The Brotherhood of Steel Should NOT be in Fallout 4

[@the_real_inquisitor]

For everyone who want the shortcuts: 00:00 Intro 01:55 Primary Assumption 05:18 Faction Weakness 05:42 Contra Cutting BoS 08:00 Pro Cutting BoS 09:19 BoS Not Required 11:36 What Would Be Missing? 12:50 Paladin Danse 13:41 Liberty Prime 14:59 The Prydwen 16:32 Power Armor 17:01 Vertibirds 17:51 Smaller Details 18:17 BoS Relationship With The Institute 20:36 Better Minuteman Without The BoS? 23:33 Not Totally Cutting The BoS 24:43 Quest "The Last Patrol" 25:49 Recover Missions 26:40 Quest "Blind Betrayal" 27:47 Redial Quests 28:07 Own Thoughts 28:52 Making The BoS an DLC? 29:35 Fixing The Big 3 30:05 Fixing The Institute 34:46 Fixing The Railroad [NOTE: suggestion on how to fix the Minuteman is at 20:36; not a separated topic here] 41:20 Fixing Smaller Groups - The Gunners 41:50 Fixing Smaller Groups - The Triggerman 41:59 Is It Worth It? 42:45 A Good Example - The Children of Atom 43:12 Outro

[@malekat8539]

A hero we don't deserve

[@Alexander-ry6ri]

Its amazing some random dude who watched the video made these bookmarks and not the guy who spent hours creating the video

[@Rad_King]

Think you can do what I should’ve done and not get pinned? Think again.

[@RowanSkie]

@@Rad_King listening to this, I wonder what you think about the mod Subversion?

[@the_real_inquisitor]

@@Rad_King Next time you will not caught me!

[@willforbes5995]

I think the Minutemen questline should have focused on the fact that the Institute was turning out super mutants and dumping them in the Commonwealth.

[@arcticeagle342]

Or anything that gave it more substance, really.. Especially since (so it seems) Bethesda intends for them to be the canon ending faction, yet also the most made fun of (maybe tied with the Railroad, IDK) for being weak because they were poorly written & poorly implemented. They hardly even have a leveled list lol

[@JackdotC]

@@arcticeagle342 wait for real? Bethesda wants people to do the nazi ending as the cannon one?

[@thefrozenyak5272]

@@arcticeagle342 The Minutemen and their crappy gear was a deliberate choice--They're supposed to be poor settlers defending one another. They should have gotten better gear as more settlements join the cause. Or not make NPC ammo infinite, but go back to the original laser musket concept where they didn't use ammo, but were manually charged by cranking.

[@simonblackwell3576]

@@thefrozenyak5272 especially as those settlements become more prosperous, they have tens of thousands of caps worth of water coming in protected by automatic missile launchers and heavy lasers powered by nuclear reactors but you send your army out into the wastes with nothing but a cloth outfit and a laser musket 😂 I think I’d have liked the minutemen to have more diplomacy focused quests and get stronger that way, like allying with the atom cats to get power armoured minutemen or something like that. Show them as a real faction of the people

[@thefrozenyak5272]

@@simonblackwell3576 Except the player is the only one selling water--settlers just freely share their excess along supply lines. I tend to upgrade most of my settlers weapons, and my "patrols" are either heavily armed and armored, or killbots. I can't do anything about the poor saps generated from a levelled list as random encounters. I agree, the Minutemen questline recruiting different groups that offered different benefits to the faction would have been way better, and more fitting of a "General". There are so many groups and locations that should have been recruited to the Minutemen to make a proper coalition of the people.

[@E_S_K]

As a Brotherhood fan i gotta say that it would have been better if they where kept as a smaller faction kinda like paladin Danse’s recon team.

[@DVGBlur]

Maybe build up a small settlement(since it was so central)with a a slightly bigger team recruited

[@FrancisFjordCupola]

Totally this.

[@420CAK]

If anything bring the prdywen in as DLC with the Brotherhood either working to destroy the institute or round up the remaining synths depending on which faction you with during the main quest

[@Resonance115]

my thoughts exactly.

[@eopatcjo]

​@@420CAK Prydwen as DLC actually seems like a perfect compromise!

[@shorewall]

If you had only Danse's squad, you could still have Danse's story arc. Have Rhys be the hard ass, and Scribe Haylen be the voice of reason. And it's emotional because they are on their own, trying to find out the right thing to do, just like the Commonwealth. And you have to convince Danse, because he sees himself as a zombie bite victim, just waiting to turn on his friends.

[@RJ-wx3fh]

Even, as mentioned, a minutemen questline with the 'agitator' urging you to execute him as a possible institute spy because of their distrust of the institute and their synths. It'd also work from a railroad perspective, with the player choosing whether they quietly off danse from distrust (brotherhood, alone, most KIA from recon, would be easy pickings to create a plausible spy faction for the institute) or introduce him to the railroad as a synth who needs some help coming to terms with himself, ultimately leaving the BOS to stand with them either as a character in the railroad hq, or as a companion for the anti institute push. He could also resurface as that spy if you side with the institute.

[@horrorfan117]

I would've made the whole squad synths. Suggesting that the Institute was aware of the Brotherhood, and was actively planning countermeasures by using synths to run scenarios. Not only that but the synths were copies of an actual recon team you uncover during the investigation where you find the "real" Paladin Danse at the end. Who would you side with? Would you even tell the other team members? How could this impact a Brotherhood of Steel themed DLC? I dunno seems like an interesting questline.

[@eugenemegatron2210]

I hate Rhys😂 i save then kill him every time then reload 😂😂😂

[@EUSF76]

I would imagine them a little bit bigger but not as a main faction like the brotherhood in NV and maybe be able to get them to join up with you against the institute or against any other faction

[@TheEvilLordExdeath]

Fearls don’t change you if you get bitten. Everyone in the wastes knows this, a Paladin of the Brotherhood should know this as well.

[@madametaryn7841]

With where the brotherhood in 3 sat, four had a really interesting opportunity to explore the outcasts as a faction, or even see the tables turned, with lyon loyalists in the commonwealth, running from maxons militaristic regime, offering help to the people to prepare for when his forces come and explaining what happened to Sarah Lyons, which could then be made into a DLC when his forces do arrive.

[@l0rf]

I'm always happy to see how fans come up with scenarios that are more consistent with the lore as well as more interesting overall. Might even allow Sarah Lyons to be alive and enter the Commonwealth ... or she became a bit of a martyr after Maxon executes a coup to take power. You could try and steer Danse into the direction of joining them or sell them out to the coming Brotherhood to curry favour with what the Sole Survivor might see as an emerging superpower next door.

[@Goat-t3d]

@@l0rf She was his mentor and he even had a small crush on her as a kid. I have no clue where this ‘Arthur took down Sarah’ comes from lol.

[@bigdubskis8699]

@@Goat-t3dBecause they are totally ideologically opposed to each other and both strong willed

[@bluegem8582]

Sadly the closest we got was just a random ex scribe selling armor, who joins settlement purely to become vendor in a random encounter, so we don’t get much depth there

[@Axquirix]

Danse's quests followed by the police station only being reinforced, then later danse being outed as a synth and the ensuing questline around that would be great. Especially since then the option would be open to have Danse muck in with the remaining big factions, such as the Railroad or to lead a heavy armor division of the Minutemen. Instead as it is he's just left out in the cold.

[@MLPDethDealr32]

Danse is the only reason my Character joins the BoS. Otherwise i just mod in the Enclave and have my OC Wipe out all threats to them. "God Bless Equestria. Goddess Bless the GRAND Pegasus Enclave". ;)

[@foxanard]

@@MLPDethDealr32 based!

[@baconlovingvampire4523]

Danse joining the Minutemen would make me so happy.

[@brigo1744]

I like the idea of steering the minutemen in different directions. The minutemen are really what you make them, and so you should be able to make them into different moral standpoints

[@chazzcoolidge2654]

Imagine if you could give the Minutemen some serious firepower and suits of power armor to make them a real force to be reckoned with :/ They already have artillery, so what's wrong with a "cavalry regiment" with power armor and heavy weapons?

[@calebbarnhouse496]

It would have been really cool if you could have turned the minutemen into effectively a raider gang if you were to force enough settlements to pay you a protection tax of either soldiers or resources, to the point that the nukaworld alternative ending is changed to have the minutemen either wipe out the raider gangs to free the people, or the based solution, you kill the raiders to take there lands and slaves

[@andrewbernard1911]

@@chazzcoolidge2654Bethesda thought about but got lazy and said that soemthing modders can do

[@chazzcoolidge2654]

@@andrewbernard1911 aaand this is why Fallout 4 is 25% wasted potential.Instead of making the BOS a big deal they could've used that time to make the guns NOT look like utter garbage.

[@tamlandipper29]

You mean you wanted the ability to shape and influence outcomes in a meaningful way, not just pick an ending from a list? In a fallout game! Who do you think made this? J.E. Sawyer?

[@entropic-decay]

Regarding the Gunners as a full faction, I think it'd be interesting to see them as a Brotherhood equivalent with more an emphasis on the military aspects, grown out of military forces that survived the war in the commonwealth region and simply remained there. Realistically, it's unlikely you'd only see one faction grow out of the pre-war US military.

[@MediumRareOpinions]

Absolutely agree. It annoys me that Bethesda has time and time again pushed any surviving military forces into the binary choices of being integrated with the Enclave or converting to the BoS cult

[@dalekrenegade2596]

Sim Settlements 2.

[@twistedyogert]

I agree with you. There probably wouldn't be only a single faction growing out of the surviving pre-war military. Some troops would probably end up as mercenaries since they'd be starving and need caps and people need protection from raiders, super-mutants, and feral ghouls. Heck, I would make the Minutemen a stronger faction because some people don't help others for money. I'd make them a successor to the National Guard who stuck to their current orders to protect the country. This would ask the question, should you help others just because it's the right thing to do, the thrill of being a hero, or as a day job?

[@scottjs5207]

@@twistedyogert I like that. Would've been neat if you could even side with some Raider groups as well, but I get it that you need some generic mooks to shoot at.

[@nicholashodges201]

I would've liked the Gunners to be trying to establish themselves as post apocalyptic nobility and recreating serfdom with the settlements. Then there would've been a point to their inclusion beyond "guys you shoot at". And it would explain their resources beyond off screen "customers"

[@Warrior-Of-Virtue]

The Brotherhood's backstory in FO4 doesn't really make sense. They say that they abandoned the policies of Elder Lyons because they were deemed detrimental to the Brotherhood. However, FO3 ended with the Brotherhood positioned to become the sole power in the Capital Wasteland which should have been seen as the ultimate vindication of those policies.

[@Pigness7]

I fix this in my mod Brothers In Arms, in which I explain that the brotherhood we meet in F4 is mainly the outcasts from fallout 3, after a civil war and them manipulating maxson and turning him away from lyons they took over under the guise of reunification, I have it be a huge cover up and conspiracy to explain why its not explained in the base game lol

[@Zanemob]

@@Pigness7I’ve seen that mod. Funny seeing you here. Never looked much into it to be honest though. Maybe I will.

[@XeviousvSBlackmanta]

@@Pigness7 Bro thats actually a great backstory to explain Maxson's turn to the extreme policies he enforces.

[@JaceMorley]

What I find weird is the brotherhood in F1/2/NV are fundamentally isolationist. The F3 Brotherhood split because Lyons went away from isolationism. The weird thing is that merging with the Outcasts didn't involve returning to isolationism when not being isolationist was the Outcasts main issue with Lyons. Instead, they became expansionist, which would have been antithetical to both the Outcasts and Lyons Loyalists. The F4 BoS are more like Caeser's Legion with Technology than they are the West Coast BoS at this point.

[@GH0STUN1T]

​@JaceMorley fallout brotherhood of steel has the brother hood as a open group that allowed ghouls smart deathclaws and anyone else so the 3 version is likely the Chicago bh that has expanded and yhe outcasts the west coast version

[@44swagnum]

Something I saw as a missed opportunity regarding the Minutemen is their alignment with the Brotherhood. The Brotherhood has all the military might they could want, they just have trouble engaging locals. I don't think it would be out of the question for the Brotherhood to revive (and ideologically re-imagine) the Minutemen. Having a puppet militia would allow the Brotherhood to influence local perspective, more efficiently secure food from farms, and preserve Brotherhood ideals in the region.

[@crassiewassie8354]

Yee! The Brotherhood being a kind of feudal hegemony which ravages places of all the tech and moves on is really interesting to me.

[@Chikensandvich153]

I think it would be a cool idea if the sole survivor was able to stop all evil projects and start good projects, and it would cause the minutemen and institute to somewhat start a relationship

[@Captain-Jinn]

The Minutetoot. The Insta-men. Peace was never an option.

[@toasterman5412]

Yeah I never got was why you can't reform the institute/merge them with the minuteman Seemed like the obvious thing to do

[@umad42]

@@Captain-Jinn Insta-Men..... Instant Men.... SYNTHS! THEY'RE ALL SYNTHS!

[@DemigodoftheSea]

I always thought about this too. Especially since you become Director, it feels like you should be able to go "Alright, now that I'm in charge, and I'm also General of the Minutement, we're now cooperating, and Gen 3 Synths have rights" Or, even better. "This is Agent Sole Survivor reporting into Railroad Command... I'm in. And by in, I mean I'm in charge now. We won."

[@HankScorpio64]

I like the Brotherhood being in 4 but my main issue is.. This I think they did for marketing rather than lore issues.

[@Spark_Chaser]

They're one of four big things "every Fallout game needs." The other three being Super Mutants, Deathclaws, and Vault-Tec.

[@petesperandio]

@@Spark_Chaser Five. Don't forget the Enclave.

[@dephtons]

​@@Spark_ChaserI mean, fallout would be weird without vaults but I get what you mean.

[@Spark_Chaser]

@@petesperandio Honestly, the Enclave weren't a faction until Fallout 2. The other bits I mentioned are original game stuff.

[@totallytubular618]

​@@Spark_Chaser caps too

[@stefanstoyanov7460]

If only paladin Dance's scout team was in the game nothing would be lost. They would act as scouts, observing the situation with the Commonwealth, have the paladins story arc and if the Institute is the winner in the game, set the stage for a brotherhood invasion in the sequel game.

[@Dino2GunZ]

That would have been awesome

[@sunayocarissime5309]

Agreed, that would have been a lot more cohesive. Danse's recon squad with the SS's help and then leave the Commonwealth as either Institute, RR or Minutemen as the three factions that would have been victorious. Theoretical scenario's are as follows. Institute Ending) Recon via Danse's recon squad analyzed and holotape sent to Adams Air Force Base where the Prydwen was being constructed. Even in a terminal entry Ingram says she had to put the airship in hover mode because the fusion core was eating up to much coolant. That would have given the BoS ample time to start massing strength/arms and support to make an assault eventually. Minutemen Ending) With the Institute gone, the BoS has little or no reason to venture to the Commonwealth at all really. That way the MM could technically become a dominant force in Boston, probably take over leadership of Diamond City once its discovered McDonough is a synth. Railroad Ending) Same as above except RR has more support from local settlements and influence. Maybe the BoS would arrive due to their sympathy with synths but that's a big logistical IF. New Vegas was a great stand alone. It did show the BoS WAS around but just on a minor detail, not encompassing the whole narrative. I agree with stefanstoyanov7460 and RadKing. Fallout 4 would probably have been a better title if the BoS had been just a minor faction via just Danse's Recon Squad. The SS could just give them minor support or completely wipe them out if it got to that point in plot.

[@stefanstoyanov7460]

@robertothesupermutant830 I'm saying that the skill of the writers in Bethesda is abysmall. I'm also stating that you won't go wery far in life, throwing insults to random people.

[@tobyhanke0719]

​@robertothesupermutant830hear me out. no one likes fallout tactics BUT fallout tactics set as the BOS invasion of the Commonwealth following the events of that FO4 ending That would be cool I think :)

[@boxylemons7961]

Main problem with that is that fallout doesn't really do "sequel games". The only real ones that exist are the first two (the chosen one being a descendant of the vault dweller in the first game). The Fallout series has generally been an anthology, there really is no series-wide "main character" besides the setting of the american wasteland itself. and no, this isn't a "bethesda" thing, even with Van Buren the protagonist had zero relations to the chosen one or vault dweller.

[@DracoFroggo]

As one of the few people who likes the Minutemen, I really wish they did more with them like you proposed. It could have been so much beefier and involved. I absolutely would've given up the Brotherhood for bettering the other 3 (or even the other 4 if effort was put into the Gunners to make them more than just Raiders But Wearing Green). A New Vegas style role for the Brotherhood would've been perfectly fine imo.

[@steveharrison76]

Solidarity, General. They’re my favourite too. I always liked the Followers of the Apocalypse from the first two games (well, they were barely even there in the second one, to be honest) and thought that the minutemen were like that, but turned up to mutual defence pact level. They were also about rebuilding society, not necessarily how it was before (which would be unrealistic on a practical level, but also on a logistical and philosophical level, which was one of their main points) but into a new civilisation, rather than just a bunch of ‘survivors’ and their descendants. Plus, the railroad should just be some group you can fold into the minutemen as a group of expert operatives in a specific field. So… yeah. They speak to me. I get it. And you’re exactly right. I mean, I like them a lot on a lore level, I like their goals but… it’s implemented as the radiant quest generator faction. Bit of a missed opportunity. Good stuff, boss.

[@Arcana_Jester]

@@steveharrison76 Same! In the 2D20 game I'm playing a former Lyon's Pride that turned Follower, and is actively working with the Minute Men. It's been a ride. Still wear blue, yo.

[@hanzzel6086]

Honestly, the BoS and RR shouldn't have been major factions. And the Gunners/CoA should have been.

[@arcticeagle342]

Joining the Gunners doesn't really make much sense but I would have liked for them to have more lore & story in-game. Anyway I'm a MM lover too, & I enjoy kicking the BoS & Gunners in their metallic or armoured glutes respectively lol

[@hanzzel6086]

@@arcticeagle342The Gunners could have served as a more ruthless MM alternative. Where they only care about the money and nothing else.

[@jjhh8152]

I agree on a lot of your points and have a few of my own. Definitely have it so that the only BoS members are Danse’s squad and the survivor in the bunker. They could be members of the outcast faction from 3 that’s used the tech from the Operation Anchorage dlc to become a prominent faction that left DC and is spreading away from the capital wastes. They could get recruited to help train the Minuteman on how to be a better military force. Build up the relationship between Preston and Danse as the two main guys under you, but after you actually deserve to be the general. Maybe that’s when you get the title after building up their bromance. That would make Danse being a synth and thinking he needs to exile himself a bit more impactful. This route could also give the Minutemen more of a reason to start using vertibirds themselves. A minutes notice to respond to threats is a lot more possible then. Danae’s plight could also feed why they want to take care of the Institute. Stop them from abusing synths as people to burn for infiltration. The Railroad would also be fun by tying them to the growth of the Minutemen as well. Start putting Railroad operatives in the Minutemen and their settlements. Better way to help get synths out of the Commonwealth with hiding among an established group that doesn’t hate them. This could also be a way to stop synths from infiltrating the settlements you make in the game. Now you also have conflict between lying to Preston about things and the ending of the game on what to do about the Institute. The fourth faction should definitely be the gunners and them being the antithesis of the Minutemen. Build them up to be a might makes right and that martial law needs to be instituted across the board. Maybe you take over raider groups as their version of settlement building. Makes a lot more sense to why you have the options for making raider looking settlements in the base game as well. They could want to take on the Institute for the tech and replaceable soldiers they could build. Soldiers that follow orders exactly and never get out of line. Flesh out their lore that they came from a military vault in the area. Maybe Vault-Tec wanted to see if the military structure would last in a vault. Give them a ton of guns to sweeten the mutiny possibility. Their wanted abuse of the synths would put them in direct conflict with the Railroad, and just be another reason why the Minutemen want them gone. Danse and his unit could also be recruited to them as well. Help with more knowledge on power armor and prewar tech. Danse being a synth could help reinforce why they want synth soldiers, and why they just need to take their personalities out of the equation. Danse could find out the plan and he’s a synth this way. He could then kill the leader of the Gunners and himself by blowing them both up. This leads your character to becoming the new head of the faction. The Institute would be better if Shaun was a department head and not the main leader. I’d keep what you said about using the FEV to help cure his cancer and Virgil was his right hand man in the department that had to put a stop to the research. Also put forth that Shaun has been doing things behind the Institute’s back and why settlements have disappeared. Fueling his obsession with curing his cancer and making him more of a madman trying to become perfect. After all the Institute wanted his dna for the gen 3 synths. This could explain why no one knows about it and why Virgil had to run, no loose ends. He still has you kill Kellogg and gets you to help him become the new leader of the Institute. Kellogg could also still be in Nick’s head warning you how much you don’t know Shaun and shouldn’t trust him. Maybe this leads to a dynamic on forgiving Kellogg, or finally getting rid of him. Shaun and you then take over the commonwealth with a brand new FEV variant that makes people immune to radiation poisoning, but you have to fall inline with the Institute’s belief that tech is the best solution. Technology no matter what; justifies the means to the end.

[@highwaystar4518]

“And ill make them do this and say this! What a plot twist!” “But why would they do that?” “inunnolol”

[@Darksoul9669]

I just think the railroad and minutemen really suffered from not having any big set pieces and minimal theming. Would have been nice to have those be on par with the institute and brotherhood.

[@Hypercube_Infinity]

Did you never build out the castle so hard it dragged frame rate??

[@askovtk4834]

sorta hoped the safehouse your recovered are actually useful, like actually being an base with all the basic craft table or you can quest from the escaped syth in there from time to time. or you get quest like keeping the route clear or making a new one, etc etc

[@TheEvilLordExdeath]

Railroad had the least presence in the game.

[@jamestrout9871]

Very true! The Minutemen, institute and railroad’s biggest set piece moment always involves the brotherhood!

[@thatGuy-wm2cr]

@TheEvilLordExdeath but the entire point of the railroad is to be quiet, that's their big set piece, big things with small forces, like blowing Pyrdwyn with one vertibird and some bombs, or destroying the institutes nuclear reactor with one inside man to stoke up an uprising of synths

[@Alex_FRD]

Fans: The dev time and effort would have gone to the other factions. Reality: The game would have released earlier.

[@baconlovingvampire4523]

Unfortunately true

[@andrewbernard1911]

Fallout 4 story while initially feeling quite deep feels like the opposite now. I think they way to do it in the future is by having multiple main stories. Imagine railroad vs institute and then also minutemen vs gunner. There’s so much more they could do with the stories and make more adaptive territories, maybe even missions where you clear territory for a faction to control like Quincy back to minutemen.

[@LoveProWrestling]

Try Sim Settlements 2 for exactly that.

[@kazmark_gl8652]

​@LoveProWrestling Sim Settlements 2 is good for that. although it continues to annoy me how little it allows the Miniutemen to play into its story. although it fits perfectly into fallout 4 by absolutely ignoring the Miniutemen until the middle of a quest suddenly gets an extra option because I've done their questline.

[@classicnestetris3268]

Could have a storyline where the institute can be seen as undeniably evil while another could have them the undisputed heroes, same with the minutemen and the railroad with an ending where they unify against a potential external enemy or they descend into the same kind wars that put the world into its sorry state to begin with having diplomacy actually matter ultimately

[@arcticeagle342]

Kind of like Starfield, you can do these main questlines for these large factions separate or even intwining with eachother

[@sleepyproduction7166]

Fallout 4 feels like the bare minimum. They were so hopped up on ‘no one knows who is a synth you can’t trust anyone’ to notice how lacking everything else was. Even the environmental writers started to seem like they were putting out the same stuff. And those ones usually save Bethesda games.

[@RedwoodTheElf]

Making it so you could steer the Minutemen into anti-Institute would have some interesting story consequences, given that Sturges is, in fact, a Synth, and he was with Preston at the museum. It's never mentioned in the game dialog or anything, but he has a synth component in his inventory if you use console commands to kill him.

[@marshallscot]

The whole faction system and story arc would need to be reworked. I think the first part of the story if progressed normally should be about resolving some sort of conflict between the Gunners and the Minutemen. They are both vying for the "jewel" of Diamond City which is still neutral territory. The Brotherhood and the Institute should be clearly larger and more powerful factions who have unclear motives and can only be dealt with after accumulating some power and influence. The only way the Railroad even makes sense as a faction is if they are a confederacy of outcasts. Ghouls, super-mutants, and synths all working together since they are mutually despised by most factions. Also, maybe they should actually use the railroads? Like live in the subways and use them as a trade network? The Vaults could be their own minor faction that could either coalesce into a true alliance or be individually picked up by larger factions.

[@sev1120]

Like, synths would be the face of the railroad since they look human, with ghouls working as shock troops and super mutants as the walking tanks they're supposed to be. You could have them tunnelling out from one of the railway tunnels to establish one of their safe houses when they discover the institute is behind almost every problem the commonwealth ia facing, and they try to get other factions to work alongside them but petty grievances keep dividing them, until the sole survivor of vault 111 shows up and is able to unite them, be it through climbing command, having the factions' respect, or being so deadly the others don't want to be on the survivor's bad side

[@kaelell4697]

@@marshallscot make them operate out of goodneighbor

[@stevenarndt6735]

I just want to say, that I very much appreciate how you always stay respectful of people even when you talk about things you dislike in the games. You don’t degenerate into general badmouthing or or insults, you don’t call the development team lazy or incompetent, you state your case, back it up, and you’re always civil, articulate and respectful. In this day and age, where if you don’t like a game it feels like internet law to turn it into a borderline personal hatred, I cannot say enough how much I admire your approach to things like this. I wish more people in all fanbases had your level of class and maturity. Thank you.

[@CantusTropus]

I mean, if you think you have an actual case for the dev team being lazy/incompetent, I don't see a problem with making that case. But yes, general internet rage is far too common.

[@MediocritysMuse]

A remark about Danse's quest. They could have still included his mission about him finding out he's a synth. All you'd have to do is make him swap places with Brandis and make him the recon group that was wiped out. You'd just find him and let him become your companion and then eventually find out he's a synth after getting into the institute. His mission could still be applicable.

[@chelseaschack6013]

I almost think that would be more impactful! tw: suicide Getting the order to kill Danse from Maxon, and then having to talk Danse into staying alive has always felt a little clunkier. If the conflict was instead entirely internal with Danse, a majorly principled BoS member, finding out he's a synth and having to weigh his Principles against his Life, I honestly would be a little more hooked, and the conversation to talk him down would be harder hitting

[@shorewall]

You can still do it with the Recon Team. Have Rhys be the hardliner, Haylen be the bleeding heart, and Danse being principled to take his own life, like someone who was bite by a zombie. And you have different options to work it out.

[@zamordomin]

35:10 Funnily enough, this is actually explained in Fallout 3. Victoria tells the player that there are already other groups that help slaves. The Railroad will help them if they can, but don't seem to prioritize humans over synths.

[@nakuvamp]

They REALLY shouldn't be in 76

[@iloveowls90]

Actually it makes sense to have them in 76

[@zeedavis5176]

I loved the brotherhood in fo3 and was 100% beefed about them killing off Sarah in fo4. I would have LOVED a cameo from elder Sarah Lyons. Maybe even just her voice thanking you for helping Danses recon team or smth.

[@angquangnguyenthac2833]

They killed her off because with her, the BoS would not have a nuance story arc according to a lot of BoS old fans. The BoS in Fo3 got the "too much of a goody two shoes" critic from FNV/ "old fallout" fans who wanted the BoS to be just an isolationist cool tech bro faction that they can slap their projection onto instead of anything other than that. So because of this, the Fo4 BoS has to be this way. Fo4 is an example of how nostalgia bullshit and over praised for it can steer a good ship into a wall. You only just need to actually compare the amount of actual hidden content between Fo3 vs FNV to really understand why Fo4 became this way.

[@CantusTropus]

@@angquangnguyenthac2833 The FO4 Brotherhood is ALSO nothing like the old-school Brotherhood, just in a different direction than Lyons' group. It's hardly nostalgia baiting. They're basically Diet Enclave, a bunch of expansionists who hate ghouls and muties, and seemingly have no interest in looting technology (since they just blew up the Institute without even pillaging it first). Plus, what's wrong with being unhappy that an important faction's characterisation is being radically changed?

[@TheDeathstyk]

I definitely would have preferred a different faction filling the role of "staunch anti institute", and the brotherhood largely being what you describe as a small recon force or added in with a dlc. The big 3 all felt super rushed for sure. I feel like the railroad and brotherhood could have been good smaller factions that you can recruit to help shape the minutemen in different ways, maybe even adding the gunners for a more ruthless recruit option.

[@dalekrenegade2596]

Agree, the railroad being a support faction would have been preferable. Kinda like the Boomers in New Vegas but a bit more relevant.

[@walu63]

Fallout new Vegas had a great inclusion of the BOS in my opinion. I like how it wasn’t a major faction but it still has some signifigance as you encounter it no matter who you side with. The next games should just have the BOS in some fortress or something and they are just a more minor faction

[@MidanMagistrate]

The Hidden Valley Chapter makes even less sense! They started a war with the NCR and don't communicate with Lost Hills or the other chapters, and they devolved back into their fanatical ways of isolationism, hoarding technology, and being hostile to outsiders.

[@kj_heichou]

​@@MidanMagistrateit makes perfect sense for them to become isolationist. 1. They got badly beaten by the NCR, and exposing themselves would just lead to them being destroyed 2. Communications with lost hills could easily be intercepted or picked up by the NCR

[@azeria1]

​@@MidanMagistratenot just the hidden valley chapter the brotherhood and NCR war is still on going during New Vegas which is why the NCR is struggling in Vegas and against the fiends and legion this war damaged the NCR economically and military

[@Thelazybaboon-kn3dc]

Except the entire third game (fo3) is set to prop up the brotherhood as the dominant power in the East Coast just a decade or two before the events of fallout 4 they have the most lore sense of any faction to be just as powerful as they are while I agree they turned to isolationist rather quickly especially considering the events I just wrote. I see that as a change for the worst. We could have got the continuation of a knight in shining armor come to liberate the wasteland instead we got the Sci-Fi version of the Christian crusades.

[@dangi6516]

​@@azeria1the reason why NCR is not doing well in Mojave is that they send recruits to Vegas, and an experienced and equipped army is fighting the brotherhood in California

[@pikazilla6405]

I think the railroad should not have been a major story ending faction, their goal of saving synths is so narrow and doesn't address the commonwealth as a whole and at the same time is so central to their identity and soul that changing their mindset doesn't work either (they're literally names after the railroad that saved slaves in America), being a small group with the one base that preaches their ideology for the player to consider and gives them quests to save and guide synths and not much more than that would honestly be ideal

[@CantusTropus]

It would've made more sense if they were all synths. To be honest, they just shouldn't be an important faction. Why are they choosing to prioritise helping synths, rather than their fellow humans, when the Wasteland is so punishing and hard to survive in? They seem to care more about synths than humans, which just makes them look misanthropic. At least if they were synths themselves this would make some sense.

[@caesari3708]

The Anti-Synth Minutemen questline could also tie intl the Covennant Quest. A mid-point branch of the Minutemen arc could be deciding to whipe out/shut down/ or ally with The Covenant. Doing the latter would change the course of the faction. There was also a missing opportunity to center the questline around bringing stray Minutemen groups back into the fold. A few groups and leaders are mentioned but never seen and could have been full missions of diplomacy/threats/or completing sidequests to get them to join up. Would have been interesting to give Wire a chance at rejoining and the moral issues of forgiving a raider.

[@KombatUnit91]

I've only ever sided with the Brotherhood in 4 but I felt the Prydwen was a hugely misplaced reach just there for spectacle. Would have loved to see a homespun Commonwealth chapter on the backstep, paranoid and nearly dead ala the Mojave chapter.

[@Slowboyheals]

Aw man you got ya do a Minute men ending! It’s a big ass tower defence style hold out at the castle with the boa and institute attatcking!

[@DaHomieGpa]

The brotherhood is the side I pick the least they are such assholes to everybody I tried and I was like fuck you guys all ungrateful but I mean you can probably say the same to the other factions except the minutemen but the brotherhood just more in your face

[@Pwnopolis]

Ships like the prydwen were what the brotherhood has historically used to go from point a to point b. The group in DC crashed in one of those ships. So I would argue its not just there for spectacle, its there to show us what we have been told about but not seen.

[@Slowboyheals]

@@Pwnopolis I agree Much like we’ve seen static vertibirds in 3 and nv they gave us dynamic verts in 4 to show what we’ve heard about for decades

[@youmukonpaku3168]

@@Slowboyheals there are two *mobile* vertibirds in New Vegas - Bear Force One transporting President Kimball (you can shoot it down) and the Enclave Remnant vertibird that shows up during the Battle of Hoover Dam if you complete Arcade Gannon's companion quest in a certain manner. I think there's at least one entity vertibird in Fallout 3's expansions, for that matter, but I didn't pay much attention to them.

[@DuckDando1066]

I think I’d keep Danses crew, and the one guy in the bunker for brotherhood, but I’d change them into the outcasts. Having your character be able to convince them join the minute men as a kind of merc security

[@samueltitone5683]

(Outside of “iconic to the franchise”) I believe the Brotherhood were included because King Arthur is known as the Once and Future King of England, so, of course, Arthur Maxson “King” of the BoS has to reclaim New England. King Arthur’s ship is even named the Prydwen if I remember correctly. Yes if this is true, they should have gone all in on the King Arthur theme. Why not give Maxson a crazy old scribe who acts like Merlin? Why not have Danse be the leader of a group of elite sentinels named the Round Table? FO4 BoS discussions could’ve been a lot of Monty Python references. Instead, we have to debate if Maxson is a nutcase (he is) and whether or not synths should be considered machines. Ugh.

[@abdalln8554]

That's a new take, never heard someone bring that up before but i kinda dig it. Maxson in a scrap metal crown and cloak waving his scepter at you screaming "IM BEING REASONABLE HERE"

[@ChishioAme]

@@abdalln8554 Fun fact: Maxson's early concept art had him wearing a cape, which would have made that even easier.

[@abdalln8554]

@@ChishioAme lol reminds me of the Injustice comic where Plastic man points out Superman is claiming he isn't a deranged megalomaniac while he's sitting on a giant black metal throne.

[@weplo1597]

Funny how concept Art Maxson was close to that. Also Bos were less racist towards Ghoul at least which they had Ghoul Soldiers and sent to radiation areas

[@LynetteTheMadScientist]

He’s not a nutcase. 20-yr-olds are just Like That

[@sleepyproduction7166]

What I want from an RPG, open world survival crafting game is to much and it hurts that the only ones able to even do it suffer in the writing room. I personally like being able to join every faction, even up to a point or becoming leader like in Skyrim, sure doing more as the leader would be nice. But imagine coming across an old brotherhood bunker and you are the one to start them back up again, same with Railroad. Just having the option to put them in the game or leaving it alone for those who don’t want it

[@brodyclayton7163]

I personally think that the main question line should have been the minute men fighting the slavers and the raiders, The rail road should have been in a in an argument between two sides, one that wanted to save synth and another that wanted to save slaves. And the BoS and the Institute should just be fighting between each other.

[@TheArchaos]

I'm at the point in life where I will take anything, absolutely anything, other than the Brotherhood of Tincans.

[@dreamingflurry2729]

Well, I'd love new factions - I mean I doubt that the BoS was the only surviving military unit! Give us others who survived over the years and know their way around tech - maybe even a faction that truly innovates (not just humanoid-bots and bad laser-weapons!)...

[@evil1st]

Yea none of us want the same old factions again but also Fallout always sticks to tradition. A good idea for Fallout 5 should be based in Texas but without the brotherhood. Doesnt make sense at first because the brotherhood controls most of Texas but if Bethesda could create a new faction based on wild west cowboys or maybe like a New Texas Republic like the NCR. I think it could work. Maybe with the Brotherhood as just a side faction or only spoken of and not actually physically in the game, but yea Fallout and BOS is getting tired. I dont even like the faction itself personally.

[@SwedishEmpire1700]

@@evil1st Bro you just know Super Mutants, BoS, the Institute, Enclave and heck why not NCR and Minutemen will be there. Gotta milk 'em all

[@Umbra_Ursus]

Eh, credit to them. Even Lyonshood was better than the Institue or Elijah. That's a *very* low bar, yes, but what can you do.

[@dreamingflurry2729]

@@evil1st I like them (well, the Lyon's BoS and even the New Vegas chapter)...but I'd like them to be a side faction (hell, maybe even one that would be beaten back without the player's aid - which they'll repay with say a Power Armor and access to their weapons) or maybe even something people have only heard about (maybe we'll only find dead scouts or something at places that contain high tech or at old military bases)

[@BlueBD]

I am a Brotherhood fan and even have My own Exile Brotherhood Faction, yet I Really hate how the Brotherhood is Constantly included into everything. Stop added them to every scenario.

[@SwedishEmpire1700]

**sounds of Todd 'n Pete working hard shoe-hornin'**

[@elcoshayuyodrsimi3000]

honestly the brotherhood works best when they're included in a smaller scale instead of a center attraction of the game like they where used in 3 and 4

[@Spark_Chaser]

The idea I have is a major rework of the factions, building a bit on what you've done here. The Gunners could have been a possible fourth faction. Making them into something akin to Caesar's Legion and being used as the "Despot" option. You join them and become dictator of the Commonwealth, and a dark reflection of the Minutemen faction. You're building settlements for them as training bases to further expand their, and eventually your, iron grasp on the Commonwealth, and wiping out the others to take absolute control of things. With the Minuteman story you mentioned, you can give a lot of Danse's "I'm a Synth" revelation to Sturges, if you side with the Hard-Liner faction, and make it a development tree moment for settlements. Sturges, being a tinkerer, could give you access to Verti-birds if you side with keeping Garvey, or giving you access to artillery if you don't. Keeping Sturgis could also influence the NPCs in the game to relax their views on Synths that have shown they aren't trying to just murder everyone. This would be really useful if you could unite some of the major factions together. I could see the Railroad and Minutemen coming together, especially if you sway the Minutemen towards a "Synths aren't a threat" mentality. I like what you have for the Railroad here. I was tempted to bump the Railroad down to secondary recruitable faction for the Minutemen as well, but what you've given sounds like a more usable idea for them. Having them work toward a united Government of the Big Three, with them working as an intelligence arm, would make for a good story. If Bethesda was able to make the major factions allies, bringing the Minutemen in as the Army would also work here. Expanding the Institute story like you did is also a good idea. The infighting of the Departments having some kind of cohesive story would make them feel less like mustache twirling evil scientists and more like a mismanaged faction without a strong leader. Having you put your foot down with them and make them unite and go in a unified direction would make them feel like a more credible threat. I like the idea of making the BoS a minor faction for the game. Having Danse be the leader of a secondary faction that can remain independent of the rest, or even brought on as a group to work with the Minutemen or the Gunners would be a good use for them. It gives you all of their radiant quests that they have, and a possible access to some fun bits of tech down the road. What they did with Maxon and the Prydwen is a slap in the face of what you may have done in Fallout 3, as they kill off Lyon's Pryde offscreen, and destroy all your work in the Capitol Wastes to make that airship. Making a DLC where the Airship and Maxon show up from elsewhere could make for an interesting story to tie Danse in, and then have him have a question of "who does he side with now?" be a compelling story.

[@hanzzel6086]

I mean, they could have fixed the origins just by changing/adding the terminals and a bit of dialogue. Have Maxim grow increasingly radical and prideful (something Elder Lyons mentions he was already afraid would happen/was happening), while also gaining popularity through his various feats/views/charisma. Culminating in bringing most/all the remaining Enclave/Outcasts into the BoS. Who naturally clash with the more moderate/former wastelander members. Of course the Lyons are very wary and worried about all of this (with Sarah also getting increasingly tired of Maxims attempted affections), and they start looking for ways to get rid of them to prevent another schism. Leading to the construction of the Prydwen.Then one of the Lyons gets killed during a botched Synth replacement attempt. This causes the entire BoS to collectively flip their shit, a machine trying to take the place of their leaders/loved ones? They aren't going to take well to that. So Maxim and a force consisting mostly of Maxim's followers (so mostly former Outcasts and Enclave) gets sent as an advance force to the Commonwealth to scout out the Institute and set up a FOB (forward operating base), in the hope they either mellow out or mostly die. Meanwhile the main ground/naval force makes is making their way to the CW, while securing supply lines and the like.

[@boxylemons7961]

I love that idea. Fuck yeah to the faction where I get to be an evil asshole lol

[@silverblade357]

Those are some pretty solid ideas. Personally. I've always maintained that the Railroad should have been, at least mostly, liberated synths. That'd give a good answer to the classic "What about normal slavery?" complaint against them. It'd make sense if everyone in the main group besides Tinker Tom was a synth fighting for their people. I don't buy that there wouldn't be way more synths wanting to join the resistance. It'd also help explain all the sleeper agents they've got scattered around.

[@142doddy]

I prefer the Gunners as being true neutral, not hungry for control over anything, but scrape up enough caps and you can pay them to move on any other faction

[@davidprovan2756]

The railroad should be more undercover stealthy operations the minute men are a bit more of the military and the Institute to be honest is okay, they just need to be a bit more coherent, and maybe a bit more emphasis on recovering all technology to be replicated

[@ZeroFighter]

17:10 It's actually already in the game. If you side with the Minutemen against the Brotherhood of Steel, it leads to a battle against the Boston Airport and Prydwen. Mortars lob artillery at the Prydwen, blasting it out of the sky. Following that, a few vertibirds attack the Castle, and after fending them off, the battle is won. A few days later, if you talk to Garvey, he'll say that they recovered some of the Brotherhood's crashed vertibirds, repaired some, and learned to fly them. He'll then hand you some Minutemen Vertibird Signal Grenades, and tell you that they function exactly how the Brotherhood's signal grenades did, but it'll be the Minutemen showing up, meaning that through a single faction (the Minutemen), you'll get Artillery and Vertibird grenades, and since you can side with the Institute and Minutemen together, you can also get Synth Relay Grenades too by doing this, provided you get the mission to destroy the Brotherhood from Garvey, not from Shaun.

[@ArcticPenguin17]

I’ve had a very similar idea. I suggested replacing the Brotherhood with the Gunners. When I suggested this on Reddit though people really didn’t like it…..

[@afive3058]

Well it's reddit, soooo, figures. Honestly that's kinda good idea. Having two "evil" factions and two "good" factions seems like a cool idea to me.

[@PAINBODEE]

@@afive3058the brotherhood are evil tho

[@alaeriia01]

​@@afive3058Reddit has a hardon for the Brotherhood of Steel for reasons unclear to anyone.

[@TheColosiss]

The gunners make sense. It would take talent to write then correctly and flesh them out; but it would add world depth.

[@judgedrekk2981]

cus the gunners are evil, if they were made as an actual faction we'd join they'd be less evil also this isn't skyrim, who wants to join a raider group who ruined the minutemen and destroyed a town?? or many towns and just murder people without end?? the empire in skyrim tries to kill the hero and is stopped then ends up recruiting the hero depending on choices, we can also join the rebels point is we as players know the empire isn;t evil, they're no worse than the railroad, minutemen or BOS.... pillage and kill vs 1 person ended up at the headman's block with a bunch of rebels by accident? and accidents like that happen in wars, guy crosses a river or border too close to rebel action, patrols arrest the person ad they end up killed cus the only reason they'd cross is if they were the enemy?

[@BasuraAleatoria]

No amount of time or extra effort would have led to improvements with someone like Emil as writing director.

[@MediumRareOpinions]

Yeah, the guy who said "why bother" with complex stories because players don't care.

[@chipremel8594]

It should have been the enclave survivors from f3, they should have been a joinable faction too.

[@chrischin_94]

They became Enclave lite

[@azeria1]

​@@chrischin_94I mean lore wise it makes sense what do you think they would do with tones of power armour trained individuals who fragged they own officers or officers who fragged they own troops

[@half55-qo1tq]

@@azeria1 I don't see a reason for them to be in conflict with institute or railroad. How would their appearance escalate the conflict?

[@Zathurious]

My frustration with the main factions manifested by me leading the raiders take the Commonwealth. The Brotherhood of Steel is the most cohesive faction and Maxson is a real hottie. The only reason I don't usually side with them is because they make me kill Danse. If I could romance Maxson instead, I'd probably side with them every time. I suppose if the other factions were more interesting, I wouldn't have missed the Brotherhood either. And your ideas about improving the Minute Men sound really good.

[@VaultMAN-xn4dv]

The institute are the bad guys fuck the railroad and the minute men are people who wear rags and use trash weapons the brother hood of steel is one of the reasons I love fallout 4

[@skywise001]

Man imagine if the institute - if you made them warlike - built their own giant death robot and airship and you got to level their foes in it?

[@Zanemob]

So just The Enclave again?

[@shorewall]

@@Zanemob The Enclave you can join!

[@noodlespoo]

The Children of Atom could've been an interesting major faction. With the goal of expanding the Glowing Sea and bringing Atom's glow to Boston and beyond. Key plot points would've been getting the warheads from the silo, commandeering the Chinese sub and maybe organizing a revolt among the ghouls of Goodneighbor. Also Virgil would've played a bigger role.

[@RorikH]

Or swap the Children at the crater for more smart super mutants like Virgil, who fled to a place humans couldn't follow rather than become violent killers.

[@DiscardLogic]

Out of the 4 factions, if I could strip one out it would be the Railroad. I'd keep the Brotherhood for the glass earth stance on the Institute. While adding what the Railroad is into the Minutemen by recruiting the old Railroad members that survive the previous Institute attack. Have those members become a black ops unit within in the Minutemen that act like early warning for settlement attacks, rescuing Institute defectors, etc. I'd also make it so that as the Minutemen grow in strength, the Sole Survivor can steadily lessen their need to personally save settlements. Instead acting like a leader and assigning settlers from nearby settlements to respond to the one in need. Hell, at least then I could assign certain settlers to guard in the extra power armor I have laying around and be shock troops when a settlement near them is attacked.

[@jasper_the_ghost]

Yeah! I really like this idea. Every faction has had some sort of hard knock before the survivor shows up, so why not amplify it? Every major faction is on their knees or nearly completely gone. You have to scrape together who you can and actually feel like a leader instead of a glorified errand boy. It would also make the institute more apparently threatening, by showing that the few groups opposing them have already been mostly crushed.

[@draw2death421]

I had this same idea however i feel like minutemen should join railroad instead.

[@DiscardLogic]

@@draw2death421 I don't really see the Minutemen putting synths ahead of settlers though. I could easily see someone like Preston potentially butting heads with Desdemona. Since the Railroad only care about synths and not the Commonwealth. If they joined the Minutemen, they could continue to care for and look after synths. Also helping settlements come to understand that synths aren't all evil like the Institute that made them through this joint cooperation. It could also lead to less synths needing the mind wipe if they could have a larger support structure that the Minutemen could bring with supporting settlements providing a means to blend in via sheer numbers.

[@CantusTropus]

Why would the Brotherhood glass the Institute? Aren't they supposed to want to hoard technology? Sure, destroy the synths and the synth making machinery, but there's tons of other useful stuff there!

[@DiscardLogic]

@@CantusTropus The reason I say glass is because after going into the Institute, we still blow it up. They don't even suggest not blowing up the place after eliminating all threats to claim the tech. Just "Kaboom!". I'd honestly agree that the Brotherhood should be against blowing up all the extra tech but I'm trying to keep things as they are storywise. Otherwise, we'd just go with a complete rewrite of the story in order to fix the numerous issues it has.

[@ShadowShinobi2012]

I disagree that they shouldn’t have been there but I do believe that they should’ve been either a smaller detachment OR a brand new chapter all together and more similar to the West Coast Chapters we’ve familiar with.

[@marshallscot]

The Brotherhood should be a major player in the region, but it should also be clear that their major power center is still in DC and their presence in the Commonwealth is a relatively small expeditionary force. What is the point of having a giant mobile base if you're just going to tie yourself down? They should be in the Commonwealth to advance their own technology and industrial base, nothing more and nothing less. It should be up to the player to either get rid of them, convince them to put down roots, or leave them be.

[@Thelordmagedon]

A great option would have been for the minutemen to build the Prydwen. Somewhere along he way Preston says that we need to get air support and to talk to Sturges to see if they can get a vertibird up and running, and he’s like “I’VE GOT A BETTER IDEA”

[@Destroyer_V0]

Maybe not the prydwyn, but an airship? Hell yes.

[@arcticeagle342]

Big Blue Colonial Balloon I’m picturing a Battlefield 1 scene but as a Minutemen Air Corps Side note: I really wanted to make an armour mod for the MM based on BF1 uniforms, but I have no idea how lol

[@RaphaelAmbrosiusCosteau51]

Wait imagine if we were able to convince the robots on the USS Constitution to join the Minutemen, and you know, we actually made it so their ship could fly

[@arcticeagle342]

@@RaphaelAmbrosiusCosteau51 any direction rather than just forward lol

[@Destroyer_V0]

@@RaphaelAmbrosiusCosteau51 or actually got it ocean going.

[@PunkRaider]

Honestly I would be fine if they only had the one mission with the lost patrol and Paladin Danse's expedition but leave the rest in DC. Maybe they were trying to get Dr. Li to return to Project Purity because of some issues and maybe Danse was originally from the Commonwealth so learns he is a synth after looking into his memories of the Commonwealth and how no one knows him. I hate Maxson and his BoS. Railroad should be smaller and Minutemen should have been more like the Commonwealth Provisional Government and having each settlement meet up to discuss and deal with The Institute problem. Give the other settlements more nuance and depth. Have Hancock and McDonough come into conflict, McDonough being found out as an institute infiltration unit and an acceleration to dealing with The Institute. Would have been much cooler to have each settlement have more personality. Also give it several different options for how to direct the Minutemen depending on how you handle things, who in the Commonwealth settlements you side with ideology wise.

[@tbotalpha8133]

I dearly want one of these "choose who to side with" RPGs to give me a chance to hold a political summit, and seriously try to unite people into a coherent, independent polity. It's what I wish the New Vegas Yes-Man ending could have been.

[@steveharrison76]

To be honest, what you’ve written is better, more nuanced and more compelling than what we got. Good work, boss. I like it a lot.

[@shadenox8164]

Railroad is already tiny, not sure why you would want it to be even smaller.

[@hanzzel6086]

​@@shadenox8164I agree, if anything it should have been much, much larger. But the number of people the SS is in direct/consistent contact with should have been tiny, it is supposed to have high cellular division with heavy isolation between cells after all

[@RodBlanc]

Danse and the brotherhood could be just what they are at the start of the game before the prydwen arrive. A small chapter on the commonwealth, Danse still being a companion and the revalation that he is a synth make him go on the run, giving us the same eding where, instead of Maxson, we could have rhys or haylen deciding if they should kill him or not

[@Destroyer_V0]

Most likely Rhys, given haylen's own opinions on the matter.

[@dalekrenegade2596]

No, no chapter. Keep it an expeditionary force with greater number than Danae's group, we can keep most of the names BOS characters, all them under the command of Maxson who is NOT the Elder of the chapter in this scenario.

[@kristopherruiz7644]

I think we have to unfortunately suspect Skyrim is to blame, think about it. How many people played their first fallout game (myself included) for the first time because of Skyrim, I'm sure Bethesda wanted to use that opportunity to introduce new players to the poster boy.

[@FlyEaglesFly101]

What’s sad is there the only decently written faction and I think that’s because Bethesda cared more about developing them then the actual cool and unique new factions like the railroad.

[@Mathulhu172]

A lot of what the Brotherhood added to the game could have been provided by the Gunners, assuming the Cambridge group are kept of course. The anti-synth sentiment, the vertibird travel, the feeling of someone muscling in on the communities, a militant competitor with the Minute Men, the only things I think they couldn't have done is the set pieces with the Prydwyn and Liberty Prime. I wonder if the Brotherhood were an early part of development. The designers making familiar things in the new engine to prove they can and then later get used because they are already there when time constraints start to bite.

[@Acirno]

The Prydwyn and Liberty Prime were not needed, We already had Prime and the Prydwyn didn't actually do anything but look pretty. I personally think they started running out of ideas and then doubled down on the settlement system as an after thought, leaving most of the factions unfinished. I always thought that Bethesda was best at set design, not story and quest design. Obsidian being the better at story and quest, but not set design.

[@jacobcrowley1675]

Considering the "Assault rifle" was made to be used in power armour I would assume that Bethesda started with The Brotherhood

[@chadnorris8257]

I would have liked to see the factions more fleshed out. The Minutemen questline needs to be longer, and encompass some actual end goals outside of retaking a fort. Honestly I'd rather we have taken Fort Hagen as the new MM HQ, rather than a half destroyed Fort Independence. It's at least on the same side of the map as the other settlements I usually take in the beginning. I wish that the Railroad was a stronger faction, so they didn't feel so inept at their goals. I guess devs just love it when the good guys are the underdogs, such that the two noble factions are on their last legs by the time you join in. The Institute needs some firmer goals, and something that makes me think they're sympathetic at all. Either that or just stop pretending they have any good intentions for Humanity. Real Humanity, not just whatever they plan to redefine it as. Most of the things we get from the Brotherhood could probably be done just fine with the Gunners. Their story would probably just revolve around the mercenary life, instead of the destruction of abominations.

[@TheDoomDonkey]

This is something I have felt ever since I first played Fallout 4 back on release. Don't get me wrong, the introduction of the Prydwyn was awesome, but as someone that always delays doing the main quest in Bethesda Games, I had done the majority of what you could do in fallout 4 without going to kill Kellogg, and I felt that experience of the Brotherhood was great, as you said in this video, they still had a bunch of quests, but they were a footnote. When the Brotherhood somehow showed up in this world that I had already fully explored, I was kinda like 'Did they really have to do the brotherhood card again?' as it felt like they couldn't just go away from Fallout 3. (which also as you said, I too like fallout 3, but the BoS had their time in the sun). All this said, I am an Institute advocate, simply because you do become their leader in the end, so the ideas that you put forth here have always been my headcanon for the post fallout 4 timeline, that the Sole Survivor would direct the Institute in a better way depending on your own RP, sorta letting you write your own true ending. That said, after having gone through the game multiple times, as well as hearing other peoples opinions on the matter. Having those decisions made by the player, in game, with shown, tangible changes would've been so much better. Also with the idea of the Gunners being expanded, it was ALMOST there with Nuka Worlds DLC and the Raiders, as being a perfect antithesis to the Minutemen. It would've been nice if there was a more complete clash between the 2, instead of Garvey just being like 'wow how could you? go kill them before you talk to me.' But I did love the addition of a more true evil way of playing the game, and something that felt natural in the Fallout world. What I would've loved with it though, is since they made the raiders as the anti-minutemen, they could've been an offshoot way to do the actual main quest. Where the idea of attacking the institute isn't based in some moral high ground, but the fact they would have a whole lot of valuable loot. And would make an insane base of operations for the new Strongest Raiders in the wasteland. (Raiders with Teleporters anyone?) This comment went a bit outta control, but hey, Its something I feel pretty strongly about and it was good to let a bit of a rant out.

[@isaacgorski6054]

This was fantastic. I think that the minute men should have been able to join forces with the railroad if the player chose to build the minute men up more. Eventually leading to the same result of the railroad, taking control of the Institute, but a combined force that actually fixes the Commonwealth.

[@oldnjoyer]

I think that without the Brotherhood, I would have never gotten into fallout 4, so I wouldn't even be a part of this community

[@JaceMorley]

My headcanon is they (knowingly but covertly, or somehow unknowingly) absorbed the remnants of the Enclave from Fallout 3 and so their size and scope and more openly imperialistic attitude is basically a result of having their own shadow cabal of Enclave and Enclave-influenced BoS inside them.

[@want2killu]

hegelian dialectics as understood by caeser. neat

[@reddeaddude2187]

True. The thesis and antithesis merge to become the synthesis. The weaknesses of both are eliminated leaving only the strengths.

[@CptVargas70]

Heil Hydra

[@Umbra_Ursus]

I think it's more down to the Lyonshood members (Macho morons that badly play at being the heroes) being silently overwritten by the traditionalist Outcasts (Who actually just wanted to do the BOS's job). Well I've no doubt some Enclave members may have gone turncoat and joined Lyonshood (Outcasts don't play that way), the likeliest case is the Outcasts managed to turn Maxson to their way of thinking, and being a dumb kid, he warped "Collect tech first and foremost" to "Purge non-humans and burn non-BOS tech". Seriously, the moment Maxson said "Let's burn the literal goldmine of tech that's on par, if not beyond the Enclave, to ash", there should have been a rebellion right then and there (Backed up with Vegas stating an Elder was kicked out for that same offence). Hating synths doesn't even line up with the BOS, since the Outcasts used robobrains.

[@Cauceboi]

I don’t think what happens with the Brotherhood of Steel in Fallout 4 is out of character for them at all, even for this chapter (see; The Scourge of The Pitt)

[@JTL1776]

The Lost Patrol. And paladin danse and his recon team. Should have been the main parts of The BOS storyline. Adding some more yes like the CSEP Brothers in arms. But the Creation Club Capital wasteland should have been FAR HARBOR SIZED DLC where post game the sole survivor and the chosen faction can become allies or enemies of the BOS depending on your choices in game.

[@arandomfatbloke3352]

My usual playthrough has me siding with BoS, but still building up the Minutemen as well. My headcanon is that my character is trying to bring about a more peaceful Commonwealth for everyone. The Minutemen become more of a police force, and in time, will begin a government of sorts. Being a high ranked BoS member, I have some sway over the Brotherhood, and they somewhat become the "army" of the new Commonwealth, setting up a permanent base within the airport. Minutemen become the civilian arm, BoS become the military arm, and a faction to rival the NCR/Legion is born.

[@arcticeagle342]

That is if the BoS don’t drain the farms further, & do their own labour to contribute.

[@eol6632]

Meh, I'm all set with pushy fascist's with a tech hoarding hobby. If I'm breaking my ass, culling raiders, gunners, super mutants and putting the institute in its place. An setting up safe refuge for settlers I'm not handing the commonwealth to a whole new set of oppressive assholes. Besides it's fun watching that floating bad idea burn.

[@leonrussell9607]

​@@arcticeagle342the fighting and research the brotherhood do is the labour, the minutemen should build up the farms and the commonwealth would thrive

[@arcticeagle342]

@@leonrussell9607 Nobody should just get to show up & say “we fight for you now, give us your stuff” Sounds like something a raider would say, which is fitting actually, in the case of traditional BoS

[@robtaylor621]

Enclave here. WHAT ARE YOU DOING OUT OF UNIFORM!?! WHERE IS YOUR POWER ARMOR!?

[@KristopherPrime]

Honestly, I’m just happy they are finally joinable. Every other time, they are either nearly absent or only prominent in the capacity like the Empire is for elder scrolls Oblivion. You befriend them, but don’t exactly join them. In new Vegas, they have so little content, and what they do have: you only “join” after their content is done. In 4, I feel like am actually part of the brotherhood for once. And much like other major faction quests in fallout or elder scrolls, I do a decent amount of work with them as a member.

[@gigagian]

I think the Brotherhood coming to the Boston area would have made an interesting post game DLC as the game's new primary antagonists. Just imagine how it would feel to have them flying in like big damn heroes ready to tear down everything you worked so hard to accomplish. Depending on what faction you backed through the main story line they could come off as A) Genocidal Fanatics B) Misguided/Disingenuous Invaders C) The Commonwealth's Last Best Hope.

[@LoveProWrestling]

The Atom Cats were considered for a full faction, but for some reason they got scaled back. I think the idea of having Four factions in Fallout 4, is just to payoff the number 4. Create the new factions, and add well known icon BOS to make a total of four.

[@CantusTropus]

The Atom Cats would have been an interesting way to get their Mandatory Power Armour Faction fix while avoiding further overuse of the BoS. Though the Atom Cats' very existence makes all those random power armour suits standing out in the open even less plausible, since they REALLY should have just scavenged them by now.

[@josephmartins8882]

I think the fact there is no quest or conflict involving the Atom Cats and the BoS highlights the lack of interaction between the games factions. Brotherhood is all about seizing dangerous tech from people they believe don’t deserve it. There is a whole garage full of greasers strutting about in power armor like they’re muscle cars. They are the exact thing the brotherhood is all about stopping, they would view the cats as childish thugs who have no respect for the tech they’re misusing. It would make for an interesting choice for the player and show off the brotherhoods aggressive tech hoarding which has already been their MO.

[@erickrasniewski567]

I think the FO4 had 4 factions was because FNV had 4 factions each faction I have feeling was supposed to represent a possible FNV choice or option -Yes man is the minuteman -House maybe would be the Railroad >NCR is BOS as its the returning faction >Institute is legion as both have done morally evil things and continue to see slavery by Legion and abduction by institute

[@jinxed-fr]

this hypothetical railroad is my new headcannon

[@adrianw.8410]

the gunners as fo4 “legion” would be a cool idea

[@anthonyparsch]

I think the Zetans need their time in the sun as a major faction... For real, as much as I love the Brotherhood of Steel, I agree that not much would have been lost if the Prydwen and its NPCs were saved for a DLC, and the dev time spent on them was spent reinforcing the new factions of Fallout 4. Though, that might come from the fact that my entry into the series was Fallout New Vegas, where gaining access to power armor was locked behind a slow burn quest line of befriending this minor faction that wanted nothing to do with the Courier. That, and Veronica is to this day my favorite Fallout companion.

[@Darksoul9669]

I think the railroad and minute men were especially missing larger/more intricate bases/set pieces too which made them feel so much less than the brotherhood or institute. Really sad because both have so much potential for way more theming and larger stories.

[@dalekrenegade2596]

Good video. I would like to put out my own take for the Brotherhood of Steel working with what you said in here. -Keep them an expeditionary force( bigger than Danse's squad in the based game but smaller than new vegas in terms of numbers). The rest of the chapter is in. DC. - Their mission is to investigate the rumors of the Institute and the usual collection of technology. They had little opinion of the Institute but that can change with the game's progress snd the player's input. - Have them still be led by Maxson, he's not the elder here though but he gets to keephis awesome coat. Sarah Lyons would be the confirmed Elder of the chapter at large. - Keep Danse's role the same as in the based game. - Have them be a source for many technological upgrades from weapons, settlement plans, and power armor. The more you help them the better the upgrades. For example you can get better power armor training, thus you get more efficient usage and upgrades for your suit. - Radiant quests can include the usual data collection but also include actual weapons and armor schematics, and even delivering suits of power armor to them for extra caps. - They can be convinced to aid whatever faction you choose the side with by the end of the game. The other factions can be swayed by the Brotherhood's ideas or vice versa. Example: Have the Institute follow a Brotherhood mindset under new leadership. What do you guys think?

[@Azrenthe1stHighKing]

Yeah, Bethesda can't come up with Original Things they always Lean on older stuff because they are afraid of changing the IP.

[@papasmoke2982]

Great video! An idea I see working well with your approach to a diminished brotherhood is including Brandis into the reveal that Danse is a synth. First the lost patrol background would be slightly retconned that his recon group was also attacked by synths contributing to his trauma. Once Danse is revealed to be a synth, it would undo Brandis’ healing from the trauma and reopen his distrust of the brotherhood. Brandis would now act much like Elder Maxson during the sense reveal but with the added background to make a more intense moral dilemma.

[@Chuckfng]

16:50 the minutemen being defeated could have been used as cool quests for the player, like using the players skills to train them to a proper fighting force and maybe finding a cache of better weapons somewhere

[@sergeantsapient]

Bethesda acquired an IP that they only superficially understand. I think they saw the BoS as a mostly benevolent faction in FO 1 and 2, so it was easy to kind of make them the blatant "good guys" in FO3. In FO4 they tried to make the faction more morally nuanced to kind of throw back to the original topdown games but i feel they missed the mark by a lot.

[@BrianMarshall1]

In FO3 they had the outcasts so they knew. It was fan service though. The BOS probably would all be long gone and never made it that far east

[@klaykid117]

To be fair to Bethesda, interplay was also guilty of this They had a game called fallout brotherhood of steel tactics and a game just called fallout brotherhood of steel

[@danpaz9485]

Though I think thats cause they wanted to reach the mainstream market with action styled games and consoles. It did kinda backfire though.

[@Umbra_Ursus]

3 had more understanding that it's given credit for: 1. Lyonshood are a bunch of macho meatheads that still hate non-humans, despite their supposed heroics. Lyons himself seems to be a senile old fool that wants to play the hero, possibly to ease some old guilt for how they operated before, but he's dragging the whole chapter down. 20 years with no progress against their sole enemy, having effectively ditched the BOS to act as his own splinter faction, and forcing them to work as ineffectively and stupidly as possible (Broken Steel beats that point home, and hard). 2. The Outcasts are the real Brotherhood, pure and simple. Dislike but not unwilling to work with wastelanders, just want to collect and process tech, purely business motivated, etc.... Honestly, they're a better depiction than 4's. 3. Ashur spells out that the BOS are lazy tech hoarders that, pure and simple, have literally no higher goals than hoarding tech and fighting everyone else. Veronica echos this thought in Vegas no less, and it's further proven by 4 being Enclave-lite. Really looking at Bethesda's work, they've yet to depict the Brotherhood of Steel in a truly positive light.

[@sergeantsapient]

@@Umbra_Ursus I get what you're saying but I feel like the game railroads you into siding with the brotherhood of steel if you want to play a good character. The game treated them like the canonical good guys and I feel like that's where it romanticizes them more than it should have. I know you have the outcast and it's been a long time since I've played fallout 3 so maybe their role was bigger than I remember but the only thing I remember about the outcast is that you could turn in scrap metal to them for supplies (I think they were also the same faction that you go to for the operation. Anchorage DLC but again it's been a long time).

[@DoubleZedd6]

I played Fallout 4 before 3(only because I couldn't get 3 to run at the time) and the brotherhood's entrance and Nick qouting Poe, was and is the emotional defining moment for me. Everything after was ancillary. Great, well thought out video though!

[@orange-y5e]

Personally, I think the Enclave would be really cool, and especially with America Rising it is really fun to join the Enclave(and you get cool stuff :D)

[@RenegadeReese]

The brotherhood makes much more sense as a main faction than the railroad. The railroad has literally nothing going for it.

[@aurorasofia1723]

I agree. The brotherhood should have been a much smaller part and focus put on fleshing out the new factions more. Been a while since I last played through it, but honestly, I couldn't come up with any other detail that was impactfull from the Brotherhood apart from Paladin Danse's personal quest. But that could have been done through an event as with Cait. You'd find Danse fighting the ghouls and decide to help out. Turns out he's the only survivor of his scoutgroup after something went terrible wrong. Now you can get him as a follower, unlocking the quest to help him find what he was looking for. And as you keep him with you his hate towards synths shows more and more. And as you said, you get a scanner from both Minutemen and Railroad so need for the entire brotherhood to be there. "Liberty Prime's presence and use as a weapon against the Institute is another thing that wouldn't make any sense under any other context other than the Brotherhood of Steel" Maby P.A.M could have helped the Railroad locate it? Would make sense ti me. But I agree, it was the final part of the main quest in Fallout 3, so it just felt like (as you said) a rehersal of sorts. "The Brotherhood hates the Institute, but what if the player was given the opportunity to steer the Minutemen in that direction" My thoughts exactly. And what you describe with an "anti Garvey" is precisly what I had in mind aswell. And if you really wanted to make a statement, you could convince them to take down the Railroad aswell. This making some of the settelers leave, thinking you've crossed a line. Same thing the other way around. If you decide to go with Garvey, some of the "haters" would leave your settlements. It would have made things so much more interessting, and made your choises more impactfull. All the improvements you talk about are also great! I could really imagine it doing a lot from those small kind of things. Still skeptical about a good laser tough ;) Great job!

[@Dubs7ep_Panda]

It's an intersting thought for sure. But I think I would've preferred an option that allowed the Sole Survivor to negotiate piece between all 4 factions after becoming high ranking or leaders of each. Especially because they all have qualities that would make rebuilding the Commonwealth properly. The Institute could use it's expertise to get power working across the region, while using Gen 1 and 2 synths as cheap, labor to clean up and fix all the ruined/destroyed buildings. The Minutemen could function as a Police force, setting up in some of the old Police buildings and responding to small issues like Raids, or Ghoul infestations around rebuilt towns. The Brotherhood and Railroad could work together as a military force, with a functional intelligence agency for local or external security. As well as being available to deal with Larger threats to towns, like Super Mutants or Deathclaws. A united Commonwealth would've been an amazing choice for an ending. and It's a shame they couldn't implement it

[@arcticeagle342]

I like it but I think the MM would have to take the role of military & police on the side, because I don’t see the BoS working for anyone who isn’t themselves, if this did happen, I imagine they’d be the kind to have slip ups like calling it all “The Brotherhood” & then the other factions being like “Hey um.. we’re here too, you know.” The BoS doesn’t really play nice with others.

[@simpsondr12]

If you go with the minutemen, you can still be allies with the BoS and the Railroad, which makes sense. No one else would work together. Like to nitpick "using Gen 1 and 2 synths as cheap labor", no one else would allow that. I get the idea of having this perfect ending, but also I hate it, everyone would just do that ending, and it would make entire factions that have very strong views change, simply because of the player, who has no reason to be that special.

[@arcticeagle342]

@@simpsondr12 This would also mean that the MM would have to be the ones producing the G1s & G2s because The Institute can’t do that as a crater (which seems inevitable, the Minutemen need to stop the Institute from kidnapping, & have to answer for making super mutants) If they let all of that go to work together, I feel like there’s a massive missed point.

[@ZachariahJ]

I'm replaying it right now - well over 100 hours in, and I've just started the main quest! Done some stuff for the Railway, and for the BoS. I put off the Minutemen, but last night I tried speaking to Preston, and said I'd be the General. Within 10 mins, I'd been flooded with requests from settlements needing my help, so I went back to an earlier save - I'll play through without joining the Minutemen. I'll help the settlements I choose, thank you very much! But talking about the BoS - recently I was walking around Boston (I think I was doing a Randolph House quest), and a Vertibird crashed from the sky in front of me, in flames. Then exploded. But I saw Danse later, and he never mentioned it. What was that all about? And why is there shooting all the time in the background since I went past Level 45?

[@maksymovcharov6885]

I wish Fallout 4 had the ability to change faction directions, at least at the DLC level. I would like to be able to reconcile these factions, to put them on the path of cooperation, at least a small chance, as the director of the Institute and the general of the Minutemen. Just imagine how you arrange a battle with the representatives of these factions, and if you succeed, the Institute, for example, supplies the Minutemen with high-tech equipment for their needs, and they in return help to improve the reputation of the Institute, then after some time and a few quests you will have the opportunity to start a new high-tech settlement (something like vault 88 in terms of special structures that can only be placed there), which will be the beginning of a full-fledged revival of civilization.

[@CantusTropus]

This is the same company that created Skyrim, where you can become the leader of very nearly every single major organisation in the game, and yet have almost zero power within any of them.

[@khm6585]

The BOS had the biggest and best chance to obtain never seen technology in the Institute but all they did was blow the entire area up because they are "abomination". It's like their entire goal in this game is to take land more than preserve technology like in past game. Making their entire foundation meaningless. Why even call themselves BOS for? Just make a new faction, use the same Power armor but put different flag on it.

[@AHolyPaladin]

The issue isn’t the Brotherhood in Fallout 4 - the issue is the whole Synth plotline. If the Brotherhood of Steel focused more about the Super Mutants (which would literally tied in with the Institute - for obvious reasons)) would make more sense. I really liked how close to the original goals/tenets the Brotherhood in Fallout 3 was - in 4 they seem too, brash (?) The Airship? It's fine. There was actually going to be 2 Brotherhood Airships (Concept art i believe) A missed opportunity in 4; is the inclusion of Vertibird dogfights! Imagine a squadron of Brotherhood Vertibirds vs Gunner Vertibirds! Railroad? Too damn small to be a main faction. Would've been better if they became part of the Minutemen as a intelligence agency/Spec Ops unit. Another missed, MISSED opportunity is the inclusion of a U.S. Army revived faction. When i first saw the Fallout 4 trailer in 2015, i immediately thought it was going to be a US Army unit that was Cryo frozen. I mean, it would have been amazing as a plotline. I mean the Sole Survivor not being the only Cryo frozen Pre-War survivor isn't out of the question (Mothership Zeta for example) - a military Vault is what i'm getting at. Obviously completely cutting the Brotherhood from Fallout 4 is out of the question. Just making them have an actual impact with the other factions rather than being one sided would have been great.

[@g_y.rtz420]

You sound like a bethesda only fallout wow your ideas are so childish

[@sophisthemlock246]

@@g_y.rtz420 They aren't too bad, the gunners do have vertibirds, the railroad is oddly small compared to the others (though they should be distinct from the minutemen), and a US Army vault; maybe controlled by the Enclave would actually be interesting

[@g_y.rtz420]

@@sophisthemlock246 why i dont like it is: 1. supermutants. The FEV is tied to the institute because bethesda FORCED it into the storyline. Not only is the real lore of FEV already on fo1, but that's the main plot of it as well. They already forced the enclave into the story in fo3 and bos in 3 and 4. I share hbomberguy's sentiment to bethesda handling fallout, they should focused on what they could ADD into the world of fallout, not extracting everything that worked previously and constantly zombiefying elements that made it good before. On that note: 2. The synth idea isnt bad on its own, and proof of that is the Far Harbor DLC. They don't need to lean on supermutants, they can make a good storyline with synths, and they have. The synth stories themselves can be interesting, like the synth mother living with her institute family. I think it's just synth shaun that left a bad impression, and that understandable, but Far Harbor man. I want more of THAT. 3. Vertibird dogfights sounds like fallout meets CoD. Fallout the Frontier already did that, and it was legendary. Not for good reasons. It sounds like EPIC BOSS FIGHT that fallout 4 leans on, like the intro deathclaw sequence. Epic but doesnt tie in to anything, and feels tedious on subsequent playthroughs. VErtibird AI is already terrible in the first place, they wouldnt have had time to make that work well, just another forced, disconnected inclusion. 4. Another US military idea. Both Fo2 and 3 had the enclave. This is too much. FNV focused on the new forms of governments rising, the NCR, legion, and house. Cryo frozen government? This is why i said it's childish. It's like another idea that belongs to the Frontier. I hate the notion that the BoS HAD to be in fo4. I agree with the others in that they could be a small unit like just Danse's recon team. That way they could still be used for marketing (the main reason bethesda keeps banking on them), without having to make them a main faction. I know bethesda essentially wrote a new version of the BoS for fo4 and thats why a lot of fans love them, but it's too safe and too stale. Please don't hate me, I do still love fallout 4, I'm like this because I want fallout 5 to be good. Like AT LEAST Far Harbor good. That DLC didnt need the BoS and it was great. Plus they trusted on their synth idea and incorporated it well into the world of fallout. That's what I want for fallout. Not more CoD-ification of the franchise.

[@curlyfordoge4366]

I don't like the idea of a U.S. Army remnant. I generally don't really like any "what if survives and tries to restore TRUE NATIONAL GOVERNMENT" style faction suggestions, really.

[@simpsondr12]

​@@curlyfordoge4366Well both the BoS and Enclave are the descendants of the military, but I think the point being made was more about marketing of the game and how the Sole Survivor is a military vet. Honestly I'm surprised at how few references there are to it in the game.

[@JohnSmith-tg9wc]

The raiders in Fallouit 4 were a lot more fleshed out than in the other titles. It would've been cool if you were able to join them and take over the Commonwealth that way.

[@Akwooks]

You sort of can with the Nuka world dlc.

[@arcticeagle342]

I find it hard to imagine a lawyer or an ex-army commando becoming raiders without having to live the 200 years to get to that point, though. But.. maybe?

[@mandalore_the_Jacked]

I always thought the 4th faction should have been an evil faction to the Minutemen and Railroad’s good, either choosing the gunners or to flip the Brotherhood idea on its head and it’s the Outcasts that arrive in some form or fashion as an evil twisted version of the Brotherhood

[@arcticeagle342]

To be fair, the BoS in FO4 are kind of twisted if you look into them, but that’s how they were before 3, which is the game that they were different in. 3 is the game where they were the good guys (basically the BoS version of the Minutemen) & the Outcasts were the ones who were true to the old ways (the BoS in 4 being more like hardened versions of the Outcasts after they took them back in).

[@r1areone377]

Bos in FO4 are evil twisted versions already

[@joekost1038]

You already have an evil faction in Fallout 4, it's called the Institute

[@leonrussell9607]

​@@arcticeagle342the brotherhood are the good guys in fallout 4

[@arcticeagle342]

@@leonrussell9607 if “good guys” is qualified to people who do what they do for their own gain, because that’s all the FO4 BoS do under Maxon’s leadership. It’s just masked behind fancy speeches & words. Look around & you’ll see that nobody even wants them there, nobody likes them until they blow up the institute & even then they only like them a little (Goodneighbor hates them for good reason, the BoS would just blow that place up if they found it). The BoS also are as bad as the enclave with their blatant racism & superiority complex, & every situation they get into they just solve with a punch or a bomb or a laser, or threats, even extorting farms.

[@craigore2011]

It's not that it didn't make sense to have them. They were still in the pursuit of securing advanced tech, and the Institute would have been an absolute beacon.

[@nick0875]

It makes zero sense for them to blow it up that's for sure. Once their inside the underground complex it should be a simple as subduing any resistance and then the Brotherhood can deal with the Synth technology as they see fit. The rest of the Institute tech could be recovered and put to use by the Brotherhood.

[@lonewalker6916]

Really the only thing I like about the brotherhood of steel it the uniform because of the military look otherwise i just choose a different faction and forget about the bos

[@lonewalker6916]

And I also just take my power armor and repaint it with military paint

[@leminjapan]

I've never played a single Fallout game, I just enjoy the lore, but I gotta say my favourite videos are the ones where you challenge the canon and explore the what-ifs. Great video

[@TheBo0m]

The amount of thought and care you put into your videos never fails to amaze me. You've got a lot of subscribers now, but I'm sure that number will grow exponentially because of the obvious effort you put into your content. Cheers

[@blar2112]

Before watching the video: I think thet The Brotherhood of Steel should appear after destroying/joining the institute. The explosion caught their attention and they came to see. Then post game you could have some small quests from them, and then have a nice fat DLC centered about them getting hold/kicked out off of the commonwealth.

[@arcticeagle342]

I would so love to chase them out lol I think this makes a little more sense than them just showing up in full force one days because they “got some energy reading oOoOoOoo” For The Institute being such a secret faction that NOBODY in their own homeland even knew about, the BoS sure did seem to know a whole lot about them for.. no reason. So yeah, their attention being from a nuclear explosion would have made more sense.

[@leonrussell9607]

​@@arcticeagle342they sent recon teams, thats how they knew

[@arcticeagle342]

@@leonrussell9607 all but one of which died, & the only way they’d have gotten readings is if synths relayed nearby, which would mean they’d had to have been in conflict with the synths which makes me wonder why the institute didn’t just kill them too.

[@sanguinem8554]

Yeah honestly I always thought it was weird that the Brotherhood were even in the Commonwealth Edit: And especially the fact that they brought the destroyed parts of liberty prime

[@ADMONIUS]

In an alternate universe: “The Brotherhood of Steel should have been in Fallout 4.”

[@trainershade1937]

You know, I always considered it to be the case that if any factions were to get removed from F4, the Brotherhood of Steel would be the least likely... but upon being proposed the question of the video, I realized that "yeah, despite being the most fleshed out, they really don't need to be such a major faction". The Institute obviously needs to exist in the game, as they are the antagonists. Then there's the Railroad, who exists to be the Institute's original opposition since F3. Then finally, you have the Minutemen, who mostly act as a "Yes Man" equivalent. The Brotherhood really does exist as an outside force that suddenly steals the spotlight from those who are already established as being the main cast, and the focus on them 100% hindered the rest of the factions. Hell, simply taking the Brotherhood out of the spotlight alone would remove one of my biggest gripes with the Railroad, being: How they "defeat" the Brotherhood. Not only is the entire operation an absolute joke that should have failed hundreds of times over (I refuse to believe the Railroad would even set foot on the Prydwen with the method they chose), but it's also an extreme example of their lack of care towards the safety of the Commonwealth's citizens (as the Brotherhood is also the Commonwealth's best chance at dealing with the severe threats that face them).

[@Thelazybaboon-kn3dc]

My only problem is the assumption that people want to side with the railroad.i truly disagree on a fundamental level with the railroad. Not to go too deep but I'm currently in college for mechanical engineering and planning to do mechatronics later if the classes grow as promising as they seem to be. In short I want to be one of those egghead scientists making the future of robotic technology. And if the idea of self intelligent robots wasn't frightening enough, the idea of people who did not even create anything fighting to steal generations of lifetimes of work not to continue researching but to let the products "live free" and then grandstanding as morally righteous. It rubs me the wrong way ya know. At the brotherhood it's doing it for REAL security reasons not simply throwing the best chance of a new future into the trash can because "muh robot feelings"

[@trainershade1937]

@@Thelazybaboon-kn3dc I mean, yeah, there's plenty of reasons to not like the Railroad. My main point is to bring up that, for the story of Fallout 4, they are indeed one of the noteworthy factions, and it would have been nice if Bethesda at least made them consistent. They're supposed to be a secretive organization with a lot of classical spy movie inspiration. However, they ultimately just feel like a "quirky" gathering of awkward high school students who are way out of their league, doing stuff that they barely understand and SOMEHOW getting away with it.

[@Thelazybaboon-kn3dc]

@@trainershade1937 no doubt. I totally agree while I don't like the groups goal it still would be better for all fans if they were a legitimate threat, And had at least enough cohesion as a organization to maintain the suspension of disbelief. That way regardless of what choice you take there is the satisfaction of either destroying or aiding people you could at least take serious. As the base game stands right now every interaction with the group seems empty.

[@simpsondr12]

​@@Thelazybaboon-kn3dcYeah the Railroad is supposed to be this morally deep question about, well, how smart can robots get before we start treating them like humans, but... Like... They're robots. Some people really have a robot fetish, but I am not one of those people, plus the Railroad points guns at me for following the clues that they left to their hideout, so... Fuck 'em.

[@SadisticSenpai61]

There's two things the Prydwin and specifically the vertibirds bring to Fallout 4. An immersive fast travel system (one which is continued by the player's faction apparently utilizing a stolen vertibird after the end of the main quest) and the random BoS patrols. I love the immersive fast travel system that the vertibirds bring to Fallout 4. But I also tend to install a mod that gives the Minutemen vertibirds as well after they retake the Castle. I also use the Highwayman because... Well, it's very handy for moving a lot of stuff between settlements and also as a place to just drop all of your loot before running off to grab more. I do think that the game would have benefited from keeping Danse's small recon team and them getting some reinforcements/supplies after they send their distress call. All of the jobs that the player could do for them would still remain mostly the same - recon, fetch quests, and clear location quests. Maybe with an occasional large force assault on a location like that fort - and I think it would be realistic for it to be a case of a small team assaulting the fort with the player taking the lead, with the player having to do a number of quests to "prove" to Danse and the others that they know what the duck they're doing. And there could even be a mission where after you're granted access to the Institute, you're asked to retrieve some files for the BoS - which leads to the discovery that Danse is a synth. This could lead to a split among the BoS team at the Police Station. Rhys and Haylen backing Danse due to loyalty after following him through losing the rest of their recon team and the newer members from the Capitol Wasteland wanting to "put him down." Being in the minority, Danse, Rhys, and Haylen flee the Police Station and the player has to track them down and make a decision - side with Danse, Rhys, and Haylen or the new BoS arrivals. Maybe have an option to negotiate a peace between them? IDK, it would depend on exactly who the new arrivals are and whether or not their characters would be sympathetic/open to negotiation. Would Danse, Rhys, and Haylen join the Minutemen? I can't see them joining the Railroad, but if they are sufficiently alienated from the BoS, I could see them joining the Minutemen if only to serve in roles that's familiar to them - although Rhys's hatred for non-humans will likely become an issue. But that could also open up a new character development opportunity and quest line as well. Alternatively, Rhys could side with the new arrivals and turn against Danse. It would fit with the way he's portrayed in Fallout 4, I just feel like it would be a missed opportunity to keep him as 2 dimensional as he is in the game.

[@ruinedchurch]

i never comment on things but i love this video so much i felt like i needed to. you are a creative genius and i agree with all points made, esp about danse and his quests. i’d love to hear your thoughts on danse’s half baked backstory/the brotherhood’s cut content and what he could have become instead of a glitchy mess in all endings lol keep up the great videos!

[@rocketrace490]

This sounds like it could make for an AMAZING Fallout 4 overhaul Mod. Of course that may leave out PS4/5 players. But this seems plausible as a story overhaul.

[@AniMana21]

Personally, I think that the Brotherhood should have died out entirely Post New Vegas.

[@DavidSchultz-rf8bj]

I play fallout four as my own faction these days. It starts to break down at a point, but it would be interesting to have a Build Your Own commonwealth option, where bringing in the factions would create together your own state. Perhaps that is beyond the scope of computer tech. But I find it more interesting to recreate the US then have successors disunited…

[@arcticeagle342]

I feel like you just described the Minutemen, but with maybe an actual storyline.