5 Tips for Handling Secrets and Surprises in D&D

[@jlh2b]

I’ve definitely held onto secrets for over a year before. In December, I revealed that the current main villain is a vampire, after giving out the first hints of it 1.5 years before, when they didn’t even know who the character was. I started really turning it up 10 sessions before the reveal. They still didn’t know until the first (but not last) combat, when she tried biting one of them, but it was so satisfying to hear them putting all the clues together in retrospect

[@Aarononautos]

I do sliding scale DCs. So if the set DC is 10 and the player(s) roll an 8, they get some of the info, but not much. If they roll 10, they get the basic gist. If they roll a 12, they get more detailed info. If they roll a 15, they get everything. I often give out the gist on a high roll and then let the players do some infilling for more details. Keeps the cooperative part going.

[@chrissimpson1183]

One twist per story, Rod Serling had one twist per Twilight Zone story.

[@AJBernard]

GLASS CANNON BABY! Member of the NAISH!! Love those guys. =) Once you finish Giantslayer, move on to Gatewalkers. But BE SURE you don't miss out on "Get In The Trunk," and "Androids and Aliens." not Pathfinder, but still GCP, and SO SO GOOD!

[@misfitadventurers]

Both of those are absolutely on my list!

[@AJBernard]

@@misfitadventurers They are SO GOOD! Someday I want to be half the GM Troy Lavallie is!!

[@masteringmarv446]

Pacing. Pacing. Pacing. That is the most important and most difficult aspect of DMing. You nailed it by calling it out as part of secrets revealed.

[@joshuabraddy6264]

Great vid! The point about an outlet is so important and doesn’t get talked about much at all! Love the point about pacing too - very difficult to learn and master but so key.

[@davidjennings2179]

Another great video! For the reveals that are low/no DC I like to tie it to a PC's past - the character whose camp was attacked has a flashback, the style of warpaint those Orcs used is the same as one on group they've just encountered. My biggest issue is remembering what I've revealed for the recap next session (especially if we have a big break) my most memorable was starting of the recap with "So last session you met Gallum's brother, Fren" that was met with players saying things like "Ohh, they're brothers, that makes sense - that's why Fren knew so much about him..." And that sinking feeling of revealing a clue with no flair. For podcast recommendations I've got a few great ones that aren't actual plays: malevolent (cthuluesque horror), The Penumbra - particularly the Juno Steel ones (futuristic noir PI type story), Mockery Manor (a murder mystery series set in a theme park) and The Magnus Archives (horror, mystery, great build up). For actual plays skyjacks and Skyjacks, courier's call are both great - set in a world of sky pirates. Saving what is potentially the best for last, Friends at the Table - they've got several settings - space mechs, fantasy, western and they go through a ton of different systems, often playing out their collaborative world building too.

[@cadenceclearwater4340]

The Calyx One-shots from Call of Cthulhu by Good Time Society It's the first actual play that hooked me and reeled me in.

[@rangleme]

I enjoyed your tips. I have generally run more Open-Table games. Players join with characters of their choice in essentially episodic one-shots. Adventures start and don't end until the mission is accomplished - in real-time. I also run a ton of one-shots for conventions. I've run many longer campaigns - 1-year or even 5-years - but as you say, those are LOTS of work. That 5-year campaign was one session from wrapping and now, 20-years later, the players still don't know all twists, turns, and secrets. I do, maybe someday we will finish it.

[@RIVERSRPGChannel]

Good points I’ve been doing this for a few decades and I’m still learning and trying to improve. Pacing can be tough. The players will always surprise you too. Good stuff

[@DMTalesTTRPG]

Always, great, Amanda! I had to keep in that I was adding a character from my novel for a couple of weeks and it was KILLING me.

[@DoktorApe]

This is... very different from how I handle things, although the difference is group and playstyle than either of us doing it "wrong." I give out secrets and lore pretty freely, I rarely make them skill checks, and I often have to give out the same secret/clue multiple times to get it to "stick" with my players. Overall, I find it more valuable for player engagement to have them understand what's going on. They might have a big surprise once in a while, but the players need to know a lot in order for a twist to have the right impact. When I do spring a twist on my players it needs a lot of foreshadowing. I do find it valuable to spread out information into a lot of little clues rather than one big one, both for pacing and for player retention. I'm also a big Mike Shea/Sly Flourish fan, so I try to follow his guideline of having 10 secrets and clues ready to give out per session (even if not all of them get used).

[@Frostrazor]

I give out info quite freely as well. The "DC" for such checks is more about how easily/complicated/consequence/entanglements that arise from inquiring about said info. The info getting in the PCs hands is going to happen. But who's feathers did you ruffle to get it?

[@brianvw2724]

Thanks for this one. I recently started building a new campaign and enlisted a friend outside of the campaign to help share the secrets and world building ideas. It really helps. As for suggesting campaigns...This is a short one, but the "Chain of Acheron" campaign with Matt Colville and MCDM is really really good. If you like it, you could follow up with their "Dusk" campaign which is also short. So if short campaigns are a turnoff, do 'em both together for a little more longevity. One small warning about the "Chain of Acheron": The first session is a doozy but as Matt talks about on his channel, it's a hot start and two of the players are in on it so it's not as much chaos and madness as it seems at first lol. It's just a setup for the rest of the campaign. I particularly love the world building as the DM clearly is old school in that he runs a world that evolves over many many campaigns. Since he's been running it since the 80's the world is really rich. kzbin.info/www/bejne/n4PLn6tqoa5piqMfeature=shared

[@nominevacans5546]

1. You can also break the information down into tiers. For example: PCs rolls less than 10 - mandatory info dump; less than 20 - a bandits wearing similar colors have been seen near Villadge Name; 20 and more - a leader of band carry suspicious resemblence of one of baron's bastard sons etc. 2. A hight and low rolls might not mean information itself but advance/hindrance of investigation. Example: a wizard goes to library to find whatever information party needs and rolls high. He meets another scolar researching similar topic (potential ally or enemy spy). P.S. mandatory pathfinder 2e plug: Recall Knowledge checks have a "secret" trait (GM rolls the check for this ability in secret), so PCs don't know was result high or low.

[@nathanaelthomas9243]

Though I haven’t seen most of what he’s done, I’ve really enjoyed anything Brennan Lee Mulligan has DM’ed and I’ve also enjoyed the Dungeon Dudes live play of Drakkenheim.

[@nathanaelthomas9243]

I made a homebrew campaign where I took all the player’s backstories and I connected all their ancestors to an event where heroes of old defeated an ancient evil that is coming back. I then gave them all a personal connection to one of his lieutenants that are working to bring him back. I did a ton of work to make their characters feel important to the overall narrative of the story so their success/failure and even death will feel important and I’ve been sitting on this reveal for 5yrs now and we’re just barely getting to the point where they’re about to figure it out. We only play once a month so it takes a long time.

[@michaelcrumlett187]

Good stuff! I’m hoping to drop two secrets on my group Friday night. We’ll see how the evening goes. I have a long commute, so I’ve been listening to RPG podcasts a lot. Love Glass Cannon, particularly Skid’s characters. I’ve also done CR, NADDPOD (Emily Axford is pretty awesome), and recently, High Rollers. If you haven’t listened to that one, Kim Richards’s character in the new campaign is simply awesome. Lots of good ideas in that game.

[@oginme716]

On rolling for important clues: If the party needs some bit of history, lore, information to move the campaign forward, I will create books, scrolls, letters, notes, etc. for the party to find. This avoids any rolls needed for them to get what they need. Any successful rolls will expand on what they need to know, but not block the progression of the campaign. I feel that this removes the railroady feeling of them rolling low and still getting the information they needed from a given source. If it is critical to one or more players, or to the plot, they will find the information in more than one form and place (three clue rule as someone already mentioned). This reinforces clues which are campaign critical versus side quest information.

[@AJBernard]

One tip for "information" DCs: If the information is essential to the progress of the story, the DC to find it is ZERO. If you gate progress in the campaign behind a die roll, your players WILL all roll nat 1s and bring your campaign to a screeching halt. Information gated behind die rolls should make things easier, or should uncover some cool element, but they should NOT be essential to the storyline or campaign progress. EDIT: Thats what I get for commenting before the video is finished. =) You said what I wrote a moment later. You rule!

[@misfitadventurers]

Lol! Great minds think alike!

[@qsviewsrpgs4571]

Great presnetation. I'll be checking out the rest of your videos.

[@andrewlustfield6079]

Overall, good stuff. As far as DCs, I typically follow the three clue rule if the story is at a point where they need something to advance the story, and even if they don't get it where they are, I provide another avenue to advance--it's the same principal as having multiple entrances to a dungeon. What you don't want to to have something wind up being a narrative dead end. Pacing is a tough one, and largely depends on the kind of campaign you are running. Starting our the game session in media res, in the thick of the action, has a lot of benefits, but might no be appropriate every time. Even when characters make a successful skill check roll, only provide information they could reasonably have access to---players can thrive on limited successes as long as they feel they are getting somewhere.

[@chrissimpson1183]

I ran Desert of Desolation, it took about four months to run. I sat on the twist the whole time wt out telling my players. Its a great module worth taking a look at.

[@joshd8443]

Great tips! Thanks for sharing 👍

[@Drudenfusz]

I really don't like to have the players roll for information. I give the information freely, but that does not mean I give them the answer, the important part is to interpret the information and I leave that completely to the players.

[@naroe2001]

I did a game system change from 5e to pf2e with my players mid campain Lvl7 characters. Theres wins and loses but overall really happy. Champion/Paladin and Bards completly different characters. Overall PF2e easier to plan fights. And dont forget Chat GPT, ask it to take a 5E monster/NPC and make a X lvl equivelant for Pf2e, it generate a good starting point for you to then massage. Watch out it does make stuff up though. I had an ability I didnt recognise and asked the origin and it said sorry for confusion I made that up inline with the creature description.

[@AJBernard]

Great stuff! thanks!

[@chrissimpson1183]

Have a plan B and C.

[@Brando2Shoes]

Well done.

[@AnimeNPC.]

Hardest secret is all the cool stuff I have planned for my players that I want to talk about but can’t lol.

[@Elderos5]

Tip #6 Hone your evil DM grin...😈👍

[@Frostrazor]

@5:39 No. If you want the info to "be something anyone can uncover because you really want that information to become known" then don't set any DC. Let them know it. Alternatively, you can have a DC to allow something else to happen ALSO on top of the info. But few thing grind a game to a halt faster than some key piece of info being unshared because it was trapped behind some "DC-wall". So instead, perhaps the DC was to see if perhaps the person giving the info then decided to help with the endeavor, or failed DC maybe they snitch about your inquiries, and now a third party interest. In other words it's not a fail/succeed about getting the info - that's necessary for the story/game to proceed - it's more about how tactfully and uncomplicated was it to get the info.

[@Ali_forward]

Good video!

[@derek2297]

In my opinion and experience, if a piece of info is vital to the story DO NOT put it behind a check of any sort.

[@Frostrazor]

THIS! If anything - make the "DC" about how easy or uncomplicated it was to get it. Perhaps failure still got the info, but wound up having to owe a favor or get entangled with a 3rd party or suspicion because you were poking your noses in where it didn't belong.

[@trollsmyth]

If you really need the players to learn info, DON'T SET A DC!!! What if everyone fails the roll? Better to just give them the info: "You search the desk? Ok, inside the drawer you find an envelope. The wax seal has been broken, but there's more than enough for you to recognize the stamp of the Hierophant of Shkeen." If the players *must* pass a check or dice roll for the campaign to continue, what are you going to do if they roll a 1 at the critical moment? Best to just dispense with the dice roll all together; save dice rolls for bonus information.

[@Frostrazor]

exactly.

[@charnelbane]

Just found your channel and the content is great. My ONLY criticism so far is, (As a person who's been playing since first edition) At my age the music, though nice, is just WAAAAAAYYY toooooo loud! There's a lot of times where I can't hear what you're saying . . . and what you're saying is interesting enough I WANT to hear it! (Going back to an older video the difficulty, for me, is the same.) I would LOVE to be included in your videos, but I can't with music so loud. Even with the captions on, the music is so distracting I can't even read it. Any way you can turn that music down a couple notches so it's actually background music and not foreground music? I'd like your voice to be the highlight of this video and it's not while having to compete with the music.