5 Steps to Write Insanely Good Fantasy Villains

[@Jed_Herne]

Want to write better fantasy characters? Join my free 5-day course: jedherne.com/5-day-course

[@sirothtakanashi9707]

I think I'll be joining this course my friend. I very much appreciate all the advice, I spend hours on listening to advice and I write as I listen otherwise I just forget the advice , and your advice is sound. It feels fresh, I feel like other channels are just rewording old advice. Or using chat gpt, in fact I use chat gpt so much I can recognize it in their script. If your using it, nice, because I can't tell at all tbh. I'll gladly join the group so yall can destroy my main character lol. Looking forward to it.

[@johannageisel5390]

Sounds like something I could need. Sometimes I really like my characters but at other times they remain bland. Thank you for providing this resource.

[@ludwigvannormayenn8657]

I joined the course today, I am very excited to learn more

[@Developesque]

I am so close to finishing my first fantasy novel, and I love it. Probably won't sell well (no audience yet), but its the first major milestone to a series of them. Thanks for the guidance along the way!

[@dukenukemforever6912]

Can you tell me the story in one sentence?

[@robsright4256]

Congrats, man! Slow motion is better than no motion! Keep it up!!

[@iwilldestroyjustiny6446]

Wdym no audience? Now I'm curious, would you mind saying what it is?

[@Developesque]

@@dukenukemforever6912 The Demon of Capra Town follows street-rat teenagers Callen and crew as they navigate the harsh realities of a dying port city, coming of age with no hope for a future while seizing power amidst crime and corruption-only to face the true cost of survival and revenge. Ran that sentence for all it had, haha.

[@Developesque]

@@iwilldestroyjustiny6446 Wrapping up the final edits, about to self publish as my first book. But my plan is to write a trilogy and promote that when the time comes. Not really thinking about money, just wanted to write a great story using as many best practices as I could master.

[@DieBieneFranz]

I think more "one dimensional Villains like Sauron also work, when they are more a mysterious, mythological concept than a distinct person. There is no redemption possible with Sauron and he is the personification or the concept of evil itself. This makes the danger "he" creates much more inevitable. Predictable in goals, but overwhelming in the existential threat like a force of nature and near god like unbeatable

[@DarwinRoger893]

I love these kinds of villains

[@camdenthompson4307]

true, Pure evil villains are just as good, if not better choices in some stories, than just standard antagonists.

[@hebercluff1665]

​@@camdenthompson4307 You can also have pure evil villains with unique motivations. The demon lord in the book I'm writing doesn't care about conquering the world or destroying it. He's just really irritated with how the gods of creation "didn't do a very good job". He just wants to "fix things" by remaking them into "what they should've been". (The place this demon lord was born in was a special dimension where all forgotten thoughts fall. When the gods of creation were making the world, they had many ideas for things that they didn't end up going with. Many amazingly imaginative ideas were cast aside because "they didn't mesh well together", or a thousand other reasons. This demon lord was born from these forgotten ideas. He was infuriated that the gods chose all the most boring and mundane ingredients to build the world with. He's basically that coworker who throws a fit because the managers are incompetent, or don't do things the way he would do them.)

[@camdenthompson4307]

@hebercluff1665 true, the god I'm making actually starts with an incredibly simple motivation (he just wanted to rule the universe as he views himself as the perfect being), but later actually loses and decides to switch his plans from simple conquest to downright mass torture of the entire human race, specifically those who were responsible or connected to those responsible.

[@thesnatcher3616]

Sauron in lotr is definitely more or less a force of nature for sure. A constant reminder of what Frodo and company are fighting against. Gollum I feel is meant to be the more "grey" and "personal" villain within Tolkien's narrative.

[@alantrevor3658]

Also, I believe "Booktubers" or "Authortubers" or whatever the appropriate term is sometimes worry too much about "originality". Speaking ( well, actually... posting) not as a writer but as an avid reader, I find a hackneyed, cliched villain (or magic system, or world design, or whatever) that is WELL EXECUTED to be vastly preferable to an original one that is poorly executed. I don't know to what extent that is common or uncommon among readers in general.

[@PhoenixCrown]

Good point. As an amateur writer, it's easy to think we need something "original." Fortunately, I'm also a businessman, so I know ideas are cheap, and it all comes down to execution. I agree with you and will happily read an "unoriginal" story that's written well and delivers on its promises. EVERY story is original, because the author always has their own take on things, style, voice, etc.

[@katgreer6113]

That's true. Right now I'm worrying too much about being original. I need to stop that.

[@alantrevor3658]

@@katgreer6113 "Even in literature and art, no man who bothers about originality will ever be original: whereas if you simply try to tell the truth (without caring twopence how often it has been told before) you will, nine times out of ten, become original without ever having noticed it." C. S. Lewis

[@DavidbarZeus1]

A simple meal well made is always enjoyable, to use a turn of phrase from another KZbinr on issues like this.

[@dr.sleaseball441]

I am writing a story that is full of cliches but with twists. for example the protagonist is "the chosen one" only to find out he was just being used.

[@FCSchaefer]

That opening scene from Inglorious Basterds is a must see for anyone struggling to create a believable villain. Hans Landa uses no weapons or super powers, just his words to get what he wants.

[@PhoenixCrown]

Only Tarantino could write that scene =)

[@Makememesandmore]

Crystal (MC) is a Shadow wielder (nobody likes them) and is trying to hide her powers. So when Zara (bad person) finds out about that, she just blackmails Crystal into doing whatever she needs

[@Jed_Herne]

One of the best movie openings ever.

[@bl8388]

I still watch it from time to time. One of the most epic villain scenes ever. A great villain is one we love to hate.

[@dbsommers1]

Except Christopher Waltz is what really elevates it. On paper it was just good. Coming from his mouth, it was great.

[@justanormalhumanbeing1903]

I don't typically like writing fantasy, but all of your tips in most of your videos can basically be applied to any genre and they work so well

[@rogue]

It feels like what defines a villain all comes down to how much they're happy to sacrifice to achieve their goal, even if the goal itself isn't really a bad thing.

[@allaniadall9686]

I have a few villains that have a trait like that. Could I show you?

[@jameydunne3920]

I think that may be because to many people, the worst evil is unchecked selfishness or self importance. A good villain is often a mirror to the positive traits the protagonist or reader has, and was often a teaching tool as to why the moral codes exist.

[@N2and2Uzi]

@allaniadall9686yeah fire away bud

[@allaniadall9686]

@@N2and2Uzi Here's my list. I'll describe them when I have the time. Brutarus Rosamind Nokirk Josephine(Actually, she's more of a monster than a villain. There's a difference.) Fenyhorodzo Shadow Hound/Jathar RWood

[@N2and2Uzi]

@allaniadall9686 woah those are good names…

[@gabrieleriva_bboykappside]

A trope i really like with villains is the "flawless" idea: they have something in mind that can change society for the good and finally solve most problems that afflict it, but this causes a part to have to succumb to whatever the plan requires doing. It is a sacrifice, though, the villain is willing to make, if it allows to achieve great progress. It's a really used "trope" and rightfully so, it does offer quite a lot of discussions and points you might make where the villain might (or is) actually right, and not stupidity for not having consudered the consequences.

[@hanarielgodlike9283]

I love to hate those kinds of villains They resonate well with me because I had to deal with a lot of "the end justify the means" people in my life so much that I developed a hate for this types.

[@katgreer6113]

I thought that was cliché?

[@hanarielgodlike9283]

​@@katgreer6113 Whether something feels like a cliché depends on how often you've encountered it before and how tolerant you are of that particular idea.

[@WestOfEarth]

This plays on the idea that idealists rarely consider the consequences of their vision. Stalin was an idealist who understood the consequences and embraced them. The character from the Watchmen, Ozymandias, is also of this flavor.

[@gabrieleriva_bboykappside]

@@WestOfEarth well the villain knows is a sacrifice he's going to make so he embraces it tho

[@giuliaidiometri186]

Hi Jed. I don't know if you will ever see my comment. I write some fantasy stories, but I follow your channel ecause, even if I don't just write fantasy, and I post them in a free website online (not Wattpad, an Italian website because I'm Italian), your advice is so incredible, that I follow your channel and I'm subscribed to your newsletter. Tomorrow I will read Fires of the Dead and on Monday I'll start Across The Broken Stars. I'm a blind girl, it's not easy for me to have books, because I have to buy them and my dad has to scan them for months before I can have them, so I waited a long time, and finally I got this novella and this book. I love reading fantasy books, even if I read thrillers and romance, too. You have a beautiful voice! Thank you for helping writers like me.

[@Loki_Lover3000]

Ciao, anch'io sono italiana. Di cosa parlano le tue storie?

[@Jed_Herne]

Thank you for the kind words! That means a lot. I hope you enjoy the books :)

[@OlympicWriter]

Ciao. Can you access Kindle ebooks? You can have devices read it aloud (I think just on computer and tablet right now. But maybe more were added). I love it-especially when I can’t find an audiobook of it.

[@sjonnieplayfull5859]

KZbin does not always send notifications of a reply being made, making conversations harder for all. Adding this reply so maybe a notification comes through and you can read the previous replies as well

[@kaeyabedilucsbrotherpls]

got it lmao

[@starhalv2427]

One of the villains I made is an old mob boss, who is unrivaled now but in the past, when he was still leading a common street gang rather than a huge criminal empire, he lost his son when fighting another gang. After raising his grandchildren, he decided he doesn't want to lose anybody else to criminal life, and understood that no criminal empire lasts forever, and so he began making moves for his grandchildren to become businessmen and politicians, paving the way for them to build their own, perfectly legal fortunes with no relation to his crimes. Paving the way includes a lot of morally questionable stuff, but also working to prevent wars from breaking out or political scene becoming cutthroat and corrupt, all to allow his grandchildren to keep hands clean as they rise to the top.

[@Vensauno]

You villain is surely very human and interesting. If it's not too much then can you drop more lore for him. I'm hooked to his character.

[@starhalv2427]

@Vensauno I don't exactly have more lore on him, will make more when I run that D&D campaign, but I can drop some lore on the world he's in: For the most part it's a standard fantasy world, but for centuries legend persisted of a tree somewhere, that could grant eternal youth to anybody who ate a fruit from it. This tree was already found over 500 years ago, but it was found that it only produces a single fruit every 40 years. But if anything, this rarity only encouraged conflict, and a hundred years war began for control over it. After 112 years of war, it was resolved and future conflicts prevented from happening by estabilishing a combat arena right there, in a giant fortress surrounding the tree- every time a new fruit was about to appear, a tournament would be held in which one could either fight to get the fruit, or to be paid handsomely by a sponsor who wished to take the fruit for themselves- that way no more worldwide wars would be fought for it. A bit under 400 years later, a bustling city was founded around the arena, and another tournament is about to take place.

[@Vensauno]

@@starhalv2427 thanks a lot. I was struggling with my lores because I tried to make them realistic. Thank you for making me understand that good fantasy role doesn't have to be realistic, it should just make sense. And all the best for any projects you come up with. You are quite a creative person.

[@starhalv2427]

@@Vensauno thanks

[@anqiren5345]

Uh, respectfully, have you maybe heard of the Godfather series? The novels I mean. Not to be discouraging, but this can hardly be described as 'a villain you made'.

[@SleeveHeart]

I just realized a good way to do this. Start with the mentality that you're going to redeem them eventually, even if you aren't. I wrote a villain who i planned on redeeming from the get go, and he's a lot of the things you mentioned. So i knew i had to make him someone with qualities that could be turned towards good later, someone you admired who "had a point" even though he's not quite right, who just had a case of really screwed up morals and a grudge against the right people. The thing is, he's so complicated now that if i decided to not redeem him, he would still be so freaking compelling, and a bit terrifying because in so many ways he's not wrong, and his skills compliment the hero's so well. And though most people don't like him, those whose loyalty he gains is due to his wisdom and skill. He would be a terrifying sight to behold. Because good people begin to follow him before he's fully redeemed, and if he was never redeemed and just turned into a more well rounded villain, every single one of them would need to either become corrupt like him, or eventually turn against him when its possibly too late. The heroes would need to step up their game for sure.

[@safyullahjawid8592]

This sounds so exhilarating to me Do tell me the title so I can check it out. And your social so that I can keep up

[@milicadiy]

​@@safyullahjawid8592Same

[@anamazing2297]

I'm sort of doing this with one of my characters! Except, they don’t fully realize they're the villain, or why they've done evil until the end when they embrace their true self. They're a complicated soul 😅

[@milicadiy]

@@anamazing2297 Omg same. Do you want to tell me more about it?

[@anamazing2297]

@milicadiy I'll just say the bare minimum, or the summary might become a whole book in the comments 😅 So, my character steals something in the very beginning by teleporting away with it. However, teleportation only works on physical bodies or items, so her soul stays behind and attatches to a "doll" she prepared beforehand. This would normally be fine (black magic, but fine), but between her teleportation spell and her soul being deposited into the doll, a catastrophic event occurs, shaking things up, and causing her memories to essentially be wiped. She's got a loyal minion who guides her back by the end, regains her memories, and promptly tries to wipe out her new friends (the protagonists) and anyone she no longer likes anymore. She gets plenty of chances to redeem herself, but chooses evil *_so fast!_* [Edit for grammar.]

[@cogliostro704]

Inspector Javert is such a disturbing antagonist. His dedication - with the right focus - would have done so much good, but instead he leaps to his death. You can fill reams of notebooks with a list of villains who earned their last minute redemption, by a sudden heel-turn followed by death. Javert might be the only antagonist to earn his "villain" title by leaping to his death. Both tragic and deeply infuriating.

[@PhoenixCrown]

So good. There's a reason this has stuck with us. The fact he cant reconcile what he dedicated his life to with this newfound worldview is powerful.

[@chialk]

The villain vs antagonist tip also applies to hero vs protagonist. In school, a lot of teachers will use the term hero and protagonist interchangeably, simply because the stories you read as a young kid normally have both as the same and because it’s harder for children to understand that not every story follows a good, reliable narrator

[@ultrahotwings9738]

I love villain protagonist stories. It's why I love Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced.. although some will argue that the protagonist isn't really a villain.

[@alfredocheese8645]

I still in highschool using these vids to help with my dnd arcs but this is still some of the most useful stuff on youtube thanks Jed

[@reaganmonkey8]

As I was watching this, I started to think of my favorite fiction villain, Grand Admiral Thrawn from _Star Wars_ who first a lot of them. 1. He wants to keep the empire alive or bring it back 2. He is very cold and calculating. He doesn’t have a hot temper. He thinks about everything. 3. There are some scenes that show him looking at various pieces of art and explaining the significance of 4. Maybe just that he is really dedicated to his cause 5. While most villains would be hot headed, he thinks about stuff calmly. When he does get angry, it is after long meditation and planning.

[@Legend39]

Im kinda late, but im thinking of branching out my writing from Sci-Fi to fantasy, and i always like to start with the villain, so i thought i would post the draft here. Damon Reqiuem (born Daelen Aldrest of Hallowlight) was formerly a noble, who became a paladin of Valdross (God of Law and divine arbiter of justice). Daelen was the devout knight-captain of the Order of Dawn's Hammer, a paladin order of Valdross. On a mission into the nine circles of hell to rescue innocent souls, he found his sister Mira, his aunt and uncle, as well as his two cousins. Upon return to the order's monestary, his sister and cousins were condemned by Valdross for unknowingly benefiting from a forbidden pact, made by his aunt and uncle. Bound by duty, Daelen led them to the stage for execution, but as he heard his cousin's pleas, and saw his sister's grim acceptance, he forsook his oath and stood against his god. Declared a heretic, Daelen was stripped of his power, forced to watch as Valdross manifested an avatar, took his family’s lives, and cleaved him through the heart. Yet, due to either sheer willpower and determination, or some unknown force, Daelen awoke seven days later to find the monestary abandoned. Taking the name Damon Requiem, he reclaimed the grounds as a sanctuary for mortals betrayed by the gods. He discovered that he could not age, and dedicated his time to aquiring arcane knowledge and artifacts of power. Over centuries, he crafted six weapons capable of slaying gods: a scepter, a greatsword, a warhammer, an arcane tome, a longbow, and a spear. Now, he wages a war to liberate mortalkind from the tyranny of gods, as in his eyes, the gods are tyrants, blind to the suffering they impose on mortals for their own gain. He sees them as cosmic parasites, feeding on worship and souls to serve themselves. Edit: Forgot to mention, he has sworn to never kill a mortal that can be redeemed. He sees the value in all moral life, and only kills when he HAS to. The first time the MCs face him, they get demolished, but he revives them, telling them to look around the castle, as he only wishes to see them thrive. The MCs find their way to what used to be the prison, which is now a mausoleum for his family, and everyone else who has had their lives stolen by the gods. (also, his sister's ghost is a reoccuring character, she sends the MCs on the quest in the first place to try to stop her brother, as she believes that the gods are part of the natural balance, killing them would have cosmic consequences. But until she appears in the mausoleum, they have no idea that she's a ghost.)

[@emilyrln]

That sounds really good!!

[@captainsirk1173]

I have a 2000 year deity level villain who's trying to discover whether he could have chosen differently. The central theme of the entire story revolves around agency. Behind the scenes, the villain is putting the protagonists through the gauntlet he feels he faced in a desperate attempt to discover once and for all whether monsters are born or made. I don't think he'll ever get the chance to explain himself though, and I don't think the protagonists will ever truly understand, so I'm hoping I can imply it well enough via his cryptic riddles and the mechanics of the magic system he implemented for readers to get at least some of it.

[@milicadiy]

Sounds cool. Best of luck with writing your novel.

[@ethanquirk28]

One thing to point out, even in this video, is that there is a modern obsession with making villains have some sympathetic backstory where they start with a common sense of morality but something goes wrong along the way. In my experience doing this does the most to box you in. Note that evil acts are hardly ever rational so you don’t need to confine yourself to rationalising them. Some people are just born broken. Pride is a more consistent motivator than justice and pride will lead to any perceived slight against you to require corrective justice. Some people just want to watch the world burn, a la Michael Caine. The most important part in making a villain’s character believable is not that they have a grounded sense of morality but that all of their actions are consistent to the morality that you give them. You can get away with a lot of beats so long as long term the character sticks to the bit. Consistency above all is what sells a character. Also note that origins don’t have to necessarily start with when a character decided to become what they were, they can start where a character became known for what they were. I’ve never seen anything wrong with being allowed as a reader to create a bit of my own backstory to fill in the gaps. It creates discourse, it allows the reader to invest more with their own creativity, so long as the stage is properly set.

[@admiralcasperr]

8:50 I like to say "The Opposition", then it encompasses anything working against out character.

[@Sollisteria]

Good to know my antagonist was already designed with unique motivations and an interesting moral compass.

[@SirBolsón]

Being an aspiring author whose just started writing their stories, I appreciate this advice. My stories are based off of JRR Tolkien's "The Hobbit" and LOTR, as well as GRRM's ASOIAF, so these tips will definitely help me with creating the villains I need to capture my future readers.

[@unicorntomboy9736]

My writing is inspired by Joe Abercrombie's works

[@SirBolsón]

What works does he do?​@@unicorntomboy9736

[@SirBolsón]

@@unicorntomboy9736 What books does he do?

[@unicorntomboy9736]

@@SirBolsón You mean gene? A lot of them are grimdark and dark fantasy novels

[@SirBolsón]

@@unicorntomboy9736 Yea, that's what I meant. Any that you would personally recommend?

[@lawrence9806]

Not sure if anyone will see this, but I love writing interesting villains. One of the ones in a story I'm authoring is this great, extremely powerful hero from three hundred years ago who stopped the greatest threat to the world in all of history. Only problem being that his powers revolve around warping reality, and grew to the point of tearing the world apart at the seams just by him existing, leading to him being sealed away for three centuries until one of the main character reawakens him. His ancient adversary managed to cheat death, however, meaning that the great hero needs to quickly find a successor by any means necessary, leading to him destroying and fortifying the town he was imprisoned under to get the main characters to train hard enough to defeat him/prove themselves. If he can't, the damage to reality he causes will become permanent and all will be lost, forcing him into a villain role he doesn't really want to play.

[@milicadiy]

What an interesting villain and story. Please keep me updated.

[@lawrence9806]

@milicadiy Will do.

[@milicadiy]

@@lawrence9806 Thanks.

[@1silverwhisper8]

Wow, I LOVE this idea!

[@lawrence9806]

Feel I probably should've mentioned this earlier, but this villain is for my main project, which is actually a webcomic, I suppose you could call it. I did it this way in order to have more clarity with the fight scenes since my choreography tends to be really intricate, but since it isn't technically a novel, I thought I should get that out of the way incase that isn't anyone's preferred sort of thing.

[@bluejayblaze1180]

The antagonist in my current project is very much a villain-villain; he's meant to come off as a bit over-the-top and clearly morally bankrupt, with a bit of scenery chewing. But despite being legitimately soulless, he's still a person. You're introduced to him attending his sister's funeral; you see him interacting with his family and pursuing a romantic subplot and losing himself in his music. And his motivation for all the horrible things he does is fear---fear of death, specifically. Which leads him to do some horrible, horrible things.

[@milicadiy]

Cool. Best of luck with your project.

[@prathameshrana2099]

If you are writing a book on how to write fantasy. Please add ever questions that a newbie gets when getting into writing. Like what to work on 1st plot or character, Or How do I actually make conflict meaning full Etc etc.

[@faceshed]

Hey, this is all great advice for making a character in general and it's great to see you apply it to a villain, but I think you might be missing that little extra something that leaves a villain haunting the audience long after they are defeated. The story should have a tone or meaning and you can think of the main character as being a philosophy that you want to impart on readers. Really great villains are a rival philosophy. Harry Potter stands for love and friendship, and V-word is selfish and twists others to his will. What makes him stick with people is that -it works-. You CAN be selfish and it DOES help you, at least at times and for a while. That fact makes people itch for Harry to show them the way. The villain is the greatest challenge, because he is the hardest selling points of your philosophy.

[@noemibors9379]

You're just saying things everyone could point out in books or movies. After watching I always feel like 'man, I already knew this, but now I can articulate it'. That's what makes your lessons so valuable to me, and I really enjoy the eloquent, elaborate presentation. Thank you, Jed!

[@milicadiy]

As someone who's almost finished writing a fantasy novel with a villain protagonist, I found this video really helpful. Thank you for the amazing advice.

[@jellycore1316]

Ayy, awesome! ^^ Congrats on nearly having it completed, if it isn't already, that's awesome!

[@milicadiy]

@jellycore1316 Aww thank you 💖 It's almost done.

[@milicadiy]

​@jellycore1316I finally finished it after three years of writing 🎉

[@Makememesandmore]

This is perfect timing! I was just about to start writing my villain characters, so this is perfect! One of my characters relentlessly torments my protagonist and threatens to reveal their secret if they don't do what they say. But they only do this because someone else higher up told them to do it

[@safyullahjawid8592]

Bro don't spoil it before I even get the chance to read...😊 Do tell me the name, I feel like I'd like the book by knowing About this detail about the antagonist alone

[@milicadiy]

​@@safyullahjawid8592Yeah, I'd like to read it too. It sounds so interesting.

[@BoyKagome]

Ozzymodius wasn't locked in the room with Rorschach , Rorschach was locked in there with Ozzymodius.

[@ironencepersonal9634]

I have been thinking of giving a villain the motivation desire to make a difference. Not power necessarily; they don't _want_ the power, though it is a means to the end. They don't even care if they are never remembered as being the one responsible for whatever happens. All they want is to leave their mark on the world. To, at all costs, do something in which the consequences will forever ripple forth through future generations, not caring about whether that thing is something good, or something bad. It's a little sociopathic, in a way. Obviously for the sake of the story, this thing will end up being a bad thing.

[@MegatronTheDominator]

Shattered Glass Optimus Prime did a similar thing. Dew it. İts preety interesting.

[@rolandsahlander2239]

Great video as always Jed. Can't wait until the next.

[@Millennial_Republic]

I’m glad I stumbled upon your channel! I just started my fantasy novel and I’m just starting Chapter 3 at the 8,000 word mark. These videos have been super helpful especially for formatting and world building.

[@itsmonkeytime5032]

I've been going through your videos every now and then and I think this video really helped me with my villains for a dnd campaign for me and my friends. I kinda struggled to get a good motive for them, I already had really everything set up for them, like their main backstories and what they actually do. So hey, maybe Shvorne, the Apostle of the Bleeding Grace will be pretty fire

[@joelmartins5874]

Hello sir, I recently came across a video of a card game you created called “Not Chess”. I really liked the idea behind the game, so I went on the kickstarter website and saw it has been cancelled. I would still like to have a copy of the game and was wondering if there is any way I can get one. If so, please let me know!

[@EzekielBread-fv1xc]

you know what, I was trying to think of a good idea for an RPG antagonist I was making and this very much helped.

[@donalddwamae444]

i think power and legacy are intertwined in terms of motivation

[@Calebgoblin]

Ah, but have you considered: more number make algorithm go brrr

[@lanychabot-laroche135]

Yes, trying to become immortal is a super common movie trope.

[@Gingy911]

The villain I’m using in my story is more of the force of evil type, and I’ve known that for a while now, but I saw the thumbnail to your video with the 99% rule, and I initially misunderstood it. I speculated that it meant make them 99% evil with just a hint of goodness. I put that together with what I’d been thinking about, and it helped me so much! Basically, the villain is the Devil, but he cares incredibly deeply for his followers-possibly more than the good gods do-so he weeps every single time one of them dies. He’s super sympathetic towards his followers, and I think it adds a new direction to his character. Thanks so much for all the awesome and helpful videos!

[@TheDoomKnight]

I have a trilogy of books in the works: The Doom Knight, The Doom King, and The Doom Knave. In the first one, both the protagonist and antagonist are paladins and close friends. As the story progesses, events happen that leads the antagonist to take actions against his friend, specifically wanting to find his little brother whom he believed to be dead. When his little brother accidentally dies by his own hand, it tips him into becoming a full-blown villain, and he sets onto a path to become an outright tyrant so he can rid the world of all he deems evil so what happened to his brother will never happen again. In the second book, the protagonist of the first, due to choices he made in that book, becomes the antagonist and his wife is the protagonist. He sets out to rid the world of all "magic", as he deems humanity too corruptible to use it. Meanwhile, his wife, not believing he has completely fallen into darkness, searches for a way to bring him back, even if it means stripping him of all his power. The third book, the villain is Hell itself. With the protagonist from the previous book having been successful, the two try to live a normal life together and get back what was taken from them in the first book. But Lucifier seeks to claim the last remaining source of power on Earth for himself. When they realize that even with the combined military might of the greatest kingdoms in the world, and the power bestowed upon them by the source, they are still outmatched, and the protagonist from the first book must make a decision: become The Doom Knight once more or watch all he loves crumble beneath Hell's heavy fist.

[@xShr00msx]

Great video. Another aspect of creating an antagonist: don’t. Not initially. Write out options, politics, conflict. Villains are everywhere in the real world. If you’re intrenched in the world you create, one, or multiple, will manifest themselves. I followed the rule of 3 for my campaign. Always open up multiple options that are all “right” or “good” depending on your player’s knowledge, intuition, or allegiances. But then I also created a true villain, that, once reveled, will unquestionably unite the other factions. What’s nice about this is even if my players decide they like the villain enough to side with him (as I went out of my way to make him both generous and reasonable) there’s still plenty of conflict left on an epic scale.

[@rockbandny]

To be honest, this is great advice for non fantasy villains. My story is a sort of domestic horror. About two guys who are sort of in love in the 1960s. The main character sort of came across the other guy, the main character becomes the antagonist as he's just stuck existing with someone he neither likes nor asked to be with.

[@OndrejS]

What about Love as a motivation for a villian? You could go multiple ways about this: The villian tries to save someone he loves/ is precious to him. He is almost forced to be a villian just because of that one person/group. The I lost everything is also another approach, the villian would be so destroyed by his loss (in my mind rn is murdered by werewolves) and now the villian is dangerous for everyone around him and even himself…. (and especially against the wolves for a greater story) Just some random ideas that popped up in my mind loll

[@N2and2Uzi]

Or an even better trope, the villain is infatuated by someone and will stop at nothing to make them happy

[@ihaetschool3361]

hal stewart from megamind! he's basically an incel with too much power.he believes that he's entitles to roxanne after saving her

[@templin7]

1:41 I love this idea especially when you take it a step further by proving to the reader that the antagonist is right. It leads to fun moral dilemmas.

[@TheJGAdams]

9:10 Villain isn't a limiting word. It describe someone to be morally wrong. It's a thematically important trait. I don't believe in gray character. Every villain think themselves good but are evil non the less. Gray character are hardly any different from that.

[@S.P.Witchell]

Wonderful video! Unforgiven is a completely new movie if you watch it with Munny in mind as a villain aping reform. The swell of villainous music at his exit sells it, The Sheriff is just strong arming order into the wild west and preventing bounty hunters from a killing spree in his town. Munny leaves his children and tells himself that he's just helping a friend but in reality he just misses the blood and screams. That first drink he takes in the movie is his release and the end of his fake redemption story arc- in a way this is a happy ending because he has come to a place of self honesty and acceptance of who and what he is. What he was always meant to be.

[@altinaykor364]

so both of the two main antagonists which I have written for my two books, are well written😁this video made me knowledge that, thank you💗💗💗

[@mr.dr0bot731]

The antagonist villain example i like to use is: Iron Man in Civil War - Antagonist Darth Vader - Villain

[@JamesJohnson-l5j]

I’m almost done with my first fantasy novel: the Sharpsword chronicles, the reunion of the wizards. 🧙

[@lorettalynn2610]

I think you need subtitles, it helps

[@Saffi____]

A channel called Shadiversity has a book where basically a powerful ruler who is the worst of the worst, having committed some of the worst atrocities has a second chance at life and decides to try to redeem himself. Having to deal with former victims of his actions and his own personality,which is still cold and cruel, as he tries to change. I haven't had a chance to read it, but the part of the video on a villain's redemption reminded me of it.

[@johannageisel5390]

There is a two-part review of the book on the channel "Westside Tyler", titled: "Shadiversity's BORING Novel is also INSANELY CREEPY" and "Shadiversity's MOST DISGUSTING Opinions REVEALED". Just in case you are interested.

[@FilipeLeviSilva]

It has MANY problems, but I still enjoyed it

[@drewrussell8531]

@@johannageisel5390 Not saying those videos are necessarily wrong (I haven't read Shad's book nor have I paid attention to his channel in a while because he's annoying) but it is genuinely hilarious to me how the titles here are EXACTLY the same as those from the kind of deranged right-wing culture war slop that Shad often represents these days. Again, not saying they're wrong, but I can't help but notice a lot of people seem to mindlessly hate Shad for the same reason he mindlessly hates all the things he hates: political bias and cultural absolutism. Just saying, be careful you don't end up falling into the same mentality of "this person thinks wrongly so literally everything they do is bad and if you don't hate them you're bad too." Edit: decided to look up the book for the first time in years and I guess even a lot of Shad's fans thought it sucked, lol. My point still stands, though.

[@Unknown-27-28]

My villian has a simple motivation. Restore his ancient empire😢😢

[@johannageisel5390]

Realistic. There is a guy like that sitting in some bunker in Russia.

[@TY_Tianyou]

​@@johannageisel5390 I'm thinking more into Britain and Japan

[@TY_Tianyou]

Same. Or rather, his people. This villain of mine is a Spaniard who romanticizes Phillip II.

[@MrDJFlyHi]

How do I contact you to get more advice

[@serox8887]

I like the concept of antagonistic force even more than antagonists because an antagonistic force can be everything. It can even be the protagonist himself

[@Jack_Winters_Wintercold55]

Can you make a video about original conflicts because that’s the main thing I’m struggling with I can make the villain but what they are fighting over is what I struggle with thank Jed keep it up love from Pakistan ❤❤❤

[@konigstigerr4518]

something that has helped me a lot is thinking of villains as "the hero from a previous story", their development is done, they have their answer to a given problem (i.e. the inciting incident), but it's irreconciliable with that of the hero. this way, they're not necessarily evil, but opposed, and it works to avoid making them moustache-twirlers while also making them relatable and even redeemable without a phony sob story.

[@KauanHenrique-ie7nu]

My antagonist is a counterpart of the main character, in the way they both believe in the same thing but aplly it in complete diferent ways, they both wants to make their society strong, but while one believe in getting help from the ones that already are having sucess, the other just want to close them all so they cam prove they can improve just by them selfs. sorry about my english.

[@camdenthompson4307]

Currently been working on making several characters (pretty much on minor characters now), but I noticed one thing I often did with my antagonists is that I'd usually have multiple, and that I'd often try making each one different from the last, but still connected. So in essence if you have a sympathetic antagonist like an old, corrupted hero or a former friend, I'd usually attempt to try and differentiate them in comparison to not only the protagonists, but also other antagonists, such as using a sniveling rat-of-a-character, a cunning manipulator, a force of nature, even a pure evil villain, who you could even do some unique character connections like making the previous antagonist their protege, or being the ones responsible for a characters trauma, or even the Protagonists trying to redeem the new antagonist, only to later find out they're actually committed fully to what they want to do (think Venom from Spectacular Spider-Man, or Mahito from JJK, where they're contrasted by more sympathetic antagonists). The simplest example I could come up with was with the original Kung Fu Panda trilogy and its antagonists. You first have Tai Lung, who is a Snow Leopard with a tragic past who trained all day just to become the dragon warrior, and is known for his absolute perfection of Kung Fu, but was never accepted. Then in the second movie, instead of yet another powerful, Sympathetic antagonist like Tai Lung, you instead get Lord Shen, a Pure evil, highly intelligent peacock who's just a bit insane, but yet has multiple layers and almost passes the villain territory and into full on Nemesis territory (which is almost its own can of worms) which is completely different from Tai Lung. Then in the third, you do get the weakest antagonist being Kai, but ultimately he is different enough from the other two to be his own character, as he's focused on Spiritual abilities rather than something like Tai Lungs physicality or Shiens Intelligence. He's also kinda in-between Tai & Shien as he's not as personal to Po as Shien, but not as sympathetic as Tai Lung, making him kinda into a pure evil villain. So yeah, highly recommend that if you start writing, you try to make a diverse range of antagonists (also helps if you have a theme, like in Kung fu Panda where its Body, Mind, & Soul. or even with Batman, where each antagonist represents a different part of Batman but twisted in a certain way to become evil).

[@PhoenixCrown]

My antagonist is pursuing what he believes to be the greater good, and we learn at the climax of the story that "it's personal" too. He thinks concentration of power is really the best way forward for his society--and the only way he'll ever get his son back.

[@scottcrysel]

Another awesome video. Thanks!

[@CarnelianEmber]

I’m writing a story with a group of friends, which makes characters so much harder to write, especially since we all have unique writing styles so it’s really inconsistent, but also really fun. Especially since I seem to be the only one who bothers to prepare and think ahead for future sequels. Also because we have literally no info on the antagonist so far even though we’re five chapters in.

[@IllegalCheeseCake.]

Just finished reading a book called Skulldugery Pleasent where the villian is so unrealistically evil it gets kinda scary. He doesn't have a good motivation at all but he does stuff like kill the families of his enemies to kill his enemies while their in a blind rage

[@RBunny-lol]

In my novel immortality means "live forever, but not unkillable." If you're immortal but your opponent is stronger than you, or at least on your level of power, you can die at their hands. And mortals who gain immortality without the blessing of the gods, their soul withers/erodes until they eventually die a few centuries later.

[@valentina_fantasy]

Great! Many thanks indeed!

[@shushumini123]

This made me realize that my antagonist isn't the 'big bad' guy, but actually the supporting character that has been with my protag since the start. This is going to make it so much more heartwrenching...Hopefully my readers will suffer with me too 👀

[@LimpAnarchist]

And we have a perfect, very captivating and completely bloodcrazed example -- Wildwood boys, by James Carlos Blake and capitan Anderson. Yes, yes, THAT Anderson, Bloody Bill, they called him.

[@Geminias]

I find that the most interesting villains are ones that are seen as legitimate or justified based on their positioning. Beyond that, the only thing necessary to have a good villain is to have them find little ways to one up or circumvent the heroes plans. Dolores Umbridge is a fantastic example of this. She's been placed in charge, and she constantly finds new ways to antagonize

[@Vensauno]

I had written an antagonist for my novel i will soon start. Some context, trevenalin are alien spirits who connect with human souls to provide them magic. They are emotionally just like humans. So the antagonist is afraid of being forgotten. She experiment on many trevenalin and traumatized them. She is also a popular political figure who is known for her craziness. She doesn't like hurting others but never hesitates to harm or kill someone, because she is driven by a desire. A longing she had since childhood. All the boring days of history classes she spent, learning about bland monarchs and dictators who are doomed to be forgotten. She want herself to be remembered forever, no matter the cost. Her motivation comes from unforgettable personalities like the brilliant Einstein or the demon Hitler. She will be an interesting history chapter.. no matter what.

[@NickNab]

Hey Jed, what do you think about characters who don't speak the main language everyone else does, and have to learn over the course of the story, while they work with the other characters? Is it annoying?

[@Curiefeld]

I have two antagonists. One is a twisting of the pure of heart trope. He's an aspiring god who genuinely means well and is pure of heart. He wants peace. Love. For everyone to belong. But there's a problem. He can't grow up. He's forever mentally a child. Nieve. Trusting. Easily manipulated. Has a childlike view of the world. He doesn't understand how to persuade people because he's a child. He often resorts to magically charming people and charming away all culture and difference from entire universes to bring them on board. Not to mention all the people who manipulate him. This is villain 2's intent - a scummy American preacher based off of Kenneth Copeland.

[@PhoenixCrown]

Oooohh that sounds good. A bit of the wormtongue vibe there, or hades or the devil, a manipulator whispering in the ear of the figurehead or really powerful character. Keep on writing!

[@marketabartova8195]

I recommend checking some videos about Miquella from the game Elden Ring, as he is similar to yours - son of a goddes, destined to take her place, but cursed to be an eternal child. He sees the cruelty of his mom´s world order and wants to replace it with an age of love and compassion. The first part of his story is very well done, made him an intriguing character, but then a dlc released, which gave his story arch an unsatisfying end. He was very liked by the fans before the dlc, but after it he is seen by many as one of the worst villains of that game. You may find it interesting, I think it might help you with your idea.

[@joes_bankaccount]

Ahh yes Kenneth Copeland. Excellent, I’m intrigued

[@doge8825]

Have you seen the Owl House? Not going to spoil in case you haven’t but the second half of the show has a very interesting dynamic between 2 villains (or rather, a villain and an antagonist) that I think you’d appreciate

[@Jonnell01]

You were thinking of Miquella weren't you?

[@lordinquisitordunn336]

Judge Claude frollo from hunchback is the kind of villain that we need to see more often

[@henrynewton8267]

A question sir. I have a post apocalyptic fantasy world that I hope is unique 😅. One of the pov characters starts in a military industrial city and becomes a cyborg before escaping said city (something akin to city in the stars) and entering the wider world. Ive had this as a short opening scene but think it could easily be a short novel on its own. I don't want it to feel misleading though. He is unaware of the wider world so it's meant to be a kind of surprise for him and the reader. Quick thoughts? if a may be so cheeky 😊 Love your work by the way. I'd sign up for the course if I wasn't so poor haha

[@HyotumReal]

I’m working on a villain that is the mentor of the main character. They’ve fallen into a sense of despair as they try to find a way to join their loved ones in the afterlife. He goes on a rampage killing strong individuals who might be able to kill him. But to everyone else he acts cold and seems to murder mindlessly. He kills everyone indiscriminately if it will help towards his goals. What’re his goals? To die. Whether he has to destroy everything to destroy himself or die trying. But before his final battle, he adds another goal: to become an enemy so powerful that everyone needs to gather and ignore their differences to beat. To create a peace born through chaos and destruction.

[@DracoPlaysYT]

I've been working on a book for a bit. The problem is, i haven't worked on it in a bit because i haven't had that much time. I'm usually doing gaming and KZbin and stuff, but i always would like to write more.

[@okapifarms9698]

Im trying to write my first ever fantasy novel, and this is my villain concept. What she wants more than anything else in the world is freedom. She was trapped inside of the subconscious of her sister for her entire existence. Her sister's subconscious is where every single negative emotion she's had about herself resides. Being surrounded by such thoughts warped her, drove her mad. She ultimately (and quite wrongly), blames her sister for the way she is. She sees her sister's attempts at self actualization as pushing all those horrible thoughts onto her. As a result, she seeks revenge, somehow.

[@Marcela-tx7gh]

I've recently been interested in villains with flat motivations, like power for power's sake. It feels realistic, and maybe I'm tired of all these sympathetic villains even though villains make for some of my favorite characters lol I firmly believe you can get away with an antagonist with very little to them if you make their actions really impactful for the protagonist(s), which gets you a very hateable villain.

[@vgvegan9372]

Recently, I've begun to think that humanized antagonists are often more appealing than flat ones or sympathetic ones with the latter usually involving a cookie-cutter sob story and what if question in the background. An antagonist that is driven by power but also cares about their immediate family can often have interesting character dynamics and conflicts in a way sob stories don't provide on their own.

[@Marcela-tx7gh]

@@vgvegan9372 If you can understand where a character and have an interesting character study, yeah the character will be engaging to read. Right now I'm in the mood for stories where I don't "get" the villain and focus on protagonists, side characters, etc., but all types of villains have a space, depending on the story they're in and what the author is trying to do.

[@PhoenixCrown]

@@vgvegan9372 Good point, and @Marcela-tx7gh too. I think there's a place for both of them, and you need to choose your antagonist(s) based on the story you're trying to tell. In LOTR, for example, Sauron represents and absolute evil, corrupted, unyielding, unforgiving, unredeemable, an existential threat the mortals can't even fully understand but must defeat to save the world. So he's mysterious, has very little screen time, works through his "henchmen" largely, and certainly does NOT get a POV. In my story, the main antagonist is one of the MC's grandfather. He's trying to do right by his family and his people, but he's blindly following tradition etc. to the detriment of the planet. We get in his head more than once in the book, see his motivations and flaws. When the characters come together in a mostly-dialogue climax, we understand both arguments. We still want the protags to win, but their hesitations are realistic because the antag makes compelling arguments.

[@RBunny-lol]

​@@Marcela-tx7ghThe final antagonist of my novel is the older twin brother of the main character. His name is Vorin Ravenscar, and he was once apart of the group. But when his wife dies he slowly loses himself. Eventually after a quest goes wrong, he was thought to be dead. He actually survived but now he has a plan to brig his wife back. Only her body was destroyed, but her spirit remained. He tries to ascend to godhood by taking the souls of mortals, so he can create a new body for his wifes spirit to inhabit. His younger tiwn brother Eldric, and old friends try to stop him, and a war breaks out. Eventually Eldric and their friends stop him Bleeding out, Vorin has one last trick up his sleeve. He casts a spell, binding his brother and friends souls, cursing them. Once all of them are dead, their souls will be reincarnated without thier memories, and the cycle will begin once again.

[@swarple]

I think the issue is that those aren’t always flat motivations. There are a lot of real people who did horrible things just for money, power, etc. with no sympathetic motives, who pretty much knew they were scumbags but didn’t care because they benefited from it. Corrupt businessman and politicians, cult leaders… people like that. But these people were still, y’know, people. Real people who existed. And a lot of time they’re some of the most terrifying people who ever lived, because they knew they were evil and didn’t care. (Or they considered themselves above the concept of morality.) Not all villains need to be sympathetic to be well-rounded and three-dimensional. It can just be hard to pull off.

[@jj-sc1kq]

This is very interesting. Thanks for the interesting video. Maybe I should join your 5-day course.

[@5BBassist4Christ]

I'm actually feeling pretty confident in my story's antagonist. He was a great warrior who wanted to be the savior of the world, but got told by his military advisor that it is not his destiny to be the sole savior of the world. In protest, he lead his most faithful followers into a series of military victories, until one crushing defeat killed all but three soldiers in his army. In search of redemption, he got into politics hoping to build a reputation there. He arranged for a certain woman to be his wife (their law code does allow certain forms of arranged marriages), but she was in love with the story's protagonist. So she ran away to be with her true lover, and the antagonists used his political power to create a controversy, elevating his own influence, and forcing the protagonist and his lover to flee as refugees across the world. I actually have the entire story condensed down to a single song on Spotify called The Human and the Elf by Kenton Park.

[@milicadiy]

Wow. This is so cool. Where can I read it?

[@5BBassist4Christ]

@@milicadiy Thanks. The book is not complete. I'm still working on the first draft of it. It's a passion project more than a career builder, so I'm taking my time with it. But the song version is available on any music streaming service.

[@milicadiy]

@@5BBassist4Christ Cool. Best of luck. See you :)

[@PhoenixCrown]

Great stuff Jed. Anyone have thoughts on WHEN to use the 99% rule on the antagonist? Similar to the protag, one of their first scenes? This brings up something that probably varies greatly between stories--when we INTRODUCE the antagonist. The protag is usually in the first scene (or very close). Sometimes people start with the antagonist, but if not, I feel like it can vary a lot. Love to hear thoughts on when and how to do this effectively!

[@RawFish2DChannel]

In my opinion the short version of this is that villain/antagonist is not supposed to be only evil, antagonist just happens to opose the protagonist while doing things that are considered by protagonist and/or his friends and readers as evil or unjust. And also antagonist can view himself as a good guy doing good things for himself or people close to him, because after all people can and will have different view on the world and whats evil and what isn't. P.S: I'm not a writer btw.

[@jimpickenscult1378]

Literally all my villan wants is multiversal silence because they can hear everything that happens in existence

[@johannageisel5390]

That's an awesome motivation.

[@marltonmanks9891]

That explains a lot about the Dear Leader 🤔

[@TheKulu42]

I'd say Little Bill, played so well by Gene Hackman, wasn't the typical corrupt sheriff. He was trying to keep the peace in the town, but ready to use brutal and amoral methods to achieve that goal. I like your advice about giving your "villain" originally.

[@agathaofcamelot]

In the School for Good and Evil, the antagonist has a very interesting motivation. He was one of the leaders of the School and did something so evil that his side was cursed to never win in fairytales so he does insane things to make Evil win forever. He goes as far as to convince his kids, even after he died, that they’re the heirs to the throne of the most powerful kingdom just for this goal.

[@IntaminFanGRLPowerCoasters]

One of my main villains is seeking revenge on a city that rejected him. The other is more complex. She develops a strained relationship with her younger sister (the narrator of the novel) because she decides to become close to the other antagonist (the revenge seeking guy) because her parents are pilots who travel across the world (it's a steampunk book), and she doesn't really see them much. She is pressured to weild a magical storm staff that takes control of her through dark magic, thus beginning the main conflict of the book.

[@yvesgomes]

Original motivation and the 99% rule were fresh tips. Thanks!

[@99jean88]

I found a interesting concept for a villain in a novel from the 30's. (Octavio de Faria's: A tragédia burguesa) The villain, Pedro Borges, is morally better than the hero, Branco, in just one aspect: He is a very empathetic person. Our tragic hero has a strong sense of morality and justice, but he is unable to form any meaningful friendship, for his is a loner who likes to spent time with his books. His biggest virtue/flaw is his uncompromising atitude towards his peers, who he alienates with endless discussions. Meanwhile the villain, although amoral and his only virtue is mostly used for evil, can make friendship everywhere he goes because he tries to supply their needs.

[@theaprentice6437]

2:13 My story kinda has this. In my story, Romulus (one of the founders of Rome) discovers that he can drain mana from people and extend his own life, becoming an eternal leader for their new empire. (This kills the victim.) His brother is horrified and tries to stop him only for Romulus to take his mana. Later, he claimed it had been a dule, so as not to cause problems. Romulus then forms a cult known as Dira Dominorum (not sure if the latin is correct but I’ll work that out later). They feed on innocent victims. They live in the shadows and after the fall of Rome they make the mistake of feeding on members of a coven (the Kentashra) who go to war with them to save innocent lives. After thousands years of fighting, another magic using race (the Tiophianiaran) encounters the same problem and comes to the aid of the coven. They almost defeat the cult, but are never successful at destroying their leadership, including Romulus who has become this horrible, dark abomination not recognizable as human.

[@aidanwright9598]

I feel like a really good villain is Lord Sulleth from The Legends of Ace Ford The Northern Travels. He is similar to Sauron in the sense he is like a force of nature yet he is still very unique as a villain.

[@martinboudrias9631]

One of my favorite fictional villains is Lord Darcia III from Wolf's Rain. He does what he does for love. He just wants to heal his comatose wife, and he just needs the same thing the protagonists need to do it. It really makes him sympathetic, even as he does increasingly terrible things to save her

[@Alyssa-bv8pm]

My villain does have the classic revenge thing, but they also have the connections motivation. The revenge thing is because the character deserved being exiled, but they try to justify themselves in their head and take revenge against their whole community. They also, though somewhat unknowingly, get the main characters siblings in their side, but they don’t even manipulate those characters much. They also had a close connection with the main charcter, so that’s physiological stuff too. You get to know the character before they’re exiled, and they mentor the main character. I will say, they are ‘evil’ (though I like just calling it ‘bad’, cus that means they aren’t just a pure evil entity that has no good, bad just means they do/did something bad), they do fight against their while community. Originally, they were going to be fiercely loyal to their community, and they weren’t going to be a villain, they were my first character, but y’know how things go sometimes… anyways, the distinct choice they would make would be to take action against bullies who insulted their apprentice, but go a little overboard with it. I guess that’s not a key moment, theirs better moments, but they come later. They save another character from abuse, but most would do that anyways. I guess they don’t try to hurt their former apprentice? Thinking… They also don’t force characters to stay in their group.

[@jesustyronechrist2330]

I think the best villains are not really "universally" villains, but are just the worst person to go against for the protagonist. A foil, basically. But an extreme foil. Yes, this does have the effect of making your villain "Immoral" if your protagonist is arguably a good guy wanting to do good. But what if your protagonist if the baddie? What do you do with the villain them? Make them literally worse than Hitler? So thinking the villain in the restriction of "gotta be evil" limits what kind of protagonists you can write.

[@johannageisel5390]

If you have a villain protagonist, then the antagonist does not need to be villainous by objective standards. They can be just an antagonist. For example, they could be a cop (or fantasy equivalent thereof) who really wants to see the protagonist in prison and the key on the bottom of the ocean.

[@DragonguyA]

Is it wrong to make a villain being evil for evil's sake? Like "This is Bob. Bob drowns puppies in his spare time to stay immortal so he can continue his evil plans on murdering an entire race or two. We don't like Bob."

[@lukesmith5018]

I like the relatable point. I might write about an Austrian painter who gets rejected from art school. People will empathise with him so much, I think I'll struggle to highlight how villainous he is.

[@starwarfan8342]

You should write a book about that struggle and title it My Struggle

[@TheMichaellathrop]

So I saw a video recently from just in time worldbuilding about immortal characters, and I kind of like the idea of combining that with a sort of amoral "for the greater good" kind of villain. Imagine you have some immortal adjacent wizard who has been a major power behind the throne for this whole dynasty how long would it take before they start being willing to inflict mass suffering because it will be good for the country over the next few generations? At some point it doesn't really matter to them anymore how many people die over the next two decades to ensure a century of prosperity. A fun thing to do over the course of a series could in fact be to have the plots of books two and three be the things that the book one villain was trying to stop, exploring a more nuanced and cynical version of right and wrong over each subsequent book.

[@johannageisel5390]

This reminds me to the Effective Altruism crowd, who also care more about the wellbeing of the potentially existing billions of people in the future instead of caring about the actually existing people of the present. If you are interested in the topic, both JohntheDuncan and Philosophy Tube have a long form video about the topic on their respective channel.

[@joshuathompson9346]

A brilliant way to make a villain really cool is to not make them obvious, let the reader slowly figure out who the true villain of your work of literature is and even maybe spread that idea over multiple books in a series

[@Enderlinkpawnu]

One of more interesting villain motivations in my opinion, while maybe a little counter intuitive, are the villains that... don't really have a "good" reason, to their villainy, if they even thought of one at all. These villains are painted to be these brutal masterminds, maybe they are tactical geniuses in their own right, brutal and sadistic that have caused great pain to many innocent people, but in the end when push comes to shove when they were asked that simple three letter question of "why," they reply with a shrug and say... something quite mundane, vapid, or maybe even insane. This reason could vary from it being a whim, to them just single mindedly chasing some solitary goal that in the grand scheme of the overarching plot, is basically a non-factor, or otherwise doing their villainy for really stupid reasons. Of course, not all stories can do this, and this is much better supported if you have additional antagonists and villains with their own goals and motivations. But I think it's an interesting subversion to come to learn that a major antagonist of a story has done everything they have done essentially on a whim. It's hard to pull off, and I can see why people would tend to avoid it, but it has been done well in the past. A prime example of this is Maleficent from Sleeping Beauty (referring to the Disney movie). She is one of the most well-known villains of Disney's catalogue, and the ultimate reason as to why she kickstarted the entire plot and cursed Auora was because she wasn't invited to a baby shower. There are other examples of this too, both old and new, that I have seen, read, and played through that I would say were executed quite well.

[@TheTransparentGuy]

About the first point, I was originally going to have my villain want revenge, but now that I saw this, I’m thinking of leaning more towards a version where he just has no control and gains satisfaction from killing dragons, as that’s what he does. He’s supposed to be under the influence of this magical gem that controls people, so it’d make sense if he had no self control at all

[@nightmarishcompositions4536]

Griffith from Berserk and Sephiroth from Final Fantasy 7 are my favorite types of fantasy villains. They’re very powerful, evil and scary, and have tragic messed up backstories that don’t try to excuse their actions, but rather explain the origins of their twisted motives, desires and malice towards humankind. They’re pure evil, complex, slightly empathetic in some ways but never at the expense of being absolutely unforgivable psychos that have done irreparable harm to the world and the main characters.

[@Chudi2000]

I read a sample of Across The Broken Stars and it was so gripping I immediately ordered a physical copy on Amazon as soon as I finished reading all the sample chapters in one sitting last night. I could literally see you putting all your advice into practice in just those first few chapters. The Vahrian Inquisitor is such an intriguing antagonist, and you really weren’t kidding when you said you make your protagonist suffer lol. And this was your first book wtf! It’s honestly so good it makes me hate my current WIP 😂

[@NourSalem-pb2nx]

1:30 is a perfect example of jet from atla, the fire nation took everything from him, so he wants to take everything from them. The main villains of the series are ofc the fire nation but jet is a different story, he could be considered a villlan with a good motive but bad ways of achieving them. For example he wants to cause a flood to a fire nation village, and he’s ok with risking the lives of innocent fire nation children all to punish the fire nation soldiers

[@veroxid]

The only 2 cents I would want to add is that I slightly disagree with the 2nd motivation you mentioned: the greater good. My only reasoning is that this *_was_* a rarely used one until it became the go-to for almost every movie villain now a days. Pretty much every superhero villain thinks they are the hero.

[@johannageisel5390]

That's what I was thinking too! And I also think it sends a bad message.

[@veroxid]

@johannageisel5390 "objective morality" is arguably a much worse message to teach.

[@AnomalousVixel]

I'm here trying to figure out how to make my antagonistic forces more... philosophically relevant, we'll say. Right now, I'm playing with the idea that the BBEG faction, which uses Borg-like assimilation methods, is driven by two entities: an idealist who will stoop to any level as they seek the freedom of all people from their world's "gods," defense from interdimensional forces, and prevention of conflict... and a being who's been driven so terminally insane by isolation that in their desperation for connection they've created the assimilation method and shared it with the idealist, offering support toward that "greater good" goal in eschange for fulfilling their obsessive need.