5 TRUTHS Warhammer Communities NEED TO HEAR

[@SunburntHands]

base sizes grew, the scale went from 28mm to 35mm, the table shrunk, big gribblies and vehicles became huge and a 2000 point army has twice as many models as 25 years ago. Games now look comically crowded.

[@petros9711]

I think a big part of what makes primaris get hate is the way that GW approached them. They purposefully made them have better rules than firstborn (and the story explanation of super super men was pretty weak too). So it was obvious that they were trying to force players to get the new models to be competitive. If primaris were just a new mark of armor using the same rules, not only would the models be better, but nobody would have hated on them like they do now.

[@thearmoredbugger9344]

I'm in agreement with that statement.

[@Random15738]

Agreed. Tbh, I really just wish they were honest in their approach to primaris marines. They should’ve just said “look we’re scaling up our models and will be making them like this from now on” and left it there, no new mcguffin lore.

[@charleshowie2074]

​@Random15738 I returned in 8th edition and that was my assumption. The in-universe explanation is deplorable.

[@Random15738]

@@charleshowie2074 dawg I started in 9th and once I learned about the upgrade lore… bro I rolled my eyes so hard, it’s a huge cop out😂😭

[@nicholassinnett2958]

@@Random15738 Yeah, I don't think it's wrong to say the lore for introducing Primaris was a cop-out at all, and even people who like Primaris will often admit it. It didn't feel like a real development with any build-up, it didn't feel like the Imperium earned it. Just "Cawl (guy you hadn't heard of until the last year or two) was sitting on these guys (who you never heard about) for 10K years and he finally stood up, they're bigger and better, buy new stuff pls". There's quite a few moments in the newer lore where it feels like they just put in the lowest amount of effort possible, but this is the biggest one.

[@Robster881]

I just wanted to add that "people don't want to use old models and so people do like Primaris" isn't a perticularly well constructed argument. The old models are too small, have cartoonish proportions compared to new models and often don't have rules for the modern game. That doesn't by default mean that people would much rather use the new models that are very different from the old ones. A large percentage of people would likely choose true scale first born over primaris, but we don't have that option (outside of some exceptions, but go look at those Terminators, they look great and sold very well). It's not a like for like comparison. Yes, people do want new models, but that doesn't mean that people want primaris over first born.

[@Einherjar212]

I like the proportions of primaris more, but a lot of character was lost since their introduction. I don't want armies of modern sci-fi operators, I want what the marines were meant to be since their inception. Technologically stagnant spaceknights. And don't even get me started on the hovertanks.

[@scepteredisle]

He made an incredibly stupid argument.

[@paulyg405]

The problem with your 5 truths argument is that you're coming at it via Primaris marines/marines in general which is probably the most contentious topic in the fandom. If you leave that aside and look at other factions - it would take some of the heat out of it. EG - the new leman russ for solar auxilia vs the current/old leman russ for guard. The new kit looks better, is better engineered, has nicer detail, builds better, all round it is just streets ahead. No one would be nostalgic for the 40k russ if it was replaced with the heresy one - except for maybe some of the metal components on the really old kits. I don't think it's possible to fairly judge the relative merits of primaris vs firstborn kits without engaging in good faith with the other arguments going on there though, by comparison. It's not just about the kits. It really isn't, no matter how much better the new ones might be technically. Also, we're talking about art here, on a broader point. Not engineering. No one's going to argue that an 1800s sewer system is better than a modern one because of retro charm. But if you talk about something like vintage vs modern cars, there's always going to be those people who would rather restore and lovingly maintain a 1920's Chevy than a new Lambo

[@Newovar]

Primaris have exactly one thing going on for them and that is scale. Everything else is controversial to say the least. Their armor designs are for the most part worse, their new tacticool weapons look horrible, their floating tanks look horrible, Reivers look horrible, Inceptors look horrible, Incursors look horrible, Suppressors look absolutely ridiculous. I get the same type of "uncanny valley"-not-real-Warhammer feeling you described talking about 3D-printed kits from looking at these designs. And let's not even get into the lore and how they completely go against a lot of central themes of the setting or the sheer brazen stupidity of replacing your setting's poster boys. And looking back what was the damn point? Their Horus Heresy line also introduced good looking modern models with way better scale than the older "Firstborn" Space Marines without having *any* of these compromises and no one is getting mad about those. Let's face that the people who were spurned by the introduction of Primaris and had their armies invalidated by GW will likely never get over it and that's perfectly fine and rational. Once bitten, twice shy. They will also keep complaining just like people still complain about GW's destruction of Warhammer Fantasy because this is just a very passionate fandom with very invested people. You like Primaris? You like Age of Sigmar? Good for you but don't expect people to feign positivity surrounding these things when they embody the reason why they can't enjoy their hobby anymore (or at least to the same extent).

[@intlidave]

Incursors are OK if you give them a full helmet. Reivers have ugly default helmets, but if you put the old "beakie" helmets on them, they go from 0 to 10. Inceptors and the floating tanks are irredeemable crap though. So is their new lore.

[@Newovar]

@@intlidave Incursors and Reivers are emblematic of my gripes with the Primaris design philosophy. They are overdesigned (compared to the wonderful simplicity of firstborn marines), tacticool and their overall shapes are rounded to a point where their silhouette doesn't even resemble a space marine anymore. Take away their backpacks and they look more like something out of Halo or another Sci Fi universe. Not a fan.

[@delilahfox3427]

I think old marines look trash compared to primaris. Primaris have better dynamic posing, better detail, and better scale. If GW had remained with the firstborn style of minis where "man hold gun across chest", I never would have bought into the game. As someone that owns 100+ old termagants, the new ones look so much better because they are more dynamic and unique model to model. I have the same opinion on all old GW models.

[@Gridash]

Well said, fully agreed. They could have just done an update like they gave to Chaos Space Marines. Nobody complained about that. The Primaris marines were first and foremost a way to make people rebuy their armies. Primaris marines are just soulless in comparison to first born.

[@knobjob2839]

The main thing that got me was scale creep. The monsters and vehicles are SO much bigger. You need a lot of space for a decent army.

[@Tehstampede]

At first I liked the scale increase after having played since 3rd edition, but the more models I painted the less I liked the size increase.

[@inigobrowning]

One thing the firstborn armour has going for it is the interchangeability. A Mk7 head with Mk6 legs, Mk3 shoulder pads and so on, all on one marine is a cool concept. (To me at least) :)

[@sonicwingnut]

It extends to Primaris tbh - I just built 10 death company all with firstborn jump packs, shoulder pads and various heads including some MKIII and MKVI ones and they look absolutely badass. The poses on the primaris jump marine sculpts are so much more dynamic if you pose the arms and heads right, and you use the seperate purity seals and trinkets to convey a sense of motion.

[@flindude2681]

another reason why that is good is the actual marines do that in lore, allot of times salvaging broken suits with what they have. Allot of 40k stuff is hand me downs.

[@felipearias5622]

You can still do that, 1stborn shoulderpads, heads and weapons fit primaris perfectly.

[@egnaroelprup]

​@@sonicwingnutit's just assault intercessors but standing on tiny rocks

[@sonicwingnut]

@@egnaroelprup Assault intercessors look cool too though. If you can't make them look dynamic AF it's a skill issue. Like I keep seeing people pick the wrong body to put the eviscerators on so they look like they're cuddling it instead of charging in. The firstborn DC and SG kits are literally just "raise one leg".

[@madfjohn1]

I think you are missing something here. It's not that people do not like the new kits. It's more that people do not like being told they can not use their old stuff anymore. This is coming from Roug Trater player who still plays and got things from the old Tin Boys to the latest Squighog boyz

[@TheDaisyFeet]

Sorry who exactly is stopping anybody playing with their old models? It's like people think the rules from GW are the word of God and if you deviate from them for a second something bad will happen.

[@politestreetdog8739]

@@TheDaisyFeet mostly kompetitive players

[@vintageman91]

You can still play old editions, not as supported however. I prefer 9th over 10th edition.

[@DominatorLegend]

@@TheDaisyFeet Many people can't build private playgroups and can only rely on LGSs to play, and most LGS regulars are the "only legal, only latest update, no Legends" kind of players.

[@Tehstampede]

@@TheDaisyFeet that's a strawman and you know it. GW is heavily and in some cases explicitly (in the case of Legends) disincentivizing people from using models they bought in contemporary games of 40k, by making older models less efficient on the tabletop or just relegating them to Legends where they are explicitly never supported again. People enjoy being able to go into a shop and play a pickup game of 40k with other people, and in order to do so both people typically are using the current version of 40k. It is extremely rare to find someone else interested in playing a previous version of 40k, even if previous versions are more fun to actually play in some people's opinions. People are drawn to hobbies with established lore, history, and a universal game system because these elements create a sense of belonging and connection. A shared universe with established stories and traditions allows for people to feel like they're a part of something larger than themselves, where they can immerse in a common narrative that inspires creativity and a sense of community. Having a shared, collective understanding and enthusiasm for the current version of the game fosters continuity, consistency, and a meaningful point of connection between fans around the world. I have nothing in common with some dude living in a rural town in Italy, but if he's a fan of 40k then we both know about the immortal god emperor of mankind and if we can understand each other, we can have a conversation about that without knowing anything else about each other.

[@boop2908]

Correction, the plastic sternguard kit came out in 2014, it was around for 9 years. And I do think the amount of bits you got made it one of the best kits for making characters we ever got.

[@noahl9073]

Nothing wrong with 3D printing, me personally, I use it to print models for other games or for my friends so they can get into warhammer.

[@christophermiller8381]

I definitely like the look of primaris marines. I thought they were just the natural evolution of GW's process. I cannot believe the lore explanation was so bad. I would have gladly accepted a handwave of "these are new models, more accurately representing space marines" instead.

[@AAhmou]

The lore explanation could have been as simple as: new mark X armour, and they got some new gear. No need to make Cawl's 10k years old secret stash.

[@moderndavinci6599]

Perfectly said tbh

[@d-rex7043]

Reason: The size looks better. Lore required: 💁🏻‍♂️

[@jag1519]

I get that, but unpopular opinion? I like that something happened. I think it comes down to how it's written and proposed. The idea of Cawl committing a great tech heresy in developing something new in the stagnant Imperium. The implications that could carry, the advancement as the stakes grow. Everything but the Imperium can advance and evolve and does so pretty regularly. Particularly Tyranids. I get it seems lame if you view it as "Super soldiers get super-er", then yeah that sucks. But, I don't think it's a bad idea, it just needs to be fleshed out more in following novels. However I also consider the implications. The Psyche of the Space Marines knowing they've undergone one process and survived.. What about the Primaris process? What if they die after fighting all of these battles? What about the brothers they lose in it? What traditions will rise or fall, what chapters may be founded revolving around this? A single change like this can have a large ripple effect.

[@moderndavinci6599]

@@jag1519 I do like cawl as a character

[@dumpsterfriar6732]

I like the old models, the have more feel of the setting. The new models are too big and clean, they don't make it feel like 40k at all. The grimdark of 40k means that all these models should be big and clunky and hard to use with the caked on grime of thousands of years. The older models didn't have cleancut jawlines and greco-roman chins, they look like they took a cinderblock to the face because they probably did when they were 12, fighting gangs in their hive city. I loved trading mini's with friends and stripping the paint from the pewter models and putting my own colors on this veteran on dozens of battles and the pewter models will still have decades of war left for them after their plastic counterparts have shattered and are nothing dust on their bases.

[@paulyg405]

completely agree!

[@catcadev]

This is kinda a crazy point. Worse models = better because they're clunky??? Perhaps your REAL issue is with the paintjobs.

[@murdomackenzie4756]

Surely it's the paint job that makes them grimdark?

[@paulyg405]

@@murdomackenzie4756 paint job, but also the scale. I do think the new models are too big and clean, but the old ones weren't all grimdark just because they were more historical scale. Some maybe

[@Blackhedelic_blues]

Bro drank the kool-aid

[@eeko01]

I play a horde army and to me 3d printing is absolutely essential to keep it interesting. If I’m to paint and push 120 boyz to the table, there needs to be more variety than what’s in the latest monopose kit. 3d printing helps me push a cool variety of orkstodes, samurai orks, stormtrooper orks, mad max orks etc. to the middle of my ragtag band of jolly boyz through the ages.

[@KrakDuk]

I couldn’t disagree more. I think it’s disingenuous to say the old ones are objectively worse for a bunch of subjective reasons.

[@Shmimbleton]

By this attitude we can never discuss art

[@caboose3191]

​​@@Shmimbleton no you can. You just can't say that they are *objectively* better in looks or style

[@loltwest9423]

The only reason people prefer Primaris is purely because of the scale and proportions. If we were to take the classic marine range and fix its scaling and proportions, many people would gravitate towards them over Primaris. I know for sure that I would. Hell, just look at the Horus Heresy range. As to address the 3D printer point, I have seen 3D printed proxies that put GW models to shame with how much better they are. They make the GW equivalence look cartoonish and goofy. The problem is the upfront cost, learning how to do it (safely), and finding the sculpts. Basically, you have to be dedicated and hardcore, if you will. Most people aren't like that. They don't want to make, what is essentially a lab in their house. That's perfectly fine and reasonable.

[@delilahfox3427]

I personally hate old GW sculpts, not because the detail or scaling is worse, but because every model looks the same. Man holds gun across chest. The new style of "monopose" GW minis look so much more dynamic, and that is way better to me than 10 guys that look like they're standing at attention or whatever. Good example, look at the old termagants vs the new ones. The old ones legitimately looked identical. The new ones have guns pointing in different directions, some have their tongues out, their tails look fluid. So much better than an alien with a gun pointing forwards.

[@clydemarshall8095]

I think your take on 3D printing is a bit misinformed. It really doesn’t take much to print great looking proxies. I have multiple friends who do it.

[@lordhamster9452]

Agreed It doesn’t take a crazy advanced machine to get good results. And if you’re not willing to play for good models, ok the choice is yours. But I am quite happy to compensate artists for their efforts. True, it isn’t for everyone. I agree. But what is?

[@Sofjensdjrkfdkejsjsj111]

Ate tactical rocks, ate monopose, ate primaris (not races jus don’t like em) luv me Land Raider luv Boxnaut luv me derpy Orks simple as

[@boycottwarhammer6016]

I respect your opinion, the mid 00s kits that have more modularity and less modern monopose give you more options for easy kitbashing and customising, one of the reasons why I love and still grab firstborn when I can over primaris before the lore is even touched on

[@omnissiahGaspar]

I think it's a little dishonest to compare the out of scale squatty firstborn stuff next to a modern dynamic well-detailed sculpt. I think the Mark 7 armour, if in pure primaris 9 heads tall scale with chunky legs and bodybuilder proportions along with modern detailing and in general modern poses make the complete perfect space marines. Even comparing Space Marine Heroes models to intercessors is like night and day, and they're still a teensy bit smaller than primaris. Frankly it comes down to many people thinking that everything about firstborn (in concept) represents 40k as a setting much more effectively

[@omnissiahGaspar]

I think another point to draw on is the simple comparison of firstborn artwork vs primaris artwork, you aren't held back by model scale there and you can much easily see how on a generic asthetic level firstborn fit the 'grimdark evil super soldier' style much better

[@altulbluo404]

While i agree with parts of this wideo i think you completely missed the mark with 3d prints , yes there are solid amaunt of medicore to bad sculps but there also many great ones

[@TheGreyWolf94]

I really feel you're beating that GW selling drum hard here dude. Picked the worst 3D print images I've seen in a long time and used them as a base for your argument 😂 Clearly you've never 3D printed or looked for decent 3D sculptors. Have a look at 'Makers Cult' or 'Red Makers'. I've printed out an entire Valhallan and Steel Legion army which is great quality because GW shafted us with their prices and continue to do so as well as cutting off access to said models. Why pay £35 for a box of 10 guys when I can buy and print like 4-5 squads for that. Or in my case £55 + for some shyte cast metal ones? GW are out of their mind. Furthermore, GW shat on people from a great height with their old armies saying they're not "legal" to use in games anymore like first borns etc. ya'know armies people put a lot of money, time and graft into. Sure you don't secretly work for them?

[@scepteredisle]

He might literally be the worse most conceited person who's ever made a YT video on Warhammer ever.

[@TheGreyWolf94]

@@scepteredisle I'm not doing to insult the man, but he's out of his depth and very biased towards the multimillion dollar corporation. Like most WH KZbinrs, he's probably after getting on GWs cuck list to get freebies and stuff from them.

[@armorist_8712]

Not to mention, if a 3D printed model really is THAT bad, then just paint it bro. Everything looks so much better once you give it a good paintjob. A good paintjob can literally make or break a model. You can make so much more units with a printer for less even if they're not "GW quality" and just hide imperfections with skillful paint application.

[@JustinBrown-gh9vv]

Sunk cost fallacy. You bought into the new supply, so now you're invested. News flash, one day primaris will be the old guard on the chopping block, and you'll be the guy yelling about how your favorite models are the best. Anyone reading this, play with your guys and have fun.

[@DominatorLegend]

I'm betting 20 bucks they're gonna be called Maximaris.

[@filthybrown]

the real sunk cost fallacy is people saying the old models are better purely because they have a load. i love the really early models, and the cutting edge new ones, but the cutting edge new ones are the ones that are currently available. to say it's a sunk cost fallacy to think the latest models that are freely available and fit the current aesthetic are preferable to out of production models that are a different scale and aesthetic isn't a strong argument. and it shouldn't even be a debate, people like what they like. why can't you accept that people might just like the new models for what they are? why insert the need for a fallacy of some kind? do you think people pretend to like the new stuff just to annoy you?

[@DominatorLegend]

Newer kits also come with a lot less options and purposedly engineered to prevent kitbashing (without having to twist your back to do so). That Cadian you showed? Old one is built so it can seamlessly incorporate bits from even other brands. New one only accepts the stuff that came in the box. And don't even get me started in how hard you missed the mark with the 3D printing point. These aren't truths, these are extremely misinformed opinions.

[@catcadev]

Or, newer kits are more efficiently laid out so that more can be made. Or, people complained about kits never having all the datasheet options includes, so they took the options which weren't in the kit out.

[@DominatorLegend]

​@@catcadev Skill issue. This is a war game, not a TCG. Get creative.

[@Ian-fw2fp]

1. i've never heard of anyone complain about the old kits vs new, especially on space marines, primarily people just wanted them to keep the same designs but make the model look better instead of replacing it with new shit 2. people online have been bitching about getting new models for certain things for a while, the issue isn't that we don't want any new shit, the issue is that we want new shit for everything consistently not just a constant onslaught of space marines with a few sprinklings of things here and there, we want them to update the most outdated stuff first before moving on to other stuff, they just released a new cadian kit right before they updated them again for 10th ed, it'd only been out for a few months, where's the excuse for that? especially when catachan like you showed is in desperate need for new stuff 3. the issue most people have is with the lore, not the porportion/scale/etc, we just wanted them to redo the scaling on the first born, in lore it doesn't make sense for them to exist, the mechanicus arent gene editors, they view gene editing and any biological engineering to be pointless and a waste of time, it runs entirely counter to their whole religion, and even then if the emperor couldn't design a super soldier that could be immune from chaos, how can cawl? what secret knowledge did cawl have that big E somehow didn't? 4. the reason people do this shit has nothing to do with thinking 3D prints look better, it's about the price 5. i've never seen this anywhere, everyone i've seen is happy that what they like is getting updated, the main issue going on is lore, the only complaint i've seen outside of the primaris and whatnot is GW basically forcing people to run a squad of ork boyz as half shootas and half sluggas with the included options with no ability to run them as all shootas or all sluggas GW isn't perfect, we know this but it just seems like youre glazing them for no reason

[@DominatorLegend]

The new Ork kit is absolutely dreadful. I'll take the old any day.

[@Gragel_Fragel]

i told my t'au player friend, ENJOY your crisis suit models before they get updated because there gonna go the way of the space marine where there gonna lose all that fun design flexabbility and be a monopose un changeable weapons kit, there arleady doing that to them rules wise just wait for the next edition and it will happen, the models will look better sure but they'll lose there soul and what people loved about them liek what i loved about my death company being able to take a wide array of weapons, only reason i did 10 power fists in 10th is cause every other weapon was just genuinely terrible

[@ngangkh]

I'm glad my units all just say accursed weapon or close combat weapon cos that way I can just arm them however I want.

[@Ian-fw2fp]

Another thing, the reason their stock is increasing is because 40k is finally breaking into the main stream, as well as them finally properly tapping into the video game market, thus new customers they didn't have before have shown up, it's not the models that did it, new people are obviously gonna get the most recent up to date models that are easier to get a hold of

[@ajirawa5729]

As a person who never liked primaris, but also doesn’t like the scaling of firstborn, I chose to go down the route of 3d printing truescale firstborn marines. Now I have an army of 3d printed truescale firstborn on the way. From seeing the models I have printed so far, I promise you they look gw quality. There are many many great stls out there sitting in the pile of bad ones. You just need to look in the right places to find the good stuff. I think this video really misrepresents what the 3d printing community has to offer. There are so many passionate people in the community out there creating awesome stuff. They’re always fighting with gw, so that is why many of the good files have been taken down, but you can still find them if you know where to look. They’re always preserved somewhere.

[@shanepatrick4534]

3d printing is the future of tabletop gaming

[@Robster881]

The video misrepresents a lot of stuff tbh.

[@livingghost7975]

A lot of the new marines feel generic especially the fumble that was like 70% of the blood angels refresh like they seemed to be designed with the idea of van we make it an ultramarine and go off from there.

[@Gragel_Fragel]

the main issue with the "new" death company is they arent even a special posed kit they are just assault intercessors there is nothing special, sure i dont like the new sang guard much but atleast they got unique in some catagories but with DC the only thing unique about them is a new shoulder pad and a eviserator, people calling them new pisses me off because they arent new nothing about them is new except one weapon and LESS customisation in the kit, atleast with Coteaz that abomination i can call him a new model but the DC all i can call them is Lazy and just a unit ive already been sold

[@Zakaylis]

Primaris legs are crazy out of proportion yet no one is talking about it

[@cleeiii357]

Nah, they are more in proportion than the old ones. Even the newer non-primaris marine models (Such as the new Mk6 used in 30k and some 40k characters like Astorath and Castellan Crowe who aren't Primaris) also have better proportions than the old models still.

[@Zakaylis]

I disagree. They look cool in a comical way but definitely not realistic. The main problem with older models was the torso was too short.

[@catcadev]

I think they look better. They make the legs look solid and that's how they always should have been

[@ktg8030]

The biggest problem with the newer models is the size creep. They look great in a display case, but the bigger the models, the less room on a gaming table for them. There is no room to maneuver anymore so GW introduces cards and stratagems and so on to help make you think you are having a good time since the game is absent of tactics. As far as Primaris, I find them very boring. What I loved about the first born is that over the years their armor was so varied, representing parts being used from different generations of power armor, that it really gave them character. Loved the art for marines around 6th edition. Now all the primaris look the same, even among different chapters, and its really boring. Really really boring. Every player has the same pose, same bodies, across the same units.

[@egnaroelprup]

Comparing old models to new models is a tad disingenuous Sprue layout, the amount of "stuff" you get in a sprue, they have the capacity to make the build process an enjoyable experience, but they don't, they engineer it is cheap as possible, while raising prices, less parts, less rules, more money

[@richardmoskalyov8503]

Boy, stop beating around the bush; the biggest problem people have about the newer stuff is never about the look; it's always been the price.

[@robertedwardhughes9172]

Fully correct on the price point, that said I don’t like the new cadia stuff. I really prefer the old proportions and the Rogal Dorn, while awesome, really toned down the silliness factor compared to the russ or baneblaxe variants

[@shrike7774]

It's fucking both.

[@warhounds]

Oh let me think about that, shit designs like coteaz, retcon in the lore such as femstodes, the constant scale creep of EVERYTHING which adds nothing, change for the sake of change, most kits are monopose so you build 5 of the same sculpt 20 times that can be built only one way. Also compare the death company troopers with the "new" ones

[@FS92a]

GW was expensive when I was 12 and it’s expensive in my 30s. The price has always stung but it’s clearly not a line in the sand for a lot of people. Otherwise terms like ‘pile of shame’ wouldn’t exist.

[@DominatorLegend]

​@@robertedwardhughes9172 Macharius > Dorn

[@Mt-zr5bf]

Did you have sources for your claims or is this just "trust me Bro"? I was interrestingly listening the first half, but than it became to much fanboyism. You didnt answer why you prefer Primaris lore over firstborn and you compared primaris with some firstborne kits of 1998. Why didnt you compared them with the Horus Heresy firstborne? Yes newer kits have more stuff in it, but i still prefere to give my models individual poses over These 10 Default poses. Look at new Heroes and Champion models and you will see, there is a repetition in their poses. And the 3D rant is debunked over and over again. And the guys who joined the hobby post 2017, arent representstativ.

[@vintageman91]

I slowly joined the hobby in 2018, but more and more from 2020 onwards and i prefer firstborn.

[@nordrako16]

A couple things about 3D printing: • I agree that most proxies the 3D print guys brag so much about are in that uncanny valley or just outright worse. • Finding the files and getting enough variety is not the easiest. BUT • There are some amazing files, some 1:1 and some even better that GW's in my opinion. • I outsource my prints 12k quality and still get stuff like 10 marines at 10€. • An 8k res printer can print detail as fine as plastic and a 12k is superior. The way light interacts with resin affects how you percieve it, but once primed or painted it gets so much better.

[@calzoni_325]

‘Truths’= a video that’s chock full of very subjective points apparently

[@user-kx2uz6vo9g]

nah, its true

[@ThatGuy-eu2vt]

​@@user-kx2uz6vo9gthis is why no one likes 40k fans

[@mustardmarauder9439]

I think primaris look too much like Buzz Lightyear

[@Aanderan]

oi don't hate the plastic spawn - it's a bits lover wet dream and the awkward joint gaps pay off a thousand times over with the amount of choice these kits give you. The sculpt themselves are more than fine and fit with modern models A modern release will without a doubt sacrifice everything that makes this kit from warhammer's mid-life so beautiful

[@Aanderan]

ough and on spaceman helmets; I never liked the D: helmets as the standard haha. People claim it's iconic or unique, but they're clearly riffing on stormtroopers + vader. Personally nothing beats the beakies with the very concept of hounskul helmets on scifi-knights hit the nail on the head back in the 80's - but I'll take the MKIV armet styled helmet for the rank and file any day of the week over the D:

[@pateroon]

GW built its brand off of IP theft. I don't feel bad when someone steals from them.

[@clydemarshall8095]

I actually quite like first born models too despite not growing up with them, but then I also love old games and their aged graphics too.

[@blitzkrieg8776]

While I agree the newer kits are better overall, the main issue people have is the price of the hobby now. That's why 3D printing has been increasing at a decent rate.

[@glitch200]

What a shill.

[@petros9711]

Horus Heresy marine kits are the best of both worlds. Some primaris armor styles are good, some suck. Pretty much all primaris vehicles look like absolute garbage compared to first born vehicles.

[@nicholassinnett2958]

Agreed. I like that the new HH stuff upscaled things, without getting rid of the basic Firstborn aesthetic that got me into Marines before. I'm not 100% happy with some of the choices, like engineering them to not be able to take things like variant torsos out of the box, but that's less aesthetics and more engineering. And yeah, Primaris are highly variable for me quality-wise. Kits like the Heavy Intercessors and bikers look good, but I wouldn't buy Aggressors or the vast majority of the vehicles (basically any except the Forge World one) if my life depended on it.

[@adeptuspotatocus6451]

#1 is a complex subject. How you judge a kit depends on the quality of the sculpt, style of the sculpt, posability, options, intercompatibility with other kits, scaling, ease of assembly, etc... You can't just measure it by one metric. #2 Fair. A lot of old models are derpy. #3 Primaris were a mistake, lorewise. "Firstborn" kits made in "Primaris" scale would have been drastically less divisive. #4 3D Printing is another art form and hobby in and of itself. It depends on a ton of variables. It can definitely feel off or not match GW models, but it can also exceed GW's sculpts. #5 The customer is always right in matters of taste. It's your hobby and your money, do what you want.

[@CliosPaintingBench]

'truth' seems to be doing some heavy lifting, tricky word, that. I don't really know if it's fair to call anyone the arbiter of truth

[@danielbrisch5029]

What bothers me is that the scale of the miniatures and vehicles is being increased. It's moving too far away from tabletop gaming itself, more in the direction of action figures or collectible figures for display cases.

[@Renegade666]

The worst part of Primaris was they updated the Chaos space marine kit to the same size and didnt change the rules. They shoehorned truescale into SM by making the models better on the tabletop than firstborn, whereas us Chaos boys got the same rules. I can legally field a 1988 Chaos Renegade model and it will be exactly the same as the latest kit.

[@Birdofman]

Repeating the same point over and over again doesn't make you convincing

[@krisowrey7260]

A lot.of the new kits are very static and hard to kitbash. I think necromunda has been the best compromise so far.

[@AresGodofWargames]

i don´t know bro, I agree commercially they are marketing to the lowest common denominator, and that may be why you like the newer kits.

[@HyperLethal0100]

Based

[@libertyprime2013]

If the primaris were more interchangeable I’d like them more. I tend to like a lot of the 30k stuff because it’s larger scale and it’s interchangeable. I do like the look of a lot of the new kits but the problem is that GW intentionally is trying to make it harder to kitbash and is intentionally reducing bits which imo is bad. I also don’t like kits being replaced by upgrade sprues.

[@libertyprime2013]

I collect all of them including primaris, old world, etc., just not a fan of the guiding philosophy behind 10th edition, loss of bits, kits being lost to upgrade sprues. It’s why I like old world. Tons of options.

[@WarbossFitz]

Consume product

[@zetsuz3828]

Bro the funniest part is that 3D sculptors manage to make better minis than the company that PRODUCES THE MINIS. GW bloated space marine faction range even more with addition of Primaris with many useless shit like ATV and Suppressors, but they cant even redo the old stuff properly (as you can see with Blood Angels). So yeah, it is funny how little effort it takes for freelance guys to outdo and outperform (in terms of customers satisfaction) big wargaming company. If they would continue to mindlessly chase profits it`s gonna bring their downfall, and even fanboys like you wont save them. Companies nowadays forget that short time profit can cost long time losses, as trust takes a long time to gain but is easy and quick to lose.

[@Centurian-br4cs]

I agree that the new kits look better as a stand alone kit. what I don't like with the direction of space marines is that it lost a lot of its customisation it's harder to make them different from everyone else you will have a box of 20 intercessors that looks like the other guys intercessors but with a different paint colour also that became less flexible tactical squads could be equipped for any target Primaries are less versatile. Great kits yes less options in those kits also yes.

[@mathquizard]

Yeah, well...thats just like, you're opinion man.

[@scrumptiousbutternut6129]

The reason a lot of 3d prints look really weird in pictures is because lots of resin is somewhat transparent, this gives the edges a really soft "play-doh" like look. Once they're painted that goes away and their detail is as crisp as hard plastic (Given your printer is capable of that level of detail). The quality of the designs matters here too of course, which is always up for interpretation and there are loads of terrible space marine proxies in particular. Because 3D printing is its own hobby, there are lots of people who just like printing stuff out, and never painting it, it's actually amazing how even on the biggest 3d printing sites, even the most popular and most attractive designs often have no pictures uploaded. Don't let 3d printing enthusiasts get on your nerves though, just think about how their autistic enthusiasm is the same way people think about you when you try to get them into warhammer.

[@armorist_8712]

Yeah that comment about 3D prints looking "even worse" when you print them out was really shocking. You would think that with the hobby experience he has, he would know a potato model could be brought to legendary status with a skillful paintjob.

[@artycharr]

After blood angels just got done so dirty, I cannot believe the newer is better mentality, if you dont believe me go look at most third party bits sites making tons of blood angel stuff to replace the flavor that GW stripped from them, and its not even range bloat, its just laziness, "oh paint it red and its a blood angel" no baroque carving, heraldry etc you have to buy a limited in scope upgrade sprue for that. also personal aside the primaris helmets look wank, like the kind of helmet kids wear when they scoot about the park on dirt bikes, they dont look intimidating in the slightest.

[@Trinioutsider34]

My real gripe with GW right now is it seems every few months they’re jacking up their prices on everything. The recent Death Company boxset came with price increase here in Canada. I no longer go to any GW stores here in Toronto I just head to my local hobby shops instead. Combat Patrols alone are 200$ CAD with less models inside of them.

[@DominatorLegend]

They just did another increase with the KT sets. The Scout set is now like ten bucks a mini, which is absolutely dreadful.

[@Trinioutsider34]

@@DominatorLegend Wow, that's something else.

[@catcadev]

I think they need to lower prices now. $175 is a good price for a Combat Patrol not $200. Competition in the industry and falling sales might fix this issue. GW is a shareholder company after all

[@Trinioutsider34]

@catcadev They should make them at least 130-140$. There's no reason they should even be 175$ either. They've been stripping down Combat Patrols more and now. GW raised prices recently because their upper management was making too much money recently.

[@inquisitorvuln]

These are opinions, not truths. "A lot of people" feeling a certain way doesn't make it the truth, just a popular opinion either way. On the point of Primaris Marines; as the firstborn rules and kits are continually depleted, weakened and replaced, we barely have a choice as to what Space Marines we can use officially in 40k. People want to play Space Marines in modern 40k, we are forced to play Primaris Marines if we want to play Space Marines in modern 40k. If Primaris got replaced tomorrow, more hobbyists would understand where the true discontent towards change comes from in this hobby. But hey, you are entitled to your opinions. I just disagree with them.

[@Lycurgus1982]

You didn't show any of the god-awful new designs. Particularly in the vehicle department. Let us not forget that these primaris are not of the emperor's design and Robert and his space smerfs are the douchbags of Astartes. Long live 40k in the 41st millennium.

[@JerzyBaksinski]

Almost 20 minutes of systematically proving you have no idea what you're talking about.

[@HyperLethal0100]

Yeah he’s losing my sub lol

[@margaretwood152]

🤔100% ▶15:25 According to GW Insiders, it was HORUS HERESY 1.0 that _"Saved"_ GW from going "Almost Going Under" under in 2012-2013, not Primarus Marines in 2015. (* and the Best Selling GW Kit of all time is the MKVII Tactical Squad, *_not Primarus Intercessors._* ) "Old Good - New Bad...Splish-Splash: *_Your Opinion Is TRASH."_* Here's why (if u'd like to learn a bit about the Hobby you've recently entered) kzbin.info/www/bejne/gp-6lGqXrNuKppo

[@user-kx2uz6vo9g]

Old models look horrible

[@theonetruelordofthedecepti1954]

Ok I’m going to come at this with my weird perspective. With that said I started collecting warhammer and space marines in general in 2021/2022 and chose the black Templars because I found The regular primaris models boring not their paint scheme or anything just the models themselves. It was firstborn marines that drew me to space marines but I didn’t realise at the time they were different. I will give you credit that sure some of the new models have better quality or realism I guess but I find the older kits nicer to handle the freedom of chose to with all the weapon options and everything. I still believe that primaris models look dull and the updated versions of firstborn kits like the leviathan stern guard are inferior to the firstborn counterparts. Also you scaling of the new scouts to the old ones is criminally wrong the are pretty small but not more than a guardsman. Also speaking of the guard I prefer the older more heroic scale as to me 40k is escapism especially the table top I prefer the idk less realistic models or more cartoony still if that’s how you see it, their charm is just better and better reflects the absolute absurdness of the games I have had. I do think that maybe some of the new kits have better poses or go together nicer but have three or even two of the same squads look incredibly similar or the same. Also you showed the like 2004-2012 tactical marine squads spure (which has many gaps like the terminators) not the 2013 tactical marine squad is very similar to the new spure gaps I know cause I have bought and built both and the older than the 2013 marines mouldlines are pretty bad but they feel far more satisfying to clean up. Lasting I would like to add that the newer primairs dreadnoughts are worse to put together that the older ones and the outriders suck unlike the old bikes which btw mouldlines aren’t bad on. Anyway I do agree with your final statement of people liking want they want I will continue to buy firstborn and you can buy the primaris and we can all have fun, in this regard you are 100% right. That being said I think you did the firstborn dirty in some of the comparisons and I also think it would have been nice to represent some of the good and bad of both, this currently to perhaps just me feels like a hit piece against firstborn. Well this is long umm… hope you’re all doing well and have a good one regardless of your opinion cya

[@AW-qz4kk]

have you seen the blood angel kits???

[@ProffesorHeadgear]

My biggest gripe with the new blood angels is that for the most part they look like red/black/gold ultramarines. None of the artistic aspect of the blood angels are really present in the new kits. The difference between the regular firstborn tactical squad and the BA version is huge even though it's technically the same unit. Make the Blood Angels artists again, damnit!

[@TheProteanGeek]

The problems a lot of people have with the new ones is not all the things you mention but instead with some models the loss of detail and customisation is where things fall down compared to the older ones. I'm a Blood Angels player and man the new kits feel like they stripped a lot of that character away. Death Company are back to just being black regular marines and the Sanguinary Guard have lost their custom armour look. The problem is more that the new things could have been much better. There is so much I really love in other armies that has come out in 9th and 10th though. I mean who can think that the old Be'lakor is better than the new.

[@krakenattacken8230]

2:11 feels a little dishonest. sure the new deathwing knights are cool but the deathwing in full is gone. reduced to an upgrade kit, which I hope you understand isn't even close to as cool as a separate kit

[@mostcomplicatedman8115]

Gabriel Seth was right

[@Cadiastand-upcomedy]

I play grey knights, and I almost always love new models. Except grey knight Terminators, I don't want them to ever change. They don't suffer from the posing problem because whatever arms or legs you give them, they still look badass. Purifiers can change, though. If they were all like castellan crowe, that would be awesome

[@odinlindeberg4624]

I use a combination of Horus Heresy Mk6es and Mk3s, Khorne Berzerkers and printed bodies and bits to build my Night Lords. I'd say they're about 50 % printed on average. I'd also say they have GW quality and that the unique style I've given them makes them stand out and shine compared to store bought, straight-built chaos marines.

[@Nook772]

On the topic of 3D printing you can find models that are just strait up scans, or models that are insanely close, closer then he is showing, if you want to find 3D printed models that look the same you just have search hard. I have found almost exact copies for free just by looking a bit

[@khurdur2939]

he doesn't want to say that, he will lose out on "supporting GW"

[@mylittlepkle1714]

damn bro cherry picked some images of bad 3d proxies and said case closed lol

[@podger_minis]

Actually I spoke for 15 minutes to make slightly more nuanced points than that but of course I can cheat with some visual assistance ;)

[@robertedwardhughes9172]

So true! My brother prints proxies. His terminators and vehicles always come out great, haven’t seen any standard marines yet thi

[@mangoman9290]

What a whingefest

[@adamkadir3803]

The only thing I like about primaris are the proportions. My primaris have MkIII and MkVI parts. Shoulders, heads, backpacks, guns. Headcannon is they're all firstborn, but you basically have to play with primaris rules. Really, thoroughly can't stand primaris lore, and don't like how GW's approach to primaris feels like they're washing out the grimdark from space marines. Edit: You're so, so correct about point 5! You like what you like. Do your thing. Your money and your time.

[@maudit6066]

Your take on 3D printing is absolute ass, I saved myself and friends hundreds of dollars and made better models than GW (mostly eldar stuff).

[@lordhamster9452]

And now imagine someone like a heresy player, who had everything (up until recently) in premium resin. Or people who want to field an out of print guard regiment.

[@Erikjust]

Some of my problems with the newer kits is 1 tactical bloody rocks... Almost EVERY mini GW releases is standing on a tactical rock. Well what if i DON`T WANT to have my army attacking a grasfield, what if i wanted them to be attacking a forge world or maybe i wanted them to fight in a city, craftworld inside a tyranid bioship or a swamp planet? I now have to convert the mini to fit that. 2: The poses and them jumping of a tactical rock. You showed some marine sprues, but that´s not what they have been releasing more recently. Take a look at some of the jump marines (can´t remember what they are called) it shows them jumping of... drumroll please... a tactical rock... What was so wrong about clear flight sticks?? Also problem with the jumping off is that it is often only the thinnest of thin piece of plastic connecting the two. The breaks you have a problem. I know the jumping off looks cool on dioramas. But what most people don´t realize is often those minis where hollow and there was a f...ton of wire inside to hold it in place. As for the pose can i alter it could i have his feet and arms in different positions... no i can´t. Its the pose out of the box or go home. Those poses might look nice on the first few minis but afterwards you would want to switch them out to differentiate the units. 3: This is a problem with the heresy line a much more recent line. During that time the individual legions often looked very different from one another and even had special chest plates. In the old molds you could change the chest with another one. New ones Nope they are part of the mini meaning you guess it i have to convert again to make them fit. So while 3D printing might look different i can often actually get more creative with it, than i can with the official minis.

[@clydemarshall8095]

I like the look of primaris sculpts, I just hate the lore and I wish they’d give us Mark VII and beaky helmet options on our sprues again. I also prefer older dreadnoughts.

[@NiskRanThawll]

There is a lot of GW dick sucking in this vid. I despised the first wave of primaris. I left the hobby once they dropped and came back for 10th. I was planning on doing firstborn with the new plastic mk VI at the time... And then read the codex and the first born have essentially been killed off. So the army I've wanted since I was a kid buying my first RTB-01 box, mwnor legion in mk VI... Is a shattered dream. So I shifted to my second choice, scythes of the emperor with te new primaris stuff. However.... I've always wanted a custom 30k word bearers army and a 3d printer allows me to get those models at the scale I want without selling my first born (pun intended) so I can use the FW heads and shoulders that are never in stock. And looking for files I found some AMAZING tau sculpts, that take my era of tau and resale and re detail I modern standards (forge world xv88-2 and the likes). GW does NOT offer that option any more, almost 10 years those models have been OOP, not with my 3d printer 😁

[@Eganize]

How much did GW pay you to make this video? lol (Also, team classic models for me.)

[@talscorner3696]

"Many people" are free to like what they like and I won't give them shit for it ^^ I am also free to wish GW had kept my StarCraft separate from my Warhammer and simply upscaled Firstborns, but alas. Also, your point 3 boils down to "I like them and so do more people than one would think". Which is most fair ^^ On the other hand, for me the only armour that makes vague sense in the Primaris range as an Imperial armour is the normal Mk X. It's fitting that, if you have never bought Firstborn kits, the only Primaris I have is the one I was given for free xD Who is right? No-one and everyone, it boils down to taste.

[@supermarx]

Why not give them shit? This guy is happy to shit on you.

[@krism.6598]

The remade space marines from the ground up, turning what were once a single unit (Devastators) into multiple (one Primaris unit for plasma, one for meltas, one for rocket launchers, etc.) instead of just mixing and matching like the first born. And at the same time the marines were getting five new kits a month. Eldar players were still stuck with metal Phoenix lords, Tyranid players were stuck with mostly finecast, and at the very beginning, the Sisters of Battle were all metal. That’s the big reason people hated the Primaris marines, because it was GW’s golden boys feasting and leaving every other army in famine. Not to mention they had so many gimmicks that they were a headache to play against, especially buffed by Guilliman.

[@halolr15leaith43]

I’m a simple man I like the old and new kits. I enjoy first born and primaris equally with the one exception being primaris hover tanks they just don’t do it for me. I like my tanks with treads

[@the98themperoroftheholybri33]

1st statement. Define "better"? I find the new models bland and less charming, the old models were hand sculpted and have character, new ones are CAD files which have limbs moved in position, boring and soulless, the old models were pieces of art in a manner of speaking. Not really vary fair of you to show 3rd and 1st edition models alongside 5th edition models either, when we can show new Plague Marines alongside Primaris and Corteaz, not to mention the sprue layout for the new kits are user unfriendly especially for children (who are the new blood into the hobby, lose them and the hobby will die)

[@margaretwood152]

{🤔} ▶15:25 According to GW Insiders, it was HORUS HERESY 1.0 that _"Saved"_ GW from going "Almost Going Under" under in 2012-2013, not Primarus Marines in 2015. (* and the Best Selling GW Kit of all time is the MKVII Tactical Squad, *_not Primarus Intercessors._* "Old Good - New Bad...Splish-Splash: *_Your Opinion Is TRASH."_* Here's why (if u'd like to learn a bit more about the Hobby you've apparently just recently entered) kzbin.info/www/bejne/gp-6lGqXrNuKppo

[@kiraangle2823]

You dont need a fancy amazing resin printer, resin pribters are basically all mevhanically the same, the enry is 100 for the machine, 20 for resin, and 100 for other gear, you probably dont need it though, because you are paying sterling and just get a universal half off discount. Plenty of good files exist and are accessable, who cares about IP theft? I want 10 terminators for 20 dollars

[@Robster881]

The Primaris sculpts are great, they are well done and well detailed. I just miss the "mysterious space knights" vibes of the First Born marines. New ones are too generic Sci Fi for me. The old sculpts aren't better, I just like the older style (I don't like Mark IV either and always ran VI or VII). Part of the redesign was a "smoothing off the edges" for wider audiences, which I understand from a business persepctive, but that did mean I went Ad Mech instead of picking back up with Space Marines when I returned to the hobby after a decade or so away. Vibes were just what I wanted from 40K and what I used to have from Space Marines.

[@cybergames3436]

I got into warhammer through the dawn of war games, the old MK7 marine is the one I'm familiar with. The 2014 tactical squad was a big mistake- the rescale of that kit should have been pushed into production and eclipse the 2014 version. I lean toward oldmarines, I like the boxnaught, so I buy spare boxnaught parts. I buy the 2014 marine kit, get all the backpacks, arms and heads and buy tortuga bay toros. Is it more expensive *absolutely yes*. GW just.. erasing the original space marine design and combining multiple marks of armour into the MK10, removing the modularity of the space marines to me. I really love the new sternguard kit for its modularity.

[@kakaro9552]

Yes new models look usually better then old ones, but what really annoys me is that most models are monopose now. When I was 12 I started to play Chaos Space Marines and in my local game store there were at least 5 other guys who also played Chaos Space Marines. There was not a single Chaos Space Marine model in the whole store that looked like a duplicate. But now I bought the Start collecting Chaos Space Marine box... just like 3 of my friends did. Every army looks the same but with different paint jobs. Two of them play Black Legion and if you would mix those models together in a bag, you could not tell which Marine belongs to which player. Yes you can convert but it is way harder then back in the day and way more tedious.

[@Uppernorwood976]

I played 40k back in the 90s. I didn’t realise how much bigger all the models are now! The Avatar model is insane!

[@comicnerd1000]

I agree with 3d printed models typically looking worse and poor quality resin vs plastic. I think its funny though saying IP theft when the space marines power armor is taken from the starship troopers book. Not even going into the whole Michael Moorcock debacle. They stole the sigil of chaos from him, and a lot of characters at least in fantasy are straight rips. I like buying from gw so they know to keep producing the game I like, but they are the worst perpetrators of IP theft. GW plastic is really good quality though and doesn't shatter like 3d printed models will. I recommend buying the real deal.

[@michaelpayne8102]

I agree with most points, still love my old metal armies though. IMO 3D printing shines with IG armies, there are some great ones out there on par and better than what GW has.

[@758richy]

It's hilarious that there's even an idea that a 3D scanned and printed GW kit looks different to a genuinely kit. Usually the main issue is if people know it's printed then they will decide it doesnt look as good. Outside of that, people genuinely cant tell which of my models are printed or genuinely when identical models are literally side by side. The biggest issue I've ran into with prints is that people tend to put very little effort into painting them as well as genuine kits, which is interesting in itself to me.

[@Hugme778]

This video isnt very good tbh. Its judt the first point repeated with different arguments that boil down to "new better because of sculpt and proportions" which everybody agrees with already butt you fail to mention why people DONT like the new sculpts or primaris marines.seriously why as a chaos player im perfectly happy with my refresh of my sqyad but many loyalist players are not with theirs?

[@supermarx]

The Catachans were shit when they were released. The fact of the matter was that the 2000s, especially the early 2000s were a garbage period for GW sculpting. The last range that they released in the 90s that was all killer no filler were the human units in the dogs of war warhammer fantasy army. After that was a period of just, clumsy sculpts across the board. A lot of you youtubers take the shit from their worst period then extrapolate that to the stuff that came before being worse than that. Which isn't the case. The overall consistency now is better, some ranges are probably the best models they've ever produce (AOS, Underworlds). But it's not the case in 40k. (it varies by army and subject but there were plenty of pre 2000s ranges that are all great sculpts. i.e. the original necromunda run. The 2nd ed space marine generic metals. etc)

[@nubbetudde8922]

I will say something that seems very counter intuitive, the primaris philosophy is is a step back to the RT days. The difference between your space marine chapters is the colour nothing else... The Primaris range is also made to make the games more streamlined. To roll the dice for a Wolfguard unit where every mini has different armaments, takes forewer compared to rolling for ten hellblasters with exact the same weapons and stats. I do want to have my own unique character's in my army the no mini no rules principle is for me a problem. And a lazy approach to the legal problem for GW that it is legally ok to make and sell a miniature that covers a loadout that there are rules for but no mini.

[@marcwittkowski5146]

I understand why many people like Primaris and even prefer them and I onow that Primaris are much more popular than Firstborn nowadays. I still really dislike too many aspects of their design and will stick with Firstborn all the way.

[@CPyJIb]

- Models became less cartoony. - Grey Knights refresh when ? - PiperMakes has way better style of TAU than GW.

[@flindude2681]

The second and third edition art was amazing and I would want those as models but not the actual models of time period, compare that one chaos marine that was based off second ed art vs the actual ones from second edditon, and the plastic tranid warriors vs the art. These days, we can have miniatures very close to that art. Of course it can go up and down but the trend is upward.

[@nagashthegod]

The biggest issue with your first point is that it is true... of plastic kits. But when it comes to detail plastic is only just catching up with the old metals - look at the old Dogs of War range, Mordheim minis, and the tiny details on the Warmaster minis. And with the new minis being so monopose comparing them to the metals makes more sense than the old plastics which were so open to personalisation through conversion.

[@nicholassinnett2958]

Not to mention how plastic compares to FW resin kits. The new Avatar of Khaine is good, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't come close to the FW one to me. There's loads of intricate details on the FW one (which the official paint job in the video does a horrible job of showing), like the charcoal-like texture of the skin, that plastic could only loosely approximate, even now. Being limited to casting in a two-part steel mould will always hold GW's plastic kits back, for as long as they refuse to pay for more complex moulds (just look at the fire on the new Avatar and how flat-looking it is, it's a direct result of those casting limitations). I blamed a lot of that on the limitations of plastic tech in the past, but seeing what other companies can do with similar plastic injection moulding, I feel like part of it's a deliberate style choice.

[@reno239]

Wow what a video…shilling new models simply because you like them… See ya, wouldn’t wanna be ya.

[@CHlEFKEEF300]

I like the better quality of the mini and it has gotten better. But I do not like primaris design it is so boring imo. A true scale firstborn box is what I need!

[@nathano2329]

Came for the clickbait title and stayed for the terrible ‘truths’. You use the term ‘objectively’ a lot in your video, but I’m not quite sure you know what that word means or how to apply it, as practically all of your points were fundamentally subjective. You also provide exactly zero data or evidence to support your claims other than repeatedly saying ‘many people think X’. Who thinks this? Where are they referenced? What polling/information gathering have you done? Or are you expecting me to take what you are saying entirely on faith, to trust you just *because*? You’ve also taken some incredible liberties with the images you’ve used to support your points which, quite frankly, undermines the validity of your argument when anyone with a working internet connection and access to Google can counter your claims here. You also need to work on the manner in which you convey your messages as you come across as trying to position yourself as superior to other people in the hobby, like your opinion matters more than theirs. Personally, I do not disagree with some of the points raised here, but I believe that the way you have presented your argument is amateurish, subjective, inflammatory, aggressive, repetitive and inciting. I do feel that that may have been a big part of your strategy in order to generate views and clicks though…

[@PhobosAnomaly1]

For 3D printed proxies, there are really good sculpts but they're usually sniped by GW. People are able to do really good vehicle models and Greytide bits are exceptional. Don't understand what your on about mate, you just should like trying to defend GW, we 3D print for a reason.

[@Jakey44]

Personally as a newer player I much prefer Primaris and the newer models. Although I wish they offered the Mk7 helmets as an option in kits as I think they look better and would help appease firstborn fans. I agree with what you said about the scale issue keeping me away from buying first born kits. The issue of scale and proportions really makes me hesitant to buy older kits as they don’t fit in well with the newer and more visually appealing models!