5 Lore Secrets in Zelda Tears of the Kingdom

[@olive3749]

I found the underground mines connecting to villages and towns interesting, especially the Tarrey Town mine, since Tarrey Town is only established during the events of BOTW

[@dave_marian]

Yes you are right, Terry Town is a bit of a stretch. You could argue that there might have been a Zonai Town on that rock in the lake at some point but yeah. This is probably one of those instances where they put gameplay over story.

[@Dingleburry37]

There's an old goddess statue there in botw, meaning that it was once a settlement long ago

[@SkippytWalrus]

​@@Dingleburry37I can't confirm, since breath of the wild is no longer in my possession, but i think that goddess statue isn't there before you start the quest yeah? Suggesting it was made for or brought to tarrey town. I'm no stranger to hot takes, but after learning that the underground has valleys where there are mountains, walls where there are lakes, mines where there are towns and bargainer statues where bigger goddess statue are, it makes me feel a bad kind of way about totk. Like the underground is not as new as it seems.

[@Rafaelrgm]

@@SkippytWalrus The statues was already there. I remember finding it even before buying the house from bolson.

[@SkippytWalrus]

@@Rafaelrgm neat!

[@ZeoViolet]

To me, Link builds a brand spankin' new house in Tarrey Town not really for himself, but to give Zelda a home he feels she deserves more than the one in Hateno village. Once he gets her back, that is. His home in Hateno is a small squeeze if the Princess thinks she needs a study in the well for her alone time, and let's face it: Zelda's a scientist. She needs more room to spread out the stuff she likes to geek over, and Link can build her that if he so desires.

[@dave_marian]

It might be just me but I don't like the style of the Hudson houses XD I'd prefer Hateno.

[@ZeoViolet]

@@dave_marian To be honest, I agree with you, but we aren't allowed to enlarge the Hateno house or kick the mayor out of his on orders of the Princess _("Will you trade, Mr. Mayor?"),_ so we gotta improvise. XD

[@ryanb4940]

@@dave_marianI’d say they’re like LEGO in the way they fit together, but I actually like LEGO lol. The house style is so ugly in Tarrey Town. I honestly am hoping a DLC ends up being customization options for building your house

[@mayanightstar]

Other fans belly-aching that TotK throws out old lore from Skyward Sword but you're doing a great job tying it back in

[@dave_marian]

Thanks! Do they really? XD I think Skyward Sword makes so much sense in connection to BotW and TotK...

[@maxwellmcnarrow9732]

I think the Three Goddesses from the world creation myth of Ocarina of Time were actually Zonai from an earlier time than Rauru, they might have modified deeply the world for some purpose then ate their secret stones becoming the three dragons that flies above Hyrule, probably to protect it.

[@catharinalopes933]

it's an earlier time even than SS Link and Zelda, since the triforce itself exists in the game and Zelda/Hylia has the role to protect it.

[@reef2025]

at “zelda’s house” the table is set for two not one. she has a secret spot designed so that link cant find her there and she describes in her diary how link is always at her side. not only that in the game the only beds link can sleep at are the ones he owns and at inns but he can sleep in the bed at now zeldas house. She made a whole new tunic for link as a suprise and instead of hiding it at her house she hid it in hyrule castle because of thr fact that they share this house. they live together and theyre together nintendo is just not outwardly saying it because theyre scared lmao.

[@dave_marian]

Zelda is such a big franchise, Nintendo doesn't gain anything by declaring any kind of relationship between characters. If they keep it vague, people keep talking ;)

[@Archetype_Angel]

At link's house (BotW) the table is set for two as well.

[@reef2025]

@@Archetype_Angel Mans was just prepping for homegirl back then 😤

[@liamwhite3522]

Until we get a History of Zelda game, all the games prior are just Legends.

[@dave_marian]

You are a legend, good sir!

[@Metalders]

I always take these theories with a grain of Rock Salt.

[@dave_marian]

Goat butter helps too! ;)

[@Archetype_Angel]

Easier to swallow than a slice of dark clump

[@KevinTriforce]

Sidon mentions being related to Ruto in the new Zora Murals so OOT happened in the same timeline as Botw and Totk

[@dave_marian]

Not necessarily. That could be a completely different Ruto. The Rauru from Tears of the Kingdom is also a completely different Rauru than the one from Ocarina of Time. Just like every Timeline can have different people called Link, or Zelda.

[@dave_marian]

I mean it's not impossible. But Zelda reuses names so often, that I don't think that this is any definite proof.

[@joosttencate]

My headcanon is that the Water Sage in TOTK is also called Ruto, and that the 'Ocarina of Time legend' is a fairytale based on the Imprisoning War. Quite a few story elements are inspired by Ocarina of Time.

[@mikethehunter5212]

@@joosttencate There's definitely a reason they had the sages wearing the Divine Beast masks other than a nod to the technology itself. Hopefully DLC will give more backstory to them.

[@mrbiscuits001]

@@dave_marian I mean with botw (and totk) being at the end of the timeline probably means it happened after oot. The past in totk causes alot of contradictions, so here's two ways it might work: 1) Totk and botw take place so far ahead in the future that even the past in tears of the kingdom is ahead of the current timeline. This would also mean that Rauru founded a different Hyrule after the old kingdom fell at some point. 2) totk is in an alternate timeline after SS. I like both theories as they both allow for freedom with the lore, but for the second one I think we'll need to wait until totk gets its creating a champion equivalent to get it confirmed as in the devs own words the timeline is "constantly changing".

[@chunkyrager]

when i saw how well this video was made, I expected to be from a channel with a lot of subs, I was surprised to see that u r still a small channel. this is very well made, and helped me understand a lot. keept it up!

[@dave_marian]

Thank you! Good to hear, you got something out of the video! And yeah I guess I don't upload enough to get many subs quickly. But I'm happy the number goes up even by a single digit~ haha

[@TrueKoalaKnight]

I really detest the use of the term gloom in TotK. Besides being a straight up mistranslation, it's just so non-threatening sounding. In contrast, a much closer translation, miasma, does sound threatening and dangerous.

[@syeo501]

Great video! I love that you also mentioned time travel in Skyward Sword. I also thought about it years ago and barely found any theories about it. Because of SS, I think there's another timeline. One where Demise was defeated shortly after he was sealed and released. Link from the future travels into the past to defeat him and goes back. In this new past, there wouldn't be the Imprisoned anymore and the Master Sword never crafted. So we get the ending sequence where Link and Fi depart, there the Temple of Time is built. In the other timeline, where there's still the Goddess Sword, there wouldn't be a Temple of Time as there was no Master Sword yet.

[@dave_marian]

Glad you liked it! The idea with Skyward Sword is just a theory but at least to me it makes sense somehow. You could probably find more points in various Zelda games where you could split timelines. Looming forward to see if Nintendo makes anything official.

[@syeo501]

@@dave_marian Age of Calamity is kinda canon, too, right? I wonder If well get AoC2 at some point that plays out alot differently than TotK

[@39peevedturtles19]

​@@syeo501 I was thinking about that. In AoC, Calamity Ganon is defeated but Ganondorf is still an issue. It would be interesting if he waits until ToTK takes place; the Calamity was defeated 100 years ago so Link was never in the Shrine...there's no hero when he finally strikes. Of course this would be solved with more time travel shenanigans that maximize playable characters.

[@mrbiscuits001]

@@syeo501Aoc is cannon in a “what if” timeline. So the events of Aoc never happened in totk’s universe

[@syeo501]

@@mrbiscuits001 OoT Link being defeated is a what if timeline. In AoC, Terrako was literally sent back in time to change things. It's basically the same what OoT Zelda did to Link

[@carterweese8725]

Wow this was a great video. That timeline placement headcannon just makes so much sense and gives such a more satisfying answer to all of the questions that botw and totk's placement at the end of the downfall, child, and adult timelines brings up. Its such a simple and elegant fix that I'm surprised that Nintendo themselves didn't come up with it. I would love to see a video in the future going into detail about this topic. So many of the other points you made in the video also just fully put into words ideas or questions that I had while playing but couldn't quite materialize (especially about your point with the connection between the Zonai and the Sheikah like thats so smart). Keep up the great work!

[@dave_marian]

Glad you liked it! I'm definitely gonna do some more! I'm not the fastest though I only get to write and edit in the evenings (work and stuff) so it might be a bit slow. The 20 minute video already took long enough :) The Sheikah are super interesting, definitely worth their own video. The Sheikah are supposedly way older than the Zonai, so there is much potential for theorycrafting :D

[@maiconmartins3789]

I think Rauru and Sonia used the Light Sacred power combined to the Recall time ability to both heal link's arm and restore it as it was as well as the transforming Zelda back to hylian form as she was before being a Dragon. This would explain how they could do that at the end... Maybe their combined power is the only way to undo Draconification.

[@dave_marian]

It was probably something like that. Still it somehow bothers me that (1) they didn't think about that earlier, and (2) that this takes away the weight and severity of Zelda's decision in terms of narrative. But I get it why Nintendo wants to end the game on a generally positive note. There are many players who might not want the game to have such a heavy tone.

[@Myzelfa]

I was just exploring the castle, and I noticed there are still cobwebs everywhere, proof that the place was never resettled after the Calamity.

[@dave_marian]

Yeah, I wonder how much effort that would take.

[@Crusty783]

18:40. They used recall, which Rauru amplified with his power.

[@liamwhite3522]

Recall, targeting the secret stone. It reverses out of Zelda's stomach and she gets better.

[@333dog]

What interests me about the secret spring of revival is the abundance of poes. If these truly are souls lost in the depths, is it possible that the life brought by the shrine is somehow fueled by the casualties and lost spirits of some cataclysmic event?

[@dave_marian]

Interesting question! I mean we don't really know what it took to seal Demise in the first place. Apparently Hylia fought a war? But there is still so much we could ask about who or what Demise is in general. Maybe there is even more than just one cataclysmic event connected with him...

[@andimari9194]

I’ve heard theories that hyrule used to have slaves that mines in the depths and those souls are that of the slaves. The theory is supported by the miners outfit having chains on it

[@333dog]

@@andimari9194 that is an interesting theory, thanks for sharing!

[@333dog]

@@dave_marian true.

[@andimari9194]

@@333dog right? In that same theory I also read that a war might have happened down there as a result from a revolution and that’s why so many structures are destroyed tho that could be ganons monsters

[@agehigh7476]

I’ve had a lot of these same ideas floating around in my head. I’m glad to see someone else talk about them. I do have some more evidence that supports the timeline theory: As you mentioned this world mirrors OOT in the majority of ways. The sages have the same names as they did in OOT, princess ruto and miners straight up are just there and ruto specifically receives plenty of location references like ruto River (which is a fitting name as it looks to be the same Zora River you use in OOT) Rauru is also the sage of light in both games. The map similarities further enforce this idea. If BOTW truly sat at the end of the timeline, it would be basically impossible for it to maintain the same basic world as OOT. In between OOT and BOTW, such an incomprehensibly long time passes that there’s no way that they could possibly be the same world. Things happen. Geological events definitely would have shaped the world out of proportion, the castle moved countless times but yet we are told it’s stayed in the same spot all this time to seal ganondorf. The depths also serve to “lock” this world in its place in this theory. The depths mirror the overworld, there’s no arguing that. If the overworld were ever to change in any specific way, would the depths change also? Are they magically linked? If this is the case, we know for a fact that the world has never changed since the zonai founded hyrule. Otherwise so many zonai structures in the depths would be destroyed. The whole mine under that spiral peninsula would have been destroyed. If the sea were to have risen for even a little too long, that would warrant the walls closing in on that mine, crushing it. If these locations are not linked magically and just coincidentally, that still provides evidence that the world never changed. For example the great mines all are found under the great civilizations. We still find the Rito, Zora, and Gerudo living above their respective mines. Applean grove exists for both worlds, as does many minor locations. Such fragile structures as trees you would expect to easily change over time, but yet they persist in the same spot for both worlds. The light roots are connected to the shrines, which if they did suddenly just appear after the opening cutscene, shows the world has not changed otherwise some shrines would be buried. This was probably really hard to read and make sense of what I’m saying. I had the idea laid out so clearly in my head, but once I started writing it was really hard to explain properly Anyways, I hope this is interesting to someone

[@jennilocke]

I've been in the 'past games are part historical fact, part folklore, part mythology in BOTW's Hyrule' camp since like 2018, and I'm still a believer in that theory. But i am intrigued by the possibility that BOTW/TOTK branches off the SS time shenanigans somehow

[@dave_marian]

I mean, up until now everything is possible :)

[@byte2133]

In, I believe, Hyrule Historia its explained that Rauru (Sage of Light from Ocarina of Time) Built the Temple of Time on top of the ruins of the Sealed Temple from Skyward Sword. This makes sense, timeline wise. The Master Sword is laid to rest in the Temple in SS, and lays there dormant until OOT when Link once again pulls the sword.

[@dave_marian]

On page 77 it says "It is thought that Rauru build the Temple of Time directly over the ruins of the sealed temple". But at the same time on page 40 is says in the bottom left corner: "The sealed ground probably have no direct connection to other titles, ..." Does make sense though since the temple of time in BotW is on the great plateau, which I think could be the isle of the goddess. And the original one was also build by a Rauru. Also similar and makes a lot of sense in a multiverse theory :D

[@byte2133]

@dave_marian I'm also considering the timeline, the master sword lied dormant for possibly hundreds of years since it was put to rest in ss and if what I said is true, it makes sense that the sword would STILL be there resting by oot time

[@joescraft123]

I noticed that at the labyrinths you have to show courage, power and wisdom. Wisdom by completing the mazes courage by jumping from the sky maze into the land maze and power by defeating the flux construct in the depths labyrinths

[@dave_marian]

That actually makes a whole lot of sense!

[@DamnDort]

Something I also realised is whenever rauru says " that was a reality when you never went back in time) to zelda in a memory, that's false. The reality where they had ti contain ganon and rauru dies is the only reality, zelda always is there. Seeing as how there's a mural of her becoming a dragon at the start of the game hidden behind rocks.

[@liamwhite3522]

And how Ganondorf, the instant he's set free, knows who she is, before she knows who he is.

[@xebenkeck1721]

I agree pretty much that skyward sword like oot caused a split in timeline, and we are playing the killed demise in the present branch, of Ss > BotW > TotK. The killed demise in the past then goes onto to all the other prior games.

[@sorenzzz]

I'm hoping for a reimagined ocarina of time with the botw formula.

[@dave_marian]

That would be interesting. But I'm afraid Nintendo wouldn't want to make a game without some new mechanic or gimmick. Which I believe is the reason why so many people still hold OoT so dear.

[@AmirUachi]

My three big questions: Why is Zelda flying as a dragon in the Sky BEFORE Link sends the Sword in the past? Maybe she wanted to check on our beloved Hero anyhow, even if she didn't had the sword :') What's actually Zonaite? Why in the depths seems so important that there is bunch of groups of mobs working day night to dig? Are they infected by that since they drop that 100%? Does Ganon need that? Why the armor that you get with 152 shrines is a mixture of Ganon and a Rauru? Zonai aspect with Ganon hairstyle and same sage stone in the forehead. Thanks for the time reading, hope to get an answer! Amazing video!

[@Slurp_Durp]

Well seemingly how you can trade zonaite into charges. I imagine them being a way to convert them into a energy source hence why he has his minions working down there. You see them also being use by the constructs to convert them into charges for you to trade zonaite making more and more. It's either the minions are collecting for ganon non stop or just doing it to fuel themselves hence why they some times drop zonaite.

[@dave_marian]

I mean Zelda has been flying around there with the sword for thousands of years. I don't think as a dragon you have the same perception of time though. Zonite is just like rare earths, you need it to make batteries to power tech, which I would guess Zonai became dependent upon, and Ganondorf and Kohga also hope to used it. My guess is that with the ancient aspect they just copied the picture from BotW. Why that one had those colors is a mystery though :)

[@AmirUachi]

@@dave_marian Not about perception: In the Great Sky Island Link has the broken master sword, and you can see Dragon Zelda in the sky as well. But would she be in Dragon form if Link didn't send the sword back in the past yet? She should't know that becoming a Dragon is the right thing to do. I guess the time line should split in the moment Link sent the MS in the past "creating" Zelda as Dragon. May be confuse, and as long time travel is crazy stuff i might just be saying bunch of nonesense 🤣

[@liamwhite3522]

@@AmirUachi In TOTK there is no timeline breakage. Zelda always goes back in time, always helps Sonia and Rauru, always witnesses the birth of the Demon King, always becomes the Light Dragon. At the start of the game, up in the Great Sky Island, Link has the broken Master Sword, and the Light Dragon has the fixed Master Sword. Link cannot leave the Sky islands without sending the sword back to Zelda, so the timeline cannot break.

[@dln_b]

This was extremely well spoken and narrated! It was also very interesting to make those connections from past games. I'm just hoping that Nintendo releases another game set in the same world as BotW and TotK and that third installment would be our Triforce Trilogy game. It would hopefully tie up loose ends from both prequels, and give us the ultimate ending to this story and the characters from these games.

[@dave_marian]

Thank you! Good to hear that you had a good time! I'd love to get another sequel in the future. If you think about it the Triforce itself has not seen much action in the plot yet. And with the Demon Dragon defeated it would be a good change to get another villain, the likes of Zant, Agahnim or Ghirahim involved ;)

[@meganhearts162]

Pretty decent theories. The timeline thing goes a little far for me though. I still believe the Forgotten Temple is the Temple of Time that came down from the Sky in Skyward Sword. The architecture has changed a little but it's one of the only places to have Loftwing carvings, the oldest Goddess statue being there of course would make sense, and when you're inside if you look to the left there is a tree growing out where The Tree of Life would have been.

[@dave_marian]

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed the video!

[@timewarrior7298]

Thank god I thought I was the only one who thought they looked like dragons, think of the dragon borne from dnd

[@dave_marian]

Smaller ears maybe haha. But yeah I guess with the cell shading graphics its not so easy to properly distinguish between scales and fur (or whatever in between).

[@MaestroSTY]

Great video with amazing insight. Please keep the good work coming. I have liked and subscribed for hopefully more to come in the future.

[@dave_marian]

Awesome, thank you! Got a few things in the pipeline and I will hurry up!

[@richardmahn7589]

Right now, all other games were just myths and tall tales.....one day, in a future Zelda game. BOTW and TOTK will be mere myths and tall tales. Mind blown! LOL

[@dave_marian]

Haha, I'm just waiting for Link to look into the camera saying "You're just playing some games, bro!"

[@51918]

I think Rauru’s and Sonia’s ability to transform Zelda back into her human form isn’t something they can typically do, but is rather the result of their specific circumstances at that time. Rauru has Light magic, Sonia has Time magic, and Zelda has both. By combining their magics and focusing on Zelda, I think they were basically able to combine their abilities to rewind the magic that transformed her into a dragon in the first place. They would not be able to do that on Ganon, for example, or the other three dragons because the host’s internal magic is just too different from their own.

[@dave_marian]

could be but then again, technically the only have to touch the secret stone magic part. Pick out the amplifier. But then again we know way too little about the magic system to clearly say anything specific XD

[@queazy03]

Maybe the Zonai are descendants of those 3 dragon people in Skyward Sword (Lanaryu, Eldin, Faron)

[@dave_marian]

Maybe! I think some kind of connection is likely. Whatever that might look like.

[@serge263]

The going theory about how the Timeline Split. It was the Triforce and its holders. Zelda, Link and Ganondorf created three timelines for their own. Also, the Gloom is used by Ganondorf to absorb power and draw in the strength.

[@dave_marian]

Do you have any quotes or concrete references for the thing about the gloom? I'm super interested in this, but I can't find anything concrete, only guesses.

[@serge263]

@@dave_marian It's from just simply observing Ganondorf when you face him in the final fight. Notice how he's sitting central and it looks like he's "glowing" with Gloom. He's not moving much, he's keeping his own physical activity down and he's still mummified/dehydrated by the time you reach him initially. Meaning, he's staying in that state to conserve as much energy as possible. It's likely he's using his powers actively, but it requires him to focus to a degree. The gloom essentially saps away your strength and if you notice throughout the depths, there are "gloom roots" that if you step on, act like gloom. Essentially, contact with gloom drains one's vitality. But it doesn't KILL the person. Then when you arrive and he has to get moving for battle. Ganondorf literally gathers all of his power, focusing it and restoring himself to his true power. In essence, the Gloom is draining everyone's vitality and giving it to Ganondorf so he can return to his full strength. It's possible he wasn't at 100%, but had enough to bring himself to 100%. However he remained in a low power state to minimize waste until he had gotten to his true full strength. But, we got to him BEFORE he got to his full strength. So he had to gather up all that he was using and focus it to restore himself to full.

[@CarlosSaulRodriguezA]

The connections between depths and surface are not closed, they are just zonai pilars in usually interesting locations. You just "ascend" throught them, so is just a "zonai" or at least a "Rauru-only" thing

[@dave_marian]

But how would you have been able to get down there in the first place before Ganondorf opened up purple holes all over the place?

[@CarlosSaulRodriguezA]

@@dave_marian there should be more ways, but i remind you... How do you enter in the spirit temple? so yeah... mechanic hidden entrances. Also, not really, I guess Zonai people were able to teleport too, as they don't seem impressed by the purah pad or sheikah tech in general.

[@borgroves2076]

I prefer the theory that the great plateu is the castle town of ocarina where the locations match up somewhat if you take into consideration of loading screens

[@dave_marian]

Castle Town in BotW also matches pretty well with Castle Town in OoT.

[@pupulauls]

I just wanna say that the lost woods have clearly moved locations during the games, perhaps it’s the magic properties of the forest that makes people lost is the part that moves from location to location. In OOT the Lost Woods are most likely in the Faron Region, but changes to where the Temple of Time once was after the events of OOT. In TP Lost Woods, we see the ruins of the temple, and in aLttP only the pedestal of the Master Sword remains. Maybe the magic of the forest is changing location because it’s used to protect important people or objects from outside interference so destiny can play out. Link in OoT, and the Master Sword in many other games. Now it’s a bit more tricky for why the Master Sword and Lost Woods are now in a location completely separate from both the Faron region AND the Temple of Time. I remember there was an old theory closer to when BotW came out that the Great Plateau and Great Hyrule Forest somehow switched places at some point, because the shapes are roughly the same, and the Temple of Time and Castle Town ruins would more closely line up with the castle. Since we know the Zonai have the technology to lift pieces of the earth into the sky, it could have been them for some unknown reason

[@dave_marian]

I'm just editing another video and saw something. In the memory where Zelda looks over Hyrule from the spot in front of the shrine of resurrection, you can see a lot of trees where the castle is supposed to be, but not the lost woods as you usually see them. But it's far away I might just not be looking properly.

[@Cre4tor.]

This is a really great video. Good job explaining the skyward sword part, as someone who only played totk and botw, it was easy for me to understand

[@dave_marian]

That's awesome! Glad you like it!

[@Shinntoku]

Personally I don't really think there are any timeline splits other than OoT. Skyward Sword and TotK both contain stable time loops, Ocarina has a split because Zelda sending Link far enough back in time to stop Ganondorf broke any potential loop.

[@Shinntoku]

To go further on this, I think the OoT timeline splits are meant to represent the pieces of the triforce. In the Adult timeline, Link's courage defeated Ganondorf (and even without the spirit of the hero, Courage still lives on in WW Link). In the Child timeline, Zelda's wisdom in sending Link so far back prevents Ganondorf's reign. And in the Downfall timeline, Ganondorf's power defeats Link and the sages are forced to seal him within the Sacred Realm itself, leading to it being corrupted into the Dark World of ALttP.

[@dave_marian]

Definitely a possibility. But that means you have to believe that something like a "stable loop" can actually exist. That is why I'm always so annoyed by time-travel, there is always a lot of assumptions that you have to make to even start thinking about what might be happening. I don't like the idea of OoT being the only split because it just leads to so many inconsistencies among the games. A general multiverse theory just seems smoother to me. But well, maybe Nintendo will clear that up at some point. Until then everything is possible!

[@JohnnyV83]

I think the unfortunate thing about the third timeline introduced by Hyrule Historia is that they called it the "Fallen Hero" timeline. A more recent theory that sounds much better is that the fallen timeline was forked from the prime one when the goddesses snatched Link away for his stasis and continues as a branch where he never returned to live as a child or defeat Gannon as an adult. Instead, the sealing war mentioned in LttP happens (as stated in HH). Sounds much more digestible than a timeline where the player loses.

[@dave_marian]

As far a I know the main ideas of the 3 timelines of OoT is that they depict the 3 aspects of the Triforce: One timeline where Link's courage defeated Ganon, one where Zelda's wisdom prevented the whole disaster from happening in the third place, and one timeline where Ganon's power shapes the world. It might just be me, but I'm not that big a fan of a Deus Ex Machina ;)

[@jumentoqueanima]

Underated.

[@maiconmartins3789]

Since we got this citation on the "Creating a Champion", my theory is that everything we played on the past games were "Legends" people were told, so we play on the way the history was "told" and not how they actually happened... This would explain why all the references and items on BotW and TotK exists. They are part of the history, but may not be as powerful or magical as they were "told".

[@dave_marian]

That would probably be one way to look at it. So you have each game as it's own bubble, seperated from the others (with a few specific exception like OoT and MM or BotW and TotK). It's plausible but not as fun as trying to put all of the games together somehow ;)

[@9791mij]

I won’t be surprised if they used this Hyrule from now on. Then builds on it as the story calls for

[@dave_marian]

Hard reset is quite possible, yes. But we will see what Nintendo does.

[@TheSpectralForce]

Great work man

[@dave_marian]

Thank you! I appreciate it!

[@neonswift]

The Forgotten Temple is definitely the Goddess Statue that came down at the end of Skyward Sword, its near the breach of demise, and as Zeltik showed it has 2 types of brickwork clearly showing its not a single structure that existed there. Its forgotten because its from a time long before the founding of Hyrule. We don't see clearly in TotK memories but I think the plateau was risen, not the walls that surround it but there are clear pieces of earth that look to have spilled out from these walls and are now intersecting the bottom of the walls. The earth could have risen due to parts of this land being lifted into the skies after the Imprisoning War, and if my theory that it is indeed the Downfall timeline beginning, it would explain why there is no plateau within these castle walls in the adult/child timeline. An alternative reason could be the fact a divine beast has been built beneath the plateau, raising the land up,, though I prefer the idea that the pleateau is just the result of the sky island's rising.

[@dave_marian]

I know the brickwork theory but I never liked it. There are many cases in architecture were different bricks are used and the texture of the small bricks can be found in all sections of the temple. Also there is no clear indication in any walls of an obvious separation between two parts of the temple. I actually talk a bit more about this in another video that I might (hopefully) finish soon.

[@Chris-gx1ei]

I think there can be a couple of reasons for the Lost Woods changing locations, first of all there can be multiple lost woods like im Holundrum in Oracles of Seasons or in New Hyrule and secondly maybe the Deku Tree can change its Position, I mean looking at the Region of Faron, it now looks more like a Tropical Jungle instead of a regular Forest like in Twilight Princess or Skyward Sword. So maybe he thought it would be way to warm in there

[@liamwhite3522]

I swear in one of the older Zelda games there was shown a baby deku tree taking over from an older one. Maybe at some point a new young Deku Tree decided they wanted to move, maybe to avoid a danger, and went to a different forest to call home.

[@Aladato]

It would make sense to have a base on the surface above the places with more concentration of zonaite on the depths for convenience. Or maybe there is more zonaite below those places BECAUSE there were people concentrated on the surface.

[@TrueKoalaKnight]

The problem with the Hero's Aspect being the hero from the tapestry or even being a Zonai at all, is that it's features are distinctly different from both Rauru and Mineru. It's more bestial and even has a tail and digitigrade legs. If anything it seems more like the Hero's Aspect is the ancestral form that Rauru and Mineru would have been descended from.

[@mrbiscuits001]

Well Rauru and Mineru resemble different animals (Rabbit and Goat) and they’re siblings. I think the ancient hero was just a different kind of zonai that wasn’t related to Rauru or Mineru and thus resembles a different animal. We know for a fact that by Rauru and Mineru’s time all the zonai went extinct. So it’s possible that he was resurrected or was in hiding without anyone’s knowledge, similar to the last Dwemer in Morrowind. With his clothing being distinctly zonai, it’s safe to to assume he’s implied to be a Zonai.

[@Rylocand]

The problem with skyloft being the great plateau is that the forgotten temple presents a lot of details from the temple in skyward sword where link first descends on the surface, while it could still be that the whole temple moved, how did it happen, was it when the island were lifted up in the sky once again? How did it ended in a crater

[@dave_marian]

I thought so too at first but the forgotten temple has also a lot of differences that make me think it might not be exactly what the sealed temple was. Most importantly the goddess statue is inside and there is just way more space in front of it. And the reference in Hyrule Historia, that the temple of time (the one from Ocarina of Time, but you could interpret it for the one in BotW as well) was build by Rauru on top of the sealed temple from Skyward Sword, makes it also a stronger candidate, since we have some Temple of time there in game and also see the old temple of time that is now in the sky at that same position in the dragon tear memory.

[@Rylocand]

@@dave_marian well I guess it would make sense it’s some kind of replica since behind the statue that’s where you find a map of each glyphs and they had to be drawn before the map was made

[@casplays2318]

Regards to turn zelda back, seems like they used rewind time ability and focused it on her. Makes sense at least as rewind time only rewinds the object or your target but nothing around around you.

[@dave_marian]

It was propably some kind of rewind yes. It just annoys me that if that was a possibility to begin with they wouldn't have had to make such a big deal out of people turning themselves into dragons in the first place. Mineru was very adamant that this is irreversable and I mean she should know about Sonia's powers. There are still many scenarios in which it makes sense that they don't think about this earlier but we never get any hints for any of those. And it takes a little bit of the weight and impact out of Zelda's decision to basically sacrifice herself. I mean I get it that Nintendo doesn't want the game to end on such a heavy note, I do, I just guess I have an issue with how they structured that. Don't get me wrong I still cried like a baby when we had to grab her hand in the end...

[@casplays2318]

@@dave_marian i agree the impact was quite lessened due to how they represented it then ended it like it did. :D i guess for some reason its not reversable if either are present so plot armor zelda was "lucky". I thought they would resolve it in the dlc as impa said she would look into a solution. But nope

[@__BlacklotuS__]

You know maybe people just need understand the developers want you to use your own perception of the timeline and there is no official timeline

[@dave_marian]

Could be. But if that was the case they didn't do themselves a favor publishing one in a hardcover book and on the official Zelda website ;)

[@borgroves2076]

W choice of set to wear set of the wild is best link outfit

[@dave_marian]

I love myself a classic green Link.

[@borgroves2076]

@@dave_marian I just think the green of that set really portrays the exploration of the hero of the wild

[@pupulauls]

Just wanna say that Zelda was not transformed back into a human, it’s more like her being itself was reversed using Sonia’s recall, which was greatly amplified by Rauru’s light power, which was all channeled through Link (because he’s still alive unlike those two). This is likely why Zelda doesn’t remember being a dragon even though we see a memory of her while she is a dragon, healing the Master Sword while being very conscious. So basically, Link’s amputated arm and Zelda’s draconfication were not “fixed” they were just reversed by Sonia’s time powers as if they never happened

[@dave_marian]

It's still a transformation even if it was recall. I mean it probably was some form of recall. Still it bothers me that (1) they didn't think about that earlier, and (2) that this takes away the weight and severity of Zelda's decision in terms of narrative. But I get it why Nintendo wants to end the game on a generally positive note. There are many players who might not want the game to have such a heavy tone.

[@Arvnd3x]

Amazing Video !!! ♥️😍

[@dave_marian]

Thanks! I'm happy you enjoyed it!

[@Aladato]

I'm still not convinced the Zonai necessarily lived in the skies, this theory of being related to dragons makes more sense, as we know those murals are not normally literal. Also, Rauru has little horns on his head too, putting him closer to the dragons. Another point here, the 3 dragons we know might be draconified Zonai, so maybe the dragons actually look like the Zonai in this case. The other two we see in TotK look a bit different. Huge spoilers below: Lastly, why do the secret stones do that to people that consume them? Maybe they are also tears of dragons and that would make more sense as to why people don't become birds or dondons. This also strengthens the Zonai direct relation to dragons as only they had these secret stones.

[@joshrobinson2409]

Pretty sure that botw and totk were stated to be at the very end of the time line currently, I have heard much about this.

[@dave_marian]

I have read something from time to time, but only in KZbin comments and Reddit posts. Nothing credible so far. But of course it could be that Nintendo just wants to make a hard reset. Would be a pity though.

[@neonswift]

There is an undeniable similarity to parts of that construct "egg" Mineru's contrsuct is put togehter in and the Shgiekah Shrines/Towers/Technology. My thoughts are: a) They inherited the tech. b) they confiscated it - I have a semi-formed theory that the Zonai were the Twili hence their disappearance, and the Shiekah have been shown to be jailers with the Shadow Temple. c) they stole the tech

[@dave_marian]

There is so much going on with the Sheikah, it's fascinating. But I still need to look some more into it :D

[@JonBarton19]

Oh neat, 500th subscriber

[@dave_marian]

Congratulations! Have a virtual handshake!

[@outoftheblue2327]

The problem with the multiple skyward sword timelines is the myriad of references to other Zelda games found in BOTW/TOTK, without these you could make the argument that none of those events happened but I don't really see a way to ignore all the references to places, people, artifacts, etc. The idea of there being two different branching timelines (one where Link kills Demise in the past and one where he kills the Imprisoned in the present) would make sense but unfortunately I don't think that the games support it at all.

[@dave_marian]

Nah, I have to disagree. In the end you could explain any kind of reference to other games in BotW and TotK with the Nintendo statement in the artbook that states that there are so many stories of old heroes in Hyrule, that you cannot say which one is true and which one fantasy. So the references are fun yes, but far from any definite fact that all games have to be in a serial relation to each other. I admit that the timeline split is nothing but a theory, there is no proof for that either but I don't think it is implausible at all, if you consider all the info we have from official Nintendo media.

[@HIG0R]

Very good video!

[@dave_marian]

Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed it!

[@neonswift]

BotW and TotK are the actual Hyrule. The other games definitely existed in some form, but I would say the facts tend to be 90% accurate rather than 100%. All previous Zelda games had proglogues setting thjose games up as legends with someone narrating the beginning, but in the case of BotW and TotK they don't have intros like that, and you are experiencing events directly through first person views from Link and Zelda. TotK refers to the time of legends so frequently its clear they have lost track of an accurate history because: a) landmarks don't match between certain titles. b) the Zonai are completely absent from these legends, and even modern day Hylians as shown in TotK are completely unaware they existed prior to the Upheaval. c) the names of locations based on these legends are often jumbled (e.g. Minshi instead of Minish). d) The Gerudo don't acknowledge/know the Sages contained males as they now refer to them solely as Heroines (though that might not be accurate to the Japanese text), and e) none of the legends portray the existence of a non-Hylian hero. Personally I go as far as being fairly confident that this is a retelling of the Imprisoning War as mentioned at the beginning of A Link to the Past, ergo its a retelling of the end of Ocarina of Time. This would be the beginning of the downfall timeline. Everyone complains that how does the downfall timeline exist when we don't wtness it nor there was time travel involved, but this game shows there wa time travel involved. Zelda literally travels back using her powers and alters history. The Ancient Aspect is ancient at the time of the TotK but may very well have been the Hero of Time (albeit not a human-looking Hylian hero as the legends tell because Hylians had eventually erased the Zonai from their history). This "Link" or whatever he was calleddied against Ganondorf. Rauru and Sonia don't know who he is because they simply never met him. I think Rauru from the legend of OoT was in fact the same King of Hyrule, but he's portrayed as a Hylian Sage because again the Zonai were never written into these legends. We only see a few memories depicting what led to the Imprisoning War, but as explained in Hyrule Historia and A LInk to the Past, the IMprisiong War occurs after the hero dies, leaving Zelda and the Sages to deal with Ganon. I think the connection between BotW and the original Zelda are very important. The team were clearly thinking about that original game when they turned their focus to BotW, so it makes sense they'd want to somehow connect the dots, when they have clearly shown they acknowledge the timeline split of Ocarina of Time. What I strongly do not believe is the idea that these legends never happened in their totality. Its clear Nintendo have thought about those games timelines as shown by in-game evidence (not even Hyrule Historia) and the numerous references to them in the founding of Hyrule and modern day Hyrule.

[@yazannaouri]

Thanks for the video, but I can barely hear what your saying because of the background music. It’s super distracting. Maybe lower its volume for future edits ;)

[@dave_marian]

Yeah I have heard some people say that. Might be my death metal influence coming through, I already thought the music quite low volume in the back. I already noted it for the next videos! Cheers!

[@gluckskatze3229]

Can you do a Video about the ancient Sages please? My so called "Discord Friends" won't believe me, that the Sages are the Champions from Botw. I don't know HOW this is possible or how it happend, that for example, Revali is with the other Champions in the Timeline of the Zonai, but my heart tells me, that i'm right. Revali is fully grown up in TotK. He in Botw, was just a Teenager, so was Mipha. All Zora have darker Skins. The younger ones, have bright colors like red for example. Also, Mipha in Botw is shorter. As a Sage in TotK, she is fully grown up. She reached her height and got darker Skin. Plus, all of the Sages got their original Voice Actors from Botw. It is just logical, that they are the Champions from Botw: Revali, Mipha, Urbosa and Daruk.

[@liamwhite3522]

Zelda interacted with the Champions in BOTW pre-Calamity. At their time, Hyrule has existed for at least 10,000 years, when the last time the Calamity happened in BOTW murals. And you are positing that each of the old Sages in TOTK, who were from the earliest years of hyrule, *are* the Champions all grown up. Or, are you saying that the 10,000 years ago Champions are the Sages? Cause that could be the case. Maybe the first time Calamity Ganon happened was still in their lifetime, and they were the first pilots of the Divine Beasts.

[@gluckskatze3229]

@@liamwhite3522 I would say the least. This makes sense what you are saying.

[@dave_marian]

The voice actors only really match in the japanese dub, otherwise you just have a few people voicing multiple characters. In the english dub, Revali, Teba and the Deku Tree are all voiced by Sean Chiplock. But I do not think they are the same, it would just make the storyline unnecessarily convoluted. My first thought was that they might be the equivalent of the sages from Ocarina of time, because of the names of the divine beasts (Ruta = Ruto, Rudania = Darunia, Naboris = Naboru, and Medoh = Medli from WW) we have references to a Ruto and a Naboru in BotW/TotK after all. But the wind sage is a guy, so there is that. I think it is more like in Naruto where you have different teams of people at different points in time who do share some similar traits and dynamics to make them more familiar.

[@neonswift]

Maybe I'm forgetting Skyward Sword but I don't think Zelda sent Link back to the past to fight Demise like she sent him back in time in OoT which cause the split. Link travelled back using a Temple of Time like system, and as OoT shows that system is more like traversing up and down a river . It is Zelda using her powers that is the thing that resulted in the split, not the temple. So Skyward Sword in theory should not have cause a timeline split. I mad another post about this game being the start of the downfall timeline, there's a number of reasons this could be possible, but fundamentally its bacuase Zelda travelled back so far she may have circumvented the events of OoT in some minor/major ways, and kicked off the Imprisoning War as depicted by A Link to the Past and Hyrule Historia.

[@bobmasters9871]

Wait... when you went to the statue of hylia in the forgotten temple, I thought that statue was knocked over in totk? But you were definitely the link from that game, or I would have assumed you had used footage from botw. Did I somehow miss the statue or is there trickery afoot

[@alundrajehuthy1801]

Specific quest. Check the springs of courage, wisdom etc

[@bobmasters9871]

@@alundrajehuthy1801 Oh damn. this game has so much I'm never going to find.

[@dave_marian]

Yeah, that is the reason why I said I wouldn't be surprised the statues can move somehow.

[@rhaegarriftblood5100]

Zonai have white hair, Sheikah have white hair, what if the Sheikah descend directly from Zonai and Hylians and are a tribe of Hylians with Zonai blood ?

[@dave_marian]

I also think the Sheikah are a Hylian tribe, but I think they are way older then the Zonai. Impa already said in Skyward Sword that they are "Guardians of the godess".

[@whitelasagna6786]

I want to propose an alternative to the “DoWnFaLl TiMeLiNe”. It is not a timeline where Link died at any point in the game. It’s just a different timeline from a split we don’t see. I know that’s an empty theory but man I HATE the idea of a timeline based on Link dying. It doesn’t make sense.

[@PoppinJenJenJay]

What if, and this is a loose theory I've come up with so feel free to anihalate it, Zelda going back in time and raising the skyworlds/zonai ruins upwards to protect them, is what sets off the story for skyward sword (Zelda is the goddess Hylia/incarnate and so forth) then the creation of the master sword started because the sages were not strong enough to defeat ganon, and demise was another calamity,

[@dave_marian]

Why annihilate? Thinking about those kind of ideas is the most fun about those game series :D I actually think it's not that bad of an idea, you could probably make a good argument for that! The only thing that I could come up with on the top of my head is that there were not really any people living on the sky islands of TotK as far as we know. Might be fun to think this theory out ;)

[@ACWells13]

I'm fine with the idea that other hyrule legends are just that- legends- but I hate the idea that the games we played were made up. We were *there*. We actually had to do everything. It wasn't made up. The wind fish's dream was merely a dream, yes. And Majora's mask is far out enough to be another pocket universe. But the actual hyrule history we've experienced and seen rendered being bastardised legend? That's a horrible theory.

[@dave_marian]

Chances are we are talking about a retelling of the same story from Nintendo's point of view. I mean it is not the first time that happens in media, think about how many different movies we have about Dracula or how often the same story of Spiderman or Batman has been told. With some differences yes, but with all the main story beats still happening in each version. I think that is kind of how Nintendo devs think of Zelda. They just shot themselves in the foot by first suggesting that the games are linked serially and then even publishing an official timeline. Comic-book companies, like Marvel, solved that by introducing the idea of a multiverse, separate timeline that all still actually happen, and not necessarily interact with each other - until they do. That is kind of the basis for my theory that BotW is a seperate branch from Skyward Sword. Kind of a compromise between what I believe is the developers' modus operandi and the published information we have so far.

[@jossuuuuu]

What i still dont understand about Zeldas time travel in TOTK, is how the hell does she meet Link in the future IN THEIR SAME TIMELINE where Links defeats the Calamity in BOTW, if Zelda has been roaming the skies for 10,000 years? Shouldn't that have created another timeline where they dont defeat the calamity then? Even more, shouldnt in that hypothetical timeline Link never have been appointed to the Princess of Hyrule as a knight?

[@dave_marian]

Not necessarily. The TotK time travel is quite interesting because it is one way time travel. I think the chances for weird things to happen are therefore less. I'm thinking about making a whole video on time travel if I can get some proper research done.

[@drdizastargames1337]

The game was better when it was called malice not gloom

[@dave_marian]

I don't really care which name they used, but the inconsistency annoys me a bit XD

[@Anthony-cj2ju]

Skyward Sword is supposed to be a closed loop and would not have a separate timeline.

[@dave_marian]

Things don't always end up as they are supposed to be. I'm pretty sure Zelda did not intend to split the timeline at the end of OoT on purpose. But of course it's possible. I just think it's cleaner and less contradictory than if Skyward Sword would have a closed loop. If something like a closed loop can even exist.

[@dave_marian]

I mean, we defeat Demise in the past, like properly defeat him. Why would any of the things that we did with the Improsoned even happen after that? And we leave Fi (and the true master sword) at the temple in the past, and see it right after that in the future. So the true, final master sword has always been right next to us. I mean I guess there is way to make sense of all that, there always is. It just feels to me that this takes more mind gymnastics. And it strongly depends on what theory of timetravel you are subscribing to, I guess. But that would take a long to get into all of that...

[@Anthony-cj2ju]

@@dave_marian But Zelda sealed herself in the past in the Amber crystal to keep the seal on demise going which you can see since first stepping in the sealed temple. So if it created separate timelines then she would not have been able to appear in the time where the triforce and the goddess statue defeated the imprisoned. These events were apparently planned out by Hylia before she sacrificed her divinity. Presumably her being the goddess of time, I dont think she would allow a split. Of course she would not be around during OOT to prevent that.

[@chunkyrager]

what if ocarina of time is just "legend/myth/folktale" of what happened during the imprisoning war, whilkte this is probably not true, there are similarities, and after thousands of years, when the imprisoning war was not completely forgotten but still happened long ago, the story could become completely changed over thousands of years of retelling, and end up as ocarina of time.

[@Mudkipper7]

background music a bit loud

[@dave_marian]

Thanks, gonna keep it in mind for next time!

[@LadyXenif9006]

I can give you so many reasons to back your headcanon up. The existence of the Goddesss sword despite the existence of the Master Sword, why the triforce is supposedly out of question, so much

[@dave_marian]

Thanks! Always appreciate a good backup!

[@LadyXenif9006]

@dave_marian eyupp. Since Breath of the Wild, I always pondered if it was just Nintendo retelling the story or just all and all forgot about it. I looked more into a 4th timeline from Skyward Sword. I just refuse to unlearn or relearn everything

[@HillwoodLam]

I'm just gonna suggest maybe lowering the music volume because it feels like I can't hear what you're saying sometimes.

[@dave_marian]

Hi, thx! Might also be me not talking properly. I will play around with it some more in the future!

[@Greytruth2]

I feel like they left too much out storywise. For example, nothing about the depths was explained in the game. It set up mysteries and then doesnt answer them. Really need a heavy story dlc explaining stuff, the whole "make up your own theories" just feels lazy. Especially when the world is so vast.

[@FrancoSciaraffia]

Nintendo just makes things confusing on purpose... I kinda lost my investment in theorizing about the Zelda timeline when they outright said that. Its not supposed to make sense. So I won't try to fit it together.

[@dave_marian]

I feel you! I think it's still fun to overthink stuff a bit ;) but I understand that it can get frustrating.

[@FeudOfJustice]

Surprised you didn't mention draconification and the 3 dragons. Good video otherwise!

[@dave_marian]

Mostly because I wanted to focus on the idea of the transformation being the other way around: Zonai being dragons that have transformed into more humanoid creatures, and I thought that the complete discussion with draconification would take to long to fully explore XD I wanted to keep the video rather short.

[@RyuuKageDesu]

I see no reason for BotW/TotK to be in an alternate timeline, aside from saving headcanon. what we experience in game contradicts no other game.

[@MrMichaelisaacs1]

I don’t think the timeline placement is very hard breath of the wild and tears of the kingdom happen so far in the future that alot of the story’s would go down in history.

[@hellzonefirebrigade3056]

Forgotten Temple equals Sealed Temple. Don't believe it? Compare the two

[@dave_marian]

I did. Too many differences: Goddess statue inside in one outside in the other; Master Sword Room basically nonexistent, Main Entrance on the wrong site; wrong dimensions. Also Nintendo states in the "Create a Champion" book that the Forgotten Temple was build by ancient Hylians (only did take design elements from the sealed temple) Hyrule didn't exist yet in SS times. Two different locations.

[@ValentinesMindBand]

Not gonna get into why SS does not have a timeline split. Too long. Instead, wanna know how is it surprising finding lon lon ranch in totk when it's exactly as it was in botw. Just curious. Not that much of a secret.

[@KeeperTPlays]

Puts spoiler warning over spoilers

[@dave_marian]

If you can piece together much of the story from those 4 partial shots you probably have psychic powers, which would suck because I can't imagine that you enjoy many games that way.

[@xxroyalprincexx6811]

This theory is so exaggerating.

[@dave_marian]

👍