5 Tips for Building a Better Mana Base for cEDH | Understanding cEDH | Casually Competitive

[@CasuallyCompetitiveMTG]

If you have suggestions for features or updates for the calculator feel free to let us know as it will probably be my side projects over the next few weeks. The goal is to keep it more on the simpler side, but we do want to make sure it's as helpful and as user friendly as possible

[@jormungardwe]

how do I take count of land auras, I am finishing an estrid blue moon.

[@CasuallyCompetitiveMTG]

@@jormungardwe Generally I think of the good ones as slightly better Mana dorks depending on when and how they're played. The two I consider to be this good are wild growth and utopia sprawl I'd it can be reliably cast

[@jormungardwe]

@@CasuallyCompetitiveMTG since it interacts with the general I am using 5 auras, 1 wolfwillow and 1 overgrowth (that I considere trading for fertile grounds) and squirrel nest because it is one win con.

[@jormungardwe]

@@CasuallyCompetitiveMTG it is like this for now I took the RIP Helm of because it was too much of nombo with estrid deckstats.net/decks/131197/1624677-estrid-blue-moon

[@ryanhunt9463]

I know it will mess with the calculations, but I'd greatly appreciate an option for land ramp spells (Farseek, Cultivate, etc.)

[@MindLaboratory]

The greatest innovation in this game in the last 20 years is the term 'mana dork'

[@Ulubai]

Bolt the Bird

[@caligo7918]

My favourite Mana-Dork is the Lawnmower Elf

[@drackoex]

And before mana dork you had "Bop, go." Or "Head, go." =)

[@elbraymundo]

Would love to see an episode about mulliganing. I feel that lots of players, casual or otherwise, struggle here.

[@ozmond]

We just draw 10 cards and put three at the bottom of our deck

[@fel_95]

0th tip for a better mana base: 3000$ worth of dual and fetchlands

[@Helix8238]

Or just a few dollars of printer ink...

[@fel_95]

@@Helix8238 I see, you're a man of culture as well #ScrewTheReservedlist

[@noehonegger4624]

@@fel_95 yeh the reservedlist was a mistake

[@Helix8238]

@@fel_95 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[@alledzebu1975]

@@Helix8238 OR have the web page of certain chinese counterfeiters that produce high quality proxies...

[@Isolanporzellator]

The hardest temptation to resist are the colorless functional lands. Cards like Yavimaya Hollow, Volrath's Stronghold, Academy Ruins or Phyrexian Tower offer such amazing value for a land that I often find myself including one or two more than I probably should.

[@saxxioxo7274]

I think that most decks should run at least a few utility lands, but I normally only count them as half a land (or in the case of tabernacle or something in a spell slot) .. it can at least help me to phase how consistent my mana base will be with fewer lands, or whether a basic could realistically replace something in a flex slot

[@Isolanporzellator]

​@@iPhone4Gaddict As a universal statement that's bullshit. They're niche cards (in the same way you wouldn't run Strip Mine, Wasteland, Cavern of Souls, Boseiju Who Shelters All or Mishra's Workshop in every deck), but in the right deck, they're definitely powerful enough for cEDH. The notable requirement being that they don't compromise your manabase significantly, so in cEDH you usually mostly see them in monocolored decks (e.g. Yavimaya Hollow in Yisan, Academy Ruins in Urza and Teferi, Volrath's Stronghold and Phyrexian Tower in Yawgmoth) and a handful of multicolored decks if they have strong synergy with them. Anyone who's ever played with Academy Ruins in an artifact deck knows how impactful it can be if the game gets slowed down by interaction or your combo piece gets countered.

[@juliand.1147]

city of brass dosnt actually make colorless btw.

[@barryswigart1432]

No rocks 44 lands got it

[@diegotejada55]

Make sure they're all basics, you don't want tapped lands

[@Squee_666_9]

'Looks at a seven land hand' Whoo that's fire 🔥

[@moralessanchezoscarelias6412]

You are gift to the community. Thanks for all your work!

[@QMTG]

Wow, I think I'll be using that calculator a lot. I actually built Urza as my first cEDH deck purely for manabase reasons - financially and because I didn't know how many lands/what distribution of colors to put in. Thanks for building it and the tips!

[@NerdySatyr]

For a minute I thought the thumbnail was a Mothers Basement vid then hahaha

[@rodolfolazo7638]

I run like 33 lands in my temur Yasova Dragonclaw deck, and all but one are basic lands. In order to get to my colors, either through lands, dorks or rocks, there are slots dedicated to draw/loot effects. It might be too convoluted, but it works if you are on a budget and/or you are not that enthusiastic about proxying.

[@bohemianprince7944]

Amazing sound quality. Good work bro

[@coreyr.1012]

I really like these videos. That’s super dope you made that calculator for the community. You guys rock!

[@dennisyoung6122]

Yes, never have Strip Mines to deal with those Cabal Coffers or Gaia's Cradles that pretty much always show up in those colors of decks.

[@onnilattu9138]

Cabal Coffers is bad though.

[@DarkMagicGamer]

Onni Lattu It’s not when Urborg is out.

[@onnilattu9138]

In casual EDH yes, however it is usually not included in competitive decks because it requires a lot of lands and either forces you to run a ton of basics or tutor for Urborg.

[@IntrospectiveCollateral]

Tip number one : Have lots of money.

[@leleprechaundavis4499]

Atomic Collision or just have a spare time machine laying around to buy things while they’re cheap

[@Ulubai]

#proxylife

[@elipetrou9308]

A good mana base *without fetches sadly* can be about 100 bucks

[@UltraDonny5000]

That would be cool if your calculator could make a graph showing your expected colored mana by turn. Maybe make the Y axis pips produced and the X axis what turn it would be.

[@pops91]

The one exception to the tap and colorless Mana rule should always be boseiju who shelters all, that land is bonkers and you should always run it unless you are in like a mono green yisan deck

[@r.c.beringuela2426]

As somebody who play cedh with no og duals, tip no.5 is on point.

[@eloidasarmi6815]

Reliquary Tower looks like some kind of utility tool for specific decks. If your deck hasn't any ways to draw many cards - for sure RT will be absolutely useless. But if your deck is filled with blue stuff and make you draw a lot - RT will be powerful tool for accumulate value.

[@ChevyRedneckGFX]

RT or thoughtvessel

[@Isheian]

A good, balanced, fast land base ups the power and consistency of a deck by quite a bit. It’s usually my first bit of advice for people trying to improve their decks, even if not in a Cedh format

[@xChikyx]

That calculator sounds great, Im building a commander ranking tool, I could use something like that in my tool :o

[@warninja288]

Very useful video! Can you guys cover how much interaction you should have vs card draw/tutors?

[@ziyanli137]

Very common misconception I have seen between Casual EDH and cEDH players: many casuals think Exortic Orchard and Forbidden Orchard (especially Forbidden) are bad and way too many think Reliquary and Strip Mine are good. Saw too many casuals auto-include Strip Mine in their deck. I am not saying that is a bad thing but it would be better if they can think more about it. I think this video could be better it you can help some people clarifying those misconceptions, especially for those who are new to the competitive scene.

[@andresabastante9539]

I cut forbidden from my heavy blue naheela deck for obvious reasons.

[@r.c.beringuela2426]

Strip mine is pretty meh unless you're running crucible of worlds or playing a lord windgrace deck.

[@the_names_rob]

Good to hear i follow a lot of these tips already. Also deckststats is incredibly useful and kinda like a other version of your tool

[@LovedandTheLover]

For the MBC it would be nice to add a category for land ramp cards as that effects the amount of lands you might need.

[@mimiklureaegis9906]

Reliquary is good...but it’s just not worth sacrificing a land slot for it, and I 200% agree.

[@andresabastante9539]

It's not good. You almost never go over 7 cards in hand and, when you do, you are already winning. You don't need that kind of lands except you pretend to combo with them.

[@koreyg8552]

Reliquary is good.... in casual

[@DivinePenguin00]

Took a look at your code, looks good!

[@CrazyCatMan13]

I’ve only been goldfishing my cEDH Kenrith deck since quarantine :(

[@brianshanahan5274]

I don't play cEDH, but I'm curious about that calculator that you made. Do you think it's usable in EDH in general??

[@koreyg8552]

Brian Shanahan yes, lands and mana production is the backbone of the deck even for casual

[@matthewlugo2417]

Whats a good website to input your deck to find your mana curve?

[@elipetrou9308]

Would phyrexian tower be considered a colourless land? Is it worth running in korvold for example

[@0220cj]

Keep growing!

[@AUGOM0919]

I just came back to this,i think you can consider ritual spells (dark ritual, jeska's will, etc.)..

[@Rakdos-qn7ey]

This may come off as a stupid question but would you say it's okay to have a cedh mana base if your deck isn't cedh itself? I like to play aggro decks like Rakdos, Lord of Riots, Xenagos, and Feather. Most of the people I play with typically play these value base decks that drown me out in card advantage. Our power level I would say falls in between the 7-8 range out of 10. I was wondering if having a more competitive mana base would help me get out my haymaker quicker and get that early damage in more efficient or do cedh mana bases just not translate well outside that competitive environment.

[@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena]

How much Mana ramp cards would one want in a cEDH of a Sliver Overlord deck? Obviously you would want Overlord out as fast as possible then go into a Sliver Queen for a infinite combo to immediately win with example as Lavabelly Sliver and Basal Sliver and is a infinite burn ETB combo with Queen which both can be searched by Overlord actually the whole combo can and does not even need a Heartstone or Training grounds to work. And yes i know getting out Root Sliver so they can't counter your combo is wanted as it makes all of your Sliver Spells un counterable and it itself can not be countered so if they can not counter Overlord from coming out it is pretty much game over even without reducing his activated ability costs. Also if you have the mana and balls to do it, if you are seeing someone trying for a Thassa's Oricle win just use your Quick Sliver it has Flash and gives all Slivers Flash costs 1 green and 1 of any color and just win through the stack especially if Root Sliver is already out as unless they have stifle there is not much they can do other than trying to kill you through the stack. There is also a infinite combo you can do with Constricting Sliver that requires Basal Sliver and Sliver Queen as it basically generates infinite mana and creature exiles potentially forcing the game to be a draw against the infinite attack Najeela as there is no end to the loop unless one player decides to stop the loop or all of the Najeela's get exiled either way the game is pretty much over at that point unless you can get rid of that 3 card combo. More fun to give that combo Flash with Quick Sliver then suddenly play a Constricting Sliver if you see someone about to win with Najeela and obviously that more so works if Constricting was never revealed as in in your opening hand or you Demonic Tutor for it in your turn and trust me that will surprise everyone as no one expects a Constricting Sliver to shut down combat based decks But again main combo Lavabelly Sliver and Basal Sliver with Sliver Queen which in total is 11 mana 16 if you actually summon Overlord and not have a god hand but anyways the mana ramp such as lay of the land or farseek is more important than anything as you only have a 2% chance of drawing either manaweft or gemhide Sliver and again we want Overlord out as fast as possible so it kinda needs a good bit of mana ramp to bypass not drawing them since it is a 5 color deck. And yes you would want the detour of Root Sliver so 4 more mana to the combo as you do not want them to counter Basal or Lavabelly which they would try, fun fact 29 mana for the full combo including Root Sliver if you do not have a Heartstone out to reduce by 1 or training Grounds to reduce by 2 meaning with training grounds it would cost 23 mana and heartstone would cost 26 mana in total. And no i am not dumb enough to take a gamble to try without Root Sliver but if the gamble did pay off it would be 19 mana at the least, 22 mana at the heartstone and 25 mana without the stone or training grounds so at the most but again it is stupid to try without Root Sliver even if they are tapped out because cards like Force of Will exists that don't need mana to be played I basically have the deck near the level of a auto run deck where even a toddler can use it and win solitaire that's what it is called

[@zackaryjordan5081]

What about myriad landscape

[@RedDeathakaFS]

How many colorless utility lands are fine?

[@redstonepro5412]

i sometimes dont know if it is really worth it to play forbidden orchard in a tymna-deck, it feels really bad really often

[@Bush_Striker_of_Towers]

This is a little unrelated, but I was thinking of building a three color at some point. I was wondering is their a problem with Naya decks. because in my experience i have not seen too many people around my lgs, I mainly see people play the other shards/wedges. Is their some kind of consensus that naya is weak in commander? I don't want to build an Atla Palani deck only to find that it isn't as good as other decks in different color combinations

[@ms.aelanwyr.ilaicos]

It's not that WRG is bad, specifically. Rather, White and Red are considered weaker than Green, Black, and Blue. With that said, a strong commander can subsidize a weaker color identity, so if you have a brew you think is strong, don't be dissuaded by the fact that it has White, Red, or both in the color identity.

[@salehabdulhadi8493]

Naya can be considered weaker by some people due to the strategies that they tend to follow, which is mostly just big creatures and hitting face. There is nothing wrong with that, it’s just can be slow from getting off of the ground and falls apart very easily to board wipes which every deck plays. I have a Ghired deck that I think is pretty good for casual tables and wins in that environment. Other color combinations rely on more than just the combat step and that is what sets them out to be stronger. It’s pretty hard for Naya to be that explosive since you need to build a boardstate of creatures before you drop that Craterhoof... Unless you’re playing Zacama, Primal Storm, that big dino is scary to watch combo off. If you’re interested here is my Ghired, Conclave Exile deck for inspiration. tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ghireds-friends

[@andrewemily-anncole4745]

I play Atla, I've had great success by making the only creatures in the deck huge hits. Here is my list if you wanted to take a look, I haven't lost with this deck yet but I've been lucky that opponents haven't drawn enough removal to keep up. archidekt.com/decks/485542#Atla_Palani,_Nest_Tender

[@ms.aelanwyr.ilaicos]

@@andrewemily-anncole4745 You can also use only Eggs and Pulmonic Sliver, which makes any Egg/Sliver (e.g. Changeling) able to infinitely fuel a sac outlet.

[@aaronsamuel501]

There are some pretty strong Atla Palani builds around and Green and White compliment each other pretty well (one ramps yourself fast whereas the other slows opponents down a lot and both have strong creatures). However, Naya is pretty slow to combo off as a three colour combo in cEDH as it lacks tutors and draw power without blue or black so Atla Palani does run a few stax pieces and prefers a longer game. If you're looking to be competitive in tricolours then I'd pick Sultai or Esper for both efficiency and strong defense.

[@orsettomorbido]

Nice, nice video!

[@AidanWR]

My question is, why fetch lands are run in mono-colored decks, even if the decks have nothing that deals with lands entering the battlefield, or graveyard interactions

[@koreyg8552]

Aidan Weiss-Rice thins out the deck, fetching for basics (mono) is an extra card you’re getting out of your deck so you have higher chances of drawing gas instead of lands mid- late game when you really don’t need it. Every cedh deck should be running fetches to thin out the deck as fast as possible

[@AidanWR]

@@koreyg8552 Oh, that makes sense. Thank you

[@koreyg8552]

Aidan Weiss-Rice no problem, all I play is cedh. Outgrew casual edh.

[@time_wellwasted6123]

tappedout.net/mtg-decks/03-03-21-animar-soul-of-elements/ so should I play 29 or 30 land in my animar deck instead of 33? I'm looking to get into competitive more so I am very curious

[@StrongButAwkward]

Some light reading for people who want to optimize their land and ramp packages: www.channelfireball.com/all-strategy/articles/frank-analysis-finding-the-optimal-mana-curve-via-computer-simulation/ www.channelfireball.com/all-strategy/articles/how-many-lands-do-you-need-to-consistently-hit-your-land-drops/ www.channelfireball.com/all-strategy/articles/how-many-colored-mana-sources-do-you-need-to-consistently-cast-your-spells-a-guilds-of-ravnica-update/

[@pkphantom]

I had a small anxiety attack when he said that he only runs 28-30 lands in his decks 😰

[@elipetrou9308]

I run 32 in casual korvold, lots of ramp but it does fast and I don’t need lands

[@flabberjiggles4825]

Oh come on I’ve been waiting for your video discussing the flash ban

[@britain9735]

Ive always just messed with my mana base, obviously gitrog requires a few extra lands, artifacts, dorks, rituals, etc. Id say 60-70% of my deck is ramp lmao

[@jeremy.oliver]

Reliquary tower: isn’t worth adding Wheel players: Am I a joke to you?

[@alanli6276]

In cedh? If you get a wheel/notion thief combo off you should be winning before you ever hit the discard step unless something has gone very wrong.

[@andresabastante9539]

On thiefs? After you wheel, your opponents should have no cards in hands and you can choose the best 7 out of 28. You already won, you don't need the other 21 cards.

[@koreyg8552]

Reliquary tower is pretty useless in cedh. Every card serves a purpose and there’s no reason honestly to need over 7 cards to win cedh. Color fixing is more important

[@r.c.beringuela2426]

Only nekusar runs reliquary tower. Opus Thief which is a wheel deck never runs reliquary tower.

[@TheNinja4]

website is useless, lol keeps just saying i draw 3 land nothing else. i just need to know how many of EACH color of mana to have in the deck

[@StrongButAwkward]

40 starting life honestly enables people to be too lose with taking plenty of damage from their lands without thinking twice because it's such a ridiculous amount of padding you can take 10 damage from lands and it's still an easy mode version of the game for combo and a hard mode version of the game for aggro at that point because aggro just will never be able to put sufficient pressure on a whole table of 120 life at a pace needed not let combo just slide into its win. Just feels like it allows sloppy overuse of cards with designs that were suppose to be a *real* trade off of a significant amount of a resource of speed and/or flexibility into stuff that will barely ever matter. Really always feels like if people really wanted competitive games of EDH the first thing they'd do is move to 1v1, but the second thing they'd do is set the life total to 30.

[@nanoacido5174]

Best tip: dont play more than two colors. Your manabase can be mostly basic lands :D It also increases card variety :D

[@lilacpilot3437]

That tip works well for casual EDH but in cEDH they are trying to be completely optimal so I imagine they'd rather run more colors not less.

[@andresabastante9539]

There's almost no 2 color decks among the top cEDH meta.

[@koreyg8552]

Andres Abastante tasigur is top tier and is two color.

[@koreyg8552]

That’s great advice for edh not cedh. You still need fetches and color fixing. Running just basics won’t help you when you need pips, especially if your group is very cedh

[@gorzakMtG]

@@koreyg8552 tasigur is a sultai commander...

[@koreyg8552]

Tip number 1: have a lot of money. The land base in cedh makes up majority of the cost of the deck and will run you over a K easily. Tip number 2: proxy your ass off instead

[@kieranheaton4951]

The WIDEST take on strip mine I have ever heard, as long as there 1000 usd lands legal in the format it will always be justified. However, great video.

[@ericwaraujo]

Would you run guys run Elves of the Deep Shadow, Farseek or Kodama 's reach in a Sultai deck with high cmc commander. Needs 6 or 7 cmc to come in safely. Scenario: Thinking elves would be the fastest and fixes a bit, but farseek finds a dual, and kodama's reach gets two lands to get up there, but much slower. The commander is the Mimeoplasm voltron. I know. But I want it fine tuned, within my budget - no duals - no mox diamond. Elves would also give me another body to edict in an otherwise creature light deck. (Yes, already running birds. Also fauna shaman and siren stormtamer, but no more creatures. OK Creeeping tar pit, dont laugh...might take it out...) Thoughts are appreciated.

[@r.c.beringuela2426]

Always run ramp when playing green. Cut the manlands, they're useless and slow you down.

[@FaLIStaff]

1:09 Strangely aggressive Discord promotion

[@andresabastante9539]

Tip number 6: always run every rainbow land. Always.

[@leress]

Not always, those that come into play tapped are sorta brutal.

[@andresabastante9539]

@@leress those should not be called lands hahahaha. I'm talking about the good ones OFC.

[@AtingsQuest]

These games are as fake as wrestling. With 29 lands! No mulligan, no Ponder or Preordain and else, no lands drop were missed for five to six turns...

[@pixeldemon3267]

It's random irl clumping happens