5 Things You Will Love About Starship Troopers

[@georgeorwell4534]

A Hugo award winner. Standard reading for cadets. It was read by all the cast members of "Aliens".

[@kbanghart]

No kidding? That's interesting bit of trivia, thank you.

[@thebookwasbetter3650]

Actually it looks like the Marines replaced it recently with White Donkey. Ill have to do a book review on that!

[@robw9435]

Three great tragedies of my life: 1) My older brother told me what Taylor and Nova saw on the beach before I saw Planet of the Apes. 2) Someone told me who Norman Bates' mother was before I saw Psycho. 3) I saw this movie before I read the book.

[@thomaswrites]

One of my favorite sci-fi books of all time. Good job on this analysis of the book!

[@thebookwasbetter3650]

Thanks! Appreciate the good vibes!

[@haroldb1856]

Thank you for this video. Starship Troopers is a tremendously thought provoking book about important questions and concepts.

[@karlnemo8658]

Again, people who don't read the book (or have poor reading comprehension) keep saying the Terran Federation's 'civil service' is all military. Nope. Most were just civilians with skills the TF needed. And Heinlein makes it clear that volunteers are sorted out by their skill sets, but may be sent to dangerous situations ("...testing survival equipment on Titan"). Only about 5% were military. Johnny Rico was an average person, and an average person without skills could wind up in the military. Verhoeven deliberately misrepresented the book out of his own political prejudices, and admitted as much.

[@valiantthorr7577]

Was here to say federal service wasn't just military.

[@jimmay1988]

First found this book on the USS Dwight D Eisenhower aircraft carrier library collecting dust in the Navy-recommended shelf. It also changed my life and military perspective from being a whiny dirtbag kid.

[@therocinante3443]

It's insane how the movie pretty much has zero similarity to the book. They don't even have power armor.. A huge important part of the story.

[@Eleolius]

4 is incorrect. It is public service, just military service is the most common.

[@kbanghart]

No if I remember, pretty sure it is military service that is required to be able to vote. It says there are all kinds of jobs in the military, but has to be in the military.

[@tomspencer1364]

@@kbanghart I thought it was called "Federal Service." Only a minority went through military training, the others were under orders to provide services, usually uncomfortable, for the state. You had the right to prove yourself and be a full citizen even if you would never make a soldier. Heinlein doesn't make it clear, though, how things are organized beyond the military part.

[@kbanghart]

@@tomspencer1364 yes you could be right, it's been quite a while since I read it. I am pretty sure there's mention that everyone COULD see combat, if there was need, but you could choose or they would just put you in other non-combat situations if you turn out to be a total dense. Sort of like a hybrid draft I suppose.

[@tomspencer1364]

@@kbanghart As I recall, Rico went through a battery of tests, physical and psychological, to see what he was qualified to do. He had provided a list of preferred positions at the bottom of which was "Mobile Infantry." Other than the powered armour, the whole book is an exposition for Heinlein's political philosophy. So he didn't provide much on the nuts and bolts of the system. But, I would guess that the idea was to prevent spoiled brats, bullies and bullshitters from voting or holding office.

[@kbanghart]

@@tomspencer1364 yes I agree with all that. His dad was given that role as I recall, the objector who didn't really like the military, but then later in the book of course he came around and was proud of his son. I agree with his philosophy that a society can only improve, and maybe even survive only if enough of its members are altruistic.

[@yankeepapa304]

Somehow, even thoughtful reviews (like this one) overlook the fact that only a fraction of those (in the book) who do their peacetime service...do so in the military. *Military* veterans do not make up the majority... Public service done in other ways by non-military types on research stations and in other roles. Difficult, sometimes dangerous...but not signed up in the military wing to advance into enemy fire. As to "fascism" (not alleged in this review) non-military veterans get the vote the same as military ones...whereas... the highest ranking military officers are not permitted to vote until after they retire.) . Heinlein did not state that veterans would be "altruistic..." Indeed, he indicated that veterans in some numbers could be found in prisons... He did not say that they were brighter... in fact... the History and Moral Philosophy instructor indicates that many non-vets are smarter. He simply posited that *on average* the end result of that voting system was better than many other systems that had been tried. . Thank you for a balanced and thoughtful review. I was permanently draft exempt...but in the late 1960s I enlisted in the Marine Corps anyway... My MOS 0311 (rifleman)... I am, and have always been opposed to conscription... especially to use conscripts to "...fight the wars of the far frontier"... as we did in Korea and Vietnam. The Vietnam era draft was (relatively) easy to avoid... unless you were poor and without "connections." The draft was so class weighted as to (at times) be barely distinguishable from military slavery as practiced by Frederick the Great. Let's not go there again... YP

[@allantidgwell5624]

A couple of notes; The Terran Federation was a Republic styled after that of Rome. There were votes, and so the society was "democratic" (though as the word roots from the Greek Demos meaning "the common people" I doubt the word would fully apply... but this is also the case for Ancient Greece as well as Rome) the difference to today being the limited suffrage only applying to those which demonstrate social virtue before gaining the right to apply social violence "fore when you vote you are enacting force, and force my friends is violence. The supreme authority from which all other authority is derived" The best explaination of Fascism comes from The Doctrine of Fascism by Benito Mussolini. Fascism is the totalitarian state which holds that, as the state outlasts the life of the individual, the state has a duty to place moral dictates upon the citizens for the benefit of the state. Fascism is akin to a theocracy, but it holds that the "god" it worships is the state itself "Everything within the State. Nothing outside the State. Nothing against the State" The term "man" is mankind. We can see that with Carmen Ibanez signing up to be a pilot (though the recruitment officer being congenial to her while being a dick to Juan and Carl is inappropriate considering he's supposed to be trying to scare off the people who are easily scared. But I guess Heinlein recognized that gynocentrism is something humans will always have trouble pushing past since it is genetically hardwired into us. I mean, if we let all the babymaking apes die then there won't be any more babies to keep the species going)

[@TechnologicZb]

Thanks for this video. Just ordered the book and look forward to reading it.

[@kbanghart]

Did you read it? What do you think?

[@TechnologicZb]

@@kbanghart Yes, I indeed did read it! I liked it quite a bit! You were spot on with your analysis. The History and Moral Philosophy class was definitely my favorite and the reunion with the main character's dad was a close second. The whole ending fight where they were trying to get one of the bug brains didnt interest me so much, but I am just not huge into action scenes these days. I would have had no idea there was such depth to this book if it wasn't for this video, so thank you for that!

[@DailyLifeSolution]

Thank you for this video.

[@saltlife8221]

He knows they can lapse in judgement and civic virtue, Heinlein explains that the average performance of citizens is better than that of civilians. Right now I would say he's correct about this as the few states saying no to government overreach are those with massive veteran populations.

[@garybobst9107]

RAH never talked down to his audience, and his 'juvenile' series is essential reading for all civilized people.

[@Bg563]

Great review, I loved the first movie though. But, when I read the book I couldn't put it down.

[@repo1551]

I was watching this video because I have to read a dystopian novel for a class. But lol what was said around 6:30 was what I needed to hear. Thank you

[@kbanghart]

So which novel did you read then?

[@MrFlintlock7]

Thank you! Most folks totally miss the point of the book, by dwelling on obvious Nazi stereotypes from professors who Grokked "Stranger In A Strange Land" but hated this book for pointing out the selfishness of their "educational deferments".

[@johnmichaelcule8423]

There is a fairly clear set of criteria of what is fascism or not in academia. Here's a link to the Wikipedia page on definitions of fascism: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism As you will see there are various definitions and many of them treat fascism as not one single thing but as a syndrome, a web of related symptoms that imply an underlying condition. If you look at Roger Paxton's definition you can see the following symptoms that might be applied either to the world described in STARSHIP TROOPERS or to Heinlein's mindset in composing it: a sense of overwhelming crisis beyond the reach of any traditional solutions; the primacy of the group, toward which one has duties superior to every right, whether individual or universal, and the subordination of the individual to it; the belief that one’s group is a victim, a sentiment that justifies any action, without legal or moral limits, against its enemies, both internal and external; dread of the group’s decline under the corrosive effects of individualistic liberalism, class conflict, and alien influences; the beauty of violence and the efficacy of will, when they are devoted to the group’s success; the right of the chosen people to dominate others without restraint from any kind of human or divine law, right being decided by the sole criterion of the group’s prowess within a Darwinian struggle. The book (and Heinlein) are free from the racial prejudice that is often (though not always) a part of the fascist mindset but his arguments about the necessity for violent domination though applied to the whole human race are very reminiscent of fascism. Now I think those who dismiss the book as plainly 'fascist' and nothing more are being lazy and I'm not making that argument. But I also think that you are being lazy in trying to dismiss the accusation of fascism as meaningless academic pique.

[@Rajathon]

I am so glad I read the book way better than the movie. I enjoyed it as a popcorn film but this was way more satisfying.

[@baylinkdashyt]

Col. DuBois brought up Carthage, not his H&MP student.

[@Autobotmatt428]

I think the book was written as a response to what Heinlein saw as a lack of Patriotism and Responsibility he saw in the youth of the 1950's.

[@Tiger74147]

Don't forget that non-citizens had all the rights and privileges as citizens except the right to vote, which in the book's philosophy should be reserved for those willing to put the CRITICAL needs of society over themselves. How it accomplished that is probably what's most interesting: service is discouraged, easily dodged, and even in non-military roles carries a high likelihood of danger, and some suffering is guaranteed. You can't dodge the price. And presumably it's difficult to corrupt, because any citizen who would be useful to corrupt will have willingly endured terrible things for society's good... meaning they're not likely to be corrupted.

[@richarddean4763]

Heinlein deals with many themes, the best part for me is he has a bakers dozen better novels

[@marcosmata8233]

Starship troopers in a post-apocalyptic world

[@giorgisharabidze7428]

Hi! Are You Georgian?

[@seanogcarey]

Addressing the fascism, I don't think it's good enough just to say "I don't know what that is anymore"🤨

[@DanielBrotherston]

"We might think that the other aspects of their society are democratic." Except you can't vote...can't really have a democracy when you can't vote.

[@kbanghart]

Thank you for this great review, this is pretty much how I felt about the book for a long time. And because I thoroughly enjoyed the book well before the movie came out, naturally the movie was completely disappointing. Fortunately it is quite forgettable.

[@tarjei99]

Dresden happened at the very end of the war. It was bombed on request from the Soviets which said that it was a staging area for the Germans fighting the Soviets.

[@therocinante3443]

One of my favorite books and least favorite movies!

[@homeworldmusic]

I recall reading the book after seeing the movie, and have completely forgotten the book but the movie is fresh in my mind no matter how long between viewings. It really WAS a bad book; interesting, but forgettable. I can recite chapter and verse of Bradbury, and can still recall with emotional impact some award winning short stories and novellas, am awed by Arthur C Clarke, amused and inspired by Asimov, swept away by Herbert and Verne and Burroughs, and Philip K Dick is a modern Nostradamus, so no, it isn't me.

[@allantidgwell5624]

Completely disagree. The book is far better than the film

[@kbanghart]

@@allantidgwell5624 me too, the book is vastly superior to the movie. This person's comment makes no sense to me, but I guess to each their own. And if the director Paul verhoven really did say that about Robert Heinleins writing, that makes sense because Paul has no imagination whatsoever. Total recall, this one and robocop, etc were all just gory shoot em up and nothing interesting. At least RoboCop and total recall had somewhat of a story.

[@deaddropsd1972]

DISAGREE

[@deece1482]

@@kbanghart typical bookworm. Pretentiousness off the charts.

[@kbanghart]

@@deece1482 who, me? I'm pretentious because I read a book?

[@fuenigo]

5 reasons why not to read it - Maybe you are busy working - Maybe You don’t like to read - Maybe You are blind - Maybe You can’t read - Maybe You are about to die and you want to spend time with your family instead of reading

[@AsianTheDomination]

owned

[@fuenigo]

@@AsianTheDomination lmao don’t remember typing this comment thank you for reminding me

[@michaelcornelljr]

So listen to the audio book. Too busy or not enough time, listen to it at 2x speed...

[@georgeorwell4534]

These aren’t reasons not to read “Starship Troopers”. These are reasons not to read.

[@allantidgwell5624]

"Maybe you are blind" You know braille exists, right?

[@snodog00]

I disagree that the movie wasn't as good as the book, I just think it had different messages and themes that it saturizes. It's a liberals take on the world of Starship Troopers while the book was more of a conservatives look. The movie provokes warmongering and fascism and paints them in an evil light, despite complete justification within the events of the movie. The book highlights what discipline, structure, and responsibility could look like when applied to the extreme. The moron director of the film doesn't seem to realize that just because a world within the book is a right wing ideal, the author is neither condemning or condoning it. He's describing it and it's necessity due to the aggressors of the time and the faults of the past. We don't have giant alien bugs going around dropping asteroids on major population centers. Hell, we have yet to reliably male it off the planet, which is most of the determining factor for the political state.

[@snodog00]

@@VrilWaffen Satire: the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues. This is classified as exaggeration of the vices present in the film and book. Satire has nothing to do with the main character or isn't isn't inherently a negative. One could argue any movie based on fact is satirical depending on the person's point of view.