10 Worst Ways to Start Your Fantasy Novel

[@Jed_Herne]

If you want to write a compelling opening in your fantasy novel, then check out my First Chapter Mastery program: firstchaptermastery.com/ (This also includes the option to get my personal feedback on your writing.)

[@FoxShade777]

Thank you so so much for being a KZbinr that helps us about writing. Your one of the most trusted writer that I lisstion to!

[@Hingeyboy]

@Jed_Herne Jed, involving the section about characters waking up, I want to write a story where there's a "utopian" city(not really, but something like that). the character wakes up and does normal day to day stuff but gets involved with the conspiracy about the city. he eventually get caught, and has his memory wiped. then the next chapter starts with his routine the same as chapter one. Should I change this, or start with a prologue? I honestly don't know, but I would love to here your advice.

[@DanielS-yf4me]

you provide such great resources to passionate writers, but im wondering if you have any video plans to help non-writers start writing. Ive always been more STEM inclined and never enjoyed writing in school, but now Ive suddenly got the interest. Im still not sure how to ... just start. Its a daunting task thats been looming on my mind.

[@samuelesanfilippo222]

Random question, what about a dream about a traumatic memory, are they still so irrelevant? When you want to show a moment that is relevant in term of the character personality and history?

[@Chudi2000]

@@Hingeyboy How good is the hook that you leave us with at the end of your first chapter? Does it make me want to move on to the next one? I’ve only just started reading Jed’s writing (making my way through a sample of Across The Broken Stars) and the first chapter was so good that I have to buy the book to see where the story goes. The chapter begins with the protagonist working at their mundane, dead-end job, *but* Jed quickly makes us realize why he started the story when he did. Things start off “normally,” but there’s a crescendo in intensity until we reach the end of the chapter. Make sure this is happening regardless of whether things start off normally or not. For example, in the 1st chapter of Across The Broken Stars, interesting things were happening even though the protagonist was experiencing things a lot of us have experienced or witnessed before: working a job we hate for people we don’t like, getting emasculated/humiliated by a dominant ethnic group, etc. So when the chapter ended, I was legitimately intrigued because Jed had done a good job of establishing certain expectations and stakes, that’s how I knew sh*t was about to go down in the next chapter. Do that in your novel and you’ll be good.

[@alexmcgilvery3878]

One of the things that I’ve noticed in modern writing is that writers are more and more encouraged to start with the inciting incident. That misses the opportunity to show the world before it falls apart. It is possible to have conflict, stakes and choices in the normal world leading up to the incident that breaks it. It is hard to empathize with a character’s loss when we don’t get to see what it is that they lost.

[@PyroOfZen]

I like to have a false-start inciting incident which propels the MC into the real inciting incident. A mini plot which resolves early on, and has relevance to the main plot. Something to keep the readers invested while introducing them to the world.

[@antimatters6283]

The obsession with "inciting incident" is a plague of using rote instead of thinking and analysis. It is formulaistic thinking. It has some validity, but also, it can be in conflict with what is needed from the writing. I've never read a book and wondered "What is the inciting incident!?"

[@The_Trident_Master]

Yeah, my story starts about two chapters before the inciting incident to show the relationships the characters have

[@ZetoTarken]

@@antimatters6283 I think in most good works the "inciting incident" is delayed at least long enough for you learn a bit about the people being incited. If the inciting incident is supposed to upset the balance of the main character's world, well you have to see what their balanced world looks like before you upset it. And I also see multiple incidents throughout the novel, one or two small ones to pull things along with a big incident that leads to the climax happening much later. Harry Potter, for example the Hogwarts letters come in the 3rd chapter. And even the later books start with a section on how Harry escapes the mundane after a chapter or two reintroducing the reader to the world. But the incident that kicks off the core plot of each book is much much later. Chapter 9/10 is where the first book brings up the mystery of what's behind the forbidden door and that someone is trying to get past it. That's about halfway through the novel.

[@c.s2193]

@@antimatters6283I’d argue that every story has an inciting incident, whether you realize it or not. It’s the event which makes the story happen in the first place, and you might not think about what the inciting incident will be because you already know. Most blurbs directly tell you or heavily hint at it. "Patricia's life was perfect BUT then X happened and she has to do Y to get her old life back" or something along those lines

[@albyto3382]

the biggest flex of all time would be combining all or most of these and doing it well

[@BigDaddyJinx]

Sometimes, just sometimes, doing the opposite leads to some degree of success. You may be on to something. LOL

[@ShyDigi]

@@BigDaddyJinxhalf of these are literally done in some of the most beloved franchises… i wouldnt be surprised with such a small subject pool

[@Superiorrod]

@@ShyDigi sanderson uses a ton of these

[@Makememesandmore]

If anyone manages to make one for my story, I shall be impressed

[@Xobik1]

Don't fucking write. Only give views to youtubers who love when you have been clickbaited...

[@xault]

My thousand-word prologue right before the chapter one dream sequence that doesn’t expressly state it’s a dream:

[@MaryaKostakova]

And then as soon as they wake up, the character gets dressed and does their usual chores.

[@xault]

@@MaryaKostakova Not even close, actually. They walk through woods to get back home, shower, then go back to sleep.

[@sparrowjax275]

@@MaryaKostakova they put on their ahutamanana clothes and their kikidaneratury hat and eat their trumuffer breakfast

[@MaryaKostakova]

@@sparrowjax275 This is Priceless! 🤣🤣🤣

[@TrainWithTom]

But you’re so original, the rules couldn’t possibly apply to you! You’re the exception. You’re so different! Your book defies expectations 🙄

[@JushuaProvido]

The Lord of the Rings breaks at least five of these (a ton of characters, slow pacing setting up a freaking birthday, lots of made-up words, lots of exposition on Bilbo and the Shire, possibly irrelevant scenes of Shire life) and still manages to rock XD

[@TapirMask]

Lord of the Rings has the benefit of the reader knowing it's Lord of the Rings, I imagine a huge amount of people picked it up after the movies just to bounce off exactly what you said!

[@JushuaProvido]

@@TapirMask Er, ish. The Lord of the Rings was received with mixed reviews long before the movies (when it first came out), even by Tolkien’s own literary group, and I’m assuming they had an issue with its noncompliance with at least some of the rules mentioned in this video. And yet, despite its shortcomings, The Lord of the Rings eventually won awards and became the gold standard for High Fantasy long before Peter Jackson ever touched it. In short, eh, it’s a bit of a stretch to say that people only give its flaws a pass because of the movies.

[@Josh-r3q]

Also important to frame Lord of the Rings as a particular style. Tolkien was at least trying to make a more mythology influenced work with a lot of language hooks and world building. The Silmarillion was even more of this he seemed to view it as something that Snorri Sturluson would have been working on.

[@jasminv8653]

Hi im the one who sent the pinecones! Unfortunately it's an example from a real novel 😭 I wish i could take credit because it wouldve been so funny, but it really is the biggest fantasy writer in my country right now who does that. The first 3 pages had more than 10 neologisms & place names with NO explanation to any of them. And you were just expected to somehow follow along. Some of them weren't explained until several chapters later but they still kept getting mentioned. It was so hard to read fr.

[@QuatarTarandir]

That's horrible. Like even some brief description of what something looked like would work, it could be just a short part of a sentence

[@ewellynn122]

This feels like some of my courses in university, where they use a lot of words they only explain in speech and don't write on the online documents, so when I try to study I'm suddenly confronted with PRBS and CDMA and I can't find what the hell it is.

[@fredrikfjeld1575]

In Malazan nothing the character would know is explained. Because why would someone explain something to someone who already is familiar with it. And why would the POV think about how stuff he knows how works, works. That goes for people, the magic, places or in general the plot. I think you start to grasp the magic system by book four, at least a little, you understand who 1/3 of the people are and how the army and main country works around book five. Which means things that are in the first chapter of the book is explained 4000 pages later. Gardens of the Moon is not an easy read. Neither is the second book, which is a totally different place and characters.

[@Milkymalk]

I actually like prologues that "info dump" on me. It is like a "you need to know this in advance"-primer on the world or the events, and as prologues tend to be not very long, I know it won't take too much time to ingest it.

[@josiahwilkinson4334]

Yeah, I think that info dumping can be mixed in well *if* the scene is actually interesting to read (like a mentor lesson).

[@alyctus]

Me too! I actually get frustrated when authors will drop something, especially a world-building thing, later on instead of the beginning and then I have to re-imagine it.

[@TheWitchPrime]

Imagine if we combine all of this into one and create the worst possible opening ever.

[@xoso599]

Well we have our writing challenge. The high action and low stakes fight of an unknown character that talking about world building lore using nonsense terms while fighting with a mysterious entity. Commentary is provided by twenty named and described characters making references to events that are never explained continuing for over fifty pages. Just to find out it was all a dream about an event that happened over a thousand years ago, before getting a lengthy detailed description of the morning chores of a farm hand that ends with them greeting the actual main character. Oh and as a bonus the narrative doesn't return to this character for over seven books but only then to get an update on the how the chickens are doing. Spoilers for book 8; They are doing fine and are laying lots of eggs.

[@TheWitchPrime]

@@xoso599 lmao 🤣

[@es330td]

Will it begin “It was a dark and stormy night…”?

[@samuelesanfilippo222]

I guess you've never read korean manhwa?

[@Milkymalk]

@@xoso599 Much of it sounds like the Hobbiton scenes of the Hobbit, minus the action.

[@LordHayabusa85]

7:30 Prologues aren’t pointless, they often serve as a thematic or narrative framing device to help slowly introduce the reader to the world within the story.

[@Lark88]

It probably isn't the prologue itself. I'm guessing it's because many of these other rules are broken during a prologue.

[@MeemahSN]

@@Lark88 or the fact that some people just suck at writing prologues.

[@fiktivhistoriker345]

Prologue can work as an info dump. Then the author should make sure that the information given is relevant for the plot.

[@Lark88]

@@MeemahSN Well, yeah. That was the implication.

[@unhommequicourt]

Yeah, literally what the last segment of the video says.

[@markwarkentin5395]

"Readers are like baby ducks" !!! I have felt this way when reading an excellent story or novel book. I imprint soon and strongly.

[@_Seph_]

Honestly about prologues... ASOIAF's first book A Game of Thrones has one of the most iconic prologues I know and it's overall pretty liked by the community... yet it's exactly what the readers you asked hate: - First of all the prologue exists. - Second of all the relevance of the Others isn't really there at all in the first book as whole. (they don't even appear at all in the second book if I remember correctly.) - The characters immediatelly died, never appear again, weren't important in the main story whatsoever. Literally some people who "won't matter for the rest of the novel" and not only novel, the serie overall. And it still is a GREAT prologue! So I disagree with this point, because... it depends really. If you know how to write prologues, even those with "possibly bad things" in them... it can still be great.

[@ImperatoChri]

Also it puts almost immediately a ton of named characters, yet I loved it (Even though in the first book I had to check the name catalogue every 2 pages😅)

[@Riavens_ゼロゼロ一]

Rules are made to be broken

[@OhitsONnow]

This could be one of those "you know the rules well enough so you can break them" moments. Like if youre starting at baking FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS. If youre ages in? Freewheel it. You know whats up

[@diewott1337]

Technically, one of the characters in that prologue survives... To be executed in the next chapter LOL

[@absolutedesi5899]

It was great because it set the grimdark tone of the story.

[@DawnbreakerBooks]

“Ben woke up. He was surprised by this because when he’d fallen asleep, he’d done so with a sword through his chest.” (Sorry couldn’t resist 😂)

[@Jed_Herne]

That's actually great

[@Amie13Hussain]

Well, that's one way to hook a reader

[@LanternKng]

This is such a good hook I want to learn more and/or use it in my writing

[@DawnbreakerBooks]

@@LanternKng go for it! I just write that cause I saw the thumbnail lol

[@ZetaFrFr]

This is incredible lmao

[@hamzamotara4304]

"Starting with action" _The Sanderson Mafia would like a word with you_

[@Rocco049]

Not me immediately commenting about Sanderson when he says that

[@zenwhirlpool]

Worldhoppers Unite!

[@korbentherhino]

Im writing a novel and it includes action at the beginning. But action doesn't have to be turbo charged excitement. a simple fight can do wonders compared with big battles from the get go. It can convey what a character is about and the world is about without exhausting the reader with high octane.

[@Ellthom]

I was guilty of writing the 'confusing battle scenes' opening so many times when I was younger. I don't know why, but I seemed so intent to think it was a great way to open a story :P

[@Kaede-Sasaki]

Many movies do that.

[@Ellthom]

@@Kaede-Sasaki I think it does work better for movies the sole reason that movies are a different medium and its approached very differently than books.

[@OhitsONnow]

Mental images in the mind put to paper. I do a lot of that..😅 looking back vivid imagination might not be conveyed well in another minds eye

[@diggeroldmate8122]

I really don't see the issue if it's written well. If everyone did the same thing, books would be boring - which they kind of are these days because, much like music, it's become formulaic.

[@evancombs5159]

It works great if the intent is to put the reader in the shoes of the main character who is just as confused as the reader.

[@aaronbourque5494]

"The day that everything changes"! Yes. This is some writing wisdom it took me only years to learn, but decades to articulate. When does the story start? When everything changes.

[@ivel2934]

Some complain about Stormlight's prologues, but I love them. They hooked me right away, and did a great job at establishing everything, they're filled to the brim with Easter-eggs and foreshadowing.

[@Rocco049]

Two of my favorite parts of Stormlight so far are the assassination of Gavilar and Kaladin’s last battle before getting enslaved. I’ve seen people disliking them but they’re just so cool and set up the world so well.

[@zenwhirlpool]

I've loved the different character views of that scene. It's cool to see

[@emilyrln]

@@Rocco049 I especially love Kaladin's last battle under Amaram because it shows us his brilliant leadership, tactics, and prowess with a spear, which makes it all the more painful for us to then see him so beaten down in the present.

[@powertogame5558]

@@Rocco049 Honestly, the second prologue with Kaladin is what hooked me into WoK. Szeth's rampage was awesome, but the sudden shift from Kaladin enjoying a relatively high position under Amaran to suddenly being a slave made it really hard to put the book down as I just wanted to find out what happened in that battle to cause that. So I guess it wasn't really the prologue that hooked me, but the sudden contrast between the prologue and his first real chapter.

[@fredrikfjeld1575]

@@Rocco049 Those are cool. The prologue with the Heralds in the time before had me do a big "meh" and postpone the whole series for 6 months.

[@rant1p0le]

You couldn't have chosen a better time to upload this. I decided to start my first draft today but realized I didn't know how I wanted to start it

[@Jed_Herne]

Hope this helps!

[@CosmicColiseudoCaos]

@@Jed_Herne for me it was an hour late, i posted my first chapter today, but i think i was ok with that ;)

[@theblindartist8345]

Start with a dream sequence info dump by a secondary character who is killed immediately and never mentioned again as your first prologue (you should have several, each 4k+ words).

[@38.thachthaolehuynh20]

Meanwhile, every time I felt like I about to have an ok chapter 1, I found more mistakes and more ways to make it better. Until now, I haven't got past the first chapter

[@etorobassey4532]

same bro. Thanks.

[@Gag1800]

One thing I thought of when you were discussing Prologues, is the potential for new writers to write their novel too much like a movie, and how there are things that just don't work as well when implemented into written form. I hope one day you could do a video on avoiding these pitfalls

[@zombie2360]

duuuuude I really struggle with this, a video like that would be super helpful

[@mbrsart]

The novelization of The Last Jedi begins with one of those pointless dream sequences in which Luke dreams that he had never left Tatooine. It has no bearing on the story, is never referenced again, and doesn't really elucidate anything about Luke's character.

[@GOffUnit]

Although every Star Wars movie begins with an iconic info dump descending through the stars, and they seem to be pretty popular.

[@vileluca]

Last Jedi media being terrible and bearing no meaning? I'm shocked. Shocked!

[@michaelbrauner758]

They butchered Luke in Disney Star Wars. So no surprise here.

[@ghostdreamer7272]

This one I actually understand. The highlight of the story is Luke’s regret, and giving up hope. So it’s interesting for a reader to realize the farm boy who desperately wanted to leave, and brought down the Empire, now has regrets. And informs the big arc of his and Rey’s and Kylo’s story.

[@ModuliOfRiemannSurfaces]

So it’s a scene that fits right in with TLJ’s storytelling?

[@JanbluTheDerg]

Readers: Prologues bad Me looking at my Animorphs inspired/journalistic prologue: Oh no Jed: Well, try to keep them short Me looking back at my prologues: Thank goodness for your 300 words

[@Space.Panda1805]

Animophs, OMG how I suffer that last book, whyy that ending? Last five books where soo good.

[@Makovarus6s]

Wow this really brings me back! I remember reading fanfics that took place after the last book!

[@samaron8970]

One of the most effective fantisy opennings I've seen is the prologue to wings of fire's first book, before the prologue, there's a whole prophecy that establishes the basic plot: three warring queens, five dragonets will hatch to stop the war. Openning with a prophecy is fairly standerd, but in the prologue, one of the queens kills one of the dragonets in its egg, and everything is thrown into question, can the prophecy even come true with one of them dead? It also establishes the world as a very dangerous place and one of the main antagonists as a ruthless villain. It uses an established convention and then subverts it to create the hook.

[@animistchannel]

The Prologue That Worked: “In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a hobbit-hole, and that means comfort.” This simple setup set the tone of the whole book. It was a good place to come from, and a good place to get back to. Everything in between could be as fantastical or adventurous or horrifying as it would be, and this would be endured. This told you everything you needed to know about why you might want to go Out There, but you would also want to go Back Again.

[@Kaede-Sasaki]

While Khloe fished in the pond, she caught a huge one. She pulled it out. It was a readerfish. Thats how you hook your readers. 😂

[@quintessembo]

When Khloe fished in a pond, she found herself staring at her biggest catch yet, YOU!

[@memory-of-a-dream]

Just a few meters before reaching the crest, Sovden stopped to once more to look at the sky. Even without visual aid, he could easily see the ship started throttling down. He'd followed the launch sequence so many times, he had it all memorized by now ... 4,3,2,1, main engine cutoff ... stage separation... second stage ignition... boostback. Another flawless dance of metal and gas streaking across the evening sky. He had no doubt about it. Or did he? Why had he taken his first vacation in 5 years to the only place in the country he was guaranteed to see the launch?

[@laze4534]

While Khloe fished in the pond, she caught a huge one. She pulled it out. It was a readerfish. The fish bit her hands. It was poisonous. She died.

[@OhitsONnow]

​​@@quintessembo Sounds like the start of a cheap feelgood romance novel just stupid enough to be brilliant I'm in.

[@emilyrln]

⁠​⁠@@laze4534 Chapter 1: Now that Khloe was a ghost, it was very difficult to find fishing gear that she could manipulate with just her ectoplasm.

[@tgm2474]

What a sneaky series of sales pitches! I won't be back, but I do respect the effort.

[@hjge1012]

One that I really dislike, but that some say is a good way of starting a novel, is when a novel starts somewhere in the future and then uses the rest of the book to explain how they got there. It's probably not universally bad, but it's bad in 99% of cases. The only place where I didn't really mind this opening, is in The Name of the Wind. And that's because the future version isn't anything to look forward to. He's just an innkeeper and there isn't really anything that gets taken away from the reader. Moreover, the whole story is basically told through that setting, making it actually somewhat relevant to the story. And despite all of that and me actually liking this novel, I'm still not the biggest of fans of this opening. So, maybe not universally bad, but very close to it. Because I can't even think of a single other case where I didn't dislike this opening.

[@c.s2193]

Oh, I despise that! As soon as I realize the prologue/first chapter is actually the ending or the midpoint of the story I skip it. No thank you. I’m not interested in getting spoiled, just start with the damn story

[@Lark88]

My Dad hated John Wick because the whole movie was a flashback. To him, the first scene ruined the whole movie.

[@josiahwilkinson4334]

Isn’t this how Frankenstein is written? 😆😅

[@someoneelse1348]

100 Years of solitude uses this trope, and is most likely one of the most iconic opening lines in literature as a whole (I get your point tho, is overused and it's application is misinderstood)

[@TheMightyPika]

A great example of beginning a fantasy novel with a high tension scene that turns into action is The Black Gryphon by Mercedes Lacky & Larry Dixon. What makes this beginning unique is that it's a heist mission. We follow only one character, the lead, and see how he uses his skills to sneak into an enemy encampment, explaining the magic system through show not tell. It's tense but quiet and focused, and the action is running away from guards, which releases that tension. We get a good look at the enemy and see why our lead, who is a formidable warrior, still runs for his life. There's no actual fighting, just "Holy shit this is a bad situation".

[@samreilly6602]

This sounds pretty perfect I agree. The silent tension you mentioned is a favourite of mine, easy to get readers invested and you give them a chance to get to know the characters through internal monologue etc

[@AliasPhex]

I forgot about this book/the series. Thanks for the reminder!

[@jamesleonard8593]

Thank you for posting this at the perfect time, I am just starting to writing the first draft of chapter 1 of my fantasy novel, and this arrived just as I found myself staring for 15 minutes at the single sentence that I had made! Very useful, thanks a lot!

[@PhoenixCrown]

Great video. I attended a group call you did on 1st chapters, and it helped a ton! Took a remnant of when I first started the book--going through a "normal" day for the MC to discover the world for myself--and started at an exciting place that shows him doing what 99% of people wouldn't do. Thanks!

[@MysteryRoseWriter]

Well, what i learned from this video is that one of my books i have started right, and one i have started wrong. These surveys and videos are sooo helpful, cant wait for the 10 best ways to start! ❤

[@Gruzbee]

1) Changing POV characters is dependent on the type of story that one is telling. That being said, POV hopping too many times in a single chapter is distracting. 2) In Media Res is a tried and true technique. Again, it's dependent on the type of story being told, and whether or not the author will make use of this information later on. A good case in point is the Prologue to The Eye of the World, it introduces us to characters we have absolutely NO CLUE about, but it establishes the tone and the type of story that we the reader are going to get. 3) Prologues can be very useful in setting up the shape and tone of the book, and even those that seemingly have little to do with the immediate (if done well) can equip the reader for the journey they will be taking. Michael Crichton used prologues very effectively as a means of giving the reader the tools they would need for understanding the jargon he would throw at them later. 4) Dreams are a bit on the abstract, and I've rarely seen an instance, outside of establishing some kind of 'prophesy' in which the hero is the chosen one, where they aren't a tad annoying. 5) Made up words were practically a staple of Dr Seuss books. Also, having a 'wyt' or 'shy pippo' land on your shoulder and chirp or sing, sounds way more on theme in a fantasy novel, than a bluejay or a mocking bird. 6) Mundane routine is seldom done to its full effect, but when it is, I appreciate it. 7) Confusing setups may be somewhat subjective. I think it depends on the writer, the story and the reader. 8) Most of this seems like it's going back to readers being disgruntled over prologues. In the case of starting with 'non-main characters,' the Jurassic Park novel didn't introduce the main character, Alan Grant, until Chapter 2 (Second Iteration), several dozen pages into the novel. 9) Slow and boring are extremely subjective. There are many, many books that are slow-paced or have a slow burn to them, taking entire chapters to get where they're going. Upton Sinclair, John le Carré, Philip K. Dick, and even the legendary Frank Herbert have slow pacing in their works. 10) Sadly, info dumping is pretty rampant in poorly constructed LitRPG fantasy, where there's an over-emphasis on pouring words and words at the reader so the author can show off their shiny new leveling and skill system, the likes of which have never been done before. Only, at some point, it becomes all about the system and the information, and the story forgets to be told, or ends up being some 'anime-inspired' slapdash.

[@Kaede-Sasaki]

I try to write my stories with a 3rd person limited perspective. Very rarely do i go in peoples heads (its a bit rude). I try to let actions, even if written, speak whats on their mind. For example: "greg shifted his leg and snuck a glance at the door while his boss continued about TPS reports." I dont need to go in gregs head for the readers to know that greg is trying to leave. Show dont tell (in a written book 😂).

[@Kaede-Sasaki]

Error 404

[@Kaede-Sasaki]

Disappearance protection

[@lionheartpublishing5653]

I try to do the same in my books (psyber war and shutdown republic). I occasionally need to go in someone's head, but try to keep it 3rd limited.

[@lionheartpublishing5653]

Are you having KZbin issues too with your comments disappearing?

[@lionheartpublishing5653]

😂

[@UltraLaidback]

I love it when I'm not feeling very confident in my writing and you drop a video that shows me, I am actually doing a good job so far. Thanks Jed! Absolutely great video.

[@Andrea-tc9mw]

I’ve watched many of your videos and only really agreed with about 50% of what was said, but this one I have a very good feeling about. I think a lot of what was said in this video makes sense and is indeed good writing advice

[@antimatters6283]

I suspect one of the mistakes is "I don't know where the story is going." And, not being willing and able to edit or write with proper sentences and grammar. Those are just a guess. Glad to hear Jed talk about "trust" in the author. A needed subject to discuss. Trust is earned. Good video.

[@gallowambience4410]

Thankfully, I caught this video before writing chapter 2 as a first-time writer. I only did 2 'bad' things for my beginning. Thank you!

[@didyoujust7810]

I've just finished reading The Final Empire by Brandon Sanderson, first time reading his work. I love his writing style. It's very clear and to the point, he doesn't waste time and knows when to bring things up. I got a very clear visual of Luthadel and the world immediately, and the characters.

[@iandavis6952]

One of the best channels on KZbin

[@Vexx263]

*This is a cry of help to any and all writers* I've been sitting on a story for a few years now. It's about a broken man being suddenly thrust into a fantasy world. He then goes on a journey to reunite with a friend from his original world, and heals from his past traumas along the way. The issue is that I'm not sure how to express his trauma and friendship without doing a big character introduction for my first chapter. Granted I wont tell the backstory, more show it in a mini story before the main plot. But I think this still would make for a very slow introduction. The information is crucial and I'm reluctant to use flashbacks as they wont work too well with the style I have in mind for the book. I'm stumped at what to do. Any and all advice would be appreciated.

[@Faust.doodle]

(CW: mentions of PTSD and trauma related behaviour, nothing too graphic) Hello, there! It sounded quite interesting, so I thought i might give my two moldy cents :) The interesting thing about trauma is that it's not something that just *happened* in the past, it follows you like a shadow, showing through your actions and thoughts; it connects the present to the past. So I would focus more on the abnormalities that show in the present while giving subtle clues to what might've happened (ex.: someone with trauma related to fire being anxious in hot places and "prefering cold food" so they don't have to start a fire). Flashbacks might be quite hard to avoid, but you can mix them up or replace them with thoughts and dialogue from the protag that kinda indicate what happened in a more subtle way if you don't wanna straight up tell the reader what happened (ex.: "I already turned the fire off, right...? Well, won't hurt to double check.", and upon seeing it was in fact off, they just stood there an extra minute, as to convince themself it's actually off.), but you could also save the straight up telling what happened for a more heavy and emotional scene, as payoff for all the little clues you gave so far! You could even go for PTSD flashbacks if it gets to that, since they make you go back to what happened in a physical/emotional sense as well, while knowing you're not actually back there. As for the friendship, I would need a bit more context and to know when they meet again to give a decent suggestion, but if they meet midway through the journey, you could show the inconsistencies in the protag's behaviour and how it impacts the dinamic of the friendship. It could be a silent distance formed, avoidance, hard time trusting, etc. Sorry for the long text, and hope it helps even if a bit! :)

[@feathercompressor]

Would it be possible to start with your guy in a scenario where he's directly hindered by his trauma and wishing he had his friend's help? Then we don't need backstory yet and can feel the weight of his limits/loss of the relationship.

[@Vexx263]

​​​​@@Faust.doodle Thanks for the advice! This has given me a good idea of how to show his PTSD in a more natural way! As for the friendship... well it was kind of deceptive of me to call it a friendship. I just wanted to keep it short so I avoided giving details. Sorry in advance for the long block of text. Here is a summary of my chapter 1 and maybe 2 if it gets that long (CW: Suicide): Guy has trauma related to talking with people as well as playing music. His mother was sickly and his father was never a part of the picture. His mom taught him to play guitar, and they enjoyed playing music and dancing together. He never went out much because kids would make fun of his living situation, as well as his ill mother. Despite being sick, his mother worked to barely keep food on the table. Then, she overexerted herself and died while singing to one of his songs. He was taken in by an uncaring realitive and refuses to play guitar again because that is how his mother died. Years pass anc hes now grown up and living on his own. Then one day on his way home from work he sees a girl dressed in a pure white dress dancing under a willow tree. She smiles and dances in the same way that his mother did. After weeks of seeing her dancing there, he finally decides to talk to her. But his PTSD about talking to strangers kicks in and he just can't do it. He decides that if he can't approach her, maybe his music can. She's like his mother after all. So he starts to practice on his guitar again, pushing past a bit of that trauma. Then, one day he finds her under the tree once again, but this time is different. She is sluggish, and is barely standing. Then she collapes. He rushes to her aid, and only then does he realise that her white dress is actually a hospital gown. He carries her to the nearest hospital but it's too late. She's dead. This breaks him. He has no one left, his parents are gone, he's living alone and has no friends to speak of. So he quits his job, in hope of someone, anyone to come for him. Even if it's just a concerned message from a coworker. But no one does. Then he gets a rope, and hangs himself from the willow tree that the girl used to dance under. But he doesn't die. Instead he is brought to another world. He is reborn into the family of the local lord. Time moves on, and when he turns 6 his family goes to a traveling carnival. There he sees a young lady no older than himself dancing on stage. Her smile and dance are the exact same as the girl from under the willow tree. Even the song is from his world. Unfortunately his family refuses to let him meet her. He cant even sneak out because of his special condition(which I wont mention). So he decides that once he's grown enough, he'll go find her. With your advice I could straight up cut out the beginning parts with his mom and just tell the story of him meeting the girl. But the part she is central to the plot, and I don't know how I'd cut her. Any thoughts?

[@Faust.doodle]

@@Vexx263 I'm glad you found it helpful! I was brainstorming for a bit when I thought of something. I'm not sure if that would fit the progression since I don't know the exact order of events, but what if the story of how he met the girl was told by him in a song? If his past with his mom is slowly revealed through his actions and thoughts, that would give the reader something to wonder about and piece together as the plot progresses. Meanwhile, while trying to overcome his past, he could try and make a song about the girl and how he met her, what life felt like at that point, slowly and bit by bit, in hopes of her remembering him/getting his words to reach her when they meet again? I think it would be quite sweet and tie back to his trauma with music and talking to people by showing his growth in order to reach her! :)

[@theyeetler]

prologues are arguably my favorite way to start a story as a reader. they give a great sense of the world as a whole and they're just a really fun vibe

[@tabletbrothers3477]

So no slow/boring and no fast/action packed. 👍

[@michaelcherokee8906]

Thank you for this video, because of it, Ive realized that the short story Im setting out today to write is part of that probably less than one percent of stories that actually *would* ideally start with a dream sequence. Having said that, Im using the dream as a flash-forward, and then actually returning the character to the world of the dream shortly thereafter, so it truly does matter. Edit: I didnt actually *start* the story with the dream sequence, it's just really close to the beginning.

[@SC831]

Tolkien been real quiet since this came out

[@NuelBility]

😂

[@JGirDesu]

Why is this so funny 😂😂😂

[@MrNoucfeanor]

Lol

[@Jpthecool1800]

Tolkiens dead man. Hate to break it to ya, but i will.

[@MrNoucfeanor]

@@Jpthecool1800 Google the definition of "facetious".

[@mucho_mu]

I started my first chapter with an action scene with a few characters, but its mainly used as a way to establish who my main character is and his "legend" in the world without making it a history prologue dump. Bounty hunters attacking my main character. They are only in that one chapter but they help show my character's skills and the way he thinks.

[@fitzman7]

As I reader and future writer, I agree with most of these except for the action at the beginning and the prologue. As long as they are used properly as Jed mentions, they are fine to use in your novels. It's the amateur writers that give these two ways to write with a bad taste in readers mouths so to speak.

[@kyle30710]

Agreed, I started 7 Blades of Legend, the armor of kamisama with action and mystery and its received nothing but praise and 5 star reviews

[@StarlasAiko]

All these "Don't do it" points can be done if one knows how to do it right. If done right, it's a trope; if done bad, it's cliche.

[@Bicornis]

Avoidance of fantasy terms can go too far too. It always feels a little silly when the beasts the characters ride are called "lizard-horses" or whatever just because the author didn't want to use a "made-up" word. Especially when the setting doesn't even _have_ regular horses.

[@yharleththegrandobserver236]

You can absolutely have a prologue and have it be good. My favourite series ever (The Inheritance Cycle by Christopher Paolini) starts with a prologue that's basically the inciting incident for the events of the series, and it works great!

[@TheREALSimagination]

The sad things about using surveys as "definitive" data, is you'll have at least as many readers disagreeing with every single answer.

[@StarlasAiko]

You need a minimum of 50k people answering truthfully to all questions for a meaningful statistical sample.

[@VinnyTheory]

@@StarlasAiko this is actually a lie. The legal minimum for an official study requires only a 100 person sample size. Due to this, most studies are conducted with only 100-1000 people. Though, the important factor is that all participants must have randomized demographics. Due to not having a randomized audience, a specific “audience”, such as this one, is unfortunately a biased one.

[@VinnyTheory]

@@StarlasAikoeither way, 50k is just a random, unverified number you just brain vomitted

[@StarlasAiko]

@@VinnyTheory 100 is the legal limit. Does not in any way make any study of that size statistically meaningful.

[@MrNoucfeanor]

S'just content and opinions. You do you!

[@porcelainchips6061]

I imagine a dream sequence can be less annoying if it "provides value". Like if it gives you, the reader, some critical insight into a character's motivation; a character could have a dream about their ultimate goal or fear where it is represented by the most extreme symbiology that that character could conjure up in their mind and how over the top it is in the dream could help the ready then gage how that character really feels about something. Maybe, say, a character always acts very unphased by death, but maybe they fear their own death? Maybe their extreme dream of dying serves as a direct contrast, showing that they are lying or being dishonest when having conversations with other characters in the story?

[@triplettobi4424]

How do we feel about a prologue from the villains perspective? Setting up the main conflict and hinting at his goals/motivations.

[@lionheartpublishing5653]

My villain lives in his mom's basement and his mom helps the kidnapped pm leave after giving him some cookies for the road. He kidnapped the prime minister of another country whose security sugghed. Nobody looked for him because nobody liked him 😂 Book: psyber war by lionheart

[@lionheartpublishing5653]

😢😂

[@Space.Panda1805]

@@lionheartpublishing5653 LOVE this 😂Humor is something I love in books but I didn't see that many authors that add it. Percy Jackson/The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy/Terry Pratchett are the only one that I remember now.

[@lionheartpublishing5653]

@@Space.Panda1805 @examenesinternacionalesaf3576 Appreciate it. I forgot to n*me-drop that book: Psyber War (am*zon s*arch. = psyber war lionheart). Thank you

[@lionheartpublishing5653]

This keeps disappearing. Sorry

[@02052645]

This is all great advice but there are exceptions to everything. Remember, the Hobbit began with a great deal of exposition about Bilbo avoiding his obnoxious relatives.

[@haderak149]

*snip* *snip* *shuffle* *glue* *snip* *duct tape* Done! Now my third chapter is my first, and my first is my third, and my second can stay where it is for now. I wonder if I'll be changing this again after Jed's next video...? (Seriously Jed - your videos have been a revelation for my writing. Thanks!)

[@alexkunce2002]

I appreciate how excited you seem when talking about your own books.

[@mddojo]

This thing about not starting with your protagonist and not making it obvious can be useful if your story has alternate history elements or is a retailing of another popular story. If there is an expectation that most readers would be aware of how the events your altering actually went, then starting this way is more useful. Let's say you start a story from the perspective of Napoleon on the eve of his seizure of power, but then he dies in chapter two. Or, you can have a story where you start the story from the perspective of Peter Pan, but he turns out to be the villain and your protagonist is actually Captain Hook. In both cases, you start with people who are well known and the audience would automatically believe are the protagonist. When that is not the case, then you have a powerful hook that keeps people interested. Not only that, the readers of each example above would most likely feel an emotional connection to the characters you start with. Of course, this only works because both examples the characters are still important. Napoleon dying early would create a cascade of events that would allow for this story to even exist in the first place. If Peter Pan turned out to be the villain, he would still be an important character to the story as a whole. In my own work, I am writing a Naruto fanfiction. The story opens up with the Third Hokage Hiruzen's perspective during the Nine Tails attack. You really get a sense that he is the protagonist and you hook the expected reader into story since the Nine Tails attack is a very important event and readers know that Hiruzen's impact on the event was relatively inconsequential in the actual series. By the end of the fifth chapter, he is dead and the only hint is him declaring his intention to use "That" jutsu. I believe this works in this case for the few reasons. Firstly, he is a well known characters that most of my readers will have an opinion of already. Second, his role is still incredibly crucial to the story as a whole. He is responsible for the survival of a major character in this story, the Fourth Hokage and causes a different character to have the Nine Tails sealed inside of them instead of the protagonist of the original story. This impact makes it possible for my story to even exist in the first place. Lastly, I am writing this as a series of novellas and novelettes instead of a series of novels. Therefore, Hiruzen is actually dying at the end of this first story. It should be noted that even though this first story is short, roughly 15,000 words, it is a complete story. (I used the 'save the cat' beat sheet, which is a 15 step version of the three act structure, to ensure this)

[@mariapazgonzalezlesme]

This is an advice that I found at random and find it useful. If you are planning to use unique words, term or language, write a lexicon / dictionary, so the readers can learn and understand them, so they don't feel confused of what is the story is showing. This also can be useful tool if your story have many characters, this can help the writer in classifying which characters are main, background, antagonists and you can even add their job, their faction and general info. Thanks for this tips, man!

[@Steve_Stowers]

The problem with this is, it's hard to keep flipping back and forth to a lexicon or glossary or list of characters in an ebook-or, worse, an audiobook.

[@emberdragon4248]

I'd say whenever you introduce a new term, make sure the reader gets to understand what that term represents and why it matters, before moving on to the next concept. When you get a box of chocolates of different flavors, you want to eat them one at a time to experience and understand their flavor. But if you have them all shoved into your mouth at once, each one would lose flavor and meaning, and you're left with a mess. A lexicon like that would be a good thing to have available on the side, especially for people who like knowing all the terms from the start so they can feel they are in on the conversation. But it should not be a replacement to proper introduction, since most people prefer the experience of the story and don't want to sift through a list when they haven't yet been given a story to make them care about it.

[@StarlasAiko]

Having a dictionary is good, but it should never be used as an excuse for bad practice. It should be a bonus, not a necessity. It is best if new words become immediately obvious through context; second best is to explain their meaning immediately and diagenicly in main text.

[@narindraramanankasaina2545]

Re #8, Robert Jordan did a good prologue that began long ago in the 1st book of Wheel of Time.

[@notthetrueNic]

I find it funny that Ocarina of Time (I know it's a game, shush) starts with a dream and the main character waking up. (in fact, several of the Legend of Zelda games start with Link waking up. It works in a video game, not so much in writing.)

[@evancombs5159]

That is a common trope in video games, or at least used to be. I think it was intended to try to get the player in the shoes of the main character.

[@Sisanf]

Another banger!! Thanks again for the free knowledge Jed

[@manuelgarcia-ve5vm]

a story without a message is like a message without words

[@xoso599]

Cryptic symbols in my dreams is how I get all my news.

[@johnynoway9127]

....you dont NEED messages. People will get a random message out of anything.

[@noyangholizadeh3393]

​@@johnynoway9127 my thoughts exactly

[@oz_jones]

@@johnynoway9127 Telling a story without a message is pointless.

[@MlecznyHuxel9999]

@@oz_jones Not if it's a story you want to tell

[@Ruan_Cloud]

Damn you so underrated like this is the most understandable videos I've ever seen

[@aysseralwan]

Also I think it's valid to show someone dying at the beginning of the book if it has big consequences that we learn while reading the story. Idk any book example but in concept I can see it make sense if it's some great king/general whatever who died on the field or in an assassination and then the 1st chapter might show how the kingdom has fallen off cuz of it and some more ripple effects caused by it

[@outlawsyl]

The point is to make it clear what the impact from the death was. Most of the time if it's a complete stranger there's no impact from the death. If it's a real historical figure though, or a political figure from a realistic/similar system, like you say, it's same as seeing a familiar character's death, the impact is clear

[@Ritallia]

The quality of your videos improved a lot! Great job!

[@captainsirk1173]

This makes me feel pretty good about my first chapter. The first line says “Dallin was six years old when the monster first appeared,” which I think is a pretty good hook. The rest of the chapter/prologue is largely spent establishing how Dallin responds to feelings of helplessness and how he adapts to fear with a freaking werewolf guarding the door to his bedroom every night. All of it is intertwined with the overall plot and theme of the book, and I like to think all of it is engaging. I really hope it turns out to be as good as I think it is when the book actually comes out. My parents say they liked it, my aunt said it was good, and my friend says I wrote her second favorite werewolf, but I just do not have enough beta readers to give me any real confidence that I don’t have a drastically overinflated conception of my own ability😅

[@Faust.doodle]

It sounds pretty fun and interesting, would love to give you a fair review! :)

[@olived9560]

ooo that sounds awesome so far!

[@prodbymorii2058]

If you'd like, I'd be more than happy to read it over 😁

[@yaluebillustration2388]

Hi Jed, Great GREAT video again ! I binge watched all of your videos over the last months and it has changed my way to approach my writting a lot. I absolutely love your content, thank you for the effort and quality you put into your work ! If there is ever a time you are in lack of a video idea, there is one topic i couldn't find anything on even within french or german content creators. I was looking for how to write about an intelligent charcter (Sherlok Holmes, Kira from deathnote and so on). It is easy to show how strong, skilled, kind somone is. But how do you show how smart a charcter is when he is meant to be smarter than you are yourself. Greetings from France, I am so happy your channel showed up in my recommended videos !

[@sabikikasuko6636]

23:45 one example of the hype man introduction is in Hamilton. In the song Right Hand Man, the protagonist is undeniably Washington, however we start with, first of all, a chorus showing how there are thirty two thousands troops in New York harbor, showing the sheer scale of the conflict and the power of the British army. Then we go onto Hamilton “As a kid in the Caribbean, I wished for a war. I knew that I was poor, I know it was the only way to rise up.” Then he starts to talk about "one man" “But there's only one man who can give us a command so we can rise up! Understand, it's the only way to rise up! Rise up! (Here he comes)" Then Burr begins to literally hype up the man XD “Ladies and gentlemen! (Here comes the general!) The moment you've been waiting for! (Here comes the general!) The pride of Mount Vernon! (Here comes the general!) GEOOOOORGE WASHINGTON!" And only then we hear Washington with what can be described as one of the coldest openings in the entire album. Dude just hits the ground running, gets this hyped up introduction, this almost a minute long build up and continues it full force. "We're outgunned! Outmenned! Outnumbered, outplanned! We gotta make an all out stand! Ayo I'm gonna need a right hand man." Washington's style is very hip hoppy, he doesn't have a lot of breaks during his verses and it's very energetic and metric, so I think the more melodic and calm opening with Burr's ballooning hype served as the perfect bridge into Washington's powerful, straight-to-the-point, commanding style of singing. Dude is certain of where he is, what's he gotta do and what he needs to do it, and we gotta understand it.

[@GraniteShaker]

Can I be real for a second?

[@isaac_aren]

I scrapped my idea of for prologue (as well as most of my first chapters but that's another thing) and this video gave me the idea to try introduce the same things but through a dream sequence. My story already opens with a main character waking up in the strange facility they live in, so I had the idea that they could have been dreaming of their peaceful life before, which they don't quite remember. Very brief, very clear that it's a dream, with an abrupt cut to waking up in this foreign, clinical environment.

[@lionheartpublishing5653]

What are your thoughts on starting the book where character is starting his day (how can you tell what is abnormal if you don't know what is normal for him/her?), but is engaged in conflict or character driven dialog with family and friends to better gauge how this character is (eg liar, trustworthy, caring, stand-offish)? Or possibly where the character is being surveyed/surveilled?

[@josephrowlee]

Great video! One opening I dislike is similar to the 4th worst from the video (the Confusing Setups one). I don't like it much when the book opens with a scene that happens LATE in the book as a way of hooking you and continuing to read to see how you get to that situation. Yes it's instant action and a great hook, but I just don't really like it.

[@BooksForever]

There are no inherently bad prologues, only bad authors.

[@DaveRoberts308]

True. But good authors are suspicious of prologues.

[@katgreer6113]

@@DaveRoberts308 er no. people have just gotten sick of them and the repetitive way they are told. prologues aren't a negative thing at all. they shouldn't even be looked at sideways.

[@BooksForever]

@@DaveRoberts308 I would put it this way… if any given story would benefit from a prologue, a good author could and would write a good prologue.

[@RossC-Michaelis]

Shots fired

[@austinoverthere8898]

I love your videos. Very helpful for someone like me who enjoys to write and read fantasy/science fiction. Also loved seeing you on the 2toRamble podcast. Hope you appear on there again!

[@caserdziewiecdziewiec2272]

Yes, info dump is something I really hate... Because I'm writing a book and when I'm introducing, almost every new place or character I write an info dump 😅 Then I have to rewrite the whole scene and split the important informations through it. And about 1/3 of them goes to the trash 😂

[@lionheartpublishing5653]

My first book I was guilty of this, but in my defence, I was going for the star wars style infodump that fades off the screen 😂

[@lionheartpublishing5653]

Short and sweet.. Enough to explain they were in a whole other universe where even gravity is altered.

[@QuatarTarandir]

One thing that's helped me when writing a ton of info about things, like some side character or such, is to put it in another document. So I can put all this info there and not loose the cool ideas, but I don't have to put it all in the chapter and overload the reader, and can slowly introduce elements from these documents

[@caserdziewiecdziewiec2272]

@@QuatarTarandir true, I found the bibisco application very useful for organising stuff. But still, the first draft is just a direct mind-dump to document, I can't stop to put part of info into another place, because then I loose my thread. 😅

[@QuatarTarandir]

@@caserdziewiecdziewiec2272 I mean, that's fair. And in the end, it is the first draft, so you can keep it with all that detail and then rewrite it in a new document but trimmed down. And in the end, unless its pages, I feel like a few paragraphs of detail isn't too bad. It depends on the reader. Like many are fans of Tolkien's works, including myself, and he info dumbs a TON. If that's the type you're going for, than it's fine if not everyone will like it. At least that's my opinion on it

[@jorgborb]

I'm coming to the defense of Prologues! I love Prologues, especially those that hint at future things that you have to discover as you read along. Look at Way of Kings, by Sanderson, that book's prologue introduces characters and concepts, half of them only explained from Book 2 forward. But it's so great to return to that prologue and understand now all the references and the foreshadowing.

[@Kaede-Sasaki]

I like starting with interpersonal conflict, even if minor (eg person a wants to go home early, person b tells person a they need to be a better employee, etc). My stories are more sci fi though.

[@Kaede-Sasaki]

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[@lionheartpublishing5653]

I have my characters grumble about work too. Even in the future, life is rough 😂

[@lionheartpublishing5653]

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[@t.b.cont.]

Regardless of however you choose to start your novel, it’s important that you start it with what’s to come, and exactly what you want to focus on. Whether that’s an explanation of how things work in the setting, the introduction of the conflict or the characters, etc. the first chapter of your story should be a meaningful start and setup for what you plan your story to be about. That’s the crux for a lot of things mentioned in this video. It’s not about the substance, it’s the essence. A lot of these beginnings mentioned as “how not to start a story” are not from the substance of what they actually are in terms of what is written, but the essence of how inconsequential they are to the story past that. That’s the complaint.

[@deckardcanine]

For #8, I think the worst offender is "The Way of Kings." It basically has THREE prologues, the first of which is hard to get much out of even after you read the rest of the huge volume.

[@andreescalona8902]

First time reading it, I couldn't get past Kaladin's slave journey for the life of me

[@ZetoTarken]

It's also an offender of #9 where you get Cenn and an action scene... and then TADA Kaladin is a slave. Just start us with Kaladin start us with Kaladin's latest escape attempt or something if we need the action. And we know something about one of Kal's escapes could be usable because we're told he tried to escape with others and that helped him get caught again. So we have oh he's selfless trying to help everyone escape instead of fending for himself, and you can show he's good with a weapon. And the jump from he's trying to escape to he's in the caravan is a bit more natural and his trip is how he meets Syl but you keep it short and sweet and focus on Kal meeting Syl and then fast forward to him being a bridgeman. Can really cut a lot of part 1 out. Also doesn't help that your break from Kaladin being a slave is TWoK Shallan who comes across as someone who feels she SHOULD be witty, not someone who is actually witty. She has all those forced has to have the last word with some quip moments. At least in WoR she's better about that.

[@James_Wisniewski]

Especially since the prelude in the distant past doesn't really return to relevance until books 3 and 4.

[@joze838]

Jop, 100% true. If this book would not have been recommended to me, I would not have made it past the prologes. I did not care about the "angle" or the assassine. I cared about the soldier, but this made it only harder to care about the broken Kaladin afterwards. Until he got his shit together every Kaladin chapter was a drag.

[@MorgottofLeyendell]

I agree, Way of Kings as a total is good, but the beginning is pretty weak and kind of hard to get invested in.

[@TheMoonsHalo]

I love how my story starts with both #7 and #5. Sometimes I wonder if a nightmare into the start of the day was the right choice, but they really do give incite to who MC is.

[@grishapronin2978]

In my own sci-fi dystopian novel I use the prologue to create a contrast. My prologue is basically a last pages of MC diary, and it’s filled with sense of hopelessness and despair. The first lines are: “4.09.2067 Entry number… Who cares. Probably, it will be the last one” which I find interesting for a reader. The prologue then describes MC and other characters stuck in an underground bunker after a nuclear attack, and having no way out. It ends with characters getting in chronopod to spent thousands of years frozen with no hope of ever seeing a sunlight again. All of this contrasts with the first part of a novel, which is describing seemingly “bright and happy” future. Also, my prologue is the only part of a novel written from first person instead of the third one, and I believe that will help reader to understand MC and their inner world better. P.S. Sorry if my English isn’t good enough, I’m not a native speaker and my draft is written on Russian (my first language), sorry if my translation wasn’t clear

[@otaku-chan4888]

Your english is great! Also I love a sci fi writer using a dystopia to contrast against a (seemingly) utopia, that's awesome

[@grishapronin2978]

@@otaku-chan4888 I know. With this book I took major inspiration from “Brave new world” - my favourite dystopia. What I notice is that many authors write dystopias as just “grim dark cyberpunk totalitarian society”, and in my opinion it’s kinda lame. That’s why I love novels like “Brave new world” and “Мы”, which portray dystopian society much more… complex? And I like this! Worlds like that are much more thought provoking than an average dystopia. It’s one of my favourite dilemmas: “Would you exchange your freedom for happiness?” And that is one of the main themes of my novel. Maybe, some day I will publish it, if my motivation will allow me to finish it (I think that I might have ADHD, because for me it’s so hard to just do stuff, and I hate it. But getting assessed in my country is nearly impossible, so I guess there is nothing we can do). But overall, thanks for feedback! :)

[@grishapronin2978]

@@otaku-chan4888 I know. With this book I took major inspiration from “Brave new world” - my favourite dystopia. What I notice is that many authors write dystopias as just “grim dark cyberpunk totalitarian society”, and in my opinion it’s kinda lame. That’s why I love novels like “Brave new world” and “Мы”, which portray dystopian society much more… complex? And I like this! Worlds like that are much more thought provoking than an average dystopia. It’s one of my favourite dilemmas: “Would you exchange your freedom for happiness?” And that is one of the main themes of my novel. Maybe, some day I will publish it, if my motivation will allow me to finish it (I think that I might have ADHD, because for me it’s so hard to just do stuff, and I hate it. But getting assessed in my country is nearly impossible, so I guess there is nothing we can do). But overall, thanks for feedback! :)

[@lionheartpublishing5653]

In my first book (psyber war), the prologue is done to spoof star wars. In my second book (shutdown republic), it's more like a cold open.

[@adolphaselrah9506]

Russian? Sweet. I would like someone from Russia helping me with my book. I don’t know why but it feels like it would be inspired by Russia. Like it’s fantasy so not the real world but it would still have Russian influence in it. I’m worried that I’ll write it stereotypically or not authentic enough.

[@danielvandommele1204]

As for #5, I used to do this in the past before a proof-reader warned me about it. One of the greatest tips ever to start with something strange, dangerous or exciting. It alone makes the opening so much better

[@Ervtard]

"Dont write prologues, especially those that takes place years or decades before the story" *me who's favorite book series of all time is Wheel of Time...

[@TheRoleplayer40k]

The main character is technically in that prologue tho and so is the main antagonist ;)

[@3dchick]

Love that, too, but I think it works because it's a seriously engaging scene, almost a short story, all on its own.

[@benjaminb4407]

Sanderson loves to start with action

[@Myshjak]

I wanna write a fantasy book about guy who takes it's path from son of a small duke (small by influance and landowning) and later bacomes an emperor by uniting different tribes, military ordens, duchys, free-cities, kingodms etc. in face of gatherinng reborn big evil (I won't go into details). But the catch here is that many historical chronicals I lost due time and wars, and different empires purposely rewrote and falsificated history to prevent the raise of local powers. And so heppend that humans' empire was forgotten and the main character is the legitimate succesor of the last human emperor (who already had ~2000 years old dinasty) and now with the help of magic and leftovers of those old recordinfgs he with companions and allies try to legitimise his succesion of humans' throne and unite humans and other peoples of future empire. So why do I wrote all of this. I want to make a prologue where heppens the coronation of that legendary emperor after he won a war against the same enemy whuch main character will fight in this book and make a reference of it in the epilogue with coronation in a pretty similar way as his ancestor. Is it a good idea or not?

[@joshavenia253]

A novel that I want to work on starts with a dream, and I wanted to know if it was a good idea or not despite what's said in the video. The thing is, my dream sequence lasts no more than 3-4 paragraphs and it sets up a place that will be seen a lot more in my novel. It's essentially a void with a mysterious voice that watches my MC's actions throughout the book. The first few paragraphs introduces this setting with a mysterious undertone, and after my MC wakes up, the first chapter proceeds as normal. The only difference is, my MC is described as feeling "Awake" for the first time in his life after the "dream." I was just wondering if this dream sequence still work in the first chapter?

[@Kaede-Sasaki]

The best dream sequence is one that has immediate real world circumstances (eg 💩 the bed, and the embarrassment) 😂

[@Kaede-Sasaki]

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[@Kaede-Sasaki]

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[@theblindartist8345]

My first completed novel starts with a dream sequence that is more the main character reliving traumatic memories in a disjointed manner, because being a PSTD riddled wreck of a human being is a core facet of their character and it is constantly called back to throughout the story. Learning to heal is one the main themes and I felt this traumatic dream was probably one of the correct ways to show where the character starts on this journey, what brought them there, and why they feel certain ways about things. One day I'll consider it polished enough to try and publish.

[@zag3580]

I have a similar concept. My character has anxiety and relives a traumatic event in dreams (sometimes) and the end goal apart from the physical journey is the mental journey. I entirely agree that a traumatic dream is a solid introduction especially when it delves into their mental state. You'll get your work polished up and I bet it'll be great 👍

[@noemysorto1466]

I have my character waking up from a dream as well. The difference is she is reliving a day from 2 days prior to the current events. She is passed out and reliving a more peaceful time that then transitions to ominous and tense slowly revealing some of the current events and how she is the cause and then ending with her waking up immediately in the midst of a chaotic event.

[@Kaede-Sasaki]

A dream sequence that mattered: Ella ran to all the toilet stalls. They were all taken. She slid across the slippery marble floor of the open air arena laced with toilet stalls between cafe tables with umbrellas. Too late. She woke up...soiled 💩💩💩😂

[@Kaede-Sasaki]

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[@Kaede-Sasaki]

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[@otterball7051]

I imagine a good dream prologue would do something like framing how a character views things, before we've seen how they react in events. As dreams are known to reveal wants and fears, it could be a way to hint at what they might truly think of something, especially if their real, deliberate actions contradict those hints, suggesting the character isnt confronting that side of themselves that secretly wants or believes something else. Could be because they don’t know of it yet, or are choosing to suppress it, or something else.

[@Chudi2000]

This is definitely making me more confident in how I’m beginning my superhero book series, another dope video as usual 👍🏿

[@MrJameslupien]

Ways to write a better fantasy novel. Write how you want to. Dont let a guy with a youtube channel tell you that your creativity is wrong because its different then how he writes.

[@MonAhgasInsomniAroELF]

thankfully i haven't ever really done most of these. buuuut my current novel does _sort of_ commit two of these "worst ways" sins. however i do strongly feel they are exceptions and not only work well for my story, but are vital to it. i do start with a prologue, and it's a longer one... about as long as chapter one (though tbf it will almost definitely get edited down later on since this is draft one i'm writing). but it wouldn't work as the actual first chapter for a couple reasons, one of which is the next "sin" that is being a prologue in the pov not of the main character, but of the most important person in my mc's world (her brother), who also regards her as his most important person. it's vital to get his pov because, yes, he dies in the time between the prologue and chapter one, but a) he's not actually dead, he'll be back before the end of the book, and b) he gives an important outside perspective of the mc that wouldn't otherwise be possible since for the rest of the story we're existing within her world narrative (which is somewhat unreliable for reasons you discover as the story unfolds). and it's through that familial bond and love he has for her that we are introduced to the mc, and i do think it endears her to you that much more as well as gives context to her personality, and why she is the way she is. but we need to see his pov before he's "gone" not only in order to identify the specific areas in which the mc's pov is not 100% accurate/realistic, but also to understand his motivations/choices down the road that we would otherwise not have much context for. basically there's a lot of important context, world and character building in my prologue, and it works so well _because_ it's a prologue, not chapter one. reading me describe it like this probably doesn't make it sound very good, let alone convincing as exceptions to the "worst ways" list, but trust me, it really works and i strongly believe it's necessary. i've had several friends (who are voracious readers) and family members read the prologue and first few chapters to see if it felt out of place or otherwise disrupted the flow of the story, but they all loved it. now tbf, they're obviously people who care about me, so even though i always tell them to be blunt and honest with their criticism, i know they aren't. but i also really don't think they would say it works if it doesn't. my sibling especially can be pretty brutal lmao, so i trust them.

[@coreycarries]

I have to disagree with a few parts solely based on stormlight archive and the way they handle prologues. Or Brandon Sanderson prologues in general. I feel he has mastered the art of a catchy prologue

[@youssifao_1277]

Before watching the video, I know that the first place is for waking up early in the morning. Edit: oh well, it’s the fifth

[@kiwilemontea4622]

I very recently decided to add in a prologue. It's only two pages long, but it does three very important things: it foreshadows that the stakes are much higher than my main characters will realize for a long time to come, it contextualizes the events that wrap up act 1 (which would otherwise feel like they came out of nowhere), and it introduces the most important side character (who would otherwise not be introduced until very late in the book, despite people constantly talking about him). It's not an exposition dump; in fact, I omitted so many details that the time and setting of the prologue is a bit misleading. All that really happens is the introduction of three side characters and one very ominous situation. When I showed this prologue to a couple people who had already read the work in progress without the prologue, it was like a lightbulb clicked on in their heads. I think adding a prologue was the right choice for my story.

[@ClassicMusicianChannel]

If you read a novel written a hundred years ago, it would flop in today's markets. The "Top Ten Worst Ways To Start A Novel," be it a fantasy or whatever, reflects the attitudes of today's young people with little to no patience. "Just give me the good stuff and don't waste my time with XYZ." If every book out there started out the same, you'd have a collection of clones

[@Aewon84]

Well, my series would probably have been banned a hundred years ago because two of my four mains are gay.

[@oz_jones]

@@Aewon84 Being happy isn't a bannable offence, you silly bugger.

[@HungryEyes-sl3mu]

I disagree with the survey on showing the mundane, everyday routine specifically in the case of portal world fantasy adventures. It's important to establish what is their norm so we can see how much everything changes. I do acknowledge that we shouldn't spend an entire week of mundanity before the fun begins, but a single day where we see what their life is like/ we the reader empathize with a life quite similar to our own, and we learn how the MC feels about themself and their mundane life is important.

[@michaelbrauner758]

I love prologues and a lot of books I really love have them in it with more than one purpose. And some of them are more than 80 pages long. Because sometimes you have to show what happened back than to get the readers involved.

[@JeffPenaify]

I feel all of these can be done really well and have been done in many bestsellers but theyre good things to be aware of

[@FioreFire]

If a section of prologue-y exposition is absolutely necessary, I like to put it in chapter 2 rather than the very start. If chapter 1 organically establishes enough of the characters, setting, and plot hooks to get readers invested first, they're probably more likely to actually care about what's in the exposition afterwards, I think

[@Generalhalfjaw770]

Idk about the starting with action, Brandon Sanderson used action in the beginning of The Way of Kings really well i think. It introduced you to the mechanics of his magic and it just gets wayyyy deeper as you read through the books. But as a starter, i thought it was pretty good

[@polyliker8065]

It is really all about whether or not things are relevant for the world and what you're trying to do. That's why I like Sanderson's lectures on yt because he gives tools, tells you what they do and gives some guidelines on how to use them best. So you don't get 'dont do prologues' or 'dont start with action' but more of a 'action sequences do X really well and aren't suitable if you want to do Y'

[@nathankeene9236]

This is humoring considering I've been trying to rework my opening. The story is on a culture based on reincarnation. Currently: prologue reveals a bit about the main character and her untimely death. Chapter one has her waking up one day in her next life on a somewhat ordinary day in her culture for someone viewed as an outsider.

[@purpleicewitch6349]

"looming threat that hangs over the story" is what I'm trying to do with mine by using a prologue. Might not end up using it, still very early draft, and maybe there's a better way to do that than a prologue, but I do like this idea a lot. At least for this particular WIP.

[@HowieDewitt535]

3:47 Literally me watching Godzilla "Man f the humans me wanna see giant lizard blast some skyscrapers"

[@godlessyuri]

18:28 It can pay off to give your readers a sense of common context and familiarity, but if you're taking a character from the real world, or who is living an ordinary life in a world that looks very much like the real one, and then plunging them into the fantastical, the fact they already come from a realistic context is already doing enough work for you (specificaly when talking about just the opening pages of a fantasy novel). There isn't much point in laying out their everyday routine; we can find other ways to connect with them or know the details about their life and interests later. It's enough to establish they've been transported/reincarnated/whatever from our own world; above all else, the opening _must_ be interesting. Obviously, a morning routine _can_ be an interesting opening, but what counts as interesting and how depends on that routine, the genre, the character, et cetera. If you can't say what's interesting about your opening, you should probably rethink your opening.

[@vexalantron1663]

very good video. I have only one thing to say. it seems that there will always be a reader to hate something. my take on openings is: Every way to open a story is the worst besides the one that works. to all the ones that you talked about i knew at least one fantasy novel that did it and did it well. it is the execution that matters mostly