What's Going On With Tears of the Kingdom? - Investigating Hyrule's Changes

[@GossipGeist]

Wiz Catches Lightning kzbin.info/www/bejne/jnO9pn57qtN5aJY Thinking At Max Volume kzbin.info/www/bejne/fZLNnGSrabanaJI Don't forget to hop on over to these lovely channels and say hi!

[@skistorm739]

maybe when the timeline merge back into one the world got warped without messing with the future. maybe the sinkholes cause the land change it was going to happen the world. the people saw the world getting warped but another game might change thoughts.

[@r3gret2079]

Woah dude! I never even noticed, the Purah Pad actually has little top triggers to navigate the menu. I'm sure I'm the last idiot to notice that, but how cool is that? Such attention to detail for every little thing in this world. You never even see them being used, you only see the pad that 1 scene, and the multiple times you use it, but from further away. I dunno, I just find that cool. Edit: if the Gerudo got the pointed ears after Minish Cap, why do they still have round ears in OoT?

[@KiomonDuck]

Remember at the end of BoTW Zelda said that one of the Divine Beasts had stopped working. I'd imagine that most tech stopped working right after the 1st game ended and the rest followed soon after. So they probably had to workshop a solution to salvaging what they could before it all became unusable.

[@KiomonDuck]

Also just the act of Zelda going back in time would change the future that Zelda left from. We may not even be playing as the same Link from the start of the game. Once she blinks out, the future we see is now the new timeline.

[@skistorm739]

@@KiomonDuck maybe the new timeline needs to rejust

[@ADistantWail]

So Zelda herself broke the timeline as usual, and Link burdens the consequences by getting thrown into random worlds and dimensions that want to kill him. Doesn't seem like anything is out of the ordinary here.

[@elloisefarrow7769]

talk about a toxic relationship xD

[@Dyundu]

Yeah, that tracks 😅

[@sophitiaofhyrule]

Zelda sacrificed herself to save the world, cut her some slack smh

[@hellzonefirebrigade3056]

😅

[@gameheaded]

More like she fixed it. She broke it back in Ocarina of time when she sent link back in time to a separate parallel childhood

[@DanielSenff]

If I remember correctly, the direction the sun is moving changed. Hyrule in BOTW was on the southern hemisphere, while in TOTK the sun movement suggest the planet now spins the other direction or it moved to the northern hemisphere. This change in lighting also makes many places feel much different to the first game.

[@lupoyo]

Wait! this changes everything!!! How could Zelda going back to past change the fricking rotation of the entire planet! Maybe there's a few more Zelda games that popped up in between the timeline that could explain this...

[@DianaLopez-dc7ts]

Well that could be explained by hyrule being in the tropics. The direction in which the sun hits us is different depending on the time of the year, it can change completely the way you use your curtains because the sun comes from a different angle and follows a different path

[@sarougeau]

@@javiervasquez625 That would make sense. We also don't really know if the world of Hyrule is astronomically similar to ours. For all we know it could be a geocentric model.

[@r3gret2079]

Just blame AoC. Thats what I do.

[@jamiethedinosaur869]

@@javiervasquez625Also explains another inconsistency; hearty durians aren’t in season at this time of year.

[@ShiroSay]

There is one thing that bugs me. The calamity still happened. The scroll is still in Impa's house too... It's weird.

[@md03250]

And if you do the school side quests the teacher straight up talks about the events of Breath of the Wild and (parts of) Age of Calamity

[@huehgo3600]

​@@md03250also the handful of memorials to the calamity found throughout the overworld

[@MirosScavenger]

@@huehgo3600 Sidon flat out mentions a facing vah ruta with link. The only direct mention I have found though.

[@danielwelch8600]

I was going to say that it might make sense if Zelda warns them about the calamity thus changing the events of history to the point where Hyrule never prepares for the calamity, but instead tries to go straight to the source. This, of course, would cause a massive bootstrap paradox, but that’s nothing new to the Zelda series. However, the fact that there are references to the calamity really put a wrench in things.

[@RSanchez111]

And Link being welcomed to Gerudo Town, they clearly remember him. And the Rito remembering Link too. Yunobo also remembers Link.

[@davemarx7856]

This Hyrule has been an absolute joy to traverse. Small changes don't mean it's a different place. Changes were made by Zelda. She influenced Hyrule from it's outset. It's beautiful to me - the idea that the future is unwritten. All that said, if Nintendo looks to reuse this game engine, I hope they make a new land to explore.

[@andihofi1652]

I somehow would like to revisit the same Hyrule again. It is such a well designed map. Like 60 years later. People moved in from neighboring countries. Our Link and Zelda are old people and NPCs. Cities rebuilt. Holes to the depths plugged shut again. Sky islands mostly collapsed and people forced to move to places, where less debris has been falling from the skies. Still the majority of a that adventure would need to take place somewhere else. Or 300 years later, and the old games are just left as stories, allowing more severe changes.

[@Frogofwiseness]

Maybe a game with the lands where people like to a came from

[@mariodeleon9354]

I mean there is the lone decayed guardian on top of the Hateno Tech Lab, so not everything was repurposed? Weird

[@SquareVillian]

what if there are more calamities before the one seen 10,000 years ago (where the shekia have not fully been formed yet, they will later steel the devices from this time) and TOTK actually takes place before the 10,000 years ago one, that's why the tech doesn't seem to exist yet and that guardian is some sort of prototype? @@mariodeleon9354

[@dhrgkbqxtjr2743]

A joy to traverse? There is literally nothing going on for vast stretches of empty land, and by the time you find enemy camps your vehicles are pointless because you have to stop to Ascend platforms and stuff anyway. If anything, vehicles are extremely inefficient (and pointless) compared to just riding horses.

[@GladstnJones]

Zelda didn't break the timeline, Zelda had always gone back in time. If you remember the very opening of the game Ganondorf knows her by name and immediately recognizes her, and there are murals on the wall that were obscured that when revealed show Rauru's battle with the Demon King with Zelda beside him.

[@-randomuser-4897]

Plus one of the stone tablets in Kakarico village, it has her name on it and the zonai research team is confused to see a "modern" name in such an ancient text for the first time.

Well yeah, but that's completely incompatible with many aspects of the world and it's past in botw, which causes a paradox that seems to only be possible to resolve with multiple timelines. For one, where was all the new stuff, Zonai technology and such, before the awaken of the Demon King? Where was the light dragon? How can it even be that Link sent the Master Sword back in time to Zelda, in what appeared to be the same universal moment, if it was already back in the past and already with the Light Dragon. So many paradoxes

[@GladstnJones]

@JoaoLeote7331 all the Zonai tech and the Light Dragon were in the sky, you couldn't see it likely because of a cloud barrier that separated the land and sky like from skyward sword. Remember in BOTW when you shot pieces off the dragons and they would ascend upwards and travel through holes that would appear in the clouds? That was them passing through the cloud barrier. As for all the stuff that changed, NPC's literally tell you that the Upheval drastically changed Hyrule's landscape, I'm guessing massive earthquakes and shifting geography caused caves to open and things to shift around. The rest you can just sum up to video game logic and Nintendo wanting to change things around. Fact is that there's no time paradox, there's a reason why the symbol used for the title of the game is the ouroborus, the twins serpents eating each other, a closed loop. The timeline is a closed loop. All the past Hyrule stuff that doesn't match with the previous timeline is because BOTW and TOTK is a reboot of the Zelda series, and frankly that might be for the best due to how weird and convoluted it was, it's better to take a fresh start and not be restricted to the continuity of the past.

​@@GladstnJones Interesting theory of the sky barrier, and you could explain a lot of the changes with it, but not all. One major unresolved mystery are the geoglyphs. We see the moment Zelda dragoconifies and splashes them all over the world. They should have been visible previous to the Demon King's awakening, but they're not, and instead they magically appeared after the upheavel. Things like this suggest to me that the upheavel wasnt just earthquakes caused by Ganondorf, some things in the world magically changed in an instant, which I can only link to Zelda's time travel altering the timeline. Although that still doesnt make sense because Ganondorf knew her name

[@GladstnJones]

@JoaoLeote7331 or they changed, again, due to the upheval, it wouldn't be the first time a Zelda game handwaved something away as magic. Also no, the Light Dragon did not make the Geoglyphs, people in the past found her tears and saw the visions of the past that Link sees and made the geography based on the visions. It's possible that the Geoglyphs were always there and the light Dragon returning to Hyrule and dropping her tears again caused them to reappear. This could explain why the Geoglyphs have almost a glowing effect to them, land markings in real life that they're likely based off of would blend better into the ground, and the one of the Demon King in the Hebra region shouldn't be visible at all due to the snow, this indicates that they are magically visible in nature. However one of the NPC's straight up tell you that they were created by ancient Hylians, hence why the temple behind the goddess statue show them and where they are exactly. TLDR; The Geoglyphs didn't form from Zelda's tears, the ancient Hylians made them around Zelda's tears and the tears cause them to glow, they weren't visible in BOTW because the Light Dragon was above the cloud barrier, and without her tears the geoglyphs faded.

[@interloper5203]

DLC idea: the yiga clan stole the shrine of resurrection and moved it to under the shrine in the depths, revive master kogha for kogha’s revenge

[@cedrolenon]

That would be literally impossible

[@garboge]

Koghas not dead tho

[@Xion431]

Kohga is prob somewhere on the sky islands (likely a new sky island that will be introduced in the dlc)

[@RobloxOverloadGames]

Or revive sooga

[@8-bitoctane101]

Mmmm not possible anymore, after all they said no DLC planned for the game

[@spandandasgupta5773]

It also might be the case that the shikah tech was exploded. When we kill a guardian, it just explodes without even burning the grass, so that might be what was done to the pillars, and the shrines (and the devine beasts). It might be that if they run out of power, it stops and decays, if a surge of power is given, it explodes kinda deal

[@bunnybaker2289]

Ancient arrows??? Boop them into another dimension haha

[@normis6620]

Exactly! Everyone being so pressed about sheika tech disappearing, when guardians puff away whenever you kill them

[@Orangecatenergy]

@@normis6620Hmm probably because all enemies just puff away :P so there’s not hundreds of dead guardians and bokoblins lying around. But for lore it can be useful.

[@AzureRoxe]

ALL enemies poof away you idiot, in literally every Zelda game.

[@kit76149]

Also, the Yiga have taken over the great plateau, so it could have easily have been them who removed the shrine of resurrection so Link can't use it again. The towers also canonically retract into the ground

[@pipedream2556]

But like he days in the video to counteract this exact point, the stalactites don't make sense. The Yiga wouldn't be able to force them to grow in place, you know?

[@kit76149]

@@pipedream2556 They probably reused cave assets without thinking about that

[@Kaisona2017]

@@pipedream2556The only explanation for the stalactites, would be the elite Yigas punching the ceiling, to make them grow. Then again, I don’t see why any of them would do that, unless they’re extremely bored.

[@kristhebrownie]

Not really a great theory imo, but if the shrine of resurrection existed in a pocket dimension like the other shrines it could explain the stalactites better.

[@blizzary9369]

What doesnt add up is rhe complete dissapearance of the final trial, in the dlc the shrine of resurrection was an elevator that descended deep beneath hyrule, even in the depths theres a hot spring beneath hyrule. It cant just be dismissed as non-cannon as if youve completed the champions ballad dlc, the photo you get at the end is still hung up in your house in totk

[@Thinky.and.the.Brainstorm]

A lot of the changes to the terrain seem to be a RECALL of how it looked before the Calamity, maybe even before the Sheikah created their technology 10,000 years ago.

[@lupoyo]

It's almost as if this is the Hyrule from 10,000 years ago, in Impa's prophecy thingy just pushed to present day Hyrule due to Zelda's actions. There's definitely some timeline things going on. It's a complete mix of things

[@etaknar]

It’s definitely a different dimension. Deep under the ocean labyrinth, all of the machines that were there are gone. No one spelunked down there! Those machines were either disassembled in the past, in the Zonai era, or they never existed.

[@etaknar]

@@javiervasquez625 only four years, I thought. Also, why are there so many more people in Hyrule 2.0? I can imagine people getting busy, but where did all of those full grown adults come from? There are so many more people! Now, if the robots were mostly disassembled long before they could run over the kingdom, and it was just an army of monsters and the blood moon… well, they might have had time to evacuate part of castle town!

[@GossipGeist]

There's at the very *least* a four year gap, as stated in the video, but there's definitely potential for it to have been longer, because of how old Hudson's child is. The only reason why I said 4 years at least is because of the fact that Link looks 100% identical in both games. Nintendo didn't chose to age him up at ALL but allowed for a child to be born and grow up to become the equivalent of a 6 or 7 year old. They aged Zelda visibly by making her taller than Link in TotK, when she was shorter than him in BotW, but they didn't age Link whatsoever. I feel like this was simply a conflict during the development process. Link can realistically be aged up by 4 years at the MOST without much of a visual change, but 6 or 7? That's a stretch. So, I decided to say 4 years at the very least in the video.

[@r3gret2079]

​@GossipGeist I dunno, human men stop growing around 18-24 y/o, n iirc Link was about 17 or 18 during BOTW. Even if it was 6 years, it's totally possible he just didn't grow enough to make a physical difference. I'm 36, but I get carded everywhere I go, cuz I look super young. I actually stopped growing when I hit 20 lol. I fuckin hate it. "Are you 21?" MF I WISH! Lol

[@Exarchimedes]

Given that the game directly references the Calamity (that's what Symin teaches about at the school), I think Zelda did not alter the timeline, or at least not substantially. The Upheaval was a magical attack on Hyrule by Ganondorf, and did change some things, but I think if the Sheikah can manage pocket dimensions (as the Zonai obviously do with their shrines), they can probably project these spaces over reality, which explains why some of the tech has just straight up vanished - turning the tech off makes it go back into storage. Just like with the shrine tech that makes sensor orbs and materials respawn, there's more magic at work here than Link or even most of the cast directly demonstrates - but we can see its after-effects.

[@Alz3m92]

and like the master cycle just dissapears when you unsummon it i dont remeber wheter it goes back to the pedastal thing or not when you unsummon it but it goes somewhere

[@K2niarDneK]

Honestly it seems fairly self-evident that the Shiekah's technology was based, at least in part, on Zonai magics. Everything the Shiekah made was just bigger and more tech-based versions of their Zonai counterparts.

[@sarougeau]

it'd also be pretty reasonable for the people of Hyrule to be very fearful of the remnants of Shiekah technology and desire their removal. That technology was reintroduced to the kingdom very briefly and they didn't fully understand it. it was also how Ganon unleashed the Calamity which brought the kingdom into ruin. Looking at the amount of ghost towns, ruined buildings, and the numerous memorials for fallen soldiers in TotK, it's pretty evident that a large majority of the population have died and left deep scars on the conscience of following generations.

[@brycebitetti1402]

​@sputnikmann6541 Let's not forget that the ancient sages quite literally wore the Divine Beast helms. While Urbosa's speech on top of Vah Naboris was originally an OOT reference, it seems that TOTK has retconned it to be a reference to the ancient sages. While their names aren't said aloud, given that Rauru was given the OOT sages name (despite sharing practically zero similarities with that version if the character) it stands to reason that the ancient sages may also be named the same as the OOT sages. The Sheikah likely based their prophecy and technology based on records of the Zonai and their tech.

[@theheirofparadoxspace7309]

I agree with this one honestly

[@bluepolar282]

On the great plateau, there are 4 chasms on the locations of each of the tutorial shrines. I think that this means that ganondorf might have destroyed all the Shiekah tech because he knew that Link had used it to heal himself in Botw, and he didnt want to repeat the same mistake twice.

[@WilliamRobertHixon]

Same deal on Hylia Island in the Lake, the Shrine in the Tabantha Craters, Tingle Island, and a couple others. A lot of Chasms line up with Shrine locations. Plus there is the lore tidbit from creating a champion says the towers descended after their job was done iirc. Also since we see some shrines rise in BOTW, it possible ones that weren't destroyed by chasms descended like the towers, they have no reason to remain now that their jobs have been fufilled.

[@gabeznl3591]

How did ganondorf knew that? Malice Ganon didn't even had a conscience. What happened there is that the Sheikah tech was entirely removed by the people, and the explanation to the gloom chasms being in the same place as some shrines is 100% just Nintendo doing a reference to the other game, to get people remember that those places had a shrine

[@bluepolar282]

@@gabeznl3591 After completing the geoglyphs, Impa goes back to Kakariko village, and if you talk to her about the calamity she says "It was the Demon King of ancient times, brought back to existance in the form of hatred manifest" This means that the calamity was basically just a bigger fantom ganon, and Ganondorf did control phantom ganon

[@kreenbopulusmichael7205]

ganondorf wasnt defeated by the sheikah technology ? demise was, calamity ganon was not ganondorf

[@Luke-st8bc]

​@@kreenbopulusmichael7205 Calamity Ganon was part of Ganondorf similar to phantom Ganons which means that Ganondorf would know about Link using the shrines etc and Ganondorf destroying shrines makes sense, especially the ones on the Great Plateau so that Link can't get the runes again

[@coolguychecker7329]

The extra building on top of the Akkala Citadel was first noticed in the February 2023 trailer and it was discovered that the building was supposed to be in Breath of the Wild. It even shows up on the mini map in Breath of the Wild even though it isn't physically there. If you want to dive deeper, you should explore the fact that the destroyed stonework of the Great Plateau walls is still present in the ancient Hyrule cutscenes, seen clearly when Ganondorf obtains a secret stone. The easiest explanation is ret-conning, but if you want to literally interpret them as lore, there are lot more inconsistencies that need to be reckoned with.

[@Epsilonsama]

Nah it's them using the same map and not wanting to create and entirely different map for a cutscene.

[@coolguychecker7329]

@@Epsilonsama A similar explanation exists for all points raised in this video, they wanted to introduce new content in the world but wanted to reuse as much of it as they could.

[@idlevillager3763]

​@@Epsilonsama at least Hebra mountain and the Dualing peaks are still whole in the ancient cutscenes

[@JMsolidsnake]

Everyone seems to forget that at the end of BoTW Zelda says that the Divine Beasts seem to have stopped functioning. It would make sense for them to be dismantled then if they no longer work

[@GossipGeist]

Yep. Giant hunks of metal sitting around. Vah Medoh was perched on top of Rito Village for crying out loud, that thing was going to break the perch it was sitting on eventually and flatten the entire village if it wasn't dismantled.

[@HDLink_mabinogi]

i think was about the spirit of the champion move on so the divine beast finally turn off just like they were before.

[@a.jthomas6132]

This may sound like a theory… but one thing I did notice about the Divine Beasts is the mask each Ancient Sages do resembles them. It makes me wonder if Sheikah Tribe have use Rauru’s third eye as their symbol, and created these giant mechanical beasts as a tributes to these warriors from the Imprisoning War. There is much more of Hyrule’s history than we all anticipated.

[@tryorse8340]

His mega blast is 1 for 1 with the beast blasts besides the color as well

[@lghmsslynay]

I'm pretty shure that if you wear the divine helms in TotK the corresponding sage puts on the ancient sages helmets.

[@Gilliebeany]

I'm so glad you mentioned the eye. I firmly believe that the zonai were the original royal family being protected by the sheikah. The sheikah can see the future, perhaps an ability enhanced by a secret stone. Or, perhaps, they simply were impressed by the sky people and worshipped them as Gods, and a symbol of seeing truth. Personally, I think the sheikah were able to see the sky people in visions eons before the zonai descended. When Hyrule was founded, there was turmoil. Some zonai felt it shouldn't be half hylian, the people who worshipped them. They raised up, against early Hyrule, and were defeated and banished by the royal family, which was partly Zonai, and the sheikah. Those banished were called the Interlopers. This is why midnas helmet mirrors the zonai constructs when they are sleeping, and why the helmets of the sages are of the ancient beasts.

[@Sarah_H]

There's a wall painting of a camel in the Lightning Temple. That is the only place we EVER see a camel in BotW/TotK, confirming that Naboris was modelled after an animal that used to actually exist in Hyrule in ancient times (and the other temples have figures reminiscent of the other Divine Beasts, re: the locks in the Fire Temple look like Rudania, the water spouts in the Water Temple look like Ruta, and the Stormwind Ark looks like Medoh). And that's without even mentioning the helms the Sages wore

[@Kristabombastic]

Doesn't impah from SS also have the eye design on her tho?

[@TinyLadyKris]

this is actually a theory I've had for a while now. that link and zelda aren't literally in the same hyrule they were before, and that when zelda went back in time, she changed hyrule permanently. and so the hyrule link finds himself in is actually different.

[@GossipGeist]

Bingo!

[@Abbby12]

Ganondorf remembers zeldas name in the opening of the game which means zelda was supposed to go back in time originally and keep the timeline in check not change it

[@TinyLadyKris]

yeah that's the main confusing bit. that, and how did link not get completely changed, you know? @@Abbby12

[@ryanspencer3781]

​@@GossipGeistthere is one decayed guardian left at the ancient tech lab in hateno village

[@zenath3125]

@@Abbby12then why aren’t we able to see the Geolyphs in Botw?

[@Epsilonsama]

Something tells me that the devs didn't even notice how changing something on the map would be considered lore wise. After all Nintendo put gameplay over story.

[@RealRinkus]

This theory would actually explain why so many of BotW's old npc's don't recognize Link in Tears of the Kingdom, nice theory!

[@dice5709]

Pre video: Yeah but some actually do which just makes me think that the devs don't care anymore. Well not all of them, some do but they have to hide shit from Aonuma's mediocricy.

[@Perry_Neum]

Maybe the gloom dissolved most of the Sheikah tech as a strategy by Ganondorf to eliminate those meddling divine beasts, also resulting in the deterioration of steel weapons.

[@GossipGeist]

Not a bad suggestion. I wish this was the case, but then you have the other weird anomalies like the building appearing out of nowhere and the Skeleton in the Tower hole. What a head ache!

[@CallMehXiLe]

The Purah Pad is Sheikah technology so that would mean that that and the towers would not work

[@robomanredstone]

Kinda confirmed. Look at where the totk's chasms and botw's shrines in the great plateau. Pretty sure their in the same place. As for why other shrines don't have chasms, probably because they where the most important ones, they gave you the Runes and stuff.

[@KalinGames526]

@@CallMehXiLethe Purah pad wasn’t dissolved though

[@CallMehXiLe]

@@KalinGames526 that's my point

[@thefan6151]

My theory why the ancient tech dissapeared is that the gloom destroyed shrines and devine beasts (maybe even guardians) since ganondorf wouldn't want that technology helping link beat him again

[@enderking6904]

Then why not hijack it again?

[@JasonAWilliams-IS]

@@enderking6904 Purah downloaded the latest security patches for the divine beasts.

[@McCaroni_Sup]

​@@enderking6904 because he already tried and it didn't work I guess

[@leobankowski7682]

@@enderking6904 because last time link was able to take back the divine beasts

[@negativealt2908]

@@leobankowski7682 how about hijacking every tower this time lol no map for link

[@thinkingatmaxvolume1992]

Hey GG! Thanks for the shout out. I have to apologize in advance for the potential Ted Talk I'm about to write, but we have 4 possible explanations for an altered Hyrule from time travel: [Key point is Ganondorf recognizes Zelda when he wakes up from his sealing beneath Hyrule Castle at the start of the game] #1 - Alternate Timelines (0% chance) Doesn't actually happen but mentioning it for the people who might think it does. Because Ganondorf recognizes Zelda at the beginning of the game, that means she was already in the past, so her appearing back then would not cause a timeline split. If she DID cause something to split the timeline though, we have problems. If Zelda caused a timeline split, then she would leave the original timeline and exist in her own split timeline. This is a problem because (1) when Link sends the Master Sword back, there'd be no Zelda to receive the sword because she would no longer be in the original timeline and (2) if Zelda still became a dragon it would be in the split timeline and not the original, where our Link is, meaning we wouldn't see her in the present as Dragon Zelda. You could argue that when Rauru's hand pulls Link into that portal after Zelda falls off the platform, that it pulled him into this new split timeline that Zelda created. But... I doubt it. We know Rauru does not have time powers so it'd be impossible for him to do something like that. We also know he doesn't understand time, because he thinks Zelda was never in the past (during the Sonia grave memory he says Zelda comes from a future where she was never in the past. Ganondorf recognizing Zelda at the start of the game proves Rauru wrong). I seriously do not think Nintendo wants to get back into creating more alternate timelines (Age of Calamity doesn't count because it wasn't written by Nintendo and it's also non-canon). Also, because TotK takes SO MUCH from SS, I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo also took the idea of Causal Loops from SS as well (SS features a Causal Loop). ***The next 3 points involve the idea of a Causal Loop. A Causal Loop is a concept in single timelines, where a future event causes a past event, but that past event causes that same future event. There is no way to determine which event comes first. TotK is a Causal Loop, where the events are (1) Zelda takes part in sealing Ganondorf in the past and (2) Ganondorf wakes from his sealing in the present and indirectly sends Zelda back in time. There's no way to determine what came first. Ganondorf only gets sealed with the help of Zelda (her time distraction is kind of a key move in that fight), but Zelda is only there because Ganondorf wakes up in the present and causes Zelda to fall from the platform and activate her time powers. What came first? Did Zelda help seal Ganondorf or did Ganondorf cause her to go back in time? It's impossible to know. The murals of the Imprisoning War also show this. They're not blocked because they change, they're blocked so as not to spoil the story at the start of the game. Zelda is supposed to go back and help seal Ganondorf. #2 - Temporal Merging (Extremely Low Chance, Probably Not) For the record, I hate Temporal Merging with a passion. Temporal Merging usually involves a character travelling back in time and changing events while we the viewer stick to the perspective of the main character in the present (Zelda goes back but we the viewer stick with Link). The Traveller changes history, which changes the present, but our main character has memory problems because they remember the original timeline but also this new altered timeline. Temporal Merging could explain all the changes but the problem is, if it was TM, then as soon as Zelda goes back in time, the present would snap to this new altered reality. From the perspective of the people in the present, the past has already happened. Anything that Zelda changes in the past would have already happened. That's why this instant snap of reality would happen, because the present of the altered timeline would have been different from the original. After she leaves though, we see from Link's perspective there is no instant snap or anything, everything seems the same as he's saved by Rauru's hand. It's interesting to point out that Hidemaro Fujibayashi, director of TotK, also directed BotW, SS and the Oracle Games. Oracle of Ages actually has a weird version of Temporal Merging where the present doesn't instantly change, and people actually see the results of the past being altered, in the present, in real time. Example: we see a couple on a date and the male turns into an old man which freaks out the woman. We see a grandma hanging out with her grandson and he turns to stone. We see a group of monkeys slowly disappear. I don't really agree with it but I'll leave that for a later video. Basically, while Link is unconscious in the sky islands at the start of the game, you could argue that this would be when the reality of the present changes. The problem is that there'd be characters who remember the original timeline and would either have memory problems remembering the original and altered history, or they would have noticed the changes outright. The other big problem is, because Ganondorf recognizes Zelda from the past, we know she was always back there, meaning whatever she did, lead to that exact present moment when Zelda and Link find sealed Ganondorf. A standard Causal Loop can not work with TM because events must happen exactly as they do. TM allows a character to do whatever they want in the past, so if history was changed, the original present might not have even happened like it does, and characters might not even exist in this altered reality. Also Zelda might have been altered too because since she comes from the present, and the present would be altered, her history would also be altered and she should have had memory issues as well, remembering the original and new altered memories. I know this section must be confusing as hell because it is. IMO Temporal Merging is bad time travel writing because there's way too many problems you can have in the logic. #3 - Standard Causal Loop (Most Likely What Happens) The thing with Causal Loops is they follow something called the Novikov Self Consistency Principle. This idea states that the past has already happened and anything the Traveller does in the past was and will always happen exactly like it does. Meaning you can not have alternate timelines branch off inside a Causal Loop (Alternate timelines do not happen in TotK). Events will always happen the same (meaning Temporal Merging does not happen in TotK). Zelda going to the past was and will always happen exactly as it does, which leads history up to the point of the events of BotW and TotK. Any landscape or character changes I would attribute to oversights on Nintendo's part and them not really paying attention to the implications of time travel. Which hilariously is also my opinion on SS (SS is a Causal Loop but there are some issues that don't fit this idea. Again, SS and TotK have the same director). Which goes along with their idea of developing gameplay first and then focusing on story. They do things that sound cool gameplay wise but then don't really make it work with the story. Again, there will be explanation videos for SS and TotK time travel later. #4 - Self-Healing Timeline (Not as Likely but Fits With This Video More) If I understood your video correctly, what you were saying fits more with Self-Healing Timeline Theory. This theory actually is what I've come down to for SS, if we're trying to solve the time travel in these games instead of saying Nintendo just didn't put in the effort. Like I mentioned above, Causal Loops should follow that Novikov Idea BUT because its time travel in FICTION we can get away with some stuff as long as it makes sense. Self-Healing Timeline Theory pretty much still follows the Novikov Idea but allows some leeway; if events are changed then the timeline will autocorrect itself so that the future is still the same (Temporal Merging still does not apply because in TM the Traveller is not restricted by the Novikov Idea). Usually with this, the future is always identical but again, we're trying to fix Nintendo's mistakes. We still have our Causal Loop, and all of our major events in history, but any little changes like landscape and missing Sheikah stuff or whatever, could still happen because small changes would be allowed as long as the major stuff still happens. It sounds a little lazy but it's the best I have to explain the changes you mentioned in your video besides gameplay design being more important than story. TLDR don't let Nintendo touch Time Travel. Sidenote: not to self-promote, but my first video actually explains how Zelda's time travelling in TotK could actually reunite the timelines: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5ScknmYa6uJqac

[@GossipGeist]

Lmaooo, hold on I'll need to grab a snack before I get into this comment. Good to see you here!

[@thinkingatmaxvolume1992]

@@GossipGeist :D :D :D

[@GossipGeist]

I definitely think the casual loop and self healing theories are the best out of the bunch to explain what's going on here. There's so many subtle changes in this game that are so blatantly made without a single care for consistency. Like you've mentioned, I guarantee this is the outcome of putting gameplay first before lore. They barely even did anything new with lore at all in this game in general. The little amount of lore they did manage to add is so full of holes, it's not even funny. I'm not a fan of doing Nintendo's writing for them, but Aonuma did say he wants us to make our own timeline placements. I guess I sort of figured he was joking, be he wasn't joking in the slightest. I mean, I love to theorize, so that's exactly what I'm going to do anyway.

[@Asaurusfox]

​@thinkingatmaxvolume1992 I have two timeline theories that are different from anything I've seen, or remember seeing anyway. The first I thought of when the scene of zelda playing the harp was shown. It's easier for me visualize than explain. One string appeared as two when played, and I remembered a high speed camera recording of what a stringed instrument looked like being played. Ok, so imagine the timeline like the harp string, and when something plucks the string like time travel. Something like what happened in OoT would be like plucking the string with a lot of energy, it didn't actually split the timeline, it made it vibrate with enough energy that it looked like the scene I mentioned above, (one string but looked like two) those vibrations continue until the energy dissapates. That would be similar to a self-healing timeline. But what if time was a bunch of strings and not just one, where when one sting is plucked then the energy resonates a nearby string causing it to also vibrate, just with less energy. That would be how some things change just a little bit. Additionally, when a string is plucked it doesn't just vibrate in the one spot, it vibrates the most in that spot but the vibration travels along the string in both directions. Almost like an inevitable cause and effect. I'm not sure, really, it was just a thought that might only make sense to me. The second idea is a lot more involved and is part of my "theory of everything" that I've been thinking about for some time to make sense of everything without using fourth-wall-breaking "developer oversight" or "bad writing." It centers on a balanced yin & yang concept of "order" and "chaos" being the foundation of everything. Starting with the goddesses' creation usurping chaos. Picture chaos as being all possibilities and all of time existing as a singularity. (Chaos isn't evil, it just exists) magic is using "order" to bring a specific possibility out of that chaos. Zonaite for example has the possibility to be many things if the right recipe is used. Zonaite is from the "chaotic" depths. When you think about it even the balance of plant "life" in the depths has a "chaotic" effect when used. *There is so much more to this if you'd like to hear it.* but basically depending on the "how" of the timeline being affected, either by order or chaos, determines how the rebalance is achieved. Edit: quick example, a chaotic force alters the ordered creation, the twin peaks are split. Order is balanced by reflecting that change in the chaotic depths.

[@thinkingatmaxvolume1992]

@@Asaurusfox I do like the harp comparison. Its also a harp that lets Link time travel in Oracle of Ages

[@tristanneal9552]

The fact that Lookout Landing and the Lindor's Brow Skyview Tower are missing from the upheavel cutscene is WILD. Considering that, the only options really are A) Nintendo was sloppy and made changes haphazardly, or B) Zelda fucked up the timeline by going back and bootstrapped Hyrule into a new version of itself. I think her giving Mineru the Purah Pad is probably what caused all of this, it created a paradox.

[@ChrisHoulihan]

10:26 This Akkala building is so strange. If you stand in this rubble in botw and check the map, you’ll see that there is a mistake on the botw map that isn’t patched to this day, it shows a standing building that we don’t see until TOTK. This is the exact location we see Link in TOTK trailers watching a blood moon cross the sky, from the second story. And yet there is apparently nothing special about this place in TOTK, despite it all

[@Chubby_Bub]

The Sheikah tech is honestly the least of the problems. It's already magitech and could very well been dematerialized like Purah did with the whole army in Age of Calamity. Given the Lomei Labyrinths are Zonai in origin one could use a similar handwave. The other changes are much more bizarre (though some are related to where the Sheikah stuff used to be anyway.) The building in Akkala Citadel stands out the most to me. I actually remember that very building being subject to confusion because it's where Link watches the Blood Moon in the Nintendo Direct trailer. Even before the game came out, people were able to discern that was Akkala Citadel based on the view, but there was no building there in BotW! I doubt it, but I wonder if it was intentional…

[@TheGangsterFrog]

This video has given me more lore-implications than all the others I‘ve seen combined. Especially the Gerudo‘s pointy ears pointing (pun intended) to Rauru‘s Hyrule being after Minish Cap, what a nice catch! Keep it up :)

[@Perry_Neum]

The artillery cannon that Link gets shot out of seems to be made from ancient materials too.

[@ummidk757]

I think the sheikah tech literally just vanished like we saw that the sheikah could teleport literal divine beasts in age of calamity, maybe all the sheikah tech just destroyed itself or teleported away from hyrule knowing it isnt needed anymore

[@cato3277]

The game REALLY wants the player to believe the Upheaval is the cause of pretty much every change in Hyrule. Nintendo really needs to hire some consistency directors.

[@GossipGeist]

You said it. This game gives me head aches, lol.

[@cato3277]

@@GossipGeist ikr, like I can tell they wanted this to be the definitive Hyrule founding but it just doesnt have the connective tissue to support the claim.

[@aaronhartley9821]

So did you want the exact same hyrule with no changes? This is a sequel, they’re gonna add extra gameplay.

[@Brodie_Loman]

I think it is a combination of three things. Yes much of the sheikah technology was taken apart to be used by Purah and others. As you say we can clearly see leftover parts used in things like the towers. Then whatever sheikah tech was left was destroyed by Ganon's gloom during the upheaval. There are several locations in tears of the kingdom that used to have shrines but now have holes down to the depths, ganon likely wanted to destroy as much tech as he could due to it being used to defeat the calamity ganon. And then finally any other odd discrepancies like buildings or skeletons can be explained by timeline shenanigans. So three things: 1. Purah and other taking it apart. 2. Ganon's gloom destroying things that could be a threat to him. 3. Zelda timeline shenanigans

[@SkyLinkTheory]

I was under the impression that Zelda was meant to go back in time- but now after seeing this, was Rauru actually right about “A Future where she never appeared in this world, you are here now.” ? But then Link… the Upheaval cutscene without Lookout Landing… did he cross timelines through Rauru’s arm? Could it be that TOTK is a split timeline sequel like how WW/MM are from OOT? Be even before Zelda went back in time Ganondorf said Rauru placed his faith in Link… It would be an expected heartbreak for Nintendo never to expand on this; how can an alternate Hyrule exist? Unless it’s always been an alternate Hyrule from BOTW.

[@NebuloreYT]

A very solid theory, you’ve presented it well. Great video as always buddy, looking forward to the next one!

[@GossipGeist]

There he is. Thanks a ton, man. Anyone who reads this comment, check Nebulore's channel out as well!

[@adnnebs]

I thought like you at first, Zelda changed the timeline and Rauru in a cutscene says Zelda saw a future in which she never went to the past, she’s here for a reason. But the fact that Ganondorf talks about Link being Rauru last hope before Zelda went to the past makes her changing/merging timelines impossible

[@idlevillager3763]

let's say Rauru is definitely more aligned to the Triforce of Courage than to the one of Wisdom

[@samhill4294]

I believe that TOTK takes place in the same Hyrule because the game clearly establishes that the time travel shenanigans occur in a closed loop. The murals in the imprisoning chamber depict the imprisoning war, including the draconification of Zelda, before link and Zelda even know it exists. The gloom created by the mummified Ganondorf appears in Hurule before he got access to Sonia’s secret stone. The opening of the game shows the consequences of the imprisoning war before Zelda even foes back in time, so all of this must have already happened. TOTK is a closed loop.

[@KaiClavier]

There's a small ancient furnace in lookout landing that powers the tower there, activated when you first get the tower. That doesn't change much though I think an overlooked element is the sky island rocks on the surface which are *fused* with cliff faces, sometimes underneath cliff faces (so there's no way they fell like that like the rocks you can use recall on) They're not just clipped into the surface rocks either, there's some interesting blending pattern between the two. I think the moment Zelda went back in time, the old timeline fused with a new one in some weird way. When npcs talk about the changes in the upheaval, it's about the chasms, the sky islands, and caves appearing (which dont require time travel as an explanation! chasms were opened by overflowing gloom (the yiga already found entrances), sky islands were revealed by light dragon clearing the cloud barrier, and the caves... you could say it was earthquakes?), not about where all the shrines and divine beasts went... was ancient shiekah tech wiped from not only the world, but peoples minds in that instant? well probably not because the tapestry remains, the calamity did happen divine beasts and all, there's a guardian on the tech lab, the towers are made of recycled parts, and an npc specifically refers to Vah Medoh at one point. So everything in BotW happened... yet the physical historical evidence of it in TotK's world is mostly gone (that skeleton where the tower used to be...!) So maybe in the new timeline that fused with the old one, the towers were never disturbed, and *that* was brought into the new timeline where they *were* activated... so they both were activated and were not activated. It happened but it didn't happen. My head hurts

[@dark_5707]

I think that the Hylians have buried the Divine Beast and most of the Sheikah tecnology for the next Calamity Ganon, but it's still weird that nobody (and I mean, really nobody), even Purah, Impa or the others, mention the Sheykah tecnology....

[@blyatfulcommunism171]

This would also explain that how many NPCs don’t remember fully the deeds of Link in BOTW, granted the prescience of the divine helms also troubles things as the cutscenes suggest the Zonai inspired the shekiah designs for the divine beasts, though that’s speculation

[@M4421-O]

A lot of core NPCs do remember his endeavours, and link kind of did take a sideline role after botw and likely wasn't out and about interacting with every group seeing as his responsibilities were moreso as the closest personal aid to the monarch of hyrule. It's also difficult to account for the player's actions in botw - if the player only talked to core story NPCs, almost nobody would know who link was.

[@jman2001jt]

The most logical and unfortunately boring answer to this conundrum is that Nintendo does not care about continuity. The fact that we got any direct continuity with BOTW at all is a miracle.

[@RigalicReign]

I'd say that the main culprit in this is one of two possible theories that I can think of off the top of my head one the sheikah spatial magic ended up warping more of reality then intended. My main reasoning for this is the fact that all most all the technology is gone I imagine by using any stored energy in the sacred beasts and the temples they could have reversed the physical damage of the calamity to some extent. Theory too is because we're looking at this with a multiverse paradox Zelda going back into the past was having active effects on evolving the ancient cultures, basically she's uplifting the ancient peoples of Hyrule into more advanced states of life. And the reason we see this paradox is because link or at least the link we play as has existed outside the flow of time before being dead. With him being a silent protagonist we can basically determine that even if he notices a change from something he remembers seeing 4 years ago he wouldn't point it out. Basically Zelda is butterfly effecting the past and Link is the only one who would have knowledge from before

[@RigalicReign]

Ha came to same conclusion

[@sboinkthelegday3892]

St. George cursed the indo-European water dragon Bolla, to have her eyes closed except on the one day of her feasting on everyone she sees. I beleive this eye-opening is what happens to Rauru as he makes the seal, and again to Zelda and Ganondorf. It's roughly inspired by the troll in The Flight of Dragons that serves as the design for Hinox and Bulbin Captain, but the more direct parallel is to Hoju decorative stones that are said to come from the brain of dragons. In TotK this Hoju is a Secret Stone, carried with anyone who is REBORN IN THE SPIRIT WORLD. A dead world of a collapsing timeline, whose inhabitants seek to fix their past mistakes. For example, if Sonia and Rauru had already lost their chance to have children and preerve the kingdom, they could call upon form a future that never existed, and bring back their bloodline from there. The same way Mineru's spirit can be called upon to inhabit other structures.

[@UltimateTobi]

Something small I wanted to note: I very much like the fact that you blend in- and out the title and game of the currently playing track. Thanks for that! Some incorporate them in the Description Box and many more don't credit the songs used at all. Perhaps Zelda's arrival altered some locations to some extend. But it can't be the case that the Shrine of Ressurrection never existed, because that'd mean Link never recovered and Calamity Ganon was never defeated, resulting in Zelda dying and not returning to the past, starting this cycle in the first place. It must have something to do with the Upheaval itself. It's weird, regardless, especially in such cases as obscure, ruined buildings suddenly standing. It's unlikely that an action taken in the ultra-distant past having an effect on an obscure building at that particular point in time on Akkala Citadel (Butterfly Effect or not). I would go the conservative route and say it's solely done for gameplay purposes and has no deeper meaning. The next step would assign it to Upheaval magic shenanigans. I wouldn't go as far as to say that time travel actually changed anything, since time travel usually doesn't work that way and based on the mural in the castle, Zelda already has and always will travel back and get the stone rolling. It cannot not happen, so it can't change anything.

[@wizcatcheslightning]

Excellent attention to detail here. Very cool to watch! And thanks for the shoutout!

[@GossipGeist]

Anytime, bud!

[@llliwwille]

I had come to a similar conclusion as you did, with the inconsistencies in the landscapes. Now Me personally, subscribed to the theory that BOTW and TOTK takes place at the end of the fallen timeline. Especially Hyrule was destroyed in yet another year. Hylians themselves survived barely for a while. Then the Zonai come down, exist for a bit. Then Rarau establishes a “new Hyrule” (which it should have been called in game) This is the Hyrule Zelda visits. Then after, 30,000 years pass before BOTW happens in order to account for the multiple Calamity Ganon incidents. But honestly, at the end of the day, this is me grasping at straws. There are still an incredibly amount of holes and I find it so frustrating then it has become defeat.

[@TheMinskyTerrorist]

I think it's all ascribed to the Upheaval somehow. It could have a strong magical reality warping component, especially given that it did trigger the sky islands coming down and the Light Dragon being aware that things were in motion. The other theory about the sheikah stuff (someone else on youtube did a video about it) is that both Ganon and the people of Hyrule considered it a liability and destroyed it, either dismantling it or eating it with gloom. Apparently the locations of some of the sinkholes correspond to areas where shrines used to be.

[@completelygivingup9413]

I was never 100% aware of shrine locations but I did notice that where the Kakariko Great Fairy used to be, there is a massive hole. It’s very possible that Ganon or whatever dark magic was going on targeted places of power

[@Exarchimedes]

​​@@completelygivingup9413He definitely targeted the Deku Tree directly. I think there's something to the idea mentioned earlier in this video of the Sheikah Tech being capable of pocket dimension type stuff. So yes, some of it was buried before and later dismantled, but I think some of it ceased to exist or rearranged itself. If they can do pocket dimensions, they can probably also project those spaces into reality, which would explain the shrine of resurrection and many of the other changes that seem to be impossible. It would also explain the bottomless pits in the shrines as well as the shrine materials that reset or seem to enter from nowhere.

[@baileywatts1304]

It's like continuity only ever exists in the Zelda franchise in the form of references to make returning players smile, and the entire notion that there was ever a "Zelda Timeline" worth obsessing over was just a fever dream of people who wanted to believe.

[@Master_Quests]

I’ve been thinking this for awhile now and it’s nice to see a lot of evidence supporting it! Great work! Something I noticed too is how Link’s upgraded tunic is in Hyrule Castle, but he’s already wearing it in the beginning prologue. If Link already has an upgraded champion’s tunic, why would Zelda hide a second one in the castle? I think what’s subtly implied here is that Zelda gave him the tunic sometime before venturing beneath the castle in the world of BOTW, but when Link is transported to the alternate Hyrule, this never happened.

[@Ryodraco]

Zelda states in her diary in her Secret Well that the Champion's Tunic Link currently has is getting worn out. Hence she commissioned a new one and hid it in the castle as a surprise. She intended to tell him about it after their mission beneath the castle.

[@Pokefanmati]

Omg i’ve been thinking this since day 1, feeling the same as you! It’s so great to watch your evidence!

[@J_B_6985]

This little piece of detail doesn't directly change anything to anyone's theories but the actual time that has passed between BOTW and TOTK is around 9 years...Hudson and Rhondson get married in BOTW and have an 8 year old daughter in TOTK Mattison...removing Sheikah Tech in that time would be the most ideal thing for all of Hyrule...as for how would Hyrule know where the gaurdians are all at = Link! With his vast knowledge from exploring every inch of everywhere, why is it a question tbh?

[@globaled1694]

u are incredible for putting the song names at the bottom of the screen, i wish ppl did that more often

[@amandawiggy2284]

Great video, and a lot of stuff to think on there. All the little differences really are compelling- that small building in akkala especially. Its always the small details that get me!

[@themessenger8334]

This is going to sound strange but I cannot stress enough how much I appreciate both how articulate you are, but the way you explain things so well. Your voice is also incredibly smooth and easy to listen to. Subscribed.

[@julianwollinger203]

Just found this channel and I‘m impressed by the quality of the videos! Keep them coming!

[@GossipGeist]

Thank you very much! You bet I will!

[@CZsWorld]

One of the most disappointing parts about tears of the Kingdom was not getting to learn what happened to the Sheikah tech. I get why the developers took that stuff out, to help give tears of the kingdom a little bit more of its own identity. The same reason that Kass is not in the game. I just wish there was a better reason for it.

[@kyleoliver637]

It also is weird how caves and bottom of wells all of a sudden appeared. If you examine the furniture and items and vegetation in those areas, they show a significant amount of age along them. Also, why are there all of a sudden random chunks of weird structures jutting out of cliff sides?

[@GossipGeist]

My theory on the random chunks of sky islands sticking out of cliffs and the surface is that all Zonai creations were made with Stake and Anti Gravity technology. Stakes create a little web around them when they're phased through solid matter to hold them in place. The chunks of Sky Islands everywhere seem to be doing the same thing, which is why there's a different texture surrounding them.

[@jlco]

I'm going to call the wells a retcon for sure. They realized "hey we have a ton of wells all over the map and we could do something cool with them" and so they did.

[@idlevillager3763]

@@jlco at least a well in Kakariko suggests it was open and used even before events in BOTW, so you are right on that one

[@TheHaddonfieldRegistry]

God that OoT owl soundclip will never not make me feel nostalgiac. That's the noise I want to hear when I'm passing into the afterlife.

[@Kno_2-d8h]

This just proves Nintendo put all of their time into making more gameplay and had zero thought on how the changes they made would affect the lore.

[@Lester_Houston]

This is such an underrated channel! You should have more subscribers

[@DaimonAnimations]

3:50 Its been around 7 to 9 years since BOTW not 4, if we take in consideration The child of Hudson and Rhondson just turned 7 and if Rhondson got pregnant in the same Year the Calamity was defeated. If Rhondson got pregnant the year after the Calamity was defeated, then its is around 8 to 9 years since BOTW and TOTK.

[@GossipGeist]

I guess Hylians age like fine wine then, while Gerudo age like bananas. Link and Zelda looking nearly identical in TotK as they do in BotW just rubs me the wrong way with information like this. I've known about inconsistencies like these since the start, but I don't think very many people are willing to try and tackle this subject because it's too difficult to wrap heads around. It's such a long time between games, and yet the game itself doesn't explain any of it. Very frustrating! Fascinating, but frustrating, lol.

[@DaimonAnimations]

@@GossipGeist Well, lets say that by the magic of Hylia or whatever, Link and Zelda froze in time from the end of their Calamity so they were 17 years of age. Link goes to deep sleep and Zelda seals herself with the Calamity, BOTW starts both are still looking 17 but we all know they are 117 years old. So from the end of the Calamity they are probably still 17 years old (looking) and lets say tops, its been 9 years, Link and Zelda should be in his 26's (more accurately 126) but from 17 to 26 there could be minor changes I guess. xD Link is very healthy and strong so this is normal in people that play sports, they remain more youthfull looking longer than people that don't do heavy physical activity so that could explain that. Zelda does look slightly older or not as youthful from her BOTW form but it could be the haircut too. Overall they are not like us Earthlings, they are Hylians and probably they have that Asian aging genetics. I guess! xD

[@GossipGeist]

@DaimonAnimations Zelda is slightly shorter than Link in BotW but taller than him in TotK. She did indeed age but Link seems to just have the strongest manlet jeans known to the universe.

[@DaimonAnimations]

@@GossipGeist I agree, I wonder if it was just an angle issue? Either way Nintendo is not perfect, but I did noticed that. Maybe Link's real power depends on how short he is. xD

[@kingkmtso5107]

​@@DaimonAnimationslink was 18 actually🙂

[@nonnoumby]

Here is my two cents on the matter: it is mostly the same Hyrule. The Sheika Tech, due to fulfilling its purpose to defeat Calamity Ganon, turned into dust and disappeared the same way the monks did when we completed their shrines. And vefore someone brings up tbe Guardian up on Purah's house, it was probably not affected due to being deactivated as it did not emit any blue/red/orange light that characterised all the tech that disappeared between the games. All the tech seen in the Purah Towers and Slate are the results of over a century of studies by the two greatest geniuses in Hyrule in reverse engineering their ancestor's technology, and we have proof they succeed with Robbie's robot and arrows back in BotW. Zelda going back in time probably caused the minor changes we see in Akkala Fortress and other places, if we want a "lore" reason rather than the much more obvious gameplay and world design one. But that means it still is the same Hyrule as the one from BotW, as proven by Impa still having the scroll about the Calamity and the New Champions all remembering their past adventures with Link.

[@amdobrantal1774]

"Zelda... And you, the one with the sword... are Link." -Ganondorf in the prologue. So... it can't be that Zelda caused many changes like that (because she had already been in the past), except if this would be something like the second loop, where Zelda has alreadu gone to the past, but because her name was mentioned in the prologue, her actions differed from the original Zelda who didn't hear it.

[@Zachrzan]

WOW, what a spectacle this video is, honestly, this has to be one of the best editing I’ve seen in a youtube video, keep it up!

[@TheLegendofGumby]

It makes the most sense that Zelda going that far back in time would drastically alter the future, but she already had the purah pad before going back so that’s a head scratcher if this altered tech is somehow a result of her time travel.

[@Nephewjohnny]

This theory is good but we know the divine beasts were there in whatever hyrule totk is in because when you get the vah rudania helmet and talk to yunobo he acknowledges that it is a divine beast helmet

[@elsiebartlett6808]

I sort of had these thoughts too throughout playing. It seemed strange how it all happened “all of a sudden” alongside the upheaval (when Zelda went back) NOT when light dragon Zelda broke the sky barrier as we see in the opening. So many theorists took the two covered up murals to indicate that Zelda going to the past was always predetermined, but Nintendo’s intention here is that we are not meant to see them/they’re not meant to be seen until after Zelda goes to the past, so it is always possible they depicted an alternate timeline of events without Zelda’s involvement. Great video! Lots to think about

[@lance1383]

Awesome theory! Also, dude's voice is the champion among sages!

[@a.jthomas6132]

Link x Princess Zelda’s relationship in both BOTW and TOTK is very special to me as to many of the Zelda fans, and here are some evidences that prove of my case: - King Rhoam assigning “HIM” as her appointed knight in in the first entry of Zelda’s diary - She is the only person that helps her Appointed Knight and Hero to be more opened to her as seen in Zelda’s diary entry in BOTW; explaining why he felt necessary to remain silent because with so much at stake and too many eyes upon him. - After the Calamity emerges beneath Hyrule Castle and nearly 80% of the land’s population is nearby wiped out, Link is gravely wounded defending his princess. She jumps in front of Link which activates her sealing powers. - In Memory 18, Zelda returns the Master Sword to its pedestal before heading to Hyrule Castle, she wants to leave a message for Link when he wakes, but the Deku Tree stops her and tell her to say it to him in person, implying that it was a very personal and emotional thing. I played the spanish version, and the words of the Deku Tree were "Priestess, the most important word, the ones that come from the heart, are told in person, don't you think?" - In the Champion’s Ballad DLC, Kass hints Zelda’s love for Link at the very last song. Read this lyric here: 🎵 “The princess's love for her fallen knight awakens her power / And within the castle the Calamity is forced to cower. But the knight survives! In the Shrine of Resurrection he sleeps, until from his healing dream he leaps! For fierce and deadly trials await. To regain his strength. To fulfill his fate. To become a hero once again! To wrest the princess from evil's den. The hero, the princess-hand in hand-Must bring the light back to this land.” 🎵 - Petals of the Silent Princess flowers represent their endless love as Bolton has mentioned after the Terry Town side quest. The secret ending of BOTW confirms it as the pedals of the Silent Princess represents Link and Zelda's love. - in the Japanese version of Breath of the Wild, the Player's journal entries are more focused on Link's perspectives that shows more of his personality, his thoughts, his doubts of whether or not he is the hero Hyrule is needed, and his desire to see Princess Zelda's smile again after recovering all of his memories. - In the beginning of Tears of the Kingdom, we see Zelda showing concerns of Link and her knight holding on her torch after the Princess geeks out the murals.... showcasing how close - In memory 8 of the Dragon Tears, Zelda tells Rauru her description of Link as well as her fondness of her knight/hero/lover. Her ancestors acted like the kind of parents who would be interested in meeting their daughter’s boyfriend and hoping to put Link’s mind at ease. - Before the pair set out to investigate the glooms beneath Hyrule Castle, Zelda was about to surprise Link with the newly improved Champion’s Tunic. She wanted to surprise him and see his reaction. Sadly we never got to see that moment. - Both become teachers in Zelda’s School to educate a new generation of Hylians in Hateno Village with the assistant of Symin (since they saw themselves through them). - I’m not sure what the Japanese version is like, it claims that it is called “The House” while the western called Link’s formal home “Zelda’s House”. Nintendo is doing their best to hidden it, it's heavily implies that Link x Zelda do live and sleep together. - A scene you get of Link surrounded by the silent princess flowers, a flower field where there are princess flowers and blue nightshade side-by-side, an npc implying married couples by dream homes, that dream home having a study and silent princesses nearby. - After completing the side quest in Lurelin Village, NPC tells Link about the couple’s secret visit at the Lover’s Pond (meaning Zelda visits there with Link accompanying her) - While the original Western version of Tears of the Kingdom calls this side quest “Potential Princess Sightings”, Link calls her "my sweet princess" in the Japanese quest log version - in the final boss battle, Light Dragon (Zelda) comes to save and aids Link against Draconified Ganondorf which could mean not all of her is lost. Zelda’s love for Link could be explained by her dragon instinct. -Zelda’s dragonification is reversed when Rauru’s light power and Sonia’s time power channeling through Link. The reason why it happened was because they required Link’s stronger motives. And we have seen that before in BOTW where Zelda’s motives to save Link triggered her Light powers. It was love. - The entire goal of the game from the start isn't even "Kill Ganondorf" it's "Find Princess Zelda" and that is only completed by Link catching the real Zelda. - Link held on to her tightly as they landed on a lake. Upon being woken after being asleep for hundreds of thousands of years, Zelda can describe it as “a warm, loving embrace”. - When Zelda said “ Link ,I’m home”, I believe it is not just she really returned to the Hyrule she belongs to. But Link is her home. - Mineru Theorized that reversing Zelda’s Draconification requires Sonia’s Time power and Rauru’s Light Power to be channeled through Link’s arm; but activating magic is also in need of strong motive. That is when Zelda smiles at her knight knowing how much his princess means to him. - In comparing the two secret endings, Link runs up to Zelda in Breath of the Wild while he walks proudly as he is showing his composure among his friends approaching Zelda. While she has shown a lot of love and care for the people of Hyrule, Princess Zelda’s true love is for Link and only the player can see the two of them in love. Based off I looked over, it confirms that Zelda loves Link in Breath of the Wild. And Link loves Zelda in Tears of the Kingdom. Nintendo needs to stop denying this and accept that Zelink is canon.

Great analysis, I had the same questions, great to see such a good video on it.

[@Lele_Zss]

Maybe the depths are somekind of remnance of the old hyrule destroyed due to zelda traveling back in time?

[@raegangates9135]

It’s almost like the upheaval put everyone back in time, but even that theory doesn’t make sense for everything

[@BoyProdigyX]

That theory of collapsing timelines is amazing. I wish Zelda jumping back hadn't killed all the cats in Hyrule 😢 Sadder still, is the probability that Nintendo doesn't care about continuity _NEARLY_ as much as we do, and this is all in our heads! haha 🤙🏽🌺

[@zeldaplayergl11]

This was really well put together, I loved this video!

[@YKVasilisk]

After 7 ~ 8 years, I believe a lot of things might have changed, while it is a mystery what happened to the shrines, I think the Towers were most likely recycled into the Skyview Towers.

[@brokendrumsticks2112]

another banger video 🔥🔥🔥 i've been patiently waiting for this video since our chat, and as soon as i got the notification, i started watching. i've been really excited to hear your view on this, especially in a fully scripted video. W video, it was fun talking about the topic with you before! edit: i'm definitely joining that discord

[@jery3747]

I never understood why people think the sheikah tech just disappeared on its own. It wouldn’t make sense for any of the tech to just retract into the ground because as we saw in age of calamity, on the main menu screen after beating calamity ganon, the towers, shrines, and pillars all stayed above the ground. So either the Hylians pushed them back into the ground, or they dismantled them on their own. OR, like you’re saying, this is a completely DIFFERENT hyrule!

[@brycebitetti1402]

Age of Calamity isn't canon. Nintendo didn't even make it, and they don't care about connecting any new games back to it. It shouldn't be used as evidence for anything besides maybe character designs.

[@Rushy137]

Bruh! Thanks for this video. Awesome!

[@Homeboyjr94]

There is one guardian that is not operational. Its either at akkala tech lab or hateno tech lab at the top of the building. Plus a korok seed as well.

[@GossipGeist]

Yeah, it's on the roof of Hateno Tech Lab. There's a bunch of other parts they have hanging from the balcony as well. I'm assuming those were left because they're considered decorations or something by Purah and Robbie. Sort of like decorating your house or yard for Christmas and there's some people that don't take them down until the middle of spring or summer, lol.

[@theakiwar9118]

@@GossipGeistAlso the main mural from 10,000 years ago that is the focus of BotW (and even on the cartridge/disk and loading screen (wiiU version). The one with Guardians, Towers and whatnot. Is still in Kakariko. There’s even an easteregg mentioning it after completing all shrines. So it has to have happened I will borrow a theory from the comments and will believe that the Sheikah could simply warp reality with their tech

[@StormsparkPegasus]

I have two explanations for the timeline stuff. The Watsonian explanation, and the Doyalist explanation. The Watsonian explanation is, it takes place either in the Downfall timeline, or in a hypothetical unified timeline (created by Zelda's time travel somehow), far in the future. The Doyalist explanation...Nintendo themselves doesn't know where BOTW/TOTK take place in the timeline. They deliberately made BOTW vague to get fans talking, and they took fan speculation and incorporated it. They developed the Zonai into a race because of fan speculation...in BOTW it was just a cute punny name to give some ruins (since it's an anagram of nazo which means mystery or puzzle). The more vague it is, the more players speculate. The more players speculate, the more engaged they are, and the more popular the series gets (because people are talking about it). So, like it or not, WE are determining where BOTW/TOTK evenutally end up in the timeline. Nintendo is going to take the most popular fan theories and evenutally make one canon.

[@daniel8181]

Assuming this is accurate, what would be the effects of zelda not being present in the past? If she did not help rauru, if ganondorf couldn't use her as a distraction, if she didn't have the garden raised, if mineru died against ganondorf. Could the tapestry show the results? Because if zelda not being there could cause the construction of the divine beasts, then Zelda being there would obviously alter it. I think impa still acknowledges botw, but she's basically magic anyway so id expect her to have such impossible knowledge.

[@Phistandantilus]

Wow, excellent video! I was ready to hit subscribe and like after just seeing your gossip stone themed intro, but the meat of this video went on to echo a lot of the same doubts and misgivings I had about Hyrule in TotK and the disappearance of the ancient shiekah tech. your use of music and editing are razor-sharp, too. I look forward to seeing more of your content. :)

[@dorememe8548]

Imagine if the BOTW series gives us three new timeline branches in the next official timeline.

[@Artemismagician]

Great channel with great content. Thank you for compiling and sharing your ideas, the theoriest in me loves this stuff

[@GossipGeist]

My pleasure! Thank you for watching!

[@robuxyyyyyyyyyy4708]

At least for the Skyview towers I believe they're connected

[@timon1185]

Hey i Just found your channel today. I've always been a huge zelda Fan and frick yeah i love your content. Thank you and Keep going. Looking forward to See this channel thrive in the future.

[@TsarBomba69420]

This is a great theory! No idea how your so underrated!

[@GossipGeist]

Thank you kindly!

[@kylekraus6722]

I think the Wild series is a redo of OoT. There’s a three way timeline split again. AoC is the Child Timeline, BoTW is the Downfall Timeline and ToTK is the adult timeline.

[@ema_443]

I believed that just because Zelda traveled to the past, she prepared many changes for Hyrule, she made sure that her ganon did not win the war and prepared everything for this new ganon

[@UltimateTobi]

That is now how a closed loop works. When Zelda and Link entered the sealing room, Ganondorf recognized both Link and Zelda (Zelda from seeing her, Link from Rauru announcing him). Zelda has already been in the past. Everything happened as it did, because Zelda was sent to the past. (It's a paradox, because in order for Zelda to influence her own past, she has to be born first.) Rauru is wrong when he said "You arrived from a different future." She arrived from the very future they created. Else Ganondorf would not know nor recognize neither Link nor Zelda from the get-go.

[@MuljoStpho]

Yeah, it's like the previous reply said. Closed loop. The time travel meddling had already happened before the time traveler even began her journey through time. Nintendo seems to like this closed loop concept for LoZ time travel. They used it in SS as well. The world that SS's Link and Zelda grew up in was one that had already been influenced by the time travel meddling that they would eventually become involved in, demonstrated by the crystalized sleeping Zelda in the back room of the temple being visible through a crack in the door before the Zelda in the present went back to start that slumber (plus the reveal that the two Impas in the game had been the same person all along, with young Impa from the present staying behind in the past to grow up to become the elderly Impa). In the past there was the seal that contained Demise, and then Ghirahim from the future appeared and began to free him. Link from the future appeared as well and proceeded to destroy Demise's body and trap Demise's mind in the Master Sword to be eradicated over time by Fi. Demise had only been partially revived at that point and most of his actual raw power was still present in the prison. In the present day this power leaked out of the seal and manifested as the mindless beast called "The Imprisoned" that Link fought throughout the game. Bringing the goddess statue down from Skyloft on top of the seal squished that remaining piece of Demise's power (or at least formed a much more secure seal on it). And though OoT's final trip back in time is marked as different and causing a new branch in the timeline, the general purpose going back and forth in time throughout the game was all meant to fit a closed loop as well, demonstrated by the paradox of where the song of storms came from. The guy in the windmill learned it from child Link, but Link had to learn it as an adult from the windmill man in the future before he could go back and play it as a child. An exception on how they've handled time travel is OoA. Granted, that was done by developers at Capcom, not Nintendo. But the time travel in OoA is explicitly stopping the passage of time and rewriting reality in the present day whenever something changes in the past. What could we call it in MM? The entire game is repetition of the same three day cycle. Kinda like hitting the reset button on a videogame. There isn't much "future" in which to see the consequences to Link helping people along the way since it all ends in total destruction at the end of each three day cycle until the final cycle when the crashing moon is finally stopped. Link is going through a loop but it feels more like he's entering a new timeline branch with each reset. But then Termina's world ends in each branch that Link is forced to leave behind, and functionally every failure world would be identical to each other and the only important distinction is the one version of Termina that he saves.

[@caelenkraft4264]

Really appreciate showing the song names 👍

[@antitheist3206]

Im more concerned about the dragon tears. People in Hyrule act like they showed up yesterday, but (for reasons that are a definite spoiler) we know they're ancient. Maybe the devs don't know how to do time travel.

[@portedcannon5653]

Well, going based off of the Alternate Timeline theory, then they were there in the Totk Timeline, but not the Botw timeline, and the people that act like they showed up yesterday changed timelines like Link and Zelda did.

[@antitheist3206]

@@portedcannon5653 Ah yes, a fan theory for which no counter evidence can fully dissuade someone. Like the Pokemon theory about Ash getting rendered comatose during the first Spearow fight. Not a fan.

[@portedcannon5653]

@@antitheist3206 no need to get so worked up about it, its just a possible explanation.

[@antitheist3206]

@@portedcannon5653 Thinking through the implications is important to theory crafting.

[@portedcannon5653]

@@antitheist3206 yeah I agree, but like I said, It’s just a possible explanation for why people act like they showed up yesterday. I’ll admit, there isn’t any evidence for it, and its probably not true, but like I said, its a possible explanation. I don’t understand what thinking through the implications has to do with this.

[@zalrod]

I think there is a simple explanation to all this, and its a little bit meta: its my opinion that TOTK was meant to be BOTW DLC. When I first started playing it, I told my wife, "its almost like these are powers and mechanics that were meant to be part of BOTW, but were too much to go in the base game." I think Nintendo realized they had enough content to make a sequel, and released it that way. But in order to not confuse new players who hadnt played BOTW, they took out all the things that would confuse new players, or distract from the new tasks at hand. Can you imagine playing TOTK as a new player and coming across the towers and shrines and divine beasts, with nothing to do with them? They would just be confusing elements that make the player wonder if theyve missed something that needed to be done there. My sister is one such player. She just purchased a switch and TOTK and hasnt played BOTW. Even if there was a (mass effect-like) lore dump within the game to explain that stuff, I cant imagine her having the desire to read it all. The devs have removed those as detractors from the game experience, but were so kind as to give us BOTW veterans a little nod, as if to say, "We know that you onow this was a place of interest once, and we just want you to onow that we know you came here and noticed it. So here is a bokoblin hideout or etc etc" Another (and still meta) explanation is that all the previous zelda games are sort of different iterations of the same story/legend. They share a basic cast of characters in Link, Zelda, Ganon(dorf), the fairies, goddesses, enemy monsters, tools/weapons... All while appearing slightly different, as if imagined by different people. Though TOTK is a sequel to BOTW, why shouldnt it follow the same rule (loosely) as the other games, as being a reimagining *as well as* a sequel? Im trying to remember the first time in a zelda game where link was referred to as some sort of reincarnated soul of a legendary hero, suggesting both a connection to the past games, AND clearly stating that this current reality is a new instantiation of past events, or concurrent otherworldly/dimensional conflicts. Maybe wind waker? In assuming this is the same game world as BOTW we open ourselves to the inconsistencies and can noodle and argue about the how or why. The simple explanation is often the correct one, and in this case the two simplest answers are either (a) the world of TOTK was changed for pragmatic reasons in developing an uncluttered sequel or (b) this is, like all other individual zelda titles, a new world/universe/iteration and does not necessarily have to be consistent with its predecessor.

[@CarlosAlola]

The gloom melted the guardians away:)

[@tmtravlrsgoogleaccount1984]

One of the oddest things that I noticed while playing was actually Terry Town... Not the town itself, but the fact that there's a forge under it. We only built the town in botw, so how did the ancient Zonai know that there would be a settlement there? We don't know when any of the other towns were built, so maybe they were around in some form for thousands of years, but no excuse for Terry Town. Or does having a forge in the depths somehow influence people on the surface to built a town there? Also, there are plenty of ruined towns on the surface that don't have forges under them. It seems quite strange to me.

[@myriam_avenger]

So after watching this video, I decided to check out the labyrinths myself and on the last one I checked, the one in the middle of the ocean, at the entrance I read the little diary that has the translation of the inscription and in the Spanish translation (the one I have) the diary says “even though I swear that plaque wasn’t there before the calamity, my memory must be rusting” and it just confirmed to me even more how Zelda changed the timeline

[@nera124]

This would also explain why certain plants just... dissapeared? Like the durians, I used to farm a lot for those in botw for the extra hearts benefit, but in totk no matter how much I searched every durians were gone, some were replaced by bananas but most weren't. It's so weird and it's not like it just went extinct or something like that since there was a pretty large amount in the Faron region and not enough time has passed since the end of botw as far as I can tell. It could simply be a choice made by the developper to make it harder for players to get hearty meals, but if not then the implications are kinda concerning, no? Of course this is probably just saying nonsense but who knows.

[@GossipGeist]

Your conclusion is basically the same as what I had also come up with. I actually uploaded an extended version of this video for my members with two additional chapters that goes over the durian situation.

[@RobotBotRo]

I would guess the reason for all the changes may be due to Zelda. We don’t see the light dragon at all in botw. I would guess she had some sort of butterfly effect on lots of things which kinda made totk a little branch from the timeline. Most thing stayed the same, but maybe Zelda being around convinced them to build another part to the citadel. Or maybe the light dragon fought that giant creature we see fossilized in the previous lanyru tower. That’s my best guess canonically why they are different. Realistically it’s probably because Nintendo didn’t think we’d all notice😂. Edit: by we all I mean you cuz I definitely didn’t notice.

[@GossipGeist]

Lol. I'm pretty sure Nintendo just let their freshly hired environment artists go wild while they passed out on the couch.

[@RobotBotRo]

@@GossipGeist knowing Nintendo they probably did

[@GiraffeBlood]

Zelda going back to the past obviously already happened though. The murals of Zelda turning into the dragon exist at the start of the game, as well as Ganondorf recognizing Zelda and Link. Impossible if the timeline changed after the time travel

[@MoxieWatts]

someone in capt burgersons comments suggested purah turned everything into data...its a neat explaination.

[@GossipGeist]

There's a part of me that would love to Link AoC's lore into the mainline games but I'm hesitant to do so. It's a pretty cool idea, honestly. I believe Koei Tecmo might make a sequel to AoC since technically, Ganondorf is still under the castle at the end of it. One can only hope!

[@Bardomp]

The problem with that zelda theory is that ganon already knows who zelda and link are, so before zelda goes to the past from our perspective she has already been there, so everything should have already been changed botw, so maybe there are two timelines, one where zelda hasnt gone to the past and ganon doesnt know who link or zelda are, and the one we are playing in, where somehow zelda has already gone to the past. In conclusion, maybe there is a missing game/timeline in which ganon doesnt know who zelda and link are when they investigate the castle, because she hasnt gone to the past yet, maybe thats botw timeline and why hyrule is a little different, because in totk we arent the first on the loop, as there is a zelda has already gone to the past.

[@Bardomp]

But idk time travel makes my head hurt, I cant still figure out how the ash twin project from outer wilds works exactly.

[@citrusadee65]

omggg, I reeeally like your content, like ive been binge watching all your videos and it’s such a blast! Keep up the good work💕💕

[@a.jthomas6132]

What about the Spring Dragons? Mineru did introduced Dragonification and why is it considered forbidden in Tears of the Kingdom. It makes me wonder if Dinraal, Farosh, and Naydra are dragonified. And were there 10 Secret Stones if not 7?

[@thesavageone8685]

Where did you get 20 from? 10 is more likely considering the 7 we know plus three dragons and they are powerful rare artifacts

[@a.jthomas6132]

@@thesavageone8685 I mean 10

[@QuasarEE]

Most of these are just gameplay contrivances really and aren't meant to have lore connotations. As others have pointed out, whether anything changed as a result of the time travel or not, the Calamity still happened and must have happened for TotK to take place. If you are for example trying to imply that the Sheikah towers, shrines, or guardians never existed in "this" Hyrule, then why are they still depicted on the tapestry in Impa's house? It makes even less sense than to accept that "they all disappeared" (in whatever way(s) that may have happened) than to try to claim that they never existed, but yet there's still the exact same record of them having existed. Both would disappear from history at the same time if they were erased from the timeline.

[@jollypatra1]

Are we going to ignore the fact that he has a lowered hylian hood and the zonai arm while in the 5th divine beast? 12:01

[@GossipGeist]

Maybe...

[@Mauricio0973]

Also, another weird thing is that it is stated in BOTW that the ancient furnaces collect the energy for Sheikah tech from deep underground, as Robbie mentions in his diary that Akkala is the other region besides Hateno where a massive deposit of this energy exists underground, and yet we can't find anything resembling ancient energy deposits anywhere in the Depths where they could've been located

[@mkjjoe]

Interesting thought experiments, though even if we put video gamey conveniences aside, I'd expect much more drastic changes if timelines had been tempered with. Side note: does your video production involve AI?

[@GossipGeist]

Hand typed scripts, personally spoken voice overs. No AI, although I've been called a robot many times, lol.

[@mkjjoe]

@@GossipGeist All right I've become kinda paranoid especially with scripted videos, but I've seen your final trailer reaction and no suspicion there 😄 Here it's probably the audio/visual sync when you appear that made me think audio may have been generated, and being caught off guard by a couple jokes when I was very much into the facts only made me more curious. I guess that's how efficient current AI can be (with lots of guidance). Anyway it doesn't matter, good video 👍

[@GossipGeist]

All good, I think it's honestly a double edged sword that people gravitate towards me being AI or a robot, it's like, a compliment sort of? But then again, it's also an insult, but a funny one. Always laugh when people think I am one.