoredward354tbf, everyone in his time stood in lines, waiting to be shot, so they didn't sound all to smart in that time. Meaning that, GW did good for a colonial redneck lmao

[@samueleveleigh2767]

Personally i would add in at least some justification for this iteration of the brotherhood being xenophobic to the point of being very similar to the enclave. like i seriously believed that there was going to be a twist that the enclave had done a hydra and infiltrated the brotherhood we see in the commonwealth. but no. we just get the hand wave of "muties are evil because i say so" and the thing is, this is a pretty easy fix since its just back story. lets say maxon didnt fight a deathclaw and win, when the brotherhood were excavating more of the citadel he got trapped in a section full of feral ghouls and fought them off for days until he was rescued. this would give him a very good reason for hating any mutation, because he would have almost outright died from them and had to adopt a mindset of not even seeing them as having a right to live in order for himself to survive. you could also have a decent reason for them hating synths in something similar to diamond city going on. we could have it so that sarah lyons was a synth infiltrator and was discovered after a radiation leak killed her team near instantly but she was left untouched, or that people got suspicious that with no moisturizer available she still didnt age... again this would explain maxon's hatred toward synths because of his pre established crush on her, so when it is revealed that she was a synth it would have warped young maxons mind into seeing the institute both attacking his family, attacking him and stealing his unrequited love. im not saying every atrocity needs a tragic backstory in order to wave the war crime trials but *some* backstory is still needed

[@reygunz3059]

Maybe a tragic backstory for Maxson would have helped since he was under Lyons' tutelage, but isn't the viewpoint that technology left unchecked causes dystopia a good enough reason for the BOS to be xenophobic? Ok, maybe its not enough in itself, but add in some fear about humanity going extinct and the fact that a nuclear arsenal caused the state of the Fallout universe, I don't think that their xenophobia is far fetched.

[@nswkfbdbanwnsjja3367]

Thats some fire right there ngl

[@derkurier2710]

i may be wrong but didn't Enclave deserters (Common Footsoliders) join the BOS after they collapse

[@chriswilson320]

I mean, last I checked fallout 3 people were pretty xenophobic already. Almost all ghouls lived in underworld in the crossfire between the brotherhood and super mutants. Hell even the commonwealth ghouls are not treated well. They got kicked out of diamond city with little protest from everyone else and only really have the slog and goodneighbor. I would also say they are much less xeonophobic than the enclave, especially from fallout 2 and under Eden. They still openly recruit from the wastes which is still from the norm of the classic brotherhood.

[@Sorain1]

@FEVRobert Wouldn't be hard to say that she got replaced at some point, the Institute seems to have far too much reach to be truly plausible already, thus it's not that big a reach.

[@AshCreeper]

These videos are slowly starting to inspire me to, just for fun, try to rewrite the Fallout 4 storyline.

[@Potato_wizoon]

Same!!!

[@gg_sam7847]

Should get a bunch of people with the same feeling (me too haha) and get them to work together and actually do a rewrite together, I'm sure it's already been done before anyway

[@thejunktownsheriffkilliand4800]

Just write a completely new game then. Disregard all the Fallout 4 main plot points. Its garbage.

[@gg_sam7847]

@@thejunktownsheriffkilliand4800 well I see someone clearly has never been passionate about anything

[@bog2543]

fixing issues with plots/narrative of video games will probably be my favorite part about playing video games at some point

[@benstajdl3616]

I remember seeing something about how there was a scrapped quest with the BHOS that when Maxson orders you to kill Danes that you could actually challenge Maxson and become the commander of The Commonwealth’s BHOS chapter. That would’ve been a great quest to keep

[@capadociaash8003]

Feels weird to me, the brotherhood shouldn’t run on Klingon promotion

[@bluegem8582]

Feel like Bethesda scrapped that quest because they didn't wanna write and program 3 different variations of the BoS quests depending on whether Max, you, or Danse (depending on whether that was part of the plan or another thing added by mod that reimplements it)

[@manilajohn0182]

Great video! I truly enjoyed it. Lyons had it all over Maxson. I found the disparaging comments by Brotherhood members about Lyons to be just astonishing. It's as though the majority of them were clueless that the Brotherhood lost out big time when Lyons died. Anyway, many thanks for the video!

[@matthewcrooks29]

That's because a good portion of the bos members in Fallout 4 were part of the outcast group and Lyons was a controversial elder where Maxon is well respected by the whole the bos group

[@manilajohn0182]

@robertothesupermutant830 I could not agree more. Lyons could have turned them around if he'd had the opportunity. Such is life...

[@hellonearthiii4671]

Do keep in mind that the Brotherhood in the Capital Wasteland wasn't in a good spot when Lyons was running things. Was he a good and compassionate leader? Yes. But he was the reason the Outcasts branched off from their chapter. He was fighting two wars with the Enclave and the Super Mutant threat as well as protecting the innocent wastelanders. As noble as he was, it was foolish for him to try and do everything they couldn't do at the same time. It was thanks to Maxson that their Brotherhood chapter was able to come to power and a force to be reckoned with. He also managed to bring the Outcasts back into their fold, further strengthening their chapter. Both Elders have their pros and cons. Maxson could be more conpassionate and lenient when it comes to Synths that aren't the enemy. Lyons could have been smarter with the way he focused his soldiers and goals, all while helping the Wasteland

[@hanzzel6086]

​@@hellonearthiii4671You can't blame Lyons for the war with the Enclave, as the Enclave made it very clear from the get go that they wanted to destroy the BB. So it's not like there was only choice in fighting them.

[@jlaakso1706]

One thing about the military is they like their propaganda machine. You can't the lower ranks believing Lyon's actions going against the core mission were acceptable.

[@AJadedLizard]

Honestly I think the biggest issue with Fallout 4 is the same exact issue I have with the secondary story in Skyrim: Bethesda really didn't like the idea of player agency or nuance. The idea behind Fallout 4 with the variability of New Vegas could be a fantastic game.

[@brothers_of_nod]

I think I remember that the Prydwen is run on a nuclear reactor from an aircraft carrier, I really didn't like that the brotherhood blew up the institute, they were pretty much the only faction that had the option, the minutemen certainly had to as they couldn't hold it, but the BoS could have taken it for themselves, they traditionally love bunkers. Also I think that the brotherhood does incorporate both Lyons and the West Coast ideals, allowing outsides in with more ease while keeping to the tradition and mission. Likewise as we see with Ryes the brotherhood does hunt down ferals, mutants, other abominations to cleanse the commonwealth, just as Lyons hunted super mutants so they do keep a balance.

[@WhiteIkiryo-yt2it]

I am pretty sure you are right. I think it is eluded somewhere that they basically jacked the reactor from Rivet City but I don't remember where I saw it.

[@brothers_of_nod]

@@WhiteIkiryo-yt2it a terminal in the airship says that it was taken from an aircraft carrier, while this could have been any aircraft carrier, the only one that we know of is Rivet City

[@NavieNavira]

Also the Ghouls in the Underground of FO3 said that the BoS under Lyons shot them on sight. So that's a tradition of Lyon's BoS

[@bacd-nn2lg]

I consider Brotherhood of Steel the best develop faction in Fallout 4 base game, since there are quests that can give you pretty unique rewards, and you will get different paint jobs for T-60 as you rise in ranks. Another big positive for me is that this function allows you to have entire run without using any settlements (you will just use Boston airport workshop to build teleporter, and some Liberty Prime parts). Still this faction has some major problem like giving you infinite random quests that are not satisfying.

[@jcohasset23]

I think one of the biggest problems in Fallout 4 is it isn't interested in giving the Commonwealth benefits or consequences of the ending they choose so it comes down to which does the player want to pursue for their benefit. Destroying the Institute (especially as the Minutemen or Railroad) destroys a wealth of technology that could be useful in the Commonwealth and leaves a massive radioactive crater in Cambridge. The BoS wants to destroy the Railroad because of their opposing viewpoints even though the Railroad was the only organization fighting the Institute until the BoS arrives. The Institute has been actively engaging in destabilizing the Commonwealth for decades with the creation of super mutants, replacement synths, and the destruction of the Commonwealth Provisional Government and the player can never call them out on it (though credit is due that with the Institute ending and high affinity with Piper they can make some improvements in relations). I'll agree with Grey that the BoS is probably the best faction to stop the Institute but they have no interest in improving things for the Commonwealth as a whole afterwards. Without a strong Minutemen faction to counter them (and risking conflict there) the BoS is likely to also destabilize the Commonwealth even further and attempt to establish martial law over the area with poor relations leading to conflict between the BoS and Goodneighbor.

[@usarmysniper682006]

I think there may be another settlement that needs your help...

[@mouseblackcat5263]

My problem is the Fo4 BoS are just Raiders that gutted Rivet City in order to build/repair the Prydwin.

[@Idazmi7]

@@jcohasset23 _"I'll agree with Grey that the BoS is probably the best faction to stop the Institute but they have no interest in improving things for the Commonwealth as a whole afterwards."_ That is actually *not* true. after the Institute is destroyed, the Brotherhood remains in order to stabilize the region against local threats like raiders and mutants. even Goodneighbor comes around to respect the Brotherhood's efforts. And no, I'm not trying to exonerate Bethesda's terrible writing.

[@xdclancer8847]

@@mouseblackcat5263none of that is canon! Absolutely no proof the reactor came from rivet city, but even if it did. 1: most aircraft carriers have 2 reactors 2:a nuclear reactor would be overkill for rivet city when generators would work 3:rivet city may not even be a settlement anymore as there are bunch better places to live with super mutants gone 3 they could have traded for it! 4 it could be from a completely different aircraft carrier

[@danieldragotti2608]

Like most of f4 the bos feels incomplete. I really hope we get a solid vision for when ever the next fallout comes out

[@franciscorafaelmontielpale7854]

Exactly! That’s the main problem with every faction even the new ones on the DLCs

[@jcohasset23]

Unless they make one of the endings in fallout 4 canon they're either going to have to make fallout 5 occur before 2287, have it take place in a location far away from the Commonwealth, or have the BoS be a minor faction (such as in New Vegas) since the destruction of the Prydwen and the leadership aboard her takes place in some (most) of the endings. With rumors that fallout 5 might be in New York City they're really going to have to thread the needle.

[@kingofhearts3185]

​@@jcohasset23That's assuming fallout 5 won't have a different chapter. An expeditionary force they left as they passed through new york or just a new chapter wholecloth if it's chicago, alaska, texas, or new orleans.1

[@1Draesx]

Odds are fallout 5(if it doesn't get cancelled) will be the same release as this one, look at Starfield.

[@ice111110]

This has also become one of my favorite channels with this one video. I really enjoy the clear concise information presented, along with the high quality production value.

[@markburdett646]

So happy theres still fallout 4 content like this in 2023, recently re-fell in love with the game hard and started wanting more but obviously we got what we got hiwver your content got me thinking about all the possibilities

[@Pepsismokes]

Glad I found another fallout KZbinr with interesting content, your quality is great, you definitely deserve more recognition. Would love to see some mod content or even some New Vegas content 👀

[@maestrofeli4259]

a weird thing that annoyed me is the cult of following that arthur maxson has

[@xdifficultviper9916]

Its because he allowed non brotherhood lineage into the brotherhood. Presumably also removed anyone in power who doesn’t share his xenophobic views

[@TheTrueRman]

Lyons Pride > Maxson

[@leonrussell9607]

​@@xdifficultviper9916xenophobic views? You mean killing supermutants, synths and ghouls, all of which attack humans

[@mangosteak]

they tried to mirror fashist germanies inner workings. Can't spell the parties name out without getting this comment deleted. So having a cult of personality around a charismatic and xenophobic leader works pretty well

[@pokebreederrichard1200]

They have the right idea, just the wrong way about doing it

[@jeancaron9325]

Sarah Lyons needed to live to keep the BoS Good.

[@johnniewoodard648]

During a Midshipmen Cruise, we had about 4 Midshipmen aboard. Between the usual running trash bags full of air between compartments, trim parties, running around to find some sort or the other kind of stretcher, and sabot keys.. ect... We had them get suited up to go topside and retrieve the mail buoy. Complete with life vest, deck creeper with harness, and the gaff. Then sent them up to the control room to await surfacing......Serving aboard a submarine was an adventure and sometimes fun.

[@tankaroonie8943]

I mean Ronnie shaw does a good part of making the brotherhood better. But I do seriously agree that the brotherhood needed more work done

[@FlyingGuy123]

Ronnie Shaw? The Minuteman?

[@GetShitOnKid]

@@FlyingGuy123He's alluding to the fact she gives you artillery support to destroy them with

[@QualityPen]

@@GetShitOnKid”Shouldn’t have tried to lord it over the Commonwealth. Never ends well.”

[@anthonybottigliero8336]

1. The Brotherhood under Elder Lyons were the kind of thoughtful, useful organization you're talking about... and that's why he was essentially excommunicated from the larger BoS organization, and many of his forces had left. 2. Maxon takes over and wins back support of the larger BoS organization as well as brings back the Outcasts because he promises to return the BoS to the kind of arrogance and thuggery it had left behind under the Lyons regime. The only reform of Lyons they preserved was allowing "outsiders" to become members, mostly because it was a stupid policy which was slowly killing off the organization.

[@christopherbruscas9308]

The only point I really agree with is Point 4 (Better use of minor characters). While points 1, 2, 3, & 5 would certainly have made the faction nicer or more morally palatable, they would have damaged the faction's place in the story structure. Each of the major factions (not including the Minute Men since they are so underdeveloped as to not be a "major" faction) are set up to be neither fully good nor fully bad. This is to facilitate the player's choice to support one faction over another. A faction that is wholly good becomes the obvious choice for most people (studies show the vast majority of players will choose to play good guys over bad guys on their initial playthrough of a game and only play jerks - but not wholly evil - on later runs) while a wholly evil faction is actively avoided. Each faction needs enough "positives" for the player to feel good about supporting them and enough "negatives" for the player to still feel good if they don't. What I would change would be to create a story/gameplay structure that allows the player doing a Brotherhood playthrough to reform/clean up the Brotherhood (which you allude to in point 3) by putting a stop to points 1 & 2 and either reforming or replacing Maxson to cover points 3 & 5 - but I definitely would not remove them from the game at start. This would involve multiple quest arcs and drastically lengthen the game without padding the runtime with a bunch of meaningless radiant quests. Ideally, the quests would be flexible enough to go "Dark Side" and turn the BOS into a tyrannical invader instead. Of course, you'd need to do the same for each of the other factions as well and Bethesda clearly doesn't have the time, money, or interest in putting out games with complex stories anymore.

[@McDonald64]

I feel like we need a part 2 for the BoS.

[@vulkan6757]

Despite joining the Air Force 2 years ago and replaying Fallout 4 rather recently, I absolutely NEVER would have thought of these points! Great work and it makes me think about some of my own writing (mostly for DnD)

[@DevelopmentRobco]

At least the brotherhood doesn't allow you to become supreme leader like every other faction. Minutemen could've been such a cool alternative to the BOS if only it actually had a questline and unique NPCs besides a bunch of randomized settlement helping quests and storming the castle.

[@davidwally1830]

fallout 4's BOS feels a lot more like a watered down Enclave

[@BubbyBoy]

The Maxon Brotherhood is an ugly synthesis of the Lyons Chapter and the original faction out west; despite carrying the worst of both ideals, the Commonwealth Brotherhood just happily go with whatever Arthur says. There's definitely an opportunity to let players shape the faction one way or another, or keep it the way it is. But I suppose the Brotherhood didn't want another Outcast situation.

[@LoneWolf0568]

As a retired US Army NCO, I wrote a FanFic called As It Should Be where the Sole survivor became Commander of Delta Force (based out of Fort Hagen) after he was key to winning the Battle of Anchorage and driving the Chinese out of Alaska (which he was awarded the Medal of Honor for) and that he was the one that was in overall command of Roger Maxson, who was a part of Delta Force (in my story).

[@codexmachina1358]

Why would you ever admit to writing fanfic

[@hanzzel6086]

​@@codexmachina1358Why wouldn't he?

[@codexmachina1358]

@@hanzzel6086 bc it's gay af duh

[@Dragoncam13]

​@@codexmachina1358cause it's based

[@codexmachina1358]

@@Dragoncam13 it is literally the furthest thing from being based you nerd

[@bjk3054]

Your comments on leadershio were bang on. Listening to those in the chain of cimmand below you for their input and opinion is the mark of a strong and secure leader.

[@tsarfox3462]

1. Make Maxon have a slight change of heart during blind betrayal and recognize some synths (or at least Danse) aren't the enemy 2. Make Vertibirds out of metal instead of napalm-soaked tissue paper 3. Either make them nuclear obsessed lunatics or talk about how dangerous nuclear technology is; you can't insult the old world for causing WWIII when you scavenge all the nukes in the area and proceed to start the biggest nuclear war since the one between the US and China 4. I couldn't come up with 5 things. They're Ok I guess, just a lot of room for improvement like the rest of the game. 5. If you wanted to put the Enclave in the game call them that instead of the BOS and give them X-01. FO4 BOS is just diet, storebrand Enclave.

[@doublewoofwoof]

One thing that could have helped was cut. In the quest blind betrayal there was originally an option to battle elder maxon for eldership. I know this could be problematic progression wise if the sole survivor became elder but I think it would work if you fought on danse's behalf and he became elder. Danse is more experienced and since he is a synth he could change the brotherhood's ideology towards them.

[@Voltboy1449]

All hail danse elder of the brotherhood

[@reygunz3059]

I think cutting that content was the right call. I think it was cheesy and out of place, having a challenge for leadership through combat. think this is again one of those areas where people want Fallout 3 BOS in Fallout 4.

[@Voltboy1449]

@@reygunz3059 yes vut rule of cool

[@SCP--rj8hm]

The danse path was also an option in game btw

[@BubbyBoy]

​​@reygunz3059 IIRC, Arthur's supposed main claim to fame is killing a deathclaw when he was a kid, so it's not as if trails of combat would be out of place For all the military flair, the BoS really do follow the archaic trimmings of knighthood

[@knightstonekongo2310]

A really great video, I love all your points. They were all well thought out, and found myself agreeing with all of them, if only Bethesda would hire a writer like you lol. Amazing video!!

[@toakongu1]

Gotta remember the ID -10-Tango papers. Higher ups tend to get pissy when you forget those

[@einwolf]

The easiest explanation for the Brotherhood in Fallout 4 being how they are, is the Enclave. Senior officers and scientists brought in, or who covertly joined after Broken Steel. It has historic president, and makes a lot of story beats immediately click into place. Arthur Maxson is the perfect patsy for a covert take over, being a child with a high pedigree that just needs the wrong people whispering in his ears. Arthur's loyalty to Sarah, and Sarah's strong convictions to her father's cause makes her a prime candidate for being a casualty on a mission gone wrong. So they set her up to be a martyr while playing up Arthur to build up his cult status within the BoS, all the while making him more and more paranoid and isolated from Lyon's teachings. Lancer Captain Kells would make a great deal of sense as a former Enclave officer. As his position puts him in a perfect position to be the one more or less holding Arthur's leash.

[@bgphantom3]

So a SHIELD/HYDRA situation.

[@nswkfbdbanwnsjja3367]

The Enclave has been destroyed already in two games I think its enough

[@reece42069]

@@nswkfbdbanwnsjja3367Enclave remnants will always be out in the world even if the main group was destroyed

[@Dragoncam13]

Yep,like Arcade Ganon​@@reece42069

[@aurawolf2221]

I personally like the BOS in Fallout 4 but... your video definitely raised some fair points & good ideas on how to improve them. As for the BOS being different from Game to game.... I get why people are annoyed by it BUT... it does make some sense that different sects lead by different leaders with different values... would change how each chapter thinks & acts. But that's just me.

[@squiglemcsquigle8414]

The BOS in f4 makes no sense. Sure there's a new leader but you want me to believe that in 10 years everyone in a leadership role just listens to maxson. And that they went from being purely born into it with extremely few outsiders to no emotional connections inside the bos. Yeah no doesn't track. Extremely poor and lazy writing

[@aurawolf2221]

@@squiglemcsquigle8414 I can see your points, I'm just trying to make as much sense of it as possible 🤷‍♂️

[@squiglemcsquigle8414]

@aurawolf2221 fair enough. Just frustrating to see a game which given a few more months would have been so good be so mediocre in the story :(

[@aurawolf2221]

@@squiglemcsquigle8414 agreed, the story for Fallout 4 sucked but luckily... that's not my main source of enjoyment from it 😂

[@marshallscot]

I feel like Bethesda made a mistake and listened to the Fallout 3 haters who disliked the Brotherhood of Steel for being the "good guys." It was an interesting twist in Fallout 3 that the East coast chapter was actually trying to expand and help the wasteland rather than just hoard technology and hide inside vaults. The Brotherhood in Fallout 4 just feels like backtracking to me.

[@pluck8913]

I've never completed a Brotherhood or Institute walkthrough. The Institute simply because I found it one dimensional, evil. The Brotherhood however was due to the blatent disregard of everything that the brotherhood stood for. Was there elitism, yes. was there racism, yes. But they didn't attack civilians, they didn't steal from civilians, and they didn't seek to destroy an entire region's hope of rebuilding with their actions. These changes you proposed would have made a playthrough a possibility for me.

[@xdclancer8847]

They still don’t attack civilians, rail road aren’t civilians they are enemy combatants that declare war on the bos as soon as it arrives. They always stole from “civilians” if they had advanced technology they couldn’t be trusted with My god man They waged a whole war against the ncr for crying out loud!! What fallout games have you actually played?

[@jackflash127]

The most overlooked cost of war, private Jody

[@reaverfang377]

I reckon that the BOS with the modded Danse or you Elder storyline or just mods that let you bypass pointlessly cruel operations and mods that give you even basic Radiant quests with the context of helping people and slight quest modifications like you suggested would've done a world of difference to make the East coast BOS make more sense.

[@theofficialarbitrator]

Which mod is this? im not familiar.

[@cheesytacos6498]

@@theofficialarbitratorIt doesn’t exist sadly

[@thejunktownsheriffkilliand4800]

​@@cheesytacos6498The Danse as Elder mod exists. It was a cut feature from the main game. He still shares a lot of xenophobic views, but with the Sole Survivor as Sentinel and provided that theyre not a total evil maniac, the Brotherhood could open up. The problem is Maxson doctrine ideology is horribly rooted in the Brotherhood. Most if not all soldiers believe in it. Scientists believe in it. All high ranking officers (maybe excluding Ingram, she seems like the most reasonable person on the Prydwen) believe in it. Changing the Brotherhood would take time, and would result in splinter groups like the Outcasts.

[@reaverfang377]

@@thejunktownsheriffkilliand4800 Hell, playing Fo3 and both BOS and Outcasts are just as xenophobic. In Broken steel you can see how the BOS actually feels about Wastelanders just they are better disciplined then the Outcasts who can't wait to tell you how much they despise your existence.

[@reaverfang377]

@robertothesupermutant830 Hey, People got their POVs, hell we're pretty biased ourselves. Just how things are.

[@AListProductions]

I got all the references (31B , 6 years active)

[@marshallscot]

The Brotherhood of Steel in Boston should just be an offshoot of Sara Lyons' Brotherhood based out of DC. After the events of Fallout 3 and under Elder Lyons leadership, the Brotherhood has never been more powerful, so it doesn't really make sense that they would go so far in the other direction under Maxson. At this point the East Coast Brotherhood aught to be coming into its own as an actual nation, not just high tech raiders. Sara Lyons would be High Elder, Maxson would just be one Elder overseeing their expansion into Boston, while several other Elders are overseeing other territories each with their own airship. If you rework their ages a little bit you could very easily have Sara and Maxson be married. Brotherhood of Steel culture is feudalistic and cares about bloodlines, so it makes sense that Sara would use Maxson to legitimize her rule. Not totally unrealistic for them to expand that much in ten years either. The entire reign and conquest of Alexander the Great took place over only 12 years.

[@ikennasmash1030]

The one point I agree with you on is the making use of minor characters. I really would have liked conversations with Quilian and Neriah kind of same way in 3/NV. Nothing but radiant quest talk, ugh... Other than that, to me, Fallout 4's Brotherhood of Steel chapter is the perfect major faction for the game and is quite possibly the best version of the entire Brotherhood of Steel.

[@kommissarchaos9086]

Personally, I think that the whole scribe program could definitely have been done a lot better for example, one thing that they could’ve done is instead of having lancer captain Kells run the program automatically they can have it where, depending on your choices in the mission lost patrol we could’ve instead had paladin Brandis take over the scribe program and depending on who is in charge could have had different types of missions with paladin Brandis being more cautious compared to the standard missions under lancer captain Kells. another thing that could've been done is that depending on how high up the ranks, you are in the brotherhood one of the benefits Teagan could've offer the farmers is that inexchange for crops. The brotherhood would teach the farmers children how to read and write by making them into scribes.

[@jcohasset23]

Even in a BoS playthrough finding Paladin Brandis, let alone managing to talk him into rejoining (or if he's killed by the player), is technically an optional thing so Bethesda may have just gone with it solely being by Captain Kells to simplify the game's development and to give Kells more to do (since he's voiced by Star Trek's Tim Russ). You have some good ideas in this and it would have been nice if the devs could have had some more time to better flesh out the BoS (and the other 3 factions).

[@kommissarchaos9086]

@@jcohasset23 I understand that in certain ways game should be simplified so deadlines could be met however, I do also think at the same time that players should be rewarded for exploring, and doing optional missions, because if the player is really rewarded for such a thing and is shown that their decision to do a optional side mission actually made an impact in the world it would help give weight to their decisions, which is a bit of a issue with fallout 4,because the only real decision that the game offer is basically what aesthetic do you want for the Commonwealth ?

[@jcohasset23]

@@kommissarchaos9086Sadly yes and that's most evident in doing a minimal quest run compared to the normal "go everywhere and do all quests" that players typically do. In ways it's kind of liberating to know that outside of a few choices nothing matters in the game because there is a lot that can be done in Fallout 4 to waste time on as a reason to keep playing but at the same time it's disheartening because Fallout 4 could have been so much more than it is.

[@kommissarchaos9086]

It’s very disheartening , infact my intention with that initial comment was me just wishing that Bethesda put more love and care in a very beloved franchise , instead of using the mass produce quality be damned approach it seems to love to use.

[@Duke_of_Petchington]

The pridwyn is powered by a Nuclear salvaged from a an Aircraft Carrier.

[@Marshalljft]

It's impressive the amount of research you did for this. Either that, or you have much experience in a military environment. Well said, and great video.

[@Theegreygaming]

I hate research... with a passion... just drawing on prior experiences. :)

[@brianlawrence3194]

Subscribed just for the military knowledge. You should cover the unmarked quest to collect an exhaust sample

[@TheBasedTyrant]

Now that you mention it I never cared to notice that there were no children inside the BOS bunker in Fallout New Vegas, just "teenagers". This is something that you might think I would consider or at least notice before I blew it up with everyone inside. Then again there are children on the Prydwyn so maybe that's something that I'll consider before blowing it up... Though probably not.

[@bryancasper4402]

Your references intimate that you're prior service, yet you don't seem to know who Jody is. Jody isn't a fellow service member but rather a moniker applied to that guy back home who's trying to get with your girl while you're gone. To quote the cadence we used to march to, "It's alright, its OK, Jody's got your girl and gone, It's alright, its okay". Either way good effort with the reference, made me smile anyway.

[@Theegreygaming]

in my experience, Jody almost always was someone from another unit. while the concept of jody was just that he was back home with your girl, the reality was overwhelmingly that he also wore a uniform.

[@PTemnikov]

Using children as soldiers in older fallout games is ultimately a wise thing to do. Children there are basically immortal. Just use them between scripted cutscenes as only there they can die)

[@pwojo9776]

Maxson most of the game: Danse is one of my most loyal subordinates, I trust his judgement in regarding the Commonwealth as if it weren't for him and his squad we wouldn't be here, there's nobody else who I trust more than him. His loyalty and prowess serve as examples that all Brotherhood soldiers should aspire to be. Maxson the second it was revealed that Danse *might* be a synth: I've never met this man before in my life. His life and word mean nothing to me.

[@RedWolfWindgear]

Haylen I kind of wish was a companion. If you choose to execute Danse she takes his spot and follows you around the Commonwealth. I'd loved to of romanced her too. She is so cute and lovable. She is on a list of characters who I feel should have got the companion treatment.

[@matthewcrooks29]

I've been looking forward to this

[@LordRunolfrUlfsson]

(20:54) Wait... fossil fuels? I thought that the Prydwen was powered by a nuclear reactor salvaged from a sea-going aircraft carrier... most likely from Rivet City.

[@fallout0624]

He is incorrect, it does have a reactor it's even stated in the terminals aboard the ship itself

[@babyatemydingo574]

I understood all of those references. Don't forget to fill out your Papa Uniform Fifty-Five Yankee form.

[@Theegreygaming]

that's a new one for me.

[@babyatemydingo574]

​@@Theegreygaminghad a senior corpsman hand those out to anyone who had a routine physical ailment (joint pain, headaches, etc)

[@Theegreygaming]

@@babyatemydingo574 so it was a funny euphemism for a LLD chit?

[@babyatemydingo574]

@@Theegreygaming more or less lol

[@jafsrob]

You can ABSOLUTELY make having 13 year old's born from your order being part of your order make sense. The way you do this is to have your teenagers be part of your logistics and repair team. They would help maintain and fix weapons and armor after battles. This would allow every member of your organization to understand how their weapon functions at least to a degree to make some basic field repairs if they can find the components to do so. Put them in positions out of harms way, under supervision, where they are learning while contributing to the organization directly. Of course, this wouldn't eliminate the need for a trained armorer or weapons repairman, because they need to know substantially more about how each weapon works down to each individual component instead of just understand the principles of a type. So your teens in your team would understand how the basic function of laser weapons as a whole, but not how to construct, say, a beam splitter. They would know how to attach one given a basic laser pistol or rifle and the mod, but not how to actually create the mod. Food for thought on the logistics of children in a military orginization. Also, any children bellow 13 would just be going through, like, regular schooling to learn math, language, history, etc etc.

[@georgeblair3894]

Retired Major here. (Prior service enlisted). 2) Above and beyond the fact that the squires et. al., we are SINGLE-MANNING into a VERY hostile environment look like mid - 1930's Hitler Youth, ....just WTF - OVER? Kellis - you're a taxi driver. Nothing more, nothing less. 3) Maxson's "speech" always struck me as short-sighted. I remember my first playthrough thinking 'How the F did this guy become in charge of the BOS' (Please note - I had the same thoughts about some of my Battalion Commanders)

[@Theegreygaming]

Thank you for your service. I've never done much reading into the HY, but it doesn't surprise me that there's a parallel there. also, WTF, Over... how did that not make the cut?

[@michaeijn67]

For Me having the Prydwen alongside smaller airships as supply depots for a main supply from DC to Boston would make sense, in truth a supply chain!

[@evilemuempire9550]

Or just Vertibirds, realistically it’s not that far

[@michaeijn67]

​@@evilemuempire9550 Vertibirds absolutely true my friend Vertibirds are faster and have more stealth.

[@afghanistandaily9175]

@@evilemuempire9550 Or, you know, boats.

[@evilemuempire9550]

@@afghanistandaily9175 True, though I’m not sure how dangerous the ocean is

[@theenigmaticst7572]

It's not an ID-10-T form, it's a P38C4K form... But I like the ideas, and it would make a lot more sense for the BoS, making them a lot more like the military force they are meant to be.

[@isnardcampanati3552]

If you havent tried yet, even though you dont talk about mods, try a run on horizon

[@danielsaxon2206]

Ever since playing Fallout 4 in a BoS play through, I’ve wanted to see a faction that’s the opposite of the BoS. Like a Brotherhood of Flesh, which could be a faction of ghouls and super mutants that use Power Armor and have a rigid military structure that see irradiated creatures of the wasteland as the only true inheritors of Earth and try to force people to become ghouls or super mutants. Have a BoS and BoF war happen as either the main conflict of the game or at least a major side quest.

[@praetorurbanus2917]

We got that in Fallout 1, with the Master and his Unity. And that game (plus Fallout 3) already proved that it would not work. Super mutants & ghouls are both sterile; the one can only be made by FEV exposure, and nobody is making any more; it's explicitly stated that two ghoul parents producing _any_ children is a miracle.

[@danielsaxon2206]

@@praetorurbanus2917 I did not know that, thanks!! I guess I was thinking like they would capture people, have them breed, then expose them to radiation to create more ghouls and such. I’ll have to look into that though.

[@unknowngamer37415]

4:54 I think it's important to note that the brother of steel in fallout 4 is not intending to be a particularly long-term occupation. They're there at first to investigate the signal from the institute and then to destroy them and wipe out the synths.

[@franciscorafaelmontielpale7854]

In a way the Beotherhood has the same problem as every other faction in the game, and it’s their leadership. With the Railroad we saw it how Desdemona made that faction a bunch of conspiracy nut jobs, and her mentality being “The end Justify the means”. Which lead them to be even more scarce for resources, agents, and on the brink of death. Even when the Sole Survivor, leader of the biggest and most loved faction in the commonwealth with all the resources she and the Railroad needs, she discards it because the Minutemen are essentially “bigots” to her cause. We see that mentality with Maxon as well, he doesn’t care how the job is carried only that is carried. We see this manifest with Tegan’s corrupt method of getting resources, squires being put in danger, and the Commonwealth perceiving the BOS as nothing more than glorified Gunners. Which also doesn’t help that Macon’s arrogance and superiority has lead to the Brotherhood being the second most evil faction, first being the Institute. The Brotherhood really needed missions that allowed them to create outpost on the Commonwealth and help earn the trust of the people, so they could get a steady source of food and water, and in the future possible recruitment from the locals. In a way a Brandís/Tegan/Ingrid special missions, in which Tegan does the same, but thanks to Ingrid you proposed a different approach with the Scientist Wing of the Brotherhood. This results in setting a nearby Heliport platform in specific settlements to allow the Brotherhood squad to comen in, settle and protect the settlement. Resulting with not only earning a supplies but also winning the hearts of the Commonwealth. Also the Fort Strong assault should have been a mission that introduce the player on how to settle/fortify Brotherhood outposts. Also remember that there was a cut mission in which Danase, challenge Maxon for control of the faction. Resulting in Danse taking over and straightening the faction. Which would have been a good change of pace

[@Dawndreams174]

also as an out of universe explanation, beth and emil were too obsessed with being morally grey to the point of being hamfisted in their writing

[@Elyseon]

Emil is a moron.

[@samh.6788]

Your points on questioning orders is very good. One of the things that makes the us military so good is the flexibility of lower commands and even NCOs to make on the fly decisions.

[@Wesley-1776]

An idea I’ve had is what if Danse was actually the Sentinel of a branch chapter of Lyons BOS who had been in the commonwealth for awhile, not an independent chapter and still answers to DC, and believes in Lyons mission, and use that as a way to ease the player into the changes in the BOS between 3 and 4.

[@vsc1988]

They were trying to find a balance like they had in Fallout New Vegas. I think Obsidian did a great job at having very different outcomes for New Vegas based on what faction you supported. Each faction had a mix of some gray areas but your character never being truly evil with no real moral system hurts fallout 4. The most you can make him is an a hole with a heart of gold. I was kinda hoping when I first played it that as the game went on it would change. Like your moral judgements would unlock perks. I believe there should have been a moral based perk tree as well as dialogue system. This would have changed have Fallout 4 played and felt. It also would have been an upgrade to the New Vegas and Fallout 3 dialogue system. I am hoping that with Starfield it’s a return to that old dialogue system. I hope that it allows us to be good or bad. Not walk the line the entire game like Fallout 4 did. Because Fallout 4 is great for building settlements but also has one of the most interesting companions in Nick. So I hope those elements of a true moral system, good companions, and building on that great builder they had comes in Starfield.

[@hanzzel6086]

Sooo, did it? I'd check for myself, but I ain't trusting Bugthesda after F:76.

[@toakongu1]

Rewatching this after a year. Highly recommend you read the terminals on the main deck when you go up to the main deck. Start by the ladder with Kell's and Maxson's terminals, then read the ones for each of the Proctors as well. Cade's and Quinlan's are in their respective offices, Ingram's is on the desk in the far left hand corner as you enter the Armor Bay from the Mess Hall, and Teagan's is inside the armory cage I believe. Had no idea these entries even existed until I watched Oxhorn's video recent video where he explored the entirety of the Prydwyn. The entries on the above terminals offer a lot pf insight to the characters, especially regarding Ingram's loss of her legs.

[@lorinctoth9402]

I love how Maxon is supposed to be early 20s and then he looks more than 40.

[@noahdean9685]

Maybe it has something to do with stress and trauma and the scar on his face still I agree that technology should be out of the hands of those who don't know how to use them the people can keep their guns and knives but not any energy weapons/technology, Plus destroy the super mutants and ghouls even if they are kind and peaceful there's still a chance that they can go feral and lose who they once were better to kill them now then later!

[@lorinctoth9402]

@@noahdean9685 I don't know why did you brought it up, becuase I didn't mention it, but your reasoning is the equivalent to "better people get killed, there is a chance they will become criminals". None of those are a normal thing to say, so as long as ghouls (and mutants) are sentient and doesn't harm anyone they deserve to live in peace, unharmed.

[@wastelander138]

I made a suggestion on reddit about improving not only the BOS but the entire game itself. Taking a leaf from Skyrim modders and doing Fallout 4: Extended Cut. Taking the main quest and DLC and making a more cohesive story, making your dialogue choices and actions matter and have more consequences. For example, if you take out the BOS with the Institute, you could have BOS remnants looking for you throughout the wasteland. Or the same if you betray the Railroad to the Institute. Even smaller interactions like giving Mama Murphy the chems to OD, making the other settlers trust you less or even hate you. Or the "synth stand off" in Diamond City, if you take the shot to kill the crazed brother, some of the NPC's might not be happy with you and not want to do business or the opposite, they might trust you more. Obviously this would mean expanding the dialogue of the Sole Survivor but it could be done using AI. I know this is a bit controversial at the moment but it's just a thought.

[@RyanEglitis]

Even if you pay the farmers for their crops, this interaction still hard caps the happiness level of the settlement. It seems like bethesda wants to take a swipe at capitalism...

[@SeanCrosser]

Coming into Fallout 4 after New Vegas, I was playing the Institute-Brotherhood conflict while looking for a way to defect Brotherhood scientists to the Institute so that they'll be able to use their scientific minds to doing science instead of reconstructing Liberty Prime... and it's just a Blue path or Red path choice

[@crowttubebot3075]

9:00 Oh, I got every single one of those references. Messing with boots is the right of every Marine, and we love doing it.

[@ncamon]

His three achievements was surviving (not killing) a deathclaw, killing two bandits, and one super mutant. That is just the first hour after leaving the vault for the lone survivor, and with slaying the deathclaw.

[@jcohasset23]

For a teenager that could be considered somewhat impressive but yeah even if one plays as Nora and not the war-hero Nate it really pales compared to what the sole survivor experiences just going from the vault to Concord to Diamond City.

[@SkorpionKing135]

fallout 3 deathclaws are different than fallout 4 ones

[@jcohasset23]

@@SkorpionKing135 That is true and one of the complaints about deathclaws in Fallout 4 is they aren't as big of a threat. I ran into one a few days ago near Sunshine Tidings that got the drop on me but instead of it instantly attacking me it roared first which alerted me to danger and allowed me time to dispatch it without taking damage.

[@SkorpionKing135]

@@jcohasset23 yeah i honestly dont like how pathetic they are in fo4 like in fnv they were crazy strong and quarry junction was a fight for my life but i'd rather be afraid of a 7 foot tall lizard and actually have to make an effort over a bullet sponge that barely attacks back

[@magnusskallagrimsson6707]

I recall a video that pointed out an option to Mxson - Danse. The video argued that the Sole Survivor could challenge or prompt Danse to challenge Maxson for leadership. It doesn't have to be Danse, it could be Ingram, or Brandis. And your ideas around developing overlooked characters like Haylen and Brandis could really add to that build up.

[@Eneeki]

The easy way to fix Maxon's shallowness would have been to add a few lines of dialog where he was not the captain of the ship until it was on it's way to the commonwealth for what ever reason and he got a field promotion as the actual captain passed away. It would allow the player to justify his inexperience as a leader in the ways you bring up in this video. for instance the original captain getting betrayed and offed by a settlement outside the commonwealth while resupplying. Or even having that happen to say the top 3 officers of the ship leaving an inexperienced 4th in command Maxon in charge before he gained the wisdom needed to be a good leader. I find this to be the same solution to most of the story issues. A few lines of dialog such as Danse saying they lost their top brass in the way leaving Maxon in charge would have gone a long way to fix some of the jankyness in all the factions stories.

[@matthewcrooks29]

I definitely agree that their should of been more character build with scribe haylen and making her a companion. As for the institute i agree their should of been a divided situation where a voting like scene should of been added on what the ultimate fate should become of the institute whether it should be destroyed or taken over. However i do like the part with the brotherhood of steel not liking synths and them believing that they are abominations to mankind, this is coming from a guy who sided who sided with the mm first play through and chose to protect synths

[@evilemuempire9550]

It’s the one part that seems kind of essential to the Brotherhood being in the commonwealth, I feel like they could have been lenient to an institute that didn’t have synths (which kind of breaks the story)

[@matthewcrooks29]

@evilemuempire9550 I wouldn't say lenient but need to be put in check and under control so they don't do experiments that were done in the prewar which they were with the fev and nuclear technology with the synths ontop

[@Acirno]

RadKing has a video called The Brotherhood of Steel Should NOT be in Fallout 4. This is a post I left in the Comments... Mainly some ideas to build on but what do you think? @Acirno 5 months ago I always thought the Brotherhood took away from the game and struggle not to wipe them out once they show up in their physics defying blimp. Keeping Dance and crew is a must, they would have been better utilized as a means to power armor improvement and tech rather than just giving it to us from the beginning. The energy reading they found, they thought were Enclave Remnants they were sent to track down and eliminate. I would argue that a small group of Enclave that Dance was sent to track down could have been a nice reason for Dance being there and make for some nice quest ideas just to find out the institute absorbed them into the faction or just wiped them out for being in the way. So yes IMO the Brotherhood should have not been in the game to the degree they were. The Railroad is a joke right? The most non-covert, covert group I have ever seen. They could have been great, the primary source of stealth tech from both prewar and stolen from other factions. Really Ballistic weave is the only thing that made sense seeing as a covert op you want to maintain the ability to move fast so not heavy armor to slow you down. I would picture their "Heavies" as being more like Agent 47 than a useless mini-gun toting-synth wanabe! Covertly taking down the Institute and other factions instead of all out frontal assault on the institute. I mean really, that's the Brotherhoods MO. The Minutemen are simple and ties in to how the Institute are handled. "for the record, being General and doing everything was a bad way to do things. I smack every settler that complains about food/water and not having a place to sleep with the butt of my gun." Making you the General as soon as you meet the Faction, It could and probably should have waited till much later if at all, would have made sense for the General to send you out to help settlements instead of the General doing it all. And while I do enjoy settlement building, It shouldn't have been such a huge portion of the game. A few settlements as player homes and or Minutemen outpost would have sufficed and then added some more as DLC for after the Main Quest. Keep in mind that Settlement building could have played a larger role in any faction instead of just the Minutemen. Now the Institute, and wow where to begin. Taking a child and killing your spouse would be enough a reason to wipe out any faction. Putting your child in charge of the Institute was a bad idea at best and outright stupid and game breading story-wise at worst. Finding your son who is at least 30 years older than you and then not giving you much for dialog is in poor form even for Bethesda. Dialog is what drives a great game and this alone broke the Institute for me better yet making you a proxy leader just because. At least the Brotherhood didn't make that mistake. I really hate being the leader of every group in Bethesda games. The Institute really needed their story fleshed out a bit more, It started out ok but lost direction and never found it again. I think and is only an opinion, that Virgil should have been an off-shoot leading a group of disgruntled scientist who didn't like the way "Father" was running things instead of an outcast that was only there to give you a way into the Institute. "The Railroad could have done all that for the story playing that you were the first to obtain an intact working Courser chip." Once inside who you side with would determine the fate of all factions. Join Father and wipe out Virgils group then deal with the Railroad and Minutemen. Join Virgil and steer the Institute into helping the Minutemen reform a Government while destroying the Railroad... Soooo many directions the ending could have gone and all based on choices you made as you played. Now here is the kicker, while the Brotherhood was not needed, it would have worked with them in the game as well.

[@JohnDoe-qu2dr]

10:50 Holy shit I didn't know he was THAT BAD. I mean even Preston had way more experience than this "Elder".

[@ManofSteel4889]

I think, and this is evident especially in Fallout NV, that most factions are technically neutral leaning toward evil or good and its the players choices that tip it to one side or another. Meaning, your successful attempts to make an organization more benevolent or more nefarious is based on your choices and how well you convinced the leaders of said group to go along with changes. Take the NCR, on paper they sound like a “good” faction morally speaking but they are more than willing to disenfranchise poor people and resort to murder to get their way. Your actions in their quest lines to benefit both the NCR and the people of NV through Mutual Cooperation allow the NCR to move toward being more catered to the people rather than the Rich Cattleman. If fallout 4 were given more time in development (18 months atleast) they could have written the story to allow you the chance to change an organization from something with good intentions but no way of executing to being a force for good. Or….you know….let the world you have a grudge and the world is going to pay the price….NV Courier style.

[@TheGreySpectrum]

I always felt like Fallout 4's Brotherhood of Steel leaned into the 40k angle. I can't confirm that in any way, but I- and others that are fans of the setting- have long seen similarities between Fallout and 40k, especially with regards to the BoS; flame throwers are called 'flamers', like in 40k. The ripper is more or less a mini chainsword. The bleak and tongue-in-cheek tone of Fallout isn't far off from what 40k was in the 80's and most of the 90's before they went darker in the late 90's. It's really no wonder that 3, New Vegas, and 4 all got 40k mods, with NV in particular having a 'total conversion' mod setting the NCR as the Imperial Guard, Caesar's Legion as the forces of Chaos, BoS as marines, super mutants as orks, and so on. In 4, the Brotherhood's extreme intolerance of anything non-human and stance towards technology read a lot like a mixture of the Imperium at large and the Adeptus Mechanicus.

[@redrook]

A lot of the stuff you mention is why I actually like the Brotherhood. They are bad guys who believe themselves to be good guys and they view the commonwealth pretty much the same as the Institute does. Tainted and below them. Yes, they have some good-natured people in their ranks and support each other but, at the end of the day, they are a xenophobic force and are perfectly fine commiting the same atrocities at the institute. At the end of the day they are authoritarians first even if they are sympathetic or believe themselves to be rightious. Right down to the most likable character. To try and pretend they are secretly good guys is just to excuse the evil they do for the sake of security. It's very similar to Caesars Legion. As a faction in the game, they feel exactly how they should IMO. A mess of contradictions based around a lot of old dogma and might makes right thinking.

[@SaidNoGaming]

I remember you mentioned the camp in fallout 76 What I think are Cons: Most of the stuff you have to buy Cannot place near preexisting buildings or locations Cannot scrap things I think If you join a server we’re someone has a camp we’re your camp is, then your camp will be completely deleting and stored individually i think tho this hasn’t happened to me There are allys but I don’t think they’re anything like settlers I’m pretty sure your very restricted in what you can build at all Plenty of Fallout 1st objects Objects don’t always place exactly where you placed them if there clipping any though something like leaves and if you place it inside of a bus it will appear on top of it What I think are pros: Idk you can place most places barley I guess

[@AusSP]

Correction: A lot of the stuff you have to buy. There are plans everywhere, but a lot is locked behind quests and stuff. While you can't place them near existing locations, that's a "problem" with FO4, too - it needs some guarantee that quests can actually occur. 76 is much less restrictive. You cannot scrap world items, no. Your stuff, yes. Not trees, or buses, or broken houses. If your Camp is overwritten by an existing player, you can leave the Server and it will be restored. Otherwise, yes, it gets packed up as a Plan, and can be set anywhere in the world, as long as it's close enough in terrain. Allies are not even remotely settlers. They're almost like a companion, except they just... live at your place and don't do much and give you quests. You can't take them as a real companion into the wastes. I'm not sure what you mean by "restricted in what you can build" beyond the obvious "start with very basic things, have to find/buy plans". Like, building Power Armor Stations requires a quest, or buying with Caps (which are relatively rare).

[@SaidNoGaming]

@@AusSP I haven’t had much experience in fallout 76 and haven’t played in a while so I definitely appeariciate clearing up the stuff Also, you said that implies (at least for me) that you can place settlements where you want in fallout, but you can’t, there’s 37 or so set locations excluding creation club that you can build in, including home playe

[@jackdaone6469]

The biggest change I would have made is have Arthur actually display some of Lyons’ teachings instead of just being a flanderized BoS leader.

[@jackdaone6469]

@robertothesupermutant830 No, I want some consistency. And I also liked the FO3 Brotherhood, as well.

[@ApatheticGod0]

What would I do? Ooh… Hmm… I would say all the issues are with maxson. Personally, I would make it so that over time, as I finish radiant quests, I can show Reagan and kells’ insubordination to him, make him trust me more, then opt for two huge benefits to the BOS: first, they should set up a base in the castle for weapons and training drills as well as a fortified position outside the prydwen and once that foothold is established, the SS should be able to recommend spectacle island as a huge base of operations and town: The squires can work there as farmers and for training and we could have a radiant quest where we invite farmers to stay on spectacle island, perhaps a beacon to attract farmers on the mainland to then ferry them over to the island. The farmers can grow crops and be heavily protected by the BOS and in return, the BOs can become the number one source of crops in the commonwealth, with guaranteed (almost) delivery via vertibird. This would allow the people to actively want to protect BOs goals. Then, once a rapport has been settled, with minuteman-like welcoming of new recruits (instead of “gimme your valuables, peasant farmer”, it should be low level BOS troops offering to protect and train civilians in exchange for them flying BOs troops and their children being trained in the castle, the most heavily fortified place int he commonwealth to secure their safety, or as farmers in spectacle island (as a way to hopefully drag the entire family to the island over time and have BOs troops permanently stationed at the settlement). Eventually, once maxson has seen that the SS has done more than he could have ever imagined possible, helping the people while shoring up BOS goals and directives with ease, we could convince him to spare the institute and use it to help the people. Ingram build the signal interceptor and with Li and dozens of scientists, the BOs could build fusion power plants and/or teleport relays all between their bases, the castle, S island and the airport. From there, the interceptors could be deliberately used as a kind of bus stop for larger settlements, tweaked so that instead of stealing the signal and forcing themselves into the institute, they act as beacons “hey, someone trusted wants entry btu you can deny this” kind of thing. From there, the entire commonwealth is yours to command and control. This would be the end of the game. From here, we enter lore territory If we pretend the commonwealth is reality and not a game, then enemies wouldn’t spawn continuously. Eventually, all the supermutants would be wiped out. Ti would take time but eventually, all the hiding spots would be occupied by BOS troops, all raiders would be pushed far far back to the outskirts of the map. Then the goal would be nuke world. Simple. Go in, kill em all, now we have a BOS base. That’s what I would do

[@rustyshackle8000]

Absolutely crazy to me that Arthur is only a few years older than the Lone Wanderer was at the start of Fallout 3, and yet is somehow Elder. I understand it was absolutely Brotherhood zealots propping up the Maxon bloodline and essentially using him as a puppet, but having some of the Brotherhood show discontent with such a young, unproven leader would make sense. Where's Rothchild? Tristan? Gunny? They're all experienced veterans of the Order who would make great advisors to a young Maxon. Unless they got killed or thrown out due to being staunch supporters of the Lyons Doctrine.

[@60sSam]

"...[I]t's bad writing with no basis....and is just another unnecessary string of radiant quests..." Wow, that's a great description of Fallout 4! And Maxson's lack of personal growth is unsurprising, given how BethSoft's ability to write both stories and characters seems to be inversely proportional to the amount of voice acting in their games.

[@samh.6788]

Bro I had a feeling you were in with the first two points. Those references in the third point were great.

[@Pixelated_minds]

Instead of having a set goal they should have some chirsma check allowing you to change some things about the brotherhood like tolerance of Rouge sythes

[@SkorpionKing135]

I think that instead of Maxson's follow my orders or die and everyone unanimously agreeing to go along with it should've been changed to us having the option to help Maxson stop mutiny and getting a more in depth relationship with Maxson and maybe actually helping guide him in leading the Commonwealth Brotherhood and helping improve the state of the Commonwealth and making a more permanent base so that they can provide longterm help

[@lusisantana2230]

The Brotherhood is perfect. Ad Victorium

[@kekero540]

Fun fact the reason why the US recruitment standards are what they are is because they determined that anyone below those standards would hamper operational effectiveness to such a degree the benefits are outweighed by the negatives of having them on.

[@1976smb]

Good point about Ingram; it would have been nice to get to know her and her background and story. Also, despite her military experience, which has nothing to do with anything, they could have fixed her hair up a bit. I could even see a romance between her and Sturges.

[@Theegreygaming]

I never knew I wanted a ingram sturges romance until now... also sturges is a synth... just throwing that out there. :)

[@1976smb]

@@Theegreygaming I thought about him being a synth as I typed my reply. Imagine the drama that would arise from her finding out that he is a synth, yet her love for him is stronger. Of course, it would play out better if Danse lived in your game.

[@maxclark1497]

Actual the prydwen runs if of 3 nuclear reactors we know this bc if you complete the game with the BOS then ingram ask you to make coolant and tincker tom says in rockets red glare that the prydwen runs off of nuclear power thats why you have to plant the charges on the spheres in the prydwen main deck

[@silverbane8065]

I've never made it to the quest to bully farmer into tything food, but the first thing that piped into my head when I first heard about it was 'Can't I just go to Greygarden? The Handy bots don't *need* the food crops they produce, (unless they turn them into fuel) but they do need parts, maintenance and so on. Maybe they are a better candidate for this?' I dont know it its even an option, I think Greygarden isn't even on the list. But I wonder, if I am the only one that thought this?

[@NCR_Trooper_]

9:00 I do get these references. It’s nice to see someone make a gaming discussion video with these nice little bits. Are you prior service?